During a 30-minute discussion among a group of respected intellectuals, they only debated how the show could have been performed, instead of recognising that they lost because they didn’t achieve the desired result. This country will continue to decline unless its politicians realise their job is not just for show; they must have the competence and vision to address the nation’s problems.
Reading you post, I'm not sure why, but I had a vision of Lord Lucan, riding Shergar, singing and Elvis song on the deck of the Titanic, feeding a flying pig.........
Why has Gove been welcomed to the Spectator? He was at the heart of the last 14 years in which the country was driven into the ground and was an unmitigated disaster. Why would we be interested in anything he has to say? The bare faced cheek of sitting there making jokes!
So the criticism of Reform is that they don’t have any policies But for the Tories the panel agreed it’s too early to set out your stall ! Also you missed the Tennant Reform Bill (Mr Gove introduced) Ms Rayner turbo charged Tenants Right Act, that is destroying the private rental sector. Big problems if your a tenant 😢
Wow, six minutes in and it is obvious you don't understand why the Tories lost. I am a lifelong Tory, was treasurer of the young conservatives in my local area in 1987, and I didn't vote Tory his time. It wasn't the campaign, it wasn't the timing, it was the 14 years of NOT doing what you said you would. That is why Kemi is having a huge problem. For 14 years the Tories SAID the right thing, and then did the opposite. That is the simple reason you lost. If you want more detail, you promised reduced legal migration, you didn't deliver it. You promised lower taxes, you did the opposite. You promised Brexit, you did that in name only. You promised to stop illegal migration, that went up. You promised free speech, then clamped down and failed to pass laws. On your watch the horrors of trans mutilation happened. On your watch the horrors of DEI ran amok. On your watch the Civil Service started running the show. Enough detail?
Well considering one of Reforms major policies is to dismantle the NHS and replace it with something similar to the American healthcare system I think most people will care about that once they are aware of it, polls consistently show overwhelming public support for the NHS. Right now people are expressing support for Reform as a protest, that will change in a general election campaign as parties manifestos come under scrutiny. Once that happens much of their support will slip away from them.
@@TomOBedlam-b2hpeople can think whatever they like, without major changes, i would anticipate a debt crisis within a decade then the markets will largely decide what our social welfare amounts to.
@@lecaprice2572 I don't but when I look at the American healthcare system its far worse. My problem is with the migrant and asylum seekers who arrive in the UK who have instant access to it. If you are not born in the UK to British parents then you should no be able to access the NHS until you have paid taxes for a decade. Sound fair?
I blame you Tories for letting in this despot Government. Absolutely Reform 100% - they are our only hope . However labour and Tories going to take away democracy by cancelling local elections . All because you know Reform will win them . RIP democracy and freedom.
Michael Gove, funny? Laughing at your own jokes does little to make them amusing to anyone else. Ditto the other bloke. Has everyone in the Spectator office been imbibing the yuletide grog? This years events have been about as uplifting as the much publicised, impending end of the world scenario. Katy is Queen of the Tartan! ❤❤❤
All one the Labour and Tories have to do is expose Reforms plans to privatise the NHS and support will slip away from the Reform party. Gove is right they are like the SDP.
I believe the new owner of the Spectator is an honorable, successful and very intelligent gentleman. What, though, could possibly be the point of appointing someone like Michael Gove. He will not command the respect of the readership. And his “humor” is NOT funny. I also note 📝 an increase in what I can only politely term as odd left wing or muddled articles. For heaven’s sake please bring in a serious 🧐 person as soon as possible ! (Signed by a Paying Subscriber)
Katy Balls is actually right about Ashworth losing his seat being a moment of the year. Five sitting Labour MP's defeated by candidates who came from nowhere - complete nobodies. It could only have been achieved by muslim block voting. This is a harbinger of what is to come in the future. Pity they didn't have the courage to explore that more in their discussion.
Michael Gove, characteristically disingenuous and called out bt by Quentin Letts. Reform didnt split the Right. Those voters woukd have either stayed at home or given Labour an even bigger majority. And no mention of Immigration being the deciding issue.
If the opinion polls had been putting Labour on 34% rather than on 45% for the two years before the election, the Conservatives might not have panicked so much, and more Conservative voters might have shown up to vote on the day. More than any election I can remember, in 2024 it was the opinion polls what won it for Labour.
Perhaps, to a certain degree. But the faux conservatives of the CPP and CCHQ cursed themselves by the wilful betrayal of their natural and traditional, true conservative supporters. People like me. I shall not trust them or vote for them again, and I am not the only one.
