@@77professional lmaooo. Listen, you can just put more armor on it! More armor and a couple IS PPCs or something so the weapons are easier to source. EZ
Speaking of clan mechs a few tons too heavy, Mad Cat II... seriously as an 85t she'd have 1t more free tonnage with the same equipment and armor as the 90t version. It's why I made an Omni-mech version of it at 85t, that turned out to be super savage when used.
The last one feels like someone in the scientist caste trying to deal with their warrior master's prejudice against using something sensible like a scout vtol and making something far worse and far more expensive. Perhaps just to spite them.
Clan LRMs have no minimum range.. hence Clan LRM are absolutely close range weapons. Never understand why people say "this clan mech with clan lrm has no close range firepower"
@@riptors9777 which one are you referring to? Like a clan mech with lots of close range firepower to me is one with say... 4 SRM 6, or 4 medium lasers of some variety. Or 6-8 small lasers of some kind. Or a couple big ACs. Or a handful of heavy lasers.
@@topcatcoast2coast579 hey at least a jagermech is cheap. In fact for cbill cost I could have a *company* of Jagers for whay some of these things cost. And a lance for the BV
@Magermh does not matter unless it is acualy impossible to hit you only have to get lucky once against the hussar. It is a nearly useless mech do not get me wrong the idea of a fast sniper has some appeal but it just does not measure up not enough armor and not enough range. The hussar is close to the worst mech in the game if not the worst. The versions with an er large laser are a lot less bad but still suck at least the have the range to be mostly safe from return fire. The down grades with a standerd large laser are bloody useless.
Me as a Nova Cat player "ok who put the TSEMP on the Shadow Cat so we made this list ?" Sighs in Arbalest , Ocelot , Morrigan , Nova Cat , SuperNova and other Clan Nova Cat glories
On the Hellbringer just using the 2 pointless tons wasted on A-Pods to give it some more armour would make it far more viable, instead you've got a 65 ton design that's as fragile as a 40 tonner.
@@sharlin648 exactly. Just strip off all the anti-infantry stuff and replace with armor. Boom, great sniper mech. (Ok it probably needs a few more heat sinks too lol.)
I'd say keep the MG's, and HS as they are, because the Hellbie is basically a 'super-Warhammer' and you want to keep the feel of it, like the warhammer choosing firepower over protection and cooling, But 2 tons of armour would help fix its most glaring faults without optimizing it. Its the same with the Summoner, that thing has crit space for days on all its configs, so if you gave it endo and changed nothing else you could fix its ammo problems in most configs. The big thing you want to avoid though is over-optimization. Because then you run the risk of making everything a Black Python, IE a large pulse laser/Targetting computer combo monster. And they're no fun to face. So keep some flaws and issues with them, but fix the most 'why the bloody hell is it like that?' aspects.
@sharlin648 i never got MGs as backups on mechs. Like why even bother if u have 1 or 2? Bring like 4 so u can actually make use of that ungodly amount of ammo.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Yeah, their problem is the absurdly short range, because if you're in range to use them against PBI's then they're able to shoot back at you. And yeah like drop it to half a ton of ammo. Or if your friends allow you, do the optional firing mode for MG's, you fire D6 shots and treat it like a SRM with each shot hitting a different area but use 2D6 ammo.
The Caveat of the Ryoken IIIs is that between the interface cockpit (-1 to both gunnery and piloting) and what the pilot needs to have interface with said cockpit (cross refferencing multiple over complicated Interstellar Operations pain shunts or something) does explain why it's such high BV, but that on-top of the TSEMP tax is- yeeesh That being said, I do wanna try it out just once just to see *how* overcosted it is, assuming I'm using all of the experimental int Ops jank
@@Andrewlik i just think its too big of an investment for something that is gonna die super fast. Ferro-lam is good but not good enough to cover its underwhelming armor pips. Some of the other Skinwalkers are *ok* but still pricey.
Seriously though that thing is not meant to be used in a regular tournament scenario, but rather as a story unit. It's like the society 'Mechs or some blakist horrors horrors that are meant to be individually weird to the regular opponent.
The Dasher D is a menace. I can see this little guy beating more than its value worth of enemy mechs, and quickly too if it fishes for enemy mechs with weak rear armor. I've also run the Hellbringer a bunch and I love the primary config as an EW resource. If you position well, the enemy wou't make it past your star to get to you.
@@jonbezeau3124 Agree to disagree... I will take 2 crappy shadowhawks over a Dasher D any day. They dont die to a single pulse laser at least. The problem with ewar on a sniper is you want the ewar *with your front line.* they are the ones who will be using sensors to spot stuff and ECM to jam out Artemis missiles.
@TheManyVoicesVA what phase does detection work in? I advance the Hellbringer from behind first, and then move the starmates ahead of it. If I detect a hidden unit all of my tougher guys can immediately move to counter.
@jonbezeau3124 I actually dont know. Sensors in Battletech are *very* weird. I have to read the rules again but I think it's during movement as you say.
As someone who only ever chooses mechs based on what does and doesn't look stupid I approve this list. Except the Shadowcat. She is still too pretty to be here, I don't care how dumb the variant might be.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say a kind word about the TSEMP. And I certainly won't be the first. Why you would ever take a TSEMP over a Plasma Cannon, a Plasma Rifle, or the great and mighty Snub-Nose PPC is beyond me.
For the Adder, each PPC Capacitor adds 5 heat and 5 dmg, so it is meant to fire an ERPPC each round at long ranges with 0 heat accumutated. If both are used with the capacitors enabled and running, it will go up to 42 heat. The Coolant Pod will bring it down to 9 heat for that one time. Make sure when both are fired that you have good To-Hit numbers so they don't miss.
