SHMUPs has always been a genre I enjoyed since childhood, but I never took them seriously until there was a time where boring adult life took over most of my social and free time. On top of that I had to balance free time between gaming and my art hobby, so I needed to play games that were instantly enjoyable, challenging, short, and replayable. Arcade style games and, most importantly, SHMUPs filled that role.
Hazy this was so beautiful ❤ Chapter titles added a lot of poetry, I hope people noticed :) I don’t think of scoreplay as competitive, but more like a “depth meter” measurement to understand how far you’ve gone into the player-game matrix, or how far you have yet to go. I don’t have any prestigious top scores, but I still think I wold get immense joy from someone beating them, both knowing that someone else took the plunge, and also that the satisfaction I got might get reset and bring me back. Your thoughts on the objectification of women in the mere is very interesting to me as well - I felt that reaction more strongly about games I wanted to play before I started playing shmups, but now I almost see it as a 70s style “punk rock” rejection of the norms in the mainstream of gaming - overtly offensive, “taking the piss”. If we were in the 90s/00s era I don’t know if I’d feel the same way. Just thinking aloud.. I’m going to collect my thoughts more along with what you said as well!
Thanks Spiders, always appreciate your comments! I share your sentiment about scoring, it's not about competition for me but deepening the experience. I view shmups as "us vs the game" where it's about the player base sharing strats etc instead of player vs player. Kinda like Souls games. Love the term player-game matrix! I do have to disagree about the portrayal of women. I see objectification as a norm, and leaning into "that" character art is just propping up the old values and worldviews - the opposite of punk ethos, if you don't mind me saying so. Maybe a topic to return at some point :)
@@hazylevels Not at all! As much as I enjoy my perspective, I’m hamstrung by it too:) Really appreciate you bringing it up - gives us something to think about!
I absolutely love the meditative harmony between you monologuing and the natural imagery. I developed an interest in shmups within the last year, and I'm pleasantly surprised to have discovered so much introspection about the genre's niche appeal. Similarly to you, I don't find challenging games to be a big draw, but since I've begun dabbling in Esp Ra De and Dodonpachi DOJ, I've been finding my other gaming escapes less compelling. At the risk of waxing poetic, I sometimes feel that there's an almost transcendent quality to the pace, self reflection, and intense visual feedback involved in some shmups, especially as they lean into bullet hell tropes. As an aside, I enjoyed that your shot of the honeybee was so relaxing in contrast to any digital engagement with Taisabachi.
Thank you, makes me real happy to hear that! And I'm 100% which you on the transcendental quality (or whatever you want to call it). There's a "living in the moment / finding meaning in what you do right now" feel to shmups that is kinda similar to what attracts me to the teachings of Zen Buddhism.
The western audience's perception of shmups is poisoned by the false preconception of arcade games only being difficult for the sake of "stealing coins", thus being cheap, unfair and inferior to console games. Shmups in the west aren't just niche, they're basically still undiscovered.
Yeah, the stealing coins angle is really tiresome. Kinda offtopic, but the "undiscovered" nature of shmups is one of the things that attracts me to the genre. It's like I have a huge treasure trove I can explore when I feel like it and always find something new and cool.
@@weebnerdgaming4908 Huh. Never thought about it from East/West design perspective… I think about NFL Blitz & Golden Tee essentially being rides you pay for time on, and the current abomination of modern arcades that is Raw Thrills is even more of a pay-to-ride model. Interesting!
@@SpidersSTG It's a shallow observation of mine. I've 1cc-ed many (old) Japanese shmups. I can confidently say that the popular ones tend to be 1cc-able. Meanwhile I've seen some NARC or Total Carnage gameplays. Uh, this game clearly doesn't want you to no-miss any of its stages. It wants you to die ASAP. I've also played the relatively new Halo light gun game. Unlike Razing Storm or GHOST, the game is literally impossible to not take any damage and the pacing isn't designed to have the HP refilled to prevent you from continuing. Yuck! The ones that say coin-munchers are often from the west too. It might be worth investigating if the stigma is indeed based on some truths. Fun fact: regarding Konami's The Simpsons, its Japanese version buffed the recovery items to be more potent. The implication is the western release is more stingy with HP recoveries. I wonder why...?
As a shmup fan, is that not a fair criticism? The games are designed so that you have to memorize what's coming up for the most part. And from that design you get a scenario where any new player has to spend money in order to progress. It's a pay to win structure really. Of course the shmups we're playing now aren't like that in the sense that coins are free but remnants of that design are still present and it creates a design problem that cheapens the gameplay. For most people the genre is frivolous because you can insert coins to work your way past any boss and when the M2 or City Connection says you can't its been made near impossible for no good reason.
Great video! I love the thought process in this and you bring up a lot of good points! I've always been a huge shmup fan for 30+ years and I'm almost done with development on my first bullet hell. I've always been more on the cave side of shmups and love the level of detail in the complex scoring and adding little quality of life improvements to the genre with each game. I dont think i've ever 1cc'd a shmup but just love playing them.
Enjoyed this a lot and posted it on the subreddit. I think part of the charm of replays for me is that it's reminiscent of being a little kid and watching my older brother skillfully get beyond stuff I couldn't do yet.
I can see that! Btw I appreciate that you always have a text description accompanying your clears, always enjoy reading those. And thanks for sharing the vid!
I agree with all your points. I think shmups aren't more popular because most people don't understand what makes them fun. Some genres have more immediate appeal, but with shmups you kinda have to try them and get your own "aha" moment where you realize that it's not all memorization. They're also hard to get into for beginners, not because of the difficulty but because the game will beat you down mentally if you don't build your own small goals. You have to accept the fact that you will fail a lot more often that you will succeed and in this day and age it can come across as outdated design (I love it personally). Most modern games mitigate this via progression systems, gear, matchmaking, etc. Shmups put you at the bottom of the ladder and you have to figure out how to climb. That's why, as you pointed out, the social/sharing aspect is so important and feels right. It was baked into the design of these games based on the arcade environment. If you removed online play from fighting games, very few people would play them. Right now, shmups are in this sort of weird situation. I get really bummed out when shmups don't have extensive leaderboards, replay systems or training modes.
