I remember 2019 G2 picking it for Wunder. Granted it was more of a troll pick (dude wqs reading Garen's abilities on stage) and it lost, but it was picked
When Adam plays it it's a whole different story. He tries for early solo kills, often manages to roam and lategame positions very well around objectives to catch the enemy carries and one shot them. All other Garens are the same though.
@@Elijahgoods adam's garen is not stronger than the garen playred here, that's the point i'm making. it LOOKS stronger because he's played it into EU, NA, and wildcard regions. the only asian team he's played garen into is JDG, and they destroyed him.
@@eVillGaming-eng you're watching a dog stack and garen spin the wave. Nothing gets more complicated gameplay than that. It's only at teamfights you get to see them fight
Caedrel, in these ~11 years of LoL playing and content consumption, I can safely say that you are the best, most entertaining and charismatic content creator I've ever had the pleasure of watching. Thank you for making E-sports viewing a lot of fun! Love your insights and reactions
I still like that everybody is ganging up on the nasus pick becoming a trend while chovy is thinking "hmmm how to counter a nasus" assuming nasus gets picked by picking garen. It's a proven effective garen vs nasus against faker in soloq :D
leaving ziggs up all 3 games make it much harder to read the matchup when they meet back up in the finals and ziggs finally gets banned. dk fans take this as an absolute W
@@Sukurumi so far yes and before Riot adds another international next year pre-spring. This is literally GEN.G last chance to win a Golden Road before the Competitive Calendar Overhaul
Chovy just has infinite aura. That W in game was so int, but DK just instantly back off. Any other mid in the world and they're getting engaged on by Malphite and Rell.
You realize it's played here as a specific counterpick match up? It's not like Garen can be blind picked. And if you're complaining that his kit is simple yet powerful, why don't you have a problem with the Blitzcrank pick?
Not really. When adcs are so strong anything thats both tanky and wins lane (and even has sidelane push) can be played. Like any champion that meets those 3 conditions can be played. This isnt Adam picking garen to carry, its just chovy getting side push and being annoying
GenG prepared extremely well for the match against DK, the coach and players are putting their hearts into the game AND SOME HATERS keep yapping “boring boring 3-0” 🧐 I hope GENG will clear their fav team 3-0 so they can keep yapping all day
@@chillin21He is talking about the level of play. It's like saying Barca was shit in 2010 because they didn't win the CL. You clown are just a blind hater T1 fanboy. Sad.
Hi Caedrel, you probably won't see this but I have a hearing disability that means I can't really understand you very well at times when both you and the commentary team are talking, so lowering the volume of the commentary by just a tad would be incredible 😊
if you think showmaker was the problem this series, you are either a showmaker hater or just have 0 league knowledge. He played very well game 1, game 2 got counter picked and game 3 was lost since draft even though his taliyah shuffles almost got them back in the game. Maybe learn a bit of league before talking. Biggest problem BY FAR this series was DK coaching staff not banning ziggs and aiming underperforming as hell vs ziggs.
@@lubo4350 None of this was Aimings problem. The lane swaps plus the Ziggs and the weird mid matchups forced Aiming off of Hyper carries and made him completely invisible the whole series. No ADC in that position with those champs can win those series if everything else goes the same.
Garen vs Nasus mid reminds me of Wild Rift's 2023 esports meta where you'd get Jax vs Fiora midlane and other matchups where the mid lane basically became another top lane.
hear me out, riot implementing a general ban every series would make things so much more interesting, like one time they ban azir the next maokai, rell. would make for a fun change for the drafts. idk could be wrong here.
wait do you mean that the referees/riot themselves ban a specific champ before select? that's a terrible idea! imagine they banned ziggs. that hurts a good ziggs player, not someone who has only been practicing ziggs for a short while given meta changes. it is entirely unfair to the player who is better on the champ. geng and other teams ban LB because showmaker is good on her. teams ban draven against g2 because hans sama is good on him. you can't just have a general ban like that in league. if that's not what you meant, then it's all good! those are my thoughts anyhow.
In Game 1, where chovy jumps in. He propable tries to bait out cd/ult/flashes before the upcoming soal fight. He is willing to trade rell ult, malphite ult for his flash, so that DK have a harder time when fighting for dragon. So that there is no malphite in to mf or rell in to mf combo
GenG going absolutely insane but really bad drafts from DK in my opinion. Became clear in game 1 that Ziggs was the problem with its minefield control and tower power. Silly not to ban it.
