I think an issue with Nilou that is often overlooked in my opinion is how Nilou fits in the society of Sumeru before we arrive. She is the representation of resistance against oppression, oppression against the akademiya's disdain for art (at least to me). For how "Normal" the narrative makes her out to be she's oddly involved in the fight against the Akademiya's ruling (basically against government itself). This sets up expectations in the audience now wanting to see how Nilou fought AND struggled to develop and protect her culture and her love for art and dancing. But what we got is just a nothing burger ? Like this is genuinely the most empty story quest we've ever gotten for how interesting her concept as a character is. As an artist myself i first felt drawn to Nilou somewhat relating to her struggles against higher authority to express her art but somehow Hoyoverse managed to dumb down and mischaracterise their own character for no reason ? I'm genuinely so mad and disappointed with her character and I'm still am to this day. What a waste and shame
This! This is what I'm talking about when I tell others why I don't like Nilou. I liked her in the Archon Quest precisely because it was interesting to have a character who loved the arts in a society that was so focused on more STEM fields. In the AQ, she plays that role well. But afterwards, that part of Nilou is only touched on in her Story Quest and it was usurped by the relationship conflict between NPCs. Every other time she's appeared, that is never brought up again. Worse is that everyone we see in Sumeru has just...Accepted her and the theater. We're told that this Arts vs Akademiya conflict exists, but it's only brought up in the AQ and her SQ. With Nahida in control now, it'll likely never be brought up again. So one thing that could've made Nilou endearing (her using her talents to protect the theater and festivities in Sumeru) is no longer a problem. What irritates me is the fact that this could've add some interesting conflict between Nilou and the Akademiya playable characters. It would've been so interesting if the more "by the books" or strict Akademiya characters (ie. Alhaithem, Cyno, Tignari, or Faruzan) actually shared the beliefs of the "antagonists" in Nilou's story. To add to this, what if we actually see how much Nilou isn't comfortable with them or how she doesn't understand them and their lifestyles, either. Then what we'd get are Nilou and an Akademiya character interacting and learning from one another, finding a middle ground and understanding of their values and how they can improve Sumeru together. Instead what we get is...Everyone already sees the value in Nilou's dancing and they support her all the way. And in Nilou's voice line about Cyno she says she doesn't like talking to people at the Akademiya, but from what we actually see *in the game itself* she has ZERO problems doing just that....Okay.
I'd say her story quest was good at establishing her personality, which seems to be what most characters' first story quest is meant to do, while the second story quest is the one that shows more about the character's backstory and past.
I feel like in terms of artists, they cooked with Kaveh more than they did with Nilou. And Kaveh wasn't even trying to oppress the system, he's just a struggling architect. Yet they gave his art so much more meaning, and as a character he's pretty tragic. He's "normal", he doesn't have a super complicated story or 500 year old trauma (side-eyeing at least 3 characters right now). He's just a simple guy with simple human problems. He's destroying himself for the sake of his art, for the sake of pleasing people, he's trying to drown his problems and avoid them altogether. He had more character development in the hangout, archon, story, AND event quests combined than Nilou ever did in all of her appearances. They both come from the artistic background, yet they were given completely different treatement I unfortunately relate to Kaveh more solely because of this, as an artist myself. I do appreciate Nilou's struggle to show that her and her people's art is important, but the way it was shown just isn't impactful enough. It felt... meh? It did absolutely nothing. Her story quest was absolutely lackluster, even though thematically it was supposedly about standing up against authority
An easy storyline would have been Nilou being an Akademia student that quit to be the dancer she is now. Trading the stability of school that transitions to a job for the unpredictable nature of show business gives you lots of options to write about. And it could be a metaphor for Asian parents insisting on their kids to be a doctor, lawyer or programmer & the child choosing something completely different from what their parents planned out for them.
It would make more sense if Nilou was a reincarnation of the Goddess of Flower, hell, even her outfit is based of her and the Subzeruz Festival was made by goddess to honor Rukkadevata's birthday. Even a event made another outfit based of the Purple Padhisaras flowers, a unique created by Goddess of Flower, the devs aren't subtle about it.
ok lore bomb on nilou time. so sumeru has references all over for the king Solomon mythology. one story where Solomon is not on the thrown a demon with three heads sits on his thrown pretending to be king Solomon. if you look at nilou's original outfit she is wearing a head dress with 3 sets of horns (three demon heads) and her vison has a chain on it making a tail behind her. and she is pretending to be the goddess of flowers in her in her performance. her being stuck in the samsara (means resurrection in Buddhism). shes a fake godddess of flowers stuck in a dream (fake) reality that the sages are using to harvest them.
This would be such a good storyline to match the lore of the Padhisaras too because the ones we see are essentially less radiant reincarnations made by the Dendro archon. Nilou being a less powerful, but spiritual reincarnation, would also explain why she has a signature bloom archetype. I feel like they missed out.
I wish she met Sorush earlier instead of this year's Sabzeruz Festival. Like that World Quest where we met the Pari and stuff? She would've slotted perfectly there and be the center stage next to Jeht and Jebrael as well. Like, her reasons for going to the Great Red Sands is because she's receiving dreams and that something (aka her connection to Nabu Malikata) is compelling her to go.
