Breaking The Honey Dome - Spring Hive Management #2
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Spring Management Part 1 - • Breaking The Honey Dom...
Part 2 in the Spring Management Series moves into swarm prevention.
There are a lot of different methods to prevent swarming. What I'm doing is breaking up the honey dome by checkerboarding in empty drawn comb, and adding a super at the same time. The goal is to create a bridge from the brood chamber to higher in the box, allowing the queen to expand the broodnest by giving her space to lay, and also giving the bees plenty of work to do.
If I can keep them working until after the nectar flow starts hopefully they will all stay home and make honey instead of hitting the trees (swarming).
The advantages of this method:
1. Less work - other common methods are splitting hives, equalizing (robbing brood frames from strong hives and giving them to the weaker hives), or cutting down swarm cells. I saw a presentation from one beekeeper who shakes every frame in every hive every week to kill swarm cells. That's a lot of work! This method will hopefully accomplish the same goal, with much less work.
2. No weekly checks for swarm cells.
3. BIG hives tend to result, which produce more honey. Splitting creates smaller hives. The goal is high population and no swarming. This method hopes to achieve both.
4. Young queens. Walt Wright, the pioneer of this work, indicates that queens get used up fast due to the giant broodnests that result. Hives tend to supercede in early summer after the main flow, which gives you a young queen for fall and next spring.
Disadvantages:
1. If it doesn't work, my hives are going to swarm for sure. No honey crop?
2. Big hives are the MOST susceptible to Varroa Mites. I will have to be on top of treatments as these artificially large hives won't be able to handle mites without treatments.
Whether you agree or disagree with Walt Wright's work, it sure makes for interesting reading. I highly recommend, even though it can be tough to understand at times.
Link to all of Walt Wright's Articles:
www.beesource.com/threads/wal...
Links to articles on what Walt calls Nectar Management or Checkerboarding:
www.beesource.com/threads/app...
www.beesource.com/threads/app...
www.beesource.com/threads/nec...
Links to articles correlating honey production with hive population:
chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/www.apidologie.org/articles/a...
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
Link to my Amazon Store, with products I recommend:
www.amazon.com/shop/duckriverhoney
Note: if you purchase from my Amazon store, a tiny amount of money will come out of Amazon's pocket and go into mine. The price to you is the same. They have deep pockets and I don't, so your support is appreciated. - Домашні улюбленці та дикі тварини
The more you know, the less you mow. Thanks for the video, Nathan.
Awesome, I appreciate the kind words!
Great video buddy thanks for sharing. Your hives look like they came through winter quite nicely. I run a deep with medium supers on them. Hope you all have a great rest of the week.
Yeah they're all looking ok right now. I've got one hive that got started late and I don't think the queen is well mated. We'll see how they do, but the rest seem pretty strong.
Great video Nathan! Let it bloom is some great advice. Henbit is going strong here in South Carolina along with a lot of stuff since the weather warmed up. Almost time to get some seeds in the ground and supers on the hives. Glad to see you doing well. Enjoying the content
Thanks David, I appreciate it! Ton of work that all needs to be NOW since the weather broke. Painting, first round of hive manipulations, swarm traps, need to do some bushhogging too. I'll probably do some videos on planting food plots that work for deer and bees as well.
I liked that.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I appreciate the encouragement!
I had pinkeye drone brood in the bridge comb last week with lots of worker brood and pollen. I put pollen patty and 1:1 syrup to boost them just a little. Great video!!!!
Thanks! This time of year is so timing critical, and the timing changes every year.
wow that double deep hive looks great after getting through winter considering they mite issue. great job.
Thanks!
Hey Nath. Again a well researched, filmed, edited vlog. Bang on mate for content. It also seems wrong for you to do all the research and we get to enjoy the spoils of your time. For that I thank you mate.👍
Lighting the smoker like that 🤯.
The girls got untidy as dropped pie after rippin the lid off. Can’t imagine why they were annoyed.
Next up to watch is your painting job.
Thanks Wayne, I appreciate it!
Man, that’s looks like a great deer hunting spot! I’m going to try this technique this year. I love your videos.
