Jonas Eidevall LEAVES Arsenal | Reaction
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- Jonas Eidevall has officially left Arsenal, just three days after their 2-1 defeat to Chelsea. Was this the right time for him to leave? Had things reached fever pitch with the Arsenal fanbase?
Chloe and Rachel discuss that and reflect on how the negative environment around Arsenal points to a worrying shift in women’s football culture.
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To challenge for the WSL you have to win at least 18 games to push Chelsea all the way. Arsenal already have to play catch up both in the league and the CL with the level of play and results. The guy was backed probably more than any other WSL manager ever. The sport has grown and so will the pressure to manage clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea, City. As much as it got toxic, Jonas never helped himself and his football was just shambolic to watch ever week. Something had to change.
Thank you Chloe for calling the graffiti incident out. I think you guys should . There is no place for this in women’s football. Shouldn’t be in men’s either but I want the women’s supporters to do better. As an American, we do many things I’m not proud of, but defacing a building to express your dissatisfaction with a coach is not one of them.
Really interesting thoughts from Chloe bringing the perspective of a former player. I think this negativity / propensity to be personally attacking has been building with the popularity of the women's game, but also influenced by a few things:
- the demographic of fans. A lot of the anger I see online (I am far too active on X, tiktok, reddit, instagram) comes from younger people who perhaps don't have the maturity to understand where that line is yet.
- previous successes building expectations. After the nations league games last year, I was surprised by the current of negativity aimed at England, and this continued after the Sweden draw. I think people have just been trained to expect dominance and success without really understanding the wider context - that other teams and other countries are improving so quickly you are not going to get the 20-0 and 10-0 scorelines as much anymore. That doesn't mean (e.g.) England are worse - it just means the competition has gotten better. Arsenal used to be the WSL powerhouse and leader - the expectations are that they get back to that, but it won't be as easy now that other clubs are increasing their investment, players are getting stronger across the league, etc.
- social media - so many people talk about the game on social media now where there is no room for nuance or context. People find echo chambers where their opinion is shared and through that repetition, confirmed (confirmation bias). That can lead to the construction of a narrative that is not accurate and not representative, but people feel comfortable shouting about it and crossing the line because they feel they will be backed up by those around them.
The REAL fans will be there for the team for better or worse. Personal attacks on players or staff is not acceptable !!! COYGS
The stakes just seem so much bigger now that's why the frustration levels are sky-high. I just hope that everyone can get behind the team and give them the support they need. We don't want or need personal attacks on players in the WSL.
The graffiti bit feels like a line that shouldn't have been crossed. Wildly inappropriate.
He should have kept Miedema.
That was the point when I realised he also was very much on the way out. My guess is that she spoke up on behalf of other players as well as herself, and he didn't want to hear any of it. Preferring to carry on with more of the same, so out she went. Wasn't that obvious? Inevitably he wasn't going to last and the timing was pretty much as expected, if a few months late.
The booing at the ground was a shocking new development in women's football.
New? What game have you been watching these last few years?
That Emirates crowd boos consistently - especially any Chelsea player that has the temerity to score there.
@@goldboy150 booing the enemy is a different thing 😁
@@kerenskable you probably should’ve said that first time round lol
Although to make a serious point for a second, I think booing one’s own team for its failings comes from a very similar psychological place to booing the opponent for doing something good.
What I mean is that I think you’d be right if you said booing the opponent for time wasting or bad fouls or something generally negative is entirely different to booing one’s own team. However, I think that if you’re booing the opponent for scoring, you’re probably going to be very comfortable booing your own team for playing badly or losing. It comes from the same place.
@@goldboy150 I get you. For many years I was a member at warwickshire cricket club, and when the test match was on, we clapped an opposition player if he did something good😂😂😂
He's had a lot of chances to turn it around and failed. Jonas has definitely mishandled one of the best teams talent-wise, but it's sink or swim time for the players now. If a new manager comes in and they still can't make something work, then the spotlight will be on them.
2:51 ... "It's almost like they have to keep doing the same thing, over and over hoping for a different result" ... Thankyou! At last someone is hitting on the real problem here: Jonas' slow & rigid style, which has proved so ineffective at times yet has remained invariant. That style and the direction to stick to it has been killing the fortunes of this team, and inhibiting the creativity & talents of the players. Unfortunately, Renee Slegers talking about "small margins" being the problem indicates she's far too much like Jonas and won't significantly change the style.