To add to a writing tip about writing flaws (applicable to even "normal" characters) is that these flaws need to actually cause problems for the character, whether internally or externally. One issue with Nilou is that she technically does have flaws we're told of (like moments of self-doubt, implying lack of confidence) BUT these so called "flaws" do nothing to challenge her or improve her development. Refer back to her role in 4.8/Simulanka (correct me if I'm wrong as it has been a few months)- I remember that Nilou struggled at first to figure out her role and how save the origami forest. However, after the Travleer helps with the animals and they have some talk about how the world works/its history- she figures out what she can do and she's able to revive the forest with her own power. ...What in that conflict did Nilou learn about herself? Hell, what did the player learn about her that we don't already know? How did this even at all move Nilou forward as a character? All it did was rehash the same points about her that we already know. It was the same thing with her Story Quest and it was the same thing in Simulanka. What Nilou has (and other Genshin characters have) are "diet flaws" as I like to call them- blemishes to a character that are just enough to cause some problems and make them relatable, but not enough to encourage growth or detrimental conflict. The result is not a character with a balanced personality, but a trait/trope most audiences would find endearing. For example- writing a shy character. Shyness can be written where the inability to speak to or connect with others causes actual detriment to the character's ability to function and it shows in how they have a difficult time with communication and relationships. OR it can be written how it usually is in fiction (especially anime)- as an endearing and cute trait where they have trouble AT FIRST, but all it takes is a more social person or group of friends to bring them out of their shell. They still have moments of shyness, but now it is just one of the things that makes them cute! One is a flaw and the other one is meant to look endearing. Of course, I know a lot of people don't need a character to have well written flaws to enjoy them. Hell, if other fans find something endearing in Nilou, than that's great. But personally, whenever I see her I just see how much Hoyo wasted her potential (her role in the art VS STEM debate in Sumeru) to just go down the easy route of another "nice" character who is loved by everyone for no other reason than they just are that nice. Whatever moments of self-doubt she has is instantly fixed because she's either just that good OR everyone else will have her back. She's not a character who is allowed to be anything else but forever nice and loved.
That's the thing. I feel like Nilou is such an empty character with such an interesting potential It wasn't shown why she's so nice to everyone, it wasn't shown how she earned so much love, it wasn't shown how her flaws affect her on a deeper, human level, and frankly she just doesn't really feel like a person? She feels like a trope, like one very heavily exaggerated trait. You can be nice and loved and STILL be a flawed character, make mistakes, make bad decisions, have something that overall at least in some shape or form interferes with your daily life, something that you can learn from. You can't just be "forever nice", that's very unrealistic. Sure, it's a fantasy game so it doesn't have to be realistic, but it's just... boring? If being nice is the character's only prominent trait, then what's the fun? Where's the sauce? The flavor? You can make a nice character and STILL give them an interesting personality and conflict, whether it's an inner or an outer one Nilou just doesn't have enough character development. She's at a standstill and hasn't really moved or changed as a person, nor was it shown that she's not JUST about being nice. All I personally remember her for is "She's nice and she dances". Those are her main traits. Yes, she had an important role to play in the opposition to the Akademiya, and her story quest was also about that. But it just didn't feel impactful or important enough. Her story quest felt more like it was about the NPCs rather than her. She was just a mediator there. It's unfortunate
I really agree that giving them struggles and flaws is important, not only for this sort of characters but every single playable character including the special ones. I think specifically in Genshin, I have no issues with normal-esque characters as long as they don't live in a vacuum and they interact strongly onscreen with at least a portion of the cast. Someone like Thoma or Yoimiya get along with everyone in a fun way, so I don't mind if they're a bit plain. Poor Layla is the opposite: we like her because she's extremely relatable (except in her DID) but she's inside her own bubble in the Sumeru cast, and while it makes sense because everyone but Collei is older, that makes me sad since we get stuff like not getting invited to the Sabzerus plans. Take Kaveh as an example of well-written normal character with good socialization, to keep it to the Sumeru area. Just an architect, got a vision in a depressing but not life-threatening situation. He's had struggles in both his professional and personal life, strongly hinted he suffers from depression. Even his positive, idealistic traits are a bit twisted to the point his naive kindness/empathy is one of his biggest character flaws. Besides that, the main reason I adore Kaveh is his relationships with others. His situationship with Alhaitham, his delightful interactions with Faruzan, his friendships with Tighnari and Cyno and Collei, even the toxic situation with Dori. Then compare to Nilou. She's more close to the theater NPCs. While she does interact with other Sumeru characters in events, they feel shallow and none of them is close friends with her. Even Candace, who's also a bit too perfect and underdeveloped as well, has Dehya and is a part of the gang. Nilou didn't truly befriend the Simulanka peeps either (not counting the squirrels), and I'm not sure her new relationship with Surush or Sethos will ever come back. Now if we go to Chiori as your main example, she has interacted with half of Fontaine at this point, and she has strong friendships with Chevreuse, Kirara, and Navia in particular. We SEE these friendships onscreen too, unlike the ones with Emilie which are all tell and no show. Even if most of her lore is locked behind her profile stories, her story quest is pretty nice: does touch upon her past and professional life, and shows the way she tackles upon conflicts and problems. Meanwhile, Nilou's SQ isn't even about her because it's NPC Impact and she's fixing a random friend's life. Which is wild because the quest WAS about the Akademiya's attitude against the arts! The same thing Nilou fans keep highlighting when they defend her writing, that she's so revolutionary for pursuing the arts! Also, if the antagonic guy had been Nilou's dad or grandpa or uncle instead and her own position as a dancer was on jeopardy, for instance, that change would've been huge to make her more likable. But instead she was more of a senpai/defender to this girl, and the focus was on the NPC as if the theater closing down was second in importance to Nilou at some points of the quest.