@@Daishi85 that ain't it, chief. Capacitors produce heat while charging. So when you charge 1, fire the other charged, it produces 25 heat. That makes this mech heat up, even when standing still. I prefer the other adder. 15 damage is plenty and it has a healthy 2-1-2 firing pattern. Ill take 2 ERPPCs every other turn rather than 1 less accurate more powerful ERPPC every turn(with a cool off turn every few turns with no capacitors on.) Plus capacitors explode. Yuck.
@@Daishi85 ive messed with them a bit. I tried an energy boat with 2 LPPCs with capacitors in a campaign and I didnt put enough heat sinks in it. 10 heat on the turn you charge them and fire your backup lasers is *alot* lol.
5:40 the Skinwalker also uses an Interface Cockpit, which removes the Gyro. IIRC this is one of the most BV expensive changes you can make to a mech in the game. It multiplies BV 1.3 just for having one.
What kind of wild journey have you set us on commander? Last time your hecklers and I set out to make the most expensive (BV) units. I came up with a 4 TSEMP and Hyper Laser 100 ton monstrosity that got up to 8900 BV with a 3/4 pilot. Some one else got over 9000 with a similar build. I want to play these mechs. The other high BV mechs are impractical but terrifying, think the Bounty Hunter's Marauder II (3767 BV) or the Shrike 3 (3698 BV). Instead I'm going to play a boss monster with a bunch of mech tasers and 24 damage er large lasers.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Agreed. there is a RISC TSEMP that can be fired every turn. Going to make my players fight against something stupid like a 150 ton tripod with that and a Sniper Artillery cannon.
How do you figure protomechs were a waste? Two points for the resources of a single mech point and you are using aerospace pilots, who you aren't using under zell and aren't as controlled as mechwarriors. And in that a failed aerospace pilot is going to be desperate to prove themselves, and they are the perfect filler for your crippled touman.
@TheManyVoicesVA You are supposed to be throwing 5 of them out for every mech the other guy has (or one to one for BA), and you aren't wasting your limited mechwarriors to do it. Grabbing the Gorgon at random, for 1.5k BV (or the resources of a 40t mech) you get 50 LRM tubes if you bring a point of them. The 2 jumps and has a medium pulse laser and the 3 is 5/8 with 8 SRM tubes at the same price point. Even the proof of concept 2t ones make more sense when you are comparing them directly to BA (and remember the pilots were disposable trash as far as the Clans were concerned).
@@135forte ya they're ok. Id usually just rather have Elementals. Ive never used protos but have fought them twice. The optimized ones seem pretty nice, like the 7 jumpers. But they dont really do much damage. It isnt like BA where leg attacks and massed flamers are both scary. Or a cheap light that can jump behind you and kick you for a knockdown check. If protos go for melee they are gonna get kicked and die lol.
@TheManyVoicesVA You aren't looking at from an Clanner pov. It you be acceptable to match a point of five Elementals with a point of five protomechs, and no point of Elementals is going to beat a five ER mediums that move 5/8/5. The reason why the Horses kept them was because they realized how useful they are as super heavy Elementals, which is part of why their ultraheavy proto was built to have elemental pilots.
@@TheManyVoicesVAKeep in mind even something like a Roc with an ER Medium, Heavy Medium, or MPL can easily swarm others and get behind them, allowing for critchecks pretty conveniently. They're pretty nice on built up maps and as a way to force the enemy to focus 1/2 a locust in BV.
I'd like to add the Howler to this list. Light fire support isn't bad, especially with clan LRMs, but it overall doesn't have enough weapons to justify bringing it over alot of the other light mech options.
@@Barga6464 it was considered and I could actually see a use case for it. LRM support for a light Star. It's also at least really cheap so if you buy it, it might actually make its BV back if it hides or kites well.
The Skinwalker you gave was the prototype version. The TSM was removed from production models and none of the configs have a TSEMP. The C production is close to the prototype version, using a Plasma Rifle and two tons of ammo and only 4 ER Mediums (only the ATM 9 is untouched), it is still toasty with only 12 DHS. The C's BV is only 3175. The TSM was removed from the production due to the test pilots aversion to physical warfare. I suspect this is less to do with Clanners aversion to physical attacks and more to the interface cockpit allowing for pilots to 'feel' the blows they give as well as receive. I think one of the main reasons both have such high BV when compared to similar weight designs is the removal of the gyro, clearing a vulnerabilty, tonnage, and critical space. For the Ostscout IIC, there is only the IS version for both the Bloodhound Active Probe and Angel ECM suite (why some list these with special designators, I don't know). Aside from the Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox creating the Clan version of the RAC, most Clan tech doesn't try to copy IS weapons or specialized equipment.
Clan ER PPC w/ Cap only generates 20 heat total, so chain firing them while at a run is only gonna put out 22 heat total. So long as no one is slinging Plasma, Infernos, or Flamers around, you're fine. Also means that every single shot from it that hits is going to generate a PSR on the target which makes it a nasty little bastard for putting targets out of the fight for a turn. Coolant pod is presumably for situations where you need to fire both PPCs to take down something that's threatening you that you cannot get help with, since that punches you to 44 cooling for 1 turn, more than enough to handle the 42 heat the mech would generate on the run firing both weapons.
