You sort of pointed this out yourself, and it's hard to help what people submit, but I think the number of these which were WRs and/or on the submitters' own maps was a bit boring. I know people would want to show off achievements they're proud of, but it seems like more of a challenge to guess when the runs are more middle of the pack
This ^ I think the wirtual team should probably filter out some replays before presenting him with the more interesting ones imo but otherwise the concept is really fun
User-submitted content always has this problem. Adam Neely (bass player and UA-camr) used to have a feature where he'd critique user submissions, but the level kept going up and up to the point where there was hardly anything to critique.
I think to add to this, in chess guess the elo they guess a range “1500-1600”. Instead of guessing the exact position Wirtual could guess “Top 5” or “between 15th & 20th” might make chances of being right higher. The size of the range he could guess could also change based on number of players on the map. But yeah original suggestion is definitely right. More variety on runs, not just WRs and people driving their own maps.
I agree that the main thing is just getting more diversity in the submissions. Getting a middle of the pack or slower run would be fun to try to guess. I would also suggest finding a way to hide the names of the submissions until you lock in your guess and you have to commit once the name is revealed. Just in case it IS a div 1 player you would know.
If you ever do this again you should 100% have some form of a third party pick the replays for you, since most people are just gonna wanna show off their records or their maps on stream. If you have a third party select the replays not only do you get less of that but you'll also get more diverse times and ranks.
A few suggestions: 1. Make guesses based on ranges (WR; Top 5; Top 10%, 10-20%, 20-30%, 40-60%, 60-99.9%; worst record) 2. Diversity of vids to submit + include a weekly challenge map for everyone to play (and you can select a random replay to showcase) 3. Something at stake (e.g. play Anna in a blitz game; no pyramid talk for a week; make Buckley do a challenge) Either way, I'll still watch.
@ngwoo great thing about guess the ELO is that it is about your ranking in chess as a whole, not in an individual game. You can win a game in style and be absolute garbage.
What makes guess the elo with Gotham fun is that people inevitably make mistakes and he can roast them for it. I think it would be more entertaining to have some mediocre runs in there as well. It feels repetitive when every run is good and all one can point out is "mmh it's a good run"
This is a cool idea but the format needs improving. Two things I that are most jarring to me is 1st People send their WRs/best runs to get their best moments featured so every second run is top 10. 2nd: guessing the final rank is not that impressive or great, feels more like gambling then knowledge. Guessing the time lost to WR, as you did once is way more interesting and impressive as it shows knowledge and skill and will be way more pog if you get it exact/ very close.
Wirtual: He lost about 1 second to WR He actually lost over 3 seconds to WR Wirtual: "Pretty good guess" That gives me an idea that better than trying to guess the rank would be trying to guess how far from the WR the time is, Rank is too random.
I think that having no WRs would make this a lot more of a challenge, and that a better way of "scoring" isn't by how many places off you are but how much time separates the place you guessed and the place it actually is - for really hunted maps, a small time difference could be loads of places
Guessing the placing has so many variables. Really hard to tell if it's the best line your first time seeing a map, or how hunted the map is... being able to gauge their skill level is barely a factor. It'd be more interesting maybe to guess divisions for cup of the day based on their PB (which I think you've done, or something similar)
Time lost to WR looks more fun than actual placing and is not as dependant on number of players/where the map has been featured. But quite a fun concept, really enjoyed it!
When I had send in something: "I guess he's still pretty new to it ... and is blind and deaf ... and controls the game with a toaster with his feet ..." 😂
opening: Hey oyvind! Just watched your Guess The Rank video, and I really appreciate how you're always trying to keep things fresh! I noticed you mentioned it was inspired by Levy's Guess the Elo series, and I love that you're taking inspiration from him. middle-game: However, I wanted to share some thoughts as a fan of both your content and Levy's. What makes Guess the Elo so successful is Levy's specific energy and unique style, like when he yells "the idea is to sacrifice the ROOOOOOK!" It's a series that really thrives on his humor and content personality. But what I love about your channel is your calm, thoughtful analysis and storytelling style, like the way you break down Trackmania's WRs or dive deep into player histories and documentary's (if you think why he's not mentioning my TM driving skill, cause you are really awesome in it). It's your softer, more methodical approach that makes your content stand out! Your personality shines through in the way you present things, you’re not loud or flashy, and that’s exactly what we love about you. I think staying true to what makes you "you" will resonate more with your audience. It would be great to see you continue leaning into your own unique style, as that’s what sets you apart, your originality is what keeps us all coming back! Keep doing "your" thing - whether it's phrases like "we're on pace", "And now... we wait", "this is the line", "low here, early there, inside line..." or those chill moments of reflection, puling the wirtual in last seconds on the round, that’s the Wirtual we love! Your pyramid map was one the pristine maps i saw, your chess map with Anna was fun and great mixing of you two
Wirtual has tried this concept in a different format before, but it doesn't work in Trackmania. Chess is purely a matter of knowledge in a 1v1 setting. In Trackmania, you can grind a single track for hours and get a decent time, there is no universal "knowledge level" beside knowing a few tricks.
