If you DON'T use the Standard Phonetic Spelling Alphabet
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Sometimes I quite like non-standard phonetics, for instance "Suga-Papa" (Poland) and "George Four XYZ" for an older UK callsign, it's important we recognise when and when NOT to deviate from the standards. See what you think anyway. I know this isn't set in stone, but this video is for just some guidance that newbies might find helpful. If you follow the "rules" I find that it also helps me when I'm "in the chair" running a pile-up. Callum.
Link: Here's the "official" one that seems to work for me. You might know of a better one: en.wikipedia.o...
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As a train driver of 15 years and also have an aviation background I’m programmed to hear the nato-phonetic alphabet… when people deviate from it I actually have to think so much harder to try and decode it. Regarding your question the aviation standard is the NATO alphabet now and the universal language is English no matter where you are in the world.
Thank you!
Must be a train driver day lol,iam 26 years in as well:) hopefully only another 5.5yrs to go
@@DXCommanderHQ no problem. If I had the space I’d explain all about minimising task saturation, focus shift avoidance and situational awareness but I don’t… and to be honest it’s probably quite boring. 😂
@@andy2E0JIU mate! Hope you’re looking forward the retirement. I was medically retired from everything a few years back after a spinal issue, 2 emergency surgeries and had to learn to walk again. I spent a couple of years hoping I’d get fit enough to be able to get through the medical again and by the time I realised it was never going to happen I was trapped into having to wait until full retirement age before being able to claim my pension. Oh well, only another 6 years to go.
Same is the case with me, being a pilot and with a military background..... if some one deviates from the correct phoetics, my brain goes into decodeing mode and I lose all the information he is trying to give... just like Cal another person with ADHD and OCD togather.
Finally! Someone with the guts to call out the people that will not use the proper words!
When I was on a tech support line for a long time, I got tired of people not understanding normal letters I would need them to type, and so I finally got tired of thinking of words to use and looked up the proper alphabet... The only problem is, that people STILL had problems doing it correctly, even though I was on a phone headset!!!
I agree it drives me up the wall.
Guts? With the greatest of respect to Cal after all he's done for radio on UA-cam he's hardly Malcolm X in this situation, and people do complain about this a lot. Like, he's not gonna get black-bagged for saying it.
@markpentler - as a side note, if you ever publish something that MIGHT be very slightly contentious - you do get flamed.. Try it yourself :)
I agree. It takes me longer to work out what a call sign is if they are using an alternative alphabet
Same here, I then miss other info or even the end of their callsign because im figuring out what the are saying
These are just a few of the very good reasons to stick to the ITU alphabet. Good on you for speaking up about it!
I fully concur with you on this point, this really rattles my cage when people use made up phonetics.👍🏻
Thank you for bringing this up. To add: This helps HAM operators with hearing disabilities enjoy the hobby. "Sugar" is a bad one for me to make out.
The one exception I make is for India. But, only if speaking to an Italian station that first identifies with his call sign and says Italy for the first letter instead of India. If they say Italy, which is usually the case, I feel like I should also return with Italy in their call sign. Otherwise, it’s always India for “I” and the NATO Phonetic Alphabet.
Well said Cal. It's not that long ago that one of our GI amateurs over here had the experience of hearing a QRP SOTA operator in trouble on a summit in Wales. Being well versed in the nato phonetic alphabet she was able to accurately record the information from the SOTA operator that needed the assistance and was able to relay this to the emergency services on the phone which resulted in an air ambulance being dispatched to the scene to help the stricken SOTA op. We just never know when our hobby can become such an important role in helping another.
Great story Sid!
I agree. I get so mixed up when people do not use the Phonetic Alphabet. thank you for the video Cal.
I’m in aviation and no difference there on the radio comms. We use the standard, the same we should use in the ham world too as you say here. Finally someone that is talking about this subject. 73
I have a civil aviation background of almost 30 years so I always stick to the NATO alphabet. I’m also old enough to remember some hams years ago who were probably around prior to that alphabet being adopted and using earlier forms
Hi Cal, both military and civil aviation use the standard phonetic alphabet but even then, there are those that think it sounds "cool" to abbreviate certain characters such "fox" for foxtrot and "jules" for juliet. I'm with your thinking though that it just sounds a bit "gash".