@@bd9531 this is my worry too. Different person, same management team ... and she seems very pro-Jonas, which isn't exactly helpful at this moment. Just hope she gives the players enough freedom and encouragement to get us over the line with Vålerenga and west ham.
@@kerenskable Yes, Renee appears to favor a Dutch "long attack" style of football that suggests she's more a part of the problem than solution right at the moment. With the right context and talent that football can be ok, but rigidly sticking to it all the time is not. But I suspect a new head coach will be appointed pretty quickly anyway, likely over the international break. Probably Casey Stoney or someone else. But whether it's Renee or a new coach, it should be obvious to them style changes are needed. That said, I thought it ought to be obvious to Jonas too!
@@bd9531 The thing with style tactics etc is do you have the players? Can the players play how you want? In my opinion and experience he was answering neither of these questions. We will struggle to finish 3rd this season.
@@dare2dreamd2d23 Yes, agree squad makeup is an issue. Arsenal does have a strong squad that plays a range of styles with more speed and diversity in their national teams, so I think they can do much better with what they already have. But I think there are some things they should do to build a stronger squad, and that's a problem which will take time to address as you suggest.
Hello Chloe and Rachel. This was so expected. No point delaying what had become a point of no return with fans and it seemed the players from rumours.
January transfer window might be very interesting?
Arsenal reminds me a bit of Orlando from 2018-2022 switched mangers repeatedly but it wasn't until some players were traded off and others brought in I think helped them come back to what they are this year. A manager can only control so much if the locker room has gotten toxic, I'll be curious how things progress.
@@dylanmaxey2531 Totally agree. The decision making is the problem players staying longer than they should have. It’s become a place of comfort. We have the same thing going on in the men’s team. The club portrays a big club image but wants to be warm and fuzzy. The culture at both Chelsea and Man City is the opposite. They are elite clubs behaving appropriately. We let the leagues top goal scorer of all time go to City. How can that help when the attacking players left are no way near as good. Frustrating!
Social media has become such a vile place. At some point, things will boil over to the level where anonymity will have to be stripped away. People will have to put their real names behind the comments they make and face consequences.
I totally get your comments re abuse of players and agree there was some pretty vile stuff being said.
However, I think that message is diluted a tad when it comes straight after having suggested that “Jonas out” is beyond the pale.
I’m not an Arsenal fan and so am not emotionally invested in him or the team at all. What I would say though is that if fans can’t want a change of managers, we are definitely veering into the “toxic positivity”, happy happy-joy joy territory you didn’t want to see.
Calling for a change of manager can’t be viewed as a personal attack on an individual’s livelihood - managers are after all compensated well for being shown the door before the end of their contract.
I just think that if you want to draw some bright lines and call out the terrible abuse that’s out there - as you rightly should - you have to also distinguish between that and absolutely fair criticism of performance and desire for change.
Really sad...he is a good coach...he did his best to elevate the club ❤❤❤❤
@@venugopal2227 I’m sorry he is not a good coach. This evident by the football being played. Scoring goals has been a huge problem for the past two seasons. The recent home game Everton said it all.
Season after season after season Jonus has watched Chelsea win every single year..
Watched brilliant players leave the club
the league is already over this season ( unless miraculously Chelsea drop a game somewhere) fans are completely fed up, Chelsea are 5-6 years ahead of Arsenal now and fans have every right to vent their frustration, I didn't see nothing wrong with wanting change when year after year after year you can see how bad he was doing, he should have been sacked two seasons ago
@@SwiftGifts-ni6qz yeah but we have beat Chelsea more than they beat us in that time, so it's not as simple as a chelsea-arsenal dichotomy
As a lifelong arsenal fan watching the men's team and, as women's football has become more accessible, I've been following our women's team as well. I've always felt like there was an overly nice vibe about the women's game. I don't like the lack of rivalries and this idea that we should always be really nice. I obviously don't think players and managers should be abused, but things like booing and wanting the manager out is all part of football, and I see it as an expression of high standards and competitiveness from the fans. Realistically, a club as big as Arseanl should have high standards and I think it's partially the job of the fans to make sure that's upheld
Well done to him for swallowing his pride and doing the right thing. Although I don't think he had much choice. Good opportunity here to get Casey Stoney back into the game. I'm sure they could do a lot worse.
