Can you do a video on why men can be shirtless, in makeup, heels, a thong, a wig (impersonating a woman or topless woman), but real women can’t? Like why trans men can’t show their nipples before they transition, but after they do it’s fine? It’s discrimination. We should all #Freethenipple or all have to cover them. Maybe dive into how that involves business/capitalism. If women were to free the nip we’d spend a lot less on bras and bikini tops. Maybe dive into the race part of it, how it was fine before in some places and because of influences or colonialism it became immoral. For example I live in what is currently a colony of the US and before they came it was fine and now it’s illegal. I don’t go to the beach as often as I’d like because I feel unsafe and disadvantaged when I see all the shirtless men many of whom also have boobs.
Not after seeing trans women get real women pregnant in prison or this transgender on kendra g show talk about she is hetro woman of the trans experience. The transgender and homosexuals have been making fun of straight people with what they have been able to getaway with. Not to mention all the scholarships and job opportunities taken from real women. So you can play the farmers ass and think this is appropriate
This has sat wrong with me for years. Back when Tyler Perry was first getting mainstream success, I remember saying to a friend how the trope bothered me. If you want a funny black woman, by all means hire a funny black woman. There's no shortage of them to choose from. Nobody needs a man in a dress to play those roles and ham up weird stereotypes for laughs. It's needlessly lazy and also sexist. He looked at me like I was crazy.
I feel you but he only did it beause the actress fell ill at the last minute( if I'm not mistaken). He said he was quite reluctant to do it I remember the fuss it caused because I lived down the street. Art imitates life and I've never been offended because he wasn't acting any worse than people that I saw everyday. But I won't say he isn't offensive, just not to me.
@@Olive_O_Sudden if that was the case the first time, then considering the success, it would kinda be hard for him to just say, I'm not doing it again, go with a woman. You get on a high speed train, but it's kinda hard to get off if its moving at full speed, it needs to stop.
also, it's funny how black man dressed in drag for comedy is "hilarious" but a black drag queen is "awful, why would they dress up like that?" or whatever they say
@Chloe Could you please elaborate? I am not sure how trans woman and drag queens by themselves would be appropriating black culture or be misogynistic. I am not well versed in racial issues, but I would like to learn more by hearing of those whose voice matters in these topics.
“Black face was rooted in the humiliation, dehumanization, and justification of the continued subjugation…” Ok Jesse Jackson! 👏🏾 OAN this video wasn’t as chaotic as you thought, it was one of my favorite videos of yours thus far.
@Chloe I agree. A lot of drag makes fun of women in a similar way that black face made fun of black people. One episode of drag race specifically, in which the queens would act out pregnant trailer trash women giving birth, really didn't sit well with me...
What always gets me is when white men dress up as women they're most of the time in some kind of sweet old lady kind of light like John Travolta in Hairspray was a lovable mother and is seen more as a drag performance. Same with Mrs. Doubtfire. They're seen as characters that one would seldom connect with mocking White women. But often for Black men its almost resoundingly negative, especially online...
@@larissalaflore7202 In a horror movie, yes. It wasn't some kind of way to mock White women though, as he did not evoke any stereotypes. If you want to talk about how men dressing up as women for the sake of evoking fear of femininity and trans people that's a completely different story.
Online arguments for white people doing anything is what I consider to be as a black guy in the 90s put it, white blindness. Blind to the amount of murderers, thieves, men in drag, the horror movie villain that usually white men play in t.v. shows, movies, videogames ect. Eventually you just don't think about it because it's a race you can use to do pretty much anything and nobody cares, which is why white people often don't give a crap.
I guess this is why I love ''a black girl sketch show''. It's written by black women for black women. I don't get all of the jokes, but I'm happy it exists. They showcase many different experiences of black women that are hilarious. Also I love Khadija's hair ❤
in australia we have a show called ‘black comedy’ and its a sketch show like the one you described, made by indigenous people for indigenous people. like you im so happy that show exists. i just love it.
I'd love to get your perspective on fatphobia and how that intersects with race. A lot of these characters aren't just being made fun of for being black women but also for being fat.
A lot of the characters also tend to be older/matronly women, and I wonder if there’s something to be said about (particularly American) ideas about aging and elders that contributes to older characters as crazy, irrational, or comical in comparison to younger characters. This isn’t exclusive to Black actors, nor is it to say an older character can’t be humorous. Just that the widespread glamorization of youth contributes to negative characterization of older people as weird or obsolete rather than equal members of society and I think we see some of that with these characters as well. I don’t really know where I was going with this but I hope it makes sense
@@PochamaRex There's definitely something there about how older people are de-sexed. Because folks, older people are doin it, and that's a fact. But a) if sexuality among elderly folks is portrayed at all it is portrayed as pathetic or delusional, and b) as a result no-one bats an eye at an older woman being characterized by having a male actor. It's mockery that is made to be inherent to how the character is and acts on screen. She's "mannish", less than a real woman, because she's old. Similar with fatness (although, for disclosure, I am not old, fat, black OR a woman so my word isn't worth the pixels it's written on). Fatness is coded as being unfeminine (= bad because gender roles) and that is reinforced by casting a man for the role.
this made me think of once when billy porter was talking about tuxedo ballgown and how one of the reason people were getting all worked up about it was because he wasn't doing it in a comedic way. he wasn't wearing a dress to be funny. he was honestly just looking good at a fancy event.
Come to think of it, whenever people talk about a guy wear on a dress or a skirt, it’s either about comedy, drag, or a fashion statement. But I rarely if ever hear people talking about a guy wearing it on causally, away from cameras.
This may be unrelated, but my grandmother loved Geraldine and Madea, but if I even mentioned drag race or if she saw black drag queens she thought there was an agenda to emasculate the black man. I also think it’s funny that Tichina Arnold asked what BW can do to stop the emasculation of BM and it’s like sis… your co star played 2 black women on the show you were on. Ask him.
Forreal why is it always about the emasculation of men when often times when they ok with it (when straight men do it) they are making fun of women/ making them seem more masculine
The star of the show degraded her character Pam for being a dark skin woman. BM emasculate themselves. It is not BWs responsibility to help stop BM from being emasculated. The same way it’s not BPs responsibility to get whites to fix their rascist ways.
And I think that deeply affected Martin. He was battling his demons & really acting out in the 90s and I think it was balancing all those personalities. I think he probably didn’t want to do the drag but he didn’t stand up for himself like Dave. He let them execs make him do it. Then by allowing that on Martin, Came Big Mommas House. If you don’t stand up for yourself the industry will take full advantage of you.
As a Black woman, meeting new people is more me battling all the preconceived and conditioned notions the person has of me, than us just talking to each other about each other. I spend intentional energy to come with an open mind, ready to receive what the person has to offer - while they search and dig for the "black girl box" I fit in. I'm reaching my end of even trying with new people, I think I'll just roll with the few I have for life. I'm really starting to understand why, when I was a kid, older black people around me seemed so done with things - because they were.
This is especially difficult in countries in which there are so few of us. I have to fight against stereotypes and preconceived notions of blackness here in Japan because Japanese people believe whatever white media tells them about us, aside from their own negative feelings towards darker-skinned peoples.
@@countessofmontecristo3849 It’s so strange - I try not to step on other people’s toes when it comes to discourse about us as Americans and how we are to other nations in the world (as it’s still possible to subscribe to ideas of American exceptionalism, even as an African-American) but I’ve always wondered about this. How come there are people know enough about black people and culture to replicate the way of speech and dress of black Americans to a T, but are supposedly ignorant to racism in the US? I understand that you can easily pick up these things through the most globally accessible facets of black American culture (namely music, television, etc etc) but there are also tons of public figures who are big players in these areas and they are very transparent about the struggles they face because of being black. I understand that sometimes people genuinely don’t know or understand certain examples of antiblackness that are prevalent in America specifically, but it’s always peeved me how people (especially a certain brand of Americans and westerners) will rush to claim ignorance relating to racism on behalf of people who live in areas like Japan when it’s clear as day that “ignorance” only applies to racism and not anything else related to black people in popular culture
I think this ongoing trend shows how much Black women even in the black community are not given chances to be human. It also erases us and silences Black women in a conversation that directly affects us. We have to bear the brunt of these stereotypes.
There's also the 'life imitates art' part of it. This is part of why in America Blackness is an act and not just a race. You constantly have to prove you are Black by acting a certain way. We end up trying to limit and dim ourselves down to prove we are Black. Of course, not all of us and not all the time.
Yeah, blackness as a singular culture which is usually Black American (even tho blk people from diff parts of the US have their own cultures...). But this is because yt eyes have always been superfocused on what blk people near and far are doing especially creatively. And yt dollars are willing to commercialize it rather than just let it be. No other group has this much intense focus and in a way, this contributes to the internalization of yt / non-blk impressions of blk people by blk people and adds to the erasure of groups like Native Americans, whose culture is quite preserved in Latin America...
"Race isn't real but racism is." YESSSS thank you for putting that simple ideal into sum words that should make sense to everyone! Imma use this sentence to everybody lol
Thank you for the video, Khadija. I used to think that men dressing as women for comedy as "funny" and "groundbreaking." Once I hit adult age (around 19 - 21 years old), I realized why it is a problem. These types of portrayals affect women, especially Black women. Look at the history, which Khadija points out in the video. Black women end up being the butt of the joke when it comes to these negative portrayals💯
So men of other races dressing up as women is not bad to women? I'm not getting how this is bad for black women, but ok for other races. Your acting like black men are the only ones that have dressed in women's clothes. It is a comedy so it is a caricature. Just like when they do the dumb valley white girl or the Paris Hilton or Kardashian caricature.
I wonder how much of this is linked to the fact that in many cultures, historically women were either banned from performing or viewed as sinful harlots for doing so. (Thus, men would play women on stage.) Though, this does remind me of Japan's Takarazuka Revue, which is an entirely female cast, and even the male roles get played by women!
Ugh just the fact that kabuki theatre was created by all female acting troupes… and then it became more popular than the exclusively male noh theatres…. And then men took over kabuki and excluded women from performing ://///
@@peasandmashedpotatoes6246 ironically, kabuki is seen as a dying art form nowadays, while Takarazuka remains extremely popular even among the young generations.
Yes and no... it has more to do with the disjuncture between the male body and the female performance being so uncomfortable to some as to provide laughter. Which is dependent on there being mysogny: a belief the two are fundamentally diffetent Don't forget that when women arr banned from stage male performances as women aren't seen as inherently hilarious. They're "art".
@@babymilksnatcher Quite true, though I think some of that is because Takarazuka scratches a very particular itch, not straying too far from more modern musical theater concepts, and women getting to play very masculine roles. From what I've read, the vast majority of the fan base of this revue is women, and it's the "Otokoyaku" that are the most celebrated, that is, the women playing men. Interestingly, their performance contracts stipulate that they must act very masculine even when not on stage (i.e.: fan meet-and-greets, photo-shoots, interviews) and dress masculine so as to maintain the aura to the audience and fanservice the fantasy. I'm not so sure Kabuki is even remotely interested in that kind of almost pop-culutural energy.
