I worked in china for 30 years in furniture manufacturing. There is no traceability of wood in china. Chinese versions of timber can be very different to ours eg Chinese oak vs us oak. What you need to know also is that there are 30 different types of Mahogany worldwide all with different density etc. So saying mahogany or any other timber is pretty useless anyway even if Fender say it
The wood branding is mostly marketing in guitar building using terms that often include a wide variety of different timber. The quality of the wood is far far more important than the actual species anyway.
Each country has its own quality of wood and also quality of metal it produces..in my experience with guitars , Korea has the best of both as far as imports go . By far.
I've owned a guitar repair & custom shop for almost 40 years. As for major USA brands that don't give the customer what they say they're giving them, I've had personal experience with an inadvertent revelation to me of what you're talking about by one of the biggest names in the business. I was at a sub-contractor's finishing facility overseeing a project for another independent mfr when I came across multi (at least four)-piece guitar bodies that were laminated front & back with either one-piece or book matched veneers and then sunbursted so you couldn't tell. I've also seen guitars made in China for major brands get noticeably better, while non-brands and outright counterfeits LOOK better, but are often way off. Example: a customer brought in a LP Custom-style guitar that he knew was fake, because he wanted us to install a Floyd trem and didn't want to do that to a real Gibson. Leaving aside the fact that many actual Gibsons we've seen over time have been disastrously flawed, this guitar LOOKED absolutely stunning in an eggshell white with gold hardware. Upon opening it up we found the cavities had been cut with - I shit you not - a chisel, and the bridge was 1/4" off from where it should have been! On the other hand, some newer-brand deluxe upmarket Chinese imports have impressed with the quality of execution and attention to detail. PS even though I've been in & around this business a lot longer than you, as a new viewer I'm seriously impressed with what you do/have done. Keep it up!
thank you for your honesty as going into a geetar shop these days and pulling fenders or gibsons off the rack and trying to find the right one is not what it was like before............... A LOT of them really don't feel or play very good and frankly they give me the impression of "cheap". I do have a VOS plaintop that is stunning and a custom strat from 91 that i love ( so I'm spoiled) , but I also have a tokai loverock LS 100 & a breezysound from about 80/81 and those knock offs so good they make my others mentioned feel cheep as well ...lol. Anyways if you have some overseas models worth checking out, we're all ears.
I have quite a few luthier friends so a little insight into your world. I agree, the build quality of major brands is sometimes not very good. As you say bridges off position, poorly fitted nuts etc. I have never come across one of these being a Martin. Some of the Korean and Japanese guitars are outstanding build quality. Typically, Japanese Fenders are hard to beat for this. Chinese guitars are getting better and can be outstanding if the customer will pay for it.
@@bazjones5282 Agreed re: more expensive Chinese, and most Korean & Japanese going way back. I own a 25yr old Korean ES-150 style jazz guitar and it is every bit the equal of a Gibson of similar design.
i've got 14 guitars, given away one, and abandoned another. the one i use for solos is a chibinez my brother bought for me. taken it for work 3 times in 8 odd years. first time he really gave it a work over to make great. other times were for the D string bridge needed shimmying and replacement of fine tuners.
This is exactly the kind of video I want to see. You provided extremely Valuable information to people like me who don’t have the ability to measure, test and inspect multiple brands. Your knowledge base is invaluable to tons of viewers who can’t possibly know that information. Thank you for sharing your data and your opinion in your videos.
Regardless of country of origin, when you get stuff that is badly off spec it’s because you’re not dealing with a musical instrument company, just someone who is shipping a commodity to make money today. They’ll do it while they’re making money but 3 years from now that factory will be producing flat pack furniture or whatever is more profitable at the time. There’s people who hate brands like Gibson, but for all of their faults, you’re at least buying from someone who is interested in music and making musical instruments
But with gibson/epiphone you're paying the history tax because of their overinflated ego. They can't even make you a flawless instrument for $20k so I wouldn't run the risk with one of their "cheap" $5k models. The best guitars I've felt so far are from Japan. You can spend $1k-$2k and get a guitar that blows any gibson/epiphone ever made out of the water, and it'll show up in tune, set up, with perfect intonation. And stay that way. Gibson is too interested in making guitars for doctors, lawyers, and dentists these days to say they're in it for musicians or making instruments. They're art pieces for collectors at best with a few bands still around playing them. A shame too cause they used to be my dream guitar
@@SlyRyFry you’re arguing with a point that I didn’t make 🙄 I didn’t say that Gibson made perfect guitars just that they were an example of an actual musical instrument company compared to these Chinese companies that manufacture commodities that currently happen to be guitar shaped.
@@MattSwain1 Not trying to argue anything, just pointing out the facts so newer musicians don't fixate on overpriced art pieces like I did when I was learning. Gibson does make chinese guitars tho, they call them Epiphones and try to sell the decent ones for over $1.2k. They couldn't get the specs right on a limited run of the custom shop Adam Jones V's. $20k guitar. To me that's infinitely worse than actual cheap guitars from sketchy new companies coming with random specs, that should almost be expected. But for Gibson? That being their highest end of quality control at the custom shop is concerning
@@MattSwain1 Gibson is trendy to hate. That's about it. Most people who carry on about them don't have one, and the 700$ barrier to entry to get something that sounds magical when played loud (that's what they do well) will keep them out.
I appreciate your hard work and information you share on your channel. I have been a musician all my life. I’ve owned all brands, models, and types of guitars. I also restore, repair, buy and sell instruments. I think at this time , irregardless of price, the best quality instruments are produced in Indonesia. Cheers!
Oh someone whom has said the truth. What I see is : hi-end Japanese brands, where ever they're made eg China, Korea, Phillipines, Indonesia or Japan, have strong quality control. Especially those which are assessed by their respective japanese factory luthiers, before being shipped to their various international distributors.
I bought a $300 clone of a $3000 bass guitar direct from a Chinese factory. I don’t play bass enough to justify $3k but the ergonomics of the bass are perfect and dont mess up my back. My expectations were low and I planned on doing a bit of finish work on it and replacing the electronics, etc. All in all, the instrument I received was not bad; it wasn’t great either. As part of the finish work I uncovered some “oopsies”: misplaced drill holes covered by a veneer, incomplete routing work on the pickup holes, some of the frets stuck out enough for me to feel, frets weren’t polished, finish had overspray in some spots, chipping in the finish from bad packaging design, etc. All these things can be corrected easily, and as I said, expectations were low. All I really wanted was a reasonable starting point and that’s what I got. If I’d approached a US- based luthier for the same thing, they flat out wouldn’t do it. The specific design is patented, but the patent has since expired and is now public domain. Besides the perceived IP encumbrance, there’s the matter of tooling. So, yeah. Long story short, I wanted something very specific and couldn’t get it another way without having to pay 10x more. I think there are some benefits to China-based stuff, but it’s important to do your research and set your expectations appropriately.
I’m in Electrician I’ve been hanging Chinese made light fixtures for many years, our countries are supposed to have a “standards “ organization to assure everybody’s measurements are the same, their screws are almost 8-32s , almost 10-24 so you’re right you can always tell garbage because it just ain’t the right size.
During my 30 years employed in the construction industry, manufacturing specified products. I was appalled at the total disregard for specification adherence in Chinese factories and was dismayed to hear "just tell us what you want us to put on the box/label/paperwork" even to the extent of "standards" identification markers.😮
I recently purchased a Grote guitar ( Hollow body ) Jazz Guitar with a single P-90 and the specs were extremely detailed. Love the guitar. Unbelievable value.
I recently picked up a D'Angelico Tour mini DC from sweetwater. Excellent guitar (willing to compromise on big round tone for small body), it's a Korean beauty that is well made and sounds very good acoustically as well as amplified. My one complaint is the guitar arrived 'set up',, it had a string distance from the frets of 1.8 to 2.3 mm. This was documented in the tag I received. Upon examination, de-tuning strings, I discovered the truss rod had never been initially tightened from the factory. No problem for me, after 6 months of micro-adjusting it is perfect. Word to the wise, if you try to adjust that truss rod with string tension on, and its never been tightened; that's a good way to strip that truss rod right from day one.
I am now retired, but I worked in the engineering field for 43 years. Most of my career was spent working in offshore oil and gas engineering. During those years I spent a great deal of time working with Chinese and South Korean clients and engineering partners. You can never trust anything those people say. They will tell you whatever they need to in order for it to fit their purpose.
I run a small home business repairing and setting up guitars. I am always disappointed when I open up an offshore guitar regardless of the brand. The same with big brands, disappointed when I look closely at the quality of the workmanship. Bought a 2010 Gibson SG Standard from a client, it was not working so I got it at a very good price. The circuit board was cracked causing open circuits between the pots. Why the heck is a theoretically high end guitar being built with pcb boards? I pulled the pots, pitched the cheap ceramic cap, wired it properly and added a good quality cap and wa la it works great. Another detail in cheap guitars is the fack that the pots in hss guitars are almost always of incorrect values. Why can't they just put the propper parts in, 5k pots and a couple of 470k resistors makes it sound like it should. My business is based on making guitars play and sound like they would have had the factory done their job properly in the first place.
What stands out to me the most about this argument is that the major builders like Gibson, Fender etc.understand, and a lot of people don't is tbat todays knock offs are very close to the specs of the best instruments made. This is due to CNC, laser scanning, and all the other modern technologies that exist. You can literally buy a $200 guitar the sounds every bit as good as a $3000 guitar. And that's good news for buyers. Not so much for sellers.
I've played a couple $200 Chinese imports and found that while they look great and are pretty comfortable, the frets aren't polished, the tuners and electronics don't measure up to a US made guitar every time.
@Napalm6b Fair enough. The existence of sub par knock offs is not in doubt. I am saying that there are plenty of good ones as well. I have an Epiphone Les Paul that probably cost under $300 new . And I play it just as much as my real Les Paul. It's got Grover tuners, humbucker pick-ups, and the specs are damn near identical to Gibsons. The blue burst flames are stunning 😍 on it.
@@RodCalidge Everyone has different preferences and you're right the difference 20 years ago was way bigger. I got an Epi SG400 with a bad neck in 99. New imports are great for the money but there is a difference. I think the US pro strats/teles are worth 1,600 in current dollars.
"I'm old, so a phone looks like this *holds cradle-phone* not this *holds cell* ." There's a reason I love you, Phil. Stay you. (and if it has to be said on the old comment - me too!)
It's not just guitars. Having bought a few inexpensive tech gadgets, I find more and more that many important specs are missing (power use/capacity is a big one). Whether buying a 12V accessory for a car, or a 120V thermostat switch for a heater, this information is important. As to the heater switch, after burning one up that was used well below it's rated wattage (I had to search to find one that published any spec at all), I opened the device to see a relay that couldn't possibly handle the rated current. It seems that this trend could actually be dangerous. Just my .02 worth
Even fender can miss represent their products. About six months ago I researched and purchased a Mustang bass. Through that process I noticed that it said it had 20 frets like my precision bass. Every Mustang Bass said 20 frets. I sent off an email to Fender, and I just checked again and the squire is the only one I believe that shows 20 frets now.
I have two Chinese Gretsch made about 10 years apart. They are virtually the same from a build quality perspective, both being surprisingly good. I've never compared the specs to what Gretsch (Fender) says they are. But I have also found as reported here that some of the specifics you can't find. Even when talking with Fender over the phone, they just don't know specifics (or won't tell you).
i picked up a new chinese made gretsch last year, it is very well made. but it is no surprise that the chinese will stick in the cheapest materials that are spec'd or that they can get away with. as a whole, they arent known for integrity.