Thanks for commenting, you put it into words perfectly! It would be strange to go for crazy hard clears all by yourself and never show your replays. This genre was always meant to be social, it's just expressed in a different way now.
I like that you're bringing this up, because I really don't like how people new to arcade games think there's some clout in clears, and if they don't upload their clears, they're bad or can't prove anything. I'm very against uploading my clears myself, I've been like this forever because I'm old and I started as a physical arcade/console player--when I played metal slug on a cab I only saw it as me beating myself, to be the best player on my cab. My opinion is that if you cheat your clear, you cheat yourself. You can lie to the world, but at the end of the day, you have to own up to yourself when you look in the mirror. Learning games is a thing we discuss among ourselves, I'm willing to upload a suboptimal score of a very new game if I think I can get some feedback on scoring, but I will never upload a clear for the sake of gaining clout. Despite putting most of my life into them, I've started distancing myself from fighting games in general because of this clout issue, and I've shifted back to stg more because it's the only genre where you can't lifestyle grift on clout, since there's no esports money to be made.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing! I'm not a competetive person so I'm not really motivated by beating someone's scores or clears. I feel like modern shmupping is more about "all of us against the game", where we're sharing replays and strats so that we can encourage each other to get better runs. Of course, there are always those who cheat or just chase after clout, but as you said, the shmup scene is so small it's kind of a fool's errand.
Excellent video! To be honest, in my polish gaming community this "credit feed" mentally is still very strong and even big (retro!) youtubers don't understand that Progear isn't a game that you can finish in 20 minutes of total play (yes, it was a statement in the middle of capcom stadium review). Besides, I really like your chill attitude, because there're many people in this community apparently who are aggressive towards non arcade stuff and it's refreshing :) For me actually the most important thing is gameplay density, because last time I've tried to play some mainstream stuff like Metro Exodus and SMT V, but both games made me tired very quickly because I felt like whole gameplay is watered down and it lacks challenge even on higher difficulties and even if story is good, it's better for me to just read a book without dull gameplay hah. Arcade games are games at its purest form, no matter if call it an art or not
Thanks for the nice comment! Yeah I try to go for a chill and not too serious vibe, because the genre has kind of an elitist reputation. Just want to make everyone feel like they can participate. And yes, gameplay density has been very influential to my video game habits as well!
I sometimes wish I could make something tangible to show my clears like a physical object that represents it or maybe a tiny screen just looping the run. I have just a couple of runs on youtube mainly just because its an achievement to me even if its well below the skill level of alot of other folks. Its funny though, almost no one I know in real life understands what its like to get a clear. I spent hundreds of hours playing Crimson Clover for instance and still haven't got the arcade clear but even just getting the arrange modes clears on that game was a huge achievement for me and when i finally did it I wanted to share in some way how big of a deal it was for me but at least for me shmups tend to be a more solitary thing. I try to connect to the community but it can be hard for me because of my own social anxiety and a bit of autism. But its still amazing to lurk and see from afar, it makes me so happy to see the genre still thriving and to get so many awesome new games. But having that social aspect is vital and I think its sort of baked into the core of my being growing up with arcades in the 90's. Thats really whats so magical about arcade games in general, they are meant to be played amongst other folks in person, and its one of the really sad things about the death of arcades. Also really great video Loved the nature shots and the vibes of this one.
Thanks for sharing, that was an interesting read. I really recommend trying to find some method of documenting clears, even if it's just a list you fill or something, makes it feel more "real". Cause as you said, it can be hard to communitate to other people what a feat is to clear even a so called easy shmup. Hope you find a way that works for you! And thanks for watching 🐝
Always enjoy your videos. I used your Kingdom Grand Prix video to get my own 1CC in it recently. As far as why Shmups aren't popular, I've always wondered that as well. I'm an older player, so I grew up with these games being very popular in arcades, but I didn't start playing in earnest until about three years ago. I've always felt that a big reason that Shmups aren't more popular is the aesthetic. Partly for what you mentioned in this video about objectification (Death Smiles is one of Cave's best games, but you can't talk about it openly because of its characters) but I also think people just don't like fighter jets and space craft. I happen to love those things, but they're very special interest. I think this rings true because Touhou seems to have huge appeal to people who I don't think would so much as glance at Raiden DX. Anyway, everyone should play ESPrade because it's peak. Thanks for your time 😂
I'm so happy to hear that about Kingdom Grand Prix! As for aesthetics, yeah, I think that all the planes and spaceships don't really help with attracting more people to the genre, at least in this day and age. Nothing wrong with the imagery per se, I just think it's a bit old-fashioned. Funny you mention Esprade btw, as that's a pretty unique shmup when it comes to visuals and theming!
Love your videos! The social aspect is what’s missing for me right now, which admittedly bums me out. I want to be involved more in the ‘shmup community’ (whatever that means) and upload more replays but I’m actually still ridiculously novice as a player despite playing for years. Best on my belt is a 1CC of novice maniac mode for Mushihimesama Futari, the rest is just regular novice 1CCs (even then, not for everything), so participating in the scoring and replay social aspects feels inaccessible/underwhelming unless I’ve already reached a higher plateau. Of course that doesn’t bar me from writing comments like this or participating on shmup forums elsewhere,’or creating video content about other aspects of the genre.
@@illusionsofgranger Don’t let it stop you! I’ve been posting very beginner/novice stuff and 1) everyone resonates because everyone remembers what it was like in the beginning, and 2) I think perspective matters as much, if not more than achievement. Hazylevels happens to be a beast, but it’s his unique eye and way of relaying his experience that makes him such a wonderful watch:)
Thanks for watching! As Spiders said in his reply, perspective is more important than achievement. There's players of all kinds of skill levels out there, and it's honestly probably more useful to create content about how to clear novice modes than how to beat Hibachi or something. Also, I don't think that being involved in the community needs to be any more complicated than writing UA-cam comments or forum post. Hope you find a way that works for you!