This video really captivated just why Nilou Isn't one of my "I want to get" characters. She has a lot of things going for her and I ADORE her design, But I don't feel the resonance or drive as a person to pull. I like getting characters I like plain and simple. So perhaps I just don't like the bundle of perfection she is. It's funny how imperfections can make people perfect in storytelling😂 It's like going against what it actually wants. I have that trouble when I'm trying to make characters but with your help in this video perhaps I could improve In summary, GREAT VID❤👍
My argument against your take on Nilou having no problems and an uncannily perfect life, is the Sumeru Archon quest. Literally the first archon quest in Sumeru shows that the Academia basically hates the arts, and outright tries to ban artistic expression. Nilou, as a performer, aka a person involved in the artistic world, is clearly facing a problem here, a significant one, considering her job is to perform. Is it a problem she solves? No, but she does contribute to it by the end of the archon quest.
Nilou suffers from the issue of Mihoyo trying to make most characters "hold hands and sing kumbaya" no one really out right hates each other outside of Scara and Raiden, Colei and that harbinger, Diluc and Kaeya. Characters are either stand offish or tryig to save face. My biggest example is the people of Inazuma and Raiden. Ayaka refuses to talk ill about raiden (aka call out all of her BS) after everything she has done, but in the same voice line says that "if the traveler was to engage in combat with raiden shes wouldn't refuse to stand by them" make it make sense. Why so stand offish? You clearly hold resentment.
Ayaka is from the Kamisato Clan, leading lady of the Yashiro Commission. She CANNOT under any circumstances be caught speaking ill about the Shogun. If you know about the Japanese and their society you'd know how absolutely taboo it is to show any strong negative emotions openly, even in 2024. Especially against someone higher than you in the hierarchy of power. Any disagreement can at most be alluded to, not openly spelt out. Also given that Inazuma is essentially feudal Edo Era Japan, being caught saying anything against the Shogun would be considered out right blasphemous, putting her and the entire commission in danger.
@idkatthispoint-s9s yet at the same time she's saying she will stand against her if the Traveler does which is worse than speaking out against her actions. The conversation is 1 on 1 with the traveler, and according to you its looked down apon to ill speak someone with a higher status but it's ok to say "yeah I will gladly betray my nation's monarch if you fight her" I will fight along side you. The voice line is inconsistent and contradicting, just like the rest of Inazuma's writing. "I ain't gonna talk shit about her but if hands are to be thrown I'm throwing too" ahhh voice line😭
Very minor correction, but Diluc and Kaeya aren't exactly what I'd call "hating each other". They've got history for sure, but they've also had multiple events that have tried to set up some form of reconciliation between the two, the two have been shown they can be civil with each other in spite of the history they have, and we know Kaeya is even still allowed to visit the Winery whenever he pleases with no real "get the fuck out, you're not welcome here" from Diluc. A fractured relationship on ice that's trying thaw? Sure. Complete and utter hatred? I'm not so sure about that one. I really argue that they fall into the standoffish corner more than hate. Also, mentioning Collei and Dottore as a hate thing but somehow leaving out Scara, who literally expressed disappointment that he only has one Dottore to put back into god's recycling bin is a crime- I know he's absolutely Ei's opp but being disappointed that you can't have multiple murder schemes against the likely hundreds if not thousands of clones made of one specific dude because that dude already nuked them is a whole other world of hatred. No one is Dottore's biggest hater outside of Scara for that. That's just something else entirely.
@@vivianameganviviana3486its been a while for me I took a big gap in genshin and completely forgot some of the world building between characters. So it's kinda mushy for me😭
There's also Diona, who outright dislikes a good chunk of Mondstad's cast because they're "drunkards", but was still mostly civil with Venti in the somewhat recent alchemy event, but i guess tolerating said drunkards is tecnically part of her job description and Venti was being nice to her. I like that she still showed some bitterness in there
( i wrote this b4 watching but now i do see your point hehe. still gonna put my ideas here bc i've already written too much) as a chiori kinnie/absolute lover (like you, as i can see), she is NOT normal. although she does try to live a normal life, trouble and adventure always follows her footsteps. she's hated by every single one of her masters (how can someone even dislike her???), the only "master" that didn't hate her was ogura mio. i say "master" because chi refused ogura's offer of working for her but still appreciated it. she got into trouble with the tenryou commission as a child. climbed the kamisato estate's walls and (most likely) became ayaka's 1st friend from 'outside'. has exceptional cooking/baking skills (dare i say, as good as xiangling's). has (probably) appeared on the steambird multiple times. is friends with practically every melusine (bc she's the only designer that makes melusine clothing). has very strong ties with most of the fontaine cast. helped 'make' ayaka's 2nd outfit. AND was almost shot on her story quest (if i remember correctly). all i've said does not make you think of a 'normal' character, does it? i wrote sm i forgot my point lmao. but uhm i would like to know what your thoughts on my whole ahh story, i do think it could be a very interesting convo between 2 chiori lovers! it's really hard to find someone who's as passionate as i am about her! :3 also kirara is very interesting too! from what i've understood, she got her 2nd tail and her vision in the same day :o (according to her story and 3.7 event) sorry, i'm a yapper when it comes to things i like! :,)
Nilou did have problems in her life. It was the Akademiya always opposing her. I'd say she represents the types of intelligence that often get overlooked because they're not considered "real" by the more "intellectual" parts of society. The Sages only valued logical intelligence, and considered the arts to be useless. If having high intelligence makes you a genius, then Nilou could be considered a genius in terms of emotional and artistic intelligence. She's the complete opposite of the sages, down to being open-minded, reasonable, and considerate. I guess they could have shown or at least said more about her past experiences with the Akademiya's opposition. And I'd say the reasom why she appears to be loved by everyone is because most of the interactions we saw her have were with people from the Grand Bazaar, which is basically where the more artistic people of Sumeru, the ones shunned by the Akademiya, gather together, so there's basically no reason for them to oppose each other, since they're united by their common points. The only ones we see hate Nilou are the ones from the Akademiya who value logic above all. I guess they could expand on this by showing Nilou interacting with other people from Sumeru City who are not from the Akademiya. At the same time, it's probably not very likely that she'll be disliked by a lot of people, since from what we saw the only hate towards her and the Theater was by the Sages and their followers, since even the students liked her performance.