A number of surveys have been conducted about this subject . There is some credence to the idea that the the opinion polls for Labour giving them such a huge lead could potentially have resulted in voter apathy among many Labour supporters who assumed it as a done deal this which drove down their share of the vote. There is also a lot of evidence that the left voted tactically which is why we saw the Lib Dems do so well . The Tories panicking didn't help and I it seemed an odd tactical decision for Sunak went to the country in July. Perhaps things were falling apart in the Tory party a greater rate than everyone suspected . Maybe they would have had a third leadership contest to replace him which would have resulted in more chaos and division in a party that was already at war with itself. Its overly simplistic to blame the loss on the polls alone, it was because the Tories had been a mess for several years. Boris, Truss and Sunak all played their part in that downfall.
@@TomOBedlam-b2h So you think 11% of voters were so certain that Labour would win that they both 1) apathetically didn’t bother to vote at all and 2) enthusiastically voted tactically in some wholly new way? Opinion polls are now putting Labour in third place, behind the Conservatives and Reform. If your analysis is right, the disillusion with Labour since the election must be even more sudden and dramatic than it seems. I could believe that Labour turnout was reduced a bit by overconfident no-shows (maybe 3%?), but 11% feels implausible. Especially since the Conservatives had been in power since 2010, and Labour supporters seemed passionate about kicking them out. I also think that tactical voting by Labour supporters in seats where Lib Dems were the main challengers has been going on for some time; it’s nothing new. What was new was Reform splitting the Conservative vote. That seems like a more likely explanation for Lib Dem successes. It will be interesting to see if the new Lib Dem MPs think the best way to retain their seats is to appeal to the Labour tactical voters by supporting house building on the Green Belt, or appeal to the NIMBY instincts of traditional Conservative voters. Polls have had a tendency to overestimate Labour support, notably in 1992 and 2015.
@@TomOBedlam-b2h Prima facie, it was failed Tory policies and, in some instances of critically important issues (such as unlimited mass migration), that understandably turned people off the Tories.
Why am I paying tio keep the appalling Gove in clover? Yeuch. Perhaps I won't. Toby Young please. I can't watch. Cindy and Katy please stop laughing at his slimy personage.
The prolonged laugh at Michael‘s every funny is a bit much, Cindy. Best left for later in the afternoon at J. Sheekey. (Recommend the half dozen huîtres Jersey with a glass of Ruinart Blanc de Blancs.)
I was really not aware that gove was such a humouroous, popular and charismatic chap. There are so many clips of the spectator staff chuckling heartily at his good natured jokes and insightful quips.
The Tories’ problem is that they’re not Tories.
what I cant get over is that the media (and everyone it seems) are surprised at how bad labour are....
Rather the same level as the tories
That's because the media IS part of Labour and fascist socialism.
They didn't expect THEIR political wing to be so corrupt, inept and evil
@@andrewstorm8240 They're two sides of the same coin.
I’m afraid after reading Nadine Dorries’s book I have absolutely no regard for Gove and subsequently the Spectator for employing him!
I didn’t even read that book. Just him alone is enough. Terrible decision.
@@ayethegreat4997 Agreed. You should read it. ‘Downfall’
The Tories are centre left.
yea austerity and brexit were really centre left
During a 30-minute discussion among a group of respected intellectuals, they only debated how the show could have been performed, instead of recognising that they lost because they didn’t achieve the desired result. This country will continue to decline unless its politicians realise their job is not just for show; they must have the competence and vision to address the nation’s problems.
Reading you post, I'm not sure why, but I had a vision of Lord Lucan, riding Shergar, singing and Elvis song on the deck of the Titanic, feeding a flying pig.........
Why has Gove been welcomed to the Spectator? He was at the heart of the last 14 years in which the country was driven into the ground and was an unmitigated disaster. Why would we be interested in anything he has to say? The bare faced cheek of sitting there making jokes!
Couldn’t have said it better. So agreee!!
The Leftator. Some speccie scribblers scribble for the guardian.
Gove, the eternal snake in the grass. He hangs around like a bad smell.
Cameron, Osborne and Gove are the ones who killed the Conservative Party.
Douglas Murray would have been a better replacement for Andrew Neil.
15 minutes in and not a word about the Tory immigration disaster.
Reform is the only way ahead🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
So the criticism of Reform is that they don’t have any policies
But for the Tories the panel agreed it’s too early to set out your stall !
Also you missed the Tennant Reform Bill (Mr Gove introduced) Ms Rayner turbo charged Tenants Right Act, that is destroying the private rental sector.
Big problems if your a tenant 😢
A post-mortem analysis of a defunct political party.
Nah they will be back like Labour came back in the 1990s.