@@tetsatou2815 capacitors produce 5 heat while charging and/or maintaining a charge, the only time they dont produce heat is when they are off completely. They are also explosive which is... not fun. So the 2 capacitors produce 10, and the PPC itself 15, for 25 per turn plus movement heat. It's not unmanageable, but I think I prefer the 2-1-2 of the Prime with the TC making them more accurate. 15 damage is still plenty. (I still am not bringing either of these voluntarily. They are way too expensive for a squishy undersinked sniper)
Executioner-B A is Pretty Decent at least It costs a mere 2194 BV, the lowest price for the chassis, and carries 2 UAC-10s and 2 LBX-10s (and 2 er small lasers). Thats pretty decent for the cost. Armor distribution still as weird as normal but it's not a rip-off and doesn't overheat itself wildly
@@Andrewlik that seems aight. Lots of 10 damage weapons on an assault is pretty ok. 12 range means it might not be very good at maintaining med range tho.
@@reduran9708 the problem is that the enemy will be engaging your other units far before this slow SoB makes it into medium range. Clan line mechs average 5/8. With objectives on the table, you usually dont have time to wait for the slow guy.
@@TheManyVoicesVA that's true, although that's more of a problem of heavier mechs as a whole. I guess the way you should play units like these more around the terrain
@@reduran9708 ya I guess those 2 JJs can actually be helpful if theres like... a hill with heavy woods or something. But that is still gonna be slow going hahaha
Jager with percision autocannon is legit for the bv, but agree with a lot in this. I take the Lobo 2 in a jihad wolf "not sweaty" list, mainly as it has early access to dual plasma cannons. It's fun, but it's a handicap for sure- intentionally so I don't wreck people in a friendly lol ~ Pirate
@@toumanihon641 hahaha it is a very piratey mech. Has lots of tricks up its sleeve. It is very pricey for what u get tho. Gimme a Timby S with infernos instead if I want a heat pressure mech.
Jump 2 seems like a roman gladiator movement profile. JUST jump over a mech's head then unload as many small lasers (I'm laser biased) into something's back as possible.
Fire Moth D is one of the reasons I'm pissed that MegaMek removed the wonderful "geometric mean BV" system, since under those rules the D variant comes out to 1336 BV. Much more reasonable for what it can do. Heck, the entire Hellbringer line becomes far more reasonable to bring. I mean, 1811 for the G, 1892 for the C, 1732 for the F? Bit more reasonable. And hey, I resent protomechs being a waste. They're super fun, and if the bad ones aren't taken (there's a lot of them, granted), they can be incredibly useful and hard to fully destroy. Heck, units like the Satyr are great for sniffing out hidden units or running recon missions, since you can basically flood the board with LAPs for cheap, and when they get together that's a lot of ERSL firepower.
I always regarded the Fire moth (dasher) and variants as little more than the Mech equivelent of an Ghost bear APC for Elementals. (Yeah, i know it appears in one or two other clans) If you fit it with a bunch of heavy lasers in small or medium variants, it can punch about its weight and run away. But i think the video misses the point of Omnimechs, the fact you can change the loadout.
@@spodula im aware lol. Some of these have no good loadouts. The Dasher is specifically one of the few that has useful loadouts. The H and a few others are solid.
@@TheManyVoicesVA They suffer from tournaments having a human hour time limit. I think they could win the game of attrition between jump 7 and the chance for a hit to miss anyway due to the location table, but if that would take 4 hours to resolve they come off as not great Need to challenge my local clan hells horses player to see just how broken they may or may not be
The Thresher II being to expensive and not worth it because of the armor. Well stack laser-inhibiting arrow four screens on top of laser reflective armor. Load the SRM-4 with smoke for extra screening. The LRM-15 may be loaded with thunder augmented. That combination of ground speed and jump jets may keep up with your pack of Piranha’s. I have already had dumb fun in the Thresher II. As the BV is 4,440 with a ¾ pilot and the issue I have with the mech. Is it runs hot.
@@Magermh smoke is usually banned for good reason lol, same with artillery... but good points I guess. It still is gonna get absolutely rocked by LRMs and ballistics.
The executioner may be too expensive, but the A variant is still a very scary mech with 3 large pulse lasers, and probably the only variant worth considering (if you play optimized games). That said, I would take a dire wolf A over it.
@@elithradril the Dire Wolf is just terrifying... the problem with the Executioner is it pays alot of BV for mobility but... doesnt have that much mobility. It is barely more mobile than a grasshopper and has *worse* survivability and about equivalent firepower. That's pretty ridiculous for an IS heavy to be equal to a clan assault.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Which variant has equivalent firepower to an Executioner A? I find it hard to believe any IS mech can beat 3 clan large pulse + 4 clan ER medium. (At least in the clan invasion era.)
@@elithradril it doesnt beat it but 5 medium lasers and a PPC on the 5N grasshopper is close at close range. It's also like half the cost, so I can take 2 and definitely be better in the brawl.
I have said it before and I'll say it again: if an alpha strike doesn't cause enough unsinked heat for your mech's armour to start melting, is it even a real clan mech?
@TheManyVoicesVA If you're sinking your heat you aren't using it to fuel a glorious nuclear meltdown in the enemy's face. And that is frankly just wasteful.
I feel like Protomechs would be better in a different game altogether with infantry and other powered armored units. "A game of powered armored combat" as it were. TSEMPs definitely fall under "No one will ever use this unless they are playing very specific scenarios."
