Repertoire: The BEST Sibelius KULLERVO SYMPHONY (Yes!)
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- This early masterpiece represents the first flowering of Sibelius' genius, which means the first flowering of Finnish concert music more generally. Formerly the specialty of conductor Paavo Berglund, the work has now entered the international repertoire, and its popularity shows no signs of diminishing. It's glorious.
Musical Examples courtesy of Naxos Records.
I am from Africa.
Apart from Sibelius' other symphonies, his songs, the violin concerto and the tone-poems, I have in particular been in love with his Kullervo Symphony now already for the last thirty years.
I know quite a number of South African musicians and composers, and have not yet met anybody amongst them who seemed to be in the least fascinated with Sibelius' music.
I have had two non-musician friends, both who passed away some years ago, who did share my love for Sibelius.
During the late 80's and early 90's the one friend introduced me to Sibelius' orchestral songs for the first time (Kirsten Flagstadt), and the other friend, to the Kullervo Symphony (Essa Pekka Salonen\ LA Phil)
I came across Mr David Hurwitz's films here on UA-cam for the first time today.
And here I can now sit, and with boundless pleasure, enjoy listening to him talking about Kullervo (!) and Luonnotar (!!) with such deep insight, such great knowledge, and most of all - with actual heartfelt passion !!
I am really greatful for it.
Thank you Mr Hurwitz!
This is such a great find on UA-cam for me.
I almost feel as if I can take out the champagne and glasses!!
And now I am going to hunt for more gems hiding in this invaluable Hurwitz - library.
Thank you so much, and welcome to the party!
🙏🏽🌿
Thank you
@@finlybenyunes8385
Thankyou for the reminder about Ashkenazy and Sibelius.
I am grateful that there exists a musician of Ashkenazy's stature that is so deeply fascinated with Sibelius' music.
I was solid gone on Sibelius by the age of 18 and that year I saw a piece in the London Times that EMI were releasing the Berglund, the first ever recording of a work that I had only seen as a mention in music edits. It was an event even then. And our town's one decent record store got in one copy. I sold my guitar and bought it. My thinking at that time was how magnificent a mind that could afford to suppress such music. The Estonian choir's sound frightened me it was so powerful. I hadn't up till then, heard such a wall of sound. I've gone on in listening to go bananas over other composers but that Kullervo meant Sib would be dead center in my heart ever more.
I hear you!
I remember having exactly the same feeling when I first heard the Bournemouth Berglund: my goodness, what a masterpiece! And interestingly, it shows the route Sibelius did NOT take: symphonies of Mahlerian proportions. Everything else he wrote in the genre was tauter and tauter all the time. But Kullervo shows how versatile he could be
Kullervo has a special place for me because it was one of the first classical works that really grabbed me. I started life as a heavy metal fan and as my musical taste expanded in my 20s, Kullervo was the perfect bridge. It is heavy and dark and the moral of the story is so grim and miserable. I mean, it starts with a horrible childhood and ends with the guy talking to his sword before killing himself. Can't get much more metal than that! While the completely un-metal Haydn has become my favorite composer over the years, I doubt I ever would have made it that far into classical without gateway drugs like Sibelius (and Shostakovich and Penderecki, etc.).
That first recording I heard was Salonen, but I love the Berglund/Bournemouth. There is something rough and ragged about the Bournemouth performance and I am not sure if it is interpretive or just Bournemouth in 1970 being a rough, ragged orchestra. But it works great.
Kullervo is a magnificent work. Has to be one of my favourite compositions with a doubt. Hearing it live at the RAH in London was one of the greatest highlights of all my concert going over the years.
As far as I can tell, there have been 18 recordings of Kullervo:
Berglund/Bournemouth(EMI/Warner)
Berglund/Helsinki(Warner)
Botstein/American SO(ASO)
Dausgaard/BBC Scottish(Hyperion)
C.Davis/LSO(RCA)
C.Davis/LSO(LSO)
N.Jarvi/Gothenburg SO(Bis)
P.Jarvi/Stockholm(Erato/Virgin)
Lintu/Finnish RSO(Ondine)
Panula/Turku PO(Naxos)
Rasilainen(Cpo)
Salonen/LA Phil(Sony)
Saraste/Finnish(Finlandia)
Segerstam/Danish(Chandos)
Segerstam/Helsinki PO(Ondine)
Spano/Atlanta SO(Telarc)
Vanska/Lahti SO(Bis)
Vanska/Minnesota(Bis)
You are a great story-teller, and that makes me want the music!
