All good advice, Greg. Some of us (well me at 73, me anyway) are on a very tight budget and the biggest bang for the few bucks I could put on the table, was for an old school welder. I purchased a Dialarc 250 ac-dc. When i bought the latter, part of the deal was for me to look inside. Inside the unit it was in great shape, outside, the paint had faded and it was pretty banged up. I paid the asking price of cnd$200. When i got the unit home, I replaced a circuit breaker and added a missing plug in lead socket and adjusted the voltage taps to run on 220volts. My Dialarc runs perfectly off a 30amp dryer plug, I know it is nowhere near as efficient as a modern inverter, but for the amount I weld, it doesn't matter. I do have a couple of really cheap inverter welders but they won't run 6010 , my Dialarc "loves" 6010. Thank you for sharing, and I really enjoy your videos.
That dial arc 250 is what I would want to have in a shop as a go to stick welder. Defiantly not portable, but as long as it has electricity it will weld. You got a solid deal on it too, which makes it even better 😀
all good advice and you are right stay away from stolen stuff. Having worked construction I had to send people away every once in a while bringing stolen stuff on the job site. I hate thieves
Did they bring stuff without their name and some company name on it? I can’t stand thieves, or hypocrites, which is why I don’t deal with anything I remotely think is stolen. It’s just not worth it.
That’s a great welder to learn how to stick weld 😀. Other than being big and heavy it will put down excellent welds. It will also run any rod that’s out there and has a ton of power. Focus on the basics and practice a bunch, you’ll be building/fixing things with that in no time.
So I can tell you there are some for sure. Every company out there has some duds. The longer the machine is out there the more problems tend to be ironed out. The worst duds off the bat I can think of is the Lincoln power mig 260, and virtually any cheaper Amazon special. The mig 260 had some major issues and they came out with the 262 to fix those issues. As far as Amazon specials, most of them won’t last very long, but at the same time they tend to be dirt cheap. The way I see it is this: if you buy a cheap welder for say 100$, and it fails after a while, it’s probably still earned its cost. I had a harbor freight titanium 125 fail on me once after using it maxed out for probably 35 hours of actual weld time in two weeks (plus probably 100 hours of welding besides). For the 130$ it cost I literally made 20x its cost in income off it, so it was worth it. If reliability and quality is more of a concern, it’s worth it to buy a name brand. Often times you have a 3 year warranty, the quality of everything is better, and they tend to be easier to use. That doesn’t mean they are more reliable but if something goes wrong you can get it fixed for no cost to you in the warranty period. So realistically if you stick with a name brand used you will probably be ok. I have bought numerous fronius, esab, miller, and other brand machines used without issue. I would stay away from the first generation of heavy electronic based welders, so the miller dynasty/maxstar 200 and similar from other companies. They are all old enough that part failures will be an issue. Newer machines will be part less of an issue. Age isn’t kind to electronics lol.
This is great information, I’ve found a good stick welder from Craigslist and am happy with it (luckily it was still new in the box) no warranty for it but it’s okay cause I paid half price for it over new in the store. You have a fantastic channel and I appreciate all you do!
lol Thats like me buying a Bike Yr's Ago & Not Even Trying It Out or Anything... It was Yrs since i was on a bike & didn't wanna dump it or look stupid infront of the seller's... So far so good tho.........
Very informative Video! How high is the risk with auctions especially when some one has to give up buissness in the US? For germany it seems quite manageable because of the strict rules for the used market. Off topic: I find it very interresting what the different standards fot the connection are, especially for the mig-uns to the machine. Are all Brands different? Because we have commonly one type of connect or the "Euro-zentralanschluss" so that you can interchange mig-guns between roughly all brands here (afaik up to 500A rated)
As far as auctions, you can buy stuff at government auctions and even commercial going out of business auctions. I have watched stuff on online auctions, but I swear the prices seem to go for far too high. The quality of what you can get varies, in many cases it’s labeled “untested” and “as-is”. I almost bought a generator welder that way for cheap, but I was worried I would be out a bunch of money and it would need a bunch of parts. The replacement parts cost have hit a all time high it seems. For your question regarding MiG guns. Here in the USA it’s quite a mess lol. I am not a expert in Mig machines but every mig machine I have owned in the last 4 years used a different style connector, and I have had 6 machines. Many of the import machines are coming with what I believe is a “euro” style connector. However if you go into a big box store 9 out of 10 welders will have proprietary hookups. I have bought wrong guns for machines before so I know how much of a pain it can be to figure out what will work for a machine lol. Then on top of that most euro Mig guns use tips that nobody sells in stores, so you have to buy them online. Frustrating to say the least lol.