I disagree. You can grind how much you want, but you still need to understand and master game mechanics to get good. If you don't know how to speed drift for instance, you can grind all day and will never get a record on a fs map
It's more than a few tricks. Setting aside the silly stuff like bugslides, and the less silly stuff like speedslides, you can tell someone's familiarity with the game by how close they take corners (especially towards the end of a map), how optimal their tech turns are, and so on. Like, I consider myself pretty good at some styles of map, but I'm still consistently multiple seconds behind WR for very visible reasons.
I think it'd make more sense to try and guess how many seconds the run is away from world record than what place on the record board the run got. There are just too many variables in terms of who played the map and how many, etc..
11:40 After that lecture and checking the rank Wirt showed a WR - and admitted he is a fraud 😅 Turned out that in case of this specific map, these tips were totally wrong 😅
IDEA: Add in point values based on how far you are from the correct guess. If you know most of the runs could be in the near 300's, I would make the range wider but if you know it's in the top 10 then make it smaller. Wider: Guess is within: 100: 1 point 50: 5 points 20: 7 points 10: 10 points 3: 15 points Dead-on: 20 points Top 10: 8: 2 points 5: 5 points 3: 10 points 2: 15 points Dead-on: 20 points Or something like that, then at the end of the video you show your total points out of possible max points (based on how many you got right)
Another idea could be to take replays from the official campaign tracks as those are known and with a lot of players. Then maybe guessing for the medal or something like that :) BUT really enjoyed the video :)
Fun video. I prefered the replays where a random player was playing, mid of the pack. One or two WR contenders are nice, but having you analyze and guess on a random ass mid of the pack player is more fun.
I have seen lots of guess the rank for other games where there is someone else than the streamer doing pre-screening of the submissions which allows for more diversity and in those games also possible for the streamer to not know the name of the player. Great fun regardless!
Maybe you can ask for two replays: a WR (if they have one) and a non-WR on two different maps since viewer submissions are mostly WR and you can't avoid that people want to show their achievement. You can guess which map has the higher placement or WR. Maybe limit maps to same map style?
I see people trying to fix this. I think the problem is that players don't play the ranked game mode. So we can't just use the rank system. I love this content in games like overwatch, where you can guess if a player is gold level, for instance. We don't have a basis for what any random run is on a map. Maybe a solution for this would be to have the community rave on one map and then you randomly pick ghost to guess their rank
I think this would work great if you'd have the submissions screened by someone else, to not include WR's on your own maps or only really great runs. Would bring more variety. Also like the idea of guessing how much they lose compared to WR
I think there should be a minimum number of players for each map submitted to be featured, such as 5k players. With maps that have 20-30 players, or even 100-200, there isn't much fun in trying to figure out what the guess is going to be. I like the suggestion other people have made about including the WR run and the submitted player run and having to guess with that as a reference. It doesn't appeal as much when we don't always understand whether something the submitted player does (goes wide in a turn, high on a wall ride, etc.) is supposed to be good or bad, since it can be very map dependent.
as someone who loves to watch guess the elo the huge difference is the different tracks. maybe incorporate like 2-4 racers per track and try and rank them, since in guess the elo theres 1 'track'/board for levy to worry about. either way great video
Format change suggestion: guess the place, watch that guesses replay to see if it is correct, if not, try again. The more guesses you take, the more information you have to see where the submitted run looses time or stands in comparison.
I think this could be interesting if you pick a few maps during a stream and have people spend 10 minutes to play a new run and submit the replays. Because you pick, people cant have overcooked records. And because of the short time span, it will be a lot more middle of the pack runs. I do think the format is good
Add on from what many others have said - the maps should have a certain amount of players on it to even qualify for this. Whats the point guessing on a map played by 28 players, the creator of the map is obviously going to have the WR.
