Easily Remove Shellac from Gunstocks
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- In this episode, we'll demonstrate a safe and easy way to remove varnish from gunstocks and metal with no sanding necessary. We're working on a Winchester 1894 saddle ring carbine with gumwood stocks that has previously had the finish sanded off and a heavy coat of varnish added. We'll follow up with an episode attempting to replicate Winchester's factory finish on these gumwood stocks.
Dear Mark, I have a similar technique which I have been using for 20 odd years refurbishing old military rifles, what I do is place a paper towel/shop towel over the stock and complete wet it with paint thinners or acetone. the shop towel will allow the thinners/acetone to work longer before evaporating; and as it evaporates the finish is absorbed into the towel and thrown away. One or two goes and most finishes will be in the paper towel. No mess and works great.
Learned about denatured alcohol back in the early 90s, from an antique furniture restorer. Another good way is brush it on liberally, let it set for about 10 minutes. It will bubble and lift the old varnish. Scrape it off with a plastic bondo spreader. Clean up with another alcohol soaked rag.
Great tip. Thanks Jack!
I have not been shooting since my brother killed himself but I sure like watching your videos with these old lever guns. They were a work of art: the mating of wood and steel with artistic craftmanship is a thing of beauty. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Larry! So sorry to hear about your brother.
@@thecinnabar8442 me too. Keep up the good work
Yeah mate that's pretty good stuff that and it also works well in getting out old gun oil in the wood . Great tips mate look forward in see her finished
Great tip. Always been lil concerned about stripping and refinishing any of my guns,so I can't wait for next video. I have a model 36 Marlin apart right now. This info is perfect timing for me. Thank you for all the Videos and info.
Thanks Robert! The denatured alcohol works well on the varnishes, but doesn't have much of an effect on most other finishes. I generally try to save the original finish if at all possible. Unfortunately, this one had the finish removed and that varnish added, so I'm having to take it down and start from over.
Well I’ve watched every one of your videos today and commented on most. I really enjoy what you’re doing and look forward to more. Thanks!
Wow! I appreciate you spending your day watching my home movies.
@@thecinnabar8442 Right now you’re my favorite channel cause we have very similar likes and I really enjoy your geography. Looking forward to what’s coming.
Very Nice Video. Recently, I refinished the furniture on my Grandfather's Stevens 1915 favorite. Denatured alsohol worked great because the finish was Shellac over a linseed oil base. If you did have a varnish finish, a paint stripper would be the only way to remove it. I did not sand the stock or the hand grip, I used a razor blade to gently scrape so as not to remove too much wood I refinished it with some brown mahogany stain followed the next day with some boiled linseed oil. Several days later, it took 2 coats of amber shellac the rubbed out with a green pad and wax. I came out so good I did my Arisaka the same way but left the dings. The old guns are precious I'm glad they are being restored and protected.
I used your your advice and it worked great on my Winchester
Great to hear!
Thank you for taking the time to share your skills and knowlege much appreciated
You're very welcome, Sean! Glad it helped.
I'm sure you've heard this before but at first glance you look like Johnny Crawford with that cowboy hat on. Good video. Enjoying the refinishing instruction👍👍
Thanks! I hadn't heard that before, but I grew up watching him in The Rifleman
Great video,
thanks a lot,
Looking forward to the next one
Take care
Thanks Hasan!
Great video, thanks for sharing.
Sanding and refinishing must have been as common in the old days as Polymer Pistol Stippling is now. I can not tell you how many people I've had to tell their Military Surplus rifle is worth less then what they think because some schmuck sanded the wood in the 60s. Great video Sir!
Sadly, it's all too common for older rifles to have been sanded and refinished at some point in their life.
Great tip, thank you! I've got an old pump .30-30 that will be getting this treatment now
Best of luck! Remember, if it doesn't come off with denatured alcohol, it probably isn't varnish and you'll have to use something stronger to take the finish off. Like paint stripper or oven cleaner.
Great video brother very educational
Thanks very much!
Thanks for posting and tip about denatured alcohol.
You're very welcome. Just remember that it only seems to work well on varnishes. Most other stock finishes need something stronger, like a paint stripper or oven cleaner. Thanks for watching.
Thank you Cinnabar, Great tip! Just what I needed for a nice old Stevens that someone before me had their way with......................Doc
Glad to help, Doc!
A old gunsmith showed me his way to strip gunstocks. Make a tray of tin foil large enough for your stock lay the stock in and cover it with lacquer thinner. Leave it in till the varnish softens and take a paint brush or even a stiffer brush and go over the stock until all varnish is removed from it. Once you take it out the thinner evaporates almost instantly. I have used this method many times with excellent results.
