EEVblog 1580 - MacGruber Mailbag
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- More Mailbag!
00:00 - Mailbag Monday time
01:42 - T-88C Analog Multimeter
s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DEo...
07:26 - Teardown
12:11 - PCB proto boards from Jon Newcomb
www.jnewcomb.com/
www.ebay.co.uk/usr/jon_newcomb
19:02 - 1990 Tandy Catalog from Ant Cross
/ @antandtec
28:04 - Alcatel S12 Line Test Card
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#ElectronicsCreators #Mailbag - Наука та технологія
Maybe you could use the magnet on the top of this thing to recover the screw lost in the carpet ...
Or to stick it on your fridge.
Dave I worked for Telstra in the early 2000's and we had access to a system called "OATS" which afaik interfaced with cards similar to those. The system allowed us to punch in various different identifiers for a line and then would switch this card into the circuit with the line, perform a number of tests and combine that with database information on what was on the line to show us how it should be performing and would flag any dangerous conditions on the line.
The worst one I ever saw was a line with 450V of foreign voltage on it and that triggered all sorts of safety processes we had to jump through to report it and get it checked out.
Those Tandy catalogs (all the makers in fact), were an educational item. Really miss them now 55 years on!
Yes the 1990 catalogue was starting to get thinner.
UK Tandy had disappeared by year 2000 so you'll not be getting another one 10 years on!
About the Mietec chip on the Alcatel test board: Mietec was a single fab 4" semiconductor manufacturer in the 80's in Oudenaarde Belgium. Around the early 90's they where bought by Alcatel and it bcame Mietec Alcatel. They added a 6" sub micron fab to their 4" line. A few years later the name was changed to Alcatel Mietec. At some point the 4" line got closed and eventually somewhere after the 2000's Alcatel sold the remaining 6" line to ON-Semi. A few years ago, ON-Semi spun the fab off because it was too small to be of strategic importance to them (In Europe, they are focusing on their Czech fab, formally Motorola, formally Tesla). Fortunately there was a management buy out and the site is now called BelGaN. This company is converting the fab to 8" and they are qualifying GaN FETs. What the chip does, no idea, but I suspect some early ASICS around the 1.5 micron node. It would have been build in the 4" line.
I used to work there for an equipment vendor in the early 90's and still visit them occasionally as contractor.
not quite correct. Mietec had two waferfabs. Fab 1 and Fab 2. they started as a spinoff from UGent and money from flemish investment. They were doing a lot fo work for BTMC ( Bell Telephone Manufacturing Corp) and Bell Antwerp (where system 12 was designed) . When alcatel went bust the fabs and design center were sold to STmicro who promptly resold the fabs to AMIS . Amis was later bought out by Onsemi. fab 1 was shut down due to older processes that were no more relevant. Fab II is now owned by BelGaN which is converting it to Gallium-Nitridue for power mosfets. I started there in 1993 as maintenance tech in Plasma etching and Ion implantation. In 1994 i moved to the design center. Mietec had unique high voltage processes specially geared towards slic ( subscriber line interfaces for POTS) . We made one chip for eaton to drive the clock/thermometer display in kitchen ovens. 28 pin dip. wired directly to a VFD , two relays. stick 220 volts directly on two pins. the entire clock was mains fed. We did a lot of stuff for bosch, valeao, wabco, hoover. It was all custom work. We had our own design library and tools. After the Alcatel buyout we switched to telecoms and stopped all the automotive and whitegood/browngood stuff. POTS, ISDN, powerline modems and the ADSL/VDSL. At one point we had 95% of the world market for ADSL chipsets. I helped make the first ADSL frontend IC and made the test setup for that thing.
The Alcatel S12 is a type of telephone switch. Many of the old POTS telephone switches had cards like these that handled testing the lines either in an automated way or on demand. The card stays in the switch and gets accessed through commands that tell it which line to test and what series of tests to run. Back when I was in telecom, and actually had copper lines, we had an automated test line that we could call up and enter a line number to test. It would take about 30 seconds and then an automated voice would read off the test results. Being able to test a line on demand was a real time saver. This testing equipment was also used to automatically close out trouble tickets as resolved when line conditions improved. For example, after a rain instead of actually fixing the problem, the system would just keep testing the link until it dried out and then report the problem as fixed guaranteeing another trouble ticket the next time it rained.
lol, that's the way!
The meter did actually have 20K/V shown on the lower right...