IMO, this would work best with TOTD. Take 30-45 minutes after TOTD ends, have people send in their best runs and judge it from there. You know that everyone has the same time on the map so it better showcases the individual skill and it gives you more insight on people's playstyle/skill.
I know this is largely made for people going "look at how close I got to WR/look at this cool WR I got" but I was really kinda hoping for more clips of gold medals, maybe even silvers, both for a greater difficulty than "oh it's probably in the top 1%, because all of these are ego replays" and just because it's kinda fun to watch people who are still learning the tricks of the game. Like that one time you (might've been Scrapie but I think it was you) casted a low div in CotD.
you should guess the percentile, not the exact position imo. from 1 to 100. if map has 8700 finishers, if you guess 1st %, you essentially give yourself 87 spots. if there are 200 finishers, you give yourself 2 spots. also, WR should be seperate guess for sure.
So this is a good idea for a series and if you do make a series out of this I would suggest making it so you don't know the name of the racer until after you decide what rank they are
I think you should have someone screen the submissions, so that you can filter out some of the runs. Gotham's content is really entertaining when there is a subversion of expectations, like a great-looking run that ends up low on the board (maybe because of a shortcut)
I get why it happened but because you could have guessed top 5% for basically every run the challenge isn’t there.. “Reviewing my Subscribers runs” might have been a better title
I think it would make it better to only guess campaign records as that’s what’s played by the common community and would allow you to really judge based on the map knowledge you have. Maybe do a ranked replay only guess the rank
The next time you do this you should make a "game" out of it. Create an HP bar for yourself that has 100 HP, and for every guess you lose the % you were off. For example if the player had a rank 20 run and you guess 30 and there were 100 total players on the map then you would lose 10% hp (30-20) / 100. The challenge is try to survive 10 guesses or something. Could also simplify it and just lose HP by total difference between guess and actual, but the mathy way normalizes it.
I think your mods should pre-select the tracks for you, and you should guess either quantiles (like "which 10-percentile are they in"), or more interestingly "how much behind WR is it". WRs and submissions of your own tracks should be disallowed. Because if it feels like people just want to get their replay in a highlight reel it's not really intersting. The one who was 60th was literally the most interesting thing because it wasn't a pixel perfect run with a crazy shortcut but an honest and well-driven attempt with room for improvement.
@WirtualTV If you want to improve the format, maybe get a second player in and then the player with the smaller difference to the actual rank of the replay wins. Harstem from SCII does this format very well. He invites like 8 people over a season of rank roulette and creates a small tournament. So 2 players play multiple maps and they gain points for each rank they were off, the player with less points after all the record have been watched wins and advances in the tournament. This also bangs with the youtube algorithm, since you get these overlapping viewers when you invite other content creators like Granadyy and Scrapie
This should really be normal people on normal maps. Guessing a 6 second map or a kacky map is just luck if you're not looking at WR. An editor should just use a random number generator on a random TOTD track, then you can try to get within 10% or so. Kind of lame to have people send in their own WRs on maps they created.
I know you compared this to Guess the Elo, but I just wanna say that I don't watch that series because it feels a bit too disrespectful pretty often. I think this video was completely fine in that aspect, so it was fun to watch
This isn’t a bad idea. I just think there’s too many factors to guess the rank accurately. Guess the ELO in chess works because you’re guessing a skill rating based on the individual. Factors like knowing if it’s TotD, a popular map, who the other top hunters of the track were, etc. I think it’s a bit unfair. Nonetheless, I like that you’re trying new video ideas
you sort of did it in the video but definitely keep guessing WR/time lossed to WR, if you really wanted too, you could even drive the map yourself to prove the pace you believed WR to be or something when you're wrong
A big downside of the current format, additional to the lack in diversity of submissions, are shortcuts. Essentially you could see the best run that's possible without cutting but you'd still be wrong since a shortcut would potentially reduce the times massively. So I guess it would be nice if you'd also get the chance to explore the map for a few tries and compare to your own baseline. So basically give yourself e.g. 3 tries on the map, afterwards watch the run and then try to guess.
I liked this but i think it could be better. I think you should do a discovery run on each map, then guess how for from world record the runs you watch are.