That's enough Gove, thanks
Wow, six minutes in and it is obvious you don't understand why the Tories lost. I am a lifelong Tory, was treasurer of the young conservatives in my local area in 1987, and I didn't vote Tory his time. It wasn't the campaign, it wasn't the timing, it was the 14 years of NOT doing what you said you would. That is why Kemi is having a huge problem. For 14 years the Tories SAID the right thing, and then did the opposite. That is the simple reason you lost. If you want more detail, you promised reduced legal migration, you didn't deliver it. You promised lower taxes, you did the opposite. You promised Brexit, you did that in name only. You promised to stop illegal migration, that went up. You promised free speech, then clamped down and failed to pass laws. On your watch the horrors of trans mutilation happened. On your watch the horrors of DEI ran amok. On your watch the Civil Service started running the show. Enough detail?
Well said! They are in denial of their utter betrayal of us all.
And thanks for facilitation of rapid expansion of Sharia Courts (with laws that contradict UK laws; for example, polygamy etc.)
Who cares about Reform policy depth, what good has Torie and Labour policy depth done.
Well considering one of Reforms major policies is to dismantle the NHS and replace it with something similar to the American healthcare system I think most people will care about that once they are aware of it, polls consistently show overwhelming public support for the NHS. Right now people are expressing support for Reform as a protest, that will change in a general election campaign as parties manifestos come under scrutiny. Once that happens much of their support will slip away from them.
@@TomOBedlam-b2hpeople can think whatever they like, without major changes, i would anticipate a debt crisis within a decade then the markets will largely decide what our social welfare amounts to.
@@TomOBedlam-b2h
I’m somewhat curious to know whether you feel that the NHS is a well run organization ?
@@lecaprice2572 I don't but when I look at the American healthcare system its far worse. My problem is with the migrant and asylum seekers who arrive in the UK who have instant access to it. If you are not born in the UK to British parents then you should no be able to access the NHS until you have paid taxes for a decade. Sound fair?
My god. It’s hard to take spectator seriously after Michael Gove. Why. Oh why ??? Was a massive failure in politics. What is his honest value add ?? 😮
It went wrong for the Tories from when they embodied UKLabour policies and Net Zero madness - good riddance
Oh look the one nation wets still not even addressing what they did to the country.
And the current incumbent, the Fouke Monster, does more harm in fewer months
Is it any wonder the Conservatives lost. Just listen to this amateur hour.
Tories with their heads stuck in the sand.
I blame you Tories for letting in this despot Government. Absolutely Reform 100% - they are our only hope . However labour and Tories going to take away democracy by cancelling local elections . All because you know Reform will win them . RIP democracy and freedom.
Gove has Gove front & centre. Quelle surprise.
Gove has unique anecdotes which others at The Spectator can’t provide. Why would they just pretend he wasn’t there for the big moments?
Quentin Letts reminds me of all the things that are wrong with the chattering classes (no matter the politics).
I mean he extricates himself v well from complete govt failure over the last 14 years
@@alastair08 The Brutish have short memories and attention spans.
Michael Gove, funny? Laughing at your own jokes does little to make them amusing to anyone else. Ditto the other bloke. Has everyone in the Spectator office been imbibing the yuletide grog? This years events have been about as uplifting as the much publicised, impending end of the world scenario. Katy is Queen of the Tartan! ❤❤❤
reform will have opportunities in 2025 because Labour is so poor, and tories have no credibility ...
All one the Labour and Tories have to do is expose Reforms plans to privatise the NHS and support will slip away from the Reform party. Gove is right they are like the SDP.
Such a joke that the odious Michael Gove is the editor of this great magazine. Bring back Fraser Nelson.
Give Douglas the helm. He could steer it with his little finger.
Andrew Neil was great
I believe the new owner of the Spectator is an honorable, successful and very intelligent gentleman.
What, though, could possibly be the point of appointing someone like Michael Gove.
He will not command the respect of the readership.
And his “humor” is NOT funny.
I also note 📝 an increase in what I can only politely term as odd left wing or muddled articles.
For heaven’s sake please bring in a serious 🧐 person as soon as possible !
(Signed by a Paying Subscriber)
Katy Balls is actually right about Ashworth losing his seat being a moment of the year. Five sitting Labour MP's defeated by candidates who came from nowhere - complete nobodies. It could only have been achieved by muslim block voting. This is a harbinger of what is to come in the future. Pity they didn't have the courage to explore that more in their discussion.
The Tory party is decadent
they have nothing on the lord Ali situation.
@@disaffected_malcontent
I wouldn’t “bet the ranch on that” quite yet.
Why gove
He's the editor of the spectator
@@djunior874
Is that such a good look ?