Thanks!
Thanks for the video was so interesting also your beehives look nice.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Sorry I had to go do something and come back. I always put 🍺🍺(cheers) straight up. It’s sort of a first and a comment. I then watch the video and come back to edit. Nathan that’s great information. I just purchased a heap of ideals to use as supers above my full size brood boxes. I purchased a full hive, 2x10 frames. I’m wanting to split that into 2x 10 frame brood boxes and use the ideals as supers. Thanks for the video 🍺🍺
Thanks!
Already have some swarm traps out here in north west ALABAMA had several days of 70+ days and back into the wet weather for a few days and then warm up. Just getting prepared for the bee's to do their thing. 👍🐝🐝🐝
It's coming! I love this time of year! Swarm trapping especially....it is so much fun.
@@DuckRiverHoney yes sir and I can't hardly wait for this time of year like a kid at Christmas. Have a great day.
You do the same, and good luck!
Great info. Lots to consider.
Here in Southern Ontario Canada it was -20*C last night. Cant wait to get into my bees to make more videos. Thanks for sharing.
LOL, yeah I'd say you've got a bit of time before your bees start getting active. I'd love to get up to Canada someday and do some fishing.
@@DuckRiverHoney ya no kidding. It should be warming here soon... Hopefully..
@@86offroad p
Always sound information on your videos backed up by good research. More people need to hit the research articles and publications and not rely on youtube and bee forums.
Thanks Mike! I will NEVER claim to know all the answers. I can only hope to get smart enough to know how to FIND the answers. Right now I'm still trying to get smart enough to ask the right questions.
You're exactly correct in that statement. There is a lot of junk out there you have to filter through.
Thank you
Thanks for the comment!
Making me jealous....maybe soon...lol. I was so happy March came in like a lion yesterday in Michigan. Bring on the lamb for the end of March 🙏🐝. Lorie
It’s a good time! Although we’ve had rain and flooding for days.
@@DuckRiverHoney sorry to hear that. Hopefully it quits soon. Seems like we had a nice winter till a few weeks ago when we got hammered with snow. That’s mostly melted and now it’s a muddy mess. My poor cattle didn’t know what to think. One day they’re standing in snow to their bellies (Dexters) and the next they’re getting hooves stuck with every step. 🤣
The freeze-thaw is a killer. Our ENTIRE winter is like that. Rain, freeze, snow, thaw = MUD. Cold areas have winter, and winter fades to mud season. Our entire winter is mud season. We don't have cattle any more, but there were many times when I was a kid helping to feed hay that I lost a knee boot around the hay ring.
Hi Sunset Heritage Farm! I am in Oakland County in MI and haven’t seen my girls come out for their cleansing flight yet. Anxiously awaiting some warmer days to check in on them. Good luck with yours!!🐝💕
@@angieziegler9671 the forecast for the weekend and next week is looking promising. The sunshine today is a little deceiving though 😉🐝
Hi! Love your videos. Thank you for all your time. Are you in the camp of a queen excluder being a honey excluder?? Thanks!
I’m really not in a camp at all. Queen excluders are a tool that make sense to use in some circumstances and not in others. The trick is to know the difference.
excessive burr comb can be caused by too much space between the top and bottom bars of the frames. i have that issues with Lyson equipment.
Another informative video, thanks! What are the metal supports under your 4x4 stand? They almost look like angle iron off beds - adjustable? Looks very sturdy, level, and able to be titled slightly to the front if you wanted.
Eric, those are some stands I experimented with last year. I welded them out of 1/4" angle and made grease cup ant baffles for them. The legs are carriage bolts and make it adjustable for level and pitch. It works well, but I decided it's not worth the time or expense. When I stopped using hive top feeders and went to internal feeders the bees solved my ant issues. As for level, cinder blocks, bricks, and wood shims are about as fast and much cheaper.
What was wrong with the old inner covers? I couldn’t tell any difference in the bee space or upper entrance size between the old and new from the video. Good overview of the honey cap. I just did this on my hives with that method yesterday as I added another box to try and prevent spring swarming. I always wondered if what I was doing was helping or hindering them as they are all a bit unique.