Years ago when testing multiple analogue outputs from a DAC system showing vessel pressures I always liked to hook up multiple analogue multimeters instead of DMM’s……got to see better at a glance across them what they were doing.
"mouldy-mead-er" :P
those prototyping boards look super handy ngl
I already had Jon Newcombs boards in my Ebay watch list. Those breakout boards cost a fortune at Mouser.
"A lot of people say I say moldy meter, no I don't, I say moldy meter"! That's definitely how it sounds Dave.
Yes indeed David.
It is most certainly my 'Favourite Segment....Mail-Bagga-Bonza'😉😎
Battery of the month club was the best; Radio Shack was the place to hang out back in the day.
5:18 I try out continuity testers by tapping out my ham call sign in fast Morse code. If there's lag in the beeper, it's really noticeable.
Back in the 80s here in the Uk there was a Tandy store in Grimsby, and the batteries etc were branded Radioshack, and I use to have one of their 75 in 1 electronics kits. None of that Australian rubbish, thank you very much ;)
I have a Radio Shack analog multimeter which I really like, and although I have a more modern one with a lot of whiz bang features I still go to this one for many quick measurements and love it for many purposes.
The old school electricians who were retiring 20 years ago swore by analog meters (Simpson and whatnot) and used them like voltage indicators. They couldn't care less about what the actual value read, but were looking for the needle sweep, much like transmission line "meters" that you couldn't read anyway since they're on the end of an 8-10ft hotstick.
I used to love the Radio Shack Catalogs back in the day. Very influential on my life path lets say.
Back in 1980 I used to walk a couple miles to their store to play with the MG1 Moog/Realistic synth.
First computer I ever programmed was the Tandy color computer. I wrote a little demo that said the address and phone number of the store in basic.
And my first multimeter, which I still have and use is a Micronta 22-185 from there. Its third from the left at 24:26
Sure I have a Keithley, but the Keithley doesn't do continuity beeps!
I also own a vintage Realistic MG 1 of my own now. Its an interesting model because it was designed by a Radio Shack engineer, Paul Schreiber with input from Moog staff.
But Moog manufactured it under contract. Then later adapted the design to several different products under the Moog brand. So not a re-badge!
Love the timer shirt btw.
My father gave me his analog multi-meter before passed away. It was the last thing I ever got from him.
Dave, get your own back on the Chinese and copy their ideas on the analog moldy-meeder. Make your buddies at Brymen make one!
Polyputylketlon - you’re a man of culture, Dave! Made me smile big time.
[penny drops].... I only just, after five and a half decades, realise that AVO (as in the famous AVO8 meters) stands for Amps Volts Ohms. Duh!!!
I have a '62 and a '74 RS catalog. I got my ham license in '57 so eagerly sought these out. And the ones from Allied, Lafayette, Burstein-Applebee, etc, BTW index in the center was pretty common.
I also have a Triplett 630 (and 260C!). But recently I got a new analog VOM:
"Tekpower TP8250 Analog Multimeter with NULL Middle Position 0 For Variation Measurement" There are two null scales, -5-+5 and -25 - +25 V DC which can be handy.
That line test card is some spiffy tight multi-layer layout. It must have cost a fortune back in the day. Just for the components. It’s beautiful.
I agree. And with that chip packing density, that layout didn't just drop out the sky.
I spotted a few wet tantalum (TAA style) caps on the board, I wonder if they are still good.
In my day, if you could afford a Simpson MM, you were the bee's knee's, Daddy!
I still use my Sanwa bakelite meter. I have a huge collection of pretty much all the analogue Tandy/Micronta meters that were ever released
Showcase video please!
2:57, it says 20k/V directly below the No on the lower right of the scale.
That right angle bit of plastic wasn't broke but a seperator to go through the slot in the board for protection seperation
This is true. I've seen confirmation in other reviews. Will David see this?
@@Janom66 If he reads my post🙂
i still have the sinpson 260 I got in 1961 and it still works. prefer the Simpson over the Tripplet because when you switch between DC+ and DC- it flips the polarity on the leads, thats a quick way to check inductors for shorts - the meter will kick if the inductor is not a dead short.
This brings back neat memories. I loved the calculator watches I had!