For the mig-gun itself we have a (maybe quasi-standard) I believe introduced by Abicor-Binzel with some types of different powerrates called MB15, 25, 36, 401 and 501 which show roughly the recommended powerrates. The nice thing is that also the "chinese" models and consumables sold here comply to these "standards" (with the kown quality issues). I think buying welding utility in the US would really confuse me. 😂
Greg, I'm hitting you up again with more questions but this times about Titanium and Firepower welders. I see that the price to move up to a multi-process welder is not typically more than $200. Given the following two welders and their associated specs and price, do you have a perference between the following two welders? Also are there any downsides to owning a multi-process vs single process welder? Northern Tool: MST-200/Model# 1444-3200/$719.39 Harbor Freight: TITANIUM 200 Professional Multi-Process Welder with 120/240V Input/$799.00
The increase in price to the multi use machines is pretty minimal, which makes it a great option. The firepower multi process just dropped in price so it’s cheaper than the titanium 200. The mst200 is the same thing as the esab branded 210emp that costs over 1k. 110% buy the firepower multi process. It has a 3 year warranty through esab vs 90 days harbor freight. That alone makes it worth buying. A friend of mine has the titanium 200 and it’s a great welder but the firepower is better. It has a better stinger, tig torch, and MiG gun. The titanium 200 is slightly smaller I believe. No way is the firepower worth say 400$ more over the titanium 200 but the fact it’s the same or less makes it a no brainer. Edit: I am sure the multi process firepower tig welds decent with lift arc and the MiG will be excellent just like the MiG only version I have. It’s stick mode is probably not the best, most all in ones have poor stick performance because of the difficulties with output voltage. In simple terms neither welder will like run 6010, they will probably run 6011 mediocre (I know the titanium 200 is mediocre with 6011). For 7018 they will probably both be the same.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you Greg. Unfortunately, Northern Tool is no long taking orders for the Firepower. Would you know where I can get it at a similar price?
If northern tool is sold out it’s possible cyberweld or another supplier will come to the rescue. I am not sure what’s going on but bakers gas has a few esab products for significant discounts, northern has different ones on huge discount, and a few other suppliers had different products on deal. If the manufacture was doing it you would think everyone would have the same prices, but esabs welders are being sold for prices/deals all over the map. Harbor freight is pretty consistent with sale prices, their “best deal of the year” and normal once a month sales tend to not differ by more than 5%, so waiting a month in a attempt to get a firepower welder is well worth it. Even if you can’t get a firepower and settle of the titanium in a month, you won’t be out more than probably 50$ difference in price by waiting.
Yes, I have used the invertig 221 a bunch. I really like that machine. It strikes a good balance of features you need and you’re not paying for stuff you don’t need. USA weld (the importer of the welder) is around a hour and 15min from my house. I will have to stop down there one of these days and try out their bigger new welders and their Mig machine. I buy my CK torches and mig guns from them and they have always done well for me.
