As a very new member of your UA-cam channel you are doing a very good job of making me want to spend a small fortune on something I’ve never done. 30+ years in aviation, I’ve flown fighter jets and helicopters in the real world. I so want to know just how realistic VR flight sim is, especially with the motion rig. I have flown the Goodwood Spitfire sim, that would take some beating. Keep up the great work…. Awesome videos.
Be careful it can become expensive. Make sure you get the ButtKicker also, lol. Also check out DCS, since you have flown military aircraft. There are a lot of retired and active military pilots flying in DCS. What fighter jets did you fly? If you don't mind me asking.
@@ComdrStew Thank you for the advice. Yes I can see how addictive and expensive this could get. I’m still at the ‘learning about it all’ stage so when I do finally ruin my savings account I make the right choice. I’ve seen DCS too. That looks amazing. The aircraft choice is incredible. I’m a fairly unique person in aviation. I’m not military. They were civilian owned ex military fast jets used on the airshow circuit. The majority of my career has been in aircraft restoration, The flying is just a bonus that goes with the job. Types flown. Hawker Hunter, Gloster Meteor, DH Vampire, Jet Provost. Many civilian light aircraft types as well as helicopters, Robinson R22 + R44. H269, Bell 206, EC120. Sadly my helicopter pilots license has now lapsed and the cost to revalidate is even more than an entire Vr sim set up. Although I do own an ex Dutch military super cub next on the restoration list so my flying days may not be totally over. We will see. How about your good self?
Not surprised you can confirm, that going from office chair to xDoF, is the same as Flat to VR; you just can't go back, without the feeling of loss. Btw: glad you had a well deserved flight over the weekend with the aero 🤗
Great video! How much setup on the software side is required to get the shown amount of functionality out of MSFS? Does it basically just work out of the box with minor tweaking or is it a major effort?
As always another great video and choice of location. . . Me and the family went for a woodland walk by Snake Pass last summer, if we go this year we'll look out for a flypast from you 😄 Great to see you're now getting the motion dialed in too 👐
Thanks so much! I'm certainly learning a lot about this new motion rig, next on the list will be MC. Look out for a black FJR, you never know ;) My best to your family.
Been following your channel for a while and you make me want to spend alot of money ;) I thoroughly enjoy your VR and hardware reviews. Your videos have helped me many many times to dial in my settings in MSFS. Its been a while now since you've been running a 4090 and now I am as well. A new complete MSFS 2020 "settings" video for your 4090, HP Reverb G2, OpenXR settings, and any other applicable settings would really be handy as a starting point to dial in my own settings. Once again, great channel and thanks so much for the info, reviews, and enjoyment.
If you want to go down a deep rabbit hole, check out the UA-cam channel Sim Racing Garage. Their reviews of the DOF Reality rigs are a bit old now and based on the previous motor type, but still very in-depth both when it comes to the experience as well as the build process.
DOF advertises that their rigs are compatible with Condor 2. Have you used it in Condor? I'm very interested in seeing if I can "feel" thermals in Condor 2 with this motion rig. That would significantly improve the simulation.
I hear ya! I’m backer 767 for a Pro. A year and a half ago I guessed a ridiculously far off delivery of around March 2023. Now I’m thinking Christmas, or fearfully never!
did you work out the motiom comp with pimax yet? i noticed today if you have a controller attached you can choose it in pitiool and the whole world rotates in sync with the controller
Didn´t have the time to watch the whole video now, so maybe you talked about it. But, how to you avoid moving "inside" the virtual cockpit when platform tilts to the sides, or forward/backward? Motion compensation, that is? Love your enthusiasm!
Talking of motion rigs, I was at Sywell a couple of days ago and heard the sad news the Blades aero team are hanging up their E300s. A great loss to the display circuit. It was always a privilege to chat to these folk, no egos, ex Reds with tons of ability. Mike Ling was ex F3 Tornado, on which I was a project manager at Warton for 2 years. Maybe a tribute flight from cgiaviator to mark the occasion?! Our Heritage Flight Sim Team has developed a superb (free) model of Sywell for XP with a Blades livery too. Much better than FS ;-)
This looks so tempting, but I am put off by the problem of 'moving outside the cockpit when you bank the aircraft'. Is there any proven way to solve this? And does the same thing occur when sim racing?
