To me a software developer is like a movie actor. You never quit. As an actor, you are neither a doctor, nor engineer, nor scientist, nor murderer nor a judge etc but you know how to act like one of them. The same is for a successful software developer. You need to know(act) to know office flow work, bank account management, diagnostic laboratory tables, image handling, data tracking etc thst's what makes its fun. Otherwise, it's just coding, a driver who shuffles actors through different studios. Sorry for long script.
Never! I was told by another programmer in the Air Force back in 1996 to expect a 7 year burnout that ends your career writing code. That was 25 years ago and I’m still enjoying this career. Each day offers something different and challenging. The field is still changing - growing - improving. Can’t wait to see what the next 25 years bring!
The real risc is that all those Main Frame experts die out and we have no expertise in the field. Many critical systems still need them. I wonder how many of those are critical Defence systems. I thought of that when some on Twitter talked about how C# doesn't feel as cool anymore but guess who picks up the best salary. A Cobol Coder or a JS kid :).
This is a very important question that I'm sure most of developers will come across eventually. Today a career in software development is advertised as the best kind of job you can get by highlighting its pros like innovation, high salaries, working with the latest technologies and not even mentioning that human resources departments transformed working places into more like amusement parks as an attempt to attract candidates for their available job positions. The downside is that no one shows what the daily routine really looks like : maintenance of legacy code which is not the latest technology, hard code that was written in a hurry to keep the short deadlines. And you'll rarely see someone playing pinball during working time. Tim, I think we all tend to feel that we are not good enough but in my opinion it can also be a sum of lots of causes including management mistakes and bad decisions in favor of focusing on deadlines without a proper project analysis and evaluation. This is a great episode as usual, congratz and thanks Tim for your excellent job helping us all !
@limelight81 more about the culture than the actual work, I love to code but hate being told what to do by people who do not know how to do your job and never allowed proper time to do your job well. The results are always endless crunch times, revisions and debugging. All that while you are already given another task to complete.
the software developpement world become a nightmare with al new bullshits methodologies (agile devops etc ..) that companies did just take the name and applied it in the worst possible way (micro management no specifications, no responsabilities...)
@limelight81 agile is not a new concept, but it is used a lot with many of the other stuff just as a place where someone else may trip, whether in bad interviews, or in company dialogue... It's a broad subject, and it's a methodology, so it's easy to find something someone else doesn't know...
@limelight81 did you understand my point? I am 100% in favor of agile and agile practices applied to code. I am talking about the misuse of the agile in almost all companies ... I think you didn't faced this situation and trust me you are lucky if so.
@@majidosei2185 who gives you the requirements for your project then? Scrum master job is just running the show not giving you crap in regards to your technical abilities.
So much to say, so many thoughts and feelings, but you really helped crystallize things and I don’t feel as bad for leaving the practice of law 2 years ago for a transition job in customer service that led to my current job as a NetSuite Administrator and developer and hopefully will lead to being a C# developer professionally.
I needed this, I just bombed my first hackerrank assessment for a company since I got let go from my last job and I was thinking "maybe I need to re-evaluate my career". I have 3 years experience but during that assessment I felt so lost. I'm no master coder and I still have a lot to learn but the bottom line is, I love coding. There's no better feeling to me than working on a problem for hours, figuring it out, and seeing everything work, it's just so good.
I am glad it was helpful. It sounds like you are definitely not ready to quit. Those silly tests don't reflect reality and definitely don't evaluate your ability to do the job.
@@IAmTimCorey True, I don't have the whole language memorized thats for sure and not being able to look anything up during that exam is pretty crazy. I was feeling pretty crappy last night but it seems other devs online feel the same way about hackerrank tests.
'you need to get a real job' lmao. when i changed to being a full time computer programmer in 1982 after finishing a 4 year engineering apprenticeship, these were the words my parent used. I started learning in 1977, and 40+ years later i still love it, & they eventually admitted i had made the right decision. IMHO It's a great life if you have a certain committed mindset and willingness to never give up to make a sucess of it. much like anything else in life really. it sounds simple, but you never get what you want in life until you know what you want, and as you say Tim, being honest with yourself is everything. GL
TIL Tim and I both dropped out of electrical engineering at uni! I felt like a huge failure when I left too. I ended up getting an IT Apprenticeship a few years later and now I'm about to start my degree apprenticeship in IT Consultancy. I'm loving my job right now. Never would have found it if I hadn't quit though
I was ready to give up but thought about it for months, but with my age, it's difficult to find another line of work, I'm tired being a developer, I just want to pursue another career but I don't know what will bring food on the table! It's easy to say software is not for you, and you should quit, but what will you do to make money as much or close to being a developer? Stocker in a supermarket? Work for McDonalds?
For new graduates (which is me) starting in a big company which already has core services and you need to understand all and respond to clients via those services is very overwhelming, I know I will understand and get used to it one day. Once I be confident and know how to play around the ground, It will be more enjoyable. I have studied for years, I know basics, I enjoy the process generally but it's overwhelming to start as newbie for few months specially in big companies. But hopefully I will get there...
Sure you will. In case you get lost and there is no proper documentation of those services, just debug them for a while. I usually use draw.io to draw the process flow of services while debugging and have them incorporated in the documentation for future devs in case there is a project that lacks this.
I wanted to be a developer but gave up and now I'm a systems administrator for a university and couldn't be happier. I still might head toward the developer route. Not sure how much job security is with an administrator since everything is moving to the cloud.
The job market is getting trickier for software developers too because of remote computing. Companies are able to hire developers from anywhere in the world including countries that they can find talented developers and pay them far less. Your best bet in terms of job security are to be a very high-end developer, or to get a government clearance where you only need to compete with developers within your country which can level the playing field a bit.