Dude, hats-off you. Your insightful video was packed with superlative information. I echo comments by @apofire . Jerry took the words right outta my piehole. You're a one-man guitar-recon unit. Thanks for taking the shrapnel in the guitar commerce trenches - so we don't hafta go to such great trouble and expense. Having watched this video will likely save me significant dough in the long-run... Much Gratitude to you, brother Phillip.
Personally I like Indonesia and China made Guitars for modification platforms... I refuse to pay $2,000 to $20,000 for an electric guitar 🎸🎶.. Cheers 🍻 🥃🥃 🎸
That’s kinda how I feel. Even after adding (your specific choice!) of tuners, electronics, pickups , etc , it is still nowhere near close to the cost of many USA made guitars, which we all know are way overpriced. I think it’s also more fun to play cheap guitars, as there is no worry or concern with using and abusing them!
Same! I have a nice Tele and a Parker Fly deluxe that I paid a lot of money for a long time ago but I have loads of cheaper guitars that are just as good !
It is the same in electronics. If Ali states 5W of 50Ahthen you must be glad if it is 1W or 10Ah (I'm an EE working in the electronics business) Most buyers can not measure or test specs and only gets blinded by the ultralow price and wants it to be true.
I have to say good things about Gear4Music; the approach of 'British quality control on Chinese instruments' really works. The last two Knoxville Tele-style guitars have no fret sprout, and beautiful finishes. The only caveat is that custom hardware from retailers like Guitar Fetish have to be fitted with small changes to the body.
Great observations. I have not purchased a new guitar in a long time bc I don’t have the energy to research specs that I’d probably get wrong anyway when they should be boldly and correctly displayed right in front of my eyes.
Absolutely. Eastman are awesome. I own an SB59/v and an acoustic 12-string and both are such a joy to play. They keep to specs advertised because they pride themselves on quality. They don't sell budget instruments and are focused on the mid-high end price range market... and produce guitars vastly superior in value to much more expensive ones.
In this video, Phil is addressing matching with listed specifications. In my experience I look more for build quality & playability. Can a cheap guitar at least be set up to be playable. I've found China-made guitars to be most consistently flawed, from super inexpensive to around $800. MIK guitars from reputable brands (Squier, Epiphone, PRSSE, Schecter, LTD); Mexico Fenders; &, at the very top, Warmoth are my top choices for hotrodding/customization while keeping quality high & price moderate. I think it's a tragedy that people are wasting money on MIC lookalikes.
As you were talking about Chinese guitars being off spec I was thinking “I can’t imagine PRS being okay with their Chinese guitars being off spec,” then immediately you followed up with “the Chinese made PRS guitars were very close.” I didn’t know you were psychic!
Eastman is a brand and has a brand reputation for quality and they work to protect that brand and have integrity as well as quality control. I agree they make great instruments. I dont think this is what Phil is referring too but tbat is my take on it. Rock on
I have owned several, and inspected dozens, the initial runs of a model are usually higher in quality than the ones that follow just in time to change models etc. 1 out of 4 or 5 was worth owning in my experience.
I find that chinese made Crafter Guitars are very well made and have excellent quality control and finishing. Crafter was founded the same year as Taylor in 1974.
I bought a Brian Moore I-guitar on 2003. It was supposed to be made in Korea. It came and was from China. The body shape was horrible. The curved edge, the actual arc of the body cut was messed up and clearly damaged but still put through all the finish work and assembly. Sent it back. Korean guitar finally showed up (TY Sweetwater) and looked PERFECT!
I bought a Rogue clone type full bodied acoustic/electric for $50 a few years ago. Spent some time filing the frets smooth, adjusting the action, and replaced the strings. My buddy has a whole collection of expensive guitars and basses. He thought my cheap knockoff sounded as good as his $800 Taylor. I am sure his Taylor would last way longer an be worth way more forever. Maybe I got lucky and got the only good Chinese guitar ever made. Either way, for $50 plus $25 for strings, and
I saw this in the original live stream and glad you've isolated it as it is definitely of interest to many out there (including me) - this matters! I have lived in HK since 1982, recorded in studios in Beijing, Shanghai & Guangzhou and for a few years (1998 - 2005) I set up a subsidiary of my music production house in Shanghai at the request of many ad agency execs who made the move from HK to China in the wake of the 1997 handover - essentially all the multi-nationals (Ogilvy, Burnett, McCanns etc.) moved their 'Greater China Offices' from HK to SHG. So . . . I think it's fair to say I have some insight on how things work up there, for better or worse. China is late to the game when it comes to manufacturing guitars. Back in the late '70s, early '80s 'there was still a 'Made in Japan' stigma held over from the '60s, but companies like SONY, Toyota et all soon put paid to that and to this day 'international brand' instruments from Japan, particularly Fender often outshine their US made and Mexican made peers and 'local' brands like Ibanez, Yamaha and Yairi still live in an isolated and innovative space - I own guitars from all 3. The same can be said for Korea, I believe, although 'local Korean brands' are not really visible, despite some extremely good manufacturing for 'known brands'. Indonesia seems to have caught the ball and run with it altho having tried many (and bought 2) SE PRS guitars I still find that the internal wiring is a serious concern - ofter they come out of the box with one or other pick-up not engaging at all - this is not an isolated thing, it's common, sadly. From what I can see of China currently Eastman is in a different league altogether, although I do wonder how much manufacturing is now done in the US given this recent 'Fenderish' trio they are introducing? Either way the Eastman instruments I have played are, on the whole, superb and this doesn't surprise me given the history of the company making fine orchestral instruments. I will be buying an SB 59/v and the Pomona Blonde Juliet when finances allow - I will stick my neck out and say that I really believe some of the early SB59/v's will, in 20+ years time, become 'mini unicorns' in a similar way to late 50s Gibsons. I believe their decision to partner with the likes of Lollar, Bare Knuckles, Gotoh et al in the areas the company does not have expertise in speaks for itself and shows a commitment to delivering overall quality. Epiphone is, on paper at least, a subsidiary of Gibson USA and kicked off with senior management and decision makers from 'head office' and has steadily built on quality and, to an extent, innovation. I own 4 Epiphones made in the last few years (Casino, 1959 Epi/Gibson 'hybrid', Cantrell 'Wino' and a solid body Double Cutaway. That said, I bought these with the express purpose of 'modding' them. To date I have installed Lollar P90s / Bone Nut / 50s wiring in the Casino and plan Monty's Bethnal Greens, Lollar Imperials and, possible Bare Knuckles + internal wiring options for the other 3. I was a guitar salesman back in the '70s in NZ in the run-up to going pro as a musician (and now Producer / Studio owner) and those 3 years opened my eyes to how Gibson (in particular) was perfectly capable of shipping guitars that when I inspected them at the warehouse before purchase, had to be sent straight back to Kalamazoo. What I also learned, intuitively I suppose, was that as long as a guitar 'had bones' the name on the headstock did not really matter (hence my Epi purchases - all 4 are terrific in terms of build and playability but I'm not impressed with the pick-ups and internals - not 'bad' per se, but not great). Having worked with many musicians, studio owners, creative and fashion people and what have you in the 3 main cities over the last 25 years I believe that China definitely has the opportunity to up its game - some companies may emerge as having the quality to stand shoulder to shoulder with US, Japan, Korea - others will, sadly, do what many companies there do - go for a quick killing then move on to something else if short term profits do not last . . . so it goes all over the world when you think about it, n'est-ce pas? Thanks for your insight and honesty, as always 😃
Last year I bought via eBay a secondhand Guild GAD-50 dreadnought made in China. The guitar was built in 2005, when Fender's ownership of the Guild brand was drawing to a close. The build quality is very impressive and importantly, the intonation is spot-on. The sunburst finish is excellent. I'd very much like to know exactly where the guitar was built, and the story behind Fender's decision to manufacture the GAD series Guilds.
It is extremely frustrating, but one of the reasons for inconsistent and/or poor quality in Chinese manufacturing is that workers are generally being paid for piece work and there is no upside for them to stop and flag problems. Workers will literally package unacceptable parts-even obviously damaged or broken product-rather than stopping or even slowing down production. Short of having a full time dedicated QC manager on site, specifications and quality remain hit or miss.
I can say I’ve never bought a guitar online and for good reasons.. first it’s about the experience of going into a guitar store and picking them up and playing them and finding the one that suits you and your taste of weight and neck profile etc and the overall feel of the guitar.. And also the interaction with people and other musicians.. I’ve found out about local bands that way I never knew about.. pedals on the other hand I can understand online purchases it’s electronic and sometimes a local shop may not carry a brand you’re looking for.. So that being said.. that also coincides with guitar specifications maybe that one that’s slightly different feels better to the player and what they like.. just think when Leo Fender was churning out those 50’s and 60’s teles and strats they were all hand made so not one was exactly alike.. And I actually prefer it that way to make an instrument truly unique.. Great discussion and thoughts Phil as always
I don't disagree with your thinking, but unfortunately that's not always a viable option in today's age. There are fewer and fewer brick and mortar stores around today and many of the ones that are around have a limited selection. Some people live hours and hours away from a store with a decent selection, and even still there are only a few areas that have anywhere close to the selection of an online dealer. That's why it's now a "buy before you try" market and that's why the big guys have such generous return policies. You buy a guitar and if it's not exactly what you want, you send it back for another one, or a refund, until you're happy. And it does have an advantage over the old days. Many smaller brick and mortar dealers don't have a very good return policy, if any. Yes you could try out the guitar before you bought it, but if a couple weeks later you realize it's not exactly what you want, then your SOL. If you buy online and decide its not exactly what you want after a few weeks, you can send it back and not lose a dime. There are brick and mortar stores that do have generous return policies but again not everyone lives near one of them.
If I did that, I'd never be able to get a 6-string bass. I've seen exactly two 5-string basses within an hour of where I am. Heck, I'd never be able to get anything from Ibanez without driving a ridiculous distance. Even big brands have rather minimal showing in local shops. I can find a few Yamahas, a handful of Gibson LPs (never anything else), most of the local stock is Fender, Squire, and Gretsch.
@user-ri3gh6yb5k thats crazy, refusing to place an order for a customer from a brand that you're an authorized dealer for, is basically declining and sale and telling your customers to buy from someone else. There are plenty of dealers that will gladly take your money and order whatever you want.
I think the reason we’re seeing less spec information is because many of these companies have realised that we’ll buy the guitars anyway.. I don’t think it’s for fear of internet reviewer comparisons or mistakes. Plus those of us who do purchases online, there will only be a very small number who go thru the challenges of returning an item, it’s a massive pain. Also. While it’s illegal in most western countries, I also see companies stating requirements for ‘restocking’ fees, so watch out for that!
Yes that's definitely part of it. People that buy the guitars that are being talked about are buying them because they're cheap and they're copied designs of more expensive guitars. They're not buying that guitar because it says its made of mahogany, they're buying it because it's cheaper than an Epiphone. But they also allow the manufacturers to swap out materials, specs, whatever else that is necessary to keep production going at the agreed upon proce point.
I returned a bass just a couple weeks ago. It was super easy. Just gotta deal with reputable dealers. As for restocking fees, I don't see the issue. Unless there is a problem with the instrument, then it's not their fault I no longer want the product. The way I see it is you are paying for the labor and other costs involved in both originally shipping and now receiving the item.
@@Vykk_Draygo was it from a dealer like sweet water or similar? I guess I’m referring more to the direct manufacturer sales that were sawing more and more of. They’re generally not as well schooled in logistics. Aside of that, the restocking fee is not legal in most countries.