Thanks for the tip Shawn. I'll give that a try sometime.
does it have to be submerged? I take it you’re only doing one side at a time or the thinner is somehow thick enough to stay on the varnish?
I never realised that it would lift varnish. Thanks.
I once owned a 300WM Remington that looked like someone had dipped it in caramel syrup the varnish was so think.
I had intended to do it up, but a friend waved dollars in front of me when I needed them and I sold it at a moderate profit.
I'll try this method on a 1970s (I think) vintage Zastava I have. They were sold as Alpine Mausers here in Australia and I always wanted one, but never had the bucks.
I found a 243 one at a gunshow that needed a few repairs (the rear action screw sleeve was missing and the tang was squashed a bit.
Thanks again.
Whenever I need to remove a shiny finish that looks like varnish, I start with the alcohol. If it doesn't take it off, I'll then move onto something more caustic like paint stripper or oven cleaner. Best of luck with the Zastava. Thanks for watching!
@@thecinnabar8442 Some of the finish strippers sold is just denatured alcohol in the form of a gel.
I've used Formby's in the past and it was alcohol gel, but Formby's and others make various kinds of stripper, so you need to read the label for each flavor.
Thanks Mark for another great video. I'm about to do the same on a 92 carbine in 32-20. Mine has been oiled or waxed by the looks of it. Should be an interesting project. Look forward to seeing how the staining comes out.
Thanks Jason! Do you know if your 92 has gumwood or walnut stocks? I haven't been able to find any information on stains used on the gumwood stocks, so it'll be a real trial and error. I'm collecting several types of stains and dyes to try out. Fortunately, I have some pieces of gumwood veneer to use as test pieces, so I don't have to use the stocks.
@@thecinnabar8442 My 92 looks to have the same gumwood as yours. I have seen a few around but not sure about how readily is accepts staining. I have heard the Winchester shotguns traditionally had a reddish stain. But there doesn't seem to be any reference to the preparation or finish on the timber work in the factory, even in the Madis book.
We miss you Mark! Great video.
Thanks Brian! Hope everything's going well down there. Tell everybody hi for me. Wish I was there with you guys.
@@thecinnabar8442 will do. Isn't the same without you in the class.
@@randall4904 Either of you guys know anything about the Prescott gunsmithing school? -it's history, current standing, if its known for anything. The Lessen community college gunsmirhing program, from these videos, looks to be pretty top notch. Thanks
Sir. I enjoy your series. Very down to earth. On finishes. If alcohol cuts it , it’s not varnish. It is in fact a version of shellac. Most people don’t know the difference.
Oil finishes are a combination of natural oil, a solvent carrier and drying agent.
Varnish is a combination of natural oil, natural resin, a carrier and drying agent.
Poly euro thane is synthetic varnish based upon a synthetic resin.
All three of these finishes are similar in that and oil/resin is spread on a surface by the solvent, then polymerises into a solid coating that is stable to most solvents, including water and alcohol.
Shellac is a biological resin obtained from insect shell.
Lacquer is a synthetic finish similar to shellac.
Both shellac and lacquer do not polymerise but form a finish layer by simple evaporation of the carrier solvent. Thus they may be re-dissolved by the use of a similar solvent.
I hope this helps a bit. Old furniture repair guy salutes you. Fox out.
Thanks so much for sharing your expertise on finishes. That's very enlightening. I probably should have just said, "If it's shiny, try denatured alcohol. If that doesn't work, move on to a more aggressive stripper". One of the benefits of making these videos is that there are people like you who are willing to share your expertise.
@@thecinnabar8442
Since you seem interested I’ll elaborate a bit more on gun stocks.
Many stocks have been waxed at some point. Most were finished with oil in the bad old days. Oil is dull or “Matt”. Wax or shellac was used to sparkle them up to look like a glossy poly Weatherby back in the day. I use the following sequence.
1) clean with naphtha (aka lighter fluid). This will pull off the wax, gun oil, grease and finger oils. But not touch the other common finishes.
2) alcohol to remove flash coats of shellac or lacquer. A heavy lacquer finish built up of many layers may require lacquer thinner. Alcohol and lacquer thinner should not touch the oil and varnish finishes.
3) to remove the polymerised finishes you need a true stripper. Something like methyl ethyl keytone. Nasty stuff. A better solution is a cabinet scraper. Lightly peel the old finish off. Be careful and you avoid excessive sanding and you leave the pores filled. Only sand if you need to make a radical color change with penetrating stain.