One of my closest white friends calls me a "white black girl," but she could easily be called a "black white girl" (though I wouldn't do that) cause her family is super blended and she talks/acts like, well, someone who has black family (I won't say a sister, but yeah). I check her whenever she says it because if she, a white woman, doesn't fit that criteria (which, what even is the criteria?), what does it even mean coming from her? I don't know. I just know there are no white girls like me. No one, regardless of race, could ever. 💅🏽
My Best friend ( who is black) has a stereotypical Valley Girl acent, lived her whole life in LA. She loves to troll people to show them how racist they are for assuming she's white because of what she sounds like.
This really reminds me of Blackface. This clownish, over-the-top dress-up game intends to make a joke of Black women and their stereotypes. It's not funny to me.
According to her statement its reverent when its done by drag queens, never mind that it is the same exaggerated minstrel show of blackness being celebrated.
@@K9Trixx That's a good point. I don't know what to think about drag most times. The idea that womanhood is performative and a joke is the problem. Like if you are a man, you can wear a dress if you want; it's your life. But wearing one on stage for the sake of performance; idk how to feel about that.
@@moshi1189 We wouldn't make room for well-intentioned blackface, so I don't think it's okay to do the same for drag, which started as a mockery of femininity.
I think while I agree with you on the differences between queer culture and cis het comedians appropriating black woman hood I actually think a lot of white drag queens have fallen into the same tropes of appropriating AAVE and black woman. Ballroom culture came from black, Latino, and brown folks so there may be an overlap in mannerisms and where queer folks grew up but early in her career laganja estranja was probably the worst offender for appropriating black mannerisms and slang as a television persona that backfired and blew up in her face. Or when Eureka o hara on all stars didn't know what the word " Trade" meant and used the word as she pleased till she was told what it actually meant. I think queer men can and have benefited off of the images of black women-ness for profit and acclaim. You can also tell when their slang is all over the place to.
*After the laughter, I realized that a black woman displaying the same behavior would get ridicule not a brand deal. I’m not here to say we can’t enjoy things but, think of all the top black comedians made from the social mediaverse & see the common motif.*
17:42 "Why is a straight man making fun of women (while) in drag more okay than a gay one celebrating a woman (while)in drag." Other very important questions follow this one. Great video. Thanks!
people who do conspiracy theories about the “feminization of black men” annoy me more than i can even speak. most of the time it’s simply done to mock black women. there is no agenda, it’s just that they’re making fun of an already dehumanized groups to get a few laughs. and for genuine situations of black men being feminine, i don’t think ppl realize that the idea that black men need to be incredibly masculine is rooted in racism. they’re engaging in the mandingo stereotype, whilst taking about how the white man is the enemy.
The two dumbest parts about that "feminization of black men" theory is: • The theory makes no sense because there's no reason that society, Hollywood, etc. would want to force black men to be more feminine. All of those people who believe in these type of theories always fail to give a good reason for WHY they'd want to do this (aside from, "muh, It's because liberal bad!"). • Judging from the media, it seems to be the opposite. Black men are almost always portrayed as masculine, with some exceptions, like Lil Nas X or RuPaul.
So are we or are we not living in a system of global white supremacy where the destruction of the black man and the oppression of all people of color is the priority?
@dark red 🙋🏿♂️now YOU said a word. People- Black people- also don't typically understand that one of the reasons we are so concerned with hypermasculinity is because we were so thoroughly Unmanned during slavery and Jim Crow. All that Not Being Able To Stop Our Women From Being Raped, Bowing Down To Little White Kids, Stepping Off the Sidewalk For White People has us programmed to Overperform masculinity. Because anything that's not Man's Man- not is gay. And we're a Christian people🙄- but hearkens back to the time when we were cucked by the system...more overtly.
I agree & I also think it plays into why BW are called masculine because of these stereotypes that blk men portrayed.. Why can’t black women be assertive without being masculine.
@@tamyrah9124 I think theres a pandemic of mentally ill sjws and black women finding random clips from 10 years ago to prove some victimhood story. I haven't seen this done in decades and even when it was done it was for comedy. But apparantely its a pressing issue now and deserving of some contrived video essay. Y'all will do anything but live your lives, black men are bored of your shit, most people are bored of your shit, infact everyone outside of your cult is bored of your shit and these endless victimhood essays/toxic online communities. There I said it.
The white sisterhood of feminism told women to rebel against their husband's who went to work. All while she submitted to her husband. This took women out of their feminine frame.
I love the disclaimer at the beginning of the video, it’s totally fine to be tired! You’re still out here doing the work and that’s inspiring. Your videos make these types of thorny subjects and concepts a little more accessible, so thank you!
I've been seeing Khadija hint at this for a while... I'm so glad to be able to see it at last! They always cover topics like this with so much compassion, research, and patience
@@AngelicTroubleMaker-LaVooDoo24 He couldn't have made it mainstream with just Black women as his audience. Whites enjoy seeing Black women dehumanized more than anyone else. It's true.
@@AngelicTroubleMaker-LaVooDoo24 See I came to say this but I think Tyler Perry is the only one you can say that for, Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence definitely had a mostly male audience. And lot of Black men actually aren’t the biggest fans of Tyler Perry when you think about it. They keep asking why Tyler Perry keeps wearing a dress🫠 In a tragically ironic way, I think it because he has the least dehumanizing portrayal out of all the comedians. Madea is a “well-rounded” character in comparison, she’s not meant for you to just laugh but also show love and give advice.
As far as the "demasculization" argument goes, I think a lot of it comes from the (white supremacist/colonizer) idea that being a gender nonconforming/trans person is inherently humiliating (and therefore funny). Both Black comics and White audiences accept this as truth, but the Black comics gain some separation in assigning the humiliation to another group (Black women and actual gnc/trans Black people). The issue is a huge mess of racism, transphobia, queerphobia, and sexism. Yikes.
Having a black man play black women further aids in the masculinization of (dark skin) black women. Outside of drag, there is usually isn't context given to the character, the other cast member react to these characters as if they are actually black women.
khadija is actually a pretty common name(375th most common. there are more khadijas than there are michelles) , white people are just allergic to anything "foreign."
@@larissalaflore7202 for a certain generation of americans perhaps, but in general it has nothing to do with anything American. The popularity of the name has to do with its assosciation in Islam. Khadija was the name of Muhammed's first wife.
Sometimes I think comedy is the only profession where the bare minimum is accepted. Literally anyone can make stereotypical jokes about oppressed people groups but people love to come to the defense of a comic who makes these lazy jokes.
Yep. I got piled on a comedy tik tok, when I pointed out that the core of the joke was punching down. Apparently I just don’t “understand how comedy works?!” 😝 Like demanding better jokes means I’m ignorant?
this puts it so well. comedy is a craft that not everyone can do. but if you ask people to work to refine their skill/critique their jokes it's "oh the woke mob is cancelling me"
I really hope people are truly starting to see that as a black person you CANNOT make it big in the entertainment business if don’t degrade yourself or your people by being a horrible stereotype or backing politics directly against black people in some way. Every black entertainer in all industries has done one of these things publicly at some point in their career.
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 please read I said either yourself or your people. Are you telling me the music artists we have now represent the best kinds of black people? Also purposely being a vile person for money is definitely considered degrading
@@nonnieJ94 of course they don’t represent the best of black people because what is your definition of best of black people is it perfect clean cut person
@@Imjustbored2023 Yes. Most communities would want clean cut conservative proper people representing their community. No one wants a minstrel or clown 🤡 to represent their community for the world's stage
When she went all the way back to the origin of blackface & exiled groups who jumped in just to punch down on even vulnerable groups to one up to their oppressors..explains a lot of today.
@@Pepperz543 I agree it’s a tough topic and hard to digest. But now is the only time.. there will never, ever be a “good” time because these topics will never be easy to discuss
It's gotten so bad that even SOUTH KOREAN Comedians are Doing Black Minstrelsy for laughs. (Update) They’ve always have done this, it just wasn’t televised.
I would love to hear Khadija's take on the anti-blackness that occurs in K-Pop music culture. But she is not a fan of K-Pop. So.... (sighs)... A girl can dream.
Great video! I mean, like drag, pro wrestling is a also an extreme gender performance. And like you said, we can use those mediums to get through some messages in our art to people who won't/can't read Crenshaw or other important pieces of work. Pushing stereotypes to make people laugh is just useless. Humans are complex enough to have plenty of natural things to be laughed about and not at the expense of a marginalized group of people. Thank you for the education 💜
I've always thought drag was disrespectful, I am not sure exactly why though. Just felt like it shouldn't be done. All I can do is not attend drag shows.
@@jessicayoung3656 are you a cis/straight woman? Its more than okay if you sit out drag shows if you come in there calling queer gender expression disrespectful… it would be preferable
@@jessicayoung3656 Interesting. I see drag queens as accentuating qualities associated with cis womanhood... or what cis women could be if we were socialised to love and fully accept ourselves, rejecting the misogynist limits and punishments placed on us, instead of internalising the shit we've been taught-- to be quiet, toxically selfless, to occupy less space, hate our own and other women's bodies and second-guess ourselves. I think drag queens (re)present many ideals of different kinds of womanhood that one can aspire to.
For the industry it's a two birds one stone kind of thing: humiliation at the expense of black men who perform caricatures at the expense of black women.
The fact that you had trouble finding the one stereotype reminds of the discussions Kat Blaque has had about "instagram face" and the sudden popularity of the vaguely biracial aesthetic among popculter and social media influencer culture. Which are definitely get into the topic of colorism. Thanks for the video, always enjoy hearing your work, hope that it continues to be as rewarding for you to make.
I was called Shaniqua (sorry if I misspelled it) because when I see or hear shit I don't like, I say something about it and I have an attitude, which is just a normal reactionary expression of emotions. I'm opinionated, passionate... And white. Can u imagine, someone called me, a white ass girl "Shaniqua" for speaking up. I gave em hell obviously because if that doesn't show what that person thought of black women and how me having an attitude meant I was a "Shaniqua" idk what does. Racism is pure insanity, but when mixed with misogyny ?? Don't even get me started. Fck any and all racists and misogynists, period.
I have not watched madea productions for yearssss because of this! A white guy referred to me as madea because I’m southern, funny, and loud. Like why is a man stereotyping my culture and essentially cosplaying a woman supposed to be a compliment to me in any form????
It's hard to imagine how pervasive minstrel shows were in America. For decades, they dominated entertainment going from live performances to radio to TV as those mediums got more popular.
They also had one of the most popular characters in the ENTIRE planet, only behind Queen Victoria. That’s INSANE. Lord the pervasiveness is DISGUSTING. They were also always copying slaves and Black Ppl to get their act down. It’s so disgusting.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin I imagine it’s not intentional for current creators who fall into this unfortunate trap. I get a strong impression Khadija is aware of and actively working against this for herself and others.
