Why The Learning Tree is Chris Jericho's Worst Gimmick
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
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Chris Jericho, known for his incredible talent and versatile personas, has had a career filled with memorable moments and characters. Known to reinvent himself according to the time from Lionheart to The Codebreaker; Y2J to The Painmaker he had done it all. However, his latest gimmick "The Learning Tree" stands out as a particularly misguided attempt for now.
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I think Jericho's Learning Tree is the living embodiment of How Do You Do, Fellow Kids meme
makes it even more funny if the rumor of it being a shot at CM Punk are true
I think that’s kind of the point it’s meant to be a parody of the face of the company, legend, babyface who, in reality, is out of touch, sneakily surrounds himself with other people to get an advantage and backstage politics his way into success.
That’s why he says “that’s not gonna work for me brother”
He’s also meant to be an anti tweener, the opposite of stone cold, he’s an anti hero who behaves heelishly but is actually fighting for the fans.
Chris Jericho is the opposite, he’s apparently harmless and seems to give people advice, but when it comes to it, his out for himself only.
@@DaManWithDaStuffit is not parody if it is ironic lol
the learning tree is like hulk hogan being honest
Jericho is significantly older than Hogan was in WCW or even when Hogan came back to the WWF in 2002.
@@zoso7889+ Hogan was in much better shape & still looked like a Monster
@@Ghost-Face420and his in ring was always shit
Yall don’t understand the joke
"That doesnt work for me brother"
Feel like Jericho is trying to take legit criticism towards him and turn it into a parody without addressing the original criticism.
That's exactly what Vince and co. have always done with any controversy involving the WWE and/or its wrestlers (Shawn's past, Montreal screwjob, Edge and Lita, etc.). It logically shouldn't work, but thanks to human nature, it does.
Just mock and deny any criticism (legit or not) directed at you until the other side gets tired of trying to get you to own up or they get pressured into giving up by those who are over it. Not to get political, but Trump is good at this too.
Hmm. Life imitates art.
What good would it do him to address it, if he does, people will just accuse him of getting defensive, it's a no-win
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.
-Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
-John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
If you are in North America, please go check out any of the churches available to you: PCA, OPC, Rpcna, Urcna, or a Canrc church.
(These are conservative and actual Reformed/Presbyterian churches)
If you’re Scottish, I recommend the Free Church of Scotland and the APC
(Different from the Church of Scotland)
If you’re English I recommend the Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England & Wales and the Free Church of England.
(Different from the Church of England)
Also online you can look up church finders for each of the groups, it will show you locations
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
-Hebrews 10:24-25
This gimmick would work if he framed himself as the leader of a school, or the sensei of a dojo and made his students go through a bunch of ridiculous training (filmed in montages)
Great idea!
You mean a similar gimmick like Matt Striker had in WWE? That would be horrible.
I trust Chris Jericho to get that over better than Matt Striker did.
@@BiggieTrismegistus Maybe, i dunno. I can't speak for others, but me personally don't like a comedianish Chris Jericho as wrestler. :)
Wouldn’t work either because it’s Y2J in 2024 & he ain’t the same anymore
The reason why this groups not working is because everyone realizes the Chris Jericho hasn’t made stars outta ppl that joined the faction. He does factions out of his own benefits
Exactly! I mean look at Daniel Garcia. Khan's booking him in the title picture now, and it would be justified HAD Jericho Appreciation Society put Garcia over sufficiently beforehand. However, Garcia was used as an enforcer/jobber to put Jericho over instead, and when they did focus on him they sabotaged and ruined it, so Garcia's current push seems like it just came out of nowhere.
@@jamescopping2231 like let’s be real you would’ve thought Sammy Guevara would’ve been a main eventer by now he’s still stuck in mid card scene and Jake Hager basically used these factions to get free money his heart wasn’t I’m even in it for Wrestling
Unpopular opinion: I like the gimmick. It should have had someone more obnoxious than Big Bill as a member. Big Bill is trying to make it work but still. It should be a fun gimmick but when the bell rings, Jericho should just flat go in the ring and kick ass. It should be a rude awakening, like a warning - "We're being goofy but don't forget what we can do". The gimmick hasn't been around for long yet to be hated that much. The "hi guys" thing is starting to catch on. I want to see how it turns out.
