"Messy" Kpop Opinions: 2022 Wrap Up/2023 Review
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
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which groups do you stan?: my ult groups are bts and red velvet. i casually stan and listen to several other groups.
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Spilled on the minors one. I miss having grown women in kpop and not middle schoolers
SAME. It was a part of why I was hype about Brave Girls going viral.
When have kpop companies ever not debut minors?
I really want more of the mature sound and concept. Like gfriends mago and apple or apinks recent stuff. These young idols definitely cannot pull off these types of concepts.
There's so many girl groups with adults in them. You just have to look up groups!! Here are some nugu/unpopular/underrated girl groups. Some are Disbanded, some still promote, some are pre-debut, but they are all adult groups. Also these are 2020 to 2023 groups.
Examples:
1. X:IN (They debuted today)
2. MuuTiVE (probably disbanded pre-debut)
3. P.O.A (Disbanded)
4. Onest (Debuted with Wisp)
5. D-Art (Disbanded, formed by a university I Think and the members are now in wisp also from the same university idk)
6. Ferry Blue (A university formed group)
7. LILLI LILLI (Promoting duo Group)
8. Maka' Maka (promoting)
9. Laonzena (Disbanded. They had a 1990 idol)
10. 2NYNE (disbanded duo group)
11. A-REAL (Debuted with Wake Me Up. Disbanded)
12. Keembo (re-debut of 2 spica members)
13. Me:us (re-debut of 2 nine muses members)
14. Lunarsolar (Disbanded)
15. Red Square
There's more, but this is a small list!!
There has never not been minors in kpop. Even in 2nd Gen. A lot the times, groups who did sexy concepts still had minors like AOA
Thank you for mentioning Sid Vicious. It's a little crazy how he's coming back into popularity and people forgetting/don't know how problematic he was in punk rock and the music industry as a whole.
I’d also like to mention the fact that the parents of the NewJeans girls have full trust in Heejin despite all the photos and things she has done. They’re 100% okay with their children being around that woman, but it doesn’t surprise me that there are parents like this. So many stage parents are like this. They don’t care bc their kid is famous
I can name so many stage moms and dads in Hollywood but I would be dead by the time I finish
@@staycsprinkles3777 Same like…Jennette Mccurdy just published a book about hers. Don’t even get me started on Brooke Shield’s mom.
After all, she is an industry legend, a true veteran behind most of the mega popular hits, including 2nd to 4th gen idols. Thats where the trust comes from. Kpop wouldnt be Kpop without her. Thats just a fact, wether people like or not how shes dealt NewJeans.
I really want Kpop companies to stop think about bts when making boy groups. I want boy groups to get back into the game. A boy group who had an impact like new jeans
This bro I need some new boy groups that are just..? Different?
@@insomniaxx4591 the bg that are unique are usually under small companies.
so stray kids. the most popular and influential 4th gen group that’s who ur looking for 🫶🏽
@@luvdept they are great but still not changing the game. They have been around since 2018. Don’t get me wrong good hits like gods menu, mihro and an amazing world tour. Compared to the girl groups scene, there hasn’t been as much impact from them or any boy group.
@@luvdept music wise they are songs are not that good lately .
I think the correlation with Twice's age and their nosedive with their digitals in South Korea compared to Blackpink and Red Velvet is somewhat true because unlike those other two groups, Twice used to have a large male fanbase and that fanbase dropped them when they got older and changed their concept. Fact of the matter is, female fans are more loyal and are the backbone of the K-pop industry. That's one of the main reasons Red Velvet has the longevity they have.
Yupppp. Men are men whether it's a romantic relationship or a fan-to-idol relationship...sad.
Shows that many men love young, immature and impressionable girls.
I bet those same Twice male fans have now gone to stan NewJeans, but will drop then when they hit past 25. What losers. Men like that disgust me.🤮
Regarding the Chaeyoung controversy, I need to vent. 1) Everybody is just talking about Chaeyoung, but it’s not just her. What about the person who took the photo? What about the other members, managers and other and staff who were around her that day? Did nobody recognize the swastika?? It boggles my mind. 2) as a Korean-American, it is really embarrassing when an incident like this happens. It makes the entire country seem like idiots. 3) K-pop companies really need to get their sh*t together. The markets in the US and Europe are significant for K-pop growth. If you’re running a business and want to expand in another country, the smart business decision is to research the target country and then train your employees about how to do business in that target country. This isn’t rocket science. It boggles my mind that every year, we continue to see inappropriate cultural appropriation, often the same issues time and again. I truly don’t understand why this continues to happen - it is just incompetence. In the industry I work in, I follow trade press every day to find out what is going on in the entire industry because it could have implications for our work and our clients. If I was running a K-pop company that is actively promoting in the West, I would make sure that there is somebody monitoring any controversies raised by international fans and that these issues are brought to the attention of upper management. I would make sure that there is a cultural training program that is required for everybody (idols, stylists, production team, artistic team, etc). Koreans also have this weird habit of thinking it’s cool to incorporate something American without doing further research (QAnon shirt, Jim Jones sample, etc). I remember going to stationary shops in Korea and seeing cards written in English, but the message was just gibberish. This still continues with English lyrics that don’t make any sense or that sound asinine. What they need is an industry-wide conference where companies can send their idols, stylists, etc to listen to different panels explaining cultural issues that they need to be aware of
And people act like the korean government isnt working with people from multiple countries, including Palestine? I saw a photo of restaurants and clubs with Hitler and Nzi writen in Hangul and they dont enforce any laws about this, I feel like its hidden on purpose, and recently I saw an article about how koreans will just buy shit bc it has english on it, even like a Yale University or MLB sweatshirt and they dont know what its for. The kpop industry is very structured and companies are very strict about what they put out, but they cant be half assed to make sure their employees wear appropriate shit. they work in the industry. theres no reason they shouldnt know this. their job is literally similiar to yours. What happened to marketing teams? are they only relevant domestixally?
I remember pointing out Chaeyoung's ingorance/lack of caring on several videos' comment sections and every single time I got lambasted because "Chaeyoung is Korean how could she know?" Bro, it's a world war. Everyone fucking knows what a tilted swastika is, even if their education is poor like Chaeyoung's apparently was. Also, I also blame parents for allowing their 10-13 year olds to start training. I get it, it's your child's dream and whatever but is it ever really worth it? It's gotten to the point where companies are requesting for auditioners to be born after 2000 or something and since everyone is training/debuting so young, we're at a risk of getting desensitized to it. I love NewJeans' music, but controversies surrounding how ADULTS perceive/talk about them is the exact reason why they shouldn't have been debuted so young in the first place. Recently, xikers debuted and I was surprised to find out that their youngest members are born in 2005, which is great bc at least they're 18 considering I was half-expecting them to be born in 2009 or something.
as far as I know k-netz also called her out because they obviously know
about the training thing, I think it's like 2006-2008 is the oldest age now. I was born in 02 and I'm barely an adult. I think the youngest year for some of these companies is like 2014 or something now?