One anomaly is that we also still use elements of the Q code in flying and these are spoken normally rather than phonetically, just as in amateur radio. Examples heard regularly are "QFE" and "QNH" when referring to pressure settings but because they are instantly recognisable within a phrase, they stand out well.
There is a CAA document called CAP413 that details both civilian and unclassified military phraseology and is freely available at publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413%20E23%20A1%2026Nov2020.pdf
Nice comment. Thanks.
As a neurodiverse individual I’ve learned the standard phonetic alphabet. Throw something else in there and it’s a short circuit upstairs. Pretty much the same as changing the dits and dahs in a Morse character and expecting one to still copy correctly. 73. Stay well all!
Oh yes!
Same here. ADHD I'm listening for standard NATO if somebody says G0 as German zero I think J0. Jurmanee
Also Have you tried Bionic Reading. I can read so much faster and not read the same sentence 4 times when my brain decides not to work.
I do not have ducks, and they are not in a row but I have squirrels and they’re at a freaking rave!@@k23outdoorsandamateurradio11
I remember making this very point on a forum and I was pilloried, mostly by colonials 😀
As a serving forces operator it really throws me when folk use alternative phonetics. Radio Clubs and national bodies such as RSGB have a responsibility to teach operators to use standardised terminology and call out sloppy practice.
Thanks for raising this👍🏻
Sorry to hear that. As Callum has said, there are "arseholes" to be found in every aspect of society. We just can't let that ruin our enjoyment of the hobby. At least here in the radio hobby, the "silent treatment" can be effective... And there is always the method that is used in the 160m ban; "... What was that? Can't hear you... Could you give me your call sign again?... No good, one more time... No, still did not copy..."
Thank you for this one Cal!! I am a Air Traffic Controller by day. When I get home and jump on the rig and hear the "letters" people say, it drives me up a wall. You nailed it, the phonetic alphabet was developed so letters can not be mistaken for others. Please everyone try to use this!!
ATC.. Fabulous.
Last weekend here in Michigan USA, we had our fall ARES exercise. Part of our exercise was coordinating with local law enforcement which became a bit tricky with the phonetics. As a radio operator, I use the international alphabet that you mentioned. The police have their own though, it goes like Adam Boy Charles David ... We figured it out of course but we both had to do a bit more thinking than should be necessary.
OMG!
yes the police use their own phonetics..they are bad in my opinion
time the US cops got up to date! (UK cops use international).
@@ynot6473Good luck with that!
That seams odd to me. I would think law enforcement would use something more well reasurched and trained not pull names out of a hat which will automatically be mixed up with actual team members and suspects or victims. This is off they should check out the FCC and go with the tried tested and true phonetic alphabet.
After serving in the Military and working with uniform miltiary as a civiy in the radio field, It makes it easier to talk over bad phone connections and radio connections. I also have friends who are paramedic and Police that use the same radio procedures aswell. I feel it sounds very sloppy, like some of the phone operators that try and spell things out to you 🙁. Thanks for speaking up about it too.
my interest in aviation leads me to channels like VASaviation which feature recordings of actual air traffic communication. this has helped me with amateur radio as i'm already familiar with the international standard "phonetic" alphabet.
Some of the unique phonetics used by some hams is frustrating because the NATO phonetics has been ingrained into me for over 40 years, so hearing some of the weird phonetics make it difficult to catch the actual meanings. Yes my experience is Aviation (US and International) as an air traffic controller.
! 1000% agree here, seems like nothing but really makes the difference and helps the new guys.
Yes Callum. Thank-you. I really appreciate you using and recommend using the phonetic alphabet.
Any time!
Agree Callum. It’s common sense to use the correct phonetics. If we all used it there is no thinking. It makes life so much easier.
Thank you Callum. I was an intercept operator in the 70’s. I have trouble using anything but the NATO/International phonetics. By the way, great channel. I’ve gained a lot from your “on the air” streams. Loved my time in the UK.