I would bee checking for queen cups as well, just to be safe.
I’ll get back in them this week.
Nathan did you have a mild winter? Your volume of honey is amazing.
Typically when we add brood supers we put all the dawn comb in the center encouraging the queen's vertical laying and allowing the nurses to cover the brood on cooler nights. Looking forward to seeing how that works for you.
We had an average winter I’d say. Not much flying weather, cold and rainy. Couple real cold spells. But we hardly ever get the deep cold more northern areas do.
I had 34 great hives wiped out by the fogger of the county in Liberty , Texas Rob.
That is awful! Sorry for your loss. Here in TN there is assistance you can get for pesticide kills, but your apiary has to be registered.
? Why fog were bees r
Is that straw or Pine needles in the smoker? thanks for the videos, keep it up. I have my 1st hive this year.
I use mostly pine needles. Dried grass clippings works but the smell gives me a headache.
When did you check the bottom medium brood box to see if it was empty? Plenty of resources so it's good you took the feeders out.
I was in several other hives the day before trying to see where they were at. I find that is the toughest part of beekeeping - figure out what the bees are doing, then decide what the beekeeper should do. Lots of variables, trying to hit a moving target.
but the bees like the brood close to the entrance, wouldnt you want to give them checker board room down to move the brood away from where the honey is going to go. I see lots of different ideas about this exact thing, I havent screwed up enough spring to know my opinion. lol thanks for the well thought out videos. love the dead nettle
Part of the process is actually to rotate the bottom box up, but that won't happen until later. A resource that makes this method much more effective is LOTS of drawn combs to keep adding. I don't have those, so I'll have a tough time this year managing the bees.
what kind of polish do you use to keep your boxes looking so neat
Two exterior coats of latex paint. Working on painting a bunch more now, should have a video up in the next several days.
my son would like to know if you have every checked out the Flow Hives.
I looked at them a little but decided they don’t fit into what I’m trying to do.
Nice video where are you at in Tennessee? I am in west ennessee
I’m in western middle Tennessee, not far from Columbia and Dickson.
Wow, that's an interesting smoker technique. I also keep three mediums rather than two deeps, but I don't have spare drawn comb on hand to employ this technique. 😢
Edit: actually I lied. I might have one or two frames of drawn comb in the freezer. The rest is all capped honey.
Thanks, it works well. Not something I invented...I first saw it on a forum or somewhere several years ago.
MY grandson lives down Bristol! Were are you bub! Your view looks like ours!
I’m over in western middle Tennessee, about 60 miles from Nashville.
@@DuckRiverHoney Thanks! Im new to beekeeping as well! hoping for50by this seasons end!! God Bless!!!
Good luck!
@@DuckRiverHoney Gods Got My Back Brother!!! Yours too I imagine!!
Do you use queen excluders at some point in your management?
I may and may not. I'd prefer not to, it's extra work. If I use them it will be to allow brood to emerge from partial honey frames above an excluder so that I can extract them. I'm not really for or against excluders. They're a tool that I'll use if I feel I need to, but I'd rather take the easy route first and see if I can manage without them for the most part.
The excluders work great for me with no extra work. I put them on at the beginning of the flow season an take them off at the end an that way do not have to worry about getting brood in the honey frames because if there is brood can not extract that honey you just have to use it to feed back to the bees . I have tried the plastic excluders do not like them . I use metal with wood around the edge works great. Ya get bees back down to the bottom and let the season go wide open and hang on for the ride . Thanks
What are the red and yellow things on the landing boards.
Paint. I started painting the landing boards different colors to see if it helps prevent drift. I think spacing the hives 3 ft apart will do more, so that's what I'm going to try going forward.
@@DuckRiverHoney How were you measuring the drift?
I wasn’t. I read some of Seeley’s work on mites and saw drift was a problem and started thinking about how to minimize. Then saw Ian Steppler paints his three way nuc landing boards different colors and thought I’d try it.