Hot take they should’ve brought Enzo amore in instead of Bryan keith
I love the gimmick Jericho can do no wrong in my eyes
He’s slowly morphing into Mickey Rourke
People are booing, chanting please retire, and even no reaction to jericho. That's really all you need to know right there.
All of Jericho's reinventions for the past decade have just been growing his hair and wearing different pants/jackets.
The way he acts is different though, Cena just changes his colours and Orton just acts the same no one else currently who's been doing it as long can do it like Jericho
Jericho has changed ONE time in 2008. Everything else has been variations of Y2J from the early 2000s@@21Arfon21
@@21Arfon21that’s a sign that what they’ve been doing is working. Other than maybe a cena heel turn ain’t nobody asking for these 2 to change anything up, let alone retire like they want with Jericho
@@yokapppa3292 because you don't want to admit that Orton's coming back and taking a young guys spot again to do absolutely nothing, he should of retired before he got demoted to the wwe tag team division, cenas only come back and ruined people like theory by saying he gets his cheers piped in 🤣 you just don't want to admit these things
@@21Arfon21Well said!
jericho is now wcw 1994 hulk hogan. he attaches himself to whomever is hot and then siphons off their heat.
You are godamm right!!!!!!
He's becoming the elderly fox.
1994 hogan was way more popular and was a monster
Jericho has no aura anymore and just annoying asf also has a worst physique than my 65 year old grandpa atp
@@fernandomarrufocortes5137 wrong actuallly
@@davidcoombsbestmegadethalb9780 Nop.
Jericho should just retire at this point.
i see the error in your ways. the learning tree can offer you guidence.
@@m00rtin4there's a clear flaw in the American education system, the Learning tree has alot to do
What funny is this gimmick was already done in TNA Wrestling with Brian Myers having the Learning Tree stable
Same writer
Jericho has go away heat and wont go away to get rid of it.
And nobody gets over by being in a Jericho faction. Sammy only got over and got the TNT title by basically unofficially leaving the faction and distancing himself so far away from it that you can argue that he wasn't apart of it.
Jericho’s first mistake was choosing to stop playing Judas as his entrance music which facilitated boos before he even got into the ring.
@@R0bbathehutt That was intentional. Kinda hard to make people hate you when they're anticipating singing along with your theme.
Pretending people dislike him for the character and not his actions is straight up dishonesty. People started turning on him when the SA allegations came out.
No people turned on him way before that nice try though
People turned on him way before that, AEW Fans started turning on him when the SA allegations came out.
@NoNo-ok1lp A small minority did. The chants started after the allegations. Nice try though.
Didn't they disprove the allegations after the guy who made it retracted it?
@theatlantean8036 allegations started by Brian Alvarez who had to retract them for not being true or credible tho. I guess these days if you get enough clout you can weaponize it and destroy whoevers life work and career ya want . Objective truth be damned
When Jericho put over Action Andretti and then immediately buried Andretti on his podcast, I've lost all respect for him. Funny that Ospreay did the same thing to Swerve just last week.
Most of his "adaptations" are variations of his WCW initial loud gimmick. The big departure was 2008 and now this. Perhaps the Painmaker as well. Still not sure what Le Champion or The Ocho was...
The Painmaker was trash aswell in my opinion, the only 3 Gimmicks that I enjoyed from Jericho was Y2J, The List & Heel “suit” Jericho.
Someone said it best that all he does is change his hair and jacket. He's the Madonna of Pro Wrestling
@@richborn6700 noooo don't let him see that then he will use it .
@@Ghost-Face420 His "The List" gimmick with Kevin Steen is far more better than whatever he did
I think Cody Rhodes leaving was a sign that something was massively wrong in AEW.....we just couldn't see it yet.
It's sad, competition is important, it's pushed WWE to be better, no question.
But WWE is clearly looking to eliminate them, by being so good, not even the hardcore needs anything else.
I thought everyone was loving this gimmick lol😂😂
It would've been more interesting if was in the 1990s during WCW.
But since it's 2024 it's a different opinionated thought.
