Grounded or Elevated Radials? - Your Landslide Vote gives a positive Answer! | HAM RADIO
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- You have given your views on the question of whether radials should be elevated or on the ground. The answer was a resounding one with claimed improvements of 6dB plus. Maybe you should watch the Video/
Ham Radio Store
hamradiostore.co.uk
StepIR Giscussion about Elevated Radials
consumer.steppir.com/wp-conte... - Наука та технологія
It's nice to find someone genuinely as interested in the hobby technical aspect as opposed to the pure sales pitch. I'd certainly purchase more quickly from a vendor who shows these qualities! Thank you Peter. 73 de GI8WFA.
Many thanks for your message. 73 Peter
Thanks… I’ll be raising my DX Commander vertical and radials off the ground this fall. Looking forward to the improvement!
Thanks Peter... When the weather gets cooler, I shall certainly be doing some experimenting with raised verticals. Only two radials per band also sounds much easier to do...
Hope it works out well. 73 Peter
Wow, exactly the discussion I was after. Thanks a lot for your video, Peter!
Great info Peter! Thank you! My question is whether or not the metal support post should be insulated from ground so that the radials are tuned correctly. 73 from Oregon!
With respect to elevated radials, is it possible to get them too high? I am thinking particularly of 40 & 80 meter quarter wave vertical antenna. I live out in the country and have the potential to mount antennas quite high on utility poles and run radials in multiple directions. Thank you. I really appreciate your channel and have learned a lot from you.
Hayes
4ft or 5ft above ground gets the job done. There is no real advantage if going higher, particularly if you are in open countryside.
Visiting WWV I learned that the HF antennas use Elevated 1/4 wave verticals with nine resonant radials, which also serve to keep the antenna standing. I built an elevated 1/4 wave vertical for 20m, using an aluminum 5.2m support mast surrounded by nine 5.2m radials. I found that slight length errors of the radial lengths actually widened the bandwith so that the antenna covered the whole band, with excellent low angle radiation. Good point as well that a ground mounted vertical interacts with nearby objects.
Very interesting David. Thanks for sharing that info. 73 Peter
Your absolutely spot on indeed, Raised Antennas with Raised Radials, Always have the edge, Over Ground mounted Antennas, With Ground Radials,
It's common sense & hight is might,
Regards
Leighton 2W0EQQ. 😀
Thnxx for this video
It's my pleasure
Peter, thank you for this video, as well as all of your others... I feel as if I am sitting and llistening to a wise uncle that is very passionate about a hobby in which I am just starting. I am slowly acquiring my equipment, and am building my ham shack as I go. You videos have saved me time and money in that the videos prevented costly mistakes. Thanks again... 73 - Mike
Wow, thank you. So kind. 73 Peter
I agree 100% about the modeling software!! That is for ideal conditions only! If you live in a neighborhood like I do where the houses are 50m apart you can throw the modeling software out the window...I use a vertical for 2m ( a Diamond X300-A ) and a EFHW for HF and I found that wire length calculators are just nothing but a starting point..My 40m EFHW works best 2 feet longer on the wire length than the calculators say...I'm not an expert ( I just got into Ham back in February) but I have found through great advice from channels such as this and my Elmer's to buy good antenna grade wire and if the calculators say 66 feet order 80 feet of wire...That gives you room to strip the ends to make a good soldered connection and plenty of room to experiment..If I remember correctly the calculator I used for my EFHW said 66' 9" and my best performance is at 69' so maybe this will help some new HAM because I'm still learning and I remember what it was like being brand new and not wanting to call people 5× a day with questions...I have a great Elmer and he did me a huge favor...I kept asking for help and he would tell me what to do and I was very thankful but finally after about a month he told me to " go forth and educate myself " and it was the best advice he has given me! If your new buy the ARRL antenna book and watch people like Peter on UA-cam instead of some movie at night that is not going to help you in anyway learning radio..I try to spend at least an hour a day researching something about radio and this channel is an excellent place to go!
And soil type and ground conditions under any vertical indeed any antenna needs to be taken into account live near water yes , rock or clay yuk 😂
@@russellbradley454 i agree 100%
Law of diminishing returns research has shown after a certain number of verticals is used the difference in performance is negligible .
@russellbradley454 sorry but I'm unclear what you mean...do you mean radials?
Sorry typo meant radials of course dah
Hi, Peter. Great video! I am and have always been a believer in elevated radials, Alan KZ6B in California.
Thanks for sharing. 73 Peter
You’ve encouraged me to try one on 20m. I’ll let you know how it goes. Thanks
Please do
Your assertions and assumptions are spot on correct Peter
Glad to hear it.