Apologies *themselves… I’m 47 and cis so even though I identify as gay/queer I still am working on ridding myself of binary thinking… binary thinking is so pervasive and insidious… I apologize but I believe in acknowledging my mistakes and not trying to erase them so I don’t edit my posts ever… mistakes are how I learn and I love Khadija’s brilliant example of teaching by being open about the fact that they are also learning.
Maybe the modern equivalent is all these "reality" shows which are actually scripted. The way the shows are edited and presented feels very modern minstrel show to me. TLC shows are like modern freak shows.
This just made me realize why my interest in Tyler Perry's movies and other "haha BM in dress acts like a stereotype of BW" went down as I got into high school/college. Edit: missing words
I never comment and I haven’t even watched the video yet but THIS is a topic that I’ve thought about so much! If your punchline is dressing up in drag/like a “woman,” you’re simply not funny! *Especially when it’s meant to be a Black women
Deinstitutionalizating this apparent, rampant hatred of women, and thus all things feminine, would help alleviate this problem. A man being compared to a woman is an insult, it implies inferiority. In this conversation, and in conversations regarding homosexuality. Masculinity would get a lot less fragile if people stopped hating women.
Another thing, even if you meet someone you think "Fits the stereotype", it's not on them to change their behavior. Everyone, especially Black women are just trying to live without being mocked for their traits. I'm tired of people mocking "Ghetto" black women, or Masculine Trans women.
For a long time I didn’t think about the negative stereotypes portrayed by these black men “ Imitating” black women. But the older I get the more I see it and I had to withdrawal my support because 95% of the women in my life are black and I never want to support something that gives them a bad rap
@@CTHRTTTCK Umm he was actually more in the wrong in my opinion. Yea violence is not the answer, but words have literally triggered 90 to 95% of the violence that’s happened in the world.
@@OriginalJohnnyCage This kind of sent me into a research rabbit hole. Will Smith is rather simple, it's a simple battery and that’s a misdemeanour, maximum jail sentence of 6 months. Chris could be argued to be defamation if it was false and that would also be a misdemeanour. If it was true then its mockery then it’s a bit greyer, but comics mocking public figures is even greyer. Insulting someone in the usa is legal (or so says Wikipedia). In the Czech Republic it would be illegal apparently. Interestingly, there is a case in Ohio where an adult ridiculed a disabled girl publicly, and well, that was treated as disorderly conduct but that carries no jail time. So all in all, legally mind you, not morally, what Will did does seem to be considered worst.
I was trying to remember who Chris Rock's joke reminded me of, and it's the bully character Caruso on Everybody Hates Chris. You know the bully pos dude in middle school who says those microagressive/racist comments as you walk past in the hallway. That's exactly the shit he'd say.
The formula seems to be: throw black women under the bus with one hand and stretch the other hand to collect the money bag. Very lucrative. Basically, using from their proximity to black women to other them and then mock said other for a profit.
Funnily enough we have the same shit in the Netherlands lol, so this is definitely an international thing. Most of the black male comedians have had a crossdressing phase. A few still keep it going, one even has a stereotypical black woman as the star of all of his comedy movies. I genuinely hate it.
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 That's a separate thing. Sinterklaas celebration involves blackface in the form of the 'Black Pete' character. This is about dutch non-white comedians wearing dresses for the sake of comedy. One that comes to mind is Jürgen Raymann's character Tante Es, a typical Surinamese Aunt. And another one that I think OP referred to is Jandino Asporaat's character Judeska
@@CatMoca most of them do it as comedy. Theres been a splurge of comedians who dress like women and do alot crazy stuff for comedy and views but deep down I think many of them are just drags but hide behind "comedy"
loved the video, great analysis as always! I was especially excited bc i had to unpack the “black women stereotypes” in my undergrad thesis research this year and two books that definitely helped me were “ar’n’t i a woman?” by deborah gray white and “ceramic uncles and celluloid mammies” by patricia a. turner. i’d highly recommend them for anyone wanting to do further reading 💜
Thanks for the recommendations! I’ve heard of that first book but this is the first time I’ve seen the name of the second, I’ll have to check it out :)
This video got me thinking about a personal experience that I couldn’t fully understand. I have written a feature film script, as my last project to get my degree. During the q&a, one of the teachers asked me “but… is your character black? - why didn’t you mention it straight away in the script?”. Now I get it, from this teacher point of view, my character couldn’t be an individual outside of the stereotypes of black characters. That’s freaking saddening.
I've always not liked the comparison of Medea and other straight cis comedians cross dressing to drag queens and the conflation of the two. It's always rubbed me the wrong way but I've not been able to explain it without coming off as gate keeping and not accepting. Thank you for this video and expressing how I've been feeling so eloquently and in ways I can use to better explain how I feel to others. 👍
I'm an AA black woman, but honestly, given how sympathetic (though it comes off as drama p/orn), if it can be called that, he is towards unambiguously black women (for he said he grew up around these women, hearing their woes and feeling for them), I don't really view Madea as mocking of black women, at least not in the same way as the d-bags on social media and the like. I'm quick to think twice about things, but I've not gotten that vibe from Madea, especially during the stageplay days. I saw it as more him wanting to personally embody those women he knew and speak on their behalf (which, yes, can be problematic in itself). Now, does that mean non-black people will receive Madea as they would white men dressing up as old grannies? Who knows. I do know conservative white folks like Madea, though. That Black Jeopardy with Tom Hanks wasn't lying.
I love how this video talks about black masculinity and offensive drag without being negative with shaming transgender people. This video was very inclusive, usually I would tune out videos like this because of the constent shaming of other genders to climb up a heirarchy. I also loved the fact that you bring up tasteful drag queens because I was constently thinking "but what about the drag queens I love?" And last I also wanted to say that there was a cis women actor who played a characature in madias movies her name was hatty. I just hope there will be more drag queens in hollywood films and more women of color in general in popular comedy spaces with the proper payment
I think what's also interesting is how this genre of comedy has become so common that even men who are not black tend to take on these "comedic" roles of black women. And something that could trigger some more thoughts is that episode of The Boondocks about Tyler Perry and actually wanted banned from the network.
"Too too too long" oh, I could've watched a seven hour breakdown of this. The facets of this issue, the layers, the history and the modern context, the already famous and the social media clout chasers--the absolute perfect storm of the intersection of racism, sexism, queerphobia, and everything _within_ those prejudices. God. I don't have anything more to say except that there's so much more to say.
This isnt something I can speak on, but this reminded me of criticisms of some of the humor pushed on rupauls drag race, it often seems like rupaul laughs the hardest when queens play up a stereotypical sassy black woman character (whether they are black women/femmes or not) and so I’m curious if black women viewers find that alienating since I can only experience it as an uncomfortable white viewer
As a Black woman yes. Many people see Black women as characters not humans and it's sick and sad. Times have not changed. The culture is still full of hatred for women who haven't started any wars or chaos. As Black women we are thriving like everyone else but we are the butt of everyone's joke. People would judge us before they even talk with us. It's a mean world to live in as a Black woman.
yeah i felt that way too. so uncomfortable to watch and i was wondering if i was right in thinking it should be considered offensive to black women. i don't think being a drag queen should give you a pass to do that type of shit
as a white person your videos are rly good at snapping my attn to a lot of issues (read: racism lol) in media that maybe never quite sat well with me but i nonetheless kinda passively consumed over the years. just sort of taken for granted concepts and stereotypes that are so prevalent that i never rly stopped to examine. and so i'm rly thankful for the focus and for the perspectives and ideas u share
Woowwww this is so validating. Thank you thank you thank you for speaking on this. I remember growing up thinking it was so odd that black women were often mockingly portrayed by black male comedians, like whole movie series, it was so common and it was so normalized when it was disturbing to watch as a young bw, still is.
So happy to see you back with content and am super grateful for your perspective on this. I have a years long theatre background and when I learned the initial origins were minstrel shows, it’s helped me understand why there’s also a systemic and cultural problem within theatre spaces in regard to Blackness and Black women. I’ve personally left T.P. Work behind awhile ago but I am someone who is currently pursuing comedy and am working on work that can be funny but also meaningful and it’s been exhausting seeing how not just whyte people use easy tropes or jokes and are capitulated to success but also seeing how BM can easily latch on to basic (harmful) tropes in comedy and be successful as well. I appreciate your commentary always! Hope you’re doing well!
I'd argue that David Duchovny's character in Twin Peaks is a bit different from the other examples. The character was a transwoman, and was actually portrayed sympathetically, and not for laughs. Granted, it is a role that would have been better in the hands of an actual transwoman, but it was pretty progressive for the 90s.
This is the only thing that was off to me about this video. The rest of the video is fantastic (as their videos always are) but I was surprised to see Denise mentioned.
Hey there Khadijah…I saw this video & said let me see what she is talking about & I am glad I did because ur views r correct & very beautifully put..I am subscribing now & thank u for ur time making these video’s..Many blessings 💝💯🙏🏾
I appreciate the amount of learning I always get from this channel so much, thank you for all the hard work you and your team put into these video essays!
0:00 I appreciate you expressing support for trans people, thank you ❤️ Edit: checked out your website, found out you're non-binary, your trans-friendly attitude now makes even more sense 😊
I remember seeing 2 movies in the late 1990s with black men (one being Tyler Perry) playing this overly stereotyped black women. I found it grotesque. I asked a black friend, why are black men so obsessed with taking on a stereotypical role of black women? Why don’t they just let black women play black women? I remember the friend just laughing sheepishly, like he had an answer but then couldn’t define the answer and said nothing. Just shrug his shoulders. To me the whole thing was weird. I couldn’t understand why people thought this was ok or let alone funny. 🤷🏻♀️ I saw this exclusively as a humiliation to black women. Then again I’m from another culture and hardly ever saw the minstrel show, nor was I exposed to the racist culture developing from that throughout last century in the USA. So compared to someone who grows up in the USA, I had a void in previous cultural exposure of this kind and had no reference point to the past.
I may have the dates wrong. But it was somewhere around the 2000s but I’m pretty sure I saw one of this movie in very late 1990s, I forgot who the actor was. Also, in Ms. Doubtfire, the character has a backstory, it’s about a man who wants to be closer to his children, and decides to disguise himself as a woman in order to be their nanny. It is also revealed that he’s a man after all.
Tyler Perry movies feature him and a handful of black women so how is he not letting black women play black women, The majority of his cast is black women, the majority of his fans are black women
@@shippendales8543 so you’re going to pretend you don’t understand inter sectionalism. White men have played ww, no one disputed that. Black Ppl have been historically dehumanized , especially in media, starting with black face. Now we have black men furthering the negative stereotypes associated with not only black people but black women. It’s not that hard to understand and it’s almost like you didn’t actually watch the video bc she literally addressed this.
