impossible selenelion eclipse model - upside down shadow
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Let's see of we can model a selenelion using refraction to go the shadow of earth to come down from the top as seen in the "impossible eclipse". follow on tiktok for more
This looks like some desperate ad hock mental gymnastics to me - is it only during selenelion eclipses that this insane, otherwise unwitnessed, atmospheric condition is met where it’s able to lift the entire sun and or moon above the horizon it’s actually behind and or inverts the eclipse shadows path??? Wouldn’t that be odd af- esp. since they can be predicted well ahead of time?? 🤔 This perfect refractive condition only aligns itself during selenelion eclipses huh?
What’s more is that the refractive lens’ distance in this setup - in relation to our actual atmospheric lens, the scale isn’t even close to analogous/ even useful in this matter really- this doesn’t at all explain how this could occur in real life.
"Insane, otherwise unwitnessed, atmospheric condition"? What are you talking about? We witness atmospheric refraction all the time. Go to the beach every day and observe how far you see and you'll see it changes with atmospheric conditions. As for the setup, no flat earther has ever demonstrated an eclipse (or even a sunset) in their model, to scale or not. That should tell you something.
Keep crying Flerf, his explanation destroyed your fantasy world
Flat-Earthers claim that such an eclipse should not be possible to occur because the Earth’s shadow is in the wrong position. In reality, it is possible to happen because the observer is looking slightly downward due to the dip of the horizon and atmospheric refraction.
For our calculation, we will use the average figures of the diameter of the Sun and the Moon, which are 0.53° and 0.52°, respectively.
During a lunar eclipse, the Sun, Earth, and the Moon are practically in a straight line. Therefore, if we can observe the Sun and the Moon simultaneously, then they must be close to the horizon, during either sunrise or sunset, with the eclipsed Moon appears in the opposite direction.
Due to atmospheric refraction, we can also observe the Sun and the Moon even if geometrically they are slightly below the horizon. Atmospheric refraction raises celestial objects close to the horizon upward by about 34 arcminutes or 0.57°. In the case of our lunar eclipse, atmospheric refraction raises the Sun, and the Moon upward by 0.57°. To simplify things, we add it to the figure of the dip of the horizon above.
If the Sun, Earth, and the antisolar point are in a straight line, then, geometrically, the observer must be slightly off the straight line, and we need to account for the lunar parallax. Due to this, it will lower the position of the Moon as seen by the observer by atan(Earth’s radius / Moon’s distance) = atan(6371 km / 384400 km) = 0,95°.
From all of these numbers, we can explain how the so-called “impossible eclipse” can occur in the spherical Earth model, with plenty of wiggle room.
In reality, a selenelion is possible because Earth’s atmosphere refracts light.
During a total lunar eclipse, the position of the Sun, Earth, and Moon is in a straight line. In such a configuration, both the Sun and Moon should not be visible at the same time during a lunar eclipse from an observer on Earth.
However, Earth’s atmosphere refracts light. As a result, the actual position of the moon is up to about 0.5° lower than where it appears. And the same thing happens with the sun at the opposite point in the sky. It is the reason that observing both objects in the sky at the same time during a total lunar eclipse is possible.
This phenomenon is called ‘selenelion’ or ‘selenehelion.’ While not impossible, it is a rare phenomenon, and can only happen at a specific place and time during the progression of a total lunar eclipse.
Nice work
This has always been an interesting topic to me, but I have never found a really good explanation that I understood. While refraction plays a big role here, I thought the moons orbit was equally important. I saw a youtube video where the moon was setting but the shadow was on top when it seemed like it should be on the bottom. The moon like everything else sets in the West because of the earths rotation but the moon is independently orbiting East right into the earth's shadow.
Right?
you do understand both sun and moon are above the horizon when this event occurs right? You are showing the true position of celestial bodies in order for the impossible eclipse to occur but need to show how refraction is making the observer see both celestial bodies above their true position.
So that example of refraction should affect both sides.
In reality, a selenelion is possible because Earth’s atmosphere refracts light.
During a total lunar eclipse, the position of the Sun, Earth, and Moon is in a straight line. In such a configuration, both the Sun and Moon should not be visible at the same time during a lunar eclipse from an observer on Earth.
However, Earth’s atmosphere refracts light. As a result, the actual position of the moon is up to about 0.5° lower than where it appears. And the same thing happens with the sun at the opposite point in the sky. It is the reason that observing both objects in the sky at the same time during a total lunar eclipse is possible.
This phenomenon is called ‘selenelion’ or ‘selenehelion.’ While not impossible, it is a rare phenomenon, and can only happen at a specific place and time during the progression of a total lunar eclipse.
@@Mayan_88694 here is a problem with your explanation. There is no refraction. Do you know why? because we have thermal imaging and infrared optics that site bodies for heat, not visible light in which you can compare visible light optics with thermal optics and see there’s no refraction.
@@Mayan_88694 the other problem you have is the line of totality. They are always between 70-100miles. that means the moon is under 40 miles in diameter. You cannot have an object cast a shadow that is smaller than the object that creates a shadow so therefore, you are debunked.
@@macmac9371 not at all. The only one who got debunked is you.
Because Earth is a sphere, the horizon is not at eye level or the astronomical horizon, but slightly below it. If the observer is 200 m above the surface, then the dip of the horizon is γ = acos(R/(R+h)) = acos(6371 km / (6371 km + 200 m)) = 0.45°. Therefore, the observer can see 0.45° below the eye level.
Due to atmospheric refraction, we can also observe the Sun and the Moon even if geometrically they are slightly below the horizon. Atmospheric refraction raises celestial objects close to the horizon upward by about 34 arcminutes or 0.57°. In the case of our lunar eclipse, atmospheric refraction raises the Sun, and the Moon upward by 0.57°. To simplify things, we add it to the figure of the dip of the horizon above.
@@macmac9371 not at all flerf.
If the Sun, Earth, and the antisolar point are in a straight line, then, geometrically, the observer must be slightly off the straight line, and we need to account for the lunar parallax. Due to this, it will lower the position of the Moon as seen by the observer by atan(Earth’s radius / Moon’s distance) = atan(6371 km / 384400 km) = 0,95°.
From all of these numbers, we can explain how the so-called “impossible eclipse” can occur in the spherical Earth model, with plenty of wiggle room.
Entonces la luna es plana
You are kidding right? Bro.
You used blue tape. A real scientist would have used green.
Я отношусь скептически к такой модели.
Никакого масштаба, нет точности. Прикрепили линзу... Бред какой-то.