4:35 yeh TSEMP cannons arent for Clanners , me as a Capellan though thinks a Catapult II makes a great distraction carnifex ....... like i agree the TSEMP cannon is an iffy weapon , but you can ignore a mech with 2 of then at your peril ....... but 3000 BV for a Shadow Cat with one no way , although i rate the streak 6 , steak 6s are dirty when your armour gets low or you get into the side arc of a vehicle
17:20 1 bil is chump change most dropships cost more. Rnd is often priced in tens or hundreds of billions even today. Thats why our equipment seems to cost so much in the west and why its so "cheap" in the east. We include RnD cost into the contract price and ussualy build to demand not capacity. So every time a new contract is signed after the previous has been expired for a while and production lines are down everything has to be restarted and it costs money. I bet its some dog ass legistlation that makes it so its forbidden to make some parts to capacity and so everything else followed.
@@HalIOfFamer well think of it this way tho. IS mechs are like a few million Cbills. Cbills *must* be worth more relative to today's money because many Battlemechs are costed at or under the cost in USD of an Abrams tank.
@TheManyVoicesVA F35 are estimated to cost 2 trillion combined rnd, unit and maintenance by 2070 when they have planned to close the program if production doesn't increase for any reason or isn't canceled early. 100mil is a lot, dollar or cbil don't get me wrong. But if RND of a dead end only cost 1 billion Cbills then that's a bargain. And that is with their contemporary technology. Tech has somewhat stopped progression in the battletech universe but if it ever picks back up who knows, maybe in 100 years XXL engine will be as compact as a regular one and jumpjets will be 4 times as strong with half the weight? Then a 60 tonner with 7 11 10 might be a valuable addition and this clan has already built and tested a frame for it.
Oh they hurt lol why would these even be built. In universe or for TT.... my heart dropped a little when you started with the Fire Moth. I was like don't you talk bad about my mech you heathen. But the D is fine. We don't care about that one lol
@@androssthered1157 There's some good Fire Moths. The H and a couple others are very solid cheap harrassment tools/objective grabbers. But the D... well, I'd rather have any of the expensive Phantoms instead.
CASE. Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment. I remember seeing this on a Mech in one of the Technical Readouts, and thinking: "There's no ammo there." If you're protecting from a weapon explosion that's not going to be CASE. I know, I am being pedantic here, but would it be so hard to give it a different name? As with inconceivable, CASE does not mean what you think it means. Oh, and before I go... Don't you buy no ugly Mech.
@@scottjuhnke6825 ugly mechs only in this house :P Weapon explosions actually tend to not be too powerful so CASE is kinda a waste. CASE II is great tho. 1 damage aint nothin.
"Sir, we have recovered more Smoke Jaguar mechs for study!"
"Are they all Loki's again?"
"Hai, taicho!"
"Sigh..."
@@77professional lmaooo. Listen, you can just put more armor on it! More armor and a couple IS PPCs or something so the weapons are easier to source. EZ
At least it has ppcs
*laughs in horse engineering*
@@77professional remove all the useless stuff. Add slab of metal. Fixed.
Speaking of clan mechs a few tons too heavy, Mad Cat II... seriously as an 85t she'd have 1t more free tonnage with the same equipment and armor as the 90t version.
It's why I made an Omni-mech version of it at 85t, that turned out to be super savage when used.
Keep in mind the Ostscout IIC is from XTRO Boondoggles, so by its very nature should not be taken seriously.
Fwiw the Ostscout IIC doesn't overheat- the partial wing cools the mech by 3 every turn and builds no heat for the additional distance it provides
@@lukewest7216 oh it absolutely does. It has an XXL engine. The jump jets produce double the heat, my guy. 22 heat per jump iirc.
The last one feels like someone in the scientist caste trying to deal with their warrior master's prejudice against using something sensible like a scout vtol and making something far worse and far more expensive. Perhaps just to spite them.
@@cargo_vroom9729 LMAO! Science caste rebellion XD
Clan LRMs have no minimum range.. hence Clan LRM are absolutely close range weapons. Never understand why people say "this clan mech with clan lrm has no close range firepower"
@@riptors9777 which one are you referring to? Like a clan mech with lots of close range firepower to me is one with say... 4 SRM 6, or 4 medium lasers of some variety. Or 6-8 small lasers of some kind. Or a couple big ACs. Or a handful of heavy lasers.
Rather have a Jagermech, strong words. At least you didn't say "I would rather have a Hussar"
@@topcatcoast2coast579 hey at least a jagermech is cheap. In fact for cbill cost I could have a *company* of Jagers for whay some of these things cost. And a lance for the BV
Someone thinks the Hussar is bad? Maybe to pulse lasers under the right conditions.
@Magermh oh man. U have no idea how many people Ive had this argument with. The Hussar is *awful* bar none. U will not convince me it has any value.
@Magermh does not matter unless it is acualy impossible to hit you only have to get lucky once against the hussar. It is a nearly useless mech do not get me wrong the idea of a fast sniper has some appeal but it just does not measure up not enough armor and not enough range. The hussar is close to the worst mech in the game if not the worst. The versions with an er large laser are a lot less bad but still suck at least the have the range to be mostly safe from return fire. The down grades with a standerd large laser are bloody useless.
To put the Hellbringer armor into perspective, there are period IS light mechs with more armor than the Hellbringer.
@@chriseash6497 The Draconis Combine be like "is that 3 panthers strapped together? Oh no wait, that would be more than triple the armor."
Me as a Nova Cat player "ok who put the TSEMP on the Shadow Cat so we made this list ?" Sighs in Arbalest , Ocelot , Morrigan , Nova Cat , SuperNova and other Clan Nova Cat glories
Supernova is Nova Cat? Strange, the Bears have been building it for ages.