Shmups are still a new genre to me, though I have learned a lot about them over the past year. I have a 1-All in ZeroRanger and I am working on a 1-All in DoDonPachi, but not much else at the moment. I think shmups are fascinating and the arcade mentality was very foreign to me previously; they have re-adjusted my idea of good game design significantly. One thing that is currently a bit of a roadblock to me is memorization in shmups. I'm still a bit confused about how much memorization these games require and what is the best approach to learning these games properly. Pure memorization (like people memorizing thousands of digits of Pi) feels often very tedious and uninteresting to me, since I feel there isn't much problem-solving or decision making in it. I suppose memorizing the enemy layouts and their behaviour in a stage is required, but then trying to find a way through it or a way to chain the encounters might be more problem-solving rather than just pure memorization. Watching a superplayer's replay of DDP and trying to copy the route is probably a very bad idea, because you would constantly try to do movements that don't make much sense if you don't know the level layout very well. Maybe you could at some point talk about memorization in shmups and what is the best approach to learning scoring routes? I think some other aspects of shmup design are really fascinating, and could easily be adopted by many modern games. I'm especially fascinated by how well dynamic difficulty (Rank) works in shmups, and how it isn't exploitable by the player like in Resident Evil 4 for example. I think a very exciting mechanic that is kind of close to Rank is the World Tendency mechanic in Demon's Souls (though the current execution is, funnily enough, a bit backwards to conventional Rank, where the game becomes easier if you play well). I would change World Tendency so that both Black and White World Tendency make the game harder. Demon's Souls was originally supposed to have a permadeath mechanic upon dying in Soul Form, which would incentivize the player to be in Human Form as much as possible. This would make Stones of Ephemeral Eyes a bit like extra lives in shmups and other arcade games, which is really interesting to me. World Tendency wouldn't have to only affect enemy and boss attack patterns and composition, but also the physical level design, NPC interactions and story encounters. I think this is the potential of what modern Rank could be, while still being entirely skill-based. I would also add a hidden final sixth world with a True Final Boss to the game that is only accessible if you got all the other five worlds to Pure White or Pure Black WT. This would make WT something that casual players don't have to think about too much, but skilled players must keep in mind at all times, similar to how survival and scoring work in shmups. If these changes were made and and the RPG and progression mechanics were heavily toned down or often removed, Demon's Souls would be easily one of my favorite games of all time.
I don't think memorization is something you should do or think about actively. As you play the levels over and over again you will naturally memorize the patterns and layouts and make them part of your mental inventory. Once that happens you can start to develop a strategy that feels safe and comfortable to you. The real meat of the game comes after the memorization part; developing and consistently pulling off a strategy is where most of the difficulty and reward come from. I think the original R-Type and Gradius are great games to figure out this aspect of the genre.
Thanks for the long comment, it was an interesting read! I've wanted to play og Demon's Souls for a long time, but have been lazy about getting an used PS3 just for one game... As for memorization, you are right that copying replays is not a good idea. Replays are excellent for learning generals strats or specific tricks, but you really need to feel out the minute to minute route yourself. This could really use its own topic video, but I've found that for myself I eventually learn and settle into a route after playing a game for a while. And once I have that one route down it becomes easier to improvise without it becoming a mess. Sorry if this is hard to follow! Maybe the best I can say right now is not to think too actively about memorization. Just practice the sections that give you the most trouble and try to learn fundamentals like tap dodging, bullet streaming etc.
I think a game speedrunning is a small niche. And people often speedruns very old games like Doom 1/2 or Mario 64. But I think it's a good comparison 1cc run vs speedrunning. And this is a good explanation why STG is a niche genre.
I think rougelites are popular because part of it, it blends skill and gambling well. You can be as good as you can, but if you’re dealt with a bad roll, you’re dead, or at least at a notable disadvantage. Maybe people accept the cheapness of luck more than we thought? Also, the illusion of content variation from randomized stage designs. Run-of-the-mill shmups very rarely deal with lady luck. It’s so raw, you very rarely can blame your losses to bad luck. Some people just don’t like to have the sinking realization that they suck at the game for the moment. When you’re not in mood for one of the densest genre for self-improvement, then it can ruin your day. Rougelites still have the gambling-half to cushion that.
Very true! I do think you can fall into a semi-gambling state with shmups too, where you stubbornly try to get a "lucky clear" instead of practising more. I know I fall into that trap sometimes. And when I stop doing it, I always enjoy the process a lot more.
I'm more than fine with games being gatekeeped actually. I would gatekeep more if I could. Can't say I agree with what you said in the end there, but that's fine. Still a good video and I'm also puzzled by the popularity of speedruns but I'm also fine with shmups being so niche.
I'm not actually even sure if there's that much gatekeeping going on, I think it's more about the obscurity and the perceived image of the genre. Thanks for watching and commenting even if we don't agree on everything!
Rogue-likes aren't popular, rogue-lites are, but most of them at heart are just action games. The mechanics and difficulty are many times just a mean to cover the short length due to productions costs as many are indie. Many other genres aren't mainstream, adventure games, vns, dungeon crawlers, shmups, but they still alive and kicking in their own space. Also, becoming mainstream is probably the best thing to happen to those that profit from the community, but not the community itself. Fighiting games keep showing us how being a small-ish grassroot community is much better than being mainstream. I think it is better to keep shmups different from everything else, keep intact their core identity, even if many, and sometimes us too, end up not understanding them
You're correct about the roguelike/roguelite distinction, though I feel there is some of the allure of "getting that perfect run" in lites, too! Also, I don't think shmups can or necessarily even should go truly mainstream, but imo a lot more folks might enjoy them if they got the chance.
I think that shmups are less accessible than speedruns as a spectator sport because you don't need much ingame knowledge to appreciate a really fast clear time, while you do need to understand how the scoring system works to appreciate (or even recognize) a good score. The difference between a "normal" 1cc and a really good run isn't immediately clear to a viewer who hasn't played the game.