Just about everyone I've seen on Twitter and IRL have loved it
Even my friends who've hated Jericho for the past 3 years
Yeah, because Twitter is a good measure of fan reception
The lexicon of le shampion ❤
The crowds seem to think differently. How many times have we heard "fuck you jerhico, please retire" chants? Way more than cheers.
This is the best gimmick to generate heat reaction from wrestling fans.
It's go away heat
Dirty dom>>>
Chris got exposed in aew. In wwe he always had a filter out of ideas thru vince. In aew there's no filter on what's good and what's bad, jerichos truly not that great, he constantly has to change characters just to stay relevant
Jericho's been constantly updating and changing his character for his entire career so that's a silly claim.
And if you think Vincent McMahon of all people was a "good filter" then you clearly have never heard about his truly insane ideas that others had to talk him down from or outright refuse.
he also would leave to do Fozzy.
Love Jericho but he’s so out of shape physically I can’t take any of his work seriously
It's him or nothing. Chris Jericho is guding offer to the future stars of success but if they refuse he takes the success.
I think the problem is the inmates are running the asylum. There is no pushback from TK on most wrestlers' gimmicks. He let's the vets do their thing and if it works great if not, we'll that's fine too.
It's awful, jericho claims he's there for the young guys but he hasn't made a single superstar, jerichos ego is so huge, he's also a real shady dude because of what he did to kylie rae
@@wwemasta Allegedly.
I love jerichod work in wwe, but all the criticism for triple h now doesnt feel warranted
I know that I am a simple man but it makes me laugh so I really don't mind it.
I enjoy it. The annunciation is hilarious
He was great on commentary the other night and Excalibur's reactions made it even funnier. Excalibur laughing when Jericho said "That was a DDT!". It got me!!
I enjoy it as well. It would be one thing if it was main event stuff, but it's in the midcard. I don't mind.
He should do the melted icecream gimmick
I get a good chuckle out of it. It’s entertaining enough. It’s just wares thin pretty quickly if the segments run too long or when he is on tv on multiple segments. Less is more at the moment.
I agree that short vignettes peppered throughout the show would work better.
Same
Jericho's living the gimmick with this one. For most of his AEW career Jericho has been like a vampire sucking away all the momentum from young up and coming stars to remain relevance in his older years.
Who was it that called him a succubus Carney? 😂
That is definitely what he is.
@@williamkirschenman it's Cody, and that's before Jericho even got too stale since it's still his first faction, i guess Cody really does see the writings on the wall
Let's talk about undertaker and how instead of putting bray Wyatt over he ruined his moment 🤣🤣
@@tedjomuljono3052 yeah I think that's why punks gone back to WWE and taken the spot away from all the young guys 🤣 for 6 months made it all about himself not put anyone else over but your happy you can chant cm punk while watching WWE again right?
@@21Arfon21 are you on something dude?
As I said many times before on UA-cam, mix his Learning Tree Gimmick with members of the Jericho Appreciation Society gimmick and have Chris Jericho mold said members into different versions of himself and less people would complain.
That might work. Turn one into a Lionheart Chris Jericho, another into Y2J Chris Jericho, give one a list, etc - change their ring gear and hair to match and everything.
I AM A WIZARD!
I like it. It’s a fun heel gimmick.
It’s such a surreal and annoying way to play the heel.
If anything I want them to double down and go harder.
More weird scripted segments. Interrupt matches for water breaks. Etc. etc.
I think Tony Khan doesn’t understand that people chant Please retire or go home Jericho go home and they booing Jericho because they don’t want to see him anymore and I don’t know how Chris is going get his fans back now. Maybe he should go to a trial for his allegation against him to tries to prouve that his innocent and if he really did what he did to Kylie Rae well I think we should never see him in AEW again but man Jericho he as to do something to get his fans back and is not by being the learning tree it doesn’t work for me and for a lot so yeah I agree that’s Jericho worst gimmick of his entire career.
It basically what happens to the big show every didn't like his booking
He has go-away heat. People don't want to see him get comeuppance like they do a normal heel; they want to not see him anymore.
@@BiggieTrismegistussame with solo at MITB 🤓
He is ripping off the Eugene gimmick 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Bro changes his gimmick too often!
Disagree. Jericho isn't a spectacular looking talent. He isn't a muscular specimen. At the same time he isn't a mega baby face talker like cena or hogan. He needs to constantly switch it up to be able to stay relevant.