@@GiantRogueWave Could be but I have a great relationship with my Customers. They much prefer someone who understands what they need and does it in their language than some guy 8 hours away with no clue of their needs. So develop your Customer Relations and you will always win. Even if you code is worse, long term is a real winner.
And who will administrate the cloud resources? ;) In my point of view you will be needed as well on that part and could count as extra knowledge that worth extra payment? :)
Very informative and motivational as usual. Tim, would you kindly do an episode on how to create a portfolio? I have three solo production applications written in C#. Several of my customers are already using them for commercial purposes. However, I am struggling with creating a portfolio that I can easily share online with prospective customers/employers. Thanks and keep up the good work.
@@PomegranateChocolate I have obfuscated the code on the desktop apps and created a licensing mechanism for both of them. However, I have not used Google ads because they are too costly.
@@vincentotieno9197 I am thinking of doing Google ads and I am wondering if it worths it. People are doing Google ads so obviously, it works for somebody.
People need to understand that programming isn't easy. Then if you get hired, learning your company's business can be even tougher. I went from being a top level structural welder for the DOD. to entry level programmer at the first company that hired me. I had never met more arrogant dicks in my whole life than a senior software developer(s). There were many days I wanted to chuck the whole thing, but I knew that this path would make life much better for me and my young family. Those were tough days, and many of them I had to choke on my pride instead of going to a mans jaw. 20 years later I look back and laugh a little, but programming didn't come naturally to me. Some of the best programmers I've known say the same thing. Quitting might be okay, but people need to know that programming isn't easy. Making web sites is one thing. Being a good app or back ground services programmer is another thing entirely and much harder.
I feel this os also a message for the developers that realy want and continue software development, if they realy love it. For me personaly, i begain in the world of software development completely Alone in 2016, working my way up. Investigating, reading tutorials. Create small apps. Let me say Tim Corey, your tutorials helped me allot recently to expand my knolege. For that i thank you very much. Trying, failing until success.. is the beautiful way of the life.
Sorry the mispelling, English os not my main language. And the inteligent writing of Google keyboard is always switching words, because of my main language being Portuguese.
Being the age of 11, I started programming - and still I'm in this business, for 40 years now. Quitting this business was often in my mind, mainly during unemployment. However, every time I get an employment and being "back to business", it still offers me satisfaction and makes fun. For sure, very often I'm ranting about code that turns your hair grey on first sight, after further studies it turns white... But after elimination that sh** and looking at that new, shiny, optimized algorithm, there is still that "yeah, thats cool"-feeling. So yes, you can be a senior-senior-senior developer and still have lots of fun coding. All my thoughts about quitting dissolve like salt in water as soon as that first new, shiny algo sits there and runs.
I loved Pc games since i was a kid and since 2020 i started to learn C# and fall in love with it.I was trying to get a job as Junior Developer or even an Internship , but i keep getting rejected.I wrote some small projects myself and uploaded them to my GitHub profile , even took part of a big project related to a game , but my chances of getting a job are still way lower than i tought they should be.I am reading c# books , watching udemy courses , writing code myself , but it still seems like a closed road for me…so i am thinking of giving up soon because i start to think that , this job isn’t right or made for me… Sometimes when you love somehing too much , you need to let go….
I did an internship for a year and at the start I really didnt know anything. For almost 1 year I struggled, hated every day, and thought about quitting every day. However about 9 months in something clicked and I started to understand. 5 years later I have gone from junior, mid, senior, tech lead, and even above that by reading tech books, watching courses, working every other night on side projects. For me refusing to give up was the best decision. But I really was close.
I'm a developer since 18 years and that thought came to my mind quite few times as you get kinda tired of coding. However, is not always a option specially if you have a family that depends on your income. Jobs as developers are usually well paid over here and there are tons of jobs to choose from. Starting something new can be challenging and not an option for me since I still enjoy coding.
There's also the other side where you don't necessarily give up because of lacking qualities... but rather because you slowly move into different roles (like architects, ...) as you gain experience and you kind of leave pure development to go into mixed roles afterwards.
i am 21 years old with bachelor degree in IT i am working in construction while looking for an entry level job and every day i am asking mySelf am i doing the right think , i know that my skills are still developping and i know that my portfolio is maybe one of the worst but i am still trying the best i can do and i really hope i can reach where i want to i just don't want to be in the same place 5-10 years from now
Tim does not want you there either, which is why he tries to give you every opportunity he can to help. More to come. Keep practicing and learning. Networking with other developers is your best bet, I believe.
I studied in actuarial science before computer science. I refused three admittance letters in electrical engineering. I have to keep a schedule for doing homework of someone else's who will receive a better job when I can't help people who are crying around me so I refused to do another diploma. We have really good books of physical sciences and electronics. My math background higher than a engineering student is enough good to only understand basic concepts to do more difficult projects. I can't work in an insurance company, I dislike them. They have reminded me these people who never made their homework part at college. What I dislike the most is to not sleep. Seriously, I am never in late on my time evaluation and I always sleep. I have a technological dream, this is not something about a social position.
Making an employment decision is hard. You are looking at thousands of dollars of lost productivity and months of ramp-up time when you hire an employee.
You are not being fair to all hiring managers by generalizing how they all will react. In a sense, you are accusing them of generalizing about you in the same way. Do your best to show them your skills and your real world business experience. Give them the complete picture.
i an just in my early 30s....due to some reason I got cataract...but for me after I got my eye surgery ..I have lot of pain n unable to work efficiently..the day when I can't work at all I'll retire ..and if no one cares for me anymore I belive ill retire from life too..
