Anyone else feel weirdly hungry after watching this guide? IMPORTANT NOTES: - 134 is still a great breakpoint for DPS (and certain tuning units like Bronya), and if you want to max out your build and you have the rest of the unit's stats then why not. - Speed is still important, I note that a lot. The whole concept of this vid is explaining SPD and how important it is as well as avoiding overbuilding it at the sacrifice of other stats. - Another important note FOR speed is that many enemies are very fast in the endgame, and speed translates to easier sustain as well as more DPS actions inbetween their actions to save your team / BREAK the enemy / kill the enemy. - Break units want SPD too since their DMG will scale on BE for DMG and Speed technically since more actions means faster breaks. - A note AGAINST speed pre end game is that it's one of the rarest main stats and substats. - SPD is less diluted with buffs since we got TONS of ATK%, DMG%, etc. so it's still really nice to have SPD boots, but ofc not mandatory which is the point. - SPD is useful outside of MOC of course, but there aren't specific breakpoints for that, so it's kinda build with what you got
It's worth pointing out that for some rotations, the relative speeds of team members matter (notably slow DHIL) and adding flat speed to all of them can mess up your rotation.
All my DPSs are those who say "Fuck it we ball". SPD is just too complicated and restrictive to build around. It is the third priority for me after getting CR/CD first.
@@DefinitelyNotAFerretinvesting speed in gepard is pain, since his base speed is 92, and his planar no benefit from speed, better use speed boots on hunt harmony character
I was spd tuning a hypercarry Seele team with Yukong for ages. I got it so that at the start of the battle, Seele was the slowest, YK second slowest, then after everyone went, Seele was the fastest and YK the slowest. It was very satisfying when I finally did it. I got YK to e6 with a random standard banner pull like a week later lmao.
It is best to think of SPD like an additional multiplier for your damage in my opinion. So like with other damage multipliers like attack%, crit or damage%, you want to diversify. Going all in on SPD and neglecting other offensive stats at the same time will lead to less damage overall. Likewise ignoring SPD in favour of more crit or attack will also be bad (except for units like Clara whos SPD is essentially the enemies SPD or abusing Bronyas SPD to effectively giving her SPD to an ally). Thats why it is usually the norm to use a crit chest, SPD boots, damage orb and attack rope. So you have every commonly available form of damage multiplier in about equal amounts to maximize damage. The only difference is that SPD only scales linearly in an infinite duration fight. In reality fights only last a finite number of turns and cycles. Thats why breakpoints exist and are worth considering. If having 136 SPD does not actually give you an additional turn over having 134 SPD, the one substat roll in SPD is effectively wasted and would give you marginally more damage if it was a crit or attack sub instead.
@@INTJ791 Yeah there are other units as well that are specific about their SPD. I was just listing a few examples, nothing comprehensive. SPD has more interactions with other gameplay mechanics like SP and turns, so it is a bit harder to generalize than crit or attack who are mostly self contained mechanics.
spd is a team stat. you don't build spd for a character, you build it for an entire team. which is why it tend to be quite difficult to answer "how much spd" on a given character. and often end up with 134 for two turns in the first cycle barring some obvious exceptions. also, that chocolate bar analogy is quite interesting. never thought of spd that way before. I still prefer the running laps analogy where we treat that 10,000 units as the length of one lap and AV would naturally become a time unit. spd * time = distance traveled and its variants are some very straight forward formulas that everyone can understand, hopefully, and IMO very intuitive since the stat here is literally speed. but as long as it does its job, any analogy works.
After watching dreamy's 164 bronya vid and building my own 164 bronya I hope everyone can experience that comfort one day. Making any carry go 3 times in the first turn is amazing.
Glad you enjoyed that vid but I think more context is important! It allows the carry to "not wear speed boots" and yet able to act 3 times on the first cycle which maximizes the impact of each of their turn unlike a 134/135 speed setup for Bronya.
@@LisaraScarlet Thanks for adding more context for others to understand. All your guides work wonderfully and I'm lucky enough to have the relics and light cones to replicate. Continue the awesome work and thanks to you and guoba for spreading the knowledge.
Outside of niche speed checkpoints like 140 Jing Yuan or Bronya speeds, the most relevant speed check to me is for the planar ornaments that need speed. We may get even more relics in the future that want a certain speed, so they are good minimums to aim for if using those relics.
Thanks for making this video Guoba! I realized that I was reading the speed breakpoint chart wrong and thought that 134 was a lot better than just the extra turn on C0. I can stop sweating over getting 134 at all cost vs 121 with better stats now
i dont believe this video pop up in my recommendation today. I was searching for a speed guide all day yesterday. tq so much for this video and the spreadsheet
I think it should also be said that higher speed can also equate to safer or comfier runs, not just for min-max 0-cycling. By that I mean if on the first turn the enemies are already attacking you before you take your turn then your rotation would be different already. Some of your units may even die if say you have a slow Fu Xuan and she doesn't have her matrix up yet. I do hope also this video of yours doesn't end up being used as justification to not aim for 134 or high speed in general because the vid thumbnail alone implies that.
Personally my own Fu Xuan is very fast, but if your Fu Xuan is slow, you can still have the matrix at the start of many content by using technique before entering the domain/challenge. It also works for SU encounters and occurrences. This is especially important for those FXs who couldn't reach the 7k HP/1.4k Def breakpoint because of speed boots.
The whole start of the vid talks about how important spd is so you'd hope so. But yeah I forgot the comfy / sustain part, added in pinned a bit ago to help!