Another inspiring video, thanks Steve, how does yaw manifest itself in the H2 when you go cross controls? Does it try to simulate it? Also how long did it take from order to delivery?
Thanks for the video. I would love to see your reaction using my sit-on motorcycle sim rig with real bike controls including foot controls. Working on the motion upgrade for this year. Your welcome if ever in Coventry area to have a go and in VR. Even IOM TT!!!
So far it looks like this motion rig tilts you sideways every time you bank, which shouldn't really be happening while in a coordinated turn. Is this an issue with the rig? Or with the software that controls it?
I'm still in the early days of the setup, but it feels correct for me. Why would it not bank if you are in a bank? I dn't understand, but I am new to all of this.
You need to invert the motion, if you accelerate the chair moves backwards and you are pulled forwards(if you are strapped in), in real life this would happen when you deccelerate, the same for left and right motion. Its more obvious in racing games, but once you invert the motion it feels so much more realistic
I''d say that you should TRY to invert the motion, but it might not feel correct for you. While inverted motion is correct according to Newtonian physics, many other factors come into play when it comes to motion simulation and how our body is easily fooled. I agree that for racing sims, motion rigs should have inverted motion in the HEAVE axis, as the suspension frequencies that are around 2-5Hz seem to work well with inverted motion to simulate that initial counterforce. (reference: Niels Heusinkveld on UA-cam) And I've tried inverted heave in Sim Racing Studio myself and quite like such a setup. But I'm not convinced that the same advice goes for the other axes. I tried it in Elite Dangerous and it didn't feel right. I could sorta make it feel okay if I made the platform react very quickly and briefly and with hardly any smoothing, but overall I felt that smoother "normal" motion direction felt more intuitive. Your mileage may vary.
@@RoarMcRipHelmet , this is exactly correct. Viewing a motion sim from outside VR often looks confusing, because the motion simulator is moving in a manner so as to fool the user who is in VR, NOT necessarily replicate was happens IRL. In flying, when you accelerate, the aircraft jolts forward before your body does. A force is exerted on you by the seat that results from your body's inertia, and this is what pushes you to accelerate. You feel this push on your back. This is reproduced by pitching backwards (changes the angle of the gravity vector from acting down through the center of your head, to acting down through the front of your body, simulating the seat pushing on your back). It doesn't "look" right when you are OUTSIDE the sim, watching somebody IN the sim. The reverse happens in deceleration. The aircraft slows down immediately, and the inertia of your body lags the deceleration, and you feel this as though your were being thrown forward, into the harness, or simply pitching forward in your seat, if you aren't wearing a belt/harness.
@VR Flight Sim Guy Hey Steve, thanks for your reply. But what does this mean? Are you having issues. Is the tracking cancelled, does the provided camera override the integrated tracking of the g2 Does the concept even work ? I'm really keen to get a motion set up but this is the single factor that's stopping me. I need to know it works seamlessly
Where’s the best place to buy these platforms from if you’re in the U.K. and as they’re coming from overseas will there be import and VAT to pay on top if ordered direct from DOFreality ? Thanks for the reviews
@pumkineater23 the "traction loss" axis in the H3 doesn't have much use in a flight sim, as it pivots around a virtual set of front wheels. You'll probably need to go up to H6 to gain any significant advantage over the H2 for flight sim use, specifically due to the heave axis in the H6. Thankfully, DOF Reality does provide upgrade kits from the H2 to the H6.
Steve your egos writing cheques your body Can’t cash 😎 Great video Steve that is not a bad price for one of them rigs I can only imagine that it’s like going from a monitor to VR no going back after that Must resist using credit card 😳😳
you may want to try using fans next. I hear they really add a sense of speed and movement. some people say it is not realistic, because 'who feels breeze in a cockpit.' but then again, who flies a plane without a sense of g force, so all seems fair in flight simulation.