Get one of your editors or friends to pick things at random. Whilst it's nice for your viewers to get in the video, too many obvious WRs here as that's what people like to do, show off WR's. If you're going to pick a top player make sure it's a highly contested map. In fact all the maps should be 10k+ players. I mean lets suggest we chose Micka/Teuflum on an ice map, pick it on say one of Flink's competition maps and make it the challenge to get it exactly. I think they should also choose some of your maps like Midouri/Pyramidouri but choose something which seems difficult to guess.
In chess you need to guess a player performance against the familiar baseline Here our boi need to also guess how good was a WR. With 2 variables it's hard to do so accurately. I like the idea, but the implementation needs refining.
Make it weekly, and put a set of maps you think would be interesting in each description. Then accept submissions on those maps and pick randomly. Maybe require at least two maps to prevent ego grinding one map?
So, to improve the "Guess the rank": Guessing perfection is boring. Stop WR from having a 50% winrate. Put in some terrible runs, like 1k finish, or 100k finishes. Make Wirtual try to figure out wat rank a bad run is.
I think it would be more fun n make more sense to guess the players worldwide rank. So maybe watch 3v3's and guess their 3v3 rank, or in a cotd, etc.. cus not everyone plays every map but almost everyone participates in these so it's more consistent and actually mimics the gothamchess elo guessing.
definitely would be better if some lower div people put their times in this because as fun as it is to watch people who are cracked at the maps they play it does get a bit boring and repetitive
You should: Have someone else vet the runs so it isnt all wr's Get a set rule for scoring like be within 20% of the guess, i.e. if a run is 5th 4-6 would be correct, if a run is 2nd, only 2nd is correct, if its 100th, 80-120 is correct. Gift a sub to anyone baiting you Obscure the nicknames so you cant 'cheat' by knowing the player
nice video maybe someone could screen the clips before, because now it was a lot of people just flexing with their wr it would be more entertaining for both sides, if they are more like middle of the field
You sort of pointed this out yourself, and it's hard to help what people submit, but I think the number of these which were WRs and/or on the submitters' own maps was a bit boring. I know people would want to show off achievements they're proud of, but it seems like more of a challenge to guess when the runs are more middle of the pack
totally true i was like " yeah they all good a the game were is the random subissions ! " D:
This ^ I think the wirtual team should probably filter out some replays before presenting him with the more interesting ones imo but otherwise the concept is really fun
User-submitted content always has this problem. Adam Neely (bass player and UA-camr) used to have a feature where he'd critique user submissions, but the level kept going up and up to the point where there was hardly anything to critique.
@@MarsoticsYes, he has editors to help with this. They need to filter it and create better content
I think to add to this, in chess guess the elo they guess a range “1500-1600”. Instead of guessing the exact position Wirtual could guess “Top 5” or “between 15th & 20th” might make chances of being right higher. The size of the range he could guess could also change based on number of players on the map. But yeah original suggestion is definitely right. More variety on runs, not just WRs and people driving their own maps.
I think it would be more interesting to guess how much time is lost to wr, the actual placing feels irrelevant
I think both are fun, but its true, it adds a lot.
I agree this is my thought as well
Oh, that sounds indeed like an interesting idea.
yes, I think that would improve this format.
I agree that the main thing is just getting more diversity in the submissions. Getting a middle of the pack or slower run would be fun to try to guess. I would also suggest finding a way to hide the names of the submissions until you lock in your guess and you have to commit once the name is revealed. Just in case it IS a div 1 player you would know.
If you ever do this again you should 100% have some form of a third party pick the replays for you, since most people are just gonna wanna show off their records or their maps on stream. If you have a third party select the replays not only do you get less of that but you'll also get more diverse times and ranks.
This is the best way. Having people submit their own times is silly
A few suggestions:
1. Make guesses based on ranges (WR; Top 5; Top 10%, 10-20%, 20-30%, 40-60%, 60-99.9%; worst record)
2. Diversity of vids to submit + include a weekly challenge map for everyone to play (and you can select a random replay to showcase)
3. Something at stake (e.g. play Anna in a blitz game; no pyramid talk for a week; make Buckley do a challenge)
Either way, I'll still watch.
Oh also just show a random run on Pyramidori for the heck of it.