I'm glad you mentioned that black people were also forced into black face to preform this is something that is often forgotten in the history of blackface. being forced to become a characture to be able to preform is disgusting
When you said that some Black men end up putting a dress on by choice (having already gained success), I directly connected it to Eddie Murphy... Mind you, he once said he would and could NEVER dress up as a woman for the sake of comedy back in 1988 (in response to his friend Arsenio Hall who did it in Coming To America if you can remember) Fast forward to now, the gentleman has played three different women 5 TIMES combined, even though he's been HUGE in show-business even before 1988.
Wow ma'am, just Wow. Every time your research and presentation are so well done. Amazed, grateful, proud, and chewing on a LOT of what you said. Thank you again for another great video!
you are so good at clearly articulating your thoughts, I’m grateful I have access to your videos. Would you ever made a video or a short on respectability politics? I’ve never heard the term used before, I’m going to look it up immediately.
Another insightful video! I was always a reluctant consumer of this type of comedy, but to realize that it served double duty to emasculate Black men AND denigrate Black women? I say Medea can go permanently retire, as well as all her “sisters” in comedy.
I love your videos. I love how you look every angle and how different identities intersect. Videos like these about bigotry issues in communities I may not be a part of, but that groups I am apart of have caused, have always been the most eye opening for me worldview wise. Plus I love your personality and voice so that makes the messages all the more penetrating. thank you.
I SQUEALED when I saw you read My Year of Rest and Relaxation. That book still haunts me, makes me sad to think about, and it’s one of my all time favorite books. Arguably one of the best works of fiction ever. Period.
I would actually really like to see it adapted. Like you said the book was haunting. It really reflected my state of mind during a major depressive episode. I've never really read a woman depicted like that in a book. Just intensly unlikable yet alluring. Idk need to revisit it soon.
@@syncopate. If it gets adapted with a good cast, director, and her or even Phoebe Waller Bridge as the screenwriter, I would openly sob like a baby at the end.
In 2022, I definitely prefer the term “desexualized” over “asexual.” Because that’s what it is. Hollywood desexualizes the characters of marginalized groups, versus actually coding them as asexual.
i would just like to point out that David Duchovny was playing a trans woman in Twin Peaks, not a man in drag for a joke. and though his character could've been handled a bit better in the original show, when he played her again in The Return, it was done with full respect. i don't think it sits well with the other examples.
Really glad you're talking about this. It's such a nuanced issue. I find myself conflicted a lot of the time, because so much of the content is actually funny. Tony Talks is hilarious and Karlton Banks. But then I remember how the content is rooted in the mocking of black women, and how harmful that is for us sometimes. I'm just glad you're talking about this.
I would say Karlton is different because he dresses up as characters both male and female and creates an entire character arc and personality for them. I've never been offended from his comedy from a female perspective...
Good video. Kind of reminds me of a conversation a mentor and I once had. She told me to create people not caricatures in my work. Not to create something destructive unless it was for the sake of analysis and provoking thought. She even taught me how to make fun of people that is more like a mirror to society to see how ridiculous, selfish or other negative traits we may have as people versus beating on folks. A good example is Tosh from Tosh.0. He did a great job joking people but was genuinely connected to them and knew how to poke their challenges without judgment or shaming. I think the biggest compliment I’ve gotten as a writer is that my voice doesn’t attack genders, it simply goes off on the issue and follows the PERSON that holds it.
Yay! Really like this one. Having a hard time explaining why, but I really appreciated the text ahead of the Chappelle clip. Felt like a lot of context and a content warning all in a few words. Anyway, I learned things today and it was easy to do 😊
I would love to see a similar analysis of men dressing as women for comedy in the British comedic tradition. I don't know if Khadija would be up for that, or if there is some UK based essayist who have, or could, do a breakdown of it. Cause I grew up seeing endless depictions of cis men comedians dressed as women, often doing their own degrading caricatures. Not of black women, just usually our own marginalised groups, ie working class northern or Irish. The horrible stepmother is like one of the most well-used punching bags of traditional British comedy, along with the stupid old gossip. And I've heard several successful modern British comedians wax lyrical about the 1950s and 60s comedians' women characters and describe them as "iconic moments in British comedy". So those caricatures are obviously still having a significant impact on the minds of at least some major figures in the industry. I dunno, I haven't done any research into it, and I'm sure there's loads of nuance Im missing. Just going of half-remembered impressions of things I watched when I was a kid, and more modern things like Mrs Browns Boys 🤮
W O W. It's interesting to see how two very "different" cultures end up doing the same exact thing but from different POV , because at least in my country (Venezuela) they don't make fun of the race but the class of the woman theiy're making fun of, and you see this with the way they speak, and their names , being the high-class or sifrina having an italian/european/American name whereas the lower class girl always has a tradionally "black name" according to Venezuelan standards, so in the end we do the same and yet people here LOVE to say we're better than the North. anyway, love your vids, you're the best
This brought to mind how, when I'm gaming, sometimes it comes up and I reveal that I am black. I always get the response that i dont 'sound' black. And i feel like it ties in to that perception of how these (mainly white men) ppl are almost conditioned by stereotypes and media to the point where they think they can reliably clock a black person based on their voice. I dont think I've met one person who exclaimed how they were surprised to find out I'm black because I dont 'sound' that way to look critically at that statement and what it says about how they've been taught to see the world and reflect on that. It's usually just hah welp jokes on me I guess and they move on
I’ve been thinking about this so much. But I never got the courage to start a conversation about it. Thank you for this. It’s so reassuring knowing that I’m not the only one who feels this way about this type of comedy.
Sorry for the delay in closed captions y'all, Raúl has been very busy with school this past month. Send him positive vibes for his final exams!! 💕
Best of luck to Raúl!!!
Hugs Raul!! You can do it!!!
You got this Raúl!
Can you do a video on why men can be shirtless, in makeup, heels, a thong, a wig (impersonating a woman or topless woman), but real women can’t? Like why trans men can’t show their nipples before they transition, but after they do it’s fine? It’s discrimination. We should all #Freethenipple or all have to cover them. Maybe dive into how that involves business/capitalism. If women were to free the nip we’d spend a lot less on bras and bikini tops. Maybe dive into the race part of it, how it was fine before in some places and because of influences or colonialism it became immoral. For example I live in what is currently a colony of the US and before they came it was fine and now it’s illegal. I don’t go to the beach as often as I’d like because I feel unsafe and disadvantaged when I see all the shirtless men many of whom also have boobs.
You can do it Raúl!!!! You got this!
so many black men don't know how to be funny outside of belittling black women so let's start there.
Richard Pryor was an amazing comedian and he never belittled black women
Rightt speak on it yet women aren't or can't be "funny'... ironic
Exactly! That’s not talent.
Let them know, Captain!
Prrr! that part
‘Making fun of people is a lot easier than actually honing your skills as a comic’ This is everything!!
This was my exact thought with Chris Rock, sucky improv, shows lack of growth
@@DelainatheDisciple bingo!
Not after seeing trans women get real women pregnant in prison or this transgender on kendra g show talk about she is hetro woman of the trans experience. The transgender and homosexuals have been making fun of straight people with what they have been able to getaway with. Not to mention all the scholarships and job opportunities taken from real women. So you can play the farmers ass and think this is appropriate
@@DelainatheDisciple the Oscar’s wrote the joke and script for it to be said. Nobody’s going at them, only black men because Chris rock made a joke.
Wokeasaurus alert
This has sat wrong with me for years. Back when Tyler Perry was first getting mainstream success, I remember saying to a friend how the trope bothered me. If you want a funny black woman, by all means hire a funny black woman. There's no shortage of them to choose from. Nobody needs a man in a dress to play those roles and ham up weird stereotypes for laughs. It's needlessly lazy and also sexist.
He looked at me like I was crazy.
I feel you but he only did it beause the actress fell ill at the last minute( if I'm not mistaken). He said he was quite reluctant to do it I remember the fuss it caused because I lived down the street. Art imitates life and I've never been offended because he wasn't acting any worse than people that I saw everyday. But I won't say he isn't offensive, just not to me.
Either he's stupid, ignorant, or just a gaslighter.
@@lorrainedillard4692 He only did it because an actress fell ill? Which time? And then he never did it again?
@@lorrainedillard4692 they said they didnt like the trope, if the actress fell ill by all means let a man do it , but most times thats not the case
@@Olive_O_Sudden if that was the case the first time, then considering the success, it would kinda be hard for him to just say, I'm not doing it again, go with a woman. You get on a high speed train, but it's kinda hard to get off if its moving at full speed, it needs to stop.
also, it's funny how black man dressed in drag for comedy is "hilarious" but a black drag queen is "awful, why would they dress up like that?" or whatever they say
i think that has a lot to do with drag queens most often being lgbt, while men doing it as a joke doesn’t challenge heteronormativity at all
@Chloe Could you please elaborate? I am not sure how trans woman and drag queens by themselves would be appropriating black culture or be misogynistic. I am not well versed in racial issues, but I would like to learn more by hearing of those whose voice matters in these topics.
@Chloe trans women aren't acting tho, that's legit just who they are ??
@Chloe woman isn’t a culture how is it appropriation?
@@actualgoblin drag queen are not all trans. A lot identify as male, some even straight males.
“Black face was rooted in the humiliation, dehumanization, and justification of the continued subjugation…” Ok Jesse Jackson! 👏🏾 OAN this video wasn’t as chaotic as you thought, it was one of my favorite videos of yours thus far.
BARS!!!
@Chloe 🤔🤔
@Chloe ...you kinda maybe sorta missed the mark there
@Chloe What does this thought/comment have to do with my original comment?
@Chloe I agree. A lot of drag makes fun of women in a similar way that black face made fun of black people. One episode of drag race specifically, in which the queens would act out pregnant trailer trash women giving birth, really didn't sit well with me...
What always gets me is when white men dress up as women they're most of the time in some kind of sweet old lady kind of light like John Travolta in Hairspray was a lovable mother and is seen more as a drag performance. Same with Mrs. Doubtfire. They're seen as characters that one would seldom connect with mocking White women. But often for Black men its almost resoundingly negative, especially online...
O. M. G you've made an excellent point there
Didn't Anthony Perkins as Norman Bates wear a dress?
@@larissalaflore7202 In a horror movie, yes. It wasn't some kind of way to mock White women though, as he did not evoke any stereotypes. If you want to talk about how men dressing up as women for the sake of evoking fear of femininity and trans people that's a completely different story.
Go back even further. Dustin Hoffman Tootsie
Online arguments for white people doing anything is what I consider to be as a black guy in the 90s put it, white blindness. Blind to the amount of murderers, thieves, men in drag, the horror movie villain that usually white men play in t.v. shows, movies, videogames ect. Eventually you just don't think about it because it's a race you can use to do pretty much anything and nobody cares, which is why white people often don't give a crap.
I guess this is why I love ''a black girl sketch show''. It's written by black women for black women. I don't get all of the jokes, but I'm happy it exists. They showcase many different experiences of black women that are hilarious.