i feel like a problem that nilou would struggle with would bebeing that perfect person, scared of being "impefect" Like she feels like she ehas to be the perfect person she is, nothing lower or else she thinks that people will think badly of her and the reason that no one knows this is bc she gaurds this secret from everyone and anyone- her close friends, collueges and family I know it not perfect but if you have any tips for improvong this id be happy to hear it
so what happened during the Archon quest doesn't count ? Everyone have struggles that true, but not everyone tired their butt out in pursuit of one dream. A lot of people change objectives along the way, especially if they are struggling. Nilou had a gift for dancing and a rather normal, almost "problemless" life. While that isn't a generality there are people like that. On the other hand Chiori had to stuggle against all odds and succed to become celebrity she is now. And again it does happened but it's not more common than talented people. I'd say it's even more uncommon. And i like both Nilou and Chiori
I'd argue that the Archon Quest is where Nilou's character is at her best because we actually see how much she cares about Nahida's birthday and the festival, and see her fight for it. The problem is everything else afterward- because Nilou doesn't have anything she can really work on or pursue, all her appearances and stories just continue to reinforce the same things about her. She's a static character. As the video says- it's OK that Nilou has a gift for dancing and is normal and has a life with little struggles. The problem is that it, from a writing perspective, it doesn't make for the most compelling or even relatable character. This can be solved if Hoyo were more willing to write quests that involved Nilou being in stiuations where she can show more sides to her beyond being nice, a dancer, and moments of self-doubt (like anger, jealousy, depression, annoyance, etc.) But they don't. If what I'm criticizing is why you and a lot of fans like her, then that's fine. But there is an actual reason others don't and this video is the kindest explanation why, in my opinion.
@@pinkraven7043 i see what you mean, and i'm not saying your are wrong. Nilou indeed doesn't change much in the way you may expect from a "character progression". I can understant that some people may find it boring but i think that hoyo wanted her to be as smooth as possible. Her life looks almost perfect, she's nice, is talented for dance, is a faithful believer of her archon. Nearly everyone love her. I can understand that some people would want more difficulties/negative side to her, but the way she is, especially after simulanka i believe that hoyo wanted to make her that overlly joyfull and positive character
@@hirods9889 If that's the direction they wanted for her, then more power to them. But, frankly, for me it means that there's nothing to look forward to when Nilou is in an event. No fun interactions, no development, no conflict, etc. I read a breakdown on how Nilou's lack of substance meant she has little to no chemistry with the other characters (Traveler included) and I share the same opinion. Of course, at the end of the day these are all just opinions about a video game. I just wish Genshin took more chances with their characters and what happened with Nilou is a constant reminder to me that they won't, especially if the fandom will just accept it.
@@pinkraven7043 I actually don't agree with that. Among all the interactions we had with her you never got any interest in her ? Of course that's totally subjective. You can't like every character. I won't call her a complex character, bc she's not. But that doesn't make her uninteresting, to me at least.
@@hirods9889 It’s fine to agree to disagree. To answer your question- the only time Nilou was interesting to me was in the Archon Quest. That interest died a slow and painful death once I realized and accepted that Hoyo was never going to do anything interesting with Nilou again. I want to emphasize that everyone looks for a different experience when indulging in any media. I play Genshin because I like most of the characters and I have fun with how much potential there is for character interactions and development. It’s why the 2.8 Summer Event, 3.5 Windblume, and parts of the Interdarshan Championship have been some of my favorite events in Genshin. Frankly- part of why I couldn’t hold my interest in Nilou is because all of her interactions are so…Meh. She’s just nice/polite to everyone and everyone else is nice back (at worst, they’re polite or tolerant of her). And if they’re not nice to her, they’re usually an antagonist. It’s so boring and it makes it hard for me to enjoy her or find her potential.
I really want an in depth video about Layla I love her so much yet i couldn’t find anyone who talks about her story and background because my eyes hurt from reading it in game with my small phone ໒꒰ྀི｡- ˕ -｡꒱ྀི১
I honestly thinks that she in the Archon quest is pretty good, her love for the Sabzeruz Festival causing the infinite loop of each day because she wants to continue the dance and be unbother by the academia, to do the thing she does best, dance. But I have no idea what her story quest was lol, it was the same level as Ayato's in my opinion
I think of characters like Nilou as "blessed" which works great if there is a "cursed" rival to contrast. The entire dynamic would be great if there was a character who despises Nilou but has to hold back that resentment because she is always so polite.
Nilou SQ is so much wasted potential to me. She's so mary sue OC type and...i cant sympathize with her. Thankfully her role in the AQ is kinda a saving grace.
you are definitely much more understandeable! love that :) also, I don't think relateable is the right word for what you mean. Chiori, as a successful business owner from abroad with an unsupporting family, is not really relateable after all. It's more that we can emphasize well with her dreams and ambitions than relate to her.
The real reason I liked Nilou's story quest was mostly because I resonated with the story they're telling but the highlight wasn't Nilou because Nilou herself is boring
It's kind of hard to follow your videos. I have to actually focus to keep up with what you're saying. So can you please slow down and speak a bit more clearly.
Layla is the most relatable and normal character in the entire game, Nilou just send her to the shadow realm and no one will ever realize she died that's how forgettable and good for nothing she is
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I think an issue with Nilou that is often overlooked in my opinion is how Nilou fits in the society of Sumeru before we arrive.