@@hazylevels I love that weird franchise. It had positioning and attack manipulation, speedrunner paradise, casual play friendly and a multiplayer option that is very doable in solo(heck sometimes its actually easier doing the hunts in solo than with online random team)
Dang, I think you inspired me to try posting some vids! The community has that "there's not many of us so we're thrilled you're here" vibe. Also, no one's making retirement money off shmuptube, so the DIY punk spirit is alive, especially when you have to spend time learning how mamë works just to get to some of the best games
Interesting video. As for the non-popularity of shmups, I don't think retro artstyle, male gaze artworks or even japanese specific aesthetic choices hold the genre back. All of these things seem to be pretty damn popular nowadays (and, let's face it, most shmups don't even have 2 of those). I can see a small amount of people turning away from these due to those things, but the shmup community is, for example, many times smaller than the fighting game or speedrun community, both of which feature all of those things in spades. Currently I believe it is simply that the genre needs to be understood more by accessible sources. When most media outlets name no positives for playing shmups and only call the games too short and too simplistic, there is little reason for people to have a look at the games. Looking at very recent indie productions, I think there's a market for short non-meta progression looped level content (i.e. arcade runs) bubbling up recently with stuff like Devil Daggers and Kill Knight - but even if we get more products in other artstyles of that nature, I think shmups would still be obscure in the future without more people talking about them. Thank you for talking about them ^^
Those are good points! The lack of accessible sources is definetely a major thing, though I feel like there's been some nice coverage in places like Eurogamer in recent times. But a lot more would be needed to make shmups understandable to a wider public... (Devil Daggers is so good btw!)
@@hazylevels I just have to ask, have you played ZeroRanger? I saw it popped up in one of your older videos. If you've played it I would love to hear your thoughts on it. :)
@@malkilthewizardI have and it's a very special game! Lovely attention to detail in all aspects of the game and the integration of buddhist themes is genius. I've been thinking of doing a video on it at some point, but it's kind of a daunting game to cover since there's so much to it. It's also been a while since I've played ZR and this channel has kinda morphed into a "what I've been playing/thinking about" diary for me, so... but never say never :)
@@hazylevels Glad to hear you enjoyed it, though! And yes, I agree that the attention to detail and all the little references to the genre as a whole is just fantastic., and of course the buddhist themes. Maybe you'll make a video on it after the final update is released? :) Oh and fyi, if you liked the soundtrack, the album, GREEN ARRANGE, released on Bandcamp a few days ago and is truly something special.
I think your point about objectification is more important than many realize. I live with other people and when I was working on a Mushihimesama 1cc I would always click onto another game when I was done playing so a different banner would display on steam and people wouldn't walk by and see a boobed-up child. These games are so fun to play but whenever I'm playing DDPDOJ and the intermission screens pop up between levels displaying sexualized imaged of children I feel gross and want to turn the game off. Even EXY, who at least appears more mature than the other two, is shown in such a disturbing way. Her head, which (to me at least) represents one's humanity because it's where your thoughts and feelings come from, is removed in one of the intermission screens, which invites the viewer to leer at her body without having to reckon with the fact that it belongs to a person. I think more people than one might realize (especially women) are pushed away from the genre by these aesthetic elements.
Thanks for taking the time to write all that! This stuff is so normalized it's almost never remarked upon, and I have to admit to having to gloss over a lot of things to enjoy the gameplay of many of these titles (though there are many games I will never be touching because of character art). DOJ is a sad case, because it's my favorite shmup but it also started this unfortunate trend for Cave, and the new art in the M2 port is absolutely sordid.
I think this is part of the reason Crimzon Clover did so well. All the style, depth, and quality gameplay of a CAVE shmup, none of the uncomfortably horny presentation to overlook.
I think your use of Roblox as a comparison is apt. I haven't played roblox, but anyone can see that it's highly community-centric. And, whether a game has players actively welcoming others in and garnering interest for even small objectives--like making it to a boss, or, improving in a fighting game--I think can be a huge litmus test for whether there's interest in a particular game or not.
Oh my God, I need to brush up on my English pronunciation, because I was talking about roguelikes, not Roblox 🤠 but Roblox is actually a pretty fascinating comparison point! Building community is a huge thing for genre/game longevity.
Akai Katana is cool but constant bullet canceling isn't really my thing. I've only done a couple of basic clears of Original mode, though, maybe it gets better. Ibara I haven't explored.
Hi Hazy, an interesting subject and a nice way to illustrate it. I never understood why Speed Run is so popular and Shmup is not, maybe because people want to see others play the game they like differently? I'm not sure... I also think explaining runs is very important to make the genre grow, that's what I'm trying to do on my tiny level. 🐝🪲🐟
I think familiarity with the titles is a huge factor. Everybody can understand what it means to play Mario fast, whereas stuff like Dodonpachi isn't on the radar. So you're right that explaining this stuff is very important! But I find it interesting that on a gameplay level there's a certain shared spirit between shmup runs and speedruns.
SHMUPs has always been a genre I enjoyed since childhood, but I never took them seriously until there was a time where boring adult life took over most of my social and free time. On top of that I had to balance free time between gaming and my art hobby, so I needed to play games that were instantly enjoyable, challenging, short, and replayable. Arcade style games and, most importantly, SHMUPs filled that role.
I like the beautiful nature shots. Coupled with the deep thoughts on the genre made the video quite serene. Great stuff!
Hazy this was so beautiful ❤
Chapter titles added a lot of poetry, I hope people noticed :)
I don’t think of scoreplay as competitive, but more like a “depth meter” measurement to understand how far you’ve gone into the player-game matrix, or how far you have yet to go.
I don’t have any prestigious top scores, but I still think I wold get immense joy from someone beating them, both knowing that someone else took the plunge, and also that the satisfaction I got might get reset and bring me back.
Your thoughts on the objectification of women in the mere is very interesting to me as well - I felt that reaction more strongly about games I wanted to play before I started playing shmups, but now I almost see it as a 70s style “punk rock” rejection of the norms in the mainstream of gaming - overtly offensive, “taking the piss”. If we were in the 90s/00s era I don’t know if I’d feel the same way. Just thinking aloud.. I’m going to collect my thoughts more along with what you said as well!