Very kind of you thanks!
Totally agree, when listening in the noise for a callsign you are expecting the set words, even if you get half a word ‘vember’ you know it’s November.
Cock-on!
As a USAF veteran, I adhere to the NATO method that we used in the service.
Loving these 'rants' Callum. Singing from the same hymn sheet helps keeping us all in tune.
Regards from Germany One Juniper Siberia Flipflops ??? 😀
You got it right! Aviation uses the same phonetic alphabet internationally. Our local law enforcement (and most in the USA), however, uses a different phonetic alphabet: Adam, Baker (or Boy), Charles, David, Edward, etc... Only a few letters match the NATO alphabet.
Strange, given that the NATO alphabet was devised by US researchers.
You are so right. It jars to hear incorrect phonetic alphabet . Keep up the good work.
Tnx Tony!!
You are totally correct! I heard a "Band police" wally telling someone off for not operating correctly but the wally was using non standard phonetics!
When you take the RYA radio course for sailing they test you on the NATO alphabet.
I am not aware aviation is different and I listen to the Airband and I haven't noticed any differences.
Another aspect about the NATO Alphabet, is that it is designed so that no two words have the same sounding syllables. That means in noisy conditions, if you only hear half of the word you can still work out what it is. So Nov.. or ...Ber you c an still work out that the word in November.
Andy
Andy, I know...! Tell that to the rest!
I use the NATO spelling alphebet as default, but sometimes I have to repeat mu suffix (EJ) i use «echo - japan» and this seems to work better. It might be that my pronunciation of «juliette» is hard to understand ? Very nice video Cal - I really like that you always has real content even if you call it a rant😊
Nothing like a good alternative!
I only use alternatives when I'm not being understood by the other party - mostly when I hear others using those same alternatives on the frequency.
YES THANK YOU FINALLY SOMEONE WHO MATTERS BRINGS THIS UP!
i am so sick of the fantasy alphabets for extactly that reason.
i am doing a lot of dx, and my antenna system isnt the worst - so when i hear bits and peaces, and one of them is yokohama - it may well lead to me turning my antenna to japan.
The military knows it, lives depend on getting a message across - if it would not matter, they would not have introduced the NATO-alphabet.
I was licensed in germany, we have our very own national alphabet that is in use with the police
anton berta cäsar dora emil... and so on i believe it goes.
GUESS WHAT - i did not learn those, we were officially trained and tested by the german Bundespost - on the NATO-Alphabet!!!
It is was law for german radio amateurs so to speak (pun intentional)
now i live in Finland, and they give a phuk about the NATO-Alphabet (we were not in nato until recently and stick to ourselves anyways, few speak english.. most just oxidise on 80m)
here they use the national alphabet in amateur radio... and when they talk to foreigners, they sometimes struggle hard to get the nato-alphabet out. But they are trying.
(I say they, because i speak better english than my native tongue - and i dont share the same struggles)
Anyhow - i get that people use an alternative spelling, if the nato spelling is not understood - but i would not recommend to start out with a phantasy alphabet.
Always spell it right first, and if not understood do a variation (maybe the old american baker instead of bravo)
-----
personally i struggle with the X in my call .. no one ever understand X-ray the first time ever. It drives me mad.
my call goes OH8XAT - if i use the nato alphabet, it is guaranteed i have to repeat it several times.
So the 2nd time i would say: Oscar hotel 8 extreme agressive telegraphy (XAT) - this gets it across.
-----------
ps: i think aviation uses the same alphabet - the funny feeling you have comes from the fact that they pronounce as bad as humanly possible and as fast as possible and sometimes incomplete.
OH-SHT
a) spell correctly, there are reasons for standards.
b) aviation can fly planes, but lack ability to speak calm and pronouce clearly (occupational hazard in busy airspaces maybe)
- and often their radios are potatoes, and they would be better off using morsetelegraphy.
Hello Timo! This is interesting because when I say X-RAY with my home call (M0MCX) it almost never fails.. I wonder why.