She is the representation of resistance against oppression, oppression against the akademiya's disdain for art (at least to me). For how "Normal" the narrative makes her out to be she's oddly involved in the fight against the Akademiya's ruling (basically against government itself). This sets up expectations in the audience now wanting to see how Nilou fought AND struggled to develop and protect her culture and her love for art and dancing.
But what we got is just a nothing burger ? Like this is genuinely the most empty story quest we've ever gotten for how interesting her concept as a character is.
As an artist myself i first felt drawn to Nilou somewhat relating to her struggles against higher authority to express her art but somehow Hoyoverse managed to dumb down and mischaracterise their own character for no reason ?
I'm genuinely so mad and disappointed with her character and I'm still am to this day. What a waste and shame
This! This is what I'm talking about when I tell others why I don't like Nilou. I liked her in the Archon Quest precisely because it was interesting to have a character who loved the arts in a society that was so focused on more STEM fields. In the AQ, she plays that role well.
But afterwards, that part of Nilou is only touched on in her Story Quest and it was usurped by the relationship conflict between NPCs. Every other time she's appeared, that is never brought up again.
Worse is that everyone we see in Sumeru has just...Accepted her and the theater. We're told that this Arts vs Akademiya conflict exists, but it's only brought up in the AQ and her SQ. With Nahida in control now, it'll likely never be brought up again. So one thing that could've made Nilou endearing (her using her talents to protect the theater and festivities in Sumeru) is no longer a problem.
What irritates me is the fact that this could've add some interesting conflict between Nilou and the Akademiya playable characters. It would've been so interesting if the more "by the books" or strict Akademiya characters (ie. Alhaithem, Cyno, Tignari, or Faruzan) actually shared the beliefs of the "antagonists" in Nilou's story. To add to this, what if we actually see how much Nilou isn't comfortable with them or how she doesn't understand them and their lifestyles, either. Then what we'd get are Nilou and an Akademiya character interacting and learning from one another, finding a middle ground and understanding of their values and how they can improve Sumeru together.
Instead what we get is...Everyone already sees the value in Nilou's dancing and they support her all the way. And in Nilou's voice line about Cyno she says she doesn't like talking to people at the Akademiya, but from what we actually see *in the game itself* she has ZERO problems doing just that....Okay.
I'd say her story quest was good at establishing her personality, which seems to be what most characters' first story quest is meant to do, while the second story quest is the one that shows more about the character's backstory and past.
I feel like in terms of artists, they cooked with Kaveh more than they did with Nilou. And Kaveh wasn't even trying to oppress the system, he's just a struggling architect. Yet they gave his art so much more meaning, and as a character he's pretty tragic. He's "normal", he doesn't have a super complicated story or 500 year old trauma (side-eyeing at least 3 characters right now). He's just a simple guy with simple human problems. He's destroying himself for the sake of his art, for the sake of pleasing people, he's trying to drown his problems and avoid them altogether. He had more character development in the hangout, archon, story, AND event quests combined than Nilou ever did in all of her appearances. They both come from the artistic background, yet they were given completely different treatement
I unfortunately relate to Kaveh more solely because of this, as an artist myself. I do appreciate Nilou's struggle to show that her and her people's art is important, but the way it was shown just isn't impactful enough. It felt... meh? It did absolutely nothing. Her story quest was absolutely lackluster, even though thematically it was supposedly about standing up against authority
An easy storyline would have been Nilou being an Akademia student that quit to be the dancer she is now. Trading the stability of school that transitions to a job for the unpredictable nature of show business gives you lots of options to write about. And it could be a metaphor for Asian parents insisting on their kids to be a doctor, lawyer or programmer & the child choosing something completely different from what their parents planned out for them.
It would make more sense if Nilou was a reincarnation of the Goddess of Flower, hell, even her outfit is based of her and the Subzeruz Festival was made by goddess to honor Rukkadevata's birthday. Even a event made another outfit based of the Purple Padhisaras flowers, a unique created by Goddess of Flower, the devs aren't subtle about it.
ok lore bomb on nilou time. so sumeru has references all over for the king Solomon mythology. one story where Solomon is not on the thrown a demon with three heads sits on his thrown pretending to be king Solomon. if you look at nilou's original outfit she is wearing a head dress with 3 sets of horns (three demon heads) and her vison has a chain on it making a tail behind her. and she is pretending to be the goddess of flowers in her in her performance. her being stuck in the samsara (means resurrection in Buddhism). shes a fake godddess of flowers stuck in a dream (fake) reality that the sages are using to harvest them.
This would be such a good storyline to match the lore of the Padhisaras too because the ones we see are essentially less radiant reincarnations made by the Dendro archon. Nilou being a less powerful, but spiritual reincarnation, would also explain why she has a signature bloom archetype. I feel like they missed out.
I wish she met Sorush earlier instead of this year's Sabzeruz Festival. Like that World Quest where we met the Pari and stuff? She would've slotted perfectly there and be the center stage next to Jeht and Jebrael as well. Like, her reasons for going to the Great Red Sands is because she's receiving dreams and that something (aka her connection to Nabu Malikata) is compelling her to go.
To add to a writing tip about writing flaws (applicable to even "normal" characters) is that these flaws need to actually cause problems for the character, whether internally or externally.
One issue with Nilou is that she technically does have flaws we're told of (like moments of self-doubt, implying lack of confidence) BUT these so called "flaws" do nothing to challenge her or improve her development. Refer back to her role in 4.8/Simulanka (correct me if I'm wrong as it has been a few months)- I remember that Nilou struggled at first to figure out her role and how save the origami forest. However, after the Travleer helps with the animals and they have some talk about how the world works/its history- she figures out what she can do and she's able to revive the forest with her own power.
...What in that conflict did Nilou learn about herself? Hell, what did the player learn about her that we don't already know? How did this even at all move Nilou forward as a character? All it did was rehash the same points about her that we already know. It was the same thing with her Story Quest and it was the same thing in Simulanka.
