Peter Attia’s Personal Experience with OxyContin after Back Surgery
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 гру 2021
- Watch the full episode: bit.ly/31H4J3j
--------
About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 35 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
Learn more: bit.ly/3ox0lNb
Subscribe to receive exclusive subscriber-only content: bit.ly/3dplcvA
Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: bit.ly/303sXEr
Connect with Peter on:
Facebook: bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB
Twitter: bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW
Instagram: bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG
Subscribe to The Drive:
Apple Podcast: bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts
Overcast: bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast
Spotify: bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify
Google Podcasts: bit.ly/TheDriveGoogle
![Optimizing brain health: Alzheimer's risk factors, APOE, & prevention strategies [AMA 46 sneak peek]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ELK-k7DO1Is/mqdefault.jpg)
![Optimizing brain health: Alzheimer's risk factors, APOE, & prevention strategies [AMA 46 sneak peek]](/img/tr.png)
![ЛЕБЕДЕВ у ДУДЯ: муху не обманешь 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E74h5fvVrqs/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m a pharmacist, back surgery patient, recovering opiate addict. I applaud Dr. Attia for sharing this.
One thing he said that is factually incorrect is his claim that Neurontin is non-addictive. It is absolutely addictive as it works on the gabaminergic pathways similar to alcohol and benzodiazapines. It is classified as a controlled substance in 7 states.
Wow…didn’t see that coming. Thanks for being so open Peter
I can't even get my arms around the fact that a doctor operated near your spinal cord on the WRONG SIDE!
Thank you for your candidness. You are amazing!
Such a gripping talk. Much love all
Thanks for sharing! It’s very helpful
Much needed video doc 👍. Thank you
I so appreciate physicians who understand addiction.
Thanks for being so honest.
Thanks for sharing your story Dr Attis. ✌️🙏
Thank you for sharing your story.
Wow. Thanks so much for sharing that.
The empathy is from being able to relate to the suffering of the individual who’s going through what you went through. Not difficult to uncover
Thanks doc
It’s brave and great to hear your own experiences, even those you are not proud of.
Thank you for sharing-
Thank you for describing so precisely what millions of people have gone through and a glimpse into how we got here in this crisis. I love how you talk about moral obligation.
Thanks for sharing this personal experience. Lots of chronic pain patients started off just like you, now they're convinced they need daily opioids to get by and are in denial about being addicted.
Thank you for sharing your experience with oxy.
I needed this as I tweaked my back today, if not careful. I could fall in the same trap. I share in your empathy. I share so much empathy in those who suffer this or any addiction, or someone in persistent chronic pain.
Motrin!
It works
I survived benzo addiction. It's the most Hellish thing that I have gone through. I never really got into opioids though.
What an amazing story!
Thanks for sharing , the progression of this Disease. I did not escape from 1999 to 2010. I took this narcotic and it took me.
Thanks for your understanding and compassion.
I’m recovering from the same surgery except mine was L3/L4, and the pain was intense after but during my recovery, the MOST Oxycodone I’ve been on was 10mg a day (thank goodness). But I ABSOLUTELY understand how afraid it made him and I’m MUCH MORE understanding and compassionate towards those who suffer from addiction.
Thank you Peter for your honesty and sharing this publicly.
I just finished watching Dopesick. You are very lucky!
Wow! What a story! So glad you shared it and the lessons you learned!!!
Wow! he didn’t “dodge” the oxycontin bullet but more accurately “dislodged” the bullet.
Amazing story.
Thank you Dr. Attia! I was dependent on 30 mg OxyContin due to a fall down stairs where I fractured several spinal vertebrae. I ran out after 3 weeks and couldn’t get hold of my doctor to refill or at least taper off. I learned quickly what physiological dependence was from the withdrawal of that ‘small’ dose. You are right. It was miserable for me too! I was convinced I was dying. Didn’t know it was the withdrawal until I wound up in ER of local hospital. The attending doctor did not tell me his suspicion that it was drug withdrawal. I saw my primary doctor the next day and he told me that was probably what was happening. I too have an appreciation and understanding of what some folks are going through being hooked. Never taking that drug again!!