Great video Tim, I do enjoy these and hearing your responses, but this one seem more guided to "how do I get a developer job?". But still a great vid. Thanks
I have a question. I have found all the time that over 300 people apply for one position. I want to know why you did not mention the sad fact there are not jobs for everybody who is qualified for software development. Obviously in most cases if a person got a job outside of software development, they probably would not get those jobs either. Obviously, if the chances each time that out of 300 qualified people, there is one job open, that means there are 299 people that no matter what will never get a job in software development. Does not mean they have to quit the field. However, does mean they can't get paid for it.
In my specific case, I was asking for an entry-level employee who did not have to have any formal training. They just needed to know web development to a limited extent. That means the pool of people is HUGE. However, that 300 number is deceptive. 161 candidates were rejected because they were in the wrong area. So the "competition" was actually among 139 people (roughly - there were actually a few more than that). Of those, most did not have good preparation to actually get a job (poor resume, no portfolio, etc.) The actual evaluation, where we started looking at what we would call serious candidates (candidates who were prepared to be hired), we only had 20-30. So if you want to stand out in a crowd, the first step is to have a well-done (one page, focused on the employer, etc.) resume and a relevant portfolio (one that shows off your skills, especially those that directly relate to the position and employer). That will put you in the top 20 or smaller. Then it is up to how polished your skills are and how well you can communicate the value you add to an employer. That gets you into the top 3. Then it is up to you to prove it. Now, this was for an entry-level job. Anything above that might have a similar number of applications (again, with a similar distribution of rejected applications). However, those will typically not be unemployed people. They will be currently employed developers who are looking to move up the ranks. I know of developer positions that stay open for months. I know of companies that are almost constantly hiring new developers (or trying to). The key is that a lot of developer positions require you to be a certain location. There are a lot of factors as to why that is, but it is a reality. Maybe there aren't many in your area (there usually are, they just might not be advertising them where you are looking), but there are tons of developer jobs out there.
Be the Solution Provider, then you are the only Applicant if you get the Customer. There is always a demand for Solutions and if you are creative you can give yourself endless amount of work.
Been there. After my degree I worked as a lead web developer. I was never given the time needed to do a good job. Ask for 40 hours - got 20 if I were lucky...
Which is understandable, since that is cheaper and easier in the short term. Not every company wants to wait 6+ months for an employee to actually be productive, especially since they will reduce the productivity of the rest of the staff until then. And that’s if they work out.
1. It's okay to quit 2. Not getting hired is not a sign that you should give up 3. Just because you have to get another job doesn't mean you should give up
I always struggle when I read that people throw everything away and learn JS...or recommend EVERYONE to learn JS. The market is flooded with JS devs (and they are easily replaceable)...too many people expect that you get a job easily in this industry.
If you are going to try, go all the way. Otherwise, don’t even start. If you're going to try, go all the way. This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and maybe even your mind. It could mean not eating for three or four days. It could mean freezing on a park bench. It could mean jail. It could mean derision, mockery, isolation. Isolation is the gift. All the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it. And, you’ll do it, despite rejection and the worst odds. And it will be better than anything else you can imagine. If you’re going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that. You will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire. DO IT. DO IT. DO IT. All the way. You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. It’s the only good fight there is. By Charles Bukowski
That brings to my mind a few things - Unbalanced. Obsessive. Alone. Compulsive. Unhealthy. I believe the intent of the poem is to get one to stop and think. It certainly did that for me.
gr8 vid I am a computer communication engineering student and I will graduate in 6 months but I wanna focus my career on software dev (Mostly .NET - full-stack dev) will this be a problem for me to find jobs and apply to big companies later on?
Hi. Mr Corey lately i understood that "engineering is a disease of the brain". Generally people pay the price of being a talent everywhere . I admire people that only think of maximizing income result related to time spent . I'm excluding illegal activities though. After all life is short .That's it .
I think a healthy work-life balance is important, as is trying to move up the ladder financially so that you can better provide for yourself and your family. I'm not sure what that first quote means, though.
@@IAmTimCorey Hi. Thank you for your reply . I generally don't participate in such conversations. but that issue touched a sensitive chord . First i have to congratulate you for your videos . They are a treasure to watch . As for me .Well i have devoted my life in both electrical engineering ands software development .At this point i know how to design my hadware so my software runs smoother . What pins to use so my code is smaller . I have spent countless hours developing my skills .Well in both sciences .specially digital electronics and software being obsolete is around the corner. Anyway it is a conversation that can cost us a lot of time exchanging opinions . I think the most important though is to give you one more time my congratulations for your invaluable tutorials .
I was thinking I would give up being a software developer when my carpal tunnel gets so severe that I can no longer do the job. Then I’ll probably teach software development at a university until I’m ready to retire.
Something that helped me was a "Kinesis Gaming freestyle edge Keyboard" Just on monday I switched to a Cloud Nine C989M because of the "full" layout with additional NumPad and separated Arrow-Keys. Maybe that might help you too? Get well soon! I Wish you the best
@@IAmTimCorey du you have any Opinion/experience in that "ergonomics"-topic? (keyboards, track mice, standing desks and so on). Would you mind sharing a little bit about that? (just to get a different point of view) I know this might not fit the scope of your channel but might be interesting to some of your viewers.