I may have to tear up my credit cards to prevent me from buying the DOF Reality P6 Pro which I've had a stiffie for for a long time now! I'm having a real problem with the $1000 in shipping to get it to Texas though... 😞
Hey man do u check out the yaw2 motion simulator? It's for consumer and it cost between 2000-4000 euro. The amazing thing is u Can roll up to 40 degree and pitch upt to 70 and it has rotation. Maybe u can ask them to try it out for ur Chanel that would be awesome. And I think u would love it its perfekt for flight simulations. Kind regards from Germany
Told you it was a good invetsment i bought an h3 august last year. And got it srnr to me in auckland newzealand... friggen fantastic... get a buttkicker gamer that'll finish your system offnicely
@@chuffedtwobits I ordered the H3 a few days ago, along with the extra honeycomb and hotas mounts. It's £3000 including the import duty. The wife's gonna kill me 😬😂
I just bought a rtx 4090/i5 13600 and I already think to sell my next level racing FS lite to buy this motion rig that is more affordable than their. My bank account will not appreciate 😂
Brilliant.. I know you are just days into this. Love your work but you are costing me a lot of money... that's ok.. I'm retired and can handle it. life is very short... we are here to experience it, enjoy it and help others... you're nailing all three. cheers.
As a very new member of your UA-cam channel you are doing a very good job of making me want to spend a small fortune on something I’ve never done. 30+ years in aviation, I’ve flown fighter jets and helicopters in the real world. I so want to know just how realistic VR flight sim is, especially with the motion rig. I have flown the Goodwood Spitfire sim, that would take some beating. Keep up the great work…. Awesome videos.
Paul! It's great to have your aboard, you are very welcome. :)
Well that video just made me want to join the VR sim club even more…… Great work.
Be careful it can become expensive. Make sure you get the ButtKicker also, lol. Also check out DCS, since you have flown military aircraft. There are a lot of retired and active military pilots flying in DCS. What fighter jets did you fly? If you don't mind me asking.
yes as said before, DCS
@@ComdrStew Thank you for the advice. Yes I can see how addictive and expensive this could get. I’m still at the ‘learning about it all’ stage so when I do finally ruin my savings account I make the right choice. I’ve seen DCS too. That looks amazing. The aircraft choice is incredible.
I’m a fairly unique person in aviation. I’m not military. They were civilian owned ex military fast jets used on the airshow circuit. The majority of my career has been in aircraft restoration, The flying is just a bonus that goes with the job. Types flown. Hawker Hunter, Gloster Meteor, DH Vampire, Jet Provost. Many civilian light aircraft types as well as helicopters, Robinson R22 + R44. H269, Bell 206, EC120. Sadly my helicopter pilots license has now lapsed and the cost to revalidate is even more than an entire Vr sim set up. Although I do own an ex Dutch military super cub next on the restoration list so my flying days may not be totally over. We will see. How about your good self?
You are not annoying, you are making me smile
Thanks Mike 😊
@@VRFlightSimGuy Also a little bit jealous
Not surprised you can confirm, that going from office chair to xDoF, is the same as Flat to VR; you just can't go back, without the feeling of loss.
Btw: glad you had a well deserved flight over the weekend with the aero 🤗
Thankyou :)
I’m loving your motion rig videos. Keep them coming Steve.
Cheers mate, I've really enjoyed making these vids 😊
17:07 OH WOW! There's an airliner there. LMAO Great video, Steve!
🤣🤣 Thanks mate for watching the whole video. It certainly caught me by surprise for a moment.
Amazing - a motion rig at home! just dosen’t get any better and I need one. Great content btw👍🏻
Thanks so much :)
Now THAT was a thrilling ride!! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! 😁
When are you getting one Bel? 😁
Great video! How much setup on the software side is required to get the shown amount of functionality out of MSFS? Does it basically just work out of the box with minor tweaking or is it a major effort?
As always another great video and choice of location. . . Me and the family went for a woodland walk by Snake Pass last summer, if we go this year we'll look out for a flypast from you 😄 Great to see you're now getting the motion dialed in too 👐
Thanks so much! I'm certainly learning a lot about this new motion rig, next on the list will be MC. Look out for a black FJR, you never know ;) My best to your family.