@B L No I did not because I couldn’t afford attorneys fees. Thanks for your feedback!
Oh yea I had a horrible injury and had to have open wound packing for a giant injury on my thigh. I had to be on painkillers for the severity of the pain for 6 weeks. Well after healing for 3 weeks I threw the pills out because I figured I was healed enough and next morning I was shaking, sweating and throwing up. I thought I just had the flu. But after two days of agonizing vomiting shaking sweating I did some Internet research and realized I was having severe withdrawals. I dug the pills out of the trash, took one and within 10 minutes all of the symptoms went away. That’s when it dawned on me I was physically addicted like a heroin addict. It took me six months to get through with drawls slowly reducing the pills. The last 2 months I had to take Suboxone just to wean myself off. Never thought I would ever go through something like that. I’m someone who doesn’t drink or smoke cigarettes so to think that I would be the equivalent of a heroin addict blew my mind. One of the most agonizing things I’ve ever been through and I have absolute more sympathy and understanding how some people become addicted to drugs through painkillers.
Powerful vulnerability. Strong man
Has there ever been a study to see if there is a physical difference in people that can quit highly addictive substances cold turkey? It can’t all be will power. I was a heavy drinker from my teens into my 30s and quit it cold turkey with no assistance and was also a heavily addicted nicotine user until last year and quit it cold turkey. I’m a person with very little self control or will power so it has to be something else allowing me to accomplish these things.
I'd be part of it. I tried to be a smoker, cause I was lonely and smokers always hung out together, but after 3 weeeks of smoking, I felt so sick I could barely put a cigarette to my mouth and quit.
I tried meth, did it everyday for a couple months, then realized it made me weird and I stopped. No cravings. I tried smoking it too which people say is the beginning of the end , and it was gross. I preferred lines.
Did OxyContin recreationally once. Snorted it, while doing it was fun, but afterwards wasn't in to the dreamy high. Plus had a horrible comedown from using it once.
Worked at a club. Drank every time I worked for a couple years. I knew I was an alcoholic at work. I couldn't stop, but outside of work I only drank when partying. Got a dui, and I quit drinking at work.
I was seriously depressed. I tried to have a drug problem cause then I could easily get help, but I can't get addicted to anything, except addicted to depression.
Damn near same story here! I have so much self awareness about my addictive personality. I think people that hold a lot of shame and guilt have a hard time quitting. I had to forgive myself. I heard there’s a link to religion and addiction also. I was raised Catholic and Catholic guilt is a real thing. My guilt and shame still make me want to use. I am aware of it and goes away quickly after I remind myself of where that road leads. I am still learning to care for myself over others.
@@argoneonobleyou’re not alone. There’s a lot to unpack with what you said but maybe try therapy. You never know it might help.
@@argoneonoble it’s the same for me, anything drug related, be it alcohol, cigarettes, weed, i get really quickly disgusted and sick of it. I think I’m really not good at withstanding substances in my body and naturally feel sick of it immediately.
@@argoneonoble oh and yes, I’m also only addicted to my depression and video games as an escape from the daily misery and pain. Also I feel like the depression has in the recent years from my 20s to 30s also started to make me physically unwell. I am chronically tired, low energy and driverless. Just going for a walk feels like a burden. It really sucks, I feel like my biology has been very sensitive to my depression as it is towards drugs and it all brings these negative consequences now… just think8ng about it makes me wanna avoid this topic already.
I have suffered from active addiction earlier on in my life (17yrs). Been in recovery (clean) now for nearly 24 years in Feb. I realized that what enabled my freedom was the acceptance of pain’s presence (emotional, mental, and physical), and not the absence of it. If oblivion/avoidance of pain was still sought then addiction would surely ensue. So then where pain is accepted addiction wields no power to ensnare, trap, demoralize, or even kill.