@@DXCommanderHQ i have a theory that works for finnland only:
X is not in the natve alphabet here.
Finns call for a TAKSI not TAXI - we have no need for X here. People are not used to it.
But outside of finland, germans.. i dont know. Maybe my personal sound pattern
is weird? i lack a couple of teeth , maybe its that? hi hi
i dont know.
A`lpha G`olf R`omeo E`cho E`cho Known this speach since the 80's, And that was SSB on CB, DXing all over the place.
I would normally agree with you and I stick to the standard phonetics. Except in my call I have a Q Quebec I always get questions, maybe it's me but it seems Queen gets across better.
Try it.. Stick at it for a couple weeks as QUEBEC and listen back to yourself.. You might be lowering your voice or something..
Oh,my long suffering wife was helping me transcribe a paper contest log into the pc years ago. We got to a station from Guernsey and she said "Golf Umbrella" 😄
FUNNY!
Callum it's great to hear someone calling out about people not using the correct voice procedures especially the phonetic alphabet, it really gribes me to hear alternative it's not right, have a great day
So last night, a french guy was shouting his 4 letter call starting with Undecipherable then a number and two letters that I copied.. I listened and listened and couldn't work it out.. It happened to be TEXAS but with his compression set so high, all I heard was garbled baloney. As soon as he swapped to TANGO, I got it.
I am finding a lot of UK calls have starting to use these unknown phonetics and I once responded to a call shouting CQ with a call sign like M*GGG and using Mexico as the first letter so I responded to him as if he was in Mexico and he repeated Mexico *GGG so I returned and said Mexico station calling, funny enough he didn't come back to me lol @@DXCommanderHQ
I highly prefer that people use the standard phonetics, but I don't get too angry if somebody doesn't. Reason being there used to be an infamous operator here in the States, Myron "Mike" Premus W2OY, who would go on 10, 20, 30 minute tirades when people didn't use the standard phonetics. He knew how to get a huge signal out there as well which made it all the worse. Some of these tirades landed him in trouble with the FCC. He's a great example of why taking a deep breath sometimes is a great idea in ham radio.
As a fairly new operator this is my number 1 pet peeve. I am retired military and a retired police officer so I have learned both phonetic alphabets....NATO and civilian and when you throw Germany....Shenandoah,.....portugal..... like you; I'm lost
I 100% agree with you Charlie Alpha Lima, why people use anything different is beyond me.
In the U.S. we use the standard Alfa, Bravo, Charlie… My dad was in law enforcement and the used mostly names, Adam, Boy (some used Baker), Charles, David, Edward… As I grew up around law enforcement, became a ham at age 12, and now also being a pilot, I can rattle either one off without error. Law enforcement agencies in the U.S. have now adopted the NATO Phonetics.
100%!!! Some think they are being cute but instead are being unclear.
good for you for speaking up. You are so right.
I've heard cleaver phonetics for call signs on feild day, but after the 3rd time repeating it....
Yes!!! And PLEASE stop blooming using Guatemala 🙈🙈🙈 hard enough to spell without that being thrown in
HAHA Yes!
And sodding "Antidisestablishmentarianism"
My call is KG4VLN and sometimes I say GOLF and sometimes I say Germany. I just checked the NATO phonetic alphabet and I am proud to say I've always stuck by it for all the other letters in my call. I wasn't sure whether it was Norway or November that was the recommended phonetic. I've been saying November all these years per the Nato Phonetic Alphabet. 73 Kilo Golf Four Victor Lima November....
Hi Calumm. I found my fat dipole antenna article. (arrl compendium vol. 2 pages 106-107). I’m going to try this on 20 meters
I get so frustrated when I hear non-military vocalizations of Callsigns like Japan and Sugar. I’m getting more used to them now but when I first started out it would always throw me off. Thanks for making this video. Hopefully it will precipitate some change.
Good point!
Then there was the version used in On the Buses, which meant Stan Butler was Sugar Bertie.
Seventy Three. Mike Seven Tango Uniform Delta.