What Nilou has (and other Genshin characters have) are "diet flaws" as I like to call them- blemishes to a character that are just enough to cause some problems and make them relatable, but not enough to encourage growth or detrimental conflict. The result is not a character with a balanced personality, but a trait/trope most audiences would find endearing.
For example- writing a shy character. Shyness can be written where the inability to speak to or connect with others causes actual detriment to the character's ability to function and it shows in how they have a difficult time with communication and relationships. OR it can be written how it usually is in fiction (especially anime)- as an endearing and cute trait where they have trouble AT FIRST, but all it takes is a more social person or group of friends to bring them out of their shell. They still have moments of shyness, but now it is just one of the things that makes them cute!
One is a flaw and the other one is meant to look endearing.
Of course, I know a lot of people don't need a character to have well written flaws to enjoy them. Hell, if other fans find something endearing in Nilou, than that's great. But personally, whenever I see her I just see how much Hoyo wasted her potential (her role in the art VS STEM debate in Sumeru) to just go down the easy route of another "nice" character who is loved by everyone for no other reason than they just are that nice. Whatever moments of self-doubt she has is instantly fixed because she's either just that good OR everyone else will have her back.
She's not a character who is allowed to be anything else but forever nice and loved.
That's the thing. I feel like Nilou is such an empty character with such an interesting potential
It wasn't shown why she's so nice to everyone, it wasn't shown how she earned so much love, it wasn't shown how her flaws affect her on a deeper, human level, and frankly she just doesn't really feel like a person? She feels like a trope, like one very heavily exaggerated trait. You can be nice and loved and STILL be a flawed character, make mistakes, make bad decisions, have something that overall at least in some shape or form interferes with your daily life, something that you can learn from. You can't just be "forever nice", that's very unrealistic. Sure, it's a fantasy game so it doesn't have to be realistic, but it's just... boring? If being nice is the character's only prominent trait, then what's the fun? Where's the sauce? The flavor?
You can make a nice character and STILL give them an interesting personality and conflict, whether it's an inner or an outer one
Nilou just doesn't have enough character development. She's at a standstill and hasn't really moved or changed as a person, nor was it shown that she's not JUST about being nice. All I personally remember her for is "She's nice and she dances". Those are her main traits. Yes, she had an important role to play in the opposition to the Akademiya, and her story quest was also about that. But it just didn't feel impactful or important enough. Her story quest felt more like it was about the NPCs rather than her. She was just a mediator there. It's unfortunate
I really agree that giving them struggles and flaws is important, not only for this sort of characters but every single playable character including the special ones. I think specifically in Genshin, I have no issues with normal-esque characters as long as they don't live in a vacuum and they interact strongly onscreen with at least a portion of the cast. Someone like Thoma or Yoimiya get along with everyone in a fun way, so I don't mind if they're a bit plain. Poor Layla is the opposite: we like her because she's extremely relatable (except in her DID) but she's inside her own bubble in the Sumeru cast, and while it makes sense because everyone but Collei is older, that makes me sad since we get stuff like not getting invited to the Sabzerus plans.
Take Kaveh as an example of well-written normal character with good socialization, to keep it to the Sumeru area. Just an architect, got a vision in a depressing but not life-threatening situation. He's had struggles in both his professional and personal life, strongly hinted he suffers from depression. Even his positive, idealistic traits are a bit twisted to the point his naive kindness/empathy is one of his biggest character flaws. Besides that, the main reason I adore Kaveh is his relationships with others. His situationship with Alhaitham, his delightful interactions with Faruzan, his friendships with Tighnari and Cyno and Collei, even the toxic situation with Dori. Then compare to Nilou. She's more close to the theater NPCs. While she does interact with other Sumeru characters in events, they feel shallow and none of them is close friends with her. Even Candace, who's also a bit too perfect and underdeveloped as well, has Dehya and is a part of the gang. Nilou didn't truly befriend the Simulanka peeps either (not counting the squirrels), and I'm not sure her new relationship with Surush or Sethos will ever come back.
Now if we go to Chiori as your main example, she has interacted with half of Fontaine at this point, and she has strong friendships with Chevreuse, Kirara, and Navia in particular. We SEE these friendships onscreen too, unlike the ones with Emilie which are all tell and no show. Even if most of her lore is locked behind her profile stories, her story quest is pretty nice: does touch upon her past and professional life, and shows the way she tackles upon conflicts and problems. Meanwhile, Nilou's SQ isn't even about her because it's NPC Impact and she's fixing a random friend's life. Which is wild because the quest WAS about the Akademiya's attitude against the arts! The same thing Nilou fans keep highlighting when they defend her writing, that she's so revolutionary for pursuing the arts! Also, if the antagonic guy had been Nilou's dad or grandpa or uncle instead and her own position as a dancer was on jeopardy, for instance, that change would've been huge to make her more likable. But instead she was more of a senpai/defender to this girl, and the focus was on the NPC as if the theater closing down was second in importance to Nilou at some points of the quest.
This video really captivated just why Nilou Isn't one of my "I want to get" characters.
She has a lot of things going for her and I ADORE her design, But I don't feel the resonance or drive as a person to pull. I like getting characters I like plain and simple. So perhaps I just don't like the bundle of perfection she is.
It's funny how imperfections can make people perfect in storytelling😂 It's like going against what it actually wants. I have that trouble when I'm trying to make characters but with your help in this video perhaps I could improve
In summary, GREAT VID❤👍
I really hope Ifa is like this when he drops. We only know him from voice lines so I hope he's like this.