I built/used coax traps in each of 6 radials so that 3 resonated for each band 40,30,20,18,15,10. Worked very well with my StepIR vertical
Just ordered me the hustler 4BTV. Decided I'm going to elevate it about 5 and a 1/2 feet off the ground. We'll probably try 6 radials With the proper radial ground plate and see how it goes. Just debating on whether to install on the edge of my yard near a tree and a Large brick church with a metal roof,Or out in the middle or the yard where it's open, But then I have to deal with mowing around it more. Thanks for the great information to help me decide on elevated.👍
I have been a radio amateur for two years, and I built a fishing rod with a 4: 1 balun, the antenna is placed at a meter and a half from the ground, with radials, not exactly at 45 degrees, but there are. I connected from northern Italy to Japan, USA, Brazil. I'm really happy. hello IU3OYH
Sounds good. 73 Peter
Thank you Peter, as usual your words of wisdom are priceless. 73 Mike
Many thanks. Take care. 73 Peter
interesting video peter. my vertical on the ground between trees and bushes and a steel woodshed only 1m away works extremely well in all directions, so not convinced lifting it off the ground or moving it into a empty field would achieve a great deal.
I first put vertical for 40m band on the ground without radials. It performs okay, but not great. Then I rise vertical 5 meters of the ground, but that was shorter version with load coil (not a full length quarter wave). What a disaster. Then mounted back vertical on the ground, this time full length with 20 radials. Performing very well. Measured 6 dB over dipole that is situated 10m of the ground (G0EVY provided me measurement results, so Croatia -> England). I am not sure whether rising back again will do something better, but will try eventually one day.
Keep us informed.
EXCELLENT POINT!
Ground mounting in an open field is fine but if you're like most of us and your back yard is surrounded by things like HOUSES, SHEDS, FENCES, telephone-power-lighting poles, trees, etc, etc, you're just not going to get the performance you will if you elevate that antenna.
For the higher bands 17-10 meters I always "try" to put it on a mast and get it above the eave of my house's roof, just the same as I do with my VHF / UHF antennas. It's a no brainer.
Thanks for the reality check brother.
73, de KF4PCT
I built a 1/4 wave for 6m antenna it has elevated radials, don't get to excited it only on the side of the shed about 8ft high to the radials, it works a dream, I've made many a contacts on 6m without all the shouting & bad manners
I can confirm the results. After recently watching this video I built a 15M monopole with 4 above ground radials, radials about 4 feet above aground . Sloping at approximately 45 degrees . Just got it up this evening during the WPX, good for testing reception and comparing with my EFHW which has performed well. For North Africa, Western Europe, and the Caribbean .. signals were about 2 S-units better than the EFHW on 15M. For very weak Asians, signals about the same for both antennas. Andy K3UK .
Hi Andy, Great to hear the results. Have fun.
I would like to have an elevated radial ground plane in the backyard but I have two golden retrievers. They spend a great deal of time digging holes. I’m convinced they were infantry in another life.
Better late then never...Good stuff Peter, Thank you
Love it! Love it! Great video and really great information to get to share with other amateurs that are interested. I’ll be doing some further experimenting myself. 👍📻⚡️ Thank you Peter! Tom - WA7FLY
Thumbs up for "one of the best ways of proving a point is to try it". Definitely, totally agree.
I have been wanting to try the idea of raised radials off of a 17 foot whip on a tripod. Should the radials be horizontal to ground or slanting down at an angle?
You can slope them down to about a foot. Better yet try it both ways and see if your signal is better.
Hello,
Love youur channel. If you have a 80m or 160m vertical and still have it on the ground...would it be advantage to angle the radical up from the ground at 45° and then travel horizontally parallel to the ground with a support at the end?
Thank you
I have not tried it but others report good results. Try it. 73 Peter
I just changed my vertical ground mount 20 meter antenna to a raised mount and raised radials. The antenna is up 9 feet and I have 8 radials with a few more to come.
So far, I have seen a huge increase in received signals and the antenna is a bit quieter than when ground mounted. Propagation? Maybe. But I do know that my SWR is lower when the antenna is raised.....1.3 as comparted to 1.7.
As far as transmitted signal goes, It is difficult to tell as propagation could be different from when I transmitted when ground mounted.
So far, I am very happy that I raised the vertical and radials. Seems to have made a difference. Thanks for the great video.
Good to hear your news. If rx signals are better, then tx should follow in the same wat.
