Ha ha! They put Kilroy in the amplifier (upside down under the microscope between the pair of splitter/combiners). This is amazing. I can't wait to see what you do with millimeter waves!
The days when process technicians loved to have fun putting odd things in their high-tech designs. HP's microprocessor design team was really keen on this; they even developed their own process for adding high-resolution images to silicon using a bit-mapped array of thru-silicon vias.
hahah was going to comment on the same thing!, guess i'm not the only one that noticed Kilroy. Also noticed that "EVAL-R1" hand-scratched on that metal base. I guess now it's "Shahriar was here", peeking the insides, so fitting! :D
Hmmm ... those look like Wilkinson hybrid splitters, before and aft of the amplifiers, and the uneven lengths of the stripline make up for each other fore and aft on each amp set ... former TI GaAs Facility MIMIC DC test engineer here
The 83752 has a multiply function. You can set the multiplication factor, of the multiplier, in there and it will display the correct frequency, so you don't have to do the math.
There are a lot of sophisticated and successful businesses that do not have half the capability of your home lab. Stunning! As always, thanks for sharing. So much to learn, so satisfying.
Just so you know..... My business has grown as a result of the knowledge gained from your channel. My career has gone to the next level based in part what I have learned here. I have gone back to school to try and 'catch up'. It is hard to express how positive that is, how helpful your efforts are. I am a very thankful audience member (and supporter).
"Leave some comments about what kind of experiments you want to see." This setup is pretty exotic to me. I understand what it does (functionally at least), but I'd like to hear about what sort of experiments are even possible to do with this. I have only the vaguest idea.
Thanks for this teardown. Definitely answers some questions on my end as well. By the way, this setup can also use the older syn. sweepers as well. I personally have the 8340B as the source for this system setup back in our hometown (far away at the moment). You can also put an isolator (U365A) for the impedance mismatch if doing over air experiments. Kilroy was a nice touch. Interesting story on kilroy was that the kilroy art was popularized during WWII. However, it actually represents a symbol of an even older war. WWI. The thinking at the time may have been that WWII would also include trench warfare like WWI (the French thought this would happen). Another thing Kilroy could stands for is a soldier/commander (could be the enemy too) peeking over nosying about on what is going on in the field. Forever watching for you or against you. Was great psychological warfare/propaganda. (In this case, I'd like to think for you in goodwill for your experiments.) At least that's what my grandfather would tell me. Its all debatable since the people who know have unfortunately long passed their expiration date. Rest their souls and that of my grandfather. This is why teardowns of these older equipment are so awesome. Its a sad day when our younger set doesn't know how we got to where we are today. Much appreciated.
The output sub-module on the amplifier has "22GHz LPF" written on it at the top (as we see it on screen). That pretty much just leaves that tiny diode on the input of the big module as a doubler! I wonder why, after passing it through a splitter and amplifier, it was combined back again, and then split again, amplified, and recombined again, rather than being each path being amplified twice, then combined just once. Maybe the slightly different path lengths for each half-amplifier helps to reduce the average noise, but I'd have thought with the splitter+combiner losses would be quite a lot greater.
Using a pair of Wilkinson hybrids *does* boost max power output by 3 dB, nothing to sneeze at at these freqs for the era they were produced I would say ...
Maybe splitting it helps keeps the amplifier linear something like a backoff of 3db. Also, the filter in between the two balanced amplifier stages could help filter out any potential blockers that can saturate the second stage. Is my analysis correct ?
The splitters are actually 90 degree hybrid splitter/ combiners. Each amplifier stage is a pair of transistors working 90 degrees out of phase of which the two outputs are combined back again in a 90 degree hybrid to be in phase again. Why? To suppress old harmonics of the fundamental.
@39:17 I notice that after the second stage of amplification there looks to be an adjustable pad. The traces leaving the second stage are staggered slightly as they make contact with the combiner on the pad. Do you have an idea what this physical adjustment is for?
i have wanted to get some 20-40 ghz stuff going for some mm wave radar experiments but even this is way out of reach for me :P but not for everyone, great video again
Very nice but fat chance of finding any of this gear in Australia. EBay just has over priced junk attached to exorbitant postage costs. So I guess we must be satisfied watching Utube.
Thanks for explaining the doubler! I opened one of these and surprised to see the topology and coupler implementation. If you find a broken harmonic mixer I am very curious to see one inside.
