Use a Crossband Repeater Instead (
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2021
- Ken, N2DF, is having trouble with his HT because of his metal house. He is unable to connect and communicate. He is wondering if he can the end of a feedline from his Vertical from the top of his roof, and connect it to another antenna inside the house so he could rebroadcast the signals in his house?
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Just installed a kenwood TM v71 at my QTH . With the cross-band setup , I can now hit repeaters that were once beyond the reach of my HT from all over my property and inside the house.
I've been impressed with mine. Very good dual receive, overall great rig. Mine is mobile, with a fan, for cross band use in the field. Heat and power use mobile is a concern, especially considering I need all 50 watts to try to hit the local repeater that is ~65 miles away.
(N4BDW)This is my mobile radio. Each year we provide communications for a “Two Bridge Run/Walk” of two river bridges between KY & OH about 2.7 miles apart. Our club repeater sits on a hit...blocked by a hill if we stand with ht’s on a highway along the river. So I park my truck on the opposite side of the river, crossband repeat, and we’re about to get into our club repeater via the cross. I couldn’t imagine having bought a different mobile.
Are you using the "remote control" function...? change frequency, CTCSS, power level etc.................
@ Ken, your idea does work to some degree, we used it to good effect inside hardened aircraft hangers !
The full functionality of a base station can be remotely controlled using the Internet. An HT or repeater setup are not required. Details, designs, and control software can be found by doing a web search. ARRL has also published ways to do this.
You know, in underground tunnels, they used to have "leaking coax" connected to an outside antenna. A completely passive system that enables mobile communication under ground.
Great idea for the crossband repeater. Definitely program several memory channels to be able to switch between repeaters. And don't forget to have one memory setup for 146.520 MHz (calling frequency on simplex)! 73
Many ways to skin a cat. The passive repeater (antenna connected to another) has been used since the 50's for difficult to cover TV and radio reception in mountains more recently for cellular service. Valmont Towers is very busy installing them today!
The key is "link budget" 10 meters from the inside antenna will lose ~35dB@ 2m, so if you have 35dB to spare it can work.
I once saw a large yagi on a hill connected to another to make a link many miles away that I would have thought impossible. The antenna gain on both the in and out antennas adds constructively. It does not make much common sense but the math works and it functions for decades with no equipment to fail.
That was a great question.
When I do this I require a tone so it won't retransmit noise.
Good idea.
Good vide, do not forget to mention that some handsets (crossband repeaters) have the capability to repeat DMR signals to analog handsets and vice versa back to DMR. That is a double whammie with just a simple builtin crossband setup.
Dave, a friend of mine used a radio repeater setup like that for many years. His radio was in the car and he carried around a 70cm talkie.
I often use my land mobile ht radio though my mobile rig via crossband to hit repeaters while I'm out fishing or doing other activities away from the car.
I don't have many buddies anymore that can join me for those activities and it's nice to spark up a conversation while drowning worms or looking at a nice vista.
Some repeater systems prohibit the use of cross-banding into their systems. That being said, we have used a Kenwood TMV-7A set on low power as a fill-in for handheld coverage in an area where our club repeater is spotty. Another alternative for systems that have VOIP access, is to use a hotspot in your house.
I have a question concerning the frequencies used for cross band. for 2m/440 have any ham groups decided on the preferred frequencies to use. (dedicated pair) or do most
just try and find a pair not used in the area? Unlike standard Repeaters who try an coordinate their frequency to reduce possible QRM.
Hi Dave, I've been using my IC-2700 as a crossband repeater since 1990. This is a great idea if someone's needs to be on air within his other ham fellows. Lately i'am using the smallest dual band of Baofeng and works like a remote microphone. So i'am always on air with my Blacktooh (Bluetooth) microphone..🤣🤣
I have same setup. icom 2730 connected to a decent duelband antenna on a mast, and in and around house i use a cheap baufeng handheld with the 2730 in X-band mode. gets the job done and it boosts my tx from a few watts from the ht to 50w via the xband .
'Passive repeaters' (just two antennas and a cable) are sometimes used to rebroadcast FM radio to drivers in tunnels. This is very important in emergencies.
But for this to work the outside antenna must be very directional and very high gain (a large Yagi or something). The FM transmitter itself is usually much more powerful than a typical ham station and not too far away.
The distance between the antenna in the tunnel and the cars has to be short, as well. Usually they use a 'Leaky feeder' cable through the entire tunnel.
There are active repeaters that amplify and rebroadcast FM radio on the same frequency in large tunnels. Systems like that have to be designed very carefully to prevent feedback and interference.
Greetings Dave..On this video for aluminum siding and ht repeater..for conversation, I do this with my baofeng ht at 1 watt and my Alinco 735 mobile ( set on five watts ) and the external dual band x3 vertical . My HT in hand on second floor, base Alinco in basement BUT the vertical is only fifteen feet from my room upstairs...works great, however, the oscillator in the mobile base gets extremely warm if the power setting is above ten watts even with a near 1:1 swr, beldon flex 9913 at 75 feet. My guess is the duel frequency switching. House is fully aluminum sided, and staying. (Love my partial faraday box).
73,
Gary in se Michigan
I remember the days of the bag cell phone and the passive repeater ( two antennas ). mine didn't work all that well..
Nice!
Hi David Iam kc2dpy i would like to know if you know how to program a Yeasu VX-6R to transmit crossband uhf/vhf if you do would you please show me how.Thank you.
You would just choose a UHF simplex frequency if youre trying to reach a VHF repeater (or it can work vice versa) and ensure that UHF frequency matches to the mobile radio's simplex frequency. If the radio is crossband capable and is in that mode, it will transmit to the VHF repeater..The reply will come back VHF, be converted to that UHF simplex frequency by the mobile unit and transmitted to your VX6r. The idea is to leverage the power and range of your mobile unit to extend the reach of your ht.