Hi Nathan....I followed your train of thought with most of this...and agree...but the concept of leaving so much capped full frames of honey by checker boarding makes zero sense when an empty drawn box of frames seems more viable....I keep moving up all full frames of honey providing space below the honey....but I guess both strategies work....where do you get your pine needle straw for fuel for your smoker....
Ed, I don't have all the answers...there are likely multiple answers to most bee management questions, and most will work in the right circumstances. We'll see how this goes and whether I'm pleased with the results. I get my pine straw from the pine trees in my yard. They drop their needles in the fall and I rake them up and store them in a couple metal trash cans for use the next year.
So very true....I wish you very good success....you have good honest info....
Another option for the honey dome was to scratch the cappings on the frame with honey in the middle of the 3rd medium while still checkerboarding. Once those caps are opened and in the wrong spot they will move the honey quickly. I've only tried it once and it did work. This is a method Michael Palmer uses to make comb honey.
That's interesting Russ, makes sense that they'd move it if it were misplaced and capping scratched. So how does Michael Palmer make comb honey doing this? He's figured out how to get them to make new comb and move existing honey into that new comb? Seems like that would work, it would certainly take less bee power than to draw comb and fill it super quick.
@@DuckRiverHoney Yes, by putting the scraped capped honey underneath, the bees quickly move it up and recap the honey comb. This is done rather quickly which gives the comb honey a very white clean appearance since bees haven't walked on it very much.
You said the queen does not like walking thru a honey frame so why did you not pull the honey box and add a 3rd brood box and put the honey box on top. I also see you don't use excluders. When I don't use excluders the queen make a mess of my honey box's. I'm in Charlotte so not to far from ya. Looking at putting a few swarm traps up this week but I think it's still too early for swarming. Adding 2 new Buckfast queens to mix up this year. Last years queens did not produce enough winter brood and I lost quite a few hives. That was a first.
It’s a balancing act for sure.....they need honey close to the brood, but a solid honey dome can prevent expansion and cause swarming. This method attempts to leave honey available, but also give space for expansion. As the bees eat the honey that’s left more comb becomes available for brood-laying. I used excluders last year and had a hive try to swarm in summer. So I’m going without this year to see how it goes. I fully expect to have to shift some frames with brood down and harvest them later in the year. I’ll probably be putting up swarm traps this week...love swarm trapping!
Check this old timer out. He hangs traps and uses an interesting mix of oils. Gonna give this a try this spring.
ua-cam.com/video/H1e-5v0GP9I/v-deo.html
I've seen that video. It's a neat idea, but I'm not hanging mine because of the extra gear I'd need, plus we get a lot of high wind storms and I'd worry about them getting damaged or something.
I like the idea of lowering the trap though so I giving it a try without the metal wire. Ill do a 4way rope tie on each side of the box and screw it together with eye hooks.
I'm sure it'll work. Send me some pictures if you catch any. nathan@duckriverhoney.com
i hear fred dunn call it a honey bridge
There are so many names that beekeepers use....the process I'm using is called Nectar Management, Checkerboarding, Breaking the Honey Dome, etc, etc. Makes it confusing, but we're all talking about the same things.
Just out of curiosity, you don’t think the night lows not being consistently in the 50s is too cold/early?
Good question! I’m seeing very big populations, and very little brood because of the cold weather we had leading up. So they should have plenty of bees to make heat for the little brood they’re keeping warm. If they had a ton of brood and not so many bees I’d worry more.
Duck River Honey keep up the good work. I’m in a similar boat, trying to double/expand and get a nice honey crop out of 10 hives. The Mann lake March madness sale better watch out. Thanks for answering so quickly
No worries, good luck this year!
@@mriley528 I just got my sales flyer today for it too! I’m making my list and checking it twice 😁. Every time I think I have everything I need, I think of 10 more things 😂🐝🍯
Sunset Heritage Farm the price for supers, granted without frames is pretty low if you buy at least 36. I’m also looking at ultra bee patties, I just hate spending money on consumables
Do you keep feral bees exclusively, or do you prefer Carniolans, Buckfast, Caucasian, Italian or Russian? Hybrids maybe? Just curious.