Why would they use steel for the waveguide module instead of another metal that’s more conductive and easier to machine? Presumably, steel has some other desirable properties?
I would love to see you buy some UHF vacuum tubes and put together an oscillator using one, and comparing it to something solid state. 6AN4 tubes for example can push close to 900mhz and cost about $6 each. a 2c42 tube can push over 1750W at 1050mHz and is about $40 (although you need close to 1000 volts for the power supply so that's an issue). It may be practically DC compared to the frequencies you operate it, but I still think it would be interesting to see your expertise put towards something so vintage.
First of all big fan of your videos! I really like how you explain the workings of every device you fix instead of just blindly fixing them. I am myself very interested in mm wave and the equipment for it. Would be awesome if you could also design and build some of this stuff and make it maybe so that mmwave interested people could follow along. Stuff like a harmonic mixer or high frequency synthesizers,vcos, directional couplers, etc
Beautiful.. I love this channel At what power level can your finger actually "feel" the high frequencies? As far as what to test, why not see how well the rf absorbing material actually attenuates *i would really love to see rf adsorption material vs conductive foam -REAL- conductive foam, not that cheap stuff you get with chinese chips thats just colored black but has no conductivity Anyways, may the universe bless you on this selfless endeavour!
@@topherteardowns4679 Ka Band. A rapid heating of your hand. Not quite like convection oven where you sense the heat gradient and your nerves warn you. More of an instant burning once in LOS
James DeLuna crazy! For some reason I was thinking it would have started at a tingling, like wheb your arm falls asleep and goes numb/wakes back up. But, I guess the frequency is so insanely high that it is significantly caster than the central nervous systems line of communication, so, like persistence of vision, it just gets blended together as "Ouch! Hot!" Thanks!
Excellent video as usual. Thank you. I wonder if you know why the substrates for the amplifier modules is different from the output Wilkinson coupler and the LPF. I also liked your little free space attenuator/ material tester.
If you've gone through a large airport in the US you've probably walked through one of these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millimeter_wave_scanner They can image your naked body straight through your clothes.
half that lab has already surpassed that house value hands down. In fact i'd say even less, that keysight ultra high freq scope and those spectrum analyzers are "if you have to ask you can't afford" price range
Yes the output is at millimeter wave after the multiplication,. we had (the lab) the same modules for anecoid chamber, such robust modules as compared to the new one (vdi active module) that are much more sensitive ! By the way, thanks for your work ;)
so.. complete characterisation of a tin foil hat coming soon?
Ha ha! They put Kilroy in the amplifier (upside down under the microscope between the pair of splitter/combiners). This is amazing. I can't wait to see what you do with millimeter waves!
The days when process technicians loved to have fun putting odd things in their high-tech designs. HP's microprocessor design team was really keen on this; they even developed their own process for adding high-resolution images to silicon using a bit-mapped array of thru-silicon vias.
Tektronix had some fun additions in some of their schematics too.
hahah was going to comment on the same thing!, guess i'm not the only one that noticed Kilroy.
Also noticed that "EVAL-R1" hand-scratched on that metal base.
I guess now it's "Shahriar was here", peeking the insides, so fitting! :D
Guillermo Lovato EVAL-R1 seems more like a technical designation or even a stock keeping identifier at a previous laboratory.
Hmmm ... those look like Wilkinson hybrid splitters, before and aft of the amplifiers, and the uneven lengths of the stripline make up for each other fore and aft on each amp set ... former TI GaAs Facility MIMIC DC test engineer here
The 83752 has a multiply function. You can set the multiplication factor, of the multiplier, in there and it will display the correct frequency, so you don't have to do the math.
There are a lot of sophisticated and successful businesses that do not have half the capability of your home lab.
Stunning! As always, thanks for sharing. So much to learn, so satisfying.
Holy crap, this is a _HOME_ lab?
Yes, that is true. At the same time, the lab is used to spread information, experience and knowledge. I think that is also pretty sophisticated. ;)
Just so you know.....
My business has grown as a result of the knowledge gained from your channel. My career has gone to the next level based in part what I have learned here. I have gone back to school to try and 'catch up'. It is hard to express how positive that is, how helpful your efforts are.
I am a very thankful audience member (and supporter).