Salute Dr. Attia.
Well said 👍
My heart goes out to you because no one should be subjected to what they put you through. A disgrace!
I remember watching Michael Keaton’s character’s descent in Dopesick, and feeling so sorry for him.
An interview on Peter's spine problems would be much appreciated!
Think he went into it more on rogan
@@trump45and2zig-zags thanks! 😊
This has happened to so many!
This makes me like him 100x more.
I was on oxys for 3 months pre and post hip surgery. I halved my dose each day till I got off oxys. When I ran out of pills, my internals felt like an itch I couldn’t scratch.
This is the only other time Peter talked about his back injury like this. The other is in his podcast with jocko
The frustrating part of the hx of pain management is that now people myself included are not treated for their pain and it takes years to find someone who will do something. There needs to be a happy medium ...there are many people who struggle or suffer daily with pain and they should not be made to suffer for the past wrongs. I am also glad he acknowledged he, wasn't one of the people that the addiction trigger gets switched. This topic is not black and white and needs to be researched more. From my experience , we have gone too far in the opposite direction.
I'd also argue that psychptropic medication and pain medication are used way too much, and treatment without it is way too little. When you struggled with addiction, and you are in recovering from it. You know addiction is the addict, not the substance.
Yes
and this happened to a very bright guy that was a doctor at the time and had other people around him to help him
Sincere thanks for sharing, it happens. Been there done that. Went from Oxy to pure powder cocaine. Then found if I took more, could work more and sleep less to work more to make more money to work more to buy more cocaine to work more......then it got to a very expensive problem. Almost destroyed life, divorce, bankrupt, millions in debit, had to free fall, hit bottom, then stand up and come back to the real world. So many never make it back, so many never have your family. Family and friends are critical.
Once again, a doctor/addict vilifying oxycontin. It saves my life. A small dose allows me a small life. He chose to get more from his doctor friends. I can only just get a tiny amount under the constant control of the laws. I get no high..none. I just get pain relief. Thank god for oxycontin.
He's not vilifying it. He's vilifying the fact that a doctor who wasn't an expert in pain management had him on 400MG within 4 months. He's vilifying the practices in the early days that enabled that kind of scenario to unfold, the lies and marketing schemes from big pharma. I'm glad it works for you and I hope you always have access to it. Doesn't change that fact that it's also harmed so many people. And that the origin of that is slimy profit-loving people who sold their souls, not the drug itself. Opiates are lifesavers for so many people.
I'm open to the idea that in the future opiates will be used as antidepressants. I take kratom daily (something to look into for your pain management, btw, if God forbid you ever don't have access to your oxycontin) and it's incredible for my mental health, works way better than most of he myriad drugs I was forced to take for years. I don't think you should look down on addicts. We all have issues we're trying to self-medicate, emotional and physical pain are both debilitating. Moderation is key. And I don't think any addict who is desperately trying to numb a different kind of pain is entertaining thoughts that their medication might hurt your access to yours. We're all trying to get by.
Also I don't think Dr. Attia is an addict, that's how he was able to quit cold turkey and never go back. He was physically dependent on it and he recognized how dangerous the euphoria was which is why he quit. An addict wouldn't do that, they would go to any length possible to stay on it, barring a moment of clarity/rock bottom happening way down the line. I think you should give some benefit of the doubt that some people got roped into addiction. Maybe people who would have never tried this drug if not for he overzealous pharma salesmen and the doctors getting handouts from them and just buying their sales pitch...it's been a tragedy and I think the real people to blame are those who knew it was addictive and marketed it as non-addictive anyway. Lots of unsuspecting people got caught up in this. Arguably hurt by it just as bad as you, if not worse.
Sounds awesome, want some.
Sean Mackey is great. Lot of research and innovation comes out of Stanford around pain management. You can check their UA-cam channel Stanford Pain Medicine.