Yess..and I'm gonna cry...theirs a kpop idol 2009..? She's 13 (baby monster) my age...I'm scared but luckily I'm 2010 but still wthhhh
@@katniss344 YESSS I SAW AN AUDITION AND IT SAID BETWEEN 2006-2013 ONLY WTH
@@katniss344 and it's hybe
Calling the Korean education flawed in this situation isn't necessarily correct because i have friends in Korea who studied there who are aware of Nazi Germany, imperial Japan and the atrocities committed. They're aware of the hakenkreuz too so it's more or less, the fact that k-pop Idols and companies are just ignorant
the current gg boom feels reminiscent of the 2nd gen. yes, there was a "big three"- 2NE1, wonder girls and snsd, but t-ara, kara, beg, 4minute, etc were on par with that sucess at points
TXT is the boy group that came into mind as the next boy group after BTS. Alot will come with "OH is because they are BTS little brother group and they are from Hype too!". That is getting super old now. Anyway, they are the most versatile where boy groups are concern. Cute, rock, ballad etc they have proven they are capable of doing all the genres of music and be successful. May not be at BTS level successful but successful to their level (4th gen) right now.
TXT is really one of the few boy groups I can name that I would say are the 4th gen front runners. Stray Kids to
I see them possibly having a similar level/trajectory of fame as shinee or seventeen, not exactly maybe the most popular but undoubtedly at the top and undisputedly good, loved by everyone just not as dividing/extremizing(?)
And seventeen and exo and straykids
I know I’ve seen a lot of people saying Twice charted poorly potentially due to the fact that they promoted the comeback in the U.S first and then came to Korea to promote. I just remember seeing a lot of theories that the Korean onces were upset about that but 🤷🏽♀️
yes for set me free specifically i know k-onces were mad about the lack of domestic promotions but their digitals have been on the decline for a while now. talk that talk was the best a twice title track has charted in a while and even then the highest it peaked on real-time charts was the top 20. twice's digitals have been on the decline for the past couple of years.
@@redvelvetsus this is true but what i find super strange is how well nayeons solo performed… why did Korean listeners love nayeon am but not twice releases
@@onikazcrown7454 like i said i think it’s their concept change. nayeon’s solo debut was more reminiscent of twice’s older sound and i think that’s why people liked it more
@@redvelvetsus also because Nayeon is one of the most popular Twice members
sm stans would never consider the hybe sm takeover simply bcuz of their rooted hatred towards bts.
☕
There won't be a holy trinity in fourth-gen and I think that's a good thing. This means that groups from the big three won't be the only ones to get the spotlight and gain success.
The big3 in third gen hadn’t much to do w their company and wasn’t this big stable thing as everyone is making it out to be, gfriend and mamamoo both had major claims to the titles. Even for boy groups first it was exo got7 and BTS later it became exo seventeen and BTS.
@@thngvbts5182 seventeen 💘
@@thngvbts5182 lmao gfriend and mamaoo debuted before third gen took off, but the big 3 ggs quickly fell into place because those companies still had the most power
@@staycsprinkles3777 lmao their debut had nothing to do w it:
-gfriend was huge until 2016 but it doesn’t devalue their relevance especially as they come from a nugu company;
-ioi would have easily taken red velvet spot if they weren’t a temporary group;
-mamamoo was underrated until gfriend was already past their prime.
All of them were picking and being considered during prime 3rd gen 2016/17, sure blackpink had just debuted but their debut wasn’t that big of a stabilizer cause their spot wasn’t the only one that was being questioned.
You completely disregarded that this is true even for the male big3, exo and maybe twice were the only one stable for the majority of the time out of both categories:
-got7 was considered big3 for years but got replaced during pick 3rd gen;
-BTS, even though they were always exo’s rival, weren’t acknowledged and respect until 2015/16;
-seventeen even coming from a bankrupt company was popular from the start but only got cemented as big3 around 2017 with don’t wanna cry.
For the male big3 only exo is from a big3 company and outside of got7 none of their other 3rd gen groups came even close, ikon or winner never even got a shot to be considered in the big3 even though they both had their hits and with NCT there’s a bigger debate over if they should actually be considered 3rd or 4th gen but for sure not one over if they are a big3 of the 3rd gen even though they would have the numbers for it. If we look at Korea alone the boyz had a bigger chance of becoming part of it than the yg’s groups in 2017/18.
@@thngvbts5182 It did have something to do with it. Gfriend and Mamamoo found their places before other popular groups and they found their niche other people werent doing and capitalized on it. Also gfriend was huge after 2016. Mamamoo hit big in less than 2 years. They peaked at 41 on Gaon Digital chart with Piano Man and even when Rough was popular, they got a PAK with you're the best, so no they werent underrated due to gfriend. If gfriend and mamamoo debuted after Blackpink AND TWICE, it would have been much harder to gain attention bc by that point 3rd gen was in full swing
I’m not surprised with minors in the industry bc of how many western singers and celebrities came on the scene as a child. All it is, is ageism and sexism. They want young kids bc they think over 20 is old and that women in their mid to late 20s are grannies. Even in the US I hate seeing child singers and actors being thrown into fame. So many of these kids have been sexualized and it’s gross. From the Olsen twins, Britney Spears, to Justin Bieber, to Millie Bobby Brown
As far as I know k-netz called Chaeyeong out as well, so I think idols should Genuinely GENUINELY stick to High School before anything else because this is MAD.
Elementary school should be enough to stick the message swastika=bad
spilled on the wendy one, people use us as a weapon instead of treating us as people and yet they see themselves as anti racist. and there are consistent traits that cause this too. if they're "ugly", have had a history of being bigger than other idols, etc etc. and it's obvious.
I really agree with the Wendy opinion, especially the notion about fake woke. I feel like people don’t genuinely care about social issues especially pertaining to racism, colorism, etc. and only use it as a weapon during fanwars to make their favorite idols look better. It’s so damn toxic and downright disrespectful for people to throw such heavy terms like racist at an idol just to win some dumb fanwar
I think there will be a fixed big 3 though it will only be clear towards the end of 4 gen.I mean people act like black pink,twice and red velvet never had any competition when you had popular groups like mamamoo,momoland,GFriend and pristin who could of been in the top 3 at certain points in there career
I thought the same thing-
Pledis did pristin so dirtyyyyyyy 😞💘
the thing is third gen group took longer to peak but we quickly knew who the big 3 were bc there were less girl groups, now theres more competition and people are constantly breaking records even if thyre not from a big company. i get what you said about consistency, but since the market is bigger I don't think something like a holy trinity works now
@@staycsprinkles3777 I think it will be more like 2 gen when there were way more successful girl groups but there was still a clear big 3.We will just have to wait and see who will be the most consistent and who will last longer
OMG UR ALIVE
My thoughts on the chaeyoung situation is that it’s a hot mess I can eye roll the qanon shirt because it isn’t world war 2 event it mostly deals with American politics (idk Korean politics so I don’t expect them to know American politics) and it was obviously a stylist choice but the sex pistol shirt is just wow it genuinely shows how uneducated people are but I’m not going to sit here an act like it’s shocking because ask the average American what the rising sun flag is and they won’t know either I just hope chaeyoung takes this lesson to educate herself because if twice wants to be a global group they gotta know more then just their own history
Totally agree coz I still don't know the rising sun flag thing i just know it's bad in Korea (is it in Korea or Japan )
The rising sun flag is from Japan and got implemented in Korea during the time that Japan took over Korea and enslaved all the women and killed a lot of men.