@@dSYNYSTERband in the process he’s become irrelevant
Lately
It’s not changing a gimmick. He’s just giving himself a new nickname. LA Champion, the ocho, the wizard and now the learning tree. Nothings different about the guy. He has a faction, gives himself a new nickname, becomes a champ, faction breaks up and repeats.
I loved his List gimmick and when he would call ppl stupid 😂 man Chris Jericho is a legend
He should either retire or take 6 months off to get back into ring shape. He has gotten slow and lost a lot of his muscles.
I’m loving this gimmick. “ Hi Guysssss”
I thought same thing. The learning tree is the worst gimmick he has done.
You must be forgetting about "The Painmaker".
@@williamseneyjr.6277nah Atleast he was having good matches in Japan and wasn’t annoying
This is, by far, the worst gimmick Chris Jericho has ever done. It's bad enough he has to play a fake-ass Mister Rodgers, but banning Taz from commentary because of his feud with Hook, that's just taking it too far. If Taz gets replaced by Nigel McGuiness, I will never forgive Jericho for this. And if those so-called EVPs, "Matthew" and "Nicolas", agreed with this, then they are as bad as he is. For SHAME!!
it is ok but it has overstayed its welcome
You skipped over a big...big part of the story....that helped him get here🤨
Brian Myers lead The Learning Tree first in TNA with Sam Beale, VSK, Manny Lemons and Zicky Dice
he ate the guy that was doing moonsaults
i think thats his last gimmick last run and he is just waiting for retirement
In my personal opinion, the learning tree is definitely a bad gimmick but I feel like it’s a gimmick that’s so bad it’s good
His current gimmick is even worse than the whole America's Top Team program, and I didn't think that was possible.
Nah this gimmick is 🔥
If GO AWAY HEAT WAS A PERSON IN 2024!!!! 💯💯💯💯👏👏👏 This group totally sucks bro
He's gotten to a point of the fans giving off X-Pac heat. That's not a good thing.
Jericho in WWE > Jericho in AEW!
No kidding lol He was the first undisputed champion, he was a mutli time world champion, he had gimmicks like Y2J, heel Jericho in a speedo, and the List of Jericho gimmick, he pulled off ridiculous gimmicks and made them amazing, he was an amazing main eventer and mid carder, his feuds with Shawn Michaels are legendary, his team with KO was awesome, he did everything. In AEW he helped start up the company, was the first AEW world champion, led a few factions, and had the Le Champion gimmick. Which is HOF worthy, but not as legendary as his WWE run where he was in his prime and lasted almost two decades. Saying WWE Jericho is better is like saying chocolate is better than fish, fish is good but chocolate is on another level lol
@@DroopCoophbk 2008 was terrible
I think the learning tree gimmick is weird and the main thing I would like is if those allegations are true with him is to take accountability for them say I **ked up leave aew for a while and go get help
Nothing has been confirmed so the to me that proves a false narrative
I like it. He's leaning into the hate He's getting to wind people up even more. Lads had about a billion different gimmicks
Jericho is one of the reasons why I started watching WCW. He’s been one of my absolute top favorite wrestlers for over 25 years.
But now he ironically feels more like Randy the Ram from “The Wrestler” than Randy Savage’s ponytail and mesh spandex shirt era. He looks old and haggard and he’s bowlegged as all hell now from decades of wrestling which makes him look broken down.
I think Shawn Michaels post-2002 was way better than Shawn Michaels pre-1998 and when he retired he was still in the tail end of his prime and the only thing he was losing was more hair. Jericho is way past that retirement window and is now firmly in that Undertaker after losing to Roman Reigns window. Except Undertaker still had enough goodwill because he only showed up once or twice a year.
This is the perfect gimmick for him considering everyone wants him to retire…he’s playing into that which is perfect
I understand that Jericho is trying to lean into the fan negativity. But it’s just not working the way Chris hoped it would. Everything Jericho has done in AEW for the last two years or so proves he should retire because everything he does is so cringe worthy.