@@Thesignalpath The Chinese hacking engineers greatly appreciate your videos.
Kilroy spotted!
"Leave some comments about what kind of experiments you want to see."
This setup is pretty exotic to me. I understand what it does (functionally at least), but I'd like to hear about what sort of experiments are even possible to do with this. I have only the vaguest idea.
Thanks for this teardown. Definitely answers some questions on my end as well. By the way, this setup can also use the older syn. sweepers as well. I personally have the 8340B as the source for this system setup back in our hometown (far away at the moment). You can also put an isolator (U365A) for the impedance mismatch if doing over air experiments. Kilroy was a nice touch. Interesting story on kilroy was that the kilroy art was popularized during WWII. However, it actually represents a symbol of an even older war. WWI. The thinking at the time may have been that WWII would also include trench warfare like WWI (the French thought this would happen). Another thing Kilroy could stands for is a soldier/commander (could be the enemy too) peeking over nosying about on what is going on in the field. Forever watching for you or against you. Was great psychological warfare/propaganda. (In this case, I'd like to think for you in goodwill for your experiments.) At least that's what my grandfather would tell me. Its all debatable since the people who know have unfortunately long passed their expiration date. Rest their souls and that of my grandfather. This is why teardowns of these older equipment are so awesome. Its a sad day when our younger set doesn't know how we got to where we are today. Much appreciated.
The output sub-module on the amplifier has "22GHz LPF" written on it at the top (as we see it on screen). That pretty much just leaves that tiny diode on the input of the big module as a doubler!
I wonder why, after passing it through a splitter and amplifier, it was combined back again, and then split again, amplified, and recombined again, rather than being each path being amplified twice, then combined just once. Maybe the slightly different path lengths for each half-amplifier helps to reduce the average noise, but I'd have thought with the splitter+combiner losses would be quite a lot greater.
Maybe it helps with balance?
Using a pair of Wilkinson hybrids *does* boost max power output by 3 dB, nothing to sneeze at at these freqs for the era they were produced I would say ...
Maybe splitting it helps keeps the amplifier linear something like a backoff of 3db. Also, the filter in between the two balanced amplifier stages could help filter out any potential blockers that can saturate the second stage. Is my analysis correct ?
And of course the extra 3db from the balanced amplifier configuration
The splitters are actually 90 degree hybrid splitter/ combiners. Each amplifier stage is a pair of transistors working 90 degrees out of phase of which the two outputs are combined back again in a 90 degree hybrid to be in phase again. Why? To suppress old harmonics of the fundamental.
@39:17 I notice that after the second stage of amplification there looks to be an adjustable pad. The traces leaving the second stage are staggered slightly as they make contact with the combiner on the pad. Do you have an idea what this physical adjustment is for?
A bunch of metal blocks and pipes. Imagine what extraterrestrial tech looks like, if ET even USES any electronics, at all.
i have wanted to get some 20-40 ghz stuff going for some mm wave radar experiments but even this is way out of reach for me :P
but not for everyone, great video again
Very nice but fat chance of finding any of this gear in Australia. EBay just has over priced junk attached to exorbitant postage costs. So I guess we must be satisfied watching Utube.
Thanks for explaining the doubler! I opened one of these and surprised to see the topology and coupler implementation. If you find a broken harmonic mixer I am very curious to see one inside.
Why would they use steel for the waveguide module instead of another metal that’s more conductive and easier to machine? Presumably, steel has some other desirable properties?
also one thing i would love to see is some testing of cheap ebay RF absorbers
Great! Thank You for the demonstration and the look inside.
I would love to see you buy some UHF vacuum tubes and put together an oscillator using one, and comparing it to something solid state. 6AN4 tubes for example can push close to 900mhz and cost about $6 each. a 2c42 tube can push over 1750W at 1050mHz and is about $40 (although you need close to 1000 volts for the power supply so that's an issue). It may be practically DC compared to the frequencies you operate it, but I still think it would be interesting to see your expertise put towards something so vintage.
5:24 $150? Holy shit, that is a steal for something that big and HP branded special equipment!