My argument against your take on Nilou having no problems and an uncannily perfect life, is the Sumeru Archon quest. Literally the first archon quest in Sumeru shows that the Academia basically hates the arts, and outright tries to ban artistic expression. Nilou, as a performer, aka a person involved in the artistic world, is clearly facing a problem here, a significant one, considering her job is to perform. Is it a problem she solves? No, but she does contribute to it by the end of the archon quest.
Chiori really is something, I love her
This video really well summed up my gripes with Nilou!
Nilou suffers from the issue of Mihoyo trying to make most characters "hold hands and sing kumbaya" no one really out right hates each other outside of Scara and Raiden, Colei and that harbinger, Diluc and Kaeya. Characters are either stand offish or tryig to save face. My biggest example is the people of Inazuma and Raiden. Ayaka refuses to talk ill about raiden (aka call out all of her BS) after everything she has done, but in the same voice line says that "if the traveler was to engage in combat with raiden shes wouldn't refuse to stand by them" make it make sense. Why so stand offish? You clearly hold resentment.
Ayaka is from the Kamisato Clan, leading lady of the Yashiro Commission. She CANNOT under any circumstances be caught speaking ill about the Shogun.
If you know about the Japanese and their society you'd know how absolutely taboo it is to show any strong negative emotions openly, even in 2024. Especially against someone higher than you in the hierarchy of power.
Any disagreement can at most be alluded to, not openly spelt out.
Also given that Inazuma is essentially feudal Edo Era Japan, being caught saying anything against the Shogun would be considered out right blasphemous, putting her and the entire commission in danger.
@idkatthispoint-s9s yet at the same time she's saying she will stand against her if the Traveler does which is worse than speaking out against her actions. The conversation is 1 on 1 with the traveler, and according to you its looked down apon to ill speak someone with a higher status but it's ok to say "yeah I will gladly betray my nation's monarch if you fight her" I will fight along side you.
The voice line is inconsistent and contradicting, just like the rest of Inazuma's writing.
"I ain't gonna talk shit about her but if hands are to be thrown I'm throwing too" ahhh voice line😭
Very minor correction, but Diluc and Kaeya aren't exactly what I'd call "hating each other". They've got history for sure, but they've also had multiple events that have tried to set up some form of reconciliation between the two, the two have been shown they can be civil with each other in spite of the history they have, and we know Kaeya is even still allowed to visit the Winery whenever he pleases with no real "get the fuck out, you're not welcome here" from Diluc. A fractured relationship on ice that's trying thaw? Sure. Complete and utter hatred? I'm not so sure about that one. I really argue that they fall into the standoffish corner more than hate.
Also, mentioning Collei and Dottore as a hate thing but somehow leaving out Scara, who literally expressed disappointment that he only has one Dottore to put back into god's recycling bin is a crime- I know he's absolutely Ei's opp but being disappointed that you can't have multiple murder schemes against the likely hundreds if not thousands of clones made of one specific dude because that dude already nuked them is a whole other world of hatred. No one is Dottore's biggest hater outside of Scara for that. That's just something else entirely.
@@vivianameganviviana3486its been a while for me I took a big gap in genshin and completely forgot some of the world building between characters. So it's kinda mushy for me😭
There's also Diona, who outright dislikes a good chunk of Mondstad's cast because they're "drunkards", but was still mostly civil with Venti in the somewhat recent alchemy event, but i guess tolerating said drunkards is tecnically part of her job description and Venti was being nice to her. I like that she still showed some bitterness in there
( i wrote this b4 watching but now i do see your point hehe. still gonna put my ideas here bc i've already written too much)
as a chiori kinnie/absolute lover (like you, as i can see), she is NOT normal. although she does try to live a normal life, trouble and adventure always follows her footsteps. she's hated by every single one of her masters (how can someone even dislike her???), the only "master" that didn't hate her was ogura mio. i say "master" because chi refused ogura's offer of working for her but still appreciated it. she got into trouble with the tenryou commission as a child. climbed the kamisato estate's walls and (most likely) became ayaka's 1st friend from 'outside'. has exceptional cooking/baking skills (dare i say, as good as xiangling's). has (probably) appeared on the steambird multiple times. is friends with practically every melusine (bc she's the only designer that makes melusine clothing). has very strong ties with most of the fontaine cast. helped 'make' ayaka's 2nd outfit. AND was almost shot on her story quest (if i remember correctly). all i've said does not make you think of a 'normal' character, does it? i wrote sm i forgot my point lmao. but uhm i would like to know what your thoughts on my whole ahh story, i do think it could be a very interesting convo between 2 chiori lovers! it's really hard to find someone who's as passionate as i am about her! :3 also kirara is very interesting too! from what i've understood, she got her 2nd tail and her vision in the same day :o (according to her story and 3.7 event)
sorry, i'm a yapper when it comes to things i like! :,)
Nilou did have problems in her life. It was the Akademiya always opposing her.
I'd say she represents the types of intelligence that often get overlooked because they're not considered "real" by the more "intellectual" parts of society. The Sages only valued logical intelligence, and considered the arts to be useless. If having high intelligence makes you a genius, then Nilou could be considered a genius in terms of emotional and artistic intelligence. She's the complete opposite of the sages, down to being open-minded, reasonable, and considerate.
I guess they could have shown or at least said more about her past experiences with the Akademiya's opposition.
And I'd say the reasom why she appears to be loved by everyone is because most of the interactions we saw her have were with people from the Grand Bazaar, which is basically where the more artistic people of Sumeru, the ones shunned by the Akademiya, gather together, so there's basically no reason for them to oppose each other, since they're united by their common points. The only ones we see hate Nilou are the ones from the Akademiya who value logic above all. I guess they could expand on this by showing Nilou interacting with other people from Sumeru City who are not from the Akademiya.