@@mathewkelly9968 lmao Nova Cats make only quality mechs of course! Overheating issues? Must be pilot error.
I mean All Nova Cat mechs are awesome. Reminds me I should collect some for my Clan Protectorate Cluster.
Thresher MkII, toss out the SRM4 and its ammo for one more DHS and a ton of armor and you have a decend fire support mech with high mobility.
@@sim.frischh9781 it would be ok but still very costly. But at least it looks very cool!
On the Hellbringer just using the 2 pointless tons wasted on A-Pods to give it some more armour would make it far more viable, instead you've got a 65 ton design that's as fragile as a 40 tonner.
@@sharlin648 exactly. Just strip off all the anti-infantry stuff and replace with armor. Boom, great sniper mech. (Ok it probably needs a few more heat sinks too lol.)
I'd say keep the MG's, and HS as they are, because the Hellbie is basically a 'super-Warhammer' and you want to keep the feel of it, like the warhammer choosing firepower over protection and cooling, But 2 tons of armour would help fix its most glaring faults without optimizing it. Its the same with the Summoner, that thing has crit space for days on all its configs, so if you gave it endo and changed nothing else you could fix its ammo problems in most configs. The big thing you want to avoid though is over-optimization. Because then you run the risk of making everything a Black Python, IE a large pulse laser/Targetting computer combo monster. And they're no fun to face. So keep some flaws and issues with them, but fix the most 'why the bloody hell is it like that?' aspects.
@sharlin648 i never got MGs as backups on mechs. Like why even bother if u have 1 or 2? Bring like 4 so u can actually make use of that ungodly amount of ammo.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Yeah, their problem is the absurdly short range, because if you're in range to use them against PBI's then they're able to shoot back at you. And yeah like drop it to half a ton of ammo. Or if your friends allow you, do the optional firing mode for MG's, you fire D6 shots and treat it like a SRM with each shot hitting a different area but use 2D6 ammo.
@sharlin648 the rapid fire MGs cause heat tho... oh wait no that is a different rule. Is that homebrew?
The Hellbringer looks cool.
@@99zxk Lol literwlly the only thing going for it...
The Caveat of the Ryoken IIIs is that between the interface cockpit (-1 to both gunnery and piloting) and what the pilot needs to have interface with said cockpit (cross refferencing multiple over complicated Interstellar Operations pain shunts or something) does explain why it's such high BV, but that on-top of the TSEMP tax is- yeeesh
That being said, I do wanna try it out just once just to see *how* overcosted it is, assuming I'm using all of the experimental int Ops jank
@@Andrewlik i just think its too big of an investment for something that is gonna die super fast. Ferro-lam is good but not good enough to cover its underwhelming armor pips. Some of the other Skinwalkers are *ok* but still pricey.
Seriously though that thing is not meant to be used in a regular tournament scenario, but rather as a story unit. It's like the society 'Mechs or some blakist horrors horrors that are meant to be individually weird to the regular opponent.
@@vojtechpribyl7386 Yep, similar to suddenly facing an Archangel or Gestalt on the field. It's a 'why do I hear boss music?' unit.
The Dasher D is a menace. I can see this little guy beating more than its value worth of enemy mechs, and quickly too if it fishes for enemy mechs with weak rear armor.
I've also run the Hellbringer a bunch and I love the primary config as an EW resource. If you position well, the enemy wou't make it past your star to get to you.
@@jonbezeau3124 Agree to disagree... I will take 2 crappy shadowhawks over a Dasher D any day. They dont die to a single pulse laser at least.
The problem with ewar on a sniper is you want the ewar *with your front line.* they are the ones who will be using sensors to spot stuff and ECM to jam out Artemis missiles.
@TheManyVoicesVA what phase does detection work in? I advance the Hellbringer from behind first, and then move the starmates ahead of it. If I detect a hidden unit all of my tougher guys can immediately move to counter.
@jonbezeau3124 I actually dont know. Sensors in Battletech are *very* weird. I have to read the rules again but I think it's during movement as you say.
As someone who only ever chooses mechs based on what does and doesn't look stupid I approve this list. Except the Shadowcat. She is still too pretty to be here, I don't care how dumb the variant might be.
@@centurion7398 based and aesthetic pilled. I actually love the look of the new Executioner reworks. Looks like a sleeker Atlas.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say a kind word about the TSEMP. And I certainly won't be the first. Why you would ever take a TSEMP over a Plasma Cannon, a Plasma Rifle, or the great and mighty Snub-Nose PPC is beyond me.
@@WolfHreda Amen, brother. It's entirely overpriced. The Mech Taser, on the other hand... now that's a control weapon.
it's basicly, best I can figure, a scenerio weapon basicly
For the Adder, each PPC Capacitor adds 5 heat and 5 dmg, so it is meant to fire an ERPPC each round at long ranges with 0 heat accumutated. If both are used with the capacitors enabled and running, it will go up to 42 heat. The Coolant Pod will bring it down to 9 heat for that one time. Make sure when both are fired that you have good To-Hit numbers so they don't miss.
@@Daishi85 that ain't it, chief. Capacitors produce heat while charging. So when you charge 1, fire the other charged, it produces 25 heat. That makes this mech heat up, even when standing still. I prefer the other adder. 15 damage is plenty and it has a healthy 2-1-2 firing pattern. Ill take 2 ERPPCs every other turn rather than 1 less accurate more powerful ERPPC every turn(with a cool off turn every few turns with no capacitors on.) Plus capacitors explode. Yuck.