Taught to use the nato alphabet all of the time but if theres a linguistic barrier, pronouciation issue ie Yankee being replaced with Yokohama or Sierra - Sugar or Oscar - Oslo its okay to do so but making stuff up yeah.
Swedish operators should take note of this (joke).
Agree, but its not just about the first letter of whatever word is substituted, e.g if you for example under poor signal conditions you heard just the last part of U for uniform as iform as we all know the standard word used, its much easier to work out each letter rather than having to guess the last half of what some random letter someone has chosen.
Hello great video! I’m an airline pilot in the US and we use the same list you portrayed on the video.
Awesome! Thank you!
We’ve had several rants about this in our videos. Favorites are the cutesy ones (Monkey’s, Spoiled, Bananas)…. Nothing wrong with showing off your creativity, but can we use standard at least until the contact is established and then drag it out!? Nothing puts the brakes on a pota activation or a contest roll faster than a bizarre alphabet choice. You can feel the pen actually shake in your hand as your brain has a mini stroke trying to find a different gear…. Btw, was in aviation for 30yrs and it was all standard (U.S)..
I generally agree. But my call ends with G. When I'm asked to repeat it the third time, I switch to "Germany".
You may be looking for ICAO (international civil aviation organization, although I'm surprised the the French haven't made it OIAC).
Yeah, I mentioned that.. I WONDER if you can change the technique..?
Glad you didn't hold back Callum.😂
I've seen UA-cam videos of some in Europe using "sugar". 🤷♂️
Yep. Read description because Suga-Papa is normal for Poland.. Suga and Queen seem to be quite interchangeable... But there are folks who are marginal - these guys should try and stick to the formats.. Once you have a great S9 signal with your "opponent", sure - you can be as lazy as you need to be :) (not for you - but for those folks who read the comments!)
@@DXCommanderHQ There is a ham in Indiana who's call ends with SZZ which he speaks phonetically as "Sugar Zed Zed"
Australian based pilot here - Same phonetic alphabet we use to communicate. It's global. I even see in French flying videos many pilots speaking French using the same phonetic alphabet, yes.. English words alongside French comms.
Maybe another thing to point out which I think you're almost alluding to is Phraseology. Not just what you say, or how you say it but the order in which it's said. This is also very important in aviation radio communication.
Oh yes, in your case, the order will be important! Very fine. Thanks.
Completely agree Callum. When people call into my pileups with none standard phonetics I sometimes have to stop & think about it. It can often throw you & results in asking for repeats which wouldn't otherwise have been needed.
As another interesting observation, if someone calls me with non-standard phonetics & I reply to them with standard phonetics, sometimes it takes a couple of tries before they reply to me, even if they give me a 59 report. I think they get so used to their own made up phonetics that it confuses them when you use the standard (which anyone who has been in the hobby for any length of time should know without having to think about it)!
If I've given them my callsign 2-3 times & they haven't got it then I might deviate & try other commonly used phonetics (like Germany instead of Golf for example) but generally I stick to the standard.
2nd paragraph.. That's quite funny!
Agree 100% Cal!
Just use standard "standard" phonetics! 4:30
I often co-control on an HF net, and guys calling-in, using "germany" and "zanzibar" and "ecuador" and "yellow" (or "yokahama"), and "ocean"... just irritate the hell out of me. 😂 When I do respond to them, I will always confirm their call using "standard" phonetics, and most times they will repeat back, also using the standard [correct] terms. It works, (almost) every time.
Now, I worked for a public agency (for many years, now retired), and we often worked with police and fire services (over the radio). In most of the US, there is a different phonetic alphabet used for those services:
Adam, Boy (or Baker), Charles, David, Edward, Frank, George, Henry... etc. (basically all common names). It was quite effective. Occasionally however, I would slip and use the 'standard" international version (but I was always corrected by the dispatcher 😮). Of course, with those trunked/repeater system comm's, we were never dealing with any QRM or QSB, so it was an effective way to ensure accurate information was relayed.
Anyway, as always, great stuff mate!
73 from west Texas,
William-Five-Adam-Robert-Mary 😅
Yes, all good.