@@DMC428 I don't have carpal tunnel but I do have arthritis. I also bought the Kinesis keyboard. It takes a little time to get used to it but it is worth the effort. I particularly like the extra clipboard keys that saves most of the chord keyboard shortcuts. The biggest difference was buying a vertical mouse. Such a huge difference. I am now using the Logitech vertical mouse. Before that, I had the Evoluent models. They're good also and I liked having three mouse buttons. I had one configured as a double-click. If the Logitech had three mouse buttons it would be perfect but it is perfectly fine as it is and if I had never had three mouse buttons I would never have missed it. 🤷♂️
@@IAmTimCorey you're right. I was thinking more of the person who has been a developer for 10 years and its bored of the job. Im 30 years old. At 28 got graduated in laws school. Decided that the profession wasnt what i was expecting, and at 29 switched to programming. Today im 30 and I work as a c# / datawarehouse developer. Got rejected in like 30 interviews, but finally made it. Great video btw!
This is a weird video. It's based on assumption that one wants to quit only because he feels not good enough. I watched this because for couple years now I don't enjoy it. Don't enjoy the studying every other week a new technology or framework, language update and such. It has been an easy job for me and the money was good and that was it. Now I feel like a slave of learning things that I use for a month and then again and again and again and it's draining me... and I am only 35. It's not because I can't get a job, that's easy. It's because I lost a drive...
That was the question that was asked that I was answering. Not enjoying what you do is definitely different from feeling like you cannot make it professionally in a career you enjoy. As for your lost drive, I have a dev question video coming out in a few weeks that will cover burnout. It sounds like that one might be more in line with how you feel.
Everyone want a junior developer that can do the work of a senior developer and must know all stacks and techs, then get paid the basic salary. This is what most companies do and advertise now, you should know this, you should know that in a fast pace environment. This corporate world is becoming too tiring!
@@IAmTimCorey Just joshing with you. LOL! Seriously, there are entire channels devoted to "What language to learn in 202x?", "How to study for technical interviews?" and "What's it like being a software developer?" They are a lot more popular than the tutorial videos.
I can relate to this question more than I wish I would
I struggled with it for years, but was able to hold out until I earned retirement options.
When TimCorey stops putting out tutorials.
Hopefully that will be a very long way in the future.
To me a software developer is like a movie actor. You never quit. As an actor, you are neither a doctor, nor engineer, nor scientist, nor murderer nor a judge etc but you know how to act like one of them. The same is for a successful software developer. You need to know(act) to know office flow work, bank account management, diagnostic laboratory tables, image handling, data tracking etc thst's what makes its fun. Otherwise, it's just coding, a driver who shuffles actors through different studios. Sorry for long script.
It helps to be a problem solver and to enjoy challenges
Never! I was told by another programmer in the Air Force back in 1996 to expect a 7 year burnout that ends your career writing code. That was 25 years ago and I’m still enjoying this career. Each day offers something different and challenging. The field is still changing - growing - improving. Can’t wait to see what the next 25 years bring!
Great!
@limelight81 True, negativity and cynicism is a product of the company, not the career.
When I started in software development I was working with a very good developer who was 70+. He was doing 3 days a week.
If you love what you do, why give it up until you have to, right?
The real risc is that all those Main Frame experts die out and we have no expertise in the field. Many critical systems still need them. I wonder how many of those are critical Defence systems. I thought of that when some on Twitter talked about how C# doesn't feel as cool anymore but guess who picks up the best salary. A Cobol Coder or a JS kid :).
@limelight81 Interesting. I think we have just seen the beginning of this. We have the same dependencies over here.
This is a very important question that I'm sure most of developers will come across eventually. Today a career in software development is advertised as the best kind of job you can get by highlighting its pros like innovation, high salaries, working with the latest technologies and not even mentioning that human resources departments transformed working places into more like amusement parks as an attempt to attract candidates for their available job positions. The downside is that no one shows what the daily routine really looks like : maintenance of legacy code which is not the latest technology, hard code that was written in a hurry to keep the short deadlines. And you'll rarely see someone playing pinball during working time.
Tim, I think we all tend to feel that we are not good enough but in my opinion it can also be a sum of lots of causes including management mistakes and bad decisions in favor of focusing on deadlines without a proper project analysis and evaluation.
This is a great episode as usual, congratz and thanks Tim for your excellent job helping us all !
You are welcome.
Can't afford to quit because sadly this is the only thing I know how to do in order to pay my bills...
That's understandable.
@limelight81 more about the culture than the actual work, I love to code but hate being told what to do by people who do not know how to do your job and never allowed proper time to do your job well. The results are always endless crunch times, revisions and debugging. All that while you are already given another task to complete.
What a great content Tim... Thanks for sharing ... I feel this is highly underrated channel on UA-cam !!!
Thank you for the kind words.
I've been programming since I was 12-13 years old, more than 30 years ago... Hope I'll be able to continue doing so until the day I die. I love it.
Excellent!
the software developpement world become a nightmare with al new bullshits methodologies (agile devops etc ..) that companies did just take the name and applied it in the worst possible way (micro management no specifications, no responsabilities...)
It can add a difficult hurdle to get over.
@limelight81 agile is not a new concept, but it is used a lot with many of the other stuff just as a place where someone else may trip, whether in bad interviews, or in company dialogue... It's a broad subject, and it's a methodology, so it's easy to find something someone else doesn't know...
You ain't never lied! Taking crap from people who can't even code ( scrum master ).
@limelight81 did you understand my point? I am 100% in favor of agile and agile practices applied to code. I am talking about the misuse of the agile in almost all companies ... I think you didn't faced this situation and trust me you are lucky if so.
@@majidosei2185 who gives you the requirements for your project then? Scrum master job is just running the show not giving you crap in regards to your technical abilities.