Thanks Spiders, always appreciate your comments! I share your sentiment about scoring, it's not about competition for me but deepening the experience. I view shmups as "us vs the game" where it's about the player base sharing strats etc instead of player vs player. Kinda like Souls games. Love the term player-game matrix!
I do have to disagree about the portrayal of women. I see objectification as a norm, and leaning into "that" character art is just propping up the old values and worldviews - the opposite of punk ethos, if you don't mind me saying so. Maybe a topic to return at some point :)
@@hazylevels Not at all! As much as I enjoy my perspective, I’m hamstrung by it too:) Really appreciate you bringing it up - gives us something to think about!
Even though i haven’t played many classic shmups, i can still relate to this, i love posting clears or short clips of shmups, and discussing them
Yeah, I think it's something baked into the genre, as solitary as it might seem. It just feels natural to share clears and other achievements.
@@hazylevels it’s also nice to see your own, or other peoples increase in skill over time, posting replays a lot is like a diary in a way
I absolutely love the meditative harmony between you monologuing and the natural imagery. I developed an interest in shmups within the last year, and I'm pleasantly surprised to have discovered so much introspection about the genre's niche appeal. Similarly to you, I don't find challenging games to be a big draw, but since I've begun dabbling in Esp Ra De and Dodonpachi DOJ, I've been finding my other gaming escapes less compelling. At the risk of waxing poetic, I sometimes feel that there's an almost transcendent quality to the pace, self reflection, and intense visual feedback involved in some shmups, especially as they lean into bullet hell tropes.
As an aside, I enjoyed that your shot of the honeybee was so relaxing in contrast to any digital engagement with Taisabachi.
Thank you, makes me real happy to hear that! And I'm 100% which you on the transcendental quality (or whatever you want to call it). There's a "living in the moment / finding meaning in what you do right now" feel to shmups that is kinda similar to what attracts me to the teachings of Zen Buddhism.
I really enjoy your videos!
The western audience's perception of shmups is poisoned by the false preconception of arcade games only being difficult for the sake of "stealing coins", thus being cheap, unfair and inferior to console games.
Shmups in the west aren't just niche, they're basically still undiscovered.
Yeah, the stealing coins angle is really tiresome. Kinda offtopic, but the "undiscovered" nature of shmups is one of the things that attracts me to the genre. It's like I have a huge treasure trove I can explore when I feel like it and always find something new and cool.
I think that’s for a good reason? Have anyone 1cc-ed NARC, for example? Western arcade games look very impossible to 1cc on the design standpoint.
@@weebnerdgaming4908 Huh. Never thought about it from East/West design perspective… I think about NFL Blitz & Golden Tee essentially being rides you pay for time on, and the current abomination of modern arcades that is Raw Thrills is even more of a pay-to-ride model. Interesting!
@@SpidersSTG It's a shallow observation of mine. I've 1cc-ed many (old) Japanese shmups. I can confidently say that the popular ones tend to be 1cc-able. Meanwhile I've seen some NARC or Total Carnage gameplays. Uh, this game clearly doesn't want you to no-miss any of its stages. It wants you to die ASAP. I've also played the relatively new Halo light gun game. Unlike Razing Storm or GHOST, the game is literally impossible to not take any damage and the pacing isn't designed to have the HP refilled to prevent you from continuing. Yuck!
The ones that say coin-munchers are often from the west too. It might be worth investigating if the stigma is indeed based on some truths. Fun fact: regarding Konami's The Simpsons, its Japanese version buffed the recovery items to be more potent. The implication is the western release is more stingy with HP recoveries. I wonder why...?
As a shmup fan, is that not a fair criticism? The games are designed so that you have to memorize what's coming up for the most part. And from that design you get a scenario where any new player has to spend money in order to progress. It's a pay to win structure really.
Of course the shmups we're playing now aren't like that in the sense that coins are free but remnants of that design are still present and it creates a design problem that cheapens the gameplay.
For most people the genre is frivolous because you can insert coins to work your way past any boss and when the M2 or City Connection says you can't its been made near impossible for no good reason.
Great video! I love the thought process in this and you bring up a lot of good points! I've always been a huge shmup fan for 30+ years and I'm almost done with development on my first bullet hell. I've always been more on the cave side of shmups and love the level of detail in the complex scoring and adding little quality of life improvements to the genre with each game. I dont think i've ever 1cc'd a shmup but just love playing them.
Glad you enjoyed the vid. It's almost comical how well made Cave shmups are, isn't it... Best of luck with your game!
Enjoyed this a lot and posted it on the subreddit. I think part of the charm of replays for me is that it's reminiscent of being a little kid and watching my older brother skillfully get beyond stuff I couldn't do yet.
I can see that! Btw I appreciate that you always have a text description accompanying your clears, always enjoy reading those. And thanks for sharing the vid!
I agree with all your points. I think shmups aren't more popular because most people don't understand what makes them fun. Some genres have more immediate appeal, but with shmups you kinda have to try them and get your own "aha" moment where you realize that it's not all memorization.
They're also hard to get into for beginners, not because of the difficulty but because the game will beat you down mentally if you don't build your own small goals. You have to accept the fact that you will fail a lot more often that you will succeed and in this day and age it can come across as outdated design (I love it personally). Most modern games mitigate this via progression systems, gear, matchmaking, etc.
Shmups put you at the bottom of the ladder and you have to figure out how to climb. That's why, as you pointed out, the social/sharing aspect is so important and feels right. It was baked into the design of these games based on the arcade environment. If you removed online play from fighting games, very few people would play them. Right now, shmups are in this sort of weird situation. I get really bummed out when shmups don't have extensive leaderboards, replay systems or training modes.
Thanks for commenting, you put it into words perfectly! It would be strange to go for crazy hard clears all by yourself and never show your replays. This genre was always meant to be social, it's just expressed in a different way now.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us. Also loved the casual Japanese, you know your audience!
ありがとう！ I'm happy that many seem to enjoy this "thinking out loud" type of topic video.