Kemi versus Farage? A fight for a knife in an inflatable life-boat…
Still heaped in the old guard , they have not learned anything !
Yes, completely tone deaf to the current Zeitgeist !
Michael Gove, characteristically disingenuous and called out bt by Quentin Letts.
Reform didnt split the Right. Those voters woukd have either stayed at home or given Labour an even bigger majority. And no mention of Immigration being the deciding issue.
If the opinion polls had been putting Labour on 34% rather than on 45% for the two years before the election, the Conservatives might not have panicked so much, and more Conservative voters might have shown up to vote on the day. More than any election I can remember, in 2024 it was the opinion polls what won it for Labour.
Perhaps, to a certain degree. But the faux conservatives of the CPP and CCHQ cursed themselves by the wilful betrayal of their natural and traditional, true conservative supporters. People like me. I shall not trust them or vote for them again, and I am not the only one.
Opinions polls are for controlling the voters.
A number of surveys have been conducted about this subject . There is some credence to the idea that the the opinion polls for Labour giving them such a huge lead could potentially have resulted in voter apathy among many Labour supporters who assumed it as a done deal this which drove down their share of the vote. There is also a lot of evidence that the left voted tactically which is why we saw the Lib Dems do so well .
The Tories panicking didn't help and I it seemed an odd tactical decision for Sunak went to the country in July. Perhaps things were falling apart in the Tory party a greater rate than everyone suspected . Maybe they would have had a third leadership contest to replace him which would have resulted in more chaos and division in a party that was already at war with itself. Its overly simplistic to blame the loss on the polls alone, it was because the Tories had been a mess for several years. Boris, Truss and Sunak all played their part in that downfall.
@@TomOBedlam-b2h So you think 11% of voters were so certain that Labour would win that they both 1) apathetically didn’t bother to vote at all and 2) enthusiastically voted tactically in some wholly new way? Opinion polls are now putting Labour in third place, behind the Conservatives and Reform. If your analysis is right, the disillusion with Labour since the election must be even more sudden and dramatic than it seems.
I could believe that Labour turnout was reduced a bit by overconfident no-shows (maybe 3%?), but 11% feels implausible. Especially since the Conservatives had been in power since 2010, and Labour supporters seemed passionate about kicking them out. I also think that tactical voting by Labour supporters in seats where Lib Dems were the main challengers has been going on for some time; it’s nothing new. What was new was Reform splitting the Conservative vote. That seems like a more likely explanation for Lib Dem successes. It will be interesting to see if the new Lib Dem MPs think the best way to retain their seats is to appeal to the Labour tactical voters by supporting house building on the Green Belt, or appeal to the NIMBY instincts of traditional Conservative voters.
Polls have had a tendency to overestimate Labour support, notably in 1992 and 2015.
@@TomOBedlam-b2h
Prima facie, it was failed Tory policies and, in some instances of critically important issues (such as unlimited mass migration), that understandably turned people off the Tories.
It's going to be fun watching The Spectator's coverage under its new ownership. 3:40
Doesn’t look good so far
Gove back on the stripe, blatantly 😂
Why am I paying tio keep the appalling Gove in clover? Yeuch. Perhaps I won't. Toby Young please. I can't watch. Cindy and Katy please stop laughing at his slimy personage.
Yes, it's all pretty creepy. I don't think any of these people struggled for anything in their lives. An ex coke head running our government.
Their fake laughter is grating.
The difference between mere politicians and real leaders. Plenty of posers bur why have we no leaders?
Absolutely love Cindy’s longer hair. I hope to see more of her in 2025…👀
The prolonged laugh at Michael‘s every funny is a bit much, Cindy. Best left for later in the afternoon at J. Sheekey. (Recommend the half dozen huîtres Jersey with a glass of Ruinart Blanc de Blancs.)
Yes, they are very adept at creating their own self congratulatory echo chamber.
The Uk is finished
Gosh…it’s all so funny…chuckle chuckle…ah well: there goes the future for your kids….🤢
Loved the conversation, thanks very much!
Snake
Cove !
I was really not aware that gove was such a humouroous, popular and charismatic chap. There are so many clips of the spectator staff chuckling heartily at his good natured jokes and insightful quips.
It's called bootlicking, brown-nosing and snivelling.
Well he is the boss, they have to laugh
"that is the moment you say up and at'em". "haw haw". "giggle". "michael you tell the most funny anecdotes"
@@kbdkbd99 that's because he isn't.
🤢
What a good watch!
Michael Gove has a good sense of humor.
for a repulsive creep that is.
@@iconicon5642 100% ex coke head running our government
🤮
Really? Honestly? 😂😂😂