I’ll have to disagree with you on the “look for a clean welder” tactic. My Hobart TigWave 250 along with the Miller Water Cooler was absolutely filthy and covered in grinding dust when I went to check it out at a boat lift manufacturing company. They already had it listed at a stupid low price, but because it appeared to be so “neglected” I was able to talk them down to $500 for the entire package (which included all leads torches/stinger and hoses along with a heavy duty cart that it was all mounted on). Just the water cooler was worth $1k. It’s a welder, it’s not like there is any maintenance to keep up with. I made sure that it worked, that the points looked good, and that they would load it on my trailer. When that all checked out, I couldn’t throw the cash at them fast enough! So far it is probably the best deal on tool stuff that I have ever made. If they had taken the time to pay an employee to clean it up and consider what it is worth, there is no doubt in my mind that they would have been asking for a price that was way over my budget. That’s the kind of deals I look for. I don’t want to buy from the guy that keeps the box, receipts and the picture of himself beside it on the day he bought it. . . I don’t need the case to have a fresh coat of carnuba wax and a spatter-free ground clamp. I can handle all of the cleaning and polishing when I get it home. Frankly, the only concern I would have is that the smoke could escape a circuit board that is covered in grinder dust. If you take the time to blow everything out really well and scrub the circuit boards with some alcohol, lowering your standards for a dirty welder can save you a ton of cash and get you a welder that would usually be beyond your price range. I mean obviously if the price is the same, I would prefer a clean welder to a dirty one, but I’ll gladly be a glorified janitor if the job pays a few hundred dollars for an hour of work.
The main concern is dust shorting things out, or getting in fan bearings and trashing them. Also, again, it serves as a general indication, not something you should base your purchase on alone.
I would like to add another suggestion… Do your homework and research what you are buying. Watch welder specific reviews and if possible people using the same model. If possible, download the owners manual, and gain a basic familiarity with its feature, specs and controls. If you have a particular process or Stick Electrode you think you want to run, look to see if there are limitations. A good example would be the Stick Electrode 6010 which typically will not run well (if at all) on an Inverter. Commonsense is your best tool, if your inner voice is trying to Justify why “it’s OK to go ahead with the purchase”, then perhaps you should reconsider, trust your gut instinct if something seems off! If they can’t answer basic questions or give you a reasonable history - Buyer Beware! Especially if they don’t seem to want you to know where they live or see their license plate, or any other means of identifying them if it is stolen. Buying stollen items is hard to defend in the eyes of the law, and just not worth it.
I also forgot to mention “buy more welder than you think you need”. It’s not that buying a 140amp welder is a mistake, but when you find out how limiting that is over a 200amp class machine you’ll wish you bought something more powerful 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg that is exactly what happened to me. I bought a 120v MIG welder, and it didn’t take long to realize I need more Power, but also more processes to choose from, especially where a strong weld is required. Greg has demonstrate, quite well that there are limitations to what a wire welders have, and I quickly learned that Stick Welding was a better choice, and not too hard to learn. TIG is certainly a very nice, good looking and precise process choice too, but is in my opinion the most difficult to learn, and if you’re going to do it right, you need good accessories (foot pedal, good torch, and AC capabilities for Aluminum). Fortunately, decent multiprocess welder are available, and more affordable than ever, especially when you’re learning welding or a new process. Fortunately for us, Greg is proficient in all three processes, and an excellent teacher. He is at the top of my list of the best teachers, and he is fun to watch!
100% right. The best deals to be had are the ones where they can’t show they work due to no power, but you happened to have a generator to test it lol.
Buy new welder, buy used welder but do not postpone it for years, especially if you have a homestead or something. Welding is FUN…when it’s not miserable 😅
It is fun and it can be miserable lol. If you ever want a miserable challenge, try to weld a auto body panel together (on a lap weld) with 1/16th stick rods. I did it before (hope I never have to again), and miserable doesn't even describe it. Its like a comedic joke because of how hard it is😂.
All good advice, Greg. Some of us (well me at 73, me anyway) are on a very tight budget and the biggest bang for the few bucks I could put on the table, was for an old school welder. I purchased a Dialarc 250 ac-dc. When i bought the latter, part of the deal was for me to look inside. Inside the unit it was in great shape, outside, the paint had faded and it was pretty banged up. I paid the asking price of cnd$200.
When i got the unit home, I replaced a circuit breaker and added a missing plug in lead socket and adjusted the voltage taps to run on 220volts.