Been playing guitar for 53 years now and took a gamble getting this Gibson ES 335 copy made by Best Choice Products for $139 online. I was actually quite impressed, the action and intonation was right on. The only thing I did was change the strings and raised the pickups.
My friend bought a brand new Gibson SG from Guitar Center and the nut was cut waaay off. I have read places like Sweetwater check their guitars with a fine tooth comb.
I bought a PRS SE that had a quite bad neck deformity right out of the box. I sent it back to Sweetwater, and they very promptly sent me a replacement, but that guitar had multiple problems. Granted, none were as bad as the horrible neck on the first, but bad enough that I sent that one back too. I just ended up saying screw it and had them send me a gorgeous, amazing Gibson USA Les Paul Standard that was perfect. Left me with a very bad anecdotal impression of Indonesian guitars. I had an Eastwood/Airline Tuxedo, made in Korea, that was really good, though. It’s just a crap shoot out there, I think.
I am a product design engineer in the USA. Management has decided that in the interest of efficiency and lowering costs globally, all corporate purchasing and reimbursement will be filtered thru TWO third party companies in India. These two companies love to source our components in India and China. Our experience with Indian and Chinese suppliers is that delivered quality tends to gather at the low end of the scale. We've ordered parts with specific alloy specs that show up machined from mystery metal. The part might be cast from the specified polymer for the initial first article inspection run but then the supplier 'suggests' a substitution and tells us - "You Like!" and it's crap. However, among the shady fly by night Asian vendors are a few gems that act professionally, but you pay for them to deliver to specification. These vendors can deliver top quality, but they're also hard to find and retain.
Living in the UK I'm not hampered by the 'America is best' mentality. For me most guitars are imports and i like to think I can be impartial but I have to say I'm finding many of the comments to this video amusing if unsurprising. I recognise that your comments were measured and factual towards a certain sector of Chinese manufacturing (it certainly wouldn't apply to companies like Eastman) but all a worrying percentage of your viewers are going to take from it is "see I was right all along, even Phil says Chinese guitars are crap' (note I also recognise you wasn't saying they are crap, just not to spec).What I find really amusing though is that you are honest enough to say that American guitars are the second worst, a fact that a lot of commentators chose to ignore. I'm fortunate that I don't have to feel guilty about not supporting the US economy so I can get fantastic quality guitars from Korea, Indonesia and Japan knowing I've saved a load of money and got a better product. 😂
I just acquired a Kepma OM guitar. On a whim. They make and sell 20,000 guitars a MONTH in China, India, Asia. Plek aged. All solid. Actuator Chorus system. Great hardware. Great finish. Made mostly by robots. MSRP: $1,000. Bought used for $600. I've played EVERY acoustic brand, vintage wanna-have, etc., under the sun. Say what one will about the Chinese "market", this Kepma shows how easy it can be for them to make a VERY good guitar en masse. This guitar is excellent. Eadtmans aren't bad either.
I've played some Kepma at a store in Beijing that seemed to be an official stockist for the brand. The staff showed me a video with the CNC machines at the factory etc. However, I felt they were overbuilt, hardly felt as if it was made of wood. The tone was also too clean and bright for my tastes compared to an Eastman (I own two). I can see a market for Kepma though, similar to how Takamine got their reputation. Workhorses for the professional guitarist playing covers of pop ballads as background music in a bar, plugged into a PA system. That more or less is what "live music" means for 90% of China, outside of the more niche underground scenes of the big cities or blues bands in expat bars etc.
Enya guitars is another Chinese brand that pops up in review channels on Bilibili (Chinese version of UA-cam). They sound a bit better to my ears, again on the sweeter side though. Better suited for finger style than strumming maybe ?
THis is a really interesting analysis with some good perspectives. It's interesting to know that you don't always get what you pay for. As a side note, I've dabbled in guitar for a long time, but last year I decided to learn viola. I was short on cash so I started with a $100 unit from a basically unknown Chinese brand, and I have been astounded by how happy I am with it for the price. It sounds good enough to keep me excited about playing, and it even stays in tune in the case most of the time.
I've had good luck with MIK guitars over the years. I still have and play my first real guitar which is an LTD explorer. I don't think I've ever had to adjust the truss rod on that thing in 21 years and it still plays great.
In my experience you can get good guitars manufactured in any country but the best or most consistently good ones are made in Japan maybe followed by made in USA (excluding Gibson). But I also got a flawless Squier made in China and I played good Ibanez guitars made in Indonesia.
My slope shoulder Eastman is better feeling and sounding to me that a Taylor 714. The Eastman T-185 electric is a hollow body solid woods beautiful looking and my go to electric. Eastman is very good. Quality
@@qua7771 Thanks. I own an Eastman E1D, the cheapest guitar they make that's all solid wood (Sapele back/sides, spruce top) and having owned a 1956 J-45, I prefer the Eastman. It doesn't sound like a D-18, even though it's basically a copy of a D-18 with a shallower body. It's easy to play, sounds WAY better than its price, and it has a sound all its own. ANYBODY can make a good $10,000.00 guitar. But Eastman is one of the only companies that makes a great $600 guitar!
@@samk4801 I think the reason is obvious. An American production facility is stupid expensive for the same process. The Eastman factory must have someone overseeing their quality.
Yes, and it makes sense re: Chinese guitars. These imported guitar have really upgraded their quality at the entry price point. Over my 5+ decades of playing I've owned every major guitar brand, and I do my own tech work. If you can do basic setup work you will not go wrong (on average) with an import guitar. I never buy a guitar with the thought process of I'll mod this or that. I mod what is necessary to make it a quality player. For example, many of the locking tuners on an import don't turn or move properly. In everyone I've had an issue with I simply unscrew the locking portion and deposit a drop of good quality lubricant (not WD 40). Everyone of those turners then worked as well as any $125+ set on the market. The Trem systems are normally cheaper, but here's the thing if you are a beginner it's fine. If you want something better, there several S/S trems aftermarket for under $60 that will simply slide in the existing cavity. Electronics = tone, and tone is subjective. Some electronic are gig ready and some may need work, but again if you are a beginner they are fine.
If I had two clay bricks and one was made in China, the other in Japan, would it suprise you to discover the Japanese ones were uniform and exactly to specs, while the Chinese ones (which cost a lot less) varied from one to the next?
My Ibanez RG, made in Korea in 2006, officially says it has rosewood fretboard, but honestly, it looks more like macassar ebony…it’s very dark, and also feels different, more slick, under fingers…I have other guitars with rosewood fretboard and it does feel different…then again, this guitar was made just a few months before the famous Cort Korea protests due to workers being unpaid, so I guess there were some bigger problems going on there than caring which wood goes on which guitar.
@@raymonddixon7603 Rosewood is softer and more porous. It is not as slick as Ebony either. I like Rosewood, but I like Ebony better. I seem to play smoother and faster with Ebony than I do with Rosewood. All of the classical instruments (violin, viola, etc.) have Ebony fingerboards.
@@beatlesrgear Would not be any concern to me either way. I have played both. Just checked my three acoustic instruments, tatay classical, a maccaferri copy and a Richwood acoustic. They are all rosewood as it happens, but I had to check!!
I have emailed several brands about their spec being off, or add copy that is incorrect, and in most cases they emailed back. Indio by mono price is one. Grote is another. A couple I never heard back from were firefly, despite having major issues, and Epiphone. I gave up on trying to communicate with them after three tries.
I have a £220 made in Indonesia Epiphone Les Paul studio E1 Ebony and it's a great guitar. It was rather plain looking from the factory, but I'm changing some of the hardware which makes it look a lot more interesting and far less plain. It feels great to play; it feels so easy to play. I'm really glad what I was sent was one made in Indonesia. The website listing says 'made in South Korea / Indonesia / China / Vietnam'. The guitar I've had since my teenage years is a Japanese 1994 Squier strat HSS and it's a good quality guitar
Most of almost anything we currently buy is made in China. The Chinese can make anything you want, at almost any quality level, pretty much every major brand, whether musical instruments, cars, motorcycles, printers has their products made in China, even prestige brands use chinese components, although the final product may be assembled in the USA, or the EU. Is anyone querying the quality of iphones? no. The issue with the chinese is the minute your back is turned they tend to change things to save money/increase profit, so in the case of guitars, they'll substitute different woods or electronics, or even fretwire. The way to get around this is to have your own quality control people in the manufacturing facility, as almost all major brands do. Without that oversight the product will vary from the original design brief or specification. Exactly he same issues arise with manufacturing in India, turn your back and your motorcycle Bosch fuel injection will be substituted with some counterfeit local equipment (badged as Bosch) the smaller BMW motorcycles are made in India and you can bet your a** that BMW are watching things like a hawk, it's their brand they need to protect.
Yeah, for specs these days you get stuff like: HSS ST-type. Body: wood. Neck: wood. Nut: yes. Frets: yes. Box dimensions... Shipping weight.... "Very good for muicality"
Thank you for addressing the Chinese manufacturer issue. It's brave of you to do so. Two days ago, I was looking online at a really beautiful guitar for a price I can easily afford and would happily pay in order to own and experience a different style/brand of guitar. Then I saw the "Made in China" stamp on the back of the headstock. That photo reminded me of the tainted paints on Christmas toys imported from China a decade ago. I forced myself to close their webpage! How could I buy a guitar (even at 5/8 the price I'd already prepared to pay) which I'd handle & playing repeatedly over a long period of time from a country which sees no problem in using poisonous paint on kid's Christmas toys? China as an exporter to the US has zero integrity toward the American consumer. A different large guitar company has already lost my business due to a couple of lackluster experiences. Frankly, I hated to even look at some of their alternate brand guitars...before seeing the China stamp on the headstock. Your video has cemented my "China guitar" wariness by explaining that what I see/read from some brands is not necessarily the spec/measurements I'd be receiving from their manufacturing affiliates. Thank you for taking the hard stance and calling a spade a spade. It informs the rest of us and also confirms your credibility.
I'd be interested in your take on Korean made Epiphone Led Puals compared to the Chinese made versions. I am specifically looking at 56 Led Paul Goldtop with P90s that is Korean made. It "seems" to be very well built and a bit heavier than the Chinese version made later. Bear in mind I replace all electronics in my Epiphones with Seymour Duncan pickups, Bourns pots and Orange drop capacitors, the switches, plugs and vintage Gibson wiring.
I love this video. I look at the new stuff from China with the attitude that if I find a beautiful instrument like a fake-fender with a paint job I love, I can buy the tuners and single coil frets for under $400 and be in the range of a Fender Am Ultra... another $150 for a neck keeping only the body and you could save enough to make three nice guitars by adding in the factory hardware.
I remember when I wanted to learn to play 30 years ago. I had no idea what guitar prices were. Of course I had heard of fender/Gibson/Paul Reed Smith/ibanez etc. luckily I had a friend that played guitar and he steered my to a Mexican Tele as a starer guitar. It was what I learned on and still own to this day. It's nice to have budget options.
A friend of mine once said to a ‘guitar snob’ : “ so, would you rather have a guitar made in Mexico by Mexicans or a guitar made in California by Mexicans? “.
Phillip, it seems like your excellent content has led to solid credibility and that in turn leads to even better content. This video is eight minutes of content gold, extremely engaging and informative with zero fluff. Keep on rockin"!
If I had two clay bricks and one was made in China, the other in Japan, would it suprise you to discover the Japanese ones were uniform and exactly to specs, while the Chinese ones (which cost a lot less) varied from one to the next?