11:53 focus on Kingen and Chovy, Chovy just W and Kingen just shortly died after that because Peyz Ult kill him, that's why Chovy W reset and then he just easily buffer Rell Q without having to use flash. What a luck for Chovy.
Nasus vs Garen is like watching an epic showdown between two legends! 🎉 Can't believe they made this match-up happen, feels like a breath of fresh air. And the chaos in that draft was something else, right? 😂 Can't wait to see how it wraps up!
Maokai ult, blitz hooks whoever tanks. A simple spell, but quite unbreakable. Despite popular belief, you can hook tanks and bruisers. Like they die before the enemy team can follow up if they arent close
38:07 If you add all digits in a number and end up with 3, 6 or 9, it's a multiple of 3, if not, it's not. So yes you could have known it wasn't a multiple of 3.
Its not if you end up with 3, 6 or 9. Any multiple of 3 works. For example, 285 ads up to 15, which is a multiple of 3. Yes, you can add the digits of 15, but thats overkill
they really should allow teams to ff man its disrespectful to both teams like game 3 damwon is done and they know gen g is good enough to close it out. Its good for mental, respects the winning team and spares the viewers from a objectively bad game to watch
@IrlasYAkobi chess isn't league. You rarely see people ff in bullet, especially if both sides are low on time. Because fast pace results in a lot of opportunities for comebacks.
okay if gala does what pays did and he just builds his archangels before liandry then I'm just doing that too I can never figure out if it's better like it seems better to do cuz it's just more AP and you're already stacked by the time you build it but like Liandry is like a better item overall but maybe not until after you have AP
@@ArcaneTricksterRS ye man sure, it really shows in their playrates! adding 50 mana cost on trsitana q makes her unplayable mid, such an impactful change.
@@ProtatoPvP im not talking about this series dipshit, im talking in general. worlds will be played on 14.18. all 3 champs have been touched here and there recently, yet they still dominate the pro play meta and have been for months. im just asking in general, why isn't riot doing anything about marksmen since in 14.17, a patch before worlds patch, not only did they not nerf these 3 or marksmen in general or at least some items, they even went on to buff caitlyn, kindred and graves. so unless riot does something in 14.18, we will probably be seeing 3 marksmen being played on a single team.
genuine question. why is yasuo being banned / played way more often recently? did he get insanely buffed? or new item(s) synergy? or they just randomly miraculously found team comps that work with him that don't have to completely sacrifice/depend on him? i searched this on google and all i get are still just answers/posts for why he's NOT relevant from years ago lol which is what i thought all this time, i don't follow league every single day so please no toxicity
ah wait does it have something to do with the adc mid meta? cuz caedrel just said something about mages going bot to farm towers and adcs going mid to have higher xp but does that apply to yasuo who's a melee AD squishy?
Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping @Manscaped with promo code CAEDREL at manscaped.com/caedrel #manscapedpartner
Bruh, the transition to this ad is smooth 🤣
Also, imagine having a spoiler block that pays you!
PogOff
code didnt work :(
Code doesn’t work for me either. Not following through with purchase and likely won’t remember to check back to see if it’s fixed. Sad ad
The first and second time Garen is unironically picked outside of Garen-Yuumi and Adam. Amazing.
I swear someone picked garen in lck this year before today.
@@sumitramahapatra2313Yep dudu picked him and it was awful
I remember 2019 G2 picking it for Wunder. Granted it was more of a troll pick (dude wqs reading Garen's abilities on stage) and it lost, but it was picked
moosehater was playing him in lcs academy like non stop for a while
Acknowleding Garen's supremacy in pro play is doing him justice he deserves xD
Kingen buying 4 glowing motes after getting completely blasted was the funniest shit istg😂😂😂
There's no way they let Peyz get Ziggs 3 times in row, right?
T1: HUH ?
... right ?
After the horror that is first game I thought that champ will never be seen again, but DK thinks he's not a problem
What about the mustache machine 3 games in a row?