The only two characters I've deliberately built to go fast are Bronya and Tingyun. I've just left everyone else at whatever speed substats they happen to end up with, and I easily 30-star MoC, although I've never 0-cycled it. Let me tell you, a slow-as-hell Jingliu with 3500+ ATK and a 146 SPD Bronya will shred anything and everything you put in front of them. The non-Bronya team usually has Asta, so they don't really need any dedicated speed boots. I've gotten close to a 0-cycle, but the best I've managed was a 1-cycle on MoC 10 (killed the boss with DoT on literally the first action after the cycle rolled over, I was furious).
I see someone make another great simplification of speed and action values: Imagine a race track and everyone starts running to the end to take their actions, SPD determines how fast you can finish a lap while Advance Forward/Delay is akin to being teleported ahead/backwards on the track
Finally, it's here! Thank you for covering this Guoba, it pains me to constantly see people in discord throwing around "134" without fully understanding it.
Hey Guoba, your spreadsheet mentions Himeko has no speed buffs, but her E1 does provide a 20% speed buff for 2 turns every time she does a follow up. Not really consistent, but could be notable. Sincerely, an E4 Himeko haver
Oh, I didn't know action delay worked with original action gauge. Makes me wonder if I can actually permanently delay enemies in SU/Swarm Disaster with insane luck for delay action blessings.
I feel one thing being ignored in speed discussions is the speed of enemies. Lets only talk about MoC10 for now(ie level 90s). P much all early bosses had 157-158 speed, with some of the never additions having 152 for Deer and a whooping 190 for Swarm. Especially with upcoming potential break related characters, or characters that would want to refresh certain effects on the enemy before they take their turn again, speed stops being this esoteric actions per cycle mentality, and rather actions between relevant enemy actions becomes more important. Quick example, assuming I break Kafka after her second time acting in cycle 0, how much speed would my sushang need to act naturally within the weakness broken period. Too often weakness break delays do seemingly nothing and no one takes advantage of the fact they deal 11% extra damage that is multiplicative with everything else because speed tuning is solely considered from the current break point view, while the most common enemy speeds(158 and 132) are seemingly quite intentionally placed directly under popular breakpoints such as 134 and 161, which will near universally lead to breaks happening just before the opponent could act, which can be good for interrupting them but non ideal. While ultimates allow you to time breaks more precisely outside of your speed dictated orders, but the availability window is still restricted by when the turn where enough energy was attained.
I still don't understand action value. You said that everyone contributes to the 10000 at the same time, but you also said that to get a turn, a character has to get through the 10000 first. But when does it tick down? Every unit turn? Does every unit have their own 10000 to go through? If my character has 100 speed then wouldn't they need to wait 100 turns? Or is the 10000 shared with every unit in battle? But then... I'm so confused... Edit: Okay from what I understand, the first to get to the end of this 10000 goes first, then the next unit to take a turn will be the one that would have consumed all of the remaining of the 10000 if it weren't for the first unit, and so on?
its simple for me. as long as i get really good main/substat im fine with that even if there's no speed in it unless its an SP generator heavy like pela
i have a tingyun on vv, luocha and jingliu on 140, and bronya on 139 so i can get all buffs and get 2 stacks early without technique, super useful for everyday farming, only downside is that using pela becomes suboptimal on the first rotation in moc since i use up all of the stacks before pela gets a turn in moc (i probably should use vv on pela too to compensate)
wouldn't you want low speed on tingyun? like i get that then in the first turn your dps won't have buffs, but also the faster she is, the faster her stacks expire, the more skill points you'll have to use
Are you considering updating the document as more units come by? I finally got to roll Huohuo and I'm wondering if it's better to delay her actions to get more value out of her healing stacks, or just speed her up to charge her ult faster
Gouba, I'm confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information about what the speed breakpoints are. From googling, people are saying that the important breakpoint is 143, while you list 146.7. Is 143 not a real speed breakpoint? Should I not bother going above 134 speed at all if I can't hit 147? 😿
i was watching this vid and nodding but i'm not sure how much i understand. i suppose with double cavern in a few days i'll get to experiment with Luocha if it is 2pc Musketeer or 2pc Messenger (with 2pc healer) is better for my team
@@guobacertifiedeasier than being faster than dps to activate matrix first. But faster than dps also means matrix will die quicker. So slower than the team with Vonwacq feel like a nice strat
in razor language: high spd good in most cases high spd not always good dmg better than spd on most carries spd better on supports more spd means more sp and more sp means good 134 spd means 2 actions on first cycle
Lightning lord has his own speed. So JY being at 134 doesn’t do much for LL since we don’t care about cycles here but actions before lightning lord. I have some speed guidelines for him in the sheet
I definitely want my sustain and support around 150ish-160spd, excluding Branya since you already know.. DPS like DHIL I keep him at 134, while my nihility characters I'm trying to hit that 160 speed.
Forgot to sub last time. I never bothered with speed at the start of the game due to the first two 5 stars I got. So I need to save this vid lol. Bronya just laughs at it. Clara doesn't need it.
This is why Welt and Bronya's kits are so op in a turn based game. Able to manipulate turn orders in a turn based game are the best abilities someone's kit can have.
I am completely fine losing more 50/50 to these two units. I have Welt E1 and he can easily clear any content in the game without massively investing into him. Enemies just don’t get their turn.
@@Marvinzum I have E0 Welt but i use him in a mono img comp. That's my fixed team. The other side is made of Jing Yuan/Clara/Seele/Jingliu. Though Jingliu is the heavy hitter these days.
something quite helpful to know is that the speed substats have decimals that are not shown ingame, so technically blade and bronya could both have 134 speed but blade will have a turn before her as long as he has one decimal higher
@homudarkhow is a Bronya faster than the dps better in most cases? That just sounds wrong to me, maybe coz i dont have Bronya. Isn't better in most cases for the dps to go first so Bronya can give them a second turn?