I think it is self-evident that Jonas didn't have a larger vision or secret strategy behind his decision to let Viv go to Man City on a free - it was an inexplicable decision so of course it was only a matter of time before he went! Can we have our Viv back now please!
I feel like I can't have chats up with some live games and live analysis on youtube. A lot of the armchair critics are getting pretty nasty.
Yes, that's what I noticed too. I stopped reading the comments. The truth is, a fair number came across as misogynistic. Comments should either be monitored or turned off.
@@janmitchell641 yes unfortunately it’s a lot of male commentators in the main. I’m disappointed, both as a male and fan of the women’s game, that further growth has brought exactly what the women’s game sought to keep out.
I love that Blu-ray called Ramirez goal a 'cartwheel'. I don't think Cheryl Foster had her best match, because the 'cartwheel' saw Ramirez's foot close to and at the level of Meado's head.
Jonas seemed like a proper bloke but he was coach for 4 years. The players weren't playing for him anymore and seemed to not have defined roles. Why don't we have pacy wingers, what do we want Russo to be positionally? Why are our young starlets being abandoned/mistreated (Gio, Kuhl, etc etc)? Why was Lacasse/Viv/Nobbs so adamant about leaving? Why don't we have an aerial monster in the back, why are we so poor at defending, and are afraid to take shots? Why do seem to mess up the basics...that has to be down to training/accountability? He's not the sole issue but there definitely needs to be some house cleaning throughout the organization, we are the biggest and most successful ladies club in England and need to act like it. I think we recruited badly and have no clear philosophy...so many #10s. What does Claire Wheatley even do? How come she doesn't come out and speak like Edu does for the men? The squad is going to have to go through a major rebuild soon so best to do under a manager and development manager with clear ideas and philosophy. Player ages: Catley 30, McCabe 29, Ilestedt 31, Mead 29, Hurtig 29, Foord 30, Stina 28, Caldentey 28, Little 34, Walti 31)
@@SilverArrows47 we do have pacey wingers, they just haven't been used right. Russos positioning is problematic, as when Mariona came in, she played in lessi areas, the Lessi/Marion, and Meado/Mariona dynamic have yet to be sorted out. Not helped by us playing too narrow, and all 3 ending up in virtually the same space. One of the results is that we have missed Meado's "crots".
@@SilverArrows47 I agree that Claire Wheatley's role is a mystery, and should not be.
Haaaa. Finally. That phool took viv away. I wont forgive him. Hes the reason am not watching arsenal lately. I hope viv will be back to arsenal😢
best news all year! it was inevitable!
While I agree that some fans criticisms have gone too far and turned into harassment the Jonas out graffiti isn't one of them. There isn't anything about him as a person , or God forbid his family, it's not threatening and it isn't someplace like his personal home. It is a consequence of his poor management he should have gotten fired displayed at his place of work
Glad he left. He's too good for Arsenal. Steadily building with 2 conti cups in 3 years behind him but rubbished after a few dodgy results with no time to turn it round because of pressure. How I wish the same passion was shown in the men's game to sack Arteta after no trophies in 4 years coupled with desperate performances against championship teams this season but he's the PR expert where fans accept it. And please don't say the women & men's game is different. It's Arsenal, full stop. Good luck Jonas & thanks for the memories. There are better things for you out there.
The mean comments may well have been what ruined the team. The season has just started. Are they really Arsenal fans?
Probably many are not, regardless, criticism which insults or is constructive is all packaged togsthwr and called "abuse" etc. This is definitely a generational issue. It's easier said than done telling players to ignore and learn to log off and get off from being perpetually online - and being affected by words from people who don't know you - but good luck with that.
Arsenal it seems have been looking for the next coach in case this season didn't start well. Last season they took qualification for the UCL for granted ...they were caught cold when that failed coz they had no plan B. I would not be surprised if they sign some from Spain or Portugal soon.
Unfortunately the trolls have found the women’s game
This is not magically gonna help Arsenal start winning, in case anyone is wondering
Very sad Jonas leaving...
As a personality in the media, he is excellent. But he is has so much self conviction and inflexibility that his management style is unsustainable.