@@solpport4276 and i can bet you that knowing t1 has a lot of their ego moments, they wiill do the same if they face geng
" Gen G made a big mistake by choosing Damwon over T1 "
people pretend like it's not gonna be another GenG T1 final 🤣🤣🤣
thanks
Wdym they 3-0d them I don’t think it was a mistake
@@bingliang1189 it's a meme since Caedrel said that since his rooting for DK
@@bingliang1189 im pretty sure its sarcasm unless your comment is also sarcastic
Garen played at the highest level looks suspiciously similar to Garen played at the lowest level. That champ ain't right.
When Adam plays it it's a whole different story. He tries for early solo kills, often manages to roam and lategame positions very well around objectives to catch the enemy carries and one shot them.
All other Garens are the same though.
Peak gameplay swing and R
@@return3d825 if you think the third best team in korea would not demolish adam's garen you're on something
@@rhys8457he’s not saying that in any way, he’s just explaining why adams garen is stronger then the garen played here
@@Elijahgoods adam's garen is not stronger than the garen playred here, that's the point i'm making. it LOOKS stronger because he's played it into EU, NA, and wildcard regions. the only asian team he's played garen into is JDG, and they destroyed him.
Editor slacking. I've had my food ready for 30 mins
That draft game 2 was complete madness 😂
Nasus vs Garen feels so fresh, ill take it over Corki vs next available Adc anyday rn
Yeah but Garen wins the matchup tempo wise, it's predictable till after midgame
@@skrattaoppar9753 uh counter matchups aren't boring jus cuz 1 champ is better in the match-up
@@eVillGaming-eng you're watching a dog stack and garen spin the wave. Nothing gets more complicated gameplay than that. It's only at teamfights you get to see them fight
Even steak gets boring if you eat it every day. Sometimes you just want a Big Mac.
Nasus vs garen its fun while its new, but if it was the staple it would be so boring
Don't want to spoil the match but that 5man Azir shuffle was insane at 1:07:50 and the 5 man fountain spawn was incredible.
🪴
Showmaker found a road. The reverse sweep is insane.
😂😂😂
I loved when they broke Chovy's left hand on stage to complete the reverse sweep
The 5 man fountain spawn at the start of the games were when DK was best coordinated. They all spawn at the same time
Manscaped sponsorship when 0 of caedrels viewers have facial hair is hilarious
kek
It's for the rat hairs
It ain’t for facial hair brother
Hey, at least it's not a Durex sponsorship
@@grahamsayle that logic applies to other regions aswell
game 5 draft was crazy
😂😂😂
Yes in a different timeline
did they ban ziggs
@@saleemiasim Ziggs ban, 1st pick Moai
crying as a dk fan
How bad of a coaching staff must DK have when they don't pick or ban Ziggs 3 times in a row
When he used to coach T1 and they said his drafts are garbage, people said T1 fans are just making excuses 🤡
@@MrDespisedIcon ok
@@MrDespisedIconand they were. And now its DK's turn
24:37 "im not saying he should die"
15secs later
24:53 "HE HAS TO DIE THERE"
Caedrel's the best
Caedrel, in these ~11 years of LoL playing and content consumption, I can safely say that you are the best, most entertaining and charismatic content creator I've ever had the pleasure of watching. Thank you for making E-sports viewing a lot of fun! Love your insights and reactions
2 of the best 3 mids ever playing Garen and Nasus is so funny to me. PHREAK SEASON
The fuck does Phreak got to with any of this
@@romankarol5370you mean the guy on the balancing team? Yeah, I wonder what he has to do with the meta
@@romankarol5370Found phreak's burner account
As a T1 fan, Gen G is in a complete different league this year
they are playing like AGI
Chovy infinite aura's just terrifying every lck team into submission
The true definition of “HIM”
Just unbelieveable Showmaker 16 lose streak series without win when GenG have chovy.
KT: Puny god
Sometimes it even leads opponents head into walls as we've seen
No wonder they need LPL to choke GenG since they are not that affected by his "Intimidate" ability upon entry. 🤣
43:15 Helikopter Helikopter
Chovy just straight up mind controlled them game 1: “I am not the yordle you are looking for”
Also Chovy: you will go home and rethink your life 😂
The fact the whole recap is already up is a spoiler in itself
@20:17 I love how Chovy was just playing in their backline. Their teamfight was unreal.
21:01 random portuguese swear caught me so off guard
PORTUGAL CARALHO
Caedrel emanating aura right here!!!