So much to say, so many thoughts and feelings, but you really helped crystallize things and I don’t feel as bad for leaving the practice of law 2 years ago for a transition job in customer service that led to my current job as a NetSuite Administrator and developer and hopefully will lead to being a C# developer professionally.
Thanks for your amazing, honest and personal answer, @IamTimCorey! Highly appreciated! That‘s rare today!
You are welcome.
I needed this, I just bombed my first hackerrank assessment for a company since I got let go from my last job and I was thinking "maybe I need to re-evaluate my career". I have 3 years experience but during that assessment I felt so lost. I'm no master coder and I still have a lot to learn but the bottom line is, I love coding. There's no better feeling to me than working on a problem for hours, figuring it out, and seeing everything work, it's just so good.
I am glad it was helpful. It sounds like you are definitely not ready to quit. Those silly tests don't reflect reality and definitely don't evaluate your ability to do the job.
@@IAmTimCorey True, I don't have the whole language memorized thats for sure and not being able to look anything up during that exam is pretty crazy. I was feeling pretty crappy last night but it seems other devs online feel the same way about hackerrank tests.
'you need to get a real job' lmao. when i changed to being a full time computer programmer in 1982 after finishing a 4 year engineering apprenticeship, these were the words my parent used. I started learning in 1977, and 40+ years later i still love it, & they eventually admitted i had made the right decision. IMHO It's a great life if you have a certain committed mindset and willingness to never give up to make a sucess of it. much like anything else in life really. it sounds simple, but you never get what you want in life until you know what you want, and as you say Tim, being honest with yourself is everything. GL
Thanks for sharing from your real life experience, that make it more powerful!
Thanks, Tim! Good advice as always! Someone asked about a Portfolio. Advice on organizing and building one would be great!
TIL Tim and I both dropped out of electrical engineering at uni!
I felt like a huge failure when I left too.
I ended up getting an IT Apprenticeship a few years later and now I'm about to start my degree apprenticeship in IT Consultancy.
I'm loving my job right now. Never would have found it if I hadn't quit though
Thanks for sharing.
This is awesome. I got my BS in CS and never worked in the industry after. ~5 yrs later I want in!
Great!
I was ready to give up but thought about it for months, but with my age, it's difficult to find another line of work, I'm tired being a developer, I just want to pursue another career but I don't know what will bring food on the table! It's easy to say software is not for you, and you should quit, but what will you do to make money as much or close to being a developer? Stocker in a supermarket? Work for McDonalds?
Be a software coach or tutor
For new graduates (which is me) starting in a big company which already has core services and you need to understand all and respond to clients via those services is very overwhelming, I know I will understand and get used to it one day. Once I be confident and know how to play around the ground, It will be more enjoyable. I have studied for years, I know basics, I enjoy the process generally but it's overwhelming to start as newbie for few months specially in big companies. But hopefully I will get there...
Sure you will. In case you get lost and there is no proper documentation of those services, just debug them for a while. I usually use draw.io to draw the process flow of services while debugging and have them incorporated in the documentation for future devs in case there is a project that lacks this.
Loved it.
Thanks a lot Tim,
God Bless
You are welcome.
I wanted to be a developer but gave up and now I'm a systems administrator for a university and couldn't be happier. I still might head toward the developer route. Not sure how much job security is with an administrator since everything is moving to the cloud.
Both are needed.
The job market is getting trickier for software developers too because of remote computing. Companies are able to hire developers from anywhere in the world including countries that they can find talented developers and pay them far less. Your best bet in terms of job security are to be a very high-end developer, or to get a government clearance where you only need to compete with developers within your country which can level the playing field a bit.
@@GiantRogueWave Could be but I have a great relationship with my Customers. They much prefer someone who understands what they need and does it in their language than some guy 8 hours away with no clue of their needs. So develop your Customer Relations and you will always win. Even if you code is worse, long term is a real winner.
And who will administrate the cloud resources? ;) In my point of view you will be needed as well on that part and could count as extra knowledge that worth extra payment? :)
Very informative and motivational as usual. Tim, would you kindly do an episode on how to create a portfolio? I have three solo production applications written in C#. Several of my customers are already using them for commercial purposes. However, I am struggling with creating a portfolio that I can easily share online with prospective customers/employers. Thanks and keep up the good work.
May I ask what kind of applications you are selling?
@@PomegranateChocolate Security alarm management (WPF, .NET 5), Bulk SMS Communication (WPF, .NET 5), CRM (Blazer Server, .NET 5)
@@vincentotieno9197 Have you done any google ads? Also did you do any obfuscation on your dll?
@@PomegranateChocolate I have obfuscated the code on the desktop apps and created a licensing mechanism for both of them. However, I have not used Google ads because they are too costly.
@@vincentotieno9197 I am thinking of doing Google ads and I am wondering if it worths it. People are doing Google ads so obviously, it works for somebody.
People need to understand that programming isn't easy. Then if you get hired, learning your company's business can be even tougher. I went from being a top level structural welder for the DOD. to entry level programmer at the first company that hired me. I had never met more arrogant dicks in my whole life than a senior software developer(s). There were many days I wanted to chuck the whole thing, but I knew that this path would make life much better for me and my young family. Those were tough days, and many of them I had to choke on my pride instead of going to a mans jaw. 20 years later I look back and laugh a little, but programming didn't come naturally to me. Some of the best programmers I've known say the same thing. Quitting might be okay, but people need to know that programming isn't easy. Making web sites is one thing. Being a good app or back ground services programmer is another thing entirely and much harder.
Very positive and encouraging video, definitely reminds me of my time before being hired
Thanks!
Great video. Your advice can be applied towards anything someone is working hard for.