Do you follow Kamon Reynolds? He has the Tennessee's Bees UA-cam Channel. He quite knowledgeable and has a tongue in cheek way of doing his videos.
Just found you the other day and subscribed a couple of days ago. I follow 628DirtRooster, Mr. ED, Jason Chrisman, JP The Beeman and The Bush Beeman down in Oz.
Thanks! I’ve got some Russian hybrids, an Italian hive, and the rest feral, but likely heavily Russian because a local beekeeper who retired had purebred Russians and lost a lot of swarms over the years. I’m not as much into purebred bloodlines as I am locally adapted and ability to survive. I prefer a thrifty and productive bee that can tend to itself for the most part.
@@DuckRiverHoney I agree with your decision regarding feral bees. Bees that have adapted to the local environs do much better and thrive. Particularly when it comes to the varroa mite. There's been studies in the last several years that show there are feral colonies showing up, especially in the mid-Atlantic states and such that are showing a genetic resistance to the mites, I think the hygienic behavior, aka "ankle biters".
The Varroa resistance is interesting stuff. I drove to Colorado and back last year and listened to the Treatment Free Beekeeping podcast for nearly 60 hours straight. Bottom line is there IS a genetic component that gives A behavior OR multiple behaviors, OR a multitude of factors that allows bees to survive varroa. I think some hygienic behavior, mite killing behavior, small hive size, frequent swarming, high drone population, and possibly small cell sizes could ALL play a part. I’ve decided that I’ll be a treater because I want artificially HUGE populations for honey production efficiency and those huge populations create a weakness to mites. Beekeeping is all about YOUR goals and figuring out what your management looks like to meet them.
@@DuckRiverHoney Studies on cell size have been done showing no advantage to smaller cells. Swarming obviously helps reduce mite but you lose your honey crop. Freezing drone brood helps lower mite counts but not enough to save a hive. The hygienic behavior I think is probably our best hope to reduce mite treatments. Your hive bomb hive from last fall should not reproduce and should be requeened with one that handles mites better. Just my thoughts and observations.
Russ you're right, studies have been done, and treatment free beekeepers using small cell nitpick the way those studies have been done and say they should be done a different way. I don't know enough about it to say definitively one way or the other, but when successful beekeepers are doing something and screaming that a study is unfair or poorly conceived, I at least listen to them. Dr. Seeley's current work is showing that small hives spaced far apart that are allowed to swarm frequently are much more mite tolerant. Unfortunately most of that is bad for the beekeeper, and especially bad for honey production. Some speculation is saying that having 25-30% drones in a hive acts as a "sacrifice" to the mites, since they prefer the drones they are more likely to stay out of worker brood. Again, I don't know, but it's interesting to think about. I don't intend to let my mite bomb hive reproduce, but it's not JUST for the mite bomb reason. A hive having mites may or may not be a bad thing. It's what they do with them that matters. I bet you'd really enjoy this podcast, I'll try to link it: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/treatment-free-beekeeping-podcast-episode-48-mite-black/id910167901?i=1000384536800
They put comb on the bottom of the frames because there is to much room under the frames. You talk about them not liking you going in there home. I you were talking about the temperature below 70. You take my home apart in cold weather I would not be very happy! Best temperature to go in them is when you can walk around outside with not much on. There bady temperature is near our body temperature. You open them up when in the 40's, or 50's and they think you are after there baby's, you are letting in cold air and they are trying to keep the brood warm around 80 or 90, and they see something opening up and letting in very cold air that could kill the brood! They don't know you are going to close it back up, they only know that you are letting cold air in and they don't want you to do that!
Thanks!
sounds like you need some gentler bee stock.
Maybe so, or maybe I need to stop complaining. ;) I don’t have mean bees, but they can be testy....but normally when they should be.
bur comb = bad spacing sir!
Normally I’d agree. They’ll make drones there in the spring which is normal, but THIS hive keeps honey there year round. Same Mann Lake boxes and frames as the other hives. Funny how different hives have different personalities.
@@DuckRiverHoney No doubt! yes sir!