Been following your channel for a while and you make me want to spend alot of money ;) I thoroughly enjoy your VR and hardware reviews. Your videos have helped me many many times to dial in my settings in MSFS. Its been a while now since you've been running a 4090 and now I am as well. A new complete MSFS 2020 "settings" video for your 4090, HP Reverb G2, OpenXR settings, and any other applicable settings would really be handy as a starting point to dial in my own settings. Once again, great channel and thanks so much for the info, reviews, and enjoyment.
Thankyou for your kind words, much appreciated :)
Hi Steve, did you use the U-shake6 with this as well or do you find it is not necessary with a motion platform?
Made me think about people hiring VR pilots to take them on a guided flight where the pilot and the passenger rigs are linked. Future of VR Tourism.
Great video, I know you are mainly a flight guy but would like to see how the motion rig is in driving games
If you want to go down a deep rabbit hole, check out the UA-cam channel Sim Racing Garage. Their reviews of the DOF Reality rigs are a bit old now and based on the previous motor type, but still very in-depth both when it comes to the experience as well as the build process.
DOF advertises that their rigs are compatible with Condor 2. Have you used it in Condor? I'm very interested in seeing if I can "feel" thermals in Condor 2 with this motion rig. That would significantly improve the simulation.
These videos are making my wait for the Yaw 2 very tough, I'm a mid 400s backer, no telling when I'll get the thing
I hear ya! I’m backer 767 for a Pro. A year and a half ago I guessed a ridiculously far off delivery of around March 2023. Now I’m thinking Christmas, or fearfully never!
I hope you get yours soon guys.
Does it pick up the feel of a tail dragger? You'll have to bring it to bbmf to see if we can buy one
Hey Ken, great to see you here :) I'd love to see what you guys think to this!
did you work out the motiom comp with pimax yet?
i noticed today if you have a controller attached you can choose it in pitiool and the whole world rotates in sync with the controller
Didn´t have the time to watch the whole video now, so maybe you talked about it. But, how to you avoid moving "inside" the virtual cockpit when platform tilts to the sides, or forward/backward? Motion compensation, that is? Love your enthusiasm!
Brilliant mate. But see if u can add the breathing fx sounds when ur in a fighter jet. That can make it sound like ur taking oxygen in ur flight vids
Did you figure out the motion compensation issue you were having?
Talking of motion rigs, I was at Sywell a couple of days ago and heard the sad news the Blades aero team are hanging up their E300s. A great loss to the display circuit. It was always a privilege to chat to these folk, no egos, ex Reds with tons of ability.
Mike Ling was ex F3 Tornado, on which I was a project manager at Warton for 2 years.
Maybe a tribute flight from cgiaviator to mark the occasion?!
Our Heritage Flight Sim Team has developed a superb (free) model of Sywell for XP with a Blades livery too.
Much better than FS ;-)
Military jets are my favorite way to fly in MSFS2020. The F-22 and F-35 are my go-to planes lately.
This looks so tempting, but I am put off by the problem of 'moving outside the cockpit when you bank the aircraft'. Is there any proven way to solve this? And does the same thing occur when sim racing?
Hi Steve. What is the delivery time to the UK and how much import fees did you pay? Cheers
HI Phil, it took a few weeks if I remember, import fees were £150 though. ugh :(
@@VRFlightSimGuy Oh ok. Thanks for responding. Judging by your reactions the wait and fees may just be worth it. 🤔
@@PhiLikeFlying As far as I'm aware, for the experience is gives you, there isn't anything cheaper.
So cool. It must be a great feeling with your new DOF. I want to buy it too as soon i have the money. What kind of seat have you mounted?
Really thinking about getting one, maybe the H3 are DOF good to deal with? Cheers!
Another inspiring video, thanks Steve, how does yaw manifest itself in the H2 when you go cross controls? Does it try to simulate it? Also how long did it take from order to delivery?
From their website the H2 only does pitch and roll. You need the more expensive H3 for yaw as well (which you'd need if used for racing sims as well).
the cj typhoon..is it a good companion to the hawk in quality/flight realism?