Thanks!
Thank you for the action plans Tim
You are welcome.
I feel this os also a message for the developers that realy want and continue software development, if they realy love it.
For me personaly, i begain in the world of software development completely Alone in 2016, working my way up. Investigating, reading tutorials. Create small apps.
Let me say Tim Corey, your tutorials helped me allot recently to expand my knolege. For that i thank you very much.
Trying, failing until success.. is the beautiful way of the life.
Sorry the mispelling, English os not my main language. And the inteligent writing of Google keyboard is always switching words, because of my main language being Portuguese.
Great video. Can't agree more with your words. By the way, I like picture quality and colors a lot, really is a pleasure to watch and listen.
Thanks for the feedback on all those levels
Being the age of 11, I started programming - and still I'm in this business, for 40 years now. Quitting this business was often in my mind, mainly during unemployment. However, every time I get an employment and being "back to business", it still offers me satisfaction and makes fun. For sure, very often I'm ranting about code that turns your hair grey on first sight, after further studies it turns white... But after elimination that sh** and looking at that new, shiny, optimized algorithm, there is still that "yeah, thats cool"-feeling.
So yes, you can be a senior-senior-senior developer and still have lots of fun coding. All my thoughts about quitting dissolve like salt in water as soon as that first new, shiny algo sits there and runs.
Thanks for sharing.
Hey interesting... I was also an electrical engineer, turned full-stack developer.... I think we just enjoy creating new things!
Same. I loved EE but when I had to take some programming classes I immediately knew that this is what I wanted to do all the time.
Great video. I am sure that people from every professional field can relate to it.
Thanks!
What there is a time, I'm 65 no one told me I could give up!!!
Great video Tim
I loved Pc games since i was a kid and since 2020 i started to learn C# and fall in love with it.I was trying to get a job as Junior Developer or even an Internship , but i keep getting rejected.I wrote some small projects myself and uploaded them to my GitHub profile , even took part of a big project related to a game , but my chances of getting a job are still way lower than i tought they should be.I am reading c# books , watching udemy courses , writing code myself , but it still seems like a closed road for me…so i am thinking of giving up soon because i start to think that , this job isn’t right or made for me…
Sometimes when you love somehing too much , you need to let go….
I did an internship for a year and at the start I really didnt know anything. For almost 1 year I struggled, hated every day, and thought about quitting every day.
However about 9 months in something clicked and I started to understand. 5 years later I have gone from junior, mid, senior, tech lead, and even above that by reading tech books, watching courses, working every other night on side projects.
For me refusing to give up was the best decision. But I really was close.
@limelight81 That's true! They later told me they almost fired me but then I suddenly started to improve.
I'm a developer since 18 years and that thought came to my mind quite few times as you get kinda tired of coding. However, is not always a option specially if you have a family that depends on your income. Jobs as developers are usually well paid over here and there are tons of jobs to choose from. Starting something new can be challenging and not an option for me since I still enjoy coding.
Thanks for sharing. Folks need to hear from others that have similar situations and get encouragement.
There's also the other side where you don't necessarily give up because of lacking qualities... but rather because you slowly move into different roles (like architects, ...) as you gain experience and you kind of leave pure development to go into mixed roles afterwards.
i am 21 years old with bachelor degree in IT i am working in construction while looking for an entry level job and every day i am asking mySelf am i doing the right think , i know that my skills are still developping and i know that my portfolio is maybe one of the worst but i am still trying the best i can do and i really hope i can reach where i want to
i just don't want to be in the same place 5-10 years from now
Tim does not want you there either, which is why he tries to give you every opportunity he can to help. More to come. Keep practicing and learning. Networking with other developers is your best bet, I believe.
I studied in actuarial science before computer science. I refused three admittance letters in electrical engineering. I have to keep a schedule for doing homework of someone else's who will receive a better job when I can't help people who are crying around me so I refused to do another diploma. We have really good books of physical sciences and electronics. My math background higher than a engineering student is enough good to only understand basic concepts to do more difficult projects. I can't work in an insurance company, I dislike them. They have reminded me these people who never made their homework part at college. What I dislike the most is to not sleep. Seriously, I am never in late on my time evaluation and I always sleep. I have a technological dream, this is not something about a social position.
Sorry Joe, I am not sure what you are trying to communicate.
Yeah I have just one year of experience at programming and I just think it's very exhausting.
It can be, but it will get better as you get in the groove.
When they prise the keyboard from my cold, dead hands. I’m going down fighting.
you must have some really cool keyboard :^)
My problem is the song and dance of getting a job and endless interviews like you're applying to Google for chrisakes.
Making an employment decision is hard. You are looking at thousands of dollars of lost productivity and months of ramp-up time when you hire an employee.
Is there an age where hiring managers just think you are too old? If so what does one do about that?
You are not being fair to all hiring managers by generalizing how they all will react. In a sense, you are accusing them of generalizing about you in the same way. Do your best to show them your skills and your real world business experience. Give them the complete picture.
When I die... Being a developer is also a guarantee that you won't have a boring old age.
Actors die on the Stage, Developers die on the Keyboard :D
You are correct - it should never be boring as long as you keep growing and adapting.
lol, I'm assuming that's because you know you won't make it to old age
@@arrtv3139 Taking care of Health is a real issue but I think People are more aware now.
I only recently realized I should actually put some soft skills in my resume. I'm surprised people put too much?
Definitely. I’m not a fan of any in a resume on their own. You can demonstrate soft skills but to just say “attentive to detail” is not helpful.
i an just in my early 30s....due to some reason I got cataract...but for me after I got my eye surgery ..I have lot of pain n unable to work efficiently..the day when I can't work at all I'll retire ..and if no one cares for me anymore I belive ill retire from life too..