Most of the guns you display were never sanded at the factory. They were smoothed with a sharp scraper then finished. You can scrape a stock in the metal, allowing you to keep the wood and metal even. You can keep a scraper off your metal, not so sandpaper. Sandpaper did not come into common use until the 1920’s. Fox out.
Thanks again for the fantastic information. I'd enjoy getting to sit and chew the fat with you about stock refinishing. You obviously have a lot of knowledge to share. One question - do you make your own scraper or is there a commercially available brand that you'd recommend?
@@thecinnabar8442
I have used both. You can get a cheap set from harbor freight. You need a hardened burnishing tool. I made mine from 1/2 drill rod. Run some 220 carbide paper up and down it to get some “tooth” on it.
I made a better set from some 1075 spring stock, 1/8 inch. I got it from Amazon. It’s in the knife blade section. I like a rectangle about 2x5. But if you need smaller just cut what you need, any shape you want.
There is another channel. Anvil. Mark is a good gun smith, a bit crazy, but then aren’t we all. He has a couple episodes where he restores a burn stock in one and an old milsurp stock in another. He demonstrates the scraper quite well. I agree with him it’s mostly overlooked today. But it was the backbone of the old military arsenals that fixed thousands of guns a year. He also has a real good take on hot rust bluing with steam rather than boiling water. Again an old arsenal trick to restore a hot blue job and touch up bald spots in the bluing. I’m no expert. Dad was a gunsmith. The apple did not fall too far from the tree. But I’m home/self taught. Most just putz on my collection these days. Just reply to one of these messages. I’m subbed to your channel. What I know your welcome to. Fox out.
Concerning the original color darkness on that original Winchester, remember these finishes darken with age. Thanks for the tips there. Also since Shellac is cut with Alcohol cutting the original chunk down to a useable consistency, it also will remove it from surfaces.
What do you mean when you say cutting the original down to a useable consistency?
Well done.
I've used a small copper wire brush and Acetone, worked a treat!
Thanks for the tip. I use lots of acetone in the shop. It's a great cleaner, but it doesn't have lubricating properties. I think a good lubricant helps to keep the steel or copper wool from putting small scratches in the finish. Of course, you should use the method that works for you and you're most comfortable with. Too many people think their way is the only way and every other way is wrong. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Have you ever done a flow up to this stock finishing? I’d love to see how you made it look like the classic darker one.
Great video. 👍👍
Thanks 👍
Very informative!👍🏾😀❤️🇺🇸
I really like the blonde look!
Thanks Jeffry!
I have a 92 with a gum wood stock and a layer of lacquer. The lacquer been used to try to hide the black marks that come with abrasions and knocks to gum wood. I would be interested to see if gum wood when stained would not show the black marks so prominently.
Back in the day a lot of folks used melted Lard to seal stocks!
Thank you
a mild steel scraper with a slight curve to the edge works wonders without hitting any wood
The only finishes available before varnish were linseed oil. Shellac, and wax. It is well known that guns were always done and continue to be done in boiled linseed oil finishes
Be neat to hear your hunting stories and performance with your 1895 35 Win. Just a thought. Thanks
Wish I had a good story from this year, but the bucks were hard to come by. There's been a bear hanging around behind the house lately. May have to take a poke at him with that 95 this spring.
Have you tried to lay it in a pan with the alcohol to soak for a few minutes? I am wondering if it would also be a less aggressive way to remove the gun oil that has soaked into many stocks? Reminded me of the early sixties when I would take my new guns and remove the factory finish to put hand rubbed Linseed Oil on them. Generally would do at least seven or eight coats over time using the bare hand to generate the warmth to embed the oil deeply into the wood.
I like to use a solution of water and potassium permanganate to stain wood. The more coats applied the darker it gets.
Great video, looking forward to more cleaning and upkeep as I inherited a large collection of firearms and enjoy cleaning and maintenance without destroying the Collecter value. I’ve used denatured alcohol and boiled linseed oil to clean the wood on the old military firearms. Just have to be careful with the rags also how do you feel about 0000 steel wool with light cleaning?
0000 steel wool is very good for light cleaning. Just make sure you soak it in denatured alcohol before you use it, as it usually has contaminates like oil in it due to packaging.
I use 0000 steel wool regularly on wood. I also use brass wool with gun oil for rust removal on metal parts. I try to practice patience and a light touch when using either. Thanks for watching, Ken!
I been look'n for a big bucket of that Elbow-Grease for a while now. A guy said its right next to the Easy-Button at Staples. On my way....
😆
Grab a roundtuit while you're at it!