@TheManyVoicesVA I was not aware it produced heat while charging. That changes it a bit yea
@@Daishi85 ive messed with them a bit. I tried an energy boat with 2 LPPCs with capacitors in a campaign and I didnt put enough heat sinks in it. 10 heat on the turn you charge them and fire your backup lasers is *alot* lol.
5:40 the Skinwalker also uses an Interface Cockpit, which removes the Gyro. IIRC this is one of the most BV expensive changes you can make to a mech in the game. It multiplies BV 1.3 just for having one.
@@AlexDenton0451 it doea have some pretty good bonuses associated but... ya. It's very pricey and makes it a real pain to replace the pilot.
What kind of wild journey have you set us on commander? Last time your hecklers and I set out to make the most expensive (BV) units. I came up with a 4 TSEMP and Hyper Laser 100 ton monstrosity that got up to 8900 BV with a 3/4 pilot. Some one else got over 9000 with a similar build. I want to play these mechs. The other high BV mechs are impractical but terrifying, think the Bounty Hunter's Marauder II (3767 BV) or the Shrike 3 (3698 BV). Instead I'm going to play a boss monster with a bunch of mech tasers and 24 damage er large lasers.
@@jamesc.7216 mech taser spam sounds absolutely terrifying. Make sure you put it in a Man O War to make it even more cursed with that 400 XL engine.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Agreed. there is a RISC TSEMP that can be fired every turn. Going to make my players fight against something stupid like a 150 ton tripod with that and a Sniper Artillery cannon.
@@jamesc.7216 id go for Mech Mortars with different ammo. Smoke, inferno, etc. Carpet bomb them! Lol
How do you figure protomechs were a waste? Two points for the resources of a single mech point and you are using aerospace pilots, who you aren't using under zell and aren't as controlled as mechwarriors. And in that a failed aerospace pilot is going to be desperate to prove themselves, and they are the perfect filler for your crippled touman.
@@135forte I just dont think they're very good. The 7 jump ones are pillow fisted and the others die to a stiff breeze.
@TheManyVoicesVA You are supposed to be throwing 5 of them out for every mech the other guy has (or one to one for BA), and you aren't wasting your limited mechwarriors to do it. Grabbing the Gorgon at random, for 1.5k BV (or the resources of a 40t mech) you get 50 LRM tubes if you bring a point of them. The 2 jumps and has a medium pulse laser and the 3 is 5/8 with 8 SRM tubes at the same price point. Even the proof of concept 2t ones make more sense when you are comparing them directly to BA (and remember the pilots were disposable trash as far as the Clans were concerned).
@@135forte ya they're ok. Id usually just rather have Elementals. Ive never used protos but have fought them twice. The optimized ones seem pretty nice, like the 7 jumpers. But they dont really do much damage. It isnt like BA where leg attacks and massed flamers are both scary. Or a cheap light that can jump behind you and kick you for a knockdown check. If protos go for melee they are gonna get kicked and die lol.
@TheManyVoicesVA You aren't looking at from an Clanner pov. It you be acceptable to match a point of five Elementals with a point of five protomechs, and no point of Elementals is going to beat a five ER mediums that move 5/8/5. The reason why the Horses kept them was because they realized how useful they are as super heavy Elementals, which is part of why their ultraheavy proto was built to have elemental pilots.
@@TheManyVoicesVAKeep in mind even something like a Roc with an ER Medium, Heavy Medium, or MPL can easily swarm others and get behind them, allowing for critchecks pretty conveniently. They're pretty nice on built up maps and as a way to force the enemy to focus 1/2 a locust in BV.
I'd like to add the Howler to this list. Light fire support isn't bad, especially with clan LRMs, but it overall doesn't have enough weapons to justify bringing it over alot of the other light mech options.
@@Barga6464 it was considered and I could actually see a use case for it. LRM support for a light Star. It's also at least really cheap so if you buy it, it might actually make its BV back if it hides or kites well.
The Skinwalker you gave was the prototype version. The TSM was removed from production models and none of the configs have a TSEMP. The C production is close to the prototype version, using a Plasma Rifle and two tons of ammo and only 4 ER Mediums (only the ATM 9 is untouched), it is still toasty with only 12 DHS. The C's BV is only 3175. The TSM was removed from the production due to the test pilots aversion to physical warfare. I suspect this is less to do with Clanners aversion to physical attacks and more to the interface cockpit allowing for pilots to 'feel' the blows they give as well as receive. I think one of the main reasons both have such high BV when compared to similar weight designs is the removal of the gyro, clearing a vulnerabilty, tonnage, and critical space.
For the Ostscout IIC, there is only the IS version for both the Bloodhound Active Probe and Angel ECM suite (why some list these with special designators, I don't know). Aside from the Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox creating the Clan version of the RAC, most Clan tech doesn't try to copy IS weapons or specialized equipment.
@@jamesbeard5513 lol "only" 3175 BV... brother I could take 2 IS assaults for that
Clan ER PPC w/ Cap only generates 20 heat total, so chain firing them while at a run is only gonna put out 22 heat total. So long as no one is slinging Plasma, Infernos, or Flamers around, you're fine. Also means that every single shot from it that hits is going to generate a PSR on the target which makes it a nasty little bastard for putting targets out of the fight for a turn. Coolant pod is presumably for situations where you need to fire both PPCs to take down something that's threatening you that you cannot get help with, since that punches you to 44 cooling for 1 turn, more than enough to handle the 42 heat the mech would generate on the run firing both weapons.