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483Fast Bronya still does that while also generating skill points, or giving even more turns. Slow Bronya also crumbles to CC super hard, while Fast Bronya kinda automatically corrects the rotation.
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483the idea of fast bronya is to make her SP netural by doing normal attack once, and after normal attack bronya position will be under you main carry and able do to her skill. this also greatly effect her energy regeneration too. so more buff uptime, also can have kore 'free' turn in case shit happen. depends on your playstyle. i see ome pople always use asta with LC that give energy and ER rope to make asta always give 52 speed (ye she E6) so the other dps character can use atk boots or something to increase their dmg. also luocha with 210 speed after buff is funny
@@guobacertifiedcan u also explain why sometimes example of a random scenario of order topaz, herta, huohuo and march 7. sometimes herta ca overtake topaz, why does that happend? Does speed get change mid battle?
I understood quite a bit about speed, but this was way more eye-opening than I expected. Bless both you and your friend for the chocolate bar analogy. Also, the action delay is the part that I definitely did not understand. Thank you very very much for the amazingly clarifying guide.
@@guobacertified You're extremely welcome. I sent it to a couple of my friends because they've been having trouble with their builds and in MoC. At least one of them said it did a much better job than I did. Which is not surprising because I've simply been regurgitating what I've seen in videos like yours, but doing it badly.
I already had a rough understanding of how speed works, thanks to my long history of playing turn-based games. However, hearing about a buff that helps you eat chocolate bars faster was a unique and memorable experience. 👍
Really hope this video and the sheet will remain viable for a while because this is really amazing and could define how to speed your characters in a optimal way so you dont mess up your rotation. I know speed is really important but i had no idea how much was really needed in HSR .Thanks alot !
For those that don't want to do too much thinking. Just go full spd as long as they are supports, and depending who benefits from whose buffs, make them go first. More spd, more sp, more energy. However, only aim for thresholds, such as 143 instead of 141 not worth it if spd are at awkward numbers. DPS will always be the slowest to min-max damage. Don't have to think too much. (This is if you use Asta/Bronya, if you need spd boots, then you need spd tuning)
Speed is weird, I was lucky on my dot team where until a new DoT set releases I have everyone speed turned (I wasn’t even trying at first) to be 1-2 spd faster then Kafka, at 135, so while it’s too much speed, the 3 4* dot supports go first and Kafka gets to take 2 turns a cycle. I also have her signature LC so she speeds up after turn 1, hopefully that Dot set is kind to me and gives me a bunch of good sets. Although I’m not 0 cycle int, so maybe I’m better off with atk boots on everyone but Kafka.
how much speed would my e2 bronya need to auto attack and then get another turn on the same cycle since her trace gives her 20% action foward because my jinglui has 134 speed but as soon as I use bronya skill she messes up my speed tuning cause of her e2 and I'm to stupid to figure it out
This is something I've been saying for a while. Speed is important. But unless you are min/maxing for time sensitive content, it is more important to hit thresholds for your relics and set priorities for your turn order than to chase the biggest number you can reach. And a character that moves often but provides little value on their turn might as well be an empty slot.
I gave up on SPD stats for my characters. Probably to my detriment, yes, but having to tune each character's SPD is a bitch because of Relic RNG, so it's not personally worth it for me.
@@INTJ791 Eh, not so much time. It's more that Trailblaze Power is a finite resource, and using it to get the "perfect" Relics can only get you so far, especially when one's luck typically fluctuates.
Here’s my guidelines. 121 spd to go twice on turn 2. 134 spd to go twice turn 1 and turn 4. 143 spd to go twice turn 1 and 3. 149 (or 150 spd, I forgot) to go twice every other turn. 161 spd for tingyun. And then I just don’t like to chase spd, becuz eventually everyone will reach a point where the content is just too easy and you’ll rather want to do more dmg than go more turns
Bigger mouths after encouragement from Bronya. So it's good, but can make speed tuning more complicated. Notbably, hyperspeed Bronya (Bronya Basic+ just ready for next skil just after DPS) is near impossible to archieve, because your DPS is such a faster eater that you can't get your Bronya hungry enough.
If you Have E2 bronya it gives a 30% Spd Buff which should be at 30 SPD at 100 SPD. Meaning If your Ally is at 100 Spd and Bronya is at 129 SPD they should take action before her
After DPS takes their action they zoom ahead the next turn, so they can end up going before Bronya. Some people tune DPS to abuse this and let DPS -> Bronya -> DPS happen without SPD boots
Does 129 SPD on QQ hit a certain breakpoint in number of turn? I am not interested in 0 cycling MoC I did some calculations assuming all attacks are enhanced and found that with 10% spd boost post 1st turn with - 99 SPD = 8 turns 111 SPD = 9 turns 123 SPD = 10 turns 135 SPD = 11 turns Please correct me if i am wrong
@@guobacertified I see But i wanna know about number of turns after i get after all enhanced attacks I haven't activated her traces for spd boost. What i did was solved (10000/SPD) + (10000/1.1*SPD)*n = 750 For n = 7,8,9,10 number of turns. Is this equation right?
Would you be interested in doing videos on each main dps in depth guides? Like this stat at 134 is very good for this character bc in each rotation this can happen or set you up for getting more energy. Bc i honestly have a hard time with speed stats and i typically dislike csring about anything above i 120 speed as 121 seems to do very well on my Jing Yuan team.