Check the fellermight pile. Because....a feller might need it some day
Should be a lot of it around since it’s not used much by this generation lol
Great video as usual. I am not a fan of varnished stocks on rifles. It was sadly far too popular in the 1950s - 1990s. The newest trend is where people just try to make every modern sporting gun look "tacticool" as if it were issued to a navy seal. Honest patina and factory configuration is the best aesthetic for these fine classic arms.
I agree William. Never been in love with the shiny, plastic look on wood stocks. Hope to make this one look as close to "factory" as possible. Thanks for watching
I don’t like the looks of polyurethane finish either but in the very wet areas I live/hunt they definitely protect wood stocks much better than any blo or Tung oil or any other finish. Coastal Ore , Wa and Ak my truck/boat rifles are wet for long periods of time. Wood doesn’t hold up well in the wet , coastal marine climate. I have even finished stocks with blo or tung oil but put polyurethane on all wood that’s not visible , especially under butt plate and any other places that cut perpendicular to grain where moisture can get into the pores easily. Jus thought I would share this.
@@guaporeturns9472 I hear you. I am in my seventh decade all of which has been spent here in and around Ketchikan, Alaska where 170-190 inches of rain a year are common. Rusting is a huge problem of course but I still like the look of hand rubbed oil finish. Weatherby also has a look that is different but equally appealing to me. However when you get a finish like that it is hard not to worry about scratching it! Bird hunting on the saltwater flats in the fall was especially challenging in terms of gun maintenance. I had a gunsmith recommend just paint the whole gun but I only had one clunker I was willing to do that to. With the advent of stainless steel in the matt finishes and plastic stocks it was hard to deny their functionality but I was never a fan of the look. Back in the early days we used an actual "water pump" grease to bed the action to the stock for more waterproofing. Who would have thought back then that camouflage would be on pajamas and underwear? Military in the rear echelons sporting camouflage, just looks silly. All part of the plastic world look I guess.
@@douglasthompson2740 Spent ten years in SE Ak and in the Bering.. crabbing and logging. Put a lot of hard wear on in my Marlin 1895 45-70 and my Savage 99f .308. Hunted PoWI and Revilligigado and Baronof Islands but the biggest buck I ever got in AK was right over at the south end of the airstrip on Gravina. Huge 4x4 with eyeguards. Who would have guessed? Got some big ones on Baranof as well. I might move back some day.
@@guaporeturns9472 As a young fellow long before the airport and for my Dad before that the area where they built the airport was a favorite hunting spot. It was peaceful in those days great for when it was blowing too hard to get any further in a skiff.
Gum wood? As in black gum? That’s really interesting.
Did you ever make the next video for the restoration of the wood? I looked for it in your playlist and did not see it.
I'm still trying to find just the right combination to make that gumwood look like the original Winchester finish. I've bought about twenty different stains and continue to try different techniques when I get a little time to work on it.
Very curious to know your source for the information that gumwood was used on these rifles, and, in particular, the years you list for its use. Very interesting.
The best source of information on anything relating to Winchesters is the Winchester Arms Collectors Association forum on their website. The most knowledgeable experts and authors alive today frequent the forum and answer questions. If you go there and search "gumwood stocks", you'll likely find more information on the subject than you thought possible. Thanks for watching! I'm a subscriber to your channel as well.
@@thecinnabar8442 Thanks for the response and I'm glad your on board! Your channel is an interesting perspective on many things. Keep up the good work!
Will this method work with the cheesy red finish on Uberti 1873 lever action rifles?
Very good
Thanks, Errol!
wow that does look too easy to be true. thanks for the tip! do you think it’ll work on checkered wood, maybe with a scrub brush?
If it's a varnish, this should work on the checkered portions with a little patience. Other finishes will usually require something more aggressive, like paint stripper or oven cleaner. Good luck with your project.
I varnished all my old military rifles 30 years ago because I thought they looked better that way. Now I'll have to remove the varathane finish and oil the wood. I didn't know any better at the time. Oh well. I don't know if Varathane can be removed with denatured alcohol, but maybe. Paint remover is pretty harsh.
A sharp scraper will remove the varnish but not the wood. Link below.
So varnish or shellac....so denatured alcohol will remove varnishes as well?
I did not know about "gum wood" stocks. That sample did not look like black gum, could it be Tupelo or sweet gum? The denatured alcohol is also THE BEST charcoal starter! Soal a shop towel and place that on a small square of foil, set your charcoal chimmney and light the towel. No off odor or taste at all. I knew it would thin and remove shellack, but did not realize it would remeve varnish.
Thanks for the tip. Here in the Northwest, we don't know much about gum wood, but I did work with sweet gun briefly when I worked in the plywood industry. I would guess that the Winchester stocks were made of sweet gum.