Chris Jericho went to aew and ruined his value. Having 5000 gimmicks that aren’t that good doesn’t mean your over or are the king of reinvention
He doesn't need to be in the spotlight. The Learning Tree gimmick's best point is giving Keith and Big Bill more than being floating. Culmination tho should be Big Bill and Keith having more footing and maybe Hook humbling Jericho
His "Le Champion" gimmick was a good one at best when he first started in AEW along with Inner Circle. After that, it's been a lot of nothing gimmicks with catchphrases that never got over no matter how hard he tried to make them look like they were.
Are there actually any gimmicks in WWE anymore? Other than the Wyatt 6 everyone else has just become themselves, struggled to get over and this creating the problem of WWE not creating any legends from 2003 - current era (other than Cena Orton and Brock)
AEW in general need to stop with the "I AM WHATEVER YOU SAY I AM" gimmicks.
that's what Jericho is doing (and his whole problem is, we aren't getting what we used to get inbetween Jericho gimmicks....A BREAK. He has been on TV THE ENTIRE TIME BETWEEN JAS AND THIS. back in the day, he used to vanish for like 6 months plus, then when he comes back you're ready to see him), that's what the Bucks are doing, that's what naming a match "blood and guts" is.
they might as well pay Eminem for that song, honestly.
I'm enjoying whatever crap Jericho came up with now because he has done it all, and when he get other gimmicks over one after another, and yeah fumbling one or two gimmicks like this one it just show that he's only human. There's not much talents left from his era like him, there's Christian Cage, Adam Copeland, Billy Gunn, Eddie's gone, Benoit's gone, even Cena who came into business later than him is going to retire, most of them either retired or gone to obscurity. So just enjoy what's left of him, folks. You don't expect everybody to be like Ric Flair.
Come on, The Learning Tree is Jericho's worst gimmick?
It is still better than his absurd-in-all-the-wrong-ways Painmaker gimmick.
I’ve never EEEEEEVER liked any group Jericho formed in AEW. He’s like Matt Hardy in that he cools the heat of the guys he’s supposedly “helping” (and needed a place to store his buddy, Hager).
To be honest, I actually don't mind it. It's cringy yes but I admit it makes me laugh and Jericho's phrases like "Thanks guys" give me a chuckle.
The irony is despite all the complaints it's getting a reaction out of people and people talk about it frequently so it's clearly working. If he came out to dead silence and people gave zero reaction that'd be a different story.
Reminds me of Bo Dallas in NXT
Its the best gimmick of jericho,he constant reinvent himself what a legend
The learning Tree gimmick is not him! It does not fit him! The gimmicks he had in the WWE & The Inner Circle in AEW & The Appreciation Society was all good because he was being himself. He was being the kind of person that his fans know him from in his run in WWE. Even when he did You Just Made The List gimmick. The Learning Tree does not fit the personality that we all know him for.
Bruh this gimmick is actually good. Add MxM from Roh to his new faction and it will work
I think since the allegations, people turned on him, regardless if there's a case or not. Even before that, it definitely felt like he overstayed his welcome in professional wrestling. There isn't much left for Jericho to do in wrestling besides helping elevate younger talent. If he had to make three different factions since the start of AEW, I think that's already a little much in a short span of time.
Bryan Keith should be wrestling on Ring Of Honor and honest I would like to see him competing for either the ROH TV Title or ROH World Title as a singles competitor.
Bryan Keith also maybe developing an undefeated streak in ROH with Keith even maybe at some point developing a legacy in ROH.
The fact that this video exists means this gimmick is working... literally WORKing and even ahead of its time
Nothing against Big Bill, or the Bounty Hunter, but for me it is certainly the worst Jericho gimmick. I mean, he has had some cold periods, or some bad creative in his career before like most everyone else, but I would gladly take any previous version of Jericho over this. Not to mention, as a fan of HOOK's trio I'm annoyed they're currently stuck in this dead-end feud with Jericho. Otherwise, I want to emphasize that I really like most of what AEW is doing lately, especially that last Dynamite, but the best thing I can say for this character is I can always use a restroom/snack break.
This gimmick is stupid.
Gimmick after gimmick after gimmick and none of them seem to land, they all seem to follow the same pattern. He's just repeating himself at this point. Fans aren't booing because he's a heel and they're supposed to boo him. They're booing because they're bored.