I have really bad tinnitus, thanks to aircraft, (100 ft off the runway with portable ATC facility) test tones, (radio repair for previous mention) and rifles (rifleman first bunch of guys). I wish more folks would take this seriously. I know I'm not alone with this problem. Aviation uses the same and has at least back to the 1980's. Probably longer but that's all I can account for personally.
Being ex-British Army I only know the NATO phonetic alphabet
In Australian aviation at least its word and emphasized pronunciation.
alffaa, bravoh, charlee, deltah, ekkoh, foxxtrot, golff, hotell, iindiaa, jooliett, keelow, limma, mikke, novembarr, osscar, parpar, quubekk, romeeo, seeairraa, tangoh, uneeform, whisskee, x ray, yankee, zooloo
Yes!
As a teenage ham there was a YL who used to announce my callsign as GM4 Strong Virile Man. Until the radio club secretary took her aside and said "you can't be calling that boy that on the air". So she changed it to GM4 Sweet and Very Mushy.
Oh goodness!
Hey there Callum, M0MCX, KJ7L (John) here. Hope to QRV in 2024. Just wanted to say that phonetics do indeed vary from country to country and some operators take their liberties with the end goal of ID-ing themselves. I learned a phonetic code from the US Army and I realize that other operators may not use the same. So long as contacts and callsigns are transmitted and received accurately, who am I to complain? 73, John KJ7L and I hope to QRZ in 2024 with you! Great posting m8!
Well, I think you said it all here: "So long as contacts and callsigns are transmitted and received accurately" but I don't find it so.
Aviation definitely uses it Callum, it's international. I first learnt it way back in 1962 while serving in the Canadian Army Militia. I was trained on old WWII No. 19 sets.😀
(Sometimes, if the station is simply not getting my full call, I will repeat the "NATO" pronunciation a few times, then emphasize the difficult letter (often the Z in my call -- by saying for example" ZOO-LOO, ZOO-LOO, zan-ZEE-bar, zan-ZEE-bar. That does work, but I think one should definitely not use those old-time DX-er city, country or non-standard phonetics, unless the standard is simply not working for the other station and you're desperate to log the contact). Cheers, Bob VE7EZI.
Indeed, get creative if your opponent gets a mental block!
I have a really hard time when people use kilowatt as a phonetic because I have spent my entire working career writing kilowatt as kW. My brain wants to write down KW1STG rather than K1STG, using my own callsign as an example. 😆
I could not agree more!
Correct: Vast amounts of effort were put into devising an alphabet that could be used by as many people as possible for the aviation industry, it's as reliable as you can get and every muppet trying to invent an alternative destroys its reliability and in some cases safety. Moser and Dreher 1954 "Letter -Digit interaction", Technical report no 8 (Project 519) Ohio State University Research Foundation to Air Research and Develpment Command Contract AF18(600)316,1954.
Beautiful.
When I got my foundation licence and started browsing the airwaves, I was shocked at how common it is for people to use non standard phonetics. I've heard various specious excuses, but none that make sense. I get the feeling some people actively refuse to use the NATO standard even though they know it.
Just another reason to stick with data modes 😂
Yep and it was part of the Regulations section of the exam to boot.
We spent millions of dollars, pounds, marks, and francs to make the NATO phonetics as clear as possible for as many accents of the English language as possible. Kilowatt to me is K W. Zanzibar is "I'm at a bar"
Well, very good!
some people have a speech impairment where they cant say ONE of those words in the phonetic abc, so its okay to use a different one. If I use Charlie then 8/10 times the other guy cant pick it out. So if I use something else, the other guy gets my call clear so im not holding up the pile up. Keep up the good work
Never heard of that impairment, what's it called
@@lexheath8276 Japanese have problems with V, L and a few more. It is not a "speech impairment" just a fact that the letters are not native to the Japanese language.
You also have the same problem with languates that use a very "Rattle" R... The sound like RRRRRRRRoger....RRRRRRomeo. Again, not a speech impairment, just the way they native languate is spoken.
dont know the exact name. but i cant say R right. SO my charlie sounds unintelligible especially on weak signals@@lexheath8276
@@japanham5973 Nice answer.