@@watersstanton In Northern Ohio I am getting 5-9 to +20 signal reports on 20 meters after midnight to most of Europe and Asia. +20 signal report from Japan. I am hearing a whole lot more than I did when the antenna was on the ground. Increased radials from 8 to 16 and that really helped quite a bit it seems. Thanks again for the video and the information. Glad I lifted the antenna and radials. Will do that with all my other vertical antennas. I run single band resonant verticals to keep it all simple.
If I raise my hustler and add some above ground radials, would you still leave connected the ground radials I have installed
Yes that is not a problem, My okd griund radials are still connected to base of support nast.
Thanks Peter, due to one of your previous video's, I purchased a Buddistick, when I go out portable I usually work it with the magmount on the car and have no problems, sometimes though I use the tripod and Buddistick recommend raising the radial, sometimes this creates a problem as there's not always something around to connect it to so I can raise it and keep it there. How much do you think I would lose by lying it down on the ground, any idea's?
Ground mounting loses you around 6dB
@@watersstanton Yeah pretty much what I asumed really, don't want to lose 6dB when I'm already compromised, cheers Peter
I've seen some reviews of the Buddistick where they use a simple garden stake or something to prop up the counterpoise...
Howdy Peter.
We love your videos. Best channel ever.
Prior to retirement I climbed commercial wind turbines & meteorology towers. However, the older I get I find myself going ground mounted. I'm not climbing towers nor raising masts any longer.
My 43' with an amp and Beverages does wonders. If I need gain I may install phased verticle arrays.
Everything tilts from the safety of my lawn. Not dropping aerials on the house nor the vehicle.
Cheers.
Thanks for sharing
one thing to watch is icnirp clearances from "hot" elevated radial ends.
What about 11 meters, is it the same for cb
I have an MP1 Super Antenna on a tripod... about 6 feet up in the air. In this case, the radials/counterpoise wires are partially elevated and partially strung across the ground. I have seen nothing that addresses this sort of situation in terms of technical advice or best practices. Is it an elevated ground radial??... I don't think so since much of it is laying on the ground. But the 1/4 wave vertical is elevated (6 feet) and the radials do slope down.
The radials need to be clear of tge ground tp perform as elevated radials.
@@watersstanton thank you. what do you think about using a horizontal hamstick as a radial? tuned to the band. I heard that idea yesterday for the first time. seems reasonable. an MP1 vertical on a tripod with a horizontal tuned hamstick. same as a dipole only in an L shape.
my are bare copper at various lengths and buried. I would use a large copper screen but that is pricey,. This arrangement works fantastic. I have never found anything that works better. This is what the broadcast industry does, but they do use a huge screen. The ground is the return.
Hi Peter, does the same general advice apply to a BB7V apart from the raised radials ?
Dave
G6EGM
No. That antenna is different. Radials do not help.
Peter, is it possible for me to contact you personally regarding the issues I have being physically impaired?
I think we will need to raise our antennas especially as we need to comply with of comms new regulation on RFI we don’t want to end up cooking our neighbours will be accused of giving them headaches. so it is inevitable that ground-based verticals will all have to be raised. as I’m sure most of them do not comply with my normal sized gardens.
Well you will achieve around an S-point in signal in and out.
Except for driving considerations, isn't a vertical EFHW the same thing as a raised vertical quarterwave antenna with a single radial? And isn't that the same thing as a vertical dipole? Anyway, I'm hanging an EFHW 20m antenna from the highest limb in the yard (60'?), and figure it will give me that 6dB gain we all seek.
The EFHW will beat a ground mounted vertical. I suspect that there is little difference between the EFHW and a ground plane, but the GP is shoter in height and van be directly fed with coax. 73 Peter
Thank you , i agree !00 %
Hi Peter, although I do not automatically agree with every point there is nothing here that is controversial. In my small garden the buried radial solution is easier practically than some alternatives but is not necessarily ideal. A simple bit of trigonometry I am sure will highlight how much of my low angle radiation is going to "hit" surrounding houses and trees. (I will do the maths).
As for the length of elevated radials... I remember an article suggesting that there was merit in making them about 10% long so that the radials are operating one side of resonance, ie slightly inductive. From memory it was not about the polar diagram but the feed impedance. By having the resonance of the vertical section at a slight offset to the resonance of the radials the reactance at the feedpoint does not change as rapidly with excursions in the band. Badly worded I know...
Thanks for sharing. 73 Peter
Another great video. Always genuinely straight and to the point. KN6TUX 73
The literature is clear, if you can lift the radials the better. If not - no problem, you can leave them on the ground.
sounds right.
SOTA OPS use these elevated GP antennas as they are superior
Yes. 73 Peter
what about my hustle 4BTV? get it off the ground?
Yes if you can
@@watersstanton I have a 12'piece of pipe , that should work?