@@tetsatou2815 capacitors produce 5 heat while charging and/or maintaining a charge, the only time they dont produce heat is when they are off completely. They are also explosive which is... not fun. So the 2 capacitors produce 10, and the PPC itself 15, for 25 per turn plus movement heat. It's not unmanageable, but I think I prefer the 2-1-2 of the Prime with the TC making them more accurate. 15 damage is still plenty.
(I still am not bringing either of these voluntarily. They are way too expensive for a squishy undersinked sniper)
Executioner-B A is Pretty Decent at least
It costs a mere 2194 BV, the lowest price for the chassis, and carries 2 UAC-10s and 2 LBX-10s (and 2 er small lasers). Thats pretty decent for the cost. Armor distribution still as weird as normal but it's not a rip-off and doesn't overheat itself wildly
@@Andrewlik that seems aight. Lots of 10 damage weapons on an assault is pretty ok. 12 range means it might not be very good at maintaining med range tho.
@@TheManyVoicesVA UAC-10/LB-X-10 is 6/12/18, aren't they? Which sounds like a nice mid range to me ;)
@@reduran9708 the problem is that the enemy will be engaging your other units far before this slow SoB makes it into medium range. Clan line mechs average 5/8. With objectives on the table, you usually dont have time to wait for the slow guy.
@@TheManyVoicesVA that's true, although that's more of a problem of heavier mechs as a whole. I guess the way you should play units like these more around the terrain
@@reduran9708 ya I guess those 2 JJs can actually be helpful if theres like... a hill with heavy woods or something. But that is still gonna be slow going hahaha
Jager with percision autocannon is legit for the bv, but agree with a lot in this. I take the Lobo 2 in a jihad wolf "not sweaty" list, mainly as it has early access to dual plasma cannons. It's fun, but it's a handicap for sure- intentionally so I don't wreck people in a friendly lol ~ Pirate
@@toumanihon641 hahaha it is a very piratey mech. Has lots of tricks up its sleeve. It is very pricey for what u get tho. Gimme a Timby S with infernos instead if I want a heat pressure mech.
Jump 2 seems like a roman gladiator movement profile. JUST jump over a mech's head then unload as many small lasers (I'm laser biased) into something's back as possible.
@@mathewfitzpatrick5645 you could usually walk... lol.
I know it's supposed to be shadow, but it kinda looks like that Kuma is soiling the floor.
@@kryptonianguest1903 DUMP THE COOLANT QUICK!
the high BV ones suck at fair bit in game but in universe they're a lot more scary.
@@spencerjones841 i mean some maybe. The Dasher and Hellbringer, certainly not lmao.
Fire Moth D is one of the reasons I'm pissed that MegaMek removed the wonderful "geometric mean BV" system, since under those rules the D variant comes out to 1336 BV. Much more reasonable for what it can do. Heck, the entire Hellbringer line becomes far more reasonable to bring. I mean, 1811 for the G, 1892 for the C, 1732 for the F? Bit more reasonable.
And hey, I resent protomechs being a waste. They're super fun, and if the bad ones aren't taken (there's a lot of them, granted), they can be incredibly useful and hard to fully destroy.
Heck, units like the Satyr are great for sniffing out hidden units or running recon missions, since you can basically flood the board with LAPs for cheap, and when they get together that's a lot of ERSL firepower.
I always regarded the Fire moth (dasher) and variants as little more than the Mech equivelent of an Ghost bear APC for Elementals. (Yeah, i know it appears in one or two other clans) If you fit it with a bunch of heavy lasers in small or medium variants, it can punch about its weight and run away.
But i think the video misses the point of Omnimechs, the fact you can change the loadout.
@@spodula im aware lol. Some of these have no good loadouts. The Dasher is specifically one of the few that has useful loadouts. The H and a few others are solid.
PROTOMECHS however, from what I hear are kind of terrifying
At least the super heavy protons or the quad one with a impulse that jumps 7
@@Andrewlik most suck. The 7 jump ones are annoying to deal with but they dont so much damage.
@@TheManyVoicesVA They suffer from tournaments having a human hour time limit. I think they could win the game of attrition between jump 7 and the chance for a hit to miss anyway due to the location table, but if that would take 4 hours to resolve they come off as not great
Need to challenge my local clan hells horses player to see just how broken they may or may not be
@Andrewlik i forgot about near miss rule! That is actually quite significant. That alters my perception slightly actually....
The Thresher II being to expensive and not worth it because of the armor. Well stack laser-inhibiting arrow four screens on top of laser reflective armor. Load the SRM-4 with smoke for extra screening. The LRM-15 may be loaded with thunder augmented. That combination of ground speed and jump jets may keep up with your pack of Piranha’s. I have already had dumb fun in the Thresher II. As the BV is 4,440 with a ¾ pilot and the issue I have with the mech. Is it runs hot.
@@Magermh smoke is usually banned for good reason lol, same with artillery... but good points I guess. It still is gonna get absolutely rocked by LRMs and ballistics.
The executioner may be too expensive, but the A variant is still a very scary mech with 3 large pulse lasers, and probably the only variant worth considering (if you play optimized games). That said, I would take a dire wolf A over it.
@@elithradril the Dire Wolf is just terrifying... the problem with the Executioner is it pays alot of BV for mobility but... doesnt have that much mobility. It is barely more mobile than a grasshopper and has *worse* survivability and about equivalent firepower. That's pretty ridiculous for an IS heavy to be equal to a clan assault.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Which variant has equivalent firepower to an Executioner A? I find it hard to believe any IS mech can beat 3 clan large pulse + 4 clan ER medium. (At least in the clan invasion era.)