I have problems with glottal stops and guttural. Korean and German are safe from me.
As far as aviation goes, they use the same, or nearly the same alphabet. There, it's commonly known as the ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) alphabet.
Between EMS, cubs, scouts and military training since very young and now Morse code training, I have NATO / ICAO / IARU pretty much hammered into my head. It does give me pause to think about what letter words start with, as our brains recognise words, not the letters. This makes it harder to understand.
It is my opinion that it is yet another example of people being unwilling to follow rules and standards established for good reason, another sign of the anarchy bashing its way into society.
On the radio, internationally, I hear for, "R", both "ROH-MAY-OH" and "ROH-MEE-OH", for phonetic ROMEO.
Thanks. Agree, much harder when people don't comply. Also leads to more confusion.
By the way, the correct pronunciation is required in Germany in the exam.
Well, I didn't know that!
My call sign is AI4GK. I use the standard phonetic alphabet, although I have to confess that occasionally, if I'm not being heard, I will use America Italy 4 Germany Kilowatt. We had a ham (now a silent key) locally who, when someone used Kilowatt would say, "Is that K-W?" Finally, I find it amusing when I'm dealing with customer support. People who don't know the standard phonetic alphabet and a go through verbal contortions. As in spelling, my name, like Daffodil, Aneurysm, Nova Scotia! It would be so much easier for them to be taught the NATO alphabet!
Alternatives can be very funny!
M0! Kudos! Here in Switzerland, the telephone operators learned to spell with boys' and girls' names. Anton, Berta, Caesar, Dora, Emil Friedrich, Gustav, Heinrich, Ida, Julius Konrad Ludwig, Martha, Nordpol (not a person's name) Otto Paula, Quelle, Richard Siegfried, Theodor, Ulrich Viktor, Wilhelm, Xaver Ypsilon Zurich (of course!). I have purposely skipped the umlauts and the Sch and ss characters. Aviation (civil or military) use the NATO sequence. I always use the NATO sequence in Switzerland because it is intelligible to German and French speakers too. Best, Rob in Switzerland.
Good story thank you!
I am an Amateur Extra here in the states...and it makes no difference to me. I'll take what ever get through...I'll sometimes the characteristic of the person's voice, their audio setup, and the band...and some letters just don't come through...like once someone was screaming G Golf at me and it just didn't make sense...it wasn't until they said Germany...and bam...good to go! It is only contentious because some make it so! Great video....thank you sir!
MY pet peeve!!! I think much of the world follows the NATO phonetics reliably except for one country.
100 % agree Luckly I'm more CW nowadays but on those rare occasions I do use voice the one that gets me is America
I always use the NATO phonetics, and even use it back when someone uses an alternative. The only time I vary, is if the other operator can't copy because of noise or weak signal. My call ends in Delta Delta, and for some reason in poor conditions having two of the same letter back to back causes errors. That's when I'll come back with Denmark Denmark. That usually works, at least to Europe.
Good plan. Having an aternative in the back-pocket is a good idea too..
4:22 ... spot on! Usually I hear Americans wanting to be unique with their phonetics, so it fits the bill.
I have to say this.....I completely agree with what you are saying
My peeve is when people use the correct alphabet, but run the words together. Each letter has a distinct sound that goes some way to compensating for different accents (for example if someone says 'olf, they probably mean golf because there aren't any other 'olf words in the NATO alphabet). If I was to call zululimaonegolfhotelzulu, as correct as it might be, nobody's going to understand it. It's no better at making yourself understood than calling zurbriggen lichfield one galatea hikutaia zurbriggen.
Oh yes.. That old chestnut..!
I agree fully on this generally - but there are letters that are "to silent" - I'm TF3T - in difficult situations Tango is very often lost - so Texas or Tokyo will get through better.