I still like that everybody is ganging up on the nasus pick becoming a trend while chovy is thinking "hmmm how to counter a nasus" assuming nasus gets picked by picking garen.
It's a proven effective garen vs nasus against faker in soloq :D
Chovy joining the operation GGG - Get Garen Gutted
leaving ziggs up all 3 games make it much harder to read the matchup when they meet back up in the finals and ziggs finally gets banned. dk fans take this as an absolute W
I swear I'm gonna have an aneurism if Gen G gets rolled in worlds after a dominating local performance again
They finally won an international this year at least
@@wailmerpailwe haven't seen an MSI winner win Worlds since 2016
@@skrattaoppar9753and wasnt that like the first and last time of any team doing that so far?
@@Sukurumi so far yes and before Riot adds another international next year pre-spring. This is literally GEN.G last chance to win a Golden Road before the Competitive Calendar Overhaul
@@skrattaoppar9753 wdym i thought golden road was never achieved by any team ? lol
man is no one gonna say anything about our boi’s smooth advertisement section? 😂😂😂
i really like watching caedrel, he has one of the best analyzing among the casters that i've watched but still creates interesting contents
Chovy just has infinite aura. That W in game was so int, but DK just instantly back off. Any other mid in the world and they're getting engaged on by Malphite and Rell.
Chovy has plot armor
it was a bait i think for malph ult but still
@@tryfergoodra552would still get his flash
21:38The fact that Ksante can hold a 1v4 for almost 10 seconds at 37min doesn't make any sense this champ is stupid
the fact garen can be played in highest level of pro is prof he needs changes...
You realize it's played here as a specific counterpick match up? It's not like Garen can be blind picked. And if you're complaining that his kit is simple yet powerful, why don't you have a problem with the Blitzcrank pick?
Not really. When adcs are so strong anything thats both tanky and wins lane (and even has sidelane push) can be played. Like any champion that meets those 3 conditions can be played. This isnt Adam picking garen to carry, its just chovy getting side push and being annoying
58:03 "Not sure if he knows about the Nasus behind him..." Love the caster's energy.
This was actually the most underwhelming series ever, and I was so excited...
52:06 flashback to Bin TPing top at MSI, during the Lehends Blitzcrank game
GenG prepared extremely well for the match against DK, the coach and players are putting their hearts into the game AND SOME HATERS keep yapping “boring boring 3-0” 🧐 I hope GENG will clear their fav team 3-0 so they can keep yapping all day
Bro geng have their first international trophy in like forever, you can pipe down with the glaze
Ok
@@chillin21He is talking about the level of play. It's like saying Barca was shit in 2010 because they didn't win the CL. You clown are just a blind hater T1 fanboy. Sad.
Don't glaze too hard😂😂
Holy cringe
The smooth transition into the ad read was pretty top
Hi Caedrel,
you probably won't see this but I have a hearing disability that means I can't really understand you very well at times when both you and the commentary team are talking, so lowering the volume of the commentary by just a tad would be incredible 😊
that would reduce the quality of the content for everyone else tho
I feel for kingen. Played well and got inted by his team and draft 3 games in a row
This series should have been email stating.
Dear GENG,
I am 2 levels and 100+ cs down at 25min mark.
GGEZ,
Showmaker
if you think showmaker was the problem this series, you are either a showmaker hater or just have 0 league knowledge. He played very well game 1, game 2 got counter picked and game 3 was lost since draft even though his taliyah shuffles almost got them back in the game.
Maybe learn a bit of league before talking. Biggest problem BY FAR this series was DK coaching staff not banning ziggs and aiming underperforming as hell vs ziggs.
@@lubo4350 None of this was Aimings problem. The lane swaps plus the Ziggs and the weird mid matchups forced Aiming off of Hyper carries and made him completely invisible the whole series. No ADC in that position with those champs can win those series if everything else goes the same.
@@lubo4350 pls sensei teach me about league and give me permission, so that I can comment.
This is so disgusting, it's like their mindset going in this series is " we're ready for losers bracket we won't even try.
chovy garen wholesome gigachad 100
Whoever said "285 is not a multiple of 3" needs to go back to pre-school
Garen vs Nasus mid reminds me of Wild Rift's 2023 esports meta where you'd get Jax vs Fiora midlane and other matchups where the mid lane basically became another top lane.