In the 80s we bought one of the first affordable audio CD players. Nowadays they have like 6 buttons because you don't need any more. Just press forward multiple times to go to your favorite track, or hold it to fast forward. Back then they had like 20 buttons to select the track numerically, including a 0/00 single/double digit toggle button, and what not. I think they did that just to make a point that you can "easily" go to any track, rather than having to wind forward/backward like with the casette tapes that they replaced. Not only that, but I think every 80s stereo apparatus was like that, and especially Sony. Just put as many buttons on a thing as you possibly can, so it looks more impressive than any "old" technology that you may have had. I'm talking everything from video-8 camcorders to DAT walkmans.
That analogue meter with it's boost converter and lord knows what other chips in it kind of negates one of the most important reasons for having an analog meter. That being zero emissions.
I have a MICRONTA Fet , but tend not to use it much if at all nowadays and instead use the fluke 😞
Thanks Dave, all I can hear now is Moldy Meter.... hahah
I have two matching digital multimeters like you suggested in a previous video but I also bought an analog multimeter which I paid $49.00 as you say Yankee bucks. The analog multimeter I bought is pretty accurate. I found out that you get what you pay for.
More often true than not.
Good job you're in a nice safe studio, Dave. I worry what you'd open up with that knife in the bush!
When I were a lad AVO was the make to have analogue meter 🙂
I still have the analog multimeter that we soldered ourselves in electronics class in vo-tech in 1999 and 2000.. I think it literally still has the original 9v battery inside; I can still zero the ohms meter; somehow. :)
1990... I sold those Tandy computers at Radio Shack. It was a great job! We made commission, and I was the only "computer guy" in the store. As a 20 year old in 1990 I was making 15 bucks an hour on some days, it was great! (~$36/hr in today's money).
My favorite segment!
AliExpress tells me that the T-88C is now $43 USD. But allowing for inflation that's way cheaper than the Radio Shack model I bought 50 years ago.
The price has gone up, that's true. It is impossible to buy for 17, but 43 is the price of another category of multimeters)))
I haven't been notified of any of your videos for the past year, despite being subscribed, and the bell icon selected to all. I thought you retired or something. 😮
UA-cam had one job...
Still use my trusty Avo 8, not very transportable.
Good to 3000 volts, definitely trust it at those voltage levels.
I had a golden arrow, and a wild pony - I loved those things.
Still have my Tandy chess computer, works a treat, certified (approved whatever it is) by Gary Kasparov.
Still use the old BBC MAH2 often as it's passive and can be left on forever when monitoring long time battery stuff or alike.
Was Radio Shack here in Canada too..
I think Jaycar still sell an anolouge meter. I might have to check it out now!
Widow maker at those voltages ⚡️🔥😢 - Not having a screw retainer makes me wonder what other “short” cuts were made. 😊 - Great channel!
Not too many shortcuts, threaded inserts is usually the first thing to go. The magnet on the back is rather novel though.
Nice to see that Tandy catalog. Do you remember the Q-cat? I believe i still have some laying around.
Chinese analog meter "not good enough for Australia", Okay that's a bummer, you don't hear that often on this channel
One shortcoming of plastic front analog meters is static. Rub the plastic near the mid-scale and do a quick calibration. You may find the needle 'leans' toward the mid-scale from either side.
FWIW, I think _most_ of us say "moldymeder." I've actually tried consciously pronouncing it with tap t's, and it feels and sounds dorkish. There are a lot of words where regional accents (especially Seppo accents) more or less dictate a flap d substitution.
Only UA-camrs who say "multimeter" with tap t's that I've noticed are Big Clive and DiodeGoneWild. It works well with their accents.
It does say 20K/V on the scale. Bottom right corner under the "No:"
I got one of these equalizers put away in a drawer somewhere
25:07 I have that golf game. Somehow a golf simulation was doable even on such a dumb device.
On analog meter they 250V for current measurement, as it is provided with 250V fuse on 10A :>
On second range PTC is probably 60V and will blow up for sure at mains :>
I got 2 different CD players from the 90s which are supposed to have the ASTEC computer drive in them.
One works pretty good,the other is suffering from SMD capacitor leakage in the audio section. Transport still works.
Also,I have a Dual JFET VOM on the bench.
Remember the CUE CAT barcode scanner?
Yep,got one a them,too!
32:32 The chip is an AM-uh-TEK.
I got rid of my Hioki Kit Tester, an analog multimeter, after a couple of decades of use. The movement got stuck, and I think I ruined the spring trying to fix it. Maybe it's time for an analog meter again.