It was a requirement in 1984 when I took the RAE exam to know the phonetic alphabet, it has stuck with me ever since
After 43 years in aviation I couldnt agree with you more! ICAO/NATO phonetics are the basis for international recognition and clarity. The rest need to get professional and put some polish on their communication! VE7PJO
ITALLLLLLY KILOWWATTT sees to be all I ever hear whenever I try and work a rare DX
The last two POTA activations I've done have been with a friend and fellow Athens Radio Club member. Occasionally while calling CQ the first activation we did together, he'd call out "Nagasaki 4 Jalapeños Anaheims and Habaneros" and it made me laugh every time. Told me they were called funny phonetics. Best I could come up with for my call was Aztec Kings 4 Tofu Frenchfries or Aztec Kings 4 Turtle Fighting. But most of the time I stick with Alpha Kilo 4 Tango Fox or America Kilowatt 4 Tokyo France.
If you are having a fun time, there's nothing to stop you!
Nice one!!
Fully agree. Eg, I've never heard an Italian station beginning with 'India'; always 'Italy'. My own experience however with dx is that (my) 'Sierra' is much more difficult to distinguish than 'Sugar'... 73 de PD0PSX
Poland is almost always Suga-Papa :)
I usually use NATO phonetics 🇨🇦.
Sometimes for DX Stations you need to use "country names" to help spell it out for them, specifically countries around them.
Colombia
Ecuador
Guatamala
Etc
Sierra is commonly mistaken for Charlie.
Cal just explained why you shouldnt.
mmmm, I had a Ford Sierra for a while, I don't ever remember anyone calling it a Ford Charlie....
HAHA Sid!
@@xszl I watched the whole video before commenting 😉.
If at first the NATO isn't understood, then an alternative might be necessary. We're lucky to share a standard phonetic, not all are so "privileged". 👍
@@Sidmi5utc don't rag chew on DX 😉, but if you did maybe a station from Morocco might call it a Ford Kierra.
Or a station from Peru might call it a Chord Citara. 😂
It makes it harder for stations to understand if English isn’t their native language
It's a standard so it shouldn't matter.
@@DXCommanderHQ sorry what I meant was if people stray from the phonetic alphabet e.g. America instead of Alpha
Correct, it was chosen to cope with the fact that a lot of aircraft staff did not have English as their native Language @@Pickle564
I use NATO phonetics, but at times when working DX I switch to Countries to have the Suffix understood...ie Tokyo, Denmark, Germany, instead of Tango, Delta, Golf. For some reason T-D-G all sound similiar--so anything different helps. I only use the Tokyo, Denmark, Germany after repeated attempts with NATO fail.
Well, if it works...!
Must admit, I'm guilty of using "sugar" at times. Might try this:
Galactic 7 Star Ship Enterprise 😉
HAHA
I generally agree with you about the phonetic alphabet My call ends in Q. When I say Quebec in is rather often interpreted as Japan (Often from ops in Spanish speaking countries). In such cases it is necessary to use Queen. My call also has a W and on rare occasions I must use Washington and not Whiskey.
Record yourself and play it back.. Roly has Q in his callsign too and he says it just right..
@@DXCommanderHQ I have had friends listen . they can't understand why either.
Kilo-Watt: Does that mean KW or K? That is the one that gets me when people use it.
And last night, I had a station I couldn't hear.. Turns out he was shouting TEXAS.
Callum,
You left out the number phonetics, too. Like NI-NER for 9 (to distinguish it from 5). Then there is FIIFF for 5 and FOH-ER for 4 and TREE for 3. Just saying (pun intended).
Indeed..
"The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from?" I'm always confused if people use anything else than the NATO / ICAO spelling alphabet.
I learned in the navy that "P" is pronounced the way the French do. I.e.: the accent is on the final syllable. If it's too hard to pronounce for us anglophones, Just say pterodactyl. Everyone will understand. ;-)
HAHA
I often get excited when I hear a weak signal and I hear Japan or other country name and I think DX? No its a guy in my same area! I agree Sir. Thanks !
With a lot of the Asian operators, they double syllable a lot of phonetic letters. For example 'gulf' becomes 'gul lef' and sierra becomes serra. So 'S0' or 'S7' sound like serra serra. It's really frustrating