@@katelady1370 ohhh so it was Japan dat invaded Korea ok thanks u made that short and understandable
@@katelady1370 exactly. Like it's info that you learn in world history class. Does no one pay attention to anything in school??
@@oliveb. you can look at the Florida curriculum and see unless you take an advance history class (which is a minority) you won’t be taught about it sadly I have the pleasure of being an IB (which is an international program) so the whole entire point is that we focus on all sides of history but there’s only less then a hundred IB students in my class so majority of everyone takes a standard history class sadly
In response to the 2nd opinion, I think TxT is that boy group for now at least in Korea. They’re still charting on Vibe and Melon top 100 more than 2 months after Sugar Rush Ride dropped.
The Boys Planet group is also showing huge potential in Korea but I’m not sure how many international fans they’ll have.
w boys planet they do have a lot of international viewers and voters but a good portion of the fandom prioritize Korean trainees rather than non-Korean ones, so I feel like it’s when the finale line up drops next Thursday it will show which international fans will stick w them and who would drop like how they did to kep1er
Yess and seventeen 💎 so many carats and I think Japan too no I dont think I knowww they sold out their Tokyo dome tour and I think they charted 1st on something but it's really important, and yess they got 4million pre-orders in 12 days and they say if they get to 10-20k more they will be the most pre-order kpop idol in history, I don't know if they surpassed it but they probably did and last year face the sun album got 2million sales on 1-2 weeks and yes let's not forget the sold out concerts literally under a minute 😭 😞
On the Wendy one why do people feel comfortable sending death threats to Wendy or mocking her ed yes she’s done shitty things but that doesn’t justify wishing death on someone or joking about her mental health
Min Heejin is entitled (she is a former SM employee that explains her lack of humility) she takes credit for EVERYTHING and wants the world to know that SHE created New Jeans... Saying that Hybe it's not probably the main reason NJ got famous so fast and got all the deals they're getting rn... Don't get me wrong, they're talented but let's not act blind because if they Debuted in a much smaller company without all the resources being on Top won't be that easy for them.
Right. If they would’ve debuted without readers and concept photos the way they did, they would’ve flopped.
Why does that piss you off 😂😂it's not a competition between sm and hybe. We don't care about that😂. Company stans are weird children 😂
Stray Kids are very successful, and they are truly self written and produced, from DAY 1! They've never tried to fit into the mainstream, and they're a bg that doesn't sound like everyone else. So much so that antis call them noise music, but that hasn't stopped their continued growth. They are #5 in Hanteo history for album sales at only 5 years since debut, and they have a comeback next month. Their last album has sold over 3 million copies. Their writing/producing team of 3RACHA are all full members of KOMCA, Han Jisung being the youngest full member at 22. Given membership at less than 5 years from debut. You can check other big idols and you'll see how prestigious that is! Just because they don't get recognition doesn't mean they aren't highly successful. They've sold over 17 million albums so they're doing great.
Pls don't mention stray kids it's noise music
@@GgGg-su8nq pls act like an adult and don't make my comment about you. The fact you call it noise music tells me that you haven't listened to their discography, and just want to be a hater. Embarrassing. This isn't about you. Get a hobby. Move on
@@GgGg-su8nqyour just proving the OPs point lmao
Stray Kids has been dominating charts and keeping up just fine look at their 2022 accolades they just never get the recognition they deserve as a popular talented 4th gen leader and I don't get that...
isn’t txt the most popular 4th gen bg?? i don’t even stan them but that’s what i thought. i also think ateez was considered the top 4th gen bg. my favorite 4th gen bg is actually tempest
About the Wendy portion people have been making accusations about irene too after her scandal claiming she “slapped” the stylist and making up other stuff to make her seem like an abuser. Those people make stuff up to use it as a weapon for fan wars and don’t care at all about holding the idols accountable they only care about having a good clap back when arguing with the fandom of the idol
As an Indian, i have to say that there's more to Chaeyoung wearing that Sid Vicious shirt with the swastika. Yes the swastika resembled asian religious swastikas, but the whole situation is more like a western celebrity wearing the rising sun symbol for aesthetics because they're ignorant. In India atleast (a country that was also directly affected by the second world war because our colonisers forced our citizens to participate and stole our grains to feed their soldiers, causing famines and death) we still aren't taught too much about the nazis. We are told about them during history lessons but we aren't really taught in depth about their symbols and propaganda. Still, Chaeyoung deserved to make a better apology considering what her fellow member Tzuyu had to go through when she had to apologise to Chinese fans for simply stating that she's Taiwanese. I think the company still takes their east asian market more seriously than their western market if they think such a simple apology will do anything
i honestly dont understand how some onces can just... ignore this... If any of my favs (red velvet) worse a nazi symbol I would not know how to feel. like, i would not jump into her denfese the second and I would honestly not care for them or look at them the same way anymore
I'm gonna say something low-key controversial, but ONCE, don't hold their faves to the same standards, and they pick and choose how to call out. They will terrorize other idols who have apologized sincerely but are quick to sweep their own shit under the rug, lol. If it was someone they hated, you'd see ktuber videos about this for years.
I'll never forget how k-once were exposed years ago for having a group chat where they said xenophobic shit about Lisa and the first thing they said was "it'll blow over soon, we just have to keep quiet". Yeah, f the most of them.
No cuz I saw people making jokes about chaeyoung and wendy, saying that wendy gave chaeyoung the n_zi shit. I may be a black ot4 reveluv but I hate how people think that just because wendy was racist, that they are allowed to say whatever they want about her, make fun of her sbs situation, etc. It makes me feel uncomfortable because I'm starting to feel like most of these people are just being fake and performative and hide behind racism so they can feel vindicated for making "jokes" and d3@th threats towards her
Literally Wendy has done fucked up things but y is she the face of problematic idols as if other idols haven’t done worse shit. I don’t mean to deflect bc what Wendy did was disgusting but she’s not as bad as other idols
Seventeen has been doing very well lately and as are TXT. So boy groups are still relevant. Having said that though, the 4th gen girlgroups are the strongest they've ever been and the healthy competition can only make kpop even more relevant today.
BTS threw a monkey ranch in the kpop machine which heavily relies on formula, predictability, numbers, and not creativity or art. At least as far as the male groups are concerned. Regardless of what kpop fans think, regardless of whether they think male groups are doing greet overseas. For as long as kpop is a top down total management model, what those at the top matters, and the top answers to each of their shareholders, and their shareholders want BTS.