My Dialarc runs perfectly off a 30amp dryer plug, I know it is nowhere near as efficient as a modern inverter, but for the amount I weld, it doesn't matter.
I do have a couple of really cheap inverter welders but they won't run 6010 , my Dialarc "loves" 6010.
Thank you for sharing, and I really enjoy your videos.
That dial arc 250 is what I would want to have in a shop as a go to stick welder. Defiantly not portable, but as long as it has electricity it will weld. You got a solid deal on it too, which makes it even better 😀
all good advice and you are right stay away from stolen stuff. Having worked construction I had to send people away every once in a while bringing stolen stuff on the job site. I hate thieves
Did they bring stuff without their name and some company name on it? I can’t stand thieves, or hypocrites, which is why I don’t deal with anything I remotely think is stolen. It’s just not worth it.
Great video. I just picked up a 1969 Idealarc 250. You’ve really been a huge help for someone like me who’s just getting started.
That’s a great welder to learn how to stick weld 😀. Other than being big and heavy it will put down excellent welds. It will also run any rod that’s out there and has a ton of power. Focus on the basics and practice a bunch, you’ll be building/fixing things with that in no time.
What are the welders out there that are known to have reliability issues, mentioned at minute 3:18 or so?
So I can tell you there are some for sure. Every company out there has some duds. The longer the machine is out there the more problems tend to be ironed out. The worst duds off the bat I can think of is the Lincoln power mig 260, and virtually any cheaper Amazon special. The mig 260 had some major issues and they came out with the 262 to fix those issues. As far as Amazon specials, most of them won’t last very long, but at the same time they tend to be dirt cheap.
The way I see it is this: if you buy a cheap welder for say 100$, and it fails after a while, it’s probably still earned its cost. I had a harbor freight titanium 125 fail on me once after using it maxed out for probably 35 hours of actual weld time in two weeks (plus probably 100 hours of welding besides). For the 130$ it cost I literally made 20x its cost in income off it, so it was worth it. If reliability and quality is more of a concern, it’s worth it to buy a name brand. Often times you have a 3 year warranty, the quality of everything is better, and they tend to be easier to use. That doesn’t mean they are more reliable but if something goes wrong you can get it fixed for no cost to you in the warranty period.
So realistically if you stick with a name brand used you will probably be ok. I have bought numerous fronius, esab, miller, and other brand machines used without issue. I would stay away from the first generation of heavy electronic based welders, so the miller dynasty/maxstar 200 and similar from other companies. They are all old enough that part failures will be an issue. Newer machines will be part less of an issue. Age isn’t kind to electronics lol.
This is great information, I’ve found a good stick welder from Craigslist and am happy with it (luckily it was still new in the box) no warranty for it but it’s okay cause I paid half price for it over new in the store. You have a fantastic channel and I appreciate all you do!
I have run out of room in my shop. Keeping manuals, but boxes are starting to get culled. Auctions are dangerous, stuff follows you home.
Auctions are dangerous places 😅
Very good. I agree.
lol Thats like me buying a Bike Yr's Ago & Not Even Trying It Out or Anything... It was Yrs since i was on a bike & didn't wanna dump it or look stupid infront of the seller's... So far so good tho.........
Very informative Video!
How high is the risk with auctions especially when some one has to give up buissness in the US? For germany it seems quite manageable because of the strict rules for the used market.
Off topic:
I find it very interresting what the different standards fot the connection are, especially for the mig-uns to the machine. Are all Brands different? Because we have commonly one type of connect or the "Euro-zentralanschluss" so that you can interchange mig-guns between roughly all brands here (afaik up to 500A rated)
As far as auctions, you can buy stuff at government auctions and even commercial going out of business auctions. I have watched stuff on online auctions, but I swear the prices seem to go for far too high. The quality of what you can get varies, in many cases it’s labeled “untested” and “as-is”. I almost bought a generator welder that way for cheap, but I was worried I would be out a bunch of money and it would need a bunch of parts. The replacement parts cost have hit a all time high it seems.