Thank you!
Its all supurb to me. The final part of it seems to me like a haunting spell. I cannot understand the Finish words but the final part is an unforgetable haunting piece second to none.
And i am glad that many, many years ago, i bought the Los Angelos Symphony version.
I have never heard this piece before. I'm listening to the Leif Segerstam recording with the HelsinkiPhilharmonic. I love it.
Thank you so letting us all know about it.
Glad you like it!
I've always enjoyed Salonen's recording - no nonsense is how I'd describe it. Colin Davis in his Live LSO version is great, but with the usual caveat it's recorded in the dry as a desert accoustic of the Barbican (Kingsway Hall, not withstanding the occasional tube train noise, we miss you!).
Thank you for discussing Kullervo. The first time I heard it, I was blown away. I have both Colin Davis recordings, but of course listen only to the second one. I keep his first account because it is on a 2-CD set with a fine Symphony 7 and Rakastava. Another one I like a lot is with Sakari Oramo and the BBC Symphony-a cover disc from BBC Music. It was recorded at a 2015 Proms concert.
Yes, the Oramo Proms performance is excellent, and it was great to have it as a freebie cover-disc. Come to think of it, a lot of those BBC Music Magazine CDs have been great; perhaps they should issue a "Best Of BBC Music" box set :)
ftumschk I can only agree with you! Other favorites include Sondergard’s Nielsen 5th, Mackerras’s Janacek Sinfonietta (more flexible than any of his commercial recordings and I have them all) and his Mahler 6th, Noseda’s Beethoven and Schumann, and most recently Oramo’s Prokofiev 5th (easily the equal of Karajan’s my previous favorite) and these are just the orchestral discs! There are many, many more!
Thanks again, David. Another belter of a video!
When I first heard the Berglund/Bournemouth, I stopped right there. I was so taken with its rawness. All the qualities of primal growl and edgy but full sound that makes the rest of Berglund's Bournemouth cycle so special are fully on display here. It sounds like it's come straight from Middle-earth. By the way, that's not a coincidence. Apparently, Tolkien was hugely taken with this tale. One of his earliest published works was 'The Story of Kullervo.'
But anyhow, your video has inspired me to forage further. I will try out Segerstam, next. I'm really getting into his recordings. I saw him conduct a shattering Nielsen 4 in Glasgow. What a dude! A symphonic Santa Claus. Love him.
To someone like me who is relatively new to classical music but is loving it, and especially Sibelius, this was the perfect video! Looking around the internet for guidance through musical works i only ever seem to find 2 things. Either a deep dive into the academic and technical realm of the music, which i don't think i'm ready for, or just the music in itself. What i often feel is lacking is this! Someone who knows the music and just walks you through it by talking about the ideas and the form and the choices the composer made, without demanding that you are a scholar. What i want is just enough information so i understand what i'm listening to :) Thank you so much and i'm going to look through the rest of your videos!
Thank you for listening. I hope you find others that are equally helpful to your explorations.
Thank you - everytime I watch one of your clips I learn something new.
Not everyone will know David has produced quite a few 'user guides' in his time, including one on Sibelius's orchestral works. Well worth seeking out. I know because I sought it out -- and it was well worth it.
Thank you!
Excelent analysis and review of this raw diamond.
Thank you kindly!
I always seem to connect Das Klagende Lied with Kullervo for strange reasons. For me I am happy with Berglund/Bournemouth, as also with the symphonies. That is ... Paavo Berglund. Yes indeed.
Take a look at the earliest work that you consider worthy of a listen, and you will often find that composer goes in a very different direction. Mahler wrote a piano quartet that is itself interesting, but it is nothing like what he would write like. Mahler did not become a Jewish version of Claude Debussy, which that piano quartet! Schoenberg wrote an attractive early string quartet that sounds like a valid successor to Brahms or Dvorak; it has a rich sound and is fully tonal. (This work should be performed far more often. Tell an audience that it is completely tonal and highly listenable).
By the way: I am an arch-conservative on tonality. I will believe in twelve-tone music when I hear a folk song that is truly twelve-tone! When classically-trained composers want to get melodic coherence, they need to return to folk music, as did Bartok in much and Shostakovich in his string quartets.