“Either way I’ll still watch” bahahahaha me
Kinda pointless if everyone sends in their most cooked records.
true
Yeah part of the fun of Guess The ELO are the games that start out okay and then both players just devolve into absolute disaster
@@ngwoo Best part is when he guess the elo in the opening then go NAH these guys can't be 1500 they play like 400's.
Sending in a best time isn't terrible. Sending in your WR run on your own map feels pretty silly.
@ngwoo great thing about guess the ELO is that it is about your ranking in chess as a whole, not in an individual game. You can win a game in style and be absolute garbage.
The green timer was vital in this video!
I liked the concept of guessing COTD div more
What makes guess the elo with Gotham fun is that people inevitably make mistakes and he can roast them for it. I think it would be more entertaining to have some mediocre runs in there as well. It feels repetitive when every run is good and all one can point out is "mmh it's a good run"
This is a cool idea but the format needs improving. Two things I that are most jarring to me is 1st People send their WRs/best runs to get their best moments featured so every second run is top 10. 2nd: guessing the final rank is not that impressive or great, feels more like gambling then knowledge. Guessing the time lost to WR, as you did once is way more interesting and impressive as it shows knowledge and skill and will be way more pog if you get it exact/ very close.
That last map was so funny, I love when a creator embraces shortcuts other people find on their own maps
original title: guess the rank, but in trackmania while sliding in mayonnaise
Guess how much mayonnaise it would take to cover the track
Wirtual: He lost about 1 second to WR
He actually lost over 3 seconds to WR
Wirtual: "Pretty good guess"
That gives me an idea that better than trying to guess the rank would be trying to guess how far from the WR the time is, Rank is too random.
the ultimate chad move for this would be to submit a record which beats one of wirtuals own wrs
I think that having no WRs would make this a lot more of a challenge, and that a better way of "scoring" isn't by how many places off you are but how much time separates the place you guessed and the place it actually is - for really hunted maps, a small time difference could be loads of places
Guessing the placing has so many variables. Really hard to tell if it's the best line your first time seeing a map, or how hunted the map is... being able to gauge their skill level is barely a factor. It'd be more interesting maybe to guess divisions for cup of the day based on their PB (which I think you've done, or something similar)
Time lost to WR looks more fun than actual placing and is not as dependant on number of players/where the map has been featured. But quite a fun concept, really enjoyed it!
you can change the format to WR or not WR, and if you wrong guess not WR, you have to hunt the map to get a WR and make your guess right post factum
When I had send in something: "I guess he's still pretty new to it ... and is blind and deaf ... and controls the game with a toaster with his feet ..." 😂
While being electrocuted
@@shadowlord0162 Probably, as bad, as I am. 😅
I misread toaster on feet and i thought "who wants a foot toast?" 😅
Who wouldnt ??@@hanifarroisimukhlis5989
my inmediate idea is having it be TOTD and guessing their div based on pb instead of specific ranking. fun idea tho
also no brainer to make runs anonymous, surprised it wasnt done here tbh
I think wirt already did guess the div.
He has done this exact idea before.
great minds think alike then
I literally feel like you are the gotham chess of trackmania with explaining/teaching and how skilled you are
opening:
Hey oyvind! Just watched your Guess The Rank video, and I really appreciate how you're always trying to keep things fresh! I noticed you mentioned it was inspired by Levy's Guess the Elo series, and I love that you're taking inspiration from him.
middle-game:
However, I wanted to share some thoughts as a fan of both your content and Levy's. What makes Guess the Elo so successful is Levy's specific energy and unique style, like when he yells "the idea is to sacrifice the ROOOOOOK!" It's a series that really thrives on his humor and content personality. But what I love about your channel is your calm, thoughtful analysis and storytelling style, like the way you break down Trackmania's WRs or dive deep into player histories and documentary's (if you think why he's not mentioning my TM driving skill, cause you are really awesome in it). It's your softer, more methodical approach that makes your content stand out! Your personality shines through in the way you present things, you’re not loud or flashy, and that’s exactly what we love about you.
I think staying true to what makes you "you" will resonate more with your audience. It would be great to see you continue leaning into your own unique style, as that’s what sets you apart, your originality is what keeps us all coming back! Keep doing "your" thing - whether it's phrases like "we're on pace", "And now... we wait", "this is the line", "low here, early there, inside line..." or those chill moments of reflection, puling the wirtual in last seconds on the round, that’s the Wirtual we love!