For your question regarding MiG guns. Here in the USA it’s quite a mess lol. I am not a expert in Mig machines but every mig machine I have owned in the last 4 years used a different style connector, and I have had 6 machines. Many of the import machines are coming with what I believe is a “euro” style connector. However if you go into a big box store 9 out of 10 welders will have proprietary hookups. I have bought wrong guns for machines before so I know how much of a pain it can be to figure out what will work for a machine lol. Then on top of that most euro Mig guns use tips that nobody sells in stores, so you have to buy them online. Frustrating to say the least lol.
For the mig-gun itself we have a (maybe quasi-standard) I believe introduced by Abicor-Binzel with some types of different powerrates called MB15, 25, 36, 401 and 501 which show roughly the recommended powerrates. The nice thing is that also the "chinese" models and consumables sold here comply to these "standards" (with the kown quality issues). I think buying welding utility in the US would really confuse me. 😂
Greg,
I'm hitting you up again with more questions but this times about Titanium and Firepower welders. I see that the price to move up to a multi-process welder is not typically more than $200. Given the following two welders and their associated specs and price, do you have a perference between the following two welders? Also are there any downsides to owning a multi-process vs single process welder?
Northern Tool: MST-200/Model# 1444-3200/$719.39
Harbor Freight: TITANIUM 200 Professional Multi-Process Welder with 120/240V Input/$799.00
The increase in price to the multi use machines is pretty minimal, which makes it a great option. The firepower multi process just dropped in price so it’s cheaper than the titanium 200. The mst200 is the same thing as the esab branded 210emp that costs over 1k. 110% buy the firepower multi process. It has a 3 year warranty through esab vs 90 days harbor freight. That alone makes it worth buying. A friend of mine has the titanium 200 and it’s a great welder but the firepower is better. It has a better stinger, tig torch, and MiG gun. The titanium 200 is slightly smaller I believe. No way is the firepower worth say 400$ more over the titanium 200 but the fact it’s the same or less makes it a no brainer.
Edit: I am sure the multi process firepower tig welds decent with lift arc and the MiG will be excellent just like the MiG only version I have. It’s stick mode is probably not the best, most all in ones have poor stick performance because of the difficulties with output voltage. In simple terms neither welder will like run 6010, they will probably run 6011 mediocre (I know the titanium 200 is mediocre with 6011). For 7018 they will probably both be the same.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you Greg. Unfortunately, Northern Tool is no long taking orders for the Firepower. Would you know where I can get it at a similar price?
If northern tool is sold out it’s possible cyberweld or another supplier will come to the rescue. I am not sure what’s going on but bakers gas has a few esab products for significant discounts, northern has different ones on huge discount, and a few other suppliers had different products on deal. If the manufacture was doing it you would think everyone would have the same prices, but esabs welders are being sold for prices/deals all over the map. Harbor freight is pretty consistent with sale prices, their “best deal of the year” and normal once a month sales tend to not differ by more than 5%, so waiting a month in a attempt to get a firepower welder is well worth it. Even if you can’t get a firepower and settle of the titanium in a month, you won’t be out more than probably 50$ difference in price by waiting.
Hey as a heads up, I just got a email that says the fp200 is back in stock right now. So you might have the ability to grab one.
Greg, I just contacted NT. The item is not back in stock.
Greg, you ever use htp welders?
Yes, I have used the invertig 221 a bunch. I really like that machine. It strikes a good balance of features you need and you’re not paying for stuff you don’t need. USA weld (the importer of the welder) is around a hour and 15min from my house. I will have to stop down there one of these days and try out their bigger new welders and their Mig machine. I buy my CK torches and mig guns from them and they have always done well for me.
I'd Choose the American Blue or the Swedish Yellow... That Miller 210 is $8545 right now in Canada........LoL @#$% ThaT......
Yeah, some of the prices are getting absurd that’s for sure.