There is more to life than just work. I hope you find joy and meaning in life. People do care.
How to show in your website/portfolio a screenshot of a console application application that you made?
I will NEVER! But I've seen people who study it but definitely should.
Great video Tim, I do enjoy these and hearing your responses, but this one seem more guided to "how do I get a developer job?". But still a great vid. Thanks
I think not getting a job is the biggest reason why people would quit being a developer so seems on topic imho.
Hi Tim , Question . How do I switch from developer to architect?
Could you make a video about Xamarin Forms and the MVVM around that
Thanks for the suggestion.
Which program do you need to write to become a programmer
If you can write code, you are a programmer/developer already.
@@IAmTimCorey that cant find a job
I have a question. I have found all the time that over 300 people apply for one position. I want to know why you did not mention the sad fact there are not jobs for everybody who is qualified for software development. Obviously in most cases if a person got a job outside of software development, they probably would not get those jobs either. Obviously, if the chances each time that out of 300 qualified people, there is one job open, that means there are 299 people that no matter what will never get a job in software development. Does not mean they have to quit the field. However, does mean they can't get paid for it.
Do you have a reference for that 300 number?
My impression recently has been that developers are in heavy demand.
In my specific case, I was asking for an entry-level employee who did not have to have any formal training. They just needed to know web development to a limited extent. That means the pool of people is HUGE. However, that 300 number is deceptive. 161 candidates were rejected because they were in the wrong area. So the "competition" was actually among 139 people (roughly - there were actually a few more than that). Of those, most did not have good preparation to actually get a job (poor resume, no portfolio, etc.) The actual evaluation, where we started looking at what we would call serious candidates (candidates who were prepared to be hired), we only had 20-30. So if you want to stand out in a crowd, the first step is to have a well-done (one page, focused on the employer, etc.) resume and a relevant portfolio (one that shows off your skills, especially those that directly relate to the position and employer). That will put you in the top 20 or smaller. Then it is up to how polished your skills are and how well you can communicate the value you add to an employer. That gets you into the top 3. Then it is up to you to prove it.
Now, this was for an entry-level job. Anything above that might have a similar number of applications (again, with a similar distribution of rejected applications). However, those will typically not be unemployed people. They will be currently employed developers who are looking to move up the ranks.
I know of developer positions that stay open for months. I know of companies that are almost constantly hiring new developers (or trying to). The key is that a lot of developer positions require you to be a certain location. There are a lot of factors as to why that is, but it is a reality. Maybe there aren't many in your area (there usually are, they just might not be advertising them where you are looking), but there are tons of developer jobs out there.
Be the Solution Provider, then you are the only Applicant if you get the Customer. There is always a demand for Solutions and if you are creative you can give yourself endless amount of work.
Even if we have bad days sometimes, I still love my job as a Software Developer.
I am glad.
Been there. After my degree I worked as a lead web developer. I was never given the time needed to do a good job. Ask for 40 hours - got 20 if I were lucky...
When is time to be a real tech lead?
A Millionaire Tech Lead no less ;)
Part of the problem is companies would rather pile more work onto the senior developers than hire junior developers.
Which is understandable, since that is cheaper and easier in the short term. Not every company wants to wait 6+ months for an employee to actually be productive, especially since they will reduce the productivity of the rest of the staff until then. And that’s if they work out.
Been putting off even watching this, but here goes
I hope it is encouraging.
@@IAmTimCorey It was encouraging and helped cement a realization I had come to earlier in the year. Not the doom and gloom I was anticipating.
YES!!! Getting a job as a developer is a random, unpredictable event.
Yes, it can be although there are things you can do to improve the odds.
1. It's okay to quit
2. Not getting hired is not a sign that you should give up
3. Just because you have to get another job doesn't mean you should give up
Yep
Was this an introspective Tim?
Nope. Just empathetic towards the plight of others (friends included).
ty!
You are welcome.
I always struggle when I read that people throw everything away and learn JS...or recommend EVERYONE to learn JS. The market is flooded with JS devs (and they are easily replaceable)...too many people expect that you get a job easily in this industry.
@limelight81 very true
If you are going to try, go all the way.
Otherwise, don’t even start.
If you're going to try, go all the way.
This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and maybe even your mind.
It could mean not eating for three or four days.
It could mean freezing on a park bench.
It could mean jail.
It could mean derision, mockery, isolation.
Isolation is the gift.
All the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it.
And, you’ll do it, despite rejection and the worst odds.
And it will be better than anything else you can imagine.
If you’re going to try, go all the way.
There is no other feeling like that.
You will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire.
DO IT. DO IT. DO IT. All the way.
You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. It’s the only good fight there is.
By Charles Bukowski
That brings to my mind a few things - Unbalanced. Obsessive. Alone. Compulsive. Unhealthy. I believe the intent of the poem is to get one to stop and think. It certainly did that for me.
gr8 vid I am a computer communication engineering student and I will graduate in 6 months but I wanna focus my career on software dev (Mostly .NET - full-stack dev) will this be a problem for me to find jobs and apply to big companies later on?
What about age and brain declining in some areas?
Angular programming broke me. All those sharp angles hurt.
I certainly see your point.
Hi. Mr Corey lately i understood that "engineering is a disease of the brain". Generally people pay the price of being a talent everywhere . I admire people that only think of maximizing income result related to time spent . I'm excluding illegal activities though. After all life is short .That's it .
I think a healthy work-life balance is important, as is trying to move up the ladder financially so that you can better provide for yourself and your family. I'm not sure what that first quote means, though.