Maybe a newbie question… If the cross band repeater’s antenna port is hooked up to the external antenna on the house, how can the ht inside the house hit the repeater? Wouldn’t the faraday cage house block the signal?
You would think but there will be “leakage” thru Windows and roof plus you only need a very small signal for thee other rig to be picked up and retransmit.
Bill N3EYF
@@williamgrover9723 Thanks for clearing that up. Surely, the incoming signal would not present a problem, but I couldnt wrap my head around how the ht signal is going to make it to the base rig antenna. Assuming there is a metal roof in this scenario, it must be the window "leakage" that is the key to making this work..
Passive repeaters fo work depending on the signal strength of thr signal at the outside antenna.
From the question, it is not clear the "base station" is IN the house. I have a friend who has a base station in a radio shack but his house is next door. ... Also, as HF "power" radiates, having it transmit indoor an all metal building would make the signals bounce around, ... and maybe accumulate (would it not) ... I think he may be asking if he used an external antenna to the handheld and cross banned over to the shack. I have a Yeasu 8800 and I often thought if I was out camping I could have it on and take a hike with the HT and cross band.
I have tried this with mixed results. You have to watch for timeouts. Not only does the repeater have a timeout but your crossband radio will as well (usually ~3 minutes). If the repeater doesn’t drop it’s carrier but just gives a courtesy beep you can easily timeout the crossband radio since it never stops transmitting.
Yes, extensive crossband use can cause the radio to overheat. You should set it to the lowest power setting that does the job.
Check with the repeater owner. Many do not allow cross banding into the repeater.
Makes sense, but what about using the "domestic" part locally with low power and stubby antennas? We already do something similar to that in digital modes with hotspots
I use this feature on my 5100 pretty much every day! I don't think I could live with out it anymore
Tell us more about how you use this daily. Just curious.
@cchalfantusa well I live way to far out to hit a repeater with just a 5 watt HT. So I have a Diamond x300 connected to my Icom 5100 that I use for my base. I can even use it from several miles away like my own repeater system. When I'm out in the yard or just monitoring from inside the house this feature makes everything much easier.
It would work better if he uses a 2m/70cm diplexor on the antenna feed and connects a 70cm antenna inside the house.
The UHF repeater I'm trying to hit is 80 miles away. Takes an outdoor gain antenna.
whats a good symplex for 2m? the repeater is in the 70cm i would crossband to 2m?
First off, yes it will work both ways. 2m-to-70cm or 70cm-to-2m.
"Simplex" is direct without using a repeater or PL tone, so any open frequency will do just fine.
@@greglawrencemusic yes I know all this but what's a good symplex to use without using 146.52 for example
@@Ibelieve218 "Simplex Operation" means the radio stations are communicating with each other directly, on the same frequency. It is not a frequency or band.
Both stations take turns transmitting and receiving on the same frequency with no repeater or other device in between.
- So any frequency that is available, not in current use, or not being used by a local repeater or high-traffic user group would be fine. This will vary depending on your local HAM networks & users.
-Example 2m: 145MHz or any frequency with a signal separation of 50KHz from any close frequency in use.
The same would apply for any frequencies on the 70cm band (420-450MHz with a separation of 10MHz for any close frequencies in use.
'73
@@Ibelieve218 The ranges of 146.40-146.58 & 147.42-147.57 are listed specifically as 2m Simplex frequencies by the ARRL.
Based on the 1 x 2 callsign, this ham is an Extra Class. He should not need to ask this question.
Let's not discourage folks from asking questions. Does no harm and I'm sure most people not interested in helping would just quietly move along.
😄 it's not like it was 20 years ago lol
Hey Dave, is there anything stopping us from doing the same thing say from 70cm to 20 meters?
Well, the "dual band" radios which do "crossband repeat" with built-in functionality, they're typically the 2m and 70cm band. Others *could* be included, but mostly it's those two.
If you have a single radio that does crossband repeat between 70cm and 20m, please tell us what make and model.
More likely, what you'd need to do is build an interface which handles what is essentially VOX on each radio - your HF rig for 20m, and (probably) a mobile rig for 70cm.
The question then becomes - what is it that you do on 20m that is so silent for so long that it would un-VOX the 70cm side? Perhaps you have a buddy on 20m who you receive 5x9++ on USB, so you can turn the RF gain way down on the HF rig, so as to make it dead quiet, so if your buddy isn't talking, the HF rig's noise won't trip the VOX on the 70cm rig.
Technically - it can be done. And now that you have me curious, I'm going to try to pull it off. Wish me luck.
@@kelvin0mql Yes but I was thinking more of connecting my two radios together to accomplish that. instead of cross-band repeat. I was wondering if it is within the rules to do something like that.
@@kelvin0mql I had my H/T on a run to Roseville yesterday and happened to hear you doing a cross-band test. Could not hit the repeater from inside the car. How did your test work out?
@Cury Stacy did you ever create a solution for listening your buddy call out on 20M and alert you through 70cm or by some other means?
Hi Dave,
Very good solution, but I would go a step further and use a diplexer at the indoor rig with a GP or collinear antenna for 70cm. Both are easy to construct. That way no 70cm signal is broadcast on the outdoor antenna. Stay safe. 73 WJ3U
Ken slusher is a pirate. Broadcasting is illegal! It is defined as one way transmissions.
I’m somewhat puzzled, your question appears to come from an extra class operator, yet they are unaware of crossband repeat radios. The Kenwood TMV71, Yaesu 8900, or even the TYT 9800 are good choices.
He may already know that but asked an interesting question anyway. We also don't know what radios he has in possession and their capabilities.
Get a boh fwung