Most likely a tinted varnish was used by Winchester. Stain would most likely cause the wood to look blotchy. I actually like to tint shellac with a reddish brown tint and then spray with an airbrush, after i did an initial sealing coat. Once i get the color I'm looking for, I go over the stock with varnish...not poly based. I'm currently experimenting with tinting my varnish with linseed oil tinted with Ratanjot powder (Alkanet root). Not as dark as the shellac but mixes easily with most oil varnished.
Thanks for the great tips, Chief! Working with this blonde-colored gumwood is going to be a whole new experience.
@@thecinnabar8442 I looked at my Win94 gum wood stocks and it looks like it was stained with a yellowish orange dye. That with a reddish brown toned varnish, as described above, would get you close to an original finish.
I guess this would work well on the uberti clones that come from the factory all varnished up
I would think so. It's worked on all the old varnishes I've tried it on. I've got a set of Uberti grips around here somewhere, because I made a pair of custom birdseye maple grips for my Cattleman. I'll give it a try on them next time I'm in the shop and let you know how it works.
@@thecinnabar8442 thanks that would mean a lot to me
Boy, that finish Uberti uses is tough. The denatured alcohol didn't begin to touch it. I then tried a chemical gel paint remover that works good on most other finishes. It took three cycles of that stuff to get the finish off. The stuff I used is made by Jasco.
@@thecinnabar8442 Thanks for the information will come in use!
@@thecinnabar8442 thank you! I have a 1873 replica from Uberti, that finish is awful. Would love to see a video of refinishing one of those!
There’s another guy I seen on UA-cam that uses a scraper.
I'm about to wood burn a rifle can I just sand it and revarnish ?
Dad always used to use 000 & 0000 steel wool to remove varnish
I like fine steel wool as well. If I'd known this one would have been as difficult as it was, I'd have used the denatured alcohol and steel wool instead of a rag. It would have got the job done faster. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@thecinnabar8442 I'm about to tackle a similar project. In another video a guy used oven cleaner. What are your thoughts on that?
I use a paint stripper on the more difficult to remove finishes, but I know several gunsmiths who use oven cleaner with good results. They're both pretty caustic, so be careful not to get them on your skin.
@@thecinnabar8442 I've used various methods of stripping finish off of wood and this is the first time I've ever heard of using oven cleaner going to look into it and give it a try sometime
Question for you. Will this method remove polyurethane? My grandfather coated a 1903 O3A3 and I would like to bring the stock to its original condition.
I don't believe it will. You will probably need to use something a little more caustic, like a paint stripper. I usually try denatured alcohol first and if it doesn't work, move up to something more aggressive. Thanks for watching Daniel.
jeffrey do you think it’s likely the case that most modern super-shiny factory varnish jobs are polyurethane? i need to remove thick varnish from a 90s era beretta shotgun with checkering
32-40 does look to have a bit more punch then the ol' trenta-trenta.
I haven't heard Trenta-Trenta in years. I dont know why it makes me laugh.
@@WasatchGarandMan HAHAHA- I know. Me too.
I just traded for a Winchester 94 made in 1956. Both stocks have been checkered at some point. Does this lower the values lot?
Of course, any alteration from original will affect the collector's value. How well it was done and if it was done in a Winchester pattern will determine how much.
Thanks. I really like the gun and am out deer hunting right now. I removed the for stock and for the life of me, I can’t get the band screw to start again?
Where is the next video?
Old gun stock where done like wood Cher. I'm a 4th generation wood worker.
🙂👍☕
Would it work on polyurethane?
Polyurethane is a type of varnish, so denatured alcohol should work on it. Some polyurethanes are tougher than others and may require scraping after it's softened up. When denatured alcohol won't take off a finish, I go to a chemical paint stripper.
What kind of alcohol?
denatured alcohol
Why not paint stripper?
Because paint stripper will remove all finish. Denatured alcohol will just remove the outer layer of shellac/varnish and leave the underlying original finish. If the denatured alcohol doesn't work, go to something stronger like paint stripper, MEP, oven cleaner, etc., but be prepared to lose the underlying finish as well.
@@thecinnabar8442 thank you , this advice will save me from future grief!
Don't darken that wood !!!! Just put on a finish. Don't darken that wood !!!!!!!!!!
Just use wood pant remover.
Use denatured alcohol to remove the varnish and leave the underlying original finish. If you want to use a more caustic chemical to take all the finish off to bare wood, use a paint remover. It all depends on your desired result.
Wouldn't it be easier to just get some paint remover put it on there and it'll be removed in 15 minutes
I always try the least caustic method first. If that doesn't work, I'll go to paint remover or oven cleaner.