Jericho needs to go away for a while. Make the fans miss him. He should go to NJPW if he wants to keep working. Or just take a break for a few months.
its a great gimmick this person thinks he is a face but is hated by the wrestlers and fans it is so different and very similar to bolieve f b dallas in nxt
I like the gimmick. Another click bait anti aew nonsense
Not to mention CJ is now ripping off that Monday night messiah SR had a few years ago.
One gimmick he never did was being anti American since Jericho is Canadian
He should have retired 5 years ago.
Im not mad at this gimmick but I just want the old Y2J back so baaadd!!And also his old theme song
I think that the learning tree sucks!
I love The Learning Tree Jericho 🌳
The learning tree is growing on me.
Aight I'm leaving
Huge fan since ECW days, please retire Chris Jericho. I frickin love his work but enough is enough. Last year at Wembley I felt he should have walked away after performing with fozzy then a classic with Osprey. I'm 37 and he looks like an old man to me, what the F must teenagers be thinking when they see him wrestle now.
I haven’t paid attention to Jericho since 22. I get it, but look around Chris. Everyone from your era of wrestling has moved on. John Cena just announced his retirement tour, sting finally retired.
It’s something bittersweet about the end. I’m not here to tell you what to do, all I’m saying is at some point, We need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves what are we doing?
Randy is still going based on your logic randy is a weak old man holding on to relevancy
@@buckleupteddy Randy orton is 43………….
Jericho started wrestling in 1990. He's been at it a full decade longer than Orton and Cena but still going. The only contemporary left from Jericho's generation is Rey Mysterio
I do love that chuckle he does though!
I feel like it isn't Jericho's fault, it's a stupid concept with a lot of potential, the booking is trash and Jericho can only do so much to elevate his "branches". And I don't think it's the SA allegations bc at the end of the day, they're just allegations. There's no truth in it until it's confirmed. And I'd honestly be surprised if Jericho was a POS like that. Either way he's still a great worker and I'm gonna really miss him when he retires. I don't think ppl genuinely think Jericho should retire, I think it's kinda like Kurt Angle's "you suck", nobody actually thinks he sucks lol And from what I've heard Jericho's slowing down in the ring, so if they DO mean it, that's prolly the reason lol
I guarantee these people who dislike Jericho's gimmick also this the current bloodline is good
My issues start and stop with the allegations. I can't move past that. I could go my entire life not watching another chris Jericho match because unless he clears his name instead of ignoring them like he has, I can only see him as what he's been accused of.
I understand your frustration but jericho got a list over
Making this video is a suggestion that the Learning Tree is a good gimmick. It's over already.
I expected this to be a video on Jericho not a video portraying fans as ignorant and marks for not liking Jericho
The obvious character pivot here is to play into the fallen star. The old guy that doesn’t know when to retire. Lose all the time, have the younger guys be patronising to Chris. Then have him slowly remember who he is. Basically Ric Flair from 2002-2004
The Learning tree is Very wierd
I love Chris Jericho's Honest man Heel gimmick in the WWE and the way he pissed all the fans off
I feel like making your gimmick being in a faction is terrible. Like the Inner Circle was great but two more factions right after? No that's not good writing.
Everyone saying they don't like the learning tree gimmick is fundamentally missing the point of it. The joke is going over their head. Jericho had made a gimmick that's is the Brian Alvarez dirt sheets depiction of chris Jericho dialed to 11 . It's genius in its self satisfying satirical nuance. But nuance or satire for that matter don't always go over...in fact they hardly do. That being said don't be surprised if he pulls it off
No I get it, but it’s still crap. What interesting story can you tell from it? What’s interesting about them? Keith yelling at everyone to respect Jericho, it’s gets tiring about hearing it 10 times. Big Bill, let’s face it, isn’t interesting. He’s a big guy and needs someone to talk for him. Like Ricky Starks and Enzo.
You can create things that many people don’t understand but it can still be good. This isn’t
@@joegardner851thank you
Way better than "You made the list" I love it
What? AEW fans being fickle and chronically online??? No! Perish the thought!
Back in the Era of Attitude I distinctly remember The Undertaker having "The Learning Tree" for his Ministry of Darkness. I believe the Learning Tree gimmick belongs to the Deadman with all due respect
First undisputed champion