US guitars are better in general . Japanese just as good probably better . As far as import tier guitars (I don’t consider Japanese as ‘import tier’) go , Korea (World Music ) is by far superior.
You really changed firefly. I have seen three different models from the last couple of months and the qc on those products was actually mind blowing, on par with epi with the exception of pickups.
On the wall behind you is a Parker. I wasn't a fan of it's piezo pickup but I loved the design of the guitar: fiberglass fretboard and stainless steel pickups; neck-through-body; ultra-thin concave body; thin neck and a wicked headstock. I tried one out at a music store in Birmingham, Alabama. They said Joe Walsh was in town and had bought one. I don't know if he ever played it on stage. Did you ever review this guitar?
The specification mismatch is also because the companies just copy specifications from someone else’s catalogue/website and just publishes that as the specs. The guitar is not necessarily off speck, the write-up is. Or the specs might have been accurate for the previous batch. And if they churn out guitars with whatever parts they get their hands on, not publishing any detail is just easier.
What I don't undesrtand is why Squier can't make as many colors and variations of their guitars as Glarry or many of the other brands that make Strat and Tele copies. All the others offer maple fretboards on every color and offer many more colors and some have matching headstocks. Some have more pickup combinations, hardware choices like tremolos or hardtails, Squier gives two or three? Step it up Squier, the competition is smoking you in the variety field!
what phil is leaving out is the wood dont mean anything to the sound because the tone glue that holds the 3 to 10 pieces of wood together, and that glue stops the vibrations. right? glue turns to plastic, basically right? good vibs man
My early Chinese Squier classic vibe 50's Telecaster and 60's Stratocaster guitars are very much up to the specs to the original fender U.S.A. models. I don't know about the ones where the Chinese manufacturing places were changed.But the ones I have sre extremely well built.The only different is where the trust rod is located and the logo on the head stock. The good Squier Chinese models have the Fender logo in script below the Squier gold logo.
I just got the Kramer assault figured and it has a handcrafted in china label on it I had just got a assault plus made in Indonesia and only had it 3 days and the headstock snapped off at the high E string when i unlocked it for tuning Sweetwater didn't have any more so they gave me the figured for the same price The quality so far seems better than the Indonesian version to me
Chinese parts are usually far out of spec because they often times acquire used die's and molds for what was at one time premium named brand parts. This is why you'll find these things are nearly exact clones of premium products from a few years ago. They get hold of this specialized manufacturing equipment after the major producers sunset an old product line and design a new updated product and then let the licensing expire. But because these die's, molds, and forms are old they are often worn out and out of spec to where the tolerances are off by a margin of many factors. But because the clones are so cheap you can buy five or even ten of them for the price of what was one of the original product's prices. Odds are that at least one or two of the lot you purchase will manage to land somewhere within the intended bell curve of allowable tolerances just by chance.
The chinese approach to manufacturing is somewhat pragmatic. Everything is built to turn a profit. It a thing is off spec but sells then fair enough. There is not really a culture of excellence in the same way Japan does things. It is the same with Indian pharmaceuticals. They keep the good stuff for their domestic market and what they export is often the bare minimum standard that will sell. Once the product is on the container ship it largely ceases to be their problem. A lot of countries take this approach.
Honestly I don’t care if China copies the best of USA manufacturing and does it for 1/10th the price. I understand the current landscape of geopolitics, and I’m American. In other words - I’m not buying *anything* from China if I can help it.
They aren’t copying it though - like… you aren’t getting a 1 to 1 copy. Chinese manufacturing is full of short cuts. So if the quality is sufficient - then that’s great. But you aren’t getting the same thing as a US guitar for 1/10th the cost. I also guarantee you there is some water supply, ecosystem or Forrest getting reamed for that guitar.
I recently had that experience with a Donner LP copy. It was on sale for the ridiculous price of $70 (after a couple of discounts), so I searched for reviews and found nothing but praise from a dozen or so different reviewers. It was supposed to be fully set up and ready to play. The one they sent me had loose strings, so that's lie number one. upon tightening the strings, the neck was severely bowed and a bit warpy. After dealing with getting it playable, I started working on the fret ends which were all scratchy. I found that the fret material was super soft, unbelievably cheap metal, and the binding as well was more akin to chalk than anything else. I checked the intonation, and the High E is still flat with the saddle fully cranked down. At that point I shoved it in the closet although I was tempted to take it out on the sidewalk and smash the hell out of it. I figured I might as well get some pleasure out of it by abusing it slowly before turning it into a rat axe. I left comments on every reviewer I could find about what a $#!+ gweetah it really is.
they may be off spec, but are they consistent. If it says the nut width is a, but it is consistently b that isn't as bad as the nut width being all over the place.
I typically don’t purchase Chinese made instruments but recently acquired a Gold Tone ob-3 banjo. It’s made in china but would match American made . It is considerably expensive for a overseas made instrument though.
I really don't care. I've saved thousands of dollars on Chinese guitars. CNC machines don't care if they're on the main land or off shore. I've gotten guitars in perfect shape and ones that needed upgrading (tuners, nut, etc.). No big deal. Still saving money. I really don't obsess on specs. Does it play? Does it sound good? Can I afford it? Those are my main concerns. Not brand name or country of origin.
not about whats country made , more like the brand how they operate, some honest , some shady like just want quick money , lot of small brand people never heard of ,because they dont care the reputation, just stick a new brand on headstock do it all over again , lot of brand didnt own a guitar factory, they send the design and spec to those guitar manufacturers , manufacturers simply take the order , how the product description honest or not all depend on the brand .
Exactly. My first guitar is a Mexican tele and I've had it 25 yrs with not mods. Sounds and plays great. I got a used squire stat, slapped some Texas specials in it, and it still sounded like shart. Anything bought from overseas is a crap shoot. Rock on
I would actually point to the "specs" themselves in terms of what tolerances the brand company puts in their orders. The cut in price has to come from somewhere.. it's precision. If they order a guitar with a 25" scale length... +/- 1.5" - you might get it at 1/10 the price but you're not getting a consistent product and you're almost definitely never going to be dead on spec.
I bought a FuManChu body from a Chinese seller two years ago. It was sold as a Jaguar body...it was a Jazzmaster. Talk about frustration... Never having owned a Jag all the parts I ordered, including the neck, were wrong. The seller said "too bad for you". Next I bought a real Jag style body from Saylor guitars in Oregon... could not be happier. I also bought a couple Chinese necks ... specs were way off. The seller said they can't make necks to Fender specs because of patents.. when did that ever prevent any Chinese product from being a near perfect copy of a western design.
Phil, you’re not wrong. I observed years ago that manufacturers were changing models of electronics faster than Consumer Reports could review them, so much so that a reviewed product was no longer available when the report was published. The pace seemed to change and I don’t think it because newer models would sell better. It appeared to me, perhaps cynically, it simply was better for sales to not be pinned down by reviews.
The guitars on the wall look like they're at an angle rather than perpendicular to the ground. That is messing up my mind. Is it an optical illusion or are they really all at an angle?
To each their own. I would rather spend double, get a high quality guitar and keep American's working. What do you think Eastman would charge if their product dumping put their American competition out of business..?
As I said, to each their own. When Chinese dumping puts Martin, Taylor etc., out of business, Chinese guitars will be priced higher than their former (American and Canadian) competitors. But hey, we saved a few bucks today, didn't we?
Enjoyed this video as well as your other ones. Not terribly surprised by your findings. I do have a question: What has been your findings with the Epiphone Artist series guitars? Does having the artists name directly associated with the guitar (Joe Bonamassa, BB King, Slash to name a few) result in a higher quality and "in spec" guitar?? Supposedly, Gibson/Epiphone directly manage their Qingdao factory that was opened in 2006. Are we getting a "better" guitar. Your thoughts please? Thanks, Bryan
I recently purchased a 2001 Squire telecaster made in indonesia, near perfect shape. After a fret level, did myself, I am very pleased with the quality build. I agree Indonesia are better guitars than most over seas manufacturers.
As far as I'm concerned made in Japan and made in Korea license the guitars are the best bang for the buck. You get one of these with 20-year-old wood that's been firmed up and not going to break the headstock off because you're just tuning it to pitch is your best bet. I have an Epiphone flying v from Korea and it rocks like a mofo. I'll take that over the unfinished flying V's made in America for two grand. Hell no. Made in Indonesia is also awesome. Made in Japan is super fantastic because you get real quality wood and expert craftsmanship. And that respect who cares if it says made in USA.
My Guess is that most of this is due to communications between Marketing and the Factory. Marketing gets the specs a few months before release date they make up their marketing sheets meanwhile the factory had to make a change and never notified marketing. Once Marketing does find out via customers it is too late as they are on to another product.
Thank you for great video. Very interesting. Do you have any overarching view on playability or the overall quality of “those” instruments? That would have been interesting to hear. I mean a crappy or a low cost guitar can still be decent despite that the specs are off.
I agree with you that obtaining reliable specs on guitars that interest me is often difficult. I have more guitars than I need perhaps, but being older I am ready to weed out some that have not thrilled me for various reasons and keep the good ones. I have ordered two budget priced Chinese made models and one, an LP style is beautiful, but what was supposed to be a mahogany body and neck are a rather unstable species of unknown variety. The other, a Tele style made in Indonesia and marketed by a German instrument seller is fantastic. Hit or miss I suppose.
I worked in china for 30 years in furniture manufacturing. There is no traceability of wood in china. Chinese versions of timber can be very different to ours eg Chinese oak vs us oak. What you need to know also is that there are 30 different types of Mahogany worldwide all with different density etc. So saying mahogany or any other timber is pretty useless anyway even if Fender say it
The wood branding is mostly marketing in guitar building using terms that often include a wide variety of different timber. The quality of the wood is far far more important than the actual species anyway.
Each country has its own quality of wood and also quality of metal it produces..in my experience with guitars , Korea has the best of both as far as imports go . By far.
@@juanvaldez5422 Yes, that's the reason why original Floyd Roses are made in Germany.
The Chinese have a very inconsistent approach to QC.
I've owned a guitar repair & custom shop for almost 40 years. As for major USA brands that don't give the customer what they say they're giving them, I've had personal experience with an inadvertent revelation to me of what you're talking about by one of the biggest names in the business. I was at a sub-contractor's finishing facility overseeing a project for another independent mfr when I came across multi (at least four)-piece guitar bodies that were laminated front & back with either one-piece or book matched veneers and then sunbursted so you couldn't tell. I've also seen guitars made in China for major brands get noticeably better, while non-brands and outright counterfeits LOOK better, but are often way off. Example: a customer brought in a LP Custom-style guitar that he knew was fake, because he wanted us to install a Floyd trem and didn't want to do that to a real Gibson. Leaving aside the fact that many actual Gibsons we've seen over time have been disastrously flawed, this guitar LOOKED absolutely stunning in an eggshell white with gold hardware. Upon opening it up we found the cavities had been cut with - I shit you not - a chisel, and the bridge was 1/4" off from where it should have been! On the other hand, some newer-brand deluxe upmarket Chinese imports have impressed with the quality of execution and attention to detail. PS even though I've been in & around this business a lot longer than you, as a new viewer I'm seriously impressed with what you do/have done. Keep it up!
thank you for your honesty as going into a geetar shop these days and pulling fenders or gibsons off the rack and trying to find the right one is not what it was like before............... A LOT of them really don't feel or play very good and frankly they give me the impression of "cheap". I do have a VOS plaintop that is stunning and a custom strat from 91 that i love ( so I'm spoiled) , but I also have a tokai loverock LS 100 & a breezysound from about 80/81 and those knock offs so good they make my others mentioned feel cheep as well ...lol. Anyways if you have some overseas models worth checking out, we're all ears.