On the opposite spectrum is kpop fans called non charting but boundary changing music “flop” because they don’t chart. They behave exactly like those kpop executives and shareholders. Pushing kpop further away from music while at the same time complaining about kpop isn’t about music anymore.
"and their shareholders want BTS" -oh that's such a great point you made! And considering that the boy group structure is not quite favoured by the GP power as it is with girl groups, their idea revolving around making a new BTS is always at it's strength.
Either a contender to BTS, or just like BTS.
What I see with girl groups is their sheer power of going viral without a big3 or known company support, (I've although kakao is under their feet, StayC, Fifty Fifty, Brave Girls back when they went insanely viral) simply on the basis of creating trends. Trendy sounds, catchy beats, hooks, viral dance routine, immense controversy during debut and voila! A GP favoured girl group is born.
But the disadvantages that come with it. The shift between girl groups and their popularity among GP is changing extremely rapidly.
Also, there's always this weird thing I've noticed, every gg that goes viral has a big æs controversy surrounding it. (I've Wonyoung hate train, Aespa AI concept discourse, Nmixx mixx pop music discourse, Nmixx plagiarism, Lesserafim b*llying controversy, Lesserafim minor debut discourse, New Jeans minor age debut discourse, Min Haejin this that and whatever.. you see where I'm going)
Ever since 2020, girl groups have been topping and falling all over the place. Aespa had a big debut. Right a month or two after Aespa, StayC debuted with a monster rookie song that went immensely viral. After StayC debut, Kep1er and Nmixx took the big spot, right after Nmixx, came a big banger that was Ive, then taken over by much bigger Lesserafim debut, just a month or 2 later New Jeans made it to the top biggest than ever before. There's Billie, and Fifty Fifty now. After them there will be Baby monster.
People trend them, eat the music like crazy, pull up insane numbers, make them viral, cry over the controversies, defend their IT girl for a while, and then when they make comeback or 2, people get bored, "fall off", say "they missed/didn't understand the assignment" and throw away the gg for the next big thing in market.
People are not letting a girl group marinate for a minute at all. I think that's what is disadvantageous with the GP support.
Boy groups on the other hand, aren't driven by GP like that, so they take a better hand at atleast staying stable at whatever position they have.
But the lack of creativity with boy groups, the hyperfocus on BTS, and money structure revolving only around ~how much BTS or non-BTS can this group be?~ is slowly taking the boy group status away from k-pop.
The only relevant boy groups that are seen on charts nowadays are TXT, Seventeen and Stray kids occasionally. Out of which TXT is the only promising group when it comes to artistry and creativity.
You are too smart😢
Kpop industry is obsessed with bts , all the companies, fans,haters ,all kpop stans ! Everyone and their mamas are obsessed with them
I'm glad HYBE stepped back from buying SM, so when the company and their artist start to go downhill because of KAKAO they won't blame HYBE and somehow BTS for it...
Oh trust me, they'll bring BTS into it some way or another.
But the only thing I resent is the takeover was supposed to be advantageous for artists under SM and they're going to get the bitter end of the stick because of kakao.
@@moonchild7425 can someone tell me what is kakao
yal must be hybe stans. Kakao is god. Stan IU and IVE ! Also stan kakao new artists; Taeyeon, aespa, and more!
@@loganyoshi3889 Kakao is good? Let's see if they are when they started ruining every SM artist
@@aloowalia2849 is one of the biggest Corporations in S. Korea, they own many businesses (not related with music) but they also own many kpop companies. According to what I read, SM sold all their idols music rights, which means Kakao owns all of them, they also own Melon one of the biggest music platforms in SK and they (Kakao) are the reason why years ago the music of many Korean artist were deleted form Spotify because they didn't renew the contract on time when SP started operating in Korea
Too bad the boy groups been releasing the same nct copy pasta song and mv. NONE have even tried to copy BTS songs.
and it is funny bcs it was black kpop stans that always use non-contextual racism against kpop idol they don't like. especially SM stans/NCT stans or loona stans.
Wat
You're so right with the 'debuting children' part. I'm born the same year (slightly older) as Hyein and let me tell you that I cannot fathom being in her shoes.
I 100% agree that debuting minors in kpop is wrong but I guess I get confused about the recent outrage surrounding it due to New Jeans when idols as young as them have always been debuting. In international age, Taemin was 14 when Shinee debuted in 2007, multiple members of Girls Generation were under 18 when they debuted in 2007, Jungkook was 15 when BTS debuted in 2013 (Taehyung and Jimin were also technically minors since they didn’t turn 18 until October and December of 2013 respectively) , Yeri was 16 when Red Velvet debuted in 2014, 3 members of Twice were underage in 2015, and so on. The reason I listed out years of debut is to show how long this has been going on and how it’s not a new trend. Again, to make it clear, I’m not saying it’s okay to debut minors because it’s been going on so long. I don’t think minors should be debuted. I guess I’m just curious as to why people are acting like this is some new trend and that old Kpop groups never debuted minors when they certainly did.
The *oldest* members of New Jeans are 18. The rest of the group is ALL minors.
The *youngest* member of BTS was 15 while debut. That's the difference.
The rest of the 6 members were already 18+ by the end of 2013. The oldest member was 21 during debut.
Yeri is the *youngest* of the group. So is Tzuyu. Only 3/9 members were minors while debuting.
Here the industry is debuting an entire group full of minors lmao.
Newer groups have idols as young as 13-14 years old, and moreso, they're not the youngest of the group to make it alright either. The average age range of debut has become 14-16 years old.
It's definitely moving younger and younger.
@@moonchild7425 The eldest in wonder girls at the time of their debut was 17/18, so it’s not just 4th gen
@@moonchild7425 that’s very fair. You’re right, it’s definitely getting younger overall. When I made the comment, I was aware that all of the members I listed were the youngest and that most of the other older members in the group were at least 18. I guess my point was that though I understand people are upset lately because the average age is getting younger, it’s not like minors just as young as New Jeans haven’t been debuting for decades. Especially when you consider training periods, a lot of members who were adults at debut in the groups I mentioned were kids when they started training. For example, I believe Jihyo of Twice was like 12?? When she started training lol. So even though she was an adult at debut she’d already been a part of the kpop industry as a kid. That’s just one example. I would guess majority of idols, no matter the generation, probably started training as minors.
TLDR: I think minors in Kpop has always been a problem, not necessarily a new one. But the fact the average age at debut is getting younger lately is 100% true and should be addressed.
Again, I agree with your point :) at least in older groups, more than 1/2 the members were adults compared to today where it’s usually mostly minors or people freshly 18 haha.
@@theresam.1121 Yeah exactly. Ofc there's always been minors debuting in kpop and that list can go way back to the 2nd gen. But the main issue here is the growing average range of groups debuting minors + Average age of groups getting younger and younger.
Because that would mean they started training even early. And how early can you actually start practicing if you're debuting at 14 imagine.