Honestly, at first I didn't care about character's spd, but spd tuning is quite important to decide character's turn. whether 121, 134, 146 or 160. i only make sure about a character's turn being exactly where it's supposed to be, not anything else. But, that changed when my bronya was E2. I always bring bronya to Jingliu party. But there was a problem when my bronya cast a skill on Jingliu. The 30% spd buff from E2 changed my character order and this made me frustrated. So I decided to speed tune two characters besides Jingliu and Bronya (my Bronya is -1 spd already) to be very fast (spd 150+) to avoid changing the order.
Great, informative breakdown of speed! I'm not starting to tune my second team (since I have now beaten the story content and now shifting to endgame (MoC, Pure Fiction, etc) so understanding how that breakdown happens will help me be able to focus more on the stats that matter if speed isn't as needed as I thought before. Enjoying your content for the characters as well when it helps boil down the information that can be gained from buildsites that give me a base level information of BiS gear. But now that Sparkle has kinda shifted the game, what would be a good number to shoot for her? I'd think the 134 would be the ideal but could stack more crit damage if only needing 121.
Anyone else feel weirdly hungry after watching this guide?
IMPORTANT NOTES:
- 134 is still a great breakpoint for DPS (and certain tuning units like Bronya), and if you want to max out your build and you have the rest of the unit's stats then why not.
- Speed is still important, I note that a lot. The whole concept of this vid is explaining SPD and how important it is as well as avoiding overbuilding it at the sacrifice of other stats.
- Another important note FOR speed is that many enemies are very fast in the endgame, and speed translates to easier sustain as well as more DPS actions inbetween their actions to save your team / BREAK the enemy / kill the enemy.
- Break units want SPD too since their DMG will scale on BE for DMG and Speed technically since more actions means faster breaks.
- A note AGAINST speed pre end game is that it's one of the rarest main stats and substats.
- SPD is less diluted with buffs since we got TONS of ATK%, DMG%, etc. so it's still really nice to have SPD boots, but ofc not mandatory which is the point.
- SPD is useful outside of MOC of course, but there aren't specific breakpoints for that, so it's kinda build with what you got
I’m hungry for some more guoba content
keep cooking
It is Halloween, time for candyyyyy! 😂
My characters generally have between 125 maximum 135 (my Lyxn went too far with 140 F) xd
Why 161?? its 160 no?
It's worth pointing out that for some rotations, the relative speeds of team members matter (notably slow DHIL) and adding flat speed to all of them can mess up your rotation.
gepard + slow DHIL team
So what you're saying is... I shouldn't run a 140 speed dhil with a 135 speed gepard 😆still figuring the team out
huh... how much chocolate are we talking
All my DPSs are those who say "Fuck it we ball". SPD is just too complicated and restrictive to build around. It is the third priority for me after getting CR/CD first.
@@DefinitelyNotAFerretinvesting speed in gepard is pain, since his base speed is 92, and his planar no benefit from speed, better use speed boots on hunt harmony character
I thought SPD increases running speed 💀
NAH BECAUSE SAME HELP😭😭
As a persona fan I thought SPD was hit/evasion rate when I started hsr 💀 💀
I was spd tuning a hypercarry Seele team with Yukong for ages. I got it so that at the start of the battle, Seele was the slowest, YK second slowest, then after everyone went, Seele was the fastest and YK the slowest. It was very satisfying when I finally did it. I got YK to e6 with a random standard banner pull like a week later lmao.
tuning Yukong to Seele is fucking madlad moment. You a psycho lmao
mean while i keep getting shitty destruction LCs I'll never use in my life:(
Damn pro team builder ^^
@@Goose____pass the destruction
It is best to think of SPD like an additional multiplier for your damage in my opinion. So like with other damage multipliers like attack%, crit or damage%, you want to diversify. Going all in on SPD and neglecting other offensive stats at the same time will lead to less damage overall. Likewise ignoring SPD in favour of more crit or attack will also be bad (except for units like Clara whos SPD is essentially the enemies SPD or abusing Bronyas SPD to effectively giving her SPD to an ally). Thats why it is usually the norm to use a crit chest, SPD boots, damage orb and attack rope. So you have every commonly available form of damage multiplier in about equal amounts to maximize damage.
The only difference is that SPD only scales linearly in an infinite duration fight. In reality fights only last a finite number of turns and cycles. Thats why breakpoints exist and are worth considering. If having 136 SPD does not actually give you an additional turn over having 134 SPD, the one substat roll in SPD is effectively wasted and would give you marginally more damage if it was a crit or attack sub instead.
you forget other than clara, slow danheng IL team plus gepard no need speed, since you want ensure to spam fulgurant leap
@@INTJ791 Yeah there are other units as well that are specific about their SPD. I was just listing a few examples, nothing comprehensive. SPD has more interactions with other gameplay mechanics like SP and turns, so it is a bit harder to generalize than crit or attack who are mostly self contained mechanics.
Clearest explanation of the topic I have come across so far. Excellent job!
spd is a team stat. you don't build spd for a character, you build it for an entire team. which is why it tend to be quite difficult to answer "how much spd" on a given character. and often end up with 134 for two turns in the first cycle barring some obvious exceptions.
also, that chocolate bar analogy is quite interesting. never thought of spd that way before. I still prefer the running laps analogy where we treat that 10,000 units as the length of one lap and AV would naturally become a time unit. spd * time = distance traveled and its variants are some very straight forward formulas that everyone can understand, hopefully, and IMO very intuitive since the stat here is literally speed. but as long as it does its job, any analogy works.