I have quite a few luthier friends so a little insight into your world. I agree, the build quality of major brands is sometimes not very good. As you say bridges off position, poorly fitted nuts etc. I have never come across one of these being a Martin. Some of the Korean and Japanese guitars are outstanding build quality. Typically, Japanese Fenders are hard to beat for this. Chinese guitars are getting better and can be outstanding if the customer will pay for it.
@@bazjones5282 Agreed re: more expensive Chinese, and most Korean & Japanese going way back. I own a 25yr old Korean ES-150 style jazz guitar and it is every bit the equal of a Gibson of similar design.
TLDR.
i've got 14 guitars, given away one, and abandoned another. the one i use for solos is a chibinez my brother bought for me. taken it for work 3 times in 8 odd years. first time he really gave it a work over to make great. other times were for the D string bridge needed shimmying and replacement of fine tuners.
This is exactly the kind of video I want to see. You provided extremely Valuable information to people like me who don’t have the ability to measure, test and inspect multiple brands. Your knowledge base is invaluable to tons of viewers who can’t possibly know that information. Thank you for sharing your data and your opinion in your videos.
Regardless of country of origin, when you get stuff that is badly off spec it’s because you’re not dealing with a musical instrument company, just someone who is shipping a commodity to make money today. They’ll do it while they’re making money but 3 years from now that factory will be producing flat pack furniture or whatever is more profitable at the time. There’s people who hate brands like Gibson, but for all of their faults, you’re at least buying from someone who is interested in music and making musical instruments
Agree
But with gibson/epiphone you're paying the history tax because of their overinflated ego. They can't even make you a flawless instrument for $20k so I wouldn't run the risk with one of their "cheap" $5k models. The best guitars I've felt so far are from Japan. You can spend $1k-$2k and get a guitar that blows any gibson/epiphone ever made out of the water, and it'll show up in tune, set up, with perfect intonation. And stay that way. Gibson is too interested in making guitars for doctors, lawyers, and dentists these days to say they're in it for musicians or making instruments. They're art pieces for collectors at best with a few bands still around playing them. A shame too cause they used to be my dream guitar
@@SlyRyFry you’re arguing with a point that I didn’t make 🙄 I didn’t say that Gibson made perfect guitars just that they were an example of an actual musical instrument company compared to these Chinese companies that manufacture commodities that currently happen to be guitar shaped.
@@MattSwain1 Not trying to argue anything, just pointing out the facts so newer musicians don't fixate on overpriced art pieces like I did when I was learning. Gibson does make chinese guitars tho, they call them Epiphones and try to sell the decent ones for over $1.2k. They couldn't get the specs right on a limited run of the custom shop Adam Jones V's. $20k guitar. To me that's infinitely worse than actual cheap guitars from sketchy new companies coming with random specs, that should almost be expected. But for Gibson? That being their highest end of quality control at the custom shop is concerning
@@MattSwain1 Gibson is trendy to hate. That's about it. Most people who carry on about them don't have one, and the 700$ barrier to entry to get something that sounds magical when played loud (that's what they do well) will keep them out.
I appreciate your hard work and information you share on your channel. I have been a musician all my life. I’ve owned all brands, models, and types of guitars. I also restore, repair, buy and sell instruments. I think at this time , irregardless of price, the best quality instruments are produced in Indonesia. Cheers!
Oh someone whom has said the truth. What I see is : hi-end Japanese brands, where ever they're made eg China, Korea, Phillipines, Indonesia or Japan, have strong quality control. Especially those which are assessed by their respective japanese factory luthiers, before being shipped to their various international distributors.
I have an Indonesian-made LTD Black Metal Arrow and the build quality is amazing. Also came incredibly well set-up
I bought a $300 clone of a $3000 bass guitar direct from a Chinese factory. I don’t play bass enough to justify $3k but the ergonomics of the bass are perfect and dont mess up my back.
My expectations were low and I planned on doing a bit of finish work on it and replacing the electronics, etc.
All in all, the instrument I received was not bad; it wasn’t great either. As part of the finish work I uncovered some “oopsies”: misplaced drill holes covered by a veneer, incomplete routing work on the pickup holes, some of the frets stuck out enough for me to feel, frets weren’t polished, finish had overspray in some spots, chipping in the finish from bad packaging design, etc.
All these things can be corrected easily, and as I said, expectations were low. All I really wanted was a reasonable starting point and that’s what I got.
If I’d approached a US- based luthier for the same thing, they flat out wouldn’t do it. The specific design is patented, but the patent has since expired and is now public domain. Besides the perceived IP encumbrance, there’s the matter of tooling.
So, yeah. Long story short, I wanted something very specific and couldn’t get it another way without having to pay 10x more. I think there are some benefits to China-based stuff, but it’s important to do your research and set your expectations appropriately.
I have US, Canadian, Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian and Korean guitars in my collections. I love them all.
same
I’m in Electrician I’ve been hanging Chinese made light fixtures for many years, our countries are supposed to have a “standards “ organization to assure everybody’s measurements are the same, their screws are almost 8-32s , almost 10-24 so you’re right you can always tell garbage because it just ain’t the right size.
During my 30 years employed in the construction industry, manufacturing specified products. I was appalled at the total disregard for specification adherence in Chinese factories and was dismayed to hear "just tell us what you want us to put on the box/label/paperwork" even to the extent of "standards" identification markers.😮
I recently purchased a Grote guitar ( Hollow body ) Jazz Guitar with a single P-90 and the specs were extremely detailed. Love the guitar. Unbelievable value.
I recently picked up a D'Angelico Tour mini DC from sweetwater. Excellent guitar (willing to compromise on big round tone for small body), it's a Korean beauty that is well made and sounds very good acoustically as well as amplified. My one complaint is the guitar arrived 'set up',, it had a string distance from the frets of 1.8 to 2.3 mm. This was documented in the tag I received. Upon examination, de-tuning strings, I discovered the truss rod had never been initially tightened from the factory. No problem for me, after 6 months of micro-adjusting it is perfect. Word to the wise, if you try to adjust that truss rod with string tension on, and its never been tightened; that's a good way to strip that truss rod right from day one.
I am now retired, but I worked in the engineering field for 43 years. Most of my career was spent working in offshore oil and gas engineering. During those years I spent a great deal of time working with Chinese and South Korean clients and engineering partners. You can never trust anything those people say. They will tell you whatever they need to in order for it to fit their purpose.
so do the American company working in SEA region, they always tell their client here , everything they supply & do is the best in the world😊
I run a small home business repairing and setting up guitars. I am always disappointed when I open up an offshore guitar regardless of the brand.
The same with big brands, disappointed when I look closely at the quality of the workmanship.
Bought a 2010 Gibson SG Standard from a client, it was not working so I got it at a very good price.
The circuit board was cracked causing open circuits between the pots.
Why the heck is a theoretically high end guitar being built with pcb boards?
I pulled the pots, pitched the cheap ceramic cap, wired it properly and added a good quality cap and wa la it works great.
Another detail in cheap guitars is the fack that the pots in hss guitars are almost always of incorrect values.
Why can't they just put the propper parts in, 5k pots and a couple of 470k resistors makes it sound like it should.
My business is based on making guitars play and sound like they would have had the factory done their job properly in the first place.
wa la
What stands out to me the most about this argument is that the major builders like Gibson, Fender etc.understand, and a lot of people don't is tbat todays knock offs are very close to the specs of the best instruments made. This is due to CNC, laser scanning, and all the other modern technologies that exist. You can literally buy a $200 guitar the sounds every bit as good as a $3000 guitar. And that's good news for buyers. Not so much for sellers.
I've played a couple $200 Chinese imports and found that while they look great and are pretty comfortable, the frets aren't polished, the tuners and electronics don't measure up to a US made guitar every time.
@Napalm6b Fair enough. The existence of sub par knock offs is not in doubt. I am saying that there are plenty of good ones as well. I have an Epiphone Les Paul that probably cost under $300 new . And I play it just as much as my real Les Paul. It's got Grover tuners, humbucker pick-ups, and the specs are damn near identical to Gibsons. The blue burst flames are stunning 😍 on it.
@@RodCalidge Everyone has different preferences and you're right the difference 20 years ago was way bigger. I got an Epi SG400 with a bad neck in 99. New imports are great for the money but there is a difference. I think the US pro strats/teles are worth 1,600 in current dollars.
Thank you for doing some short videos. It really helps
"I'm old, so a phone looks like this *holds cradle-phone* not this *holds cell* ." There's a reason I love you, Phil. Stay you. (and if it has to be said on the old comment - me too!)
It's not just guitars. Having bought a few inexpensive tech gadgets, I find more and more that many important specs are missing (power use/capacity is a big one). Whether buying a 12V accessory for a car, or a 120V thermostat switch for a heater, this information is important. As to the heater switch, after burning one up that was used well below it's rated wattage (I had to search to find one that published any spec at all), I opened the device to see a relay that couldn't possibly handle the rated current. It seems that this trend could actually be dangerous. Just my .02 worth
Even fender can miss represent their products. About six months ago I researched and purchased a Mustang bass. Through that process I noticed that it said it had 20 frets like my precision bass. Every Mustang Bass said 20 frets. I sent off an email to Fender, and I just checked again and the squire is the only one I believe that shows 20 frets now.
I have two Chinese Gretsch made about 10 years apart. They are virtually the same from a build quality perspective, both being surprisingly good. I've never compared the specs to what Gretsch (Fender) says they are. But I have also found as reported here that some of the specifics you can't find. Even when talking with Fender over the phone, they just don't know specifics (or won't tell you).
i picked up a new chinese made gretsch last year, it is very well made. but it is no surprise that the chinese will stick in the cheapest materials that are spec'd or that they can get away with. as a whole, they arent known for integrity.
@@leftyo9589 They're just Communist slaves who do the bare minimum to stay out of the gulags.
@@leftyo9589 How do you know what they "get away with"? Any concrete info? Or paranoia?
Thanks for your honesty, Phil!
Dude, hats-off you. Your insightful video was packed with superlative information. I echo comments by @apofire . Jerry took the words right outta my piehole.
You're a one-man guitar-recon unit. Thanks for taking the shrapnel in the guitar commerce trenches - so we don't hafta go to such great trouble and expense.
Having watched this video will likely save me significant dough in the long-run... Much Gratitude to you, brother Phillip.
Personally I like Indonesia and China made Guitars for modification platforms... I refuse to pay $2,000 to $20,000 for an electric guitar 🎸🎶.. Cheers 🍻 🥃🥃 🎸
That’s kinda how I feel. Even after adding (your specific choice!) of tuners, electronics, pickups , etc , it is still nowhere near close to the cost of many USA made guitars, which we all know are way overpriced. I think it’s also more fun to play cheap guitars, as there is no worry or concern with using and abusing them!
Indeed👍🏾
@@melbookermusic Yes Agreed 💯😎🎸🎶
Same! I have a nice Tele and a Parker Fly deluxe that I paid a lot of money for a long time ago but I have loads of cheaper guitars that are just as good !
@@officialWWM yes indeed...
“Specifications are subject to change without notice”
Epiphone yep
The specifications have been altered. Pray I do not alter them further.
😅
It is the same in electronics. If Ali states 5W of 50Ahthen you must be glad if it is 1W or 10Ah (I'm an EE working in the electronics business) Most buyers can not measure or test specs and only gets blinded by the ultralow price and wants it to be true.