Even today, I still pick AD mids than AP mages. It's such a good pick tempo
Caedrel cancelled his ult against GenG, that's why they won.
If this was western teams everyone would be shouting myregion
The gap between GenG and every other team feels so much wider compared to the gap between the first and 2nd teams from other regions.
So uh should we spoiler block the top comment y’all?
Nah
The fact it says GenG in the title is already the spoiler.
Mr. Editor, I enjoy having Caedrel’s analysis in the video (if he does analysis obviously) in between games
It's so fucking funny because he genuinely believed that DK could win
I love Caedrel complaing about the observers doing a great job
bro 50:53 its so true but at the same time you KNOW aiming the gold king isnt going to let that happen
1:49 the prediction is crazy 😂
hear me out, riot implementing a general ban every series would make things so much more interesting, like one time they ban azir the next maokai, rell.
would make for a fun change for the drafts. idk could be wrong here.
wait do you mean that the referees/riot themselves ban a specific champ before select?
that's a terrible idea!
imagine they banned ziggs. that hurts a good ziggs player, not someone who has only been practicing ziggs for a short while given meta changes. it is entirely unfair to the player who is better on the champ. geng and other teams ban LB because showmaker is good on her. teams ban draven against g2 because hans sama is good on him. you can't just have a general ban like that in league.
if that's not what you meant, then it's all good! those are my thoughts anyhow.
Fearless draft works way better for forcing more diverse drafts, without giving an undeserved advantage to some teams
Bro this just dropped. The editor be going crazy rn 😂
Chevy Garen, what a time to be alive.
21:02 Brazilian slang mentioned!!!!
I absolutely love seeing the changes of the meta going into worlds. This is gonna be great
01:02:29 DK did the LPL strat: if behind, just fight constantly
The second match was a solo queue fucking fiesta. And I am all for it!
I want to see Peyz Veigar now.
Also Malphite into Ziggs Trist might be the most criminal fucking thing DK did this whole series.
In Game 1, where chovy jumps in. He propable tries to bait out cd/ult/flashes before the upcoming soal fight. He is willing to trade rell ult, malphite ult for his flash, so that DK have a harder time when fighting for dragon. So that there is no malphite in to mf or rell in to mf combo
His flash is much more valuable than those
His flash is more valuable than rell flash or malphite r. I think he wanted to insec rell but maybe tought better half way?
**200yrs champs get released, triple adc meta**
Nasus & Garen: “prepare for trouble, and make it double!”
34:48 I'm actually SHOCKED that Keria is THAT high. bro. he started in 2020 HOW IS HE THAT HIGH
All drafts in this series are absolute circus
if you add the digits in a number and that number is a multiple of 3 then the original number is too btw.
GenG going absolutely insane but really bad drafts from DK in my opinion. Became clear in game 1 that Ziggs was the problem with its minefield control and tower power. Silly not to ban it.
Losing game 2 with such a great early game was criminal. Damwon’s macro (and drafting) was really triggering.
I never thought I would see Garen in the LCK
Ah yes, the T-shirt that signals to people "HELLO I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW I HAVE EXQUISITELY SHAVED BALLS", just what I was looking for
11:53 focus on Kingen and Chovy, Chovy just W and Kingen just shortly died after that because Peyz Ult kill him, that's why Chovy W reset and then he just easily buffer Rell Q without having to use flash. What a luck for Chovy.
Now i feel even more bad for Adam. This patch was so good for his Garen and he got reverse swept
Was not ready for that commercials 💈😭
Lil pup acting like he’s ever had to shave in his life AINTNOWAY
GENG just annihilated DK frauds xdd
At least this series was interesting, love it when GENG and D+ meet causes its always wild
3:28 I DIED LAUGHING AT THE AD PULGGGGG HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
Who will win? One SPINNY BOI or One STACKING DOGE?
Stacks win in long games.
ziggs 3x
@@hahayessir400 This isn't your silver soloQ, buddy.
@@hahayessir400garen smashes nasus
And it doesnt matter because there are 4 other players on both teams
How come no team have figured out how to counter Nasus before Gen G ?