After watching dreamy's 164 bronya vid and building my own 164 bronya I hope everyone can experience that comfort one day. Making any carry go 3 times in the first turn is amazing.
164 is required? I thought it's only 161. I have a long way to go.
Glad you enjoyed that vid but I think more context is important!
It allows the carry to "not wear speed boots" and yet able to act 3 times on the first cycle which maximizes the impact of each of their turn unlike a 134/135 speed setup for Bronya.
@@LisaraScarlet can you make speed for supports guide pls, love your content so much it made me build more high investment sups.
@@LisaraScarlet Thanks for adding more context for others to understand. All your guides work wonderfully and I'm lucky enough to have the relics and light cones to replicate. Continue the awesome work and thanks to you and guoba for spreading the knowledge.
@@ranieleulloran5299164 cuz of her 30% turn advance.
Outside of niche speed checkpoints like 140 Jing Yuan or Bronya speeds, the most relevant speed check to me is for the planar ornaments that need speed. We may get even more relics in the future that want a certain speed, so they are good minimums to aim for if using those relics.
160 new ornaments set.
This is BY FAR the easiest to understand speed guide video I've watched. Thank Guob 😊
WOOOOOO!
thx mr. guoba, the spreadsheet was really helpful for me to choose which main i use for Fu Xuan
Glad it helped !
Thanks for making this video Guoba! I realized that I was reading the speed breakpoint chart wrong and thought that 134 was a lot better than just the extra turn on C0. I can stop sweating over getting 134 at all cost vs 121 with better stats now
It is better than just the extra turn c0, with the 4th and 7th cycle, but since 121 can still get two bonus actions then yeah it’s not as magical
i dont believe this video pop up in my recommendation today. I was searching for a speed guide all day yesterday. tq so much for this video and the spreadsheet
No problemo !
omgg this video is so needed for me, i still don't understand how speed/breakpoints work fully
thank you!!
Here to help ❤️
It good to know which characters need speed and hate speed.
My DPS Silver Wolf Has exactly 134 speed which I am really happy with. Really helps her out a ton
I think it should also be said that higher speed can also equate to safer or comfier runs, not just for min-max 0-cycling. By that I mean if on the first turn the enemies are already attacking you before you take your turn then your rotation would be different already. Some of your units may even die if say you have a slow Fu Xuan and she doesn't have her matrix up yet.
I do hope also this video of yours doesn't end up being used as justification to not aim for 134 or high speed in general because the vid thumbnail alone implies that.
Personally my own Fu Xuan is very fast, but if your Fu Xuan is slow, you can still have the matrix at the start of many content by using technique before entering the domain/challenge. It also works for SU encounters and occurrences. This is especially important for those FXs who couldn't reach the 7k HP/1.4k Def breakpoint because of speed boots.
My Fu Xuan is at 115 speed and I can agree I need at least to be at 120-121 I think
The whole start of the vid talks about how important spd is so you'd hope so. But yeah I forgot the comfy / sustain part, added in pinned a bit ago to help!
The only two characters I've deliberately built to go fast are Bronya and Tingyun. I've just left everyone else at whatever speed substats they happen to end up with, and I easily 30-star MoC, although I've never 0-cycled it. Let me tell you, a slow-as-hell Jingliu with 3500+ ATK and a 146 SPD Bronya will shred anything and everything you put in front of them. The non-Bronya team usually has Asta, so they don't really need any dedicated speed boots. I've gotten close to a 0-cycle, but the best I've managed was a 1-cycle on MoC 10 (killed the boss with DoT on literally the first action after the cycle rolled over, I was furious).
I see someone make another great simplification of speed and action values:
Imagine a race track and everyone starts running to the end to take their actions, SPD determines how fast you can finish a lap while Advance Forward/Delay is akin to being teleported ahead/backwards on the track
Yep I remember that one, its great too!
So welt is generous chocolate guy he always giving them the bar of choco
Yep! very kind
With a certain someone's light cone coming out soon, stacking as much SPD as possible will also be viable not just based off of breakpoints.
As someone whi started playing with playstation release this helps a LOT. Thanks
im glad it did! welcome to the game :D
Finally, it's here!
Thank you for covering this Guoba, it pains me to constantly see people in discord throwing around "134" without fully understanding it.
No problem Dino with a capital D
Huh. Right as I was thinking about farming speed boots for my supports, Guoba drops a guide.
PERFECT
well the sheet mentions for every support except yukong speed is great to build as much as you want as long as you don't lose too many defensive stats
I have high speed on my Internet, Browser, Media and Mouse to watch all of the Guoba content oh yessss!
Edison your comments are the best
Amazing vid mrpoeratoe, didn't really think too much about speed before
this helps sm, i can see clearly now
I like to use Asta, Sampoo and Sushang. They always have more moves in a single turn and it's pretty nice.
this is a really really awesome guide guoba
Thank you so much!
Hey Guoba, your spreadsheet mentions Himeko has no speed buffs, but her E1 does provide a 20% speed buff for 2 turns every time she does a follow up. Not really consistent, but could be notable. Sincerely, an E4 Himeko haver
Thanks bestie I’ll note it
Oh, I didn't know action delay worked with original action gauge. Makes me wonder if I can actually permanently delay enemies in SU/Swarm Disaster with insane luck for delay action blessings.
hm maybe theres a cap? But if not go wild
You're the only content creator I can watch for more than 1 minute without having my attention broken... Your explanations are amazing!!