I have to say good things about Gear4Music; the approach of 'British quality control on Chinese instruments' really works. The last two Knoxville Tele-style guitars have no fret sprout, and beautiful finishes. The only caveat is that custom hardware from retailers like Guitar Fetish have to be fitted with small changes to the body.
The Eastmans I’ve played have been absolutely exemplary - & I own an SB59v and a T49D/V. But granted not an example of a typical Chinese guitar
Great observations. I have not purchased a new guitar in a long time bc I don’t have the energy to research specs that I’d probably get wrong anyway when they should be boldly and correctly displayed right in front of my eyes.
Absolutely. Eastman are awesome. I own an SB59/v and an acoustic 12-string and both are such a joy to play. They keep to specs advertised because they pride themselves on quality. They don't sell budget instruments and are focused on the mid-high end price range market... and produce guitars vastly superior in value to much more expensive ones.
@@dangeorge809 Eastman instruments are not mass produced in a factory but instead made in a workshop by skilled artisans.
In this video, Phil is addressing matching with listed specifications. In my experience I look more for build quality & playability. Can a cheap guitar at least be set up to be playable. I've found China-made guitars to be most consistently flawed, from super inexpensive to around $800. MIK guitars from reputable brands (Squier, Epiphone, PRSSE, Schecter, LTD); Mexico Fenders; &, at the very top, Warmoth are my top choices for hotrodding/customization while keeping quality high & price moderate. I think it's a tragedy that people are wasting money on MIC lookalikes.
As you were talking about Chinese guitars being off spec I was thinking “I can’t imagine PRS being okay with their Chinese guitars being off spec,” then immediately you followed up with “the Chinese made PRS guitars were very close.” I didn’t know you were psychic!
I have an Eastman acoustic guitar and it’s very well built and sounds great.
Me too 🤙🏼
Eastman is a brand and has a brand reputation for quality and they work to protect that brand and have integrity as well as quality control. I agree they make great instruments. I dont think this is what Phil is referring too but tbat is my take on it. Rock on
I have owned several, and inspected dozens, the initial runs of a model are usually higher in quality than the ones that follow just in time to change models etc. 1 out of 4 or 5 was worth owning in my experience.
This is exactly why I always check your reviews before buying new or used gear. Thanks for bringing the truth! Integrity 🤜🤛
I find that chinese made Crafter Guitars are very well made and have excellent quality control and finishing. Crafter was founded the same year as Taylor in 1974.
I bought a Brian Moore I-guitar on 2003. It was supposed to be made in Korea. It came and was from China. The body shape was horrible. The curved edge, the actual arc of the body cut was messed up and clearly damaged but still put through all the finish work and assembly. Sent it back. Korean guitar finally showed up (TY Sweetwater) and looked PERFECT!
I bought a Rogue clone type full bodied acoustic/electric for $50 a few years ago. Spent some time filing the frets smooth, adjusting the action, and replaced the strings. My buddy has a whole collection of expensive guitars and basses. He thought my cheap knockoff sounded as good as his $800 Taylor. I am sure his Taylor would last way longer an be worth way more forever. Maybe I got lucky and got the only good Chinese guitar ever made. Either way, for $50 plus $25 for strings, and
I saw this in the original live stream and glad you've isolated it as it is definitely of interest to many out there (including me) - this matters! I have lived in HK since 1982, recorded in studios in Beijing, Shanghai & Guangzhou and for a few years (1998 - 2005) I set up a subsidiary of my music production house in Shanghai at the request of many ad agency execs who made the move from HK to China in the wake of the 1997 handover - essentially all the multi-nationals (Ogilvy, Burnett, McCanns etc.) moved their 'Greater China Offices' from HK to SHG. So . . . I think it's fair to say I have some insight on how things work up there, for better or worse.
China is late to the game when it comes to manufacturing guitars. Back in the late '70s, early '80s 'there was still a 'Made in Japan' stigma held over from the '60s, but companies like SONY, Toyota et all soon put paid to that and to this day 'international brand' instruments from Japan, particularly Fender often outshine their US made and Mexican made peers and 'local' brands like Ibanez, Yamaha and Yairi still live in an isolated and innovative space - I own guitars from all 3. The same can be said for Korea, I believe, although 'local Korean brands' are not really visible, despite some extremely good manufacturing for 'known brands'.
Indonesia seems to have caught the ball and run with it altho having tried many (and bought 2) SE PRS guitars I still find that the internal wiring is a serious concern - ofter they come out of the box with one or other pick-up not engaging at all - this is not an isolated thing, it's common, sadly.
From what I can see of China currently Eastman is in a different league altogether, although I do wonder how much manufacturing is now done in the US given this recent 'Fenderish' trio they are introducing? Either way the Eastman instruments I have played are, on the whole, superb and this doesn't surprise me given the history of the company making fine orchestral instruments. I will be buying an SB 59/v and the Pomona Blonde Juliet when finances allow - I will stick my neck out and say that I really believe some of the early SB59/v's will, in 20+ years time, become 'mini unicorns' in a similar way to late 50s Gibsons. I believe their decision to partner with the likes of Lollar, Bare Knuckles, Gotoh et al in the areas the company does not have expertise in speaks for itself and shows a commitment to delivering overall quality.
Epiphone is, on paper at least, a subsidiary of Gibson USA and kicked off with senior management and decision makers from 'head office' and has steadily built on quality and, to an extent, innovation. I own 4 Epiphones made in the last few years (Casino, 1959 Epi/Gibson 'hybrid', Cantrell 'Wino' and a solid body Double Cutaway. That said, I bought these with the express purpose of 'modding' them. To date I have installed Lollar P90s / Bone Nut / 50s wiring in the Casino and plan Monty's Bethnal Greens, Lollar Imperials and, possible Bare Knuckles + internal wiring options for the other 3. I was a guitar salesman back in the '70s in NZ in the run-up to going pro as a musician (and now Producer / Studio owner) and those 3 years opened my eyes to how Gibson (in particular) was perfectly capable of shipping guitars that when I inspected them at the warehouse before purchase, had to be sent straight back to Kalamazoo. What I also learned, intuitively I suppose, was that as long as a guitar 'had bones' the name on the headstock did not really matter (hence my Epi purchases - all 4 are terrific in terms of build and playability but I'm not impressed with the pick-ups and internals - not 'bad' per se, but not great).
Having worked with many musicians, studio owners, creative and fashion people and what have you in the 3 main cities over the last 25 years I believe that China definitely has the opportunity to up its game - some companies may emerge as having the quality to stand shoulder to shoulder with US, Japan, Korea - others will, sadly, do what many companies there do - go for a quick killing then move on to something else if short term profits do not last . . . so it goes all over the world when you think about it, n'est-ce pas?
Thanks for your insight and honesty, as always 😃
Last year I bought via eBay a secondhand Guild GAD-50 dreadnought made in China. The guitar was built in 2005, when Fender's ownership of the Guild brand was drawing to a close. The build quality is very impressive and importantly, the intonation is spot-on. The sunburst finish is excellent. I'd very much like to know exactly where the guitar was built, and the story behind Fender's decision to manufacture the GAD series Guilds.
It is extremely frustrating, but one of the reasons for inconsistent and/or poor quality in Chinese manufacturing is that workers are generally being paid for piece work and there is no upside for them to stop and flag problems. Workers will literally package unacceptable parts-even obviously damaged or broken product-rather than stopping or even slowing down production. Short of having a full time dedicated QC manager on site, specifications and quality remain hit or miss.
I can say I’ve never bought a guitar online and for good reasons.. first it’s about the experience of going into a guitar store and picking them up and playing them and finding the one that suits you and your taste of weight and neck profile etc and the overall feel of the guitar.. And also the interaction with people and other musicians.. I’ve found out about local bands that way I never knew about.. pedals on the other hand I can understand online purchases it’s electronic and sometimes a local shop may not carry a brand you’re looking for.. So that being said.. that also coincides with guitar specifications maybe that one that’s slightly different feels better to the player and what they like.. just think when Leo Fender was churning out those 50’s and 60’s teles and strats they were all hand made so not one was exactly alike.. And I actually prefer it that way to make an instrument truly unique.. Great discussion and thoughts Phil as always
I don't disagree with your thinking, but unfortunately that's not always a viable option in today's age. There are fewer and fewer brick and mortar stores around today and many of the ones that are around have a limited selection. Some people live hours and hours away from a store with a decent selection, and even still there are only a few areas that have anywhere close to the selection of an online dealer. That's why it's now a "buy before you try" market and that's why the big guys have such generous return policies. You buy a guitar and if it's not exactly what you want, you send it back for another one, or a refund, until you're happy. And it does have an advantage over the old days. Many smaller brick and mortar dealers don't have a very good return policy, if any. Yes you could try out the guitar before you bought it, but if a couple weeks later you realize it's not exactly what you want, then your SOL. If you buy online and decide its not exactly what you want after a few weeks, you can send it back and not lose a dime. There are brick and mortar stores that do have generous return policies but again not everyone lives near one of them.
If I did that, I'd never be able to get a 6-string bass. I've seen exactly two 5-string basses within an hour of where I am. Heck, I'd never be able to get anything from Ibanez without driving a ridiculous distance. Even big brands have rather minimal showing in local shops. I can find a few Yamahas, a handful of Gibson LPs (never anything else), most of the local stock is Fender, Squire, and Gretsch.
@user-ri3gh6yb5k thats crazy, refusing to place an order for a customer from a brand that you're an authorized dealer for, is basically declining and sale and telling your customers to buy from someone else. There are plenty of dealers that will gladly take your money and order whatever you want.
I think the reason we’re seeing less spec information is because many of these companies have realised that we’ll buy the guitars anyway.. I don’t think it’s for fear of internet reviewer comparisons or mistakes. Plus those of us who do purchases online, there will only be a very small number who go thru the challenges of returning an item, it’s a massive pain. Also. While it’s illegal in most western countries, I also see companies stating requirements for ‘restocking’ fees, so watch out for that!
It’s mainly so they can change the spec (I.e. supplier or fundamental material changes) if something cheaper comes up.
Yes that's definitely part of it. People that buy the guitars that are being talked about are buying them because they're cheap and they're copied designs of more expensive guitars. They're not buying that guitar because it says its made of mahogany, they're buying it because it's cheaper than an Epiphone. But they also allow the manufacturers to swap out materials, specs, whatever else that is necessary to keep production going at the agreed upon proce point.
I returned a bass just a couple weeks ago. It was super easy. Just gotta deal with reputable dealers.
As for restocking fees, I don't see the issue. Unless there is a problem with the instrument, then it's not their fault I no longer want the product. The way I see it is you are paying for the labor and other costs involved in both originally shipping and now receiving the item.
@@Vykk_Draygo was it from a dealer like sweet water or similar? I guess I’m referring more to the direct manufacturer sales that were sawing more and more of. They’re generally not as well schooled in logistics. Aside of that, the restocking fee is not legal in most countries.
Hey Phil, love your contents that you put out. Good to see the 2nd channel pumping out highlights from the pod. Please, do keep up:)
Been playing guitar for 53 years now and took a gamble getting this Gibson ES 335 copy made by Best Choice Products for $139 online. I was actually quite impressed, the action and intonation was right on. The only thing I did was change the strings and raised the pickups.
My friend bought a brand new Gibson SG from Guitar Center and the nut was cut waaay off. I have read places like Sweetwater check their guitars with a fine tooth comb.