Just camp the shit out of him. Showmaker in game 2, Kingen in game 3
Not even a DK fan, but I felt embarrassed for them watching these games and drafts. Brutal shit
Nasus vs Garen is like watching an epic showdown between two legends! 🎉 Can't believe they made this match-up happen, feels like a breath of fresh air. And the chaos in that draft was something else, right? 😂 Can't wait to see how it wraps up!
Except the two legends just bought tickets to watch
33:39 famous last words xdd
"Blitzcrank is useless"
Maokai ult, blitz hooks whoever tanks. A simple spell, but quite unbreakable.
Despite popular belief, you can hook tanks and bruisers. Like they die before the enemy team can follow up if they arent close
51:18 my thhoughts exactly my lil brain cant handle it AHAHAH
SPOILER: they didn't ban Ziggs
38:07 If you add all digits in a number and end up with 3, 6 or 9, it's a multiple of 3, if not, it's not. So yes you could have known it wasn't a multiple of 3.
Its not if you end up with 3, 6 or 9. Any multiple of 3 works. For example, 285 ads up to 15, which is a multiple of 3. Yes, you can add the digits of 15, but thats overkill
@@alex2005z Well yeah obviously If you end up with a multiple digit number you just keep going
they really should allow teams to ff man its disrespectful to both teams like game 3 damwon is done and they know gen g is good enough to close it out. Its good for mental, respects the winning team and spares the viewers from a objectively bad game to watch
Nah thats stupid. People have made comebacks from even the worst situations already
let the team decide if they want to even try no ? mental is huge in a series
@@IrlasYAkobi the option for surrendering being there only makes it worse for your mental.
@@alex2005z i do not see how that could possibly be the case. we resign in chess all the time
@IrlasYAkobi chess isn't league. You rarely see people ff in bullet, especially if both sides are low on time. Because fast pace results in a lot of opportunities for comebacks.
okay if gala does what pays did and he just builds his archangels before liandry then I'm just doing that too I can never figure out if it's better like it seems better to do cuz it's just more AP and you're already stacked by the time you build it but like Liandry is like a better item overall but maybe not until after you have AP
21:00 Bro really dropped the "ai caralho"
33:39
Blitz alone is useless, Blitz with Maokai is scary af
I muted the video and it became 10000x better
Why he commentating a commented video?
Thats what a costream is. If you want the official broadcast watch the official broadcast
Gen G Ai , counterplays counterplays
I already knew who won by the font size of the names…
4:10 end of scam
how aren't either tristana, smolder or corki even touched for worlds patch?
Corki and Trist were nerfed quite a lot over the past patches, either directly or indirectly.
@@ArcaneTricksterRS ye man sure, it really shows in their playrates!
adding 50 mana cost on trsitana q makes her unplayable mid, such an impactful change.
Keyword: worlds, is this look worlds to you?
New skins incoming
@@ProtatoPvP im not talking about this series dipshit, im talking in general. worlds will be played on 14.18. all 3 champs have been touched here and there recently, yet they still dominate the pro play meta and have been for months. im just asking in general, why isn't riot doing anything about marksmen since in 14.17, a patch before worlds patch, not only did they not nerf these 3 or marksmen in general or at least some items, they even went on to buff caitlyn, kindred and graves. so unless riot does something in 14.18, we will probably be seeing 3 marksmen being played on a single team.
Phreak is in shambles right now
genuine question. why is yasuo being banned / played way more often recently? did he get insanely buffed? or new item(s) synergy? or they just randomly miraculously found team comps that work with him that don't have to completely sacrifice/depend on him? i searched this on google and all i get are still just answers/posts for why he's NOT relevant from years ago lol which is what i thought all this time, i don't follow league every single day so please no toxicity
ah wait does it have something to do with the adc mid meta? cuz caedrel just said something about mages going bot to farm towers and adcs going mid to have higher xp but does that apply to yasuo who's a melee AD squishy?
Corki Kiin game 2, Corki Peyz game 3?? Ziggs Peyz game 1+2 and Ziggs Chovy game 3??? 🤨🤔
GenG is cooking! 🐯🍖🍲🍜🍱
Petition for an automatic anti spoiler message on all Caedrel videos
Wow. Ziggs kicked our ass game 1. Its ok, he wont do it again. Oh, he kicked our ass game 2. Surely he cant do it a 3rd time right?
they probably had the Z letter removed from their keyboards, otherwise i dont get why they didnt ban ziggs once at all