Thanks, great fun as ever. Please note, I would also add 'Pohjola's daughter' as a micro symphony, kicking the count up to 10
What a moving and imposing masterpiece... I have the Panula and it is, as you say, maybe a bit controlled but very musical. I like it. The Segerstam it's an absolutely stunning performance.
Great discussion as always. Sibelius may be my favorite composer, and I really love his work, and kullervo is probably my favorite of his tone poems. So thanks for talking about it.
K. I finally got the Segestram which I will listen to on Monday. I hope I like it at least as half as much as you do!
Great info on ‘Kullervo’, thanks! When you played the excerpt from the 3rd mvt. I thought it reminded me of The Rite of Spring’, so I was startled when you mentioned the 4th movement and ‘Petrushka’! I’ve got the Paavo Järvi and Segerstam discs and that Berglund on vinyl, so I know what I’m listening to tonight.
Have fun!
Years ago, when I first heard the work on Hungarian radio, I first thought that the piece was the Sacré du Printemp of the 19th century. I could hardly believe it was composed by Sibelius.
Great video! I recommend everyone listen to Kullervo and then compare it with other music from 1891-1892. It's from another planet. Who else was writing music this individual? The only two coming to mind are Mahler and Satie.
You are right that there is a study score, published by Breitkopf & Haertel. It has a very interesting preface by the editor Glenda Dawn Goss (whose book I will certainly now seek out) and is beautifully clear, a pleasure to use.
Not having heard the Segerstam I remain loyal to Berglund, if only because he has Jorma Hynninen (Finland's greatest baritone) at his peak.
A complete survey of the Kullervo, and i recognize the true Sibelian if i see one, lol. Kullervo is an astonishing piece, the beginning reminds me always of sitting round a fire in mid winter, and a bard (called Dave Hurwitz) starts to recite the tale of Kullervo... the piece is in my blood and soul, it really is, and haunts me every time i hear it. It's not music for the weak, i always say, it's an epic painted on a large canvas
" it's not the music for the weak " What do you mean ? It is very masterfully accessible piece. Loving it doesn't make the listener " strong " 😅
Wonderfully insightful discussion, good sir. 2nd movement haunts me, still.
Thanks David, just excellent and the enthusiasm really comes through there. It is indeed a great work and I recall recording it onto a cassette back in the early 80s when it was more of an occasion, probably Colin Davis or Berglund at that point but I certainly recall the frisson of hearing that opening theme for the first time.
It used to be that people said Bruckner was a dead end, I’m sure that’s not the case now, but that it was not was very obvious here. Just been listening to Nielsen’s 4th (very good anticorona therapy) and the Bruckner influences are very productive and obvious there too. It’d be a good symphony for a soonish podcast but I’m guessing you think so too
I already did Nielsen's 4th, but I can't think of many composers of that era who owe less to Bruckner. Nielsen's masterly control of motion and dynamic approach to tonality is precisely the opposite of Bruckner's style. The only thing they have in common, vaguely, is the background inspiration of Beethoven, but again, in very different ways. Nielsen aspired to Beethoven's dramatic and eruptive intensity; Bruckner was inspired by the monumentality and elevated spiritual qualities of the late works.
I had forgotten you’d done it but then I remembered the discussion of Martinon’s recording. I think we might have to agree to disagree here, which is usually an issue of individually correct perceptions but divergent conclusions. Sure, in terms of motion and the “spirituality” very different. Not sure that Bruckner isn’t energetically éruptive though! Different construction and feelings of motion absolutely. There are things especially in the finale of the inextinguishable that sound just like Bruckner to me (horn calls, certain descending and somewhat brutal fanfares and so on).
Very useful talk, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Usually in disagreement with your opinions but not on this one: Kullervo is Sibelius finest symphony and the version with Helsinki phil. and Segerstam is spectacular-epic-powerful and outright glorious!
I suppose if you agree I should be worried. I must be losing my touch.
I have to go with Davis/LSO live recording. For some reason the LSO seem to play out of their skins for this piece. Gentlemen of the London Symphony Chorus also know their Finnish as well. Not really a Davis fan but here he is definitely on form. The recording is first rate as well but the Segerstam (ondine) is definitely a great second choice
Now would you please do an overview of Luonnotar? I've never heard a bad recording of it, but I don't think it is as popular as its excellence deserves. Thanks.