I bought a PRS SE that had a quite bad neck deformity right out of the box. I sent it back to Sweetwater, and they very promptly sent me a replacement, but that guitar had multiple problems. Granted, none were as bad as the horrible neck on the first, but bad enough that I sent that one back too. I just ended up saying screw it and had them send me a gorgeous, amazing Gibson USA Les Paul Standard that was perfect. Left me with a very bad anecdotal impression of Indonesian guitars. I had an Eastwood/Airline Tuxedo, made in Korea, that was really good, though. It’s just a crap shoot out there, I think.
This is why I generally treat Chines specs like something akin to creative writing. Phil the truth-teller...
I am a product design engineer in the USA. Management has decided that in the interest of efficiency and lowering costs globally, all corporate purchasing and reimbursement will be filtered thru TWO third party companies in India. These two companies love to source our components in India and China. Our experience with Indian and Chinese suppliers is that delivered quality tends to gather at the low end of the scale. We've ordered parts with specific alloy specs that show up machined from mystery metal. The part might be cast from the specified polymer for the initial first article inspection run but then the supplier 'suggests' a substitution and tells us - "You Like!" and it's crap. However, among the shady fly by night Asian vendors are a few gems that act professionally, but you pay for them to deliver to specification. These vendors can deliver top quality, but they're also hard to find and retain.
Living in the UK I'm not hampered by the 'America is best' mentality. For me most guitars are imports and i like to think I can be impartial but I have to say I'm finding many of the comments to this video amusing if unsurprising. I recognise that your comments were measured and factual towards a certain sector of Chinese manufacturing (it certainly wouldn't apply to companies like Eastman) but all a worrying percentage of your viewers are going to take from it is "see I was right all along, even Phil says Chinese guitars are crap' (note I also recognise you wasn't saying they are crap, just not to spec).What I find really amusing though is that you are honest enough to say that American guitars are the second worst, a fact that a lot of commentators chose to ignore. I'm fortunate that I don't have to feel guilty about not supporting the US economy so I can get fantastic quality guitars from Korea, Indonesia and Japan knowing I've saved a load of money and got a better product. 😂
Just like a brit, stuck up and think you're better than others
Eastman is a notable exception.
I just acquired a Kepma OM guitar. On a whim. They make and sell 20,000 guitars a MONTH in China, India, Asia. Plek aged. All solid. Actuator Chorus system. Great hardware. Great finish. Made mostly by robots. MSRP: $1,000. Bought used for $600. I've played EVERY acoustic brand, vintage wanna-have, etc., under the sun. Say what one will about the Chinese "market", this Kepma shows how easy it can be for them to make a VERY good guitar en masse. This guitar is excellent. Eadtmans aren't bad either.
I've played some Kepma at a store in Beijing that seemed to be an official stockist for the brand. The staff showed me a video with the CNC machines at the factory etc. However, I felt they were overbuilt, hardly felt as if it was made of wood. The tone was also too clean and bright for my tastes compared to an Eastman (I own two). I can see a market for Kepma though, similar to how Takamine got their reputation. Workhorses for the professional guitarist playing covers of pop ballads as background music in a bar, plugged into a PA system. That more or less is what "live music" means for 90% of China, outside of the more niche underground scenes of the big cities or blues bands in expat bars etc.
Enya guitars is another Chinese brand that pops up in review channels on Bilibili (Chinese version of UA-cam). They sound a bit better to my ears, again on the sweeter side though. Better suited for finger style than strumming maybe ?
THis is a really interesting analysis with some good perspectives. It's interesting to know that you don't always get what you pay for. As a side note, I've dabbled in guitar for a long time, but last year I decided to learn viola. I was short on cash so I started with a $100 unit from a basically unknown Chinese brand, and I have been astounded by how happy I am with it for the price. It sounds good enough to keep me excited about playing, and it even stays in tune in the case most of the time.
I've had good luck with MIK guitars over the years. I still have and play my first real guitar which is an LTD explorer. I don't think I've ever had to adjust the truss rod on that thing in 21 years and it still plays great.
In my experience you can get good guitars manufactured in any country but the best or most consistently good ones are made in Japan maybe followed by made in USA (excluding Gibson). But I also got a flawless Squier made in China and I played good Ibanez guitars made in Indonesia.
"Everything on the internet becomes politicized". Good to hear you are apolitical, and your presentations show it.
Old caveats “ You get what you pay for “ or “ Buyer beware” and “ If someone offers to sell you a $10 bill for $5 do you think someone is amiss?”
My slope shoulder Eastman is better feeling and sounding to me that a Taylor 714. The Eastman T-185 electric is a hollow body solid woods beautiful looking and my go to electric. Eastman is very good. Quality
Eastman is VERY good quality. Go look Fender...
Eastman is a rare exception to the rule.
@@qua7771 Thanks. I own an Eastman E1D, the cheapest guitar they make that's all solid wood (Sapele back/sides, spruce top) and having owned a 1956 J-45, I prefer the Eastman. It doesn't sound like a D-18, even though it's basically a copy of a D-18 with a shallower body. It's easy to play, sounds WAY better than its price, and it has a sound all its own. ANYBODY can make a good $10,000.00 guitar. But Eastman is one of the only companies that makes a great $600 guitar!
Yamaha drums made in China are very highly regarded as well. But of course Yamaha is a powerful company
@@samk4801 I think the reason is obvious. An American production facility is stupid expensive for the same process. The Eastman factory must have someone overseeing their quality.
Yes, and it makes sense re: Chinese guitars. These imported guitar have really upgraded their quality at the entry price point. Over my 5+ decades of playing I've owned every major guitar brand, and I do my own tech work. If you can do basic setup work you will not go wrong (on average) with an import guitar. I never buy a guitar with the thought process of I'll mod this or that. I mod what is necessary to make it a quality player. For example, many of the locking tuners on an import don't turn or move properly. In everyone I've had an issue with I simply unscrew the locking portion and deposit a drop of good quality lubricant (not WD 40). Everyone of those turners then worked as well as any $125+ set on the market. The Trem systems are normally cheaper, but here's the thing if you are a beginner it's fine. If you want something better, there several S/S trems aftermarket for under $60 that will simply slide in the existing cavity. Electronics = tone, and tone is subjective. Some electronic are gig ready and some may need work, but again if you are a beginner they are fine.
Truth bombs people can’t handle. Thanks for your honesty and hard work
If I had two clay bricks and one was made in China, the other in Japan, would it suprise you to discover the Japanese ones were uniform and exactly to specs, while the Chinese ones (which cost a lot less) varied from one to the next?
@@metalfatigue no
My Ibanez RG, made in Korea in 2006, officially says it has rosewood fretboard, but honestly, it looks more like macassar ebony…it’s very dark, and also feels different, more slick, under fingers…I have other guitars with rosewood fretboard and it does feel different…then again, this guitar was made just a few months before the famous Cort Korea protests due to workers being unpaid, so I guess there were some bigger problems going on there than caring which wood goes on which guitar.
Is there much difference between an rosewood or ebony fingerboard? It would not be a major concern to me.
@@raymonddixon7603 Rosewood is softer and more porous.
It is not as slick as Ebony either.
I like Rosewood, but I like Ebony better.
I seem to play smoother and faster with Ebony than I do with Rosewood.
All of the classical instruments (violin, viola, etc.) have Ebony fingerboards.
@@beatlesrgear Would not be any concern to me either way. I have played both.
Just checked my three acoustic instruments, tatay classical, a maccaferri copy and a Richwood acoustic. They are all rosewood as it happens, but I had to check!!
I have emailed several brands about their spec being off, or add copy that is incorrect, and in most cases they emailed back. Indio by mono price is one. Grote is another.
A couple I never heard back from were firefly, despite having major issues, and Epiphone. I gave up on trying to communicate with them after three tries.
I have a £220 made in Indonesia Epiphone Les Paul studio E1 Ebony and it's a great guitar.
It was rather plain looking from the factory, but I'm changing some of the hardware which makes it look a lot more interesting and far less plain. It feels great to play; it feels so easy to play.
I'm really glad what I was sent was one made in Indonesia. The website listing says 'made in South Korea / Indonesia / China / Vietnam'.
The guitar I've had since my teenage years is a Japanese 1994 Squier strat HSS and it's a good quality guitar
"There's gotta be someone out there who's that neurotic." We owe so much to the OCD blessed among us.
I picked up an Epiphone Slash goldtop with Custombucker's for $799.00 and it is the best Les Paul I have ever played.
Most of almost anything we currently buy is made in China. The Chinese can make anything you want, at almost any quality level, pretty much every major brand, whether musical instruments, cars, motorcycles, printers has their products made in China, even prestige brands use chinese components, although the final product may be assembled in the USA, or the EU. Is anyone querying the quality of iphones? no. The issue with the chinese is the minute your back is turned they tend to change things to save money/increase profit, so in the case of guitars, they'll substitute different woods or electronics, or even fretwire. The way to get around this is to have your own quality control people in the manufacturing facility, as almost all major brands do. Without that oversight the product will vary from the original design brief or specification. Exactly he same issues arise with manufacturing in India, turn your back and your motorcycle Bosch fuel injection will be substituted with some counterfeit local equipment (badged as Bosch) the smaller BMW motorcycles are made in India and you can bet your a** that BMW are watching things like a hawk, it's their brand they need to protect.
I have a new Jet JS300 Strat clone and the build quality is UNBELIEVABLY GOOD!
Yeah, for specs these days you get stuff like: HSS ST-type. Body: wood. Neck: wood. Nut: yes. Frets: yes. Box dimensions... Shipping weight.... "Very good for muicality"
Thank you for addressing the Chinese manufacturer issue. It's brave of you to do so.
Two days ago, I was looking online at a really beautiful guitar for a price I can easily afford and would happily pay in order to own and experience a different style/brand of guitar. Then I saw the "Made in China" stamp on the back of the headstock. That photo reminded me of the tainted paints on Christmas toys imported from China a decade ago. I forced myself to close their webpage! How could I buy a guitar (even at 5/8 the price I'd already prepared to pay) which I'd handle & playing repeatedly over a long period of time from a country which sees no problem in using poisonous paint on kid's Christmas toys?
China as an exporter to the US has zero integrity toward the American consumer. A different large guitar company has already lost my business due to a couple of lackluster experiences. Frankly, I hated to even look at some of their alternate brand guitars...before seeing the China stamp on the headstock.
Your video has cemented my "China guitar" wariness by explaining that what I see/read from some brands is not necessarily the spec/measurements I'd be receiving from their manufacturing affiliates. Thank you for taking the hard stance and calling a spade a spade. It informs the rest of us and also confirms your credibility.
I'd be interested in your take on Korean made Epiphone Led Puals compared to the Chinese made versions. I am specifically looking at 56 Led Paul Goldtop with P90s that is Korean made. It "seems" to be very well built and a bit heavier than the Chinese version made later. Bear in mind I replace all electronics in my Epiphones with Seymour Duncan pickups, Bourns pots and Orange drop capacitors, the switches, plugs and vintage Gibson wiring.
I love this video. I look at the new stuff from China with the attitude that if I find a beautiful instrument like a fake-fender with a paint job I love, I can buy the tuners and single coil frets for under $400 and be in the range of a Fender Am Ultra... another $150 for a neck keeping only the body and you could save enough to make three nice guitars by adding in the factory hardware.
I remember when I wanted to learn to play 30 years ago. I had no idea what guitar prices were. Of course I had heard of fender/Gibson/Paul Reed Smith/ibanez etc. luckily I had a friend that played guitar and he steered my to a Mexican Tele as a starer guitar. It was what I learned on and still own to this day. It's nice to have budget options.