At the same time, it's probably not very likely that she'll be disliked by a lot of people, since from what we saw the only hate towards her and the Theater was by the Sages and their followers, since even the students liked her performance.
Yeah but like the average person doesn’t get opposed by an organization so I don’t think that really counts in this context
i feel like a problem that nilou would struggle with would bebeing that perfect person, scared of being "impefect"
Like she feels like she ehas to be the perfect person she is, nothing lower or else she thinks that people will think badly of her
and the reason that no one knows this is bc she gaurds this secret from everyone and anyone- her close friends, collueges and family
I know it not perfect but if you have any tips for improvong this id be happy to hear it
so what happened during the Archon quest doesn't count ?
Everyone have struggles that true, but not everyone tired their butt out in pursuit of one dream. A lot of people change objectives along the way, especially if they are struggling. Nilou had a gift for dancing and a rather normal, almost "problemless" life. While that isn't a generality there are people like that. On the other hand Chiori had to stuggle against all odds and succed to become celebrity she is now. And again it does happened but it's not more common than talented people. I'd say it's even more uncommon.
And i like both Nilou and Chiori
I'd argue that the Archon Quest is where Nilou's character is at her best because we actually see how much she cares about Nahida's birthday and the festival, and see her fight for it. The problem is everything else afterward- because Nilou doesn't have anything she can really work on or pursue, all her appearances and stories just continue to reinforce the same things about her.
She's a static character.
As the video says- it's OK that Nilou has a gift for dancing and is normal and has a life with little struggles. The problem is that it, from a writing perspective, it doesn't make for the most compelling or even relatable character. This can be solved if Hoyo were more willing to write quests that involved Nilou being in stiuations where she can show more sides to her beyond being nice, a dancer, and moments of self-doubt (like anger, jealousy, depression, annoyance, etc.) But they don't.
If what I'm criticizing is why you and a lot of fans like her, then that's fine. But there is an actual reason others don't and this video is the kindest explanation why, in my opinion.
@@pinkraven7043 i see what you mean, and i'm not saying your are wrong. Nilou indeed doesn't change much in the way you may expect from a "character progression". I can understant that some people may find it boring but i think that hoyo wanted her to be as smooth as possible. Her life looks almost perfect, she's nice, is talented for dance, is a faithful believer of her archon. Nearly everyone love her. I can understand that some people would want more difficulties/negative side to her, but the way she is, especially after simulanka i believe that hoyo wanted to make her that overlly joyfull and positive character
@@hirods9889 If that's the direction they wanted for her, then more power to them.
But, frankly, for me it means that there's nothing to look forward to when Nilou is in an event. No fun interactions, no development, no conflict, etc. I read a breakdown on how Nilou's lack of substance meant she has little to no chemistry with the other characters (Traveler included) and I share the same opinion.
Of course, at the end of the day these are all just opinions about a video game. I just wish Genshin took more chances with their characters and what happened with Nilou is a constant reminder to me that they won't, especially if the fandom will just accept it.
@@pinkraven7043 I actually don't agree with that. Among all the interactions we had with her you never got any interest in her ? Of course that's totally subjective. You can't like every character. I won't call her a complex character, bc she's not. But that doesn't make her uninteresting, to me at least.
@@hirods9889 It’s fine to agree to disagree. To answer your question- the only time Nilou was interesting to me was in the Archon Quest. That interest died a slow and painful death once I realized and accepted that Hoyo was never going to do anything interesting with Nilou again.
I want to emphasize that everyone looks for a different experience when indulging in any media. I play Genshin because I like most of the characters and I have fun with how much potential there is for character interactions and development. It’s why the 2.8 Summer Event, 3.5 Windblume, and parts of the Interdarshan Championship have been some of my favorite events in Genshin.
Frankly- part of why I couldn’t hold my interest in Nilou is because all of her interactions are so…Meh. She’s just nice/polite to everyone and everyone else is nice back (at worst, they’re polite or tolerant of her). And if they’re not nice to her, they’re usually an antagonist. It’s so boring and it makes it hard for me to enjoy her or find her potential.
If Nilou is so perfect and talented I promise you she will have a couple of haters, its just not feasible, just terrible writing.
I really want an in depth video about Layla I love her so much yet i couldn’t find anyone who talks about her story and background because my eyes hurt from reading it in game with my small phone ໒꒰ྀི｡- ˕ -｡꒱ྀི১
I honestly thinks that she in the Archon quest is pretty good, her love for the Sabzeruz Festival causing the infinite loop of each day because she wants to continue the dance and be unbother by the academia, to do the thing she does best, dance. But I have no idea what her story quest was lol, it was the same level as Ayato's in my opinion
Amazing content as always ❤
I think of characters like Nilou as "blessed" which works great if there is a "cursed" rival to contrast. The entire dynamic would be great if there was a character who despises Nilou but has to hold back that resentment because she is always so polite.
Nilou SQ is so much wasted potential to me. She's so mary sue OC type and...i cant sympathize with her. Thankfully her role in the AQ is kinda a saving grace.
you are definitely much more understandeable! love that :)
also, I don't think relateable is the right word for what you mean. Chiori, as a successful business owner from abroad with an unsupporting family, is not really relateable after all. It's more that we can emphasize well with her dreams and ambitions than relate to her.
The real reason I liked Nilou's story quest was mostly because I resonated with the story they're telling but the highlight wasn't Nilou because Nilou herself is boring
🫂💙
Hehee
It's kind of hard to follow your videos. I have to actually focus to keep up with what you're saying. So can you please slow down and speak a bit more clearly.
Layla is the most relatable and normal character in the entire game, Nilou just send her to the shadow realm and no one will ever realize she died that's how forgettable and good for nothing she is