Your pyramid map was one the pristine maps i saw, your chess map with Anna was fun and great mixing of you two
Wirtual has tried this concept in a different format before, but it doesn't work in Trackmania. Chess is purely a matter of knowledge in a 1v1 setting. In Trackmania, you can grind a single track for hours and get a decent time, there is no universal "knowledge level" beside knowing a few tricks.
I disagree. You can grind how much you want, but you still need to understand and master game mechanics to get good. If you don't know how to speed drift for instance, you can grind all day and will never get a record on a fs map
It's more than a few tricks. Setting aside the silly stuff like bugslides, and the less silly stuff like speedslides, you can tell someone's familiarity with the game by how close they take corners (especially towards the end of a map), how optimal their tech turns are, and so on. Like, I consider myself pretty good at some styles of map, but I'm still consistently multiple seconds behind WR for very visible reasons.
@ 19:53
Bill: Damn kids! You don't shortcut my map! I shortcut my map!
Everyone: you show em bill 👍
I think it'd make more sense to try and guess how many seconds the run is away from world record than what place on the record board the run got. There are just too many variables in terms of who played the map and how many, etc..
Can we just appreciate the hard work green timer put in for this vid? Huge props.
Wow, what a return to form. I remember when you would guess people's COTD division. Loved those videos.
5:29 Voice krack
11:40 After that lecture and checking the rank Wirt showed a WR - and admitted he is a fraud 😅 Turned out that in case of this specific map, these tips were totally wrong 😅
IDEA: Add in point values based on how far you are from the correct guess.
If you know most of the runs could be in the near 300's, I would make the range wider but if you know it's in the top 10 then make it smaller.
Wider:
Guess is within:
100: 1 point
50: 5 points
20: 7 points
10: 10 points
3: 15 points
Dead-on: 20 points
Top 10:
8: 2 points
5: 5 points
3: 10 points
2: 15 points
Dead-on: 20 points
Or something like that, then at the end of the video you show your total points out of possible max points (based on how many you got right)
Another idea could be to take replays from the official campaign tracks as those are known and with a lot of players.
Then maybe guessing for the medal or something like that :)
BUT really enjoyed the video :)
Fun video. I prefered the replays where a random player was playing, mid of the pack. One or two WR contenders are nice, but having you analyze and guess on a random ass mid of the pack player is more fun.
I have seen lots of guess the rank for other games where there is someone else than the streamer doing pre-screening of the submissions which allows for more diversity and in those games also possible for the streamer to not know the name of the player.
Great fun regardless!
Maybe you can ask for two replays: a WR (if they have one) and a non-WR on two different maps since viewer submissions are mostly WR and you can't avoid that people want to show their achievement.
You can guess which map has the higher placement or WR. Maybe limit maps to same map style?
We need to see this again! Loved these guessing videos
I see people trying to fix this. I think the problem is that players don't play the ranked game mode. So we can't just use the rank system. I love this content in games like overwatch, where you can guess if a player is gold level, for instance. We don't have a basis for what any random run is on a map. Maybe a solution for this would be to have the community rave on one map and then you randomly pick ghost to guess their rank
I think this would work great if you'd have the submissions screened by someone else, to not include WR's on your own maps or only really great runs. Would bring more variety. Also like the idea of guessing how much they lose compared to WR
I think there should be a minimum number of players for each map submitted to be featured, such as 5k players. With maps that have 20-30 players, or even 100-200, there isn't much fun in trying to figure out what the guess is going to be. I like the suggestion other people have made about including the WR run and the submitted player run and having to guess with that as a reference. It doesn't appeal as much when we don't always understand whether something the submitted player does (goes wide in a turn, high on a wall ride, etc.) is supposed to be good or bad, since it can be very map dependent.
Please More of this
0:05 - Hi chat! 👋
20:13 - Bye chat! 👋
as someone who loves to watch guess the elo the huge difference is the different tracks. maybe incorporate like 2-4 racers per track and try and rank them, since in guess the elo theres 1 'track'/board for levy to worry about. either way great video
or have people play specific tracks you're familiar with
Format change suggestion: guess the place, watch that guesses replay to see if it is correct, if not, try again.
The more guesses you take, the more information you have to see where the submitted run looses time or stands in comparison.