I took it once recreationally. It was good for a couple hours, then I had a comedown with extreme nausea and projectile vomiting. I didn't know anything about it when I took it , but I recognized the comedown symptoms from tv shows. Googled it, and was blown away I had taken an opiate.
I didn't like the high. It was like being in a dream. I've been prescribed Valium and Vicodin before and I the Vicodin was similar. I didn't like it either. Valium just let me sleep really well.
I'm lucky that I'm amongst those that doesn't like opiates
I'm not a healthcare professional, but I handle workers' compensation claims and I've seen a lot of people go through back surgeries and monitored their post-op care. Peter's story is pretty much the norm. Not the part about operating on the wrong side, but the rest about having back surgery and getting addicted to opioids. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say this occurs in 80% of workers' comp patients (that I've seen) who have back surgery. Then after a decade or two they have liver problems and incontinence problems as well. Thank you, pain management. Whenever I know someone who is considering back surgery, I tell them to get at least two further opinions. I have two uncles and a brother-in-law who had back surgeries and their back is still fucked and they take opioids daily. My dad was recommended for back surgery 20 years ago, he got a second opinion who said he wouldn't recommend it, so my dad didn't have the surgery and he's never taken a pain pill and his back got better over time. Now he's 71 and he's 100% capable. He fixes cars, does yard work, etc with no problems. He rates his pain as a 1. Many back issues will get significantly better over time. I think many of these spine surgeons are preying on people when they recommend back surgery when people's pain is at its peak. They leave out the part about their back getting better with exercise and time.
I’m in nursing school, and I thought it was absolutely insane to learn that surgeon’s occasionally operate on the wrong site. Now I know… it absolutely does happen. But honestly…. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN.
Life happens, we are all humans. Thinking about sex with the nurses, thinking about their mother who just died, in the process of getting married or getting a divorce, kids are sick, thinking about bills, taxes, some have drinking, drug and gambling problems, maybe someone waiting outside to break their legs for not paying a gambling debt,... many many things. Doctor just means we spent years learning info, vomiting the info for tests and then spent the time jumping through hoops trying to apply the knowledge to the point of burnout. Some are geniuses and others educated idiots with a scrip pad and a knife and some of us fall in between. In the end, just normal people. People fail, people make mistakes, this is the reasons for Procedures and Rules, Series of checks and balances. When someone works on the wrong side, not just the doctor who failed, but also nurses, hospital procedures,...many things had to fail along the way.
@@DrAJ_LatinAmerica This is exactly why I asked the question.. how does this happen? I believe it’s the circulating nurse who is responsible for calling a timeout to verify the right patient, procedure, site, etc. It’s hard to imagine that even after everyone did their proper checks the doc could still operate on the wrong site.
@@julianvandersteen2303 agree, hard to believe. Follow the money. Push people in, push people out, ring the cash register.
@@DrAJ_LatinAmerica soooo AJ any nurses you'd like to tell us about?
@@BrianDeCosta Yes : ) Life is short, work hard and play hard. Here in Columbia there are some awesome nurses. Just be professional and do what you have to do outside of work and not on work hours.
I got shot when i was 16, got my first opioids then, i got lucky too. Many injuries over the years and Ive never lost my fear of pain meds. I refused morphine during acute appendicitis. Got hurt bad in july and took nsaids for 10 days and wound up with small bowel Intussusception. Got lucky again and avoided surgery….pain meds are a hard NO
I was prescribed Oxycontin for pain relief after a colon resection in 2017. I experienced terrifying hallucinations for some time after the first dose. Never again will I knowingly go near that drug.
Living in chronic pain is very difficult. Unfortunately pain meds are the only thing (accompanied with PT, diet, meditation) that work for some people. It’s a balancing act for years and years…
Those who stop completely and can stay off are blessed!