Chloe, I'm very sorry to hear you received body shaming abuse on the field. That is so not on, and just makes me sick. Perhaps the players need to start kneeling against trolling and abuse, in addition to racism.
Now that Jonas is gone, the players can't deflect their poor play anymore. Jonas is not the only one who needs to go.
I think Eidevall's replacement has to be a woman and I agree with Chloe that Casey Stoney is the best option. It shouldn't matter, but it does, because there are more male managers in the WSL, but there are no female managers in any men's league. And men can be a problem in women's football; Willie Kirk and Jonathan Morgan were both sacked for having relationships with players at LCWFC, and at least one of those players was from the academy; the girl's mother has said that Morgan groomed her daughter when she was seventeen. Maddy Cusack's parent's have said that Morgan's bullying and body shaming led to Maddy taking her own life a year ago, which Morgan has denied. There are good male managers too, of course, but if female coaches can't get a job in the women's game, then they can't get a job at all. Social media is one of the biggest problems of the 21st century (Andrew Tate would have no fame or influence without it) and social media platforms have a responsibility to protect vulnerable people. Trolling in women's football is getting more sophisticated; it used to just be men with private accounts slagging off the women's game and saying: "They need smaller - goals/pitches/shorts", but now those same private account holders are posing as fans; men who really only support the men's team, and use the women's team as a target for their misogyny. I've seen it on AVWFC's Instagram account. The troll "supporters" never post comments when Villa Women win, but ALWAYS post abuse when they lose. Last season it was all directed at Carla Ward, But this season (so far) it's all been directed at the players, with only female fans criticising Robert de Pauw.
@@mikejames6664 I would like the manager to be a woman, but greater than that, I want an experienced, quality manager, with an adaptable structural approach, and good overall tactics, that suit the players we have.
If you want to keep your job at The Arsenal, you have to win trophies, end of. He had to go. Too many losses and too far away from the others now.
I did rate this geezer but.....that Arsenal squad , now, should be doing bettee.
Agreed there is no room for abuse in any space. Arsenal creates it's own problems by poor decision making. The club has a very passive/agressive social media strategy which is relentless and a great source of the frustration. The level of the game has shifted and we Arsenal have not shifted with it. The majority of our players are not good enough to play at the Champions League level, fact! Sticking with Zinsberger giving her a contract extension not replacing her with van Domselaar earlier. Letting Viv go bringing in Caldentey (who doesn't fit). Eidevall is the face of the decisions but he alone is not to blame. There's a (Wenger) culture at the club that needs to be replaced with an alternative. Fact is many of the people at the club are Wenger acolytes. Casey Stoney is not the answer. Let's rebuild and begin by approaching Suzanne Bakker former Ajax coach and go from there.
Exactly, great suggestion, but she is already in Milan
@@Daveportime I guess it illustrates snooze you lose.
Stoney is gonna come in and bring over Girma to replace Wubben Moy... Then she is going to look for an elite striker like a Banda or Chawinga. Blackstenius and Russo will be on the bench, if they are lucky.
Scott Parker is the favourite for the Arsenal woman manager job
Eidevall gone, no surprise, pick another manger, move on. Perversely, in my opinion, for at least 50% of the game vs Chelsea Arsenal looked (slightly) the better side.
This looks bad for Arsenal , Ruesha should replace Jonas
I think the guy is arrogant Emma Hayes was right about him, i am glad its Chelsea thats sealed his fete, UTC lets go 6 in a row
Good riddance
😂😂😂😂😂let’s all laugh at arsenal
Enjoy it whilst you can..
it's all going to change very soon
@@SwiftGifts-ni6qz Its too late. u are already out of the title race
@@Luckie666 yeh agree
This season is done already in October which is bad for the league TBH.
next season will be very different now
And I absolutely cannot wait to start a new era after 4 years of absolute shambles knowing there's zero chance before the first game begins.
There's going to be a Very different team incoming to football now
@@SwiftGifts-ni6qz I don’t think it’s bad for the league at all. Brighton and Man United are stepping up to replace you.
@@Luckie666
good luck for the rest of the season try to keep the score below 3 in most games yeh.. 👍
This season are just training games for Arsenal now zero pressure nothing to play for working on the new era ready for Emma Hayes to come home to where she belongs 🔥
See you next season 💪
Arsenal are an absolutely gigantic football club and will be back very soon playing a new way with new players at the elite level again.