First of all big fan of your videos! I really like how you explain the workings of every device you fix instead of just blindly fixing them. I am myself very interested in mm wave and the equipment for it. Would be awesome if you could also design and build some of this stuff and make it maybe so that mmwave interested people could follow along. Stuff like a harmonic mixer or high frequency synthesizers,vcos, directional couplers, etc
I can already see some obsolete GaAs fab gear showing up at the Signal Path eventually! Keep at it man, ASIC at home is closer and closer ; )
Beautiful.. I love this channel
At what power level can your finger actually "feel" the high frequencies?
As far as what to test, why not see how well the rf absorbing material actually attenuates
*i would really love to see rf adsorption material vs conductive foam -REAL- conductive foam, not that cheap stuff you get with chinese chips thats just colored black but has no conductivity
Anyways, may the universe bless you on this selfless endeavour!
30-33dBm is my experience.
James DeLuna do you happen to recall what frequency band that was at?
-trivial, but I am oh so curious! I can only imagine what it felt like!
@@topherteardowns4679 Ka Band. A rapid heating of your hand. Not quite like convection oven where you sense the heat gradient and your nerves warn you. More of an instant burning once in LOS
James DeLuna crazy! For some reason I was thinking it would have started at a tingling, like wheb your arm falls asleep and goes numb/wakes back up. But, I guess the frequency is so insanely high that it is significantly caster than the central nervous systems line of communication, so, like persistence of vision, it just gets blended together as "Ouch! Hot!"
Thanks!
Can you please measure Ultem 1000 dielectric constant near 40 GHz ?
Awesome video, as always. Thank you.
Generate mm waves ans then spend a fortune to get cables, connectors, components and devices to test.
Excellent video as usual. Thank you.
I wonder if you know why the substrates for the amplifier modules is different from the output Wilkinson coupler and the LPF. I also liked your little free space attenuator/ material tester.
The offices of Velodyne's LIDAR division are just down the road from OML.
39:00 killroy was here!
What is the difference between a signal generator and a synthesizer?
👍👍
great video but less holding stuff up to/moving the camera in real time would be nice
Super nice video. Thanks ! I don't believe I've seen something like this anywhere else.
But how do anyone work with UHF (300GHz + ) ?
You really could need multiple cameras to then edit a picture in picture or just cut to another angle
Dude, when this channel started the intro animation was played on a laptop with the camera pointed at the screen.
Haha. We have come a long way! ;)
at 5:16 you claimed the hardware was a 20-40ghz Amp, but, it says right on the label 2-20Ghz
Yes, the amplifier is 2-20GHz, the input range of the mm-wave modules.
Another fantastic video. Thanks, Very interesting.
did you ever try modulating your voice over the "Air" on any of these GHz frequencies?
While AM modulation may be possible with these mm-wave modules, FM would not be. I have shown various modulations in other videos.
That's great I love those videos. The best ones after repair ;)
Can you give us any insight into the cost of such a setup?
Great episode, again. Thank you
Nice video
Thank you for another amazing video!
These were knick-named “the armadillo” :-)
Wow! Why though
Mind blowing!
I’m still at a bit of a loss what those high frequencies are used for.
Satellite communications, radar, astronomy, molecular spectroscopy, wireless communications (60GHz for 802.11ad), etc.
Now for my 'witty' comment:
Higher frequencies are used to rip holes in space-time and communicate with the dead.
mind control by the government obviously ;)
If you've gone through a large airport in the US you've probably walked through one of these:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millimeter_wave_scanner
They can image your naked body straight through your clothes.
Cellular 5G NR will use mmWave
How long before the home lab surpasses the house value? :D
half that lab has already surpassed that house value hands down. In fact i'd say even less, that keysight ultra high freq scope and those spectrum analyzers are "if you have to ask you can't afford" price range
Hehe, right. I messed up the question. I was going for "cost" to him not actual value of the equipment.
Nice tear down. Crazy that you can buy a full V band I/Q up and down converter, with synth, in a pair of chips; specifically the HMC630x.
Louis Brown I strongly suspect that those Hittite chips are subject to strict export restrictions, due to their military applications.
26.5 GHz is not mm-wave it starts at 30 GHz
Yes, however since the upper frequency ranges of the modules go into the mm-wave frequencies, HP still calls them mm-wave source modules.
Yes the output is at millimeter wave after the multiplication,. we had (the lab) the same modules for anecoid chamber, such robust modules as compared to the new one (vdi active module) that are much more sensitive ! By the way, thanks for your work ;)
first
and hello
mattcysiewski111 and im second