Also I love Khadija's hair ❤
I love it too! I love that it loves blackness but doesn’t make fun of it for existing. 😌 the guest stars….whew 😮💨
where do you watch it ?
in australia we have a show called ‘black comedy’ and its a sketch show like the one you described, made by indigenous people for indigenous people. like you im so happy that show exists. i just love it.
Yet they play male characters as well...so it's okay ..I don't understand this video. btw...that show is funny AS FUCK!
Good Point! Love that show ❣❣
I'd love to get your perspective on fatphobia and how that intersects with race. A lot of these characters aren't just being made fun of for being black women but also for being fat.
DSBW are the face of obesity in the US.
A lot of the characters also tend to be older/matronly women, and I wonder if there’s something to be said about (particularly American) ideas about aging and elders that contributes to older characters as crazy, irrational, or comical in comparison to younger characters. This isn’t exclusive to Black actors, nor is it to say an older character can’t be humorous. Just that the widespread glamorization of youth contributes to negative characterization of older people as weird or obsolete rather than equal members of society and I think we see some of that with these characters as well. I don’t really know where I was going with this but I hope it makes sense
@@PochamaRex This is a good point that needs it's own video
@@PochamaRex There's definitely something there about how older people are de-sexed. Because folks, older people are doin it, and that's a fact. But a) if sexuality among elderly folks is portrayed at all it is portrayed as pathetic or delusional, and b) as a result no-one bats an eye at an older woman being characterized by having a male actor. It's mockery that is made to be inherent to how the character is and acts on screen. She's "mannish", less than a real woman, because she's old.
Similar with fatness (although, for disclosure, I am not old, fat, black OR a woman so my word isn't worth the pixels it's written on). Fatness is coded as being unfeminine (= bad because gender roles) and that is reinforced by casting a man for the role.
Medea 🙄
this made me think of once when billy porter was talking about tuxedo ballgown and how one of the reason people were getting all worked up about it was because he wasn't doing it in a comedic way. he wasn't wearing a dress to be funny. he was honestly just looking good at a fancy event.
Great point
So true. People can’t accept men looking good in a woman’s outfit because femininity isn’t being presented as lesser.
And my GOD does billy porter know how to wear a dress!
Come to think of it, whenever people talk about a guy wear on a dress or a skirt, it’s either about comedy, drag, or a fashion statement. But I rarely if ever hear people talking about a guy wearing it on causally, away from cameras.
@@aisha5156 i feel like men can't wear dresses without being seen as either attention seeking, or some type of so-called "degenerate"
This may be unrelated, but my grandmother loved Geraldine and Madea, but if I even mentioned drag race or if she saw black drag queens she thought there was an agenda to emasculate the black man. I also think it’s funny that Tichina Arnold asked what BW can do to stop the emasculation of BM and it’s like sis… your co star played 2 black women on the show you were on. Ask him.
DRAG THEM HONEY!
Forreal why is it always about the emasculation of men when often times when they ok with it (when straight men do it) they are making fun of women/ making them seem more masculine
👀 Tell it sis. No lies told 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
The star of the show degraded her character Pam for being a dark skin woman. BM emasculate themselves. It is not BWs responsibility to help stop BM from being emasculated. The same way it’s not BPs responsibility to get whites to fix their rascist ways.
And I think that deeply affected Martin. He was battling his demons & really acting out in the 90s and I think it was balancing all those personalities. I think he probably didn’t want to do the drag but he didn’t stand up for himself like Dave. He let them execs make him do it. Then by allowing that on Martin, Came Big Mommas House. If you don’t stand up for yourself the industry will take full advantage of you.
As a Black woman, meeting new people is more me battling all the preconceived and conditioned notions the person has of me, than us just talking to each other about each other. I spend intentional energy to come with an open mind, ready to receive what the person has to offer - while they search and dig for the "black girl box" I fit in. I'm reaching my end of even trying with new people, I think I'll just roll with the few I have for life. I'm really starting to understand why, when I was a kid, older black people around me seemed so done with things - because they were.
This is especially difficult in countries in which there are so few of us. I have to fight against stereotypes and preconceived notions of blackness here in Japan because Japanese people believe whatever white media tells them about us, aside from their own negative feelings towards darker-skinned peoples.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin Yup. But people outside the US swear all over the internet that such prejudices only exist IN the US. I'm so finished.
Omg!!!!! You are my spirit animal. I felt this deep in my soul.
I can relate even though im a dude
@@countessofmontecristo3849 It’s so strange - I try not to step on other people’s toes when it comes to discourse about us as Americans and how we are to other nations in the world (as it’s still possible to subscribe to ideas of American exceptionalism, even as an African-American) but I’ve always wondered about this. How come there are people know enough about black people and culture to replicate the way of speech and dress of black Americans to a T, but are supposedly ignorant to racism in the US? I understand that you can easily pick up these things through the most globally accessible facets of black American culture (namely music, television, etc etc) but there are also tons of public figures who are big players in these areas and they are very transparent about the struggles they face because of being black. I understand that sometimes people genuinely don’t know or understand certain examples of antiblackness that are prevalent in America specifically, but it’s always peeved me how people (especially a certain brand of Americans and westerners) will rush to claim ignorance relating to racism on behalf of people who live in areas like Japan when it’s clear as day that “ignorance” only applies to racism and not anything else related to black people in popular culture
I think this ongoing trend shows how much Black women even in the black community are not given chances to be human. It also erases us and silences Black women in a conversation that directly affects us. We have to bear the brunt of these stereotypes.
There's also the 'life imitates art' part of it. This is part of why in America Blackness is an act and not just a race. You constantly have to prove you are Black by acting a certain way. We end up trying to limit and dim ourselves down to prove we are Black. Of course, not all of us and not all the time.
This is a thesis of itself. Blackness as an ACT
Yeah, blackness as a singular culture which is usually Black American (even tho blk people from diff parts of the US have their own cultures...). But this is because yt eyes have always been superfocused on what blk people near and far are doing especially creatively. And yt dollars are willing to commercialize it rather than just let it be.
No other group has this much intense focus and in a way, this contributes to the internalization of yt / non-blk impressions of blk people by blk people and adds to the erasure of groups like Native Americans, whose culture is quite preserved in Latin America...
God damn, that sounds exhausting.
Love this comment ‼️so true it's exhausting
Highly agree. It comes to a point where we widdle each other and ourselves down to prove to each other that we are black enough 😭
"Race isn't real but racism is." YESSSS thank you for putting that simple ideal into sum words that should make sense to everyone! Imma use this sentence to everybody lol
Thank you for the video, Khadija. I used to think that men dressing as women for comedy as "funny" and "groundbreaking." Once I hit adult age (around 19 - 21 years old), I realized why it is a problem. These types of portrayals affect women, especially Black women. Look at the history, which Khadija points out in the video. Black women end up being the butt of the joke when it comes to these negative portrayals💯
So men of other races dressing up as women is not bad to women? I'm not getting how this is bad for black women, but ok for other races. Your acting like black men are the only ones that have dressed in women's clothes. It is a comedy so it is a caricature. Just like when they do the dumb valley white girl or the Paris Hilton or Kardashian caricature.
I love you khadijha
I wonder how much of this is linked to the fact that in many cultures, historically women were either banned from performing or viewed as sinful harlots for doing so. (Thus, men would play women on stage.) Though, this does remind me of Japan's Takarazuka Revue, which is an entirely female cast, and even the male roles get played by women!
Ugh just the fact that kabuki theatre was created by all female acting troupes… and then it became more popular than the exclusively male noh theatres…. And then men took over kabuki and excluded women from performing ://///
@@peasandmashedpotatoes6246 I didn't know that bit of history, but yeah. Gender segregation on the stage seems to be a tale as old as time. :(
@@peasandmashedpotatoes6246 ironically, kabuki is seen as a dying art form nowadays, while Takarazuka remains extremely popular even among the young generations.
Yes and no... it has more to do with the disjuncture between the male body and the female performance being so uncomfortable to some as to provide laughter. Which is dependent on there being mysogny: a belief the two are fundamentally diffetent Don't forget that when women arr banned from stage male performances as women aren't seen as inherently hilarious. They're "art".
@@babymilksnatcher Quite true, though I think some of that is because Takarazuka scratches a very particular itch, not straying too far from more modern musical theater concepts, and women getting to play very masculine roles. From what I've read, the vast majority of the fan base of this revue is women, and it's the "Otokoyaku" that are the most celebrated, that is, the women playing men. Interestingly, their performance contracts stipulate that they must act very masculine even when not on stage (i.e.: fan meet-and-greets, photo-shoots, interviews) and dress masculine so as to maintain the aura to the audience and fanservice the fantasy. I'm not so sure Kabuki is even remotely interested in that kind of almost pop-culutural energy.
This is giving me flashbacks of being told I sounded like a white girl but also being mocked in the Shanaynay voice
Speak on it!
I feel this HARD.
Going from elementary school in California to middle school in the Midwest was rough; too Black, yet also super White. :/
One of my closest white friends calls me a "white black girl," but she could easily be called a "black white girl" (though I wouldn't do that) cause her family is super blended and she talks/acts like, well, someone who has black family (I won't say a sister, but yeah). I check her whenever she says it because if she, a white woman, doesn't fit that criteria (which, what even is the criteria?), what does it even mean coming from her?
I don't know. I just know there are no white girls like me. No one, regardless of race, could ever. 💅🏽
@@reneedailey1696 Dark skinned black girl from Maryland who spent most of my childhood in Oklahoma (military brat). This speaks to me!
My Best friend ( who is black) has a stereotypical Valley Girl acent, lived her whole life in LA. She loves to troll people to show them how racist they are for assuming she's white because of what she sounds like.
This really reminds me of Blackface. This clownish, over-the-top dress-up game intends to make a joke of Black women and their stereotypes. It's not funny to me.
I wrote this comment before your video started. As always, you nailed the analysis.
According to her statement its reverent when its done by drag queens, never mind that it is the same exaggerated minstrel show of blackness being celebrated.
@@K9Trixx That's a good point. I don't know what to think about drag most times. The idea that womanhood is performative and a joke is the problem. Like if you are a man, you can wear a dress if you want; it's your life. But wearing one on stage for the sake of performance; idk how to feel about that.
@@moshi1189 We wouldn't make room for well-intentioned blackface, so I don't think it's okay to do the same for drag, which started as a mockery of femininity.
@@moshi1189 A person can wear a dress for a performance if they want. A dress is a piece of clothing.
I think while I agree with you on the differences between queer culture and cis het comedians appropriating black woman hood I actually think a lot of white drag queens have fallen into the same tropes of appropriating AAVE and black woman. Ballroom culture came from black, Latino, and brown folks so there may be an overlap in mannerisms and where queer folks grew up but early in her career laganja estranja was probably the worst offender for appropriating black mannerisms and slang as a television persona that backfired and blew up in her face. Or when Eureka o hara on all stars didn't know what the word " Trade" meant and used the word as she pleased till she was told what it actually meant.