Negative. JF Hawk is the best jet we have currently, in terms of fidelity.
yeah nice one. Cant wait till you try DCS Carrier Takeoff.
Coming next :)
Thanks for the video. I would love to see your reaction using my sit-on motorcycle sim rig with real bike controls including foot controls. Working on the motion upgrade for this year. Your welcome if ever in Coventry area to have a go and in VR. Even IOM TT!!!
That sounds fantastic!
are the contrails part of the default sim? i just dont remember seeing any
This is FS Traffic doing its thing
Sorry i am late, but here!! 👀👀👀
Very glad to have you buddy. Make sure you are securely fastened for this one :)
So far it looks like this motion rig tilts you sideways every time you bank, which shouldn't really be happening while in a coordinated turn. Is this an issue with the rig? Or with the software that controls it?
I'm still in the early days of the setup, but it feels correct for me. Why would it not bank if you are in a bank? I dn't understand, but I am new to all of this.
What chair do you have mounted to your motion rig?
so how did you manage to compensate for the movement, so your head doesen't get out of the cockpit?
I'm using rate mode which greatly helps.
You need to invert the motion, if you accelerate the chair moves backwards and you are pulled forwards(if you are strapped in), in real life this would happen when you deccelerate, the same for left and right motion. Its more obvious in racing games, but once you invert the motion it feels so much more realistic
I''d say that you should TRY to invert the motion, but it might not feel correct for you. While inverted motion is correct according to Newtonian physics, many other factors come into play when it comes to motion simulation and how our body is easily fooled. I agree that for racing sims, motion rigs should have inverted motion in the HEAVE axis, as the suspension frequencies that are around 2-5Hz seem to work well with inverted motion to simulate that initial counterforce. (reference: Niels Heusinkveld on UA-cam) And I've tried inverted heave in Sim Racing Studio myself and quite like such a setup. But I'm not convinced that the same advice goes for the other axes. I tried it in Elite Dangerous and it didn't feel right. I could sorta make it feel okay if I made the platform react very quickly and briefly and with hardly any smoothing, but overall I felt that smoother "normal" motion direction felt more intuitive. Your mileage may vary.
@@RoarMcRipHelmet , this is exactly correct. Viewing a motion sim from outside VR often looks confusing, because the motion simulator is moving in a manner so as to fool the user who is in VR, NOT necessarily replicate was happens IRL. In flying, when you accelerate, the aircraft jolts forward before your body does. A force is exerted on you by the seat that results from your body's inertia, and this is what pushes you to accelerate. You feel this push on your back. This is reproduced by pitching backwards (changes the angle of the gravity vector from acting down through the center of your head, to acting down through the front of your body, simulating the seat pushing on your back). It doesn't "look" right when you are OUTSIDE the sim, watching somebody IN the sim. The reverse happens in deceleration. The aircraft slows down immediately, and the inertia of your body lags the deceleration, and you feel this as though your were being thrown forward, into the harness, or simply pitching forward in your seat, if you aren't wearing a belt/harness.
Steve how does motion cancelling work with the reverb g 2?
Each VR headset I've tried so far reacts the same. Still testing though..
@VR Flight Sim Guy
Hey Steve, thanks for your reply. But what does this mean?
Are you having issues. Is the tracking cancelled, does the provided camera override the integrated tracking of the g2
Does the concept even work ?
I'm really keen to get a motion set up but this is the single factor that's stopping me. I need to know it works seamlessly
Dog-fighting would be hard on the heart and adrenal system
I would love to see a comparison between this and the Yaw2 VR with its much greater range of motion. Has anyone seen any review comparisons?
@Karl De Dobbelaere no that is not correct...
@Karl De Dobbelaere ok i live i Europe.. transportcosts to US .. much more is for me 5000-6000 €
Where’s the best place to buy these platforms from if you’re in the U.K. and as they’re coming from overseas will there be import and VAT to pay on top if ordered direct from DOFreality ? Thanks for the reviews
Hi Jon I've no idea sorry, DOF Reality sent this rig to me. Best of luck.