Means a lot! Thank you
I feel one thing being ignored in speed discussions is the speed of enemies. Lets only talk about MoC10 for now(ie level 90s). P much all early bosses had 157-158 speed, with some of the never additions having 152 for Deer and a whooping 190 for Swarm. Especially with upcoming potential break related characters, or characters that would want to refresh certain effects on the enemy before they take their turn again, speed stops being this esoteric actions per cycle mentality, and rather actions between relevant enemy actions becomes more important.
Quick example, assuming I break Kafka after her second time acting in cycle 0, how much speed would my sushang need to act naturally within the weakness broken period. Too often weakness break delays do seemingly nothing and no one takes advantage of the fact they deal 11% extra damage that is multiplicative with everything else because speed tuning is solely considered from the current break point view, while the most common enemy speeds(158 and 132) are seemingly quite intentionally placed directly under popular breakpoints such as 134 and 161, which will near universally lead to breaks happening just before the opponent could act, which can be good for interrupting them but non ideal.
While ultimates allow you to time breaks more precisely outside of your speed dictated orders, but the availability window is still restricted by when the turn where enough energy was attained.
Yeah I noted this in the pinned comment and its important to have spd for these high spd enemies ^^ thanks!
Hi, i was wondering if using eagle on all dps is a good idea?
Ha! Hope for the best is my motto.
I still don't understand action value. You said that everyone contributes to the 10000 at the same time, but you also said that to get a turn, a character has to get through the 10000 first. But when does it tick down? Every unit turn? Does every unit have their own 10000 to go through? If my character has 100 speed then wouldn't they need to wait 100 turns? Or is the 10000 shared with every unit in battle? But then... I'm so confused...
Edit: Okay from what I understand, the first to get to the end of this 10000 goes first, then the next unit to take a turn will be the one that would have consumed all of the remaining of the 10000 if it weren't for the first unit, and so on?
I feel like i have to confess. I have been watching your channel since the beginning of Star Rail, and I wasn’t subscribed until today
🥹 I forgive you
its simple for me. as long as i get really good main/substat im fine with that even if there's no speed in it unless its an SP generator heavy like pela
I spat out hearing Asta's part XD
thank you feddy fastbear
i have a tingyun on vv, luocha and jingliu on 140, and bronya on 139 so i can get all buffs and get 2 stacks early without technique, super useful for everyday farming, only downside is that using pela becomes suboptimal on the first rotation in moc since i use up all of the stacks before pela gets a turn in moc (i probably should use vv on pela too to compensate)
VV? Is that vonwacq
@@guobacertified yep
Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a room. A rubber room. A rubber room with Speed Breakpoints. And Speed Breakpoints make me Crazy.
Crazy? I was crazy once.
121/134 spd. More spd would only go for hyperdps and /or hanya like char.
never expected to see analogy where more chocolate = bad
lmao true
wouldn't you want low speed on tingyun? like i get that then in the first turn your dps won't have buffs, but also the faster she is, the faster her stacks expire, the more skill points you'll have to use
She generates SP on average so if she’s faster she will actually generate you more SP. Her stacks expire on the buffed ally turn too not hers
@@guobacertifiedoh actually? shit i didn't know that, thanks for letting me know
This was so helpful; thank you so much ☺️
Are you considering updating the document as more units come by? I finally got to roll Huohuo and I'm wondering if it's better to delay her actions to get more value out of her healing stacks, or just speed her up to charge her ult faster
Yes I will :)
Gouba, I'm confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information about what the speed breakpoints are. From googling, people are saying that the important breakpoint is 143, while you list 146.7. Is 143 not a real speed breakpoint? Should I not bother going above 134 speed at all if I can't hit 147? 😿
i was watching this vid and nodding but i'm not sure how much i understand.
i suppose with double cavern in a few days i'll get to experiment with Luocha if it is 2pc Musketeer or 2pc Messenger (with 2pc healer) is better for my team
Slow Fu Xuan with Vonwacq. Great strat
Just gotta hit 120 for the push
@@guobacertifiedeasier than being faster than dps to activate matrix first. But faster than dps also means matrix will die quicker. So slower than the team with Vonwacq feel like a nice strat
Good thing i only do speed on supports
4:09 why is she looking at the chocolate bar like that? does she hate it? is it a villain in her eyes? i guess we'll never know
She knows about Big Choco
My Seele has 133 speed. One more point yet it's so hard.
if its 133.4 then youre all good. But seele self buffs so only needs 121 speed to hit the 134 bonus action :)
Reject speed, embrace clara
I still use slowkong
Slowkong is goated
so i am not schizo about the increasing of moc reward cycle from 14 to 16. no wonder i felt so weird all of sudden.
Think theyve increased it twice now to make content harder!
@@guobacertified oh my, thats gonna be challenging. Anyway, thanks for the speed explanation. The chocolate bar makes me craving for some reason 😆
"Asta's Ultimate makes everyone's mouths a bit bigger"
Lmao the newbies reading this be like: "Wth??" xDD
Hahaha yep
I have a need for speed.
kachow
Never enough speed boots.
in razor language:
high spd good in most cases
high spd not always good
dmg better than spd on most carries
spd better on supports
more spd means more sp and more sp means good
134 spd means 2 actions on first cycle
Dmg better than high spd on most carries yep ! They wanna stick to 134 breakpoints at max unless it’s a unit like Kafka or the dot detonators
Can u explain lightning lord
Lightning lord has his own speed. So JY being at 134 doesn’t do much for LL since we don’t care about cycles here but actions before lightning lord. I have some speed guidelines for him in the sheet
Is having a 161 speed ruan mei ok?
Accidentally got a 156 speed yukong lmao
if your dps is behind her and she doesnt die then why not ^^
Nice guide man that was quite dare I say.. bite-sized
HO HO very good
I definitely want my sustain and support around 150ish-160spd, excluding Branya since you already know..