I think queer men can and have benefited off of the images of black women-ness for profit and acclaim. You can also tell when their slang is all over the place to.
Oh yes, none-Black Gays LOVE acting like Black Women, especially the white and Brown ones. It’s so disgusting and cringe.
Using trade in the wrong context-💀
I'd love a video about this because I have a lot of thoughts.
Doesn't just about everyone on Drag Race use trade incorrectly?
@@LadyAstarionAncunin Chile, we not getting any shadier here. Lol
*After the laughter, I realized that a black woman displaying the same behavior would get ridicule not a brand deal. I’m not here to say we can’t enjoy things but, think of all the top black comedians made from the social mediaverse & see the common motif.*
Exactly
17:42 "Why is a straight man making fun of women (while) in drag more okay than a gay one celebrating a woman (while)in drag." Other very important questions follow this one.
Great video. Thanks!
people who do conspiracy theories about the “feminization of black men” annoy me more than i can even speak. most of the time it’s simply done to mock black women. there is no agenda, it’s just that they’re making fun of an already dehumanized groups to get a few laughs.
and for genuine situations of black men being feminine, i don’t think ppl realize that the idea that black men need to be incredibly masculine is rooted in racism. they’re engaging in the mandingo stereotype, whilst taking about how the white man is the enemy.
The two dumbest parts about that "feminization of black men" theory is:
• The theory makes no sense because there's no reason that society, Hollywood, etc. would want to force black men to be more feminine. All of those people who believe in these type of theories always fail to give a good reason for WHY they'd want to do this (aside from, "muh, It's because liberal bad!").
• Judging from the media, it seems to be the opposite. Black men are almost always portrayed as masculine, with some exceptions, like Lil Nas X or RuPaul.
Exactly.
So are we or are we not living in a system of global white supremacy where the destruction of the black man and the oppression of all people of color is the priority?
Seems like the masculinization of black women is the intention
@dark red 🙋🏿♂️now YOU said a word. People- Black people- also don't typically understand that one of the reasons we are so concerned with hypermasculinity is because we were so thoroughly Unmanned during slavery and Jim Crow. All that Not Being Able To Stop Our Women From Being Raped, Bowing Down To Little White Kids, Stepping Off the Sidewalk For White People has us programmed to Overperform masculinity. Because anything that's not Man's Man- not is gay. And we're a Christian people🙄- but hearkens back to the time when we were cucked by the system...more overtly.
I see it as not the emasculation of BM but the over masculinization of BW
I see it as both.
I agree & I also think it plays into why BW are called masculine because of these stereotypes that blk men portrayed.. Why can’t black women be assertive without being masculine.
BM have enough BALANCE for the action to mot affect their masculinity but primarily assault Black women's images.
@@tamyrah9124 I think theres a pandemic of mentally ill sjws and black women finding random clips from 10 years ago to prove some victimhood story. I haven't seen this done in decades and even when it was done it was for comedy. But apparantely its a pressing issue now and deserving of some contrived video essay. Y'all will do anything but live your lives, black men are bored of your shit, most people are bored of your shit, infact everyone outside of your cult is bored of your shit and these endless victimhood essays/toxic online communities. There I said it.
The white sisterhood of feminism told women to rebel against their husband's who went to work. All while she submitted to her husband. This took women out of their feminine frame.
I love the disclaimer at the beginning of the video, it’s totally fine to be tired! You’re still out here doing the work and that’s inspiring.
Your videos make these types of thorny subjects and concepts a little more accessible, so thank you!
💕
I've been seeing Khadija hint at this for a while... I'm so glad to be able to see it at last! They always cover topics like this with so much compassion, research, and patience
The most uncomfortable fact to me is that the biggest audiences of a lot of these comedians are not black women
Not surprising.
Yup, they’re white. 🤢
Which ones are not bc Tyler Perry's audiences are majority of Black women.
@@AngelicTroubleMaker-LaVooDoo24 He couldn't have made it mainstream with just Black women as his audience. Whites enjoy seeing Black women dehumanized more than anyone else. It's true.
@@AngelicTroubleMaker-LaVooDoo24 See I came to say this but I think Tyler Perry is the only one you can say that for, Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence definitely had a mostly male audience. And lot of Black men actually aren’t the biggest fans of Tyler Perry when you think about it. They keep asking why Tyler Perry keeps wearing a dress🫠 In a tragically ironic way, I think it because he has the least dehumanizing portrayal out of all the comedians. Madea is a “well-rounded” character in comparison, she’s not meant for you to just laugh but also show love and give advice.
You may be tired but you’re reinvigorating our Critical Thinking and the fact that you articulate arguments so beautifully.
As far as the "demasculization" argument goes, I think a lot of it comes from the (white supremacist/colonizer) idea that being a gender nonconforming/trans person is inherently humiliating (and therefore funny).
Both Black comics and White audiences accept this as truth, but the Black comics gain some separation in assigning the humiliation to another group (Black women and actual gnc/trans Black people). The issue is a huge mess of racism, transphobia, queerphobia, and sexism. Yikes.
Agreed. People need to start decolonizing not only in race, but also gender.
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Gender was never a introduce from colonialism. Gender has always existed within literally every culture
Having a black man play black women further aids in the masculinization of (dark skin) black women. Outside of drag, there is usually isn't context given to the character, the other cast member react to these characters as if they are actually black women.
Trust me Madea has a prostate!
khadija is actually a pretty common name(375th most common. there are more khadijas than there are michelles) , white people are just allergic to anything "foreign."
See love the facts!❤️
@@larissalaflore7202 Khadija was the name of prophet Muhammad's first wife. So its probably more of a popular name because of islam.
@@larissalaflore7202 for a certain generation of americans perhaps, but in general it has nothing to do with anything American. The popularity of the name has to do with its assosciation in Islam. Khadija was the name of Muhammed's first wife.
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@@coyoteblue4027 what the hell is American??? Which culture? Basically white American culture
Khadija 😮💨 that face you making in the thumb brought me back to the Bahamas when my ma found my report card balled up in the bottom of my bookbag
Oh, my goodness.... LOL...
Also, good to see you here again, Foreign. I'm so glad I subscribed to your channel. ☺️ 💓 💕
Man, your stories never fail to make me laugh, also just subscribed to your channel. Keep up the wonderful work!
This is making me check out Foreign's channel. Shout out to yall
Subscribed off titles alone. I'll check it out after i finish this video. Now let me focus😂
I totally read that in your accent
A bunch of Nigerian comedians thrive through this and they only humiliate women
Yup
Sometimes I think comedy is the only profession where the bare minimum is accepted. Literally anyone can make stereotypical jokes about oppressed people groups but people love to come to the defense of a comic who makes these lazy jokes.
Spilled.
Yep.
I got piled on a comedy tik tok, when I pointed out that the core of the joke was punching down.
Apparently I just don’t “understand how comedy works?!” 😝
Like demanding better jokes means I’m ignorant?
this puts it so well. comedy is a craft that not everyone can do. but if you ask people to work to refine their skill/critique their jokes it's "oh the woke mob is cancelling me"
THIS!
When oppression starts talking about women men are going to get offended no matter their race
I really hope people are truly starting to see that as a black person you CANNOT make it big in the entertainment business if don’t degrade yourself or your people by being a horrible stereotype or backing politics directly against black people in some way. Every black entertainer in all industries has done one of these things publicly at some point in their career.
You mean Comedy industry. In the Music Industry you don’t have to degrade yourself. Pls don’t spread misinformation like that.
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 please read I said either yourself or your people. Are you telling me the music artists we have now represent the best kinds of black people? Also purposely being a vile person for money is definitely considered degrading
@@nonnieJ94 of course they don’t represent the best of black people because what is your definition of best of black people is it perfect clean cut person
Yes .... Teyonnah Paris did play in " Slave Play" it s disgusting.
@@Imjustbored2023 Yes. Most communities would want clean cut conservative proper people representing their community. No one wants a minstrel or clown 🤡 to represent their community for the world's stage
When she went all the way back to the origin of blackface & exiled groups who jumped in just to punch down on even vulnerable groups to one up to their oppressors..explains a lot of today.
That part! But I don’t know if anyone ready for that convo just yet, especially in terms of what it means for modern day “allyship”. 👀
@@Pepperz543 The conversation has already been happening on Tiktok.
@@Pepperz543 I agree it’s a tough topic and hard to digest. But now is the only time.. there will never, ever be a “good” time because these topics will never be easy to discuss
it definitely shows today too through how antiblack nonblack poc in order to achieve white acceptance
Khadija is The Riddler of commentary UA-cam while also being the Batman and the Joker. Love it.
Not y'all adding more villains to my arsenal
Batman is a fascist, so I hope not! (I like Batman, but still.)
@@LadyAstarionAncunin only frank miller' version is and probably zack synder.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin wait. What. How? I'm genuinely curious. I've never thought about Batman they deeply lol
@@esmeraldagreengate4354 Kay and Skittles has a great recent video about this!
Thanks for this video!! I love your content so much!!!
Just finished watching Dune part 7 great job!!!
💕thank you
Omg Quinn!
Yo, Quinn!?
Your videos on Hyperion are fucking great!
Quinn!? Hi! I'm so happy to see you here
It's gotten so bad that even SOUTH KOREAN Comedians are Doing Black Minstrelsy for laughs.
(Update)
They’ve always have done this, it just wasn’t televised.
I was about to say, Chile they’ve been doing it. It’s disgusting.
I would love to hear Khadija's take on the anti-blackness that occurs in K-Pop music culture. But she is not a fan of K-Pop. So.... (sighs)... A girl can dream.
Sorry can you please link an article? This looks so interesting to read up on! I knew about the anti blackness but not this!
Great video! I mean, like drag, pro wrestling is a also an extreme gender performance. And like you said, we can use those mediums to get through some messages in our art to people who won't/can't read Crenshaw or other important pieces of work. Pushing stereotypes to make people laugh is just useless. Humans are complex enough to have plenty of natural things to be laughed about and not at the expense of a marginalized group of people. Thank you for the education 💜
I've always thought drag was disrespectful, I am not sure exactly why though. Just felt like it shouldn't be done. All I can do is not attend drag shows.
@@jessicayoung3656 everyday life is not less of a performance than drag. Drag is celebrating not disrespectful.
@@jessicayoung3656 are you a cis/straight woman? Its more than okay if you sit out drag shows if you come in there calling queer gender expression disrespectful… it would be preferable
@@jessicayoung3656 Interesting. I see drag queens as accentuating qualities associated with cis womanhood... or what cis women could be if we were socialised to love and fully accept ourselves, rejecting the misogynist limits and punishments placed on us, instead of internalising the shit we've been taught-- to be quiet, toxically selfless, to occupy less space, hate our own and other women's bodies and second-guess ourselves. I think drag queens (re)present many ideals of different kinds of womanhood that one can aspire to.