@@IAmTimCorey Hi. Thank you for your reply . I generally don't participate in such conversations. but that issue touched a sensitive chord .
First i have to congratulate you for your videos . They are a treasure to watch . As for me .Well i have devoted my life in both electrical engineering ands software development .At this point i know how to design my hadware so my software runs smoother . What pins to use so my code is smaller . I have spent countless hours developing my skills .Well in both sciences .specially digital electronics and software being obsolete is around the corner. Anyway it is a conversation that can cost us a lot of time exchanging opinions . I think the most important though is to give you one more time my congratulations for your invaluable tutorials .
I was thinking I would give up being a software developer when my carpal tunnel gets so severe that I can no longer do the job. Then I’ll probably teach software development at a university until I’m ready to retire.
Something that helped me was a "Kinesis Gaming freestyle edge Keyboard" Just on monday I switched to a Cloud Nine C989M because of the "full" layout with additional NumPad and separated Arrow-Keys.
Maybe that might help you too?
Get well soon! I Wish you the best
@@DMC428 Thank you! I don’t have that type but I do use an ergo keyboard and mouse that significantly helps!
Hopefully that is a long way off.
@@IAmTimCorey du you have any Opinion/experience in that "ergonomics"-topic? (keyboards, track mice, standing desks and so on). Would you mind sharing a little bit about that? (just to get a different point of view)
I know this might not fit the scope of your channel but might be interesting to some of your viewers.
@@DMC428 I don't have carpal tunnel but I do have arthritis. I also bought the Kinesis keyboard. It takes a little time to get used to it but it is worth the effort. I particularly like the extra clipboard keys that saves most of the chord keyboard shortcuts.
The biggest difference was buying a vertical mouse. Such a huge difference. I am now using the Logitech vertical mouse. Before that, I had the Evoluent models. They're good also and I liked having three mouse buttons. I had one configured as a double-click. If the Logitech had three mouse buttons it would be perfect but it is perfectly fine as it is and if I had never had three mouse buttons I would never have missed it. 🤷♂️
Yes
you can switch roles so you dont get bored
If you already have a role and if you are capable of switching roles. Some people have neither.
@@IAmTimCorey you're right. I was thinking more of the person who has been a developer for 10 years and its bored of the job.
Im 30 years old. At 28 got graduated in laws school. Decided that the profession wasnt what i was expecting, and at 29 switched to programming.
Today im 30 and I work as a c# / datawarehouse developer. Got rejected in like 30 interviews, but finally made it.
Great video btw!
Excellent! Thanks for sharing.
This is a weird video. It's based on assumption that one wants to quit only because he feels not good enough. I watched this because for couple years now I don't enjoy it. Don't enjoy the studying every other week a new technology or framework, language update and such. It has been an easy job for me and the money was good and that was it. Now I feel like a slave of learning things that I use for a month and then again and again and again and it's draining me... and I am only 35. It's not because I can't get a job, that's easy. It's because I lost a drive...
That was the question that was asked that I was answering. Not enjoying what you do is definitely different from feeling like you cannot make it professionally in a career you enjoy. As for your lost drive, I have a dev question video coming out in a few weeks that will cover burnout. It sounds like that one might be more in line with how you feel.
@@IAmTimCorey oh yeah, that makes sense. It was just the title that made me expect rather a list of different reasons to quit the dev world. Thanks
Shit, I need to get a dev job before I can quit it. Everyone wants a bachelor's as if that is the only thing that matters.
Everyone want a junior developer that can do the work of a senior developer and must know all stacks and techs, then get paid the basic salary. This is what most companies do and advertise now, you should know this, you should know that in a fast pace environment. This corporate world is becoming too tiring!
"1000 help tickets fixed in 3 days" I would hire that person! I am lucky if I get 1-2 bugs closed off in a day 🙃.
I heard "30 days", actually :)
White board coding challenges make me feel stupid and very demotivated
When they put me in the Box, that is when :).
Hopefully that's a long time away.
When you can cash out.
3 and a half years not being hired! I gave up the last 3 Months and right after that I found a Job 😂
Is this true? Were you on a career break and was not actively looking at that time? How did you survive financially for 3 years? Or is this a joke?
Well, I am glad you finally got a job. That must have been a rough time.
My problem is not not getting hired. It's being sick and tired of BS ludicrously over-complicated frameworks.
That is a reasonable perspective. Many folks choose their framework and can get a bit fanatical about it.
Hang on, I watched to find out how to quit, not how to get hired 😉
To quit, just tell your boss how you really feel. 😆
Nobody likes a quitter. Never quit smoking.
Quitting is the secret of success. Commitment causes failure. Chapter 6 of loser handbook
interesting and odd mix of random thoughts.
When I retire.
It's time to give up after your first stroke from lack of activity.
That would be scary. It is always good to remember to take care of your body, not just your bank account.
When you start putting out career videos instead of software development videos to get more eyeballs.
LMAO!
Touché
lol, I don't chase the eyeballs, I chase what developers (specifically C# developers) need to know. No worries there.
@@IAmTimCorey Just joshing with you. LOL! Seriously, there are entire channels devoted to "What language to learn in 202x?", "How to study for technical interviews?" and "What's it like being a software developer?" They are a lot more popular than the tutorial videos.
@@IAmTimCorey You are a full stack UA-camr, all aspects are covered :). That is why you are the best.
When no companies want to hire you.
That’s pretty subjective since there are always companies that want your skills, you just need to find them and they need to find you.
@@IAmTimCorey Okay, I'll keep trying.
☹
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