A friend of mine once said to a ‘guitar snob’ : “ so, would you rather have a guitar made in Mexico by Mexicans or a guitar made in California by Mexicans? “.
Mexican and US factories only 25 mi apart. Have 72 re issue Strat best I've found in every way!
Phillip, it seems like your excellent content has led to solid credibility and that in turn leads to even better content. This video is eight minutes of content gold, extremely engaging and informative with zero fluff. Keep on rockin"!
If I had two clay bricks and one was made in China, the other in Japan, would it suprise you to discover the Japanese ones were uniform and exactly to specs, while the Chinese ones (which cost a lot less) varied from one to the next?
He didn’t say Chinese guitars are bad. Watch the video again. He also didn’t say USA guitars are better.
Sure, bud. Sure.
US guitars are better in general . Japanese just as good probably better . As far as import tier guitars (I don’t consider Japanese as ‘import tier’) go , Korea (World Music ) is by far superior.
You really changed firefly. I have seen three different models from the last couple of months and the qc on those products was actually mind blowing, on par with epi with the exception of pickups.
I have noticed nut widths and string spacing are almost always wrong. Even scale length is often wrong.
On the wall behind you is a Parker. I wasn't a fan of it's piezo pickup but I loved the design of the guitar: fiberglass fretboard and stainless steel pickups; neck-through-body; ultra-thin concave body; thin neck and a wicked headstock. I tried one out at a music store in Birmingham, Alabama. They said Joe Walsh was in town and had bought one. I don't know if he ever played it on stage. Did you ever review this guitar?
The specification mismatch is also because the companies just copy specifications from someone else’s catalogue/website and just publishes that as the specs. The guitar is not necessarily off speck, the write-up is. Or the specs might have been accurate for the previous batch.
And if they churn out guitars with whatever parts they get their hands on, not publishing any detail is just easier.
How does this apply to Thomann's Harley Benton branded guitars? Does Thomann insist that all of their Chinese made guitars hold to specs??
What I don't undesrtand is why Squier can't make as many colors and variations of their guitars as Glarry or many of the other brands that make Strat and Tele copies. All the others offer maple fretboards on every color and offer many more colors and some have matching headstocks. Some have more pickup combinations, hardware choices like tremolos or hardtails, Squier gives two or three? Step it up Squier, the competition is smoking you in the variety field!
what phil is leaving out is the wood dont mean anything to the sound because the tone glue that holds the 3 to 10 pieces of wood together, and that glue stops the vibrations. right? glue turns to plastic, basically right? good vibs man
Phil is a legend!
In EVERY1'S mind! \m/
My early Chinese Squier classic vibe 50's Telecaster and 60's Stratocaster guitars are very much up to the specs to the original fender U.S.A. models. I don't know about the ones where the Chinese manufacturing places were changed.But the ones I have sre extremely well built.The only different is where the trust rod is located and the logo on the head stock. The good Squier Chinese models have the Fender logo in script below the Squier gold logo.
I just got the Kramer assault figured and it has a handcrafted in china label on it
I had just got a assault plus made in Indonesia and only had it 3 days and the headstock snapped off at the high E string when i unlocked it for tuning
Sweetwater didn't have any more so they gave me the figured for the same price
The quality so far seems better than the Indonesian version to me
Chinese parts are usually far out of spec because they often times acquire used die's and molds for what was at one time premium named brand parts. This is why you'll find these things are nearly exact clones of premium products from a few years ago. They get hold of this specialized manufacturing equipment after the major producers sunset an old product line and design a new updated product and then let the licensing expire. But because these die's, molds, and forms are old they are often worn out and out of spec to where the tolerances are off by a margin of many factors. But because the clones are so cheap you can buy five or even ten of them for the price of what was one of the original product's prices. Odds are that at least one or two of the lot you purchase will manage to land somewhere within the intended bell curve of allowable tolerances just by chance.
The chinese approach to manufacturing is somewhat pragmatic. Everything is built to turn a profit. It a thing is off spec but sells then fair enough. There is not really a culture of excellence in the same way Japan does things. It is the same with Indian pharmaceuticals. They keep the good stuff for their domestic market and what they export is often the bare minimum standard that will sell. Once the product is on the container ship it largely ceases to be their problem. A lot of countries take this approach.
They say its 3 inches when its really 2 1/2......
I think i might be part chinese.
When it comes to integrity and honesty in the Internet space, you remain without equal Philip. If you ever sold out you would break my heart 😆
So true!
Honestly I don’t care if China copies the best of USA manufacturing and does it for 1/10th the price. I understand the current landscape of geopolitics, and I’m American. In other words - I’m not buying *anything* from China if I can help it.
I'll go Korean, even Indonesia
Ah..so Honorable
They aren’t copying it though - like… you aren’t getting a 1 to 1 copy. Chinese manufacturing is full of short cuts. So if the quality is sufficient - then that’s great. But you aren’t getting the same thing as a US guitar for 1/10th the cost.
I also guarantee you there is some water supply, ecosystem or Forrest getting reamed for that guitar.
My man!!! That’s what’s up!
@@zoeherriotkeep telling yourself that.
I recently had that experience with a Donner LP copy. It was on sale for the ridiculous price of $70 (after a couple of discounts), so I searched for reviews and found nothing but praise from a dozen or so different reviewers. It was supposed to be fully set up and ready to play. The one they sent me had loose strings, so that's lie number one. upon tightening the strings, the neck was severely bowed and a bit warpy. After dealing with getting it playable, I started working on the fret ends which were all scratchy. I found that the fret material was super soft, unbelievably cheap metal, and the binding as well was more akin to chalk than anything else. I checked the intonation, and the High E is still flat with the saddle fully cranked down.
At that point I shoved it in the closet although I was tempted to take it out on the sidewalk and smash the hell out of it.
I figured I might as well get some pleasure out of it by abusing it slowly before turning it into a rat axe. I left comments on every reviewer I could find about what a $#!+ gweetah it really is.
they may be off spec, but are they consistent. If it says the nut width is a, but it is consistently b that isn't as bad as the nut width being all over the place.
I typically don’t purchase Chinese made instruments but recently acquired a Gold Tone ob-3 banjo. It’s made in china but would match American made . It is considerably expensive for a overseas made instrument though.
What is your experience with Eastman? I have a om20 and I love it. They are supposed to be hand made.
I really don't care. I've saved thousands of dollars on Chinese guitars. CNC machines don't care if they're on the main land or off shore. I've gotten guitars in perfect shape and ones that needed upgrading (tuners, nut, etc.). No big deal. Still saving money. I really don't obsess on specs. Does it play? Does it sound good? Can I afford it? Those are my main concerns. Not brand name or country of origin.
not about whats country made , more like the brand how they operate, some honest , some shady like just want quick money , lot of small brand people never heard of ,because they dont care the reputation, just stick a new brand on headstock do it all over again , lot of brand didnt own a guitar factory, they send the design and spec to those guitar manufacturers , manufacturers simply take the order , how the product description honest or not all depend on the brand .
Exactly. My first guitar is a Mexican tele and I've had it 25 yrs with not mods. Sounds and plays great. I got a used squire stat, slapped some Texas specials in it, and it still sounded like shart. Anything bought from overseas is a crap shoot. Rock on
God bless Phillip McKnight. Thank you for ...... EVERYTHING!!!
I would actually point to the "specs" themselves in terms of what tolerances the brand company puts in their orders. The cut in price has to come from somewhere.. it's precision. If they order a guitar with a 25" scale length... +/- 1.5" - you might get it at 1/10 the price but you're not getting a consistent product and you're almost definitely never going to be dead on spec.
I bought a FuManChu body from a Chinese seller two years ago. It was sold as a Jaguar body...it was a Jazzmaster.
Talk about frustration... Never having owned a Jag all the parts I ordered, including the neck, were wrong.
The seller said "too bad for you".
Next I bought a real Jag style body from Saylor guitars in Oregon... could not be happier.
I also bought a couple Chinese necks ... specs were way off. The seller said they can't make necks to Fender specs because of patents..
when did that ever prevent any Chinese product from being a near perfect copy of a western design.
Phil, you’re not wrong. I observed years ago that manufacturers were changing models of electronics faster than Consumer Reports could review them, so much so that a reviewed product was no longer available when the report was published. The pace seemed to change and I don’t think it because newer models would sell better. It appeared to me, perhaps cynically, it simply was better for sales to not be pinned down by reviews.
The guitars on the wall look like they're at an angle rather than perpendicular to the ground. That is messing up my mind. Is it an optical illusion or are they really all at an angle?
My Eastman AC-622 is outstanding. The Taylor version would cost over 4 G’s
To each their own. I would rather spend double, get a high quality guitar and keep American's working. What do you think Eastman would charge if their product dumping put their American competition out of business..?
@@rosewoodsteel6656 nah Skooter I’m not paying double for anything.
As I said, to each their own. When Chinese dumping puts Martin, Taylor etc., out of business, Chinese guitars will be priced higher than their former (American and Canadian) competitors. But hey, we saved a few bucks today, didn't we?
@@rosewoodsteel6656 nah Skooter it wasn’t cheap but it was half the price of my Taylor and it’s way btr.
Skooter?
Hope you enjoy your new guitar, Skwid.@@Skwid-Lives
I have a prs se and a faith venus. Both and made in Indonesia and I think that might be the holy grail of price vs quality control.
Enjoyed this video as well as your other ones. Not terribly surprised by your findings. I do have a question: What has been your findings with the Epiphone Artist series guitars? Does having the artists name directly associated with the guitar (Joe Bonamassa, BB King, Slash to name a few) result in a higher quality and "in spec" guitar?? Supposedly, Gibson/Epiphone directly manage their Qingdao factory that was opened in 2006. Are we getting a "better" guitar. Your thoughts please? Thanks, Bryan
I recently purchased a 2001 Squire telecaster made in indonesia, near perfect shape. After a fret level, did myself, I am very pleased with the quality build. I agree Indonesia are better guitars than most over seas manufacturers.
As far as I'm concerned made in Japan and made in Korea license the guitars are the best bang for the buck. You get one of these with 20-year-old wood that's been firmed up and not going to break the headstock off because you're just tuning it to pitch is your best bet. I have an Epiphone flying v from Korea and it rocks like a mofo. I'll take that over the unfinished flying V's made in America for two grand. Hell no. Made in Indonesia is also awesome. Made in Japan is super fantastic because you get real quality wood and expert craftsmanship. And that respect who cares if it says made in USA.
I have no respect for made in China. I don't care if it's my socks or an Epiphone. The lack of quality control is pathetic.
My Guess is that most of this is due to communications between Marketing and the Factory. Marketing gets the specs a few months before release date they make up their marketing sheets meanwhile the factory had to make a change and never notified marketing. Once Marketing does find out via customers it is too late as they are on to another product.
Thank you for great video. Very interesting.
Do you have any overarching view on playability or the overall quality of “those” instruments? That would have been interesting to hear.
I mean a crappy or a low cost guitar can still be decent despite that the specs are off.
I agree with you that obtaining reliable specs on guitars that interest me is often difficult. I have more guitars than I need perhaps, but being older I am ready to weed out some that have not thrilled me for various reasons and keep the good ones. I have ordered two budget priced Chinese made models and one, an LP style is beautiful, but what was supposed to be a mahogany body and neck are a rather unstable species of unknown variety. The other, a Tele style made in Indonesia and marketed by a German instrument seller is fantastic. Hit or miss I suppose.