I'd like too, but I want to play a bit so we will see.
Looks like BIS have released the second (Minnesota) Vänskä _Kullervo_ on its own, instead of it being part of a 2-disc set with the rather short _Migrations_ by Olli Kortekangas. I don't know if there's a single CD version, but there's now a "Kullervo-only" download you can get from Amazon and 7digital. I'm listening to it now, and it's very good.
Glad you mentioned Paavo Järvi’s version. Turns out, it was the first one that used no musicians from Finland. Even before Spano’s.
well, estonian is close related to finnish, so it is half-cheating ;)
aa tim Haha! I should ask Paavo if he agrees with that. 😄
@@aatim2308 Would this be like comparing the English to the Scots?
@@mickeytheviewmoo I am not an estonian but I guess this comparison is quite accurate.
Great survey.
Dear Dave - I pray the ghost of Sibelius that you will see my message.... I am on the BOD and I play percussions with Sinfonia de Montréal, a very strong amateur orchestra. I WANT to program Kullervo but - what to couple with it? I would also want to program the Wood Nymph (and maybe conduct it...). What is could we program for the choir?
I don't understand why Kullervo isn't enough for the choir, but if you want something else remember that it's a male choir, so consider Bruckner's Helgoland--it's only about 10 minutes long and it would go really well with Sibelius. It would work perfectly as an "overture."
I love Berglund second time recording more than first time. Yes first recording is beautiful, but too elegant and too gentle for me (especially the chorus part). Second time with Helsinki philharmonic is most dramatic, solid and most North Europe feeling 😆
David, thanks to your Sibelius series I have been inspired to refresh my collection! I just ordered BIS's Essential Sibelius box -- 15 CDs -- and am now making lists of other recordings to round out the collection. Certainties at this point are Segerstam's Incidental Music box, and Inkinen's tone poems and suites, both on Naxos. Any recommendations for The Tempest?
Segerstam on Ondine for the Suites--a wonderful disc.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks. I guess he is a pick for the Lemminkainen suite too...
@@ThreadBomb One of them, certainly.
Is it just me does the second theme in Kullervo's youth sound like the opening theme of Janacek's opera From the house of the dead?
It does, and it also sounds like the Liszt piano sonata, which I suspect is where Sibelius (at least) got it from.
I have but one Kullervo in the collection: Panula/Turku Philharmonic on Naxos. That’s not too shabby, don’t you think?
Not at all.
I am a conducting student at UNO in Nebraska. Could you tell me where you get all of your scores?
I get them from everywhere--publisher's websites, and the usual online sources like SheetMusicPlus, etc. You just gotta look around.
I have the Hannu Lintu on Ondine. Seems pretty good to me.
Try five or six of the others! But seriously, it's not terrible--just not great. I like the photo of him all in black with his hell-hound, Fluffy, on the back of the booklet.
How would you compare Segerstam's latest Ondine recording with his earlier Chandos one, also with Isokoske and Raimo Laukka?
Ondine is much more incisive and bold.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you. I have a question: I was looking to get the copy of Paavo Berglund's earlier version with Bournemouth. Does the version you have contain a libretto or text to this work? Or just a synopsis? And for that matter, the latest Segerstam? I imagine Ondine would, but I just wanted to verify. Thanks
@@francispanny5068 Ondine does, but Berglund does not.
Thanks.
Am curious if Maestro Hurwitz has ever discussed the Lintu recording also on Ondine?
www.classicstoday.com/review/lintus-slick-kullervo/?search=1
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks ever so much for the quick reply, i just happened across your UA-cam channel and have subscribed, now I have to accustom myself with the Classics Today website, I have the Segerstam recording and figured that Lintu "might" be able to match or better. ps, great first name by the way -- thus spake "david.com" (me) :)
@@davidmblumenstein Thank you, and enjoy!
One bizarre moment in the Vänska recording, is the pause before the big Baritone solo that ends the 3rd movement. 15 seconds! Are you kidding me?!
That's why God invented fermatas.
Actually the whole "soundscape" of Kullervo is so unique, that still nothing comes even close to it...
Actually the 1st movement theme is highly reminiscent of Tchaikovsky Manfred Symphony.
The same sweeping surging horn laden melodic shape!
Love them both😂