K-pop has always played it safe by debuting young, considering other industries and their struggles with income extracted from artists as they mature, grow old, get into relationships, get married and even drop off music. There's hardly so far you can go to keep your fame and personal life on the brighter side at the same time. Unless you're Beyoncé or smth.
Other industries also have the bitter end of the stick, since their artists debut at an older age where it would take no time for them to figure their personal stuff out, get married, get children, that would hinder the schedule they had early on. Even when they deserve to do all of these.
K-pop took the benifit of it by debuting as young as possible, shaping them and their schedules around the industry time clock, the 2 AM music show runs, so that they've got plenty of time till these idols get older and actually start focusing on their personal life. Till then, the industry would've profited out of them tremendously already. And at a point, there could come an instance where they wouldn't even need them anymore. In short, replacements. Disband and bye bye.
Both ends of this discourse have their fair share of artist mistreatment, and both industries will fall to their faces eventually sooner or later, if they're not able to figure out a way through it. Rare cases happen when young artists grow successful early on, they don't have to worry about schedules while focusing on personal life at an older age. But who would take those chances? Instead, play the game of young, profit the most out of it while it's relevant, when it starts declining, replace, rinse and repeat!
And k-pop industry will fall face on, so hard with this technique someday.
I think TXT and SKZ are really fit to be the 4th gen leaders
What's your take on the recent fiasco of jimin and billboard ? Like the way billboard is just changing rules its seems too much..
I mean if we are talking about bgs popularity in sk, if bight promotes next txt comeback at least as good as srr they have chances to attract gp, plus boy's planet are coming soon, they are already charting on melon before even debuting, so who knows. internationally there are so many popular bgs like skz, ateez
I think she means a group that can be equally popular and successful in and outside of Korea, get PAK and also chart high on BB and have good streaming numbers. The majority of bg are more popular outside and you can see that on Korean charts since none of them have achieved PAK or have a hit in SK, also none of them have charted high on Spotify US/Global, Apple Music or have a BBhot100 entry... They just have sales due to their fans mass buying and some of them do good on tours but just that.
I swear any time Wendy opens her mouth fans are just waiting to catch her out which is so annoying cause all they do is make up rumors or take something she says out of context on purpose.
And there’s too many girl groups debuting so I highly doubt there would be a “top 3 gg” in 4th Gen cause it would be too complicated for fans to collectively agree on who should be in the top 3 , especially cause as soon as a new gg debutes the ones before are quickly neglected by fans.
I feel like the closest bg to being in the top 3 bgs for 4th gen is definitely TXT.. TXT has it, fans, talent, popularity, marketing. SKZ is upto some extent a good competitor for being the like the biggest 4th gen bg as well but.. Other than them, i can't think of anyone.
You guys always want to claim that no one cares about boy groups but 4th gen boy groups have way more fans than the current popular girl groups who solely depend on the general public so I don't think it matters. Eveyone will forget about these girls once a new trendier girl group debuts while all the 4th gen boy groups will last for years since they actually have a fanbase.
Even most bts solos are flopping in skorea the gp just does not care about boy groups
definitely think they are underestimating the bgs that are out there already, Stray Kids specifically, as well as The Boyz, TXT, ATEEZ, NCT and a couple others. All of which are growing organically both in and out of SKorea. the only ones that are really trying to be 'the next BTS" are the HYBE groups b/c of the pressure their own label puts on them. the others are just trying to be themselves, and its the media that can't get over it.
@@gracelakamara Flopping? Reality check and a dictionary needed here
with the 4th gen we're starting to see girl groups catch up to boy groups in terms of fandom power. boy groups fanbases are becoming less and less impressive since their female counterparts are building strong fanbases as well AND they're actually charting well.
Why do y'all have to make it seem like she said something bad or shady.. There was a clear concern towards boy group status in those statements.
Boy groups have never been favoured by GP as much as girl groups are.
And dw, BTS soloists are doing much better than any girl group, boy group or whateva in SK or elsewhere or whereva. They're fawcking BTS be frfr.
When it comes to the Chaeyoung situation, I find that the UA-cam videos tend to be more rational than various written comments and posts…or, at least, the videos I’m exposed to are rational.
I like Chaeyoung; at this point, I’m not convinced that she’s a far right anti-Semite. But on the other hand, it’s about impact, not intentions. The timing of those shirts are so bad for so many reasons, but the biggest one, imo, is the rise in anti-Semitic attacks in recent years. Just a few months ago, two major celebs (Kanye West and Kyrie Irving) would add fuel to that fire and empower known hate groups like the neo-N@zis and the Black Hebrew Israelites.
IVE still going mega strong
Set me free is one of my favourite comebacks by Twice and I’m loving the concept change. Idk why Korean fans don’t like it as much 😔
I can excuse qanon because I'm not American and i never heard about it until the shirt scandal but Nazism is something that affected the world as a whole so saying Koreans are ignorant when they arent is, like you said, infantilizing them and basically calling them idiots and bigots when that isn't really the case
Also. Since I'm not American, whats the difference between KKK and qanon?
@@lakshmikrishnan6376 Google is free. Google is your friend.
@@lakshmikrishnan6376 kkk is openly against black people and other minorities being in america. they are violent. qanon is this like closeted racist group in america using patriotism as a mask for their racism. they want also hate minorities being in their country.
@@lakshmikrishnan6376 the KKK( Klu Klux Klan) is a hate white supremacist group that targets, African Americans, even Jews, etc. They do awful things, like murders a whole racial group, trust me, horrible things. They wear white hoods and capes. Pretty much founded I think after the civil war. I recommend looking up some educational videos on it to get a more understanding. This group was founded in the United States I think.
Chaeyoung was my bias when I first got into twice(I was a red velvet and mamamoo stan but then started expanding my music) then it became dayun but even still I liked chaeyoung but this...I actually wanted her to get some flack for this and usually I'm like protect kpop idols but I feel like she should have been educated on this matter and tbh it doesn't seem like she cares...I still like twice but she's definitely not my favorite anymore...and this is coming from a Christian
I disagree w some of your points but i respect the way you express it. I also dont like minors debuting. However, im not going to say it's the responsibility of just the companies. Because lets be real, all companies in the world follows the money trail. Kpop stans are notorious for calling people in their twenties "hags". Which is a derogatory & ageist term. Kpop stans have the huge tendency to prefer younger idols. YG's Babymonster is going to get a strong debut, and people wonder why companies are still debuting minors when the money is coming in, it's because kpop stans will still prefer young over old whether they like to admit it or not.
I think twice downfall in Korean charts reason might be bcz of there lack of promotion in Korea that cost k-once to feel betrayed . Also the concept change I believe is another reason.