I like that you're bringing this up, because I really don't like how people new to arcade games think there's some clout in clears, and if they don't upload their clears, they're bad or can't prove anything. I'm very against uploading my clears myself, I've been like this forever because I'm old and I started as a physical arcade/console player--when I played metal slug on a cab I only saw it as me beating myself, to be the best player on my cab. My opinion is that if you cheat your clear, you cheat yourself. You can lie to the world, but at the end of the day, you have to own up to yourself when you look in the mirror.
Learning games is a thing we discuss among ourselves, I'm willing to upload a suboptimal score of a very new game if I think I can get some feedback on scoring, but I will never upload a clear for the sake of gaining clout. Despite putting most of my life into them, I've started distancing myself from fighting games in general because of this clout issue, and I've shifted back to stg more because it's the only genre where you can't lifestyle grift on clout, since there's no esports money to be made.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing! I'm not a competetive person so I'm not really motivated by beating someone's scores or clears. I feel like modern shmupping is more about "all of us against the game", where we're sharing replays and strats so that we can encourage each other to get better runs. Of course, there are always those who cheat or just chase after clout, but as you said, the shmup scene is so small it's kind of a fool's errand.
Excellent video! To be honest, in my polish gaming community this "credit feed" mentally is still very strong and even big (retro!) youtubers don't understand that Progear isn't a game that you can finish in 20 minutes of total play (yes, it was a statement in the middle of capcom stadium review). Besides, I really like your chill attitude, because there're many people in this community apparently who are aggressive towards non arcade stuff and it's refreshing :) For me actually the most important thing is gameplay density, because last time I've tried to play some mainstream stuff like Metro Exodus and SMT V, but both games made me tired very quickly because I felt like whole gameplay is watered down and it lacks challenge even on higher difficulties and even if story is good, it's better for me to just read a book without dull gameplay hah. Arcade games are games at its purest form, no matter if call it an art or not
Thanks for the nice comment! Yeah I try to go for a chill and not too serious vibe, because the genre has kind of an elitist reputation. Just want to make everyone feel like they can participate. And yes, gameplay density has been very influential to my video game habits as well!
I sometimes wish I could make something tangible to show my clears like a physical object that represents it or maybe a tiny screen just looping the run. I have just a couple of runs on youtube mainly just because its an achievement to me even if its well below the skill level of alot of other folks. Its funny though, almost no one I know in real life understands what its like to get a clear. I spent hundreds of hours playing Crimson Clover for instance and still haven't got the arcade clear but even just getting the arrange modes clears on that game was a huge achievement for me and when i finally did it I wanted to share in some way how big of a deal it was for me but at least for me shmups tend to be a more solitary thing. I try to connect to the community but it can be hard for me because of my own social anxiety and a bit of autism. But its still amazing to lurk and see from afar, it makes me so happy to see the genre still thriving and to get so many awesome new games.
But having that social aspect is vital and I think its sort of baked into the core of my being growing up with arcades in the 90's. Thats really whats so magical about arcade games in general, they are meant to be played amongst other folks in person, and its one of the really sad things about the death of arcades.
Also really great video Loved the nature shots and the vibes of this one.
Thanks for sharing, that was an interesting read. I really recommend trying to find some method of documenting clears, even if it's just a list you fill or something, makes it feel more "real". Cause as you said, it can be hard to communitate to other people what a feat is to clear even a so called easy shmup. Hope you find a way that works for you! And thanks for watching 🐝
Always enjoy your videos. I used your Kingdom Grand Prix video to get my own 1CC in it recently.
As far as why Shmups aren't popular, I've always wondered that as well. I'm an older player, so I grew up with these games being very popular in arcades, but I didn't start playing in earnest until about three years ago.
I've always felt that a big reason that Shmups aren't more popular is the aesthetic. Partly for what you mentioned in this video about objectification (Death Smiles is one of Cave's best games, but you can't talk about it openly because of its characters) but I also think people just don't like fighter jets and space craft. I happen to love those things, but they're very special interest.
I think this rings true because Touhou seems to have huge appeal to people who I don't think would so much as glance at Raiden DX.
Anyway, everyone should play ESPrade because it's peak. Thanks for your time 😂
I'm so happy to hear that about Kingdom Grand Prix! As for aesthetics, yeah, I think that all the planes and spaceships don't really help with attracting more people to the genre, at least in this day and age. Nothing wrong with the imagery per se, I just think it's a bit old-fashioned. Funny you mention Esprade btw, as that's a pretty unique shmup when it comes to visuals and theming!
@@hazylevels Yeah, I love Cave's games in general, but ESPrade is so unique. Like a licensed game for a lost 90s OVA or anime. Not much else like it.
I like the short essay!
Love your videos! The social aspect is what’s missing for me right now, which admittedly bums me out. I want to be involved more in the ‘shmup community’ (whatever that means) and upload more replays but I’m actually still ridiculously novice as a player despite playing for years. Best on my belt is a 1CC of novice maniac mode for Mushihimesama Futari, the rest is just regular novice 1CCs (even then, not for everything), so participating in the scoring and replay social aspects feels inaccessible/underwhelming unless I’ve already reached a higher plateau. Of course that doesn’t bar me from writing comments like this or participating on shmup forums elsewhere,’or creating video content about other aspects of the genre.
@@illusionsofgranger Don’t let it stop you! I’ve been posting very beginner/novice stuff and 1) everyone resonates because everyone remembers what it was like in the beginning, and 2) I think perspective matters as much, if not more than achievement. Hazylevels happens to be a beast, but it’s his unique eye and way of relaying his experience that makes him such a wonderful watch:)
Thanks for watching! As Spiders said in his reply, perspective is more important than achievement. There's players of all kinds of skill levels out there, and it's honestly probably more useful to create content about how to clear novice modes than how to beat Hibachi or something. Also, I don't think that being involved in the community needs to be any more complicated than writing UA-cam comments or forum post. Hope you find a way that works for you!
Shmups are still a new genre to me, though I have learned a lot about them over the past year. I have a 1-All in ZeroRanger and I am working on a 1-All in DoDonPachi, but not much else at the moment. I think shmups are fascinating and the arcade mentality was very foreign to me previously; they have re-adjusted my idea of good game design significantly.