These drugs in the right hands and under the right care are wonderful, but the other side of that is it’s a bottomless pit for many…
What ethical doctor in their right mind would ever allow 400mg of Oxy a day on someone. The withdrawal is horrendous. Been through it. Brutal.
I stopped a ten year opiate habit using a substance called Ibogaine. I haven’t touched an opiate since August 9th, 2020. No cravings… Little withdrawals…
Gabapentin is not benign. Takes a little longer but has addiction, high and withdrawals. It’s a myth that it doesn’t
It would have been useful to hear how you ever allowed your doses to increase from 20 to 400. It seems odd you ever allowed it to increase at all.
You hit the nail on the head.!! He probably initiated the increased dosage bcoz the Dr would Never have increased dosage unless he told the Dr he needs a higher dose to cover the pain .
Scary all around - what an ecosystem / closed loop around this drug
Holy shit, 400 mg. Good thing his liver didn’t explode.
I am shocked that he went up to 400mg so quickly! I’m in the UK and have been on OxyContin for 20 years for chronic back pain from scoliosis and although the dose has slowly increased, so has my age and joint issues. I started on 10mg twice a day and I’m now on 50 - 60 mg a day up to a max of 80mg if I have needed to do physical jobs ie. house work. The more I take it makes me itch! I have always kept my dose down as low as possible. So I am totally shocked when his dose shot up so fast to 400mg. I can’t imagine taking half that amount, it would put me to sleep for a week!! I would love to stop taking it, but don’t know what the answer to chronic pain is. I’m currently waiting to see someone at the hospital pain management clinic.
@@ange5673 You take OxyContin? I thought they didn't make it anymore. I've been on hydrocodone for awhile for chronic osteoarthritis from years of heavy weight lifting and I too get itchy if I take too much. I only take 7.5 and haven't had to increase the dosage. I don't tolerate it well if I take more than that. I get nauseous and I don't like the way I feel the next day. Have you noticed any change in your bone density? Apparently opiates affect bone health and heart health but the studies I saw were more correlative than causative.
The number of people who dont get addicted is ~18% according to Perdue's study. Also, from everything Ive read and from what doctors have told me, unlike alcohol, you cant actually die from withdrawal... but you will wish desperately for it. 3 weeks might as well be eternity.
Wow
I have back problems probably sciatica I don’t know,I’m totally terrified of taking something like ibuprofen,this sounds like hell and back ,the whole thing leaves me total limbo
HOW DID THE SURGEON OPERATE ON THE WRONG SIDE????
I took me over 2 YEARS TO GET OFF OF BENZOS CLONAZEPAM or KLONOPIN... Bro.. 3 weeks is NOTHING....
Your lucky as hell you didn’t have benzodiazepine protracted withdrawl syndrome, I’ve been off Klonopin for 4 years and my central nervous system never returned to normal. I only sleep about 3 hours, still have electrical shocks called brain zaps , vertigo, equilibrium problems, constantly nervous, can’t drink caffeine or alcohol b/c of how much it effects the nervous system, I’m home bound 95% of the time and need help with certain daily activities sometimes. Oh yea and I’m only 48.
@@Remi-bt7tp Very sorry to hear that Remi... how many Mg. were you on and for how long?
@@Remi-bt7tp I can give you some things to do to Feel Better...
I had a similar experience with oxycontin; was prescribed 80mg twice daily for 3 weeks (plus percocet if needed) while getting over a bad case of pancreatitis. I was not in a fog with it as you described; all it did was make me tired. I never needed to increase the dosage as the condition gradually subsided, but I did not lower the dosage either. However, I did the same as you and just stopped taking it and took the percocet to help minimize the physiological addition, then about a week later just stopped the percocet cold...took about 36 hours for the withdrawal symptoms to subside. I still take vicodin on occasion but never get any kind of 'high' from it - i just get sleepy. I guess I am either lucky and/or weird. However, we have some friends whose grandmother was put on oxy for a fall and she got addicted to it in the few weeks she was on it and had to be put in rehab...at 90 years old.