DPS like DHIL I keep him at 134, while my nihility characters I'm trying to hit that 160 speed.
Forgot to sub last time.
I never bothered with speed at the start of the game due to the first two 5 stars I got. So I need to save this vid lol.
Bronya just laughs at it. Clara doesn't need it.
ty for the sub :)
hope the vid helps!
How do I display the speed in the left side panel?
In settings there’s a display action value setting
Guoba is ELITE when it comes to explaining things. Great guide sir 🥸👍🏻
Thanks :)
You should make your Gouba Cuter man
I feel so bad the poor Pixelless gouba 😔🥲
:( wtf I’m no pro pixel artist WHY THE SLANDER D:
This is why Welt and Bronya's kits are so op in a turn based game. Able to manipulate turn orders in a turn based game are the best abilities someone's kit can have.
I am completely fine losing more 50/50 to these two units. I have Welt E1 and he can easily clear any content in the game without massively investing into him. Enemies just don’t get their turn.
@@Marvinzum I have E0 Welt but i use him in a mono img comp. That's my fixed team. The other side is made of Jing Yuan/Clara/Seele/Jingliu. Though Jingliu is the heavy hitter these days.
So true
@@Marvinzum A fellow E1 Welt enjoyer
I have an E1 welt but don’t really know how I want to build him yet. He’s pretty strong even with the bad gear I have on him
something quite helpful to know is that the speed substats have decimals that are not shown ingame, so technically blade and bronya could both have 134 speed but blade will have a turn before her as long as he has one decimal higher
My smolbrain mindset for speed: just make the supports faster than the dps unless bronya haha.
Great video Guoba.
Yknow that works
Same mindset here. Just make buff/debuffers faster than DPS so they can do their thing while healers/tanks can go whatever lol
@homudarkhow is a Bronya faster than the dps better in most cases? That just sounds wrong to me, maybe coz i dont have Bronya. Isn't better in most cases for the dps to go first so Bronya can give them a second turn?
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483Fast Bronya still does that while also generating skill points, or giving even more turns. Slow Bronya also crumbles to CC super hard, while Fast Bronya kinda automatically corrects the rotation.
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483the idea of fast bronya is to make her SP netural by doing normal attack once, and after normal attack bronya position will be under you main carry and able do to her skill. this also greatly effect her energy regeneration too. so more buff uptime, also can have kore 'free' turn in case shit happen. depends on your playstyle. i see ome pople always use asta with LC that give energy and ER rope to make asta always give 52 speed (ye she E6) so the other dps character can use atk boots or something to increase their dmg. also luocha with 210 speed after buff is funny
Rule of thumb for myself: As long as I can clear MOC within 16 turns, I don't give a damn if I have 134 Speed or not :)
FR
within 14 cycles*
It’s 14 cycles now but I love it
20cycle now omg
Hoyo must've saw your comment 😂
the quality and quantity of your content is genuinely insane🤠👍
Tysm! :)
@@guobacertifiedcan u also explain why sometimes example of a random scenario of order topaz, herta, huohuo and march 7. sometimes herta ca overtake topaz, why does that happend? Does speed get change mid battle?
I understood quite a bit about speed, but this was way more eye-opening than I expected. Bless both you and your friend for the chocolate bar analogy. Also, the action delay is the part that I definitely did not understand. Thank you very very much for the amazingly clarifying guide.
Tysm for the kind comment! :D glad it helped
@@guobacertified You're extremely welcome. I sent it to a couple of my friends because they've been having trouble with their builds and in MoC. At least one of them said it did a much better job than I did. Which is not surprising because I've simply been regurgitating what I've seen in videos like yours, but doing it badly.
I already had a rough understanding of how speed works, thanks to my long history of playing turn-based games.
However, hearing about a buff that helps you eat chocolate bars faster was a unique and memorable experience. 👍
HAHA I’m glad! ❤️
In short, my 160 speed Bailu equipped with S5 Multiplication now has diabetes. Thanks, I wouldn't have known.
LMAO yes
Mmmm... Suddenly I feel like eating chocolate.
i wanted to go slownae but i lucked out with 148 on luocha, 138 on silver, 136 on yukong, so i went and grinded lunae up to 135
Really hope this video and the sheet will remain viable for a while because this is really amazing and could define how to speed your characters in a optimal way so you dont mess up your rotation. I know speed is really important but i had no idea how much was really needed in HSR .Thanks alot !
Glad you liked it!
Your spreadsheet link in the description is actually really helpful! Will the spreadsheet be updated every time a character comes out?
Hopefully so.
Yea I plan on doing so, done the same for EHR
For those that don't want to do too much thinking.
Just go full spd as long as they are supports, and depending who benefits from whose buffs, make them go first.
More spd, more sp, more energy.
However, only aim for thresholds, such as 143 instead of 141 not worth it if spd are at awkward numbers.
DPS will always be the slowest to min-max damage. Don't have to think too much.
(This is if you use Asta/Bronya, if you need spd boots, then you need spd tuning)
I was gonna say it's not but then I wasn't fast enough to comment this, so yes, speed is the most important stat.
Lmao
Speed is weird, I was lucky on my dot team where until a new DoT set releases I have everyone speed turned (I wasn’t even trying at first) to be 1-2 spd faster then Kafka, at 135, so while it’s too much speed, the 3 4* dot supports go first and Kafka gets to take 2 turns a cycle. I also have her signature LC so she speeds up after turn 1, hopefully that Dot set is kind to me and gives me a bunch of good sets. Although I’m not 0 cycle int, so maybe I’m better off with atk boots on everyone but Kafka.