@@elithradril it doesnt beat it but 5 medium lasers and a PPC on the 5N grasshopper is close at close range. It's also like half the cost, so I can take 2 and definitely be better in the brawl.
I have said it before and I'll say it again: if an alpha strike doesn't cause enough unsinked heat for your mech's armour to start melting, is it even a real clan mech?
@@FuelDropforthewin found the Nova Prime pilot. I bet u also like the Ha Otoko you freak! "Mmm ya baby those single heat sinks get me so hot."
@TheManyVoicesVA If you're sinking your heat you aren't using it to fuel a glorious nuclear meltdown in the enemy's face. And that is frankly just wasteful.
I feel like Protomechs would be better in a different game altogether with infantry and other powered armored units. "A game of powered armored combat" as it were.
TSEMPs definitely fall under "No one will ever use this unless they are playing very specific scenarios."
The Hellstar can fire its 4 PPC's without overheating. It's the only mech that actually manages this.
The only stock mech* you can always build something for this role bit it'll have issues most likely.
@@MrDmitriRavenoff yes you need to dedicate your entire mech to it tho. That thing is jam packed with heat sinks.
Jokes on you, i LIKE the jagermech
At least the Jaegermech is cheap. it isn't a lot but that is still a positive quality in its favor.
@@Blasterbot-ye2uk lmao exactly! Quantity has a quality all its own...
4:35 yeh TSEMP cannons arent for Clanners , me as a Capellan though thinks a Catapult II makes a great distraction carnifex ....... like i agree the TSEMP cannon is an iffy weapon , but you can ignore a mech with 2 of then at your peril ....... but 3000 BV for a Shadow Cat with one no way , although i rate the streak 6 , steak 6s are dirty when your armour gets low or you get into the side arc of a vehicle
@@mathewkelly9968 its a good weapon but not really on the same level as an ERPPC lol.
Ah the Octscout IIC the clan mech worse than the Inner Sphere version
@@Balevolt why fix what isnt broken? Just give it partial wing and it's good as is. XL clan engine will allow weapons and maxed armor.
17:20 1 bil is chump change most dropships cost more. Rnd is often priced in tens or hundreds of billions even today. Thats why our equipment seems to cost so much in the west and why its so "cheap" in the east. We include RnD cost into the contract price and ussualy build to demand not capacity. So every time a new contract is signed after the previous has been expired for a while and production lines are down everything has to be restarted and it costs money. I bet its some dog ass legistlation that makes it so its forbidden to make some parts to capacity and so everything else followed.
@@HalIOfFamer well think of it this way tho. IS mechs are like a few million Cbills. Cbills *must* be worth more relative to today's money because many Battlemechs are costed at or under the cost in USD of an Abrams tank.
@TheManyVoicesVA F35 are estimated to cost 2 trillion combined rnd, unit and maintenance by 2070 when they have planned to close the program if production doesn't increase for any reason or isn't canceled early. 100mil is a lot, dollar or cbil don't get me wrong. But if RND of a dead end only cost 1 billion Cbills then that's a bargain. And that is with their contemporary technology. Tech has somewhat stopped progression in the battletech universe but if it ever picks back up who knows, maybe in 100 years XXL engine will be as compact as a regular one and jumpjets will be 4 times as strong with half the weight? Then a 60 tonner with 7 11 10 might be a valuable addition and this clan has already built and tested a frame for it.
@HalIOfFamer lmaooo maybe. "The new XXXL engine! Now with less critical slots!"
Oh yeh these are all bad . Take a horde of Arblast 3s over these things
@@mathewkelly9968 solid little mech tbh. Big punch for low BV and ok armor.
@18:50 partial wing adds 3 heat sinks
Oh they hurt lol why would these even be built. In universe or for TT.... my heart dropped a little when you started with the Fire Moth. I was like don't you talk bad about my mech you heathen. But the D is fine. We don't care about that one lol
@@androssthered1157 There's some good Fire Moths. The H and a couple others are very solid cheap harrassment tools/objective grabbers. But the D... well, I'd rather have any of the expensive Phantoms instead.
oh i so hate the gladiator. i tried to like it but no!
@@Dreadwolf3155 it is just way too expensive. Id rather take 2 Man o War Primes than 1 of any chassis of that mech lol. (And you pretty much can)
How dare you slander the mighty Davion engineering of the Jagermech!
@@ObiwanNekody Slander?! I said Id prefer it over these pieces of trash! Lol. At least the Jagermech is cheap!
@@TheManyVoicesVA the Jaegermech also has some absolutely solid configs. the twin RAC Jaegermech is pretty deadly
It‘s not the kit, it’s how you use the kit. Except for the Hellbringer. Then it absolutely is the kit.
@@rafale1981 The hellbringer exists for one reason, to provide salvage for players to upgrade their old warhammer with clantech :)
@@briandavion im talkin about the OG baby. The real garbage one. It is better than the Hellbringer for the BV imo.
CASE. Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment. I remember seeing this on a Mech in one of the Technical Readouts, and thinking: "There's no ammo there."
If you're protecting from a weapon explosion that's not going to be CASE. I know, I am being pedantic here, but would it be so hard to give it a different name?
As with inconceivable, CASE does not mean what you think it means.
Oh, and before I go...
Don't you buy no ugly Mech.
@@scottjuhnke6825 ugly mechs only in this house :P
Weapon explosions actually tend to not be too powerful so CASE is kinda a waste. CASE II is great tho. 1 damage aint nothin.