While the manufacturer clearly misrepresented how addictive oxy was (and still is), there are an awful lot of doctors/prescribers that have a tremendous amount of liability for over and/or mis-prescribing it.
My wife has a mastectomy and didn't take Oxycodone or anything. I blew up my ankles in motocross and couldn't do it, had to take pain pills... I'm such a wussy!
Neurontin is not a benign drug. It is Gabapentin and many users do become addicted to it.
1:18 HOLY. HELL.
Thanks Peter for your honesty . As a physician colleague your personal journey illustrates the complexity that we have all have faced over the years on balancing pain control and opioid use . With the current mandated training we have almost eliminated the use of opioids for the treatment of acute pain. Rarely do our patients even ask for them anymore, and our residents will most time consult us , the Attendings , prior to prescribing narcotics. As I have subsequently learned since then, from mandated licensure CME requirements, that chronic pain rarely improves with opioid use , it just reduces the anxiety related to the pain.
Repeated shoulder surgeries after injury and infections resulted in repeated prescriptions of oxy. I was extremely fortunate. I hated it and never took it for more than a day or 2, preferring to suffer the pain. I never knew how addictive it was. Thank you for sharing this.
knees over toes guy. Seriously.
The placebo/nocebo effect in action.
Holy shit.
The same "legitimate doctor" that didn't know left from right. My mind is trying to be in Attia's shoes at the time...constant concerns over succeeding in med school, financial pressures, the doctor screwing up - a valid mal-practice case I would think - but then, you're a med student, wondering how THAT would play out as you struggle to keep your bearings, focused on med school, dealing with pain...wow.
John Agapos, yada yada.....stop babbling....
@@mikevaldez7684 Pipe it yourself, troll. Don't like my words, don't read 'em.
what a crime Perdue committed with Oxy. i think it took like 20 years before they were finally fined. this doctors story is very similar to the doctor in the show Dopesick which is all about Perdue & Oxy. i highly recommend the show. Michael Keaton & Rosario Dawson are fantastic in it.
Isn't your brain and it's connections part of your physiology?
Sometimes the ship can't be saved because its not a ship at all; just a fragment floating that our delirium confused for a ship!
Ei ei oo what's popping tonight
Sounds like a story from House
Damn, I can't believe a surgeon operated on the wrong side of the back of a fellow sergeon. It really makes you think about the competence of some of these Drs. Sad...
I hope you sued the crap out of that surgeon for malpractice!
LOST HIS MEDICAL LICENSE
Jesus that is a ton per day
Surgeon are semi-dangerous, everything is a nail to them. Always look at the man behind the tool.
sounds like a episode of dopestick
You were lucky. Some are not so lucky and end up hooked on much more dangerous street drugs.
Peter, are your teeth real?
Surgeon wanted him dead so he wouldn't sue for operating on the wrong side.
Yeah, that surgeon was probably on something, for sure.
Why would you trust the surgeon with the RX of pain meds when he couldn’t operate on the correct side of your back ? Was that not your first clue as You were a med student.
This guy is so smug and arrogant
"The point of this story is not to show superiority like look at me I got off this drug"
If it wasn't you wouldn't have said that.
I wish he wouldn't completely discount his own will power and mental/physical discipline in getting off Oxy. I don't think "luck" tells the whole picture. Of course there are neuro-chemical and physiological aspects to addiction and drug use, but the factor of personal responsibility and discipline needs to be spoken about more, instead of just discounting it.
The guy listening seems so uninterested?
Really! To me he seems to be concentrating with great empathy
@@cankerbloom9015 you are correct.
In my opinion, being near the end of medical school/studying/ exercising/ expanding the capacity of your brains’ neural network/ forming and foresting the many bright living branches of your brain - is how you did not become addicted to the Oxycotin.
That was you not to chance, or entirely that you are simply biologically lucky. It sounds like
you created your biology. 🤍
Wow