Is the H3 much better than the H2, or is the H2 enough for flight sims?
I've not used the H3 so I'll let someone else answer this one.
@pumkineater23 the "traction loss" axis in the H3 doesn't have much use in a flight sim, as it pivots around a virtual set of front wheels. You'll probably need to go up to H6 to gain any significant advantage over the H2 for flight sim use, specifically due to the heave axis in the H6. Thankfully, DOF Reality does provide upgrade kits from the H2 to the H6.
Steve your egos writing cheques your body Can’t cash 😎
Great video Steve that is not a bad price for one of them rigs I can only imagine that it’s like going from a monitor to VR no going back after that
Must resist using credit card 😳😳
I need to be more careful with my aerobatics now they feel more real haha.
Please the comparison between 7900xt and 4070ti or 3080.
you may want to try using fans next. I hear they really add a sense of speed and movement. some people say it is not realistic, because 'who feels breeze in a cockpit.' but then again, who flies a plane without a sense of g force, so all seems fair in flight simulation.
I have them here, I just need some time to fit and test them :)
@@VRFlightSimGuy no kidding. great news, can't wait to hear feedback
I had a fan setup and eventually stopped using it. It was loud and wasn't adding much immersion in my opinion.
Please how to record video on vr (pimax 8kx)
welp, thanks to you, I'm definitely saving up to get the H2 for sure! Or maybe H3?
It's so worth it! So have this experience in your own home is pretty special.
WOW!
Steve what was the duty paid?
£150
Have you tested this out in DCS? Do you have a video of that?
Coming soon
@@VRFlightSimGuy Looking forward to it!
WW2 divebombing looks like it would be fun
IL-2 coming soon!
Did you get to experience the Yaw 2... looks like a better motion platform, might be more pricey but you know... it's an expensive hobby :)
I may have to tear up my credit cards to prevent me from buying the DOF Reality P6 Pro which I've had a stiffie for for a long time now! I'm having a real problem with the $1000 in shipping to get it to Texas though... 😞
I have an h2 on order and it was $440 shipping to Illinois. Is the p6 that much more to ship?
@@brianconine9865 >>>> "I have an h2 on order..."
I'm jealous by the way. ;-)
They have recently made their frames more sturdy and beefier.
Affirm. I have one of the latest versions.
Hey man do u check out the yaw2 motion simulator? It's for consumer and it cost between 2000-4000 euro.
The amazing thing is u Can roll up to 40 degree and pitch upt to 70 and it has rotation.
Maybe u can ask them to try it out for ur Chanel that would be awesome.
And I think u would love it its perfekt for flight simulations.
Kind regards from Germany
I'd love to try one, keep in mind the H2 can also achieve 40 degrees roll if placed in reverse.
Did you encountered any UFO my friend ? If you did , you have to stay hush hush he he
Told you it was a good invetsment i bought an h3 august last year. And got it srnr to me in auckland newzealand... friggen fantastic... get a buttkicker gamer that'll finish your system offnicely
Is it just one connection between the H2 and usb port on the PC and what software are you using for the H2 control? Mike
Hi Mike, are you now tempted? Yes one USB and SRS software which is very easy to use.
I certainly am..H2 comes in at $1680 USD to Uk $2434 USD for the H3
@@chuffedtwobits I ordered the H3 a few days ago, along with the extra honeycomb and hotas mounts. It's £3000 including the import duty. The wife's gonna kill me 😬😂
Spent whole day yesterday assembling my DOF. Cant feel my muscles today.
Is it up and running?
@@VRFlightSimGuy Not yet, just finished main part. Installing seat today and then config, everything seems pretty straightforward
I just bought a rtx 4090/i5 13600 and I already think to sell my next level racing FS lite to buy this motion rig that is more affordable than their. My bank account will not appreciate 😂
Brilliant.. I know you are just days into this. Love your work but you are costing me a lot of money... that's ok.. I'm retired and can handle it. life is very short... we are here to experience it, enjoy it and help others... you're nailing all three. cheers.
Thanks Ian, that means a lot. Sorry I'm such a bad influence, but hey you only live once right? ;)