P1harmony…y’all will REGRET sleeping on them !!
i counldnt agree with the boy group one as i think that the reason is because of groups like txt and stray kids who are fighting with the world to be the best not just kpop. stray kids maxident sold 3 million copies and they had two albums in the most sold albums in in the world. yes thats the wrord i am talking about. just because girl groups create buzz doesnt really mean shit. success for a group is only determined by album sales and tour sales not botting streams in spotify
Exactly!
i beg to differ, selling albums is great and important in terms of financial success but anyone can mass buy and most bg fandoms do. the reality is that charts are not consistent with the album sales for 99% of boy groups. how are you selling 3 million+ albums yet you haven't charted on bb hot 100 or on korean real-time charts? and with the 4th gen we're no longer seeing ggs fall behind in terms of album sales. ggs are starting to sell significantly better and it's only a matter of time before they catch up to bgs album sales. then bgs selling 2-3 million albums won't be nearly as impressive because girl groups are doing that and they're charting well too. success it determined by both sales and streams, and girl groups currently have both.
@@redvelvetsus i get it but they charted in billboard 200 . Did any of the girl group chart in billboard 200? What streams are you talking about ? Yt views are all in favour of the bg. Total streams in Spotify is also more than that of gg.
that's what's i'm saying bgs are still doing good even if there's not as many prominent bgs there's still txt and skz that are some of the biggest groups rn
@@lisalane69 respectfully charting on the billboard 200 is only impressive if you’re charting the everywhere else as well. they chart on the bb 200 because fans mass buy yet when it comes to charts that rely on streaming they’re nowhere to be found.
I think its easier for girl groups to excel than boy groups because they tend to be more iconic. I dunno why but think of group like Spice Girls, TLC, Girl's generation, blackpink and more. But boy group its just One Direction and BTS finish
I honestly don't know about the swastika
Boyz 2 Men and Backstreet are also iconic lol
not to defend chaeyoung bc how are you going to look at a symbol that is known for causing hate and not research into it, but apparently she thought it was the buddhist symbol bc there is a restaurant or smth that is right in front of JYP that looks really similar to the *azi symbol the difference between the two is a 45° turn so it kinda makes sense that she didn’t think much of it but she still should put a lot more thought into it, considering it cost $500. also this is coming from who practices judaism.
The comments about 4th gen boy groups here😭 op is right and you guys know it damn well but just can’t accept it cz you bitter😭 BTS have monopolized the boy group market by a mile than anyone else out there!!! Which is a pro and a con to the market but especially a con if we see it from an industry point of view!!! The boy group market revolves around BTS only!!! Every company wants their version of Namjoon, their version of Jhope, their version of Jin, their version of Taehyung, their version of Jungkook, their version of Jimin and their version of Yoongi!!! And let me not start on concepts and musical sound cz that’s not going to end😭
I remember someone saying that the era of bg domination ended with BTS and I'm starting to believe them (plus Bigbang that are still doing numbers) TXT actually charted well this comeback so maybe in the future they'll get better but for now, the only one I think has a chance is Ador's new bg, they may be a game changer. If not, we'll have to wait for 5th gen cause the girls have this gen locked down, and it may take a long time for a new bg to truly captivate the gp, the same way ggs in Korea and Japan once upon a time lost their popularity and only bgs were thriving. It's a cycle I guess.
I really agreed with everything specially the Wendy one. It starts to be really irritating. Netizens started to being narrow minded and make everything "problematic" even if there whole personality is the problematic. And they just don't know how to shut up. And always need to talk. If I was in front of them I'll probably slap there faces to make them shut up xD
Literally agree with everything. Companies should definitely stop debuting children, but unless people stop supporting those groups that probably isn’t going to happen. I find it strange when people complain about minors in kpop but then they still stan newjeans. If you support the groups nothing will change
12:07 Im so happy you brought this up. I find it saddening people we're trying to use the "she just likes to dress edgy" as an excuse for her wearing that shirt. Even if it didn't have the Swastika on it the fact she wore a SID VICIOUS shirt is questionable. Trying to "dress edgy" is not a good excuse for wearing a Sid Vicious shirt, as that supports the abuse and problematic behavior he displayed while alive.
Idk if its twice's concept i actually think its over exposer twice have been more active then red velvet and blackpink I'd actually say last year was there least active year too much of anything is bound to get tiring as for why nayeon was successful its bc ppl waited so long for twice to get solos so of course it was a hit (thats just my take tho great video and thanks for speaking out abt this wendy thing bc nobody else is talking abt it)
I'm sorry but I agree on everything you said but who on earth actually researches on a person on the shirt they want to buy. Maybe she should because she is famous??? I don't know
Yea at this point SM deserves all the bad stuff happening to them. Clearly they don't want money, they don't want business. They want their infinite system only and that's all there is.
This has aged like the finest of wines. You truly saw the future with MHJ. Now if you could slip me some lottery numbers, I would greatly appreciate it. 😊
11:07 7,151 languages in the world and she chose to speak FACTS
4th gen has txt , stray kids who are doing great as boy groups and I don't find many similarities of them with bts
id like to say that the nazi symbol is a hakenkreuz. thats the name for it
twice needs a JYP made song their last comeback that went well...was the last one he made for them
i'm genuinely confused cause aren't txt and skz some of the biggest groups rn? yes ggs are creating more buzz but saying there's no relevant bgs besides bts is just wrong. skz is one of the biggest groups in kpop rn and that's not gonna change anytime soon. it's just not true to say there's no prominent bgs cause there is you're just not acknowledging them. i'm a gg stan and i still know about multiple 4th gen bgs that are extremely popular. not even just 4th gen either. i understand not keeping up with bgs but you can't simply say there's no relevant bgs cause there clearly are
People don’t consider SKZ because they can’t chart in Korea well.
@@TheMusicBoxMashups they can tho?
@@yeon_berry22 no dear their charting is really bad in korea.
@@saleekaferdz1066 ok? charting isn't everything skz is still really popular i don't understand how y'all think not charting is the same as not being popular.
@@yeon_berry22 skz is really popular I even hear about them a lot before checking out the group. And they are really popular internationally and people say they don't chart well in Korea I hope it changes soon as domestic support is really needed in kpop groups. But they are more popular internationally which most kpop groups can't relate. And boy groups are still popular out there it just that they will always be compared to BTS and it's getting annoying a boy group literally can't just stand on it's own without some people bring out how BTS is much better, like BTS is amazing but please let other boys group shine too they are not BTS but their own person.
10:11 south koreans probably study second world war focusing on the impact that the japanese ocupation had. i don't know if we are being a little bit occidentalist assuming that everyone has studied x or y. maybe we are overestimating the educational system of every country (+ the academic interest of idols), because in my case i know practically nothing about asian history. why should asians study about western if we, as westerns, don't get to study anything about the east (at least, in my country)?
i know we're talking about a world war and i think that everyone should know about what happened because it's basic history, but i'm really curious about the education gap between countries. it reminded me of the case of some idol wearing imperialist japanese symbols. how can someone not know about that things?