It would be fun to try and rank a random person on a campaign map instead of WR or top 100
Super fun idea! Hope the formula gets polished
"Boxplot - Human Again" is a great outro song I have to say! :)
I think this could be interesting if you pick a few maps during a stream and have people spend 10 minutes to play a new run and submit the replays.
Because you pick, people cant have overcooked records. And because of the short time span, it will be a lot more middle of the pack runs.
I do think the format is good
the media offline outro goes hard 🔥
Add on from what many others have said - the maps should have a certain amount of players on it to even qualify for this.
Whats the point guessing on a map played by 28 players, the creator of the map is obviously going to have the WR.
suggestion: guess second at best, so if it's WR you can boot up the map and get WR to put them in second and make your guess retroactively right
Maybe make a list of maps for your viewers to hunt for a week or two, and at the end try to guess their records on them
We need a Link documentary, there are so many good Link players
IMO, this would work best with TOTD. Take 30-45 minutes after TOTD ends, have people send in their best runs and judge it from there. You know that everyone has the same time on the map so it better showcases the individual skill and it gives you more insight on people's playstyle/skill.
I know this is largely made for people going "look at how close I got to WR/look at this cool WR I got" but I was really kinda hoping for more clips of gold medals, maybe even silvers, both for a greater difficulty than "oh it's probably in the top 1%, because all of these are ego replays" and just because it's kinda fun to watch people who are still learning the tricks of the game. Like that one time you (might've been Scrapie but I think it was you) casted a low div in CotD.
For a second I thought I had Wirtual on a different tab when I saw Levi
you should guess the percentile, not the exact position imo. from 1 to 100. if map has 8700 finishers, if you guess 1st %, you essentially give yourself 87 spots. if there are 200 finishers, you give yourself 2 spots. also, WR should be seperate guess for sure.
I think it would also be more fun if you compete against chat, so you would get the average vote from chat and see who is closer
So this is a good idea for a series and if you do make a series out of this I would suggest making it so you don't know the name of the racer until after you decide what rank they are
I really like the idea of this video. Maybe to optimize is for trackmania. Suggest a couple maps for viewers to submit their runs too.
I think you should have someone screen the submissions, so that you can filter out some of the runs. Gotham's content is really entertaining when there is a subversion of expectations, like a great-looking run that ends up low on the board (maybe because of a shortcut)
I get why it happened but because you could have guessed top 5% for basically every run the challenge isn’t there.. “Reviewing my Subscribers runs” might have been a better title
I think it would make it better to only guess campaign records as that’s what’s played by the common community and would allow you to really judge based on the map knowledge you have. Maybe do a ranked replay only guess the rank
Keep doing this, very good idea
The next time you do this you should make a "game" out of it. Create an HP bar for yourself that has 100 HP, and for every guess you lose the % you were off. For example if the player had a rank 20 run and you guess 30 and there were 100 total players on the map then you would lose 10% hp (30-20) / 100. The challenge is try to survive 10 guesses or something. Could also simplify it and just lose HP by total difference between guess and actual, but the mathy way normalizes it.
Are there maps where the shortcuts are intended but not obvious I'd love to play a campaign like that
I think your mods should pre-select the tracks for you, and you should guess either quantiles (like "which 10-percentile are they in"), or more interestingly "how much behind WR is it". WRs and submissions of your own tracks should be disallowed. Because if it feels like people just want to get their replay in a highlight reel it's not really intersting. The one who was 60th was literally the most interesting thing because it wasn't a pixel perfect run with a crazy shortcut but an honest and well-driven attempt with room for improvement.
media offline outro goes crazy
@WirtualTV If you want to improve the format, maybe get a second player in and then the player with the smaller difference to the actual rank of the replay wins.
Harstem from SCII does this format very well. He invites like 8 people over a season of rank roulette and creates a small tournament. So 2 players play multiple maps and they gain points for each rank they were off, the player with less points after all the record have been watched wins and advances in the tournament.
This also bangs with the youtube algorithm, since you get these overlapping viewers when you invite other content creators like Granadyy and Scrapie
This should really be normal people on normal maps. Guessing a 6 second map or a kacky map is just luck if you're not looking at WR. An editor should just use a random number generator on a random TOTD track, then you can try to get within 10% or so. Kind of lame to have people send in their own WRs on maps they created.