One thing that is currently a bit of a roadblock to me is memorization in shmups. I'm still a bit confused about how much memorization these games require and what is the best approach to learning these games properly. Pure memorization (like people memorizing thousands of digits of Pi) feels often very tedious and uninteresting to me, since I feel there isn't much problem-solving or decision making in it. I suppose memorizing the enemy layouts and their behaviour in a stage is required, but then trying to find a way through it or a way to chain the encounters might be more problem-solving rather than just pure memorization. Watching a superplayer's replay of DDP and trying to copy the route is probably a very bad idea, because you would constantly try to do movements that don't make much sense if you don't know the level layout very well. Maybe you could at some point talk about memorization in shmups and what is the best approach to learning scoring routes?
I think some other aspects of shmup design are really fascinating, and could easily be adopted by many modern games. I'm especially fascinated by how well dynamic difficulty (Rank) works in shmups, and how it isn't exploitable by the player like in Resident Evil 4 for example.
I think a very exciting mechanic that is kind of close to Rank is the World Tendency mechanic in Demon's Souls (though the current execution is, funnily enough, a bit backwards to conventional Rank, where the game becomes easier if you play well). I would change World Tendency so that both Black and White World Tendency make the game harder. Demon's Souls was originally supposed to have a permadeath mechanic upon dying in Soul Form, which would incentivize the player to be in Human Form as much as possible. This would make Stones of Ephemeral Eyes a bit like extra lives in shmups and other arcade games, which is really interesting to me. World Tendency wouldn't have to only affect enemy and boss attack patterns and composition, but also the physical level design, NPC interactions and story encounters. I think this is the potential of what modern Rank could be, while still being entirely skill-based. I would also add a hidden final sixth world with a True Final Boss to the game that is only accessible if you got all the other five worlds to Pure White or Pure Black WT. This would make WT something that casual players don't have to think about too much, but skilled players must keep in mind at all times, similar to how survival and scoring work in shmups. If these changes were made and and the RPG and progression mechanics were heavily toned down or often removed, Demon's Souls would be easily one of my favorite games of all time.
I don't think memorization is something you should do or think about actively.
As you play the levels over and over again you will naturally memorize the patterns and layouts and make them part of your mental inventory. Once that happens you can start to develop a strategy that feels safe and comfortable to you.
The real meat of the game comes after the memorization part; developing and consistently pulling off a strategy is where most of the difficulty and reward come from.
I think the original R-Type and Gradius are great games to figure out this aspect of the genre.
Thanks for the long comment, it was an interesting read! I've wanted to play og Demon's Souls for a long time, but have been lazy about getting an used PS3 just for one game...
As for memorization, you are right that copying replays is not a good idea. Replays are excellent for learning generals strats or specific tricks, but you really need to feel out the minute to minute route yourself. This could really use its own topic video, but I've found that for myself I eventually learn and settle into a route after playing a game for a while. And once I have that one route down it becomes easier to improvise without it becoming a mess. Sorry if this is hard to follow! Maybe the best I can say right now is not to think too actively about memorization. Just practice the sections that give you the most trouble and try to learn fundamentals like tap dodging, bullet streaming etc.
@@hazylevels That sounds good, thanks for the advice!
I think a game speedrunning is a small niche. And people often speedruns very old games like Doom 1/2 or Mario 64.
But I think it's a good comparison 1cc run vs speedrunning. And this is a good explanation why STG is a niche genre.
I think rougelites are popular because part of it, it blends skill and gambling well. You can be as good as you can, but if you’re dealt with a bad roll, you’re dead, or at least at a notable disadvantage. Maybe people accept the cheapness of luck more than we thought? Also, the illusion of content variation from randomized stage designs.
Run-of-the-mill shmups very rarely deal with lady luck. It’s so raw, you very rarely can blame your losses to bad luck. Some people just don’t like to have the sinking realization that they suck at the game for the moment. When you’re not in mood for one of the densest genre for self-improvement, then it can ruin your day. Rougelites still have the gambling-half to cushion that.
Very true! I do think you can fall into a semi-gambling state with shmups too, where you stubbornly try to get a "lucky clear" instead of practising more. I know I fall into that trap sometimes. And when I stop doing it, I always enjoy the process a lot more.
I'm more than fine with games being gatekeeped actually. I would gatekeep more if I could. Can't say I agree with what you said in the end there, but that's fine. Still a good video and I'm also puzzled by the popularity of speedruns but I'm also fine with shmups being so niche.
I'm not actually even sure if there's that much gatekeeping going on, I think it's more about the obscurity and the perceived image of the genre. Thanks for watching and commenting even if we don't agree on everything!
Rogue-likes aren't popular, rogue-lites are, but most of them at heart are just action games. The mechanics and difficulty are many times just a mean to cover the short length due to productions costs as many are indie.
Many other genres aren't mainstream, adventure games, vns, dungeon crawlers, shmups, but they still alive and kicking in their own space.
Also, becoming mainstream is probably the best thing to happen to those that profit from the community, but not the community itself. Fighiting games keep showing us how being a small-ish grassroot community is much better than being mainstream.
I think it is better to keep shmups different from everything else, keep intact their core identity, even if many, and sometimes us too, end up not understanding them
You're correct about the roguelike/roguelite distinction, though I feel there is some of the allure of "getting that perfect run" in lites, too! Also, I don't think shmups can or necessarily even should go truly mainstream, but imo a lot more folks might enjoy them if they got the chance.
Great video!
I think that shmups are less accessible than speedruns as a spectator sport because you don't need much ingame knowledge to appreciate a really fast clear time, while you do need to understand how the scoring system works to appreciate (or even recognize) a good score. The difference between a "normal" 1cc and a really good run isn't immediately clear to a viewer who hasn't played the game.
That's certainly true! It also helps that many of the most popular speedrun games are huge classics or hits.
I would have to strongly disagree with any Junya Inoue shade. But I love your videos and can't wait for more in the future!
We can strongly agree to disagree :) thanks for watching, appreciate your comments!