* I'm not defending her because "she's from korea", it's just interesting to me seeing how some idols have shown big gaps in their education
This is intresting I'd like to add two cents on this as well
Chaeyoung apparently passed with 10 days of attendance from high school which is an art school again... This solely goes to show why idols shouldn't debut as kids.. and i hope this also brings companies to take symbolism more seriously and atleast have idols peak through symbols and educate them on this
Maybe because I missed you but you should've called this the right opinions. I agree❤❤❤
Enhypen is a new bg and is more successful then any gg. What are you talking about. Almost every boy group has more subscribers than girl groups.
Treasure too. Almost all popular boy groups are more popular than popular girl groups
YAYYYY I MISSED U 😭
We understand children shouldn't be idols but with how they treat older idols and younger idols shifts with the stans 'love for there idol' and they want money and sadly stans aren't paying for older idols. They follow the stans and when stans stop selling out child idol CDs then they'll change their mind
You lost me when you said making groups based on bts !!!!! No no kpop is way better way wider just to focus on bts they want their fame but not be like them they aiming for group with concepts like SM groups such as Exo as quality.
The only 4th gen gg we can give 1 of the 3 spots to as of now is gidle. They debuted in 2018 in cube that handles group comebacks horribly - but unlike the other gg that were just attractive for 2-3 years they constantly grew until they got 3 consecutive comebacks with perfect all kills in their 5th to 6th year.
For Ive, NJ, Le sserafim we have to see if they get the same consumer treatment as Itzy, Stayc. Aespa might bounce back if they can keep their Spicy success in korea with the next cb.
I dont know about the swastika shirt, but the QAnon shirt was on her during Official Promotion, so that came from a stylist..😬 literally... jyp...🤢
Many many groups that are nothing like BTS I kno cause I love BTS but also like groups different from them, ENHYPEN, TXT and stray kids for example for me personally have amazing music and are different from BTS but for some reason people have just really been getting into girl groups, but I don’t think anyone is copying BTS
my opinions on these opinions (lol)
1. 110% agree. if a rookie gg has even one title track that isnt loved as much as their others, they lose massive amounts of popularity and people move on to the next fresh thing. an example of this is kep1er, itzy, stayc, gidle just to name a few.
2. agree. the only memorable 4th gen bgs are txt and skz. although ive seen a rise in ateez's popularity recently.
3. again, agree lol. twice are most known for their cutesy, happy, girly concept and their new concept just feels like they came 5 years late to the times in 2018 when EVERYONE was doing the concept that twice have at the moment. also you explained the decrease in their popularity perfectly.
4. again agree, dont really have to write a para on how i agree but i just do lol. its obvious that wendy had a problematic past but its also obvious that she has changed, learnt and matured.
5. so so so so soooo agree. they have had 2 eras and have had controversies for both of those eras and their upcoming comeback has already sparked their potentially biggest controversy yet, i hate that woman.
6. agree, aespa used to be one of my fav ggs before sm decided to scrap their comeback and have one 10 months after girls. sm management is horrific. its been nearly 8 months since red velvets last comeback and i cant see them coming back any time soon.
7. agree, as a polish person there is NO excuse to chaeyoung wearing a swastika tshirt FOUR times and onces defending her and saying if you dont support her anymore youre a 'fake once' it makes my blood BOIL. theyre acting like shes a child that hasnt gotten an education just because she debuted at 16.
8. AGREE AGREE AGREE. its so damaging and harmful. ive been saying this since i got into kpop. a trainee on r u next is TWELVE and born in 2011. shes younger than my little brother and thats saying something. 6/7 baby monster members are minors. really putting the baby in baby monster.
you explained all of this really well and got your point across really well
I thought your last year opinion on Wendy would age badly. Hoped to, at least, it just doesn't seem it's ever gonna die down.
She started trending the day Chaeyoung's shirt fiasco came out, I've seen people claim she said the n-word. It just seems that it's okay to fabricate whatever shit just to drag her, when she's been quiet for YEARS. They really do use her as a cover up.
I don't have anything to say about Wendy and how black kpop fans feel about her cuz it ain't my place. But I gotta agree at this point it's just beating a dead horse and doubling down on an easy target. Atp Wendy could keep her head down and just shut up and some ppl would still be on her case if she breathes wrong. And what rlly gets me is some of these fans have equally, or even more, problematic faves that are still doing ignorant shit but they don't take the time to re-examine their faves behaviour and hold them accountable too. Like if they treat Wendy one way they better bring the same energy to their problematic faves too. But no, it's easier to virtue signal and hold Wendy's feet to the fire cuz they prolly don't even like her in the first place. I feel like it derails the focus from having the larger discussion of the rampant racism within the kpop industry
I feel like people try too quickly to determinate the next big X, like Blackpink wasn't the biggest GG until D4 and what followed after, same with basically every group. Stans need to chill with the titles and focus on the music
9:44 wait, can someone explain this to me? I don't really keep up with any SM groups, but why would aespa disband? or was this more of an exaggeration?
its more of an exaggeration; its just that aespa arent given as much as the other groyps. they had one cb in '22 and have only had a song for the tetris movie this yr LOL
@@nuklearrr I see, ty
not literally disband, i'm just exaggerating because they only had 1 comeback last years 9 months ago and it's been basically radio silence from sm about when their next cb will be
I don`t want sm to be bought by hybe because of what happened to gfriend. Their disbandment was weird and rushed. It looked like they were just thrown away
By the way, as far as I know, the idols don't decide their stage outfits or the outfits on official public appearances. That's the Stylists job. I think they are to blame and since it is their only job, they should put much more research into the content and meaning of the outfits.
In my country we aren't educated about the swastika symbol we also aren't educated about the world wars as our country view it as something that was important to us
But I do agree that she should have at least looked it up because I wouldn't have known about the swastika if it wasn't for a movie I watched
From my research, there's more adults in kpop currently than minors, BUT whatever minors are debuting, shouldn't debut at all. It's harmful and hurtful to their development
I have so much to say, but this is UA-cam and don't want to write an essay.
This isn't really a messy opinion (and I'm not to sure if it belongs here) but I want to leave the 'the locals wont get this 🤭" phrases/phases back in the past.
I see a lot more carbon copies of NCT than I do BTS nowadays. I can name five recently debuted boy groups who's debut song sounded like a poor replicate of an NCT title track. Everyone wants to try their hand at NCT's experimental wave, except their vocals all suck and their production quality is piss poor. I don't think people are looking to be BTS anymore, music wise. Fame? Yes, but in terms of music BTS aren't a focal point in the kpop scene right now. Seeing as they lost their 'Kpop essence' after 2019.
I agree 100%, and I think I know which group you’re talking about lol
Agreed with this entire video like this was some real talk.
about the chaeyoung situation; i’m not sure if someone else brought this up or not, but i’d like to point out that the insta photos of her wearing that shirt were taken in a JEWISH OWNED RESTAURANT!!! like i’m sorry but how do you slip and fall and do something like that.