"moldy" meter? cheers!
some old crusty meters really are "Moldymeders"
It was kept in a wet basement? 🤣
I guess the Alcatel card should fit permanent in the chassis and they have specific program can send command to the card and test the copper wire circuit (for analog usually 4-wire I guess), then obtain the attenuation of the from center to the subscriber.
That last board: I'm guessing one connector mates with an IBM Main Frame and the other mates with an outbound wire trunk, and that is how you get the data.
I did similar: i would save the main radio shack catalogues when i was a kid, late 70s' 80's. Tande was sold at Radio Shacks in Ontario Canada. I also collected a UK elecroncis magazine called... Effekrdon... ?? Or something like that. And also Byte and Omni. And liek you, all got tossed at some point. : /
A very cool T-88c meter to supplement digital meters in testing things like motor acceleration/deceleration and the like. 🥳 $18-$20 is great for kids Arduino projects. 🥰 Thanks.
Tandy might have been the first consumer machine booting MS-DOS from ROM but loads of industrial systems did as HD with spinning rust unreliable due to vibration.
In pre flash days it was a CMOS battery back loaded from your laptop. Power spikes caused mostly by motor drive failure caused mem corruption.
Toshiba & HP had MS-DOS on rom machines as well
That's the new Fisher-Price moldy-meter for kids.
Mcgruber is on my top 10 list.
Looks similar to the Digitek Jaycar jobbie.
We all know the fav part is male bags!
hey EE, curious what you think would be the best option to measure DC amp load on a starting circuit for engines.. there has been a debated on the accuracy of regular multimeters in the shop and i feel like an oscilloscope is not tough enough to survive shop use. any suggestions?
Had me several battery of the month club.
I remember when I was like 12 my very first working project was a analog voltage meter i used a analog cb signal meter a nail for positive probe a potentiometer for calibration and wire for ground all electric taped together 😅
The T-88C looks actually really great...if it wasnt so full with mandarin. Could have just kept it "Technical"
You can get New Old Stock Chinese analogue meters for peanuts if you know where to look.
0:05 Wow, you killed John Rambo??!
That wide DIP package on the left side of the Alcatel test board might be made by Ametek?? It seems there are still some electronics-ish companies out there using this name.
Any idea what it does?
Didn’t John Newcombe play tennis for Australia
Ahh.. not this Jon Newcomb! Had some relations move there, they couldn't read or write and ended up registering births with an 'e' in the surname, so maybe it's true!!
22:35 *Techmoan has entered the chat*
I don’t use an analog multimeter however my grandfather does. He had a really old bulky analog meter that he blew up and then threw away and immediately regretted throwing it away. So he bought a little cheapy digital meter that he absolutely hated. So I bought him a 20 dollar analog meter off of amazon. He loves it, I hate it. I can’t read the numbers on the thing and there’s too many ranges on the one meter.
Hey Dave, can you make a video about LDO noise and PSRR and ultra low noise LDOs like LT3042?
it DOES say "20k/V" in the bottom right corner.
What is that feature on the circuit board where you took out that L-shaped piece of plastic?
It's the transistor test socket
Nice review. I wish these analog meters would skip the resistance and capacity ranges all together and add some volt / amp ranges instead. It would eliminate the leaky batteries and free up the top scale. Nobody measures ohms on an analog meter anymore, when you can get a digital meter for even less. Just my opinion.
I use the ohms ranges, but I'm usually not looking at the exact number.
Now that's a KNIFE!
Now that's a knife!
If I don't need high precision ill use an analog meter, never have to worry about dead batteries.
Those battery of the month batteries were very leaky.
Radio Shack had to use the name Tandy as UK, Europe & Australia markets had Radio Spares so to close!
RS components (Radio Spares) are still going. In the last company I worked for I drove everyone nuts by calling RS Radio Spares which they at first thought I had found a new supplier until penny dropped?
"Do I really pronounce it 'moldy meter'? Don't think so, it's 'moldy meter'".
Mow-dee-mee-dah. You got it!
Hey have you worked on the TRASH 80??? [TRS80]
Yay!
Everybody screaming: Good old days!
"Mouldy meeder"
Ah, the analog muldimedah 🤣😂
You call them what... 'mouldy meter'?
Simpson 260.
Triplett 630. Dave compares them in a video.
Your old man had that scanner? I had a PRO-2022. And I'm a millennial.
His first one was the Pro-2020
MacGruber seems like a terrible movie. I probably will go watch it.
Is the voice a squeaky AI?