The "King Fossil" looks right out of Darius Gaiden maybe Darius Burst. (nice 🐟 edit)
It'a the OG from Darius 1 😉
@@hazylevels damn 😅 btw overall great video Hazy!
Glad you enjoyed it!
1:38 where does Monster Hunter fall into?
Good question! My classification in this video is obviously pretty simplified, and games like MH don't really fit neatly into any one type.
@@hazylevels I love that weird franchise. It had positioning and attack manipulation, speedrunner paradise, casual play friendly and a multiplayer option that is very doable in solo(heck sometimes its actually easier doing the hunts in solo than with online random team)
Dang, I think you inspired me to try posting some vids! The community has that "there's not many of us so we're thrilled you're here" vibe.
Also, no one's making retirement money off shmuptube, so the DIY punk spirit is alive, especially when you have to spend time learning how mamë works just to get to some of the best games
Totally, there's a cool & cozy underground feel to the scene!
@@sumonedum Do it POG! I’ll be all up in them comment sections:) It’s really a great community vibe.
@@SpidersSTG 🫡
Interesting video. As for the non-popularity of shmups, I don't think retro artstyle, male gaze artworks or even japanese specific aesthetic choices hold the genre back. All of these things seem to be pretty damn popular nowadays (and, let's face it, most shmups don't even have 2 of those). I can see a small amount of people turning away from these due to those things, but the shmup community is, for example, many times smaller than the fighting game or speedrun community, both of which feature all of those things in spades.
Currently I believe it is simply that the genre needs to be understood more by accessible sources. When most media outlets name no positives for playing shmups and only call the games too short and too simplistic, there is little reason for people to have a look at the games. Looking at very recent indie productions, I think there's a market for short non-meta progression looped level content (i.e. arcade runs) bubbling up recently with stuff like Devil Daggers and Kill Knight - but even if we get more products in other artstyles of that nature, I think shmups would still be obscure in the future without more people talking about them.
Thank you for talking about them ^^
Those are good points! The lack of accessible sources is definetely a major thing, though I feel like there's been some nice coverage in places like Eurogamer in recent times. But a lot more would be needed to make shmups understandable to a wider public... (Devil Daggers is so good btw!)
Fantastic video as always. Btw, I'm trying to place your accent, but I'm not sure. If I were to say Finnish or Icelandic, am I close? :)
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! And yes, you aar klose :)
@@hazylevels Haha, now I see. :)
@@hazylevels I just have to ask, have you played ZeroRanger? I saw it popped up in one of your older videos. If you've played it I would love to hear your thoughts on it. :)
@@malkilthewizardI have and it's a very special game! Lovely attention to detail in all aspects of the game and the integration of buddhist themes is genius. I've been thinking of doing a video on it at some point, but it's kind of a daunting game to cover since there's so much to it. It's also been a while since I've played ZR and this channel has kinda morphed into a "what I've been playing/thinking about" diary for me, so... but never say never :)
@@hazylevels Glad to hear you enjoyed it, though! And yes, I agree that the attention to detail and all the little references to the genre as a whole is just fantastic., and of course the buddhist themes. Maybe you'll make a video on it after the final update is released? :) Oh and fyi, if you liked the soundtrack, the album, GREEN ARRANGE, released on Bandcamp a few days ago and is truly something special.
I think your point about objectification is more important than many realize. I live with other people and when I was working on a Mushihimesama 1cc I would always click onto another game when I was done playing so a different banner would display on steam and people wouldn't walk by and see a boobed-up child. These games are so fun to play but whenever I'm playing DDPDOJ and the intermission screens pop up between levels displaying sexualized imaged of children I feel gross and want to turn the game off. Even EXY, who at least appears more mature than the other two, is shown in such a disturbing way. Her head, which (to me at least) represents one's humanity because it's where your thoughts and feelings come from, is removed in one of the intermission screens, which invites the viewer to leer at her body without having to reckon with the fact that it belongs to a person. I think more people than one might realize (especially women) are pushed away from the genre by these aesthetic elements.
Thanks for taking the time to write all that! This stuff is so normalized it's almost never remarked upon, and I have to admit to having to gloss over a lot of things to enjoy the gameplay of many of these titles (though there are many games I will never be touching because of character art). DOJ is a sad case, because it's my favorite shmup but it also started this unfortunate trend for Cave, and the new art in the M2 port is absolutely sordid.
I think this is part of the reason Crimzon Clover did so well. All the style, depth, and quality gameplay of a CAVE shmup, none of the uncomfortably horny presentation to overlook.
I think your use of Roblox as a comparison is apt. I haven't played roblox, but anyone can see that it's highly community-centric. And, whether a game has players actively welcoming others in and garnering interest for even small objectives--like making it to a boss, or, improving in a fighting game--I think can be a huge litmus test for whether there's interest in a particular game or not.
Oh my God, I need to brush up on my English pronunciation, because I was talking about roguelikes, not Roblox 🤠 but Roblox is actually a pretty fascinating comparison point! Building community is a huge thing for genre/game longevity.
so you aren't the biggest fan of Muchi Muchi Pork! :D
Correctly observed 🐽
@@hazylevels What's your opinion on Akai Katana and Ibara?
Akai Katana is cool but constant bullet canceling isn't really my thing. I've only done a couple of basic clears of Original mode, though, maybe it gets better. Ibara I haven't explored.
@@hazylevels I would recommend you Ibara if you like Battle Garegga. Imagine a mixture between Cave & Raizing - this is Ibara :)
Hi Hazy, an interesting subject and a nice way to illustrate it. I never understood why Speed Run is so popular and Shmup is not, maybe because people want to see others play the game they like differently? I'm not sure... I also think explaining runs is very important to make the genre grow, that's what I'm trying to do on my tiny level. 🐝🪲🐟
I think familiarity with the titles is a huge factor. Everybody can understand what it means to play Mario fast, whereas stuff like Dodonpachi isn't on the radar. So you're right that explaining this stuff is very important! But I find it interesting that on a gameplay level there's a certain shared spirit between shmup runs and speedruns.