{ps i totally agree with the stuff you said about heejin}
I agree with all you said
It was world war, but not all education systems emphasise all part of the world history. So, yes it possible that she didn't know anything about the sign or the person. I live in the west and have no clue who the person is. And honestly, why should people know everything that's offensive to the USA? That country is so messed up that a cough is considered offensive🙄
They didn't get offended at a hair strand. Nor is this something EXCLUSIVE to USA only -_-. Don't flex your ignorance about really serious elements about history that shouldn't be excused. Chaeyoungs outfit was related to NAZISM. an ideology that was used to commit extreme mass genocide (10 million+ jews)
You are horrible for downplaying this
realest video ong fr fr preach
My thoughts on the boy group one is simply put THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER BTS,ok now that is out of the way let me explain who i think is going to do well now BTS is on hiatus SEVENTEEN:
They have a no skip discography
A good fandom(lowkey that is important)
They are like BTS without trying to be BTS,by that I mean self made,self producing and fans can connect to that.
SVT never tried to be BTS and are in fact close to BTS(friends with the members)
I think SVT have been serious(friendly)competition for BTS,not just successful cause BTS are on Hiatus
Other BG are trying to hard to be BTS and losing their identity
Before you all come at me and say SKZ are-NO they are trying too hard to have the self made,best rapline mantra(2 things always talked about with BTS,how their rapline was bts backbone and how they built HYbe) and their fans keeps saying SKZ are the next bts in a round about way.
SVT have in fact grown and bloomed under Hybe and that shows and that fact they didn't try to be BTS has helped them,they are just being themselves and reaping all the rewards.(breaking pre order records as we speak)
I still have hope for a BTSVT collab one day.
SM being acquired by HYBe would have in fact been good for most of the artists-but now NCT will have 20 cb 15 repackages and poor Aespa will still be waiting for a full album and losing momentum.
I wholly expect end of year awards to be dominated y Hybe artists and I live for that.
Not a single Stay said that SKZ will be next BTS, we hate this as much as armys hate. It's more the western media doing this, but STAYs don't
Min Heejin has been like this, like forever. Everyone who knows her, says that her personality isnt the most pleasant one, her being extremely arrogant, propably just knowing her value in the industry and how wanted she is, but because of her "genius" like qualitys on her professional side, the industry people have learned to tolerate her. Without this lady, we wouldnt have half of the widely popular megahits, including 2nd gen, 3rd gen and now 4th gen. I agree with you, she doesnt need to be at the forth front of them to manage them, but on the other hand this is the the first group where she is managing the group in its entirety instead of just an individual song/cb, so i dont see her stepping down from it.
Didn't watch the video yet but I just want to give my opinion on the Chaeyoung situation real quick. There's a lot of people attacking her when that shouldn't be the case. It is very possible that she did not know what a swastika was. I recently took a wwII elective at my uni and one of the big things my teacher taught us on the first day was that virtually no school teaches the full war, not even the full overview. I'm from the US and when it came to all the stuff in Asia as a whole, virtually all of it I've never even heard of except things like "the rape of nanking." Countries focus on what their countries were involved with when teaching history and being from Korea, a lot of stuff happened there during the war. They probably learned about the holocaust/nazis but most likely very briefly, not to mention she went to a performing arts highschool and was an active idol during her later teenage years when she'd have learned about it. The whole qanon thing isn't anything tbh. The shirt looks cool if you don't know anything about Qanon and they sell those all around NYC so her stylist, or her, saw it and thought it looked cool and just grabbed it. She's recieving so much hate for things she was entirely ignorant about and stan twitter really needs to learn that not everyone knows everything. She issued an appology saying she didn't know and would learn from it and ppl need to learn that sometimes you can and should take things at face value.
now this is you just making an excuse because who doesn’t know what a swastika is - ESPECIALLY someone with as much privilege and access to technology as her. This is just such an infantilising take - she is a grown woman who simply should’ve know better. Also please don’t sit here and say people sh souls take her apology at face value - she wore a symbol that represents one of the largest genocides in history that people are still reeling from/ facing trauma from today it’s not something that should be take at just face value
@@katelady1370 IT WAS A WORLD WAR WHICH AFFECTED EVERYONE - WW2 is literally such a dramatic shift in Korean History and they were heavily affected by that war. SHUT UP WITH THESE BULLSHIT EXCUSES AND HAVE THE MORAL DECENCY TO HOLD YOUR IDOLS ACCOUNTABLE FOR PERPETUATING ANTI-SEMITIC SYMBOLS
the fact that you would prefer to think that your idol is an ignorant dumb idiot than to hold them accountable for their mistakes... Like do you REALLY believe that in Korea they do not know what a nazi is taking into account (not only education) but the amount of cultural pieces that are related to nazism and nazi germany, the amount of movies, tv shows, music, art... like its everywhere. everyone knows. I am from a country that was not involved in WW2 and I still know. Like please
Swastika is an ancient sacred symbol. THE NAZI HOOKED CROSS is a symbol of GENOCIDE
@@isla3974move on my god I wish kpop stayed in Asia
Wearing a swastika symbol, even if you didn't know the meaning behind it, is not okay. The swastika is a symbol that has been associated with many different meanings throughout history, but it has become most commonly known as a symbol of hatred and oppression due to its association with the Nazi regime and their atrocities during World War II.
Wearing a swastika symbol can be hurtful and offensive to people who have been directly or indirectly affected by the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime. It is important to educate oneself about the history of the swastika symbol and to recognize the harm that it can cause, so that we can work towards building a more tolerant and inclusive society.
If you have worn a swastika symbol in the past out of ignorance, it is important to take responsibility for your actions and to learn from the experience. It may also be helpful to apologize to anyone who may have been hurt or offended by your actions. Education and understanding are key to creating a more inclusive and respectful society, but Forgiveness is an important aspect of personal and social well-being. When we forgive someone, we let go of the anger, resentment, or negative emotions that we may be holding towards them. This can lead to greater personal peace, happiness, and emotional healing.
Moreover, sending someone death threats is never an acceptable or productive way to address a situation. It is illegal and can cause harm and trauma to the person receiving the threats. Violence and aggression only perpetuate a cycle of harm and negativity, and they do not contribute to building a more just and peaceful society.
Instead of seeking revenge or retaliation, it is important to practice empathy, compassion, and understanding towards others. This does not mean that we condone harmful or negative behavior, but rather that we strive to address it in a constructive and peaceful manner. By approaching conflicts with a mindset of forgiveness and understanding, we can work towards healing and building a more compassionate and just society, so just try and forgive ppl, everyone deserves a second chance
It's not swastika it's hooked cross.
That is just so wrong and unfair to say that anyone who wears swastika is wrong. Swastika is a Sanskrit word which literally means “good fortune”. If people were to come to India they would literally find a swastika everywhere. There is not a single occasion or religious celebrations where you won’t find a swastika. As I said above people in India see it as a symbol of good fortune and well being which is the original meaning of it. The symbol that nazis used is a crooked cross.
@@yashigoyal24 I'm talking about the symbol, I don't remember it's name so I just said swastika because everybody say that, but I literally know that it's not a swastika
I love ur takes and I agree w everything you've said can't wait for the next one 🫶