That speed sounds fine :) we still like speed, and thats a good way of tuning her
how much speed would my e2 bronya need to auto attack and then get another turn on the same cycle since her trace gives her 20% action foward because my jinglui has 134 speed but as soon as I use bronya skill she messes up my speed tuning cause of her e2 and I'm to stupid to figure it out
E2 Bronya should skill spam, and that makes jingliu go ahead of bronya, which is what you want no?
This is something I've been saying for a while. Speed is important. But unless you are min/maxing for time sensitive content, it is more important to hit thresholds for your relics and set priorities for your turn order than to chase the biggest number you can reach. And a character that moves often but provides little value on their turn might as well be an empty slot.
In Guoba we trust
thanks kinda mad :')
@@guobacertified :)
I just understand about chocolate bars in this video🤣. Thank you Guoba!!!
Perfect , chocolate bar propaganda
I gave up on SPD stats for my characters. Probably to my detriment, yes, but having to tune each character's SPD is a bitch because of Relic RNG, so it's not personally worth it for me.
relic rng is a pain indeed :')
yeah, imagine you have work, but the small free time you have only wasted for relic farming
@@INTJ791 Eh, not so much time. It's more that Trailblaze Power is a finite resource, and using it to get the "perfect" Relics can only get you so far, especially when one's luck typically fluctuates.
As a Fu Xuan user, I do not want her to go faster since the matrix of prescience will run out faster
That also can be a reason to not go speed
Thanks, now I will be building no speed and using no speed buffs to maximize my chocolate chewing enjoyment.
NOOOOO lmao
(enjoy your chocolate haha
Here’s my guidelines. 121 spd to go twice on turn 2. 134 spd to go twice turn 1 and turn 4. 143 spd to go twice turn 1 and 3. 149 (or 150 spd, I forgot) to go twice every other turn. 161 spd for tingyun. And then I just don’t like to chase spd, becuz eventually everyone will reach a point where the content is just too easy and you’ll rather want to do more dmg than go more turns
I think you mean cycle, but yeah they are some nice breakpoints
What about E2 Bronya? I don't see a lot of people talking about it.
Bigger mouths after encouragement from Bronya.
So it's good, but can make speed tuning more complicated. Notbably, hyperspeed Bronya (Bronya Basic+ just ready for next skil just after DPS) is near impossible to archieve, because your DPS is such a faster eater that you can't get your Bronya hungry enough.
If you Have E2 bronya it gives a 30% Spd Buff which should be at 30 SPD at 100 SPD. Meaning If your Ally is at 100 Spd and Bronya is at 129 SPD they should take action before her
After DPS takes their action they zoom ahead the next turn, so they can end up going before Bronya. Some people tune DPS to abuse this and let DPS -> Bronya -> DPS happen without SPD boots
Does 129 SPD on QQ hit a certain breakpoint in number of turn?
I am not interested in 0 cycling MoC
I did some calculations assuming all attacks are enhanced and found that with 10% spd boost post 1st turn with -
99 SPD = 8 turns
111 SPD = 9 turns
123 SPD = 10 turns
135 SPD = 11 turns
Please correct me if i am wrong
It hits 2 actions first cycle so if you dont want it you dont have to go for it
@@guobacertified I see
But i wanna know about number of turns after i get after all enhanced attacks
I haven't activated her traces for spd boost.
What i did was solved
(10000/SPD) + (10000/1.1*SPD)*n = 750
For n = 7,8,9,10 number of turns.
Is this equation right?
so you're telling me if I have enough speed I get to be that mean person and eat other people's chocolate bars? alrighty then!
lmao youll eat the bars faster yea
Grandpa welt keeps giving our enemies chocolate and somehow it's working?!?!?
He gives them chocolate and makes their mouths smaller
Great video! The chocolate bar analogy made it much easier to understand the idea of Action Value and how Action Advance/Delay affects it
YAY! Glad it helped
Would you be interested in doing videos on each main dps in depth guides? Like this stat at 134 is very good for this character bc in each rotation this can happen or set you up for getting more energy.
Bc i honestly have a hard time with speed stats and i typically dislike csring about anything above i 120 speed as 121 seems to do very well on my Jing Yuan team.
Could you elaborate more? Ideally on my discord server as it’s hard to find UA-cam replies
all i took away from this video was that i need some chocolate in my right now
Yes.
Honestly, at first I didn't care about character's spd, but spd tuning is quite important to decide character's turn.
whether 121, 134, 146 or 160. i only make sure about a character's turn being exactly where it's supposed to be, not anything else.
But, that changed when my bronya was E2. I always bring bronya to Jingliu party. But there was a problem when my bronya cast a skill on Jingliu. The 30% spd buff from E2 changed my character order and this made me frustrated. So I decided to speed tune two characters besides Jingliu and Bronya (my Bronya is -1 spd already) to be very fast (spd 150+) to avoid changing the order.
Very helpful vid. You make the best guides and analysis!
Keep up the great work, Lord Guoba
Great, informative breakdown of speed! I'm not starting to tune my second team (since I have now beaten the story content and now shifting to endgame (MoC, Pure Fiction, etc) so understanding how that breakdown happens will help me be able to focus more on the stats that matter if speed isn't as needed as I thought before. Enjoying your content for the characters as well when it helps boil down the information that can be gained from buildsites that give me a base level information of BiS gear. But now that Sparkle has kinda shifted the game, what would be a good number to shoot for her? I'd think the 134 would be the ideal but could stack more crit damage if only needing 121.