I’ll have to disagree with you on the “look for a clean welder” tactic. My Hobart TigWave 250 along with the Miller Water Cooler was absolutely filthy and covered in grinding dust when I went to check it out at a boat lift manufacturing company. They already had it listed at a stupid low price, but because it appeared to be so “neglected” I was able to talk them down to $500 for the entire package (which included all leads torches/stinger and hoses along with a heavy duty cart that it was all mounted on). Just the water cooler was worth $1k. It’s a welder, it’s not like there is any maintenance to keep up with. I made sure that it worked, that the points looked good, and that they would load it on my trailer. When that all checked out, I couldn’t throw the cash at them fast enough! So far it is probably the best deal on tool stuff that I have ever made. If they had taken the time to pay an employee to clean it up and consider what it is worth, there is no doubt in my mind that they would have been asking for a price that was way over my budget. That’s the kind of deals I look for. I don’t want to buy from the guy that keeps the box, receipts and the picture of himself beside it on the day he bought it. . . I don’t need the case to have a fresh coat of carnuba wax and a spatter-free ground clamp. I can handle all of the cleaning and polishing when I get it home. Frankly, the only concern I would have is that the smoke could escape a circuit board that is covered in grinder dust. If you take the time to blow everything out really well and scrub the circuit boards with some alcohol, lowering your standards for a dirty welder can save you a ton of cash and get you a welder that would usually be beyond your price range. I mean obviously if the price is the same, I would prefer a clean welder to a dirty one, but I’ll gladly be a glorified janitor if the job pays a few hundred dollars for an hour of work.
The main concern is dust shorting things out, or getting in fan bearings and trashing them. Also, again, it serves as a general indication, not something you should base your purchase on alone.
But dust really can kill inverter welders
I would like to add another suggestion…
Do your homework and research what you are buying. Watch welder specific reviews and if possible people using the same model. If possible, download the owners manual, and gain a basic familiarity with its feature, specs and controls.
If you have a particular process or Stick Electrode you think you want to run, look to see if there are limitations. A good example would be the Stick Electrode 6010 which typically will not run well (if at all) on an Inverter.
Commonsense is your best tool, if your inner voice is trying to Justify why “it’s OK to go ahead with the purchase”, then perhaps you should reconsider, trust your gut instinct if something seems off!
If they can’t answer basic questions or give you a reasonable history - Buyer Beware! Especially if they don’t seem to want you to know where they live or see their license plate, or any other means of identifying them if it is stolen.
Buying stollen items is hard to defend in the eyes of the law, and just not worth it.
I also forgot to mention “buy more welder than you think you need”. It’s not that buying a 140amp welder is a mistake, but when you find out how limiting that is over a 200amp class machine you’ll wish you bought something more powerful 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg that is exactly what happened to me. I bought a 120v MIG welder, and it didn’t take long to realize I need more Power, but also more processes to choose from, especially where a strong weld is required. Greg has demonstrate, quite well that there are limitations to what a wire welders have, and I quickly learned that Stick Welding was a better choice, and not too hard to learn. TIG is certainly a very nice, good looking and precise process choice too, but is in my opinion the most difficult to learn, and if you’re going to do it right, you need good accessories (foot pedal, good torch, and AC capabilities for Aluminum). Fortunately, decent multiprocess welder are available, and more affordable than ever, especially when you’re learning welding or a new process.
Fortunately for us, Greg is proficient in all three processes, and an excellent teacher. He is at the top of my list of the best teachers, and he is fun to watch!
take your own generator 115/230V so you don't show up and have no power
100% right. The best deals to be had are the ones where they can’t show they work due to no power, but you happened to have a generator to test it lol.
Buy new welder, buy used welder but do not postpone it for years, especially if you have a homestead or something. Welding is FUN…when it’s not miserable 😅
It is fun and it can be miserable lol. If you ever want a miserable challenge, try to weld a auto body panel together (on a lap weld) with 1/16th stick rods. I did it before (hope I never have to again), and miserable doesn't even describe it. Its like a comedic joke because of how hard it is😂.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I should definitely do that! 🤣