I know you compared this to Guess the Elo, but I just wanna say that I don't watch that series because it feels a bit too disrespectful pretty often. I think this video was completely fine in that aspect, so it was fun to watch
This isn’t a bad idea. I just think there’s too many factors to guess the rank accurately. Guess the ELO in chess works because you’re guessing a skill rating based on the individual. Factors like knowing if it’s TotD, a popular map, who the other top hunters of the track were, etc. I think it’s a bit unfair.
Nonetheless, I like that you’re trying new video ideas
6:03pov the cheese cuts the track
you sort of did it in the video but definitely keep guessing WR/time lossed to WR, if you really wanted too, you could even drive the map yourself to prove the pace you believed WR to be or something when you're wrong
A big downside of the current format, additional to the lack in diversity of submissions, are shortcuts. Essentially you could see the best run that's possible without cutting but you'd still be wrong since a shortcut would potentially reduce the times massively.
So I guess it would be nice if you'd also get the chance to explore the map for a few tries and compare to your own baseline. So basically give yourself e.g. 3 tries on the map, afterwards watch the run and then try to guess.
Someone else said this too but if you do this again I think you should guess time difference to WR instead of placement
surprised nobody seems to be suggesting have the mods select which runs get shown so there's more of a range of runs
Why do i feel like i have watched this before, did i watch this stream live
May i suggest simply making your editors/mods pick the runs, that way they pick more bad/slow/middle of the pack type of runs so its more interesting
I liked this but i think it could be better. I think you should do a discovery run on each map, then guess how for from world record the runs you watch are.
Get one of your editors or friends to pick things at random. Whilst it's nice for your viewers to get in the video, too many obvious WRs here as that's what people like to do, show off WR's.
If you're going to pick a top player make sure it's a highly contested map. In fact all the maps should be 10k+ players.
I mean lets suggest we chose Micka/Teuflum on an ice map, pick it on say one of Flink's competition maps and make it the challenge to get it exactly. I think they should also choose some of your maps like Midouri/Pyramidouri but choose something which seems difficult to guess.
In chess you need to guess a player performance against the familiar baseline
Here our boi need to also guess how good was a WR. With 2 variables it's hard to do so accurately.
I like the idea, but the implementation needs refining.
Make it weekly, and put a set of maps you think would be interesting in each description. Then accept submissions on those maps and pick randomly. Maybe require at least two maps to prevent ego grinding one map?
i've never played trackmania. i'm a sim drifter. i recall TM being played with a wheel in a vid somewhere... is it competitive?
I unironically played league against SkibidiRizz or something that sounded a hell of a lot like it a few days ago in LOL...
So, to improve the "Guess the rank": Guessing perfection is boring. Stop WR from having a 50% winrate. Put in some terrible runs, like 1k finish, or 100k finishes. Make Wirtual try to figure out wat rank a bad run is.
maybe have some mods just submit random people's runs if that's possible its like the niche of niche for people to submit their own runs
I think it would be more fun n make more sense to guess the players worldwide rank.
So maybe watch 3v3's and guess their 3v3 rank, or in a cotd, etc.. cus not everyone plays every map but almost everyone participates in these so it's more consistent and actually mimics the gothamchess elo guessing.
Or Nadeo campaign actually, cus that has the most players
15:40 On 00f's turn i guessed 60 something, lo and behold: 60th. I have 1.5 hours in trackmania and clearly am a guessing god. (I got 2 correct. lol)
definitely would be better if some lower div people put their times in this because as fun as it is to watch people who are cracked at the maps they play it does get a bit boring and repetitive
You've done this in the past with cotd, i think that was much better
Maybe have your editors pick the replays so we can get a good diversity among things shown
You should:
Have someone else vet the runs so it isnt all wr's
Get a set rule for scoring like be within 20% of the guess, i.e. if a run is 5th 4-6 would be correct, if a run is 2nd, only 2nd is correct, if its 100th, 80-120 is correct.
Gift a sub to anyone baiting you
Obscure the nicknames so you cant 'cheat' by knowing the player
nice video
maybe someone could screen the clips before, because now it was a lot of people just flexing with their wr
it would be more entertaining for both sides, if they are more like middle of the field
this could also be interesting with the campaign maps jussayin
Wait... I remember that run on the olympics map. You showed that before.
Click for sleep podcast here we gooo
LITHUANIA MENTIONED RAHHH🦅
Shortcutting own map is really funny
Love this idea!!!
you should guess also what division they usually play
Only allowing COTD runs and having to guess the division could be fun.