@@jessicayoung3656 women are drag queens too lol
For the industry it's a two birds one stone kind of thing: humiliation at the expense of black men who perform caricatures at the expense of black women.
I'd argue that Joanne the Scammer would be a great example of the tragic mulatta trope.
I still love her though 🤣
Yes!!! He’s a perfect example of the lighter skin/ mixed women trope
Joanne The Scammer would say she is caucasian and living in her caucasian home.
@@nebulamars1488 🤣🤣🤣
I’m sorry, but this trope sounds so hilarious. 😭
PERFECT example!!
The fact that you had trouble finding the one stereotype reminds of the discussions Kat Blaque has had about "instagram face" and the sudden popularity of the vaguely biracial aesthetic among popculter and social media influencer culture. Which are definitely get into the topic of colorism.
Thanks for the video, always enjoy hearing your work, hope that it continues to be as rewarding for you to make.
I was called Shaniqua (sorry if I misspelled it) because when I see or hear shit I don't like, I say something about it and I have an attitude, which is just a normal reactionary expression of emotions. I'm opinionated, passionate... And white. Can u imagine, someone called me, a white ass girl "Shaniqua" for speaking up. I gave em hell obviously because if that doesn't show what that person thought of black women and how me having an attitude meant I was a "Shaniqua" idk what does. Racism is pure insanity, but when mixed with misogyny ?? Don't even get me started.
Fck any and all racists and misogynists, period.
I have not watched madea productions for yearssss because of this! A white guy referred to me as madea because I’m southern, funny, and loud. Like why is a man stereotyping my culture and essentially cosplaying a woman supposed to be a compliment to me in any form????
EW!🤢🤢🤢
@olivia young okay! Like at all
I can't even imagine... I'm sorry girl
It's hard to imagine how pervasive minstrel shows were in America. For decades, they dominated entertainment going from live performances to radio to TV as those mediums got more popular.
They also had one of the most popular characters in the ENTIRE planet, only behind Queen Victoria. That’s INSANE. Lord the pervasiveness is DISGUSTING. They were also always copying slaves and Black Ppl to get their act down. It’s so disgusting.
They're still ongoing. It's black actors now, on social media/YT.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin I imagine it’s not intentional for current creators who fall into this unfortunate trap. I get a strong impression Khadija is aware of and actively working against this for herself and others.
Apologies *themselves… I’m 47 and cis so even though I identify as gay/queer I still am working on ridding myself of binary thinking… binary thinking is so pervasive and insidious… I apologize but I believe in acknowledging my mistakes and not trying to erase them so I don’t edit my posts ever… mistakes are how I learn and I love Khadija’s brilliant example of teaching by being open about the fact that they are also learning.
Maybe the modern equivalent is all these "reality" shows which are actually scripted. The way the shows are edited and presented feels very modern minstrel show to me. TLC shows are like modern freak shows.
Wake up babe…a new Khadija banger just dropped!!
thanks babes
This just made me realize why my interest in Tyler Perry's movies and other "haha BM in dress acts like a stereotype of BW" went down as I got into high school/college.
Edit: missing words
I never comment and I haven’t even watched the video yet but THIS is a topic that I’ve thought about so much! If your punchline is dressing up in drag/like a “woman,” you’re simply not funny! *Especially when it’s meant to be a Black women
I agree with you. What's the point of dressing up as a woman if you're funny? A wig is not bad (depending), but dressing head to toe as a woman😬...
Deinstitutionalizating this apparent, rampant hatred of women, and thus all things feminine, would help alleviate this problem. A man being compared to a woman is an insult, it implies inferiority. In this conversation, and in conversations regarding homosexuality. Masculinity would get a lot less fragile if people stopped hating women.
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Another thing, even if you meet someone you think "Fits the stereotype", it's not on them to change their behavior. Everyone, especially Black women are just trying to live without being mocked for their traits. I'm tired of people mocking "Ghetto" black women, or Masculine Trans women.
For a long time I didn’t think about the negative stereotypes portrayed by these black men “ Imitating” black women. But the older I get the more I see it and I had to withdrawal my support because 95% of the women in my life are black and I never want to support something that gives them a bad rap
I was thinking about this when Chris Rock made fun of Jada. Black men make money out of disrespecting and stepping on Black women.
@@CTHRTTTCK Umm he was actually more in the wrong in my opinion. Yea violence is not the answer, but words have literally triggered 90 to 95% of the violence that’s happened in the world.
@@CTHRTTTCK Will is wrong for what exactly? I don't condone violence but I don't why Will is getting even more hate than Chris for defending Jada?
@@OriginalJohnnyCage This kind of sent me into a research rabbit hole. Will Smith is rather simple, it's a simple battery and that’s a misdemeanour, maximum jail sentence of 6 months. Chris could be argued to be defamation if it was false and that would also be a misdemeanour. If it was true then its mockery then it’s a bit greyer, but comics mocking public figures is even greyer. Insulting someone in the usa is legal (or so says Wikipedia). In the Czech Republic it would be illegal apparently. Interestingly, there is a case in Ohio where an adult ridiculed a disabled girl publicly, and well, that was treated as disorderly conduct but that carries no jail time. So all in all, legally mind you, not morally, what Will did does seem to be considered worst.
I was trying to remember who Chris Rock's joke reminded me of, and it's the bully character Caruso on Everybody Hates Chris. You know the bully pos dude in middle school who says those microagressive/racist comments as you walk past in the hallway. That's exactly the shit he'd say.
The formula seems to be: throw black women under the bus with one hand and stretch the other hand to collect the money bag. Very lucrative.
Basically, using from their proximity to black women to other them and then mock said other for a profit.
"Ya know better, ya do better!" ideal advice ... thank you!
Funnily enough we have the same shit in the Netherlands lol, so this is definitely an international thing. Most of the black male comedians have had a crossdressing phase. A few still keep it going, one even has a stereotypical black woman as the star of all of his comedy movies. I genuinely hate it.
Isn’t it that one holiday in Netherlands?
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 That's a separate thing. Sinterklaas celebration involves blackface in the form of the 'Black Pete' character.
This is about dutch non-white comedians wearing dresses for the sake of comedy. One that comes to mind is Jürgen Raymann's character Tante Es, a typical Surinamese Aunt.
And another one that I think OP referred to is Jandino Asporaat's character Judeska
Same here in naija too🇳🇬
@@missfefeloves wait Nigerian straight men dress as women to mock and dehumanize Nigerian women??????? But why???
@@CatMoca most of them do it as comedy. Theres been a splurge of comedians who dress like women and do alot crazy stuff for comedy and views but deep down I think many of them are just drags but hide behind "comedy"
loved the video, great analysis as always! I was especially excited bc i had to unpack the “black women stereotypes” in my undergrad thesis research this year and two books that definitely helped me were “ar’n’t i a woman?” by deborah gray white and “ceramic uncles and celluloid mammies” by patricia a. turner. i’d highly recommend them for anyone wanting to do further reading 💜
Thanks for the recommendations! I’ve heard of that first book but this is the first time I’ve seen the name of the second, I’ll have to check it out :)
Great recommendations! Thank you
This video got me thinking about a personal experience that I couldn’t fully understand. I have written a feature film script, as my last project to get my degree. During the q&a, one of the teachers asked me “but… is your character black? - why didn’t you mention it straight away in the script?”. Now I get it, from this teacher point of view, my character couldn’t be an individual outside of the stereotypes of black characters. That’s freaking saddening.
I've always not liked the comparison of Medea and other straight cis comedians cross dressing to drag queens and the conflation of the two. It's always rubbed me the wrong way but I've not been able to explain it without coming off as gate keeping and not accepting. Thank you for this video and expressing how I've been feeling so eloquently and in ways I can use to better explain how I feel to others. 👍
I'm an AA black woman, but honestly, given how sympathetic (though it comes off as drama p/orn), if it can be called that, he is towards unambiguously black women (for he said he grew up around these women, hearing their woes and feeling for them), I don't really view Madea as mocking of black women, at least not in the same way as the d-bags on social media and the like. I'm quick to think twice about things, but I've not gotten that vibe from Madea, especially during the stageplay days. I saw it as more him wanting to personally embody those women he knew and speak on their behalf (which, yes, can be problematic in itself).
Now, does that mean non-black people will receive Madea as they would white men dressing up as old grannies? Who knows. I do know conservative white folks like Madea, though. That Black Jeopardy with Tom Hanks wasn't lying.
I love how this video talks about black masculinity and offensive drag without being negative with shaming transgender people. This video was very inclusive, usually I would tune out videos like this because of the constent shaming of other genders to climb up a heirarchy. I also loved the fact that you bring up tasteful drag queens because I was constently thinking "but what about the drag queens I love?" And last I also wanted to say that there was a cis women actor who played a characature in madias movies her name was hatty. I just hope there will be more drag queens in hollywood films and more women of color in general in popular comedy spaces with the proper payment
I think what's also interesting is how this genre of comedy has become so common that even men who are not black tend to take on these "comedic" roles of black women. And something that could trigger some more thoughts is that episode of The Boondocks about Tyler Perry and actually wanted banned from the network.
What episode of the boondocks is that?
@@Deadly_DUP Season 3, Episode 8
THIS is the topic I’ve been WAITING for someone to really do a deep dive on, and who better to do it than Khadija!!!👏👏👏👏
"Too too too long" oh, I could've watched a seven hour breakdown of this. The facets of this issue, the layers, the history and the modern context, the already famous and the social media clout chasers--the absolute perfect storm of the intersection of racism, sexism, queerphobia, and everything _within_ those prejudices. God. I don't have anything more to say except that there's so much more to say.
It really could be a 7 hour long breakdown. I WILL be watching. 😭😍
We need a full documentary
This isnt something I can speak on, but this reminded me of criticisms of some of the humor pushed on rupauls drag race, it often seems like rupaul laughs the hardest when queens play up a stereotypical sassy black woman character (whether they are black women/femmes or not) and so I’m curious if black women viewers find that alienating since I can only experience it as an uncomfortable white viewer
As a Black woman yes. Many people see Black women as characters not humans and it's sick and sad. Times have not changed. The culture is still full of hatred for women who haven't started any wars or chaos. As Black women we are thriving like everyone else but we are the butt of everyone's joke. People would judge us before they even talk with us. It's a mean world to live in as a Black woman.
yeah i felt that way too. so uncomfortable to watch and i was wondering if i was right in thinking it should be considered offensive to black women. i don't think being a drag queen should give you a pass to do that type of shit
as a white person your videos are rly good at snapping my attn to a lot of issues (read: racism lol) in media that maybe never quite sat well with me but i nonetheless kinda passively consumed over the years. just sort of taken for granted concepts and stereotypes that are so prevalent that i never rly stopped to examine. and so i'm rly thankful for the focus and for the perspectives and ideas u share
Woowwww this is so validating. Thank you thank you thank you for speaking on this. I remember growing up thinking it was so odd that black women were often mockingly portrayed by black male comedians, like whole movie series, it was so common and it was so normalized when it was disturbing to watch as a young bw, still is.
Wow! One of the most eloquent monologues on race and womanhood. Enjoyed tremendously!
I am here for the whole thing, "chaotic" & all! Thank you for showing up as your full(er) self while still staying in integrity & love! 💜🙌🏾💜
So happy to see you back with content and am super grateful for your perspective on this. I have a years long theatre background and when I learned the initial origins were minstrel shows, it’s helped me understand why there’s also a systemic and cultural problem within theatre spaces in regard to Blackness and Black women. I’ve personally left T.P. Work behind awhile ago but I am someone who is currently pursuing comedy and am working on work that can be funny but also meaningful and it’s been exhausting seeing how not just whyte people use easy tropes or jokes and are capitulated to success but also seeing how BM can easily latch on to basic (harmful) tropes in comedy and be successful as well. I appreciate your commentary always! Hope you’re doing well!
@@swisschocolate95 thank you 😊
The way you explain your videos is just wow👏👏✨
I'd argue that David Duchovny's character in Twin Peaks is a bit different from the other examples. The character was a transwoman, and was actually portrayed sympathetically, and not for laughs. Granted, it is a role that would have been better in the hands of an actual transwoman, but it was pretty progressive for the 90s.
I've seen it described as "the least worst" representation at the time
I paused the vid to say that! thank you for mentioning this!
This is the only thing that was off to me about this video. The rest of the video is fantastic (as their videos always are) but I was surprised to see Denise mentioned.
@@okamiseven Right. Especially when you consider Denise made her appearance three years before the release of Ace Ventura.
@@kanakawase and then the third season in 2017. Still Duchovny, but even clearer in affirming a pro-trans stance
I’ve had this conversation for years! Thank you for making this video
This is my first time noticing "Khadijon Mustard" and I wasn't ready😂😂😂
I'm surprised you didn't mention 30 Rock. They had a whole plotline about Tracy refusing to do this, and then later doing it and it being a hit.
I also remember Keenan Thompson putting his foot down, and didn’t want to wear dresses anymore on SNL. He made them hire a black Woman
Hey there Khadijah…I saw this video & said let me see what she is talking about & I am glad I did because ur views r correct & very beautifully put..I am subscribing now & thank u for ur time making these video’s..Many blessings 💝💯🙏🏾
I appreciate the amount of learning I always get from this channel so much, thank you for all the hard work you and your team put into these video essays!
0:00 I appreciate you expressing support for trans people, thank you ❤️
Edit: checked out your website, found out you're non-binary, your trans-friendly attitude now makes even more sense 😊
I remember seeing 2 movies in the late 1990s with black men (one being Tyler Perry) playing this overly stereotyped black women. I found it grotesque. I asked a black friend, why are black men so obsessed with taking on a stereotypical role of black women? Why don’t they just let black women play black women? I remember the friend just laughing sheepishly, like he had an answer but then couldn’t define the answer and said nothing. Just shrug his shoulders. To me the whole thing was weird. I couldn’t understand why people thought this was ok or let alone funny. 🤷🏻♀️ I saw this exclusively as a humiliation to black women. Then again I’m from another culture and hardly ever saw the minstrel show, nor was I exposed to the racist culture developing from that throughout last century in the USA. So compared to someone who grows up in the USA, I had a void in previous cultural exposure of this kind and had no reference point to the past.
@@shippendales8543 dude the 90s was still only 10 years ago to some of us 😬 90s, 2005 same thing lol
I may have the dates wrong. But it was somewhere around the 2000s but I’m pretty sure I saw one of this movie in very late 1990s, I forgot who the actor was. Also, in Ms. Doubtfire, the character has a backstory, it’s about a man who wants to be closer to his children, and decides to disguise himself as a woman in order to be their nanny. It is also revealed that he’s a man after all.
Tyler Perry movies feature him and a handful of black women so how is he not letting black women play black women, The majority of his cast is black women, the majority of his fans are black women
@@jamesg9583 way to deliberately miss her point entirely.
@@shippendales8543 so you’re going to pretend you don’t understand inter sectionalism. White men have played ww, no one disputed that. Black Ppl have been historically dehumanized , especially in media, starting with black face. Now we have black men furthering the negative stereotypes associated with not only black people but black women. It’s not that hard to understand and it’s almost like you didn’t actually watch the video bc she literally addressed this.
I'm glad you mentioned that black people were also forced into black face to preform this is something that is often forgotten in the history of blackface. being forced to become a characture to be able to preform is disgusting
When you said that some Black men end up putting a dress on by choice (having already gained success), I directly connected it to Eddie Murphy...
Mind you, he once said he would and could NEVER dress up as a woman for the sake of comedy back in 1988 (in response to his friend Arsenio Hall who did it in Coming To America if you can remember)
Fast forward to now, the gentleman has played three different women 5 TIMES combined, even though he's been HUGE in show-business even before 1988.
Wow ma'am, just Wow. Every time your research and presentation are so well done. Amazed, grateful, proud, and chewing on a LOT of what you said. Thank you again for another great video!
you are so good at clearly articulating your thoughts, I’m grateful I have access to your videos. Would you ever made a video or a short on respectability politics? I’ve never heard the term used before, I’m going to look it up immediately.
Very happy that you addressed this topic. Great video once again!
Another insightful video! I was always a reluctant consumer of this type of comedy, but to realize that it served double duty to emasculate Black men AND denigrate Black women? I say Medea can go permanently retire, as well as all her “sisters” in comedy.
I love your videos. I love how you look every angle and how different identities intersect. Videos like these about bigotry issues in communities I may not be a part of, but that groups I am apart of have caused, have always been the most eye opening for me worldview wise. Plus I love your personality and voice so that makes the messages all the more penetrating. thank you.
I SQUEALED when I saw you read My Year of Rest and Relaxation. That book still haunts me, makes me sad to think about, and it’s one of my all time favorite books. Arguably one of the best works of fiction ever. Period.
It's a sad, haunting favorite lol... should really read it? I'm intrigued and freaked out at the same time
@@tisheetee oh yes. It’s got some problematic moments don’t get me wrong, but they serve to the purpose of the ending.
I would actually really like to see it adapted. Like you said the book was haunting. It really reflected my state of mind during a major depressive episode. I've never really read a woman depicted like that in a book. Just intensly unlikable yet alluring. Idk need to revisit it soon.
@@syncopate. If it gets adapted with a good cast, director, and her or even Phoebe Waller Bridge as the screenwriter, I would openly sob like a baby at the end.
In 2022, I definitely prefer the term “desexualized” over “asexual.” Because that’s what it is. Hollywood desexualizes the characters of marginalized groups, versus actually coding them as asexual.
They either desexualize them or over-sexualize them no in between
i would just like to point out that David Duchovny was playing a trans woman in Twin Peaks, not a man in drag for a joke. and though his character could've been handled a bit better in the original show, when he played her again in The Return, it was done with full respect. i don't think it sits well with the other examples.
Really glad you're talking about this. It's such a nuanced issue. I find myself conflicted a lot of the time, because so much of the content is actually funny. Tony Talks is hilarious and Karlton Banks. But then I remember how the content is rooted in the mocking of black women, and how harmful that is for us sometimes. I'm just glad you're talking about this.
I would say Karlton is different because he dresses up as characters both male and female and creates an entire character arc and personality for them. I've never been offended from his comedy from a female perspective...
Your hotep impersonation had me WEAK 😂 😂
I love whenever someone addresses this topic. Very well done!
Good video. Kind of reminds me of a conversation a mentor and I once had. She told me to create people not caricatures in my work. Not to create something destructive unless it was for the sake of analysis and provoking thought. She even taught me how to make fun of people that is more like a mirror to society to see how ridiculous, selfish or other negative traits we may have as people versus beating on folks. A good example is Tosh from Tosh.0. He did a great job joking people but was genuinely connected to them and knew how to poke their challenges without judgment or shaming. I think the biggest compliment I’ve gotten as a writer is that my voice doesn’t attack genders, it simply goes off on the issue and follows the PERSON that holds it.
Yay! Really like this one. Having a hard time explaining why, but I really appreciated the text ahead of the Chappelle clip. Felt like a lot of context and a content warning all in a few words. Anyway, I learned things today and it was easy to do 😊
I would love to see a similar analysis of men dressing as women for comedy in the British comedic tradition. I don't know if Khadija would be up for that, or if there is some UK based essayist who have, or could, do a breakdown of it. Cause I grew up seeing endless depictions of cis men comedians dressed as women, often doing their own degrading caricatures. Not of black women, just usually our own marginalised groups, ie working class northern or Irish. The horrible stepmother is like one of the most well-used punching bags of traditional British comedy, along with the stupid old gossip. And I've heard several successful modern British comedians wax lyrical about the 1950s and 60s comedians' women characters and describe them as "iconic moments in British comedy". So those caricatures are obviously still having a significant impact on the minds of at least some major figures in the industry.
I dunno, I haven't done any research into it, and I'm sure there's loads of nuance Im missing. Just going of half-remembered impressions of things I watched when I was a kid, and more modern things like Mrs Browns Boys 🤮
W O W. It's interesting to see how two very "different" cultures end up doing the same exact thing but from different POV , because at least in my country (Venezuela) they don't make fun of the race but the class of the woman theiy're making fun of, and you see this with the way they speak, and their names , being the high-class or sifrina having an italian/european/American name whereas the lower class girl always has a tradionally "black name" according to Venezuelan standards, so in the end we do the same and yet people here LOVE to say we're better than the North. anyway, love your vids, you're the best
They are making fun of the race. The class and race are intersecting here.
I never considered this topic before. Thank you for the video and your commentary on the topic!
This brought to mind how, when I'm gaming, sometimes it comes up and I reveal that I am black. I always get the response that i dont 'sound' black. And i feel like it ties in to that perception of how these (mainly white men) ppl are almost conditioned by stereotypes and media to the point where they think they can reliably clock a black person based on their voice. I dont think I've met one person who exclaimed how they were surprised to find out I'm black because I dont 'sound' that way to look critically at that statement and what it says about how they've been taught to see the world and reflect on that. It's usually just hah welp jokes on me I guess and they move on
I’ve been thinking about this so much. But I never got the courage to start a conversation about it. Thank you for this. It’s so reassuring knowing that I’m not the only one who feels this way about this type of comedy.
Have u ever researched what black ppl did after slavery ? And after the war they were freed for ? It’s mind blowing !!!!!
Girl what is it!?
Hi Ivy Dearrrr! ☺️💕
girl what they do💀
There’s so many things this does not narrow it down lmao
Not as mind blowing as what they were forced to do as slaves. You gaslighting much?
Preach girl! I love it! You hit this dynamic from EVERY point leaving NOTHING untouched! A must-see right here. 👍🏾🙌🏾
Ooo now this is the topic we’ve needed someone to talk about for time 😤