Part 2 of How Netflix's Avatar Lost Its Martial Arts Identity
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Episode 2 of Netflix's Avatar the Last Airbender features a reimagining of one of the most beloved episodes of the original western cartoon: The Kyoshi Warriors. Not only is that particular episode legendary for the wonderful world building but it firmly rooted the franchise in the martial arts characterization that would fuel the rest of the series. You truly begin to get a feel for how every cast member, from Sokka, to Aang, to Zuko, and Katara, moves and fights. Not to mention the wonderfully established Kyoshi Warriors headed up by Suki.
This live action adaptation, while markedly better than episode one, still falls a little flat. There are some wonderful sequences of taolu and kata but none of the techniques that appear in them end up in the fight scenes themselves, so what's the point? We see some Aikido and Tessen skill whenever there is no target, the moment that we need to put fan to face it all goes away. But even if the fights still make the firebenders look like they're casting spells, at least we still have Iroh absolutely crushing it! Let's bow in!
credit to @RiftiBeats "Avatar the Last Airbender - Agni Kai (Trap Remix)" • Avatar the Last Airben...
Jeez, they messed this up so hard...
Sokka is doubting the Kyoshi warriors because of (first sexism, but also) the fact that he was caught off guard. He gets ambushed and taken down before he can react. So it makes sense that he'd think they might not be that tough, because it was an intentionally unfair situation.
With how this works in the Netflix version, what is Suki actually proving by taking Sokka by surprise again? That's why she just lets him make the first move in the anime. It's so Sokka can't complain about tricks or make excuses, she is JUST a better fighter than he is, and after being humbled he completely accepts that because he loses in an unambiguously fair fight.
This is what actual good female character writing looks like. Suki isn't bending reality to do these forced fan tricks or anything, she is JUST allowed to be a better martial artist than the guys in a completely grounded and believable way, and we're going to play that 100% straight for what it is.
Not to mention her skills set up earlier in the episode are brought back and remained consistent in later action sequences! Nice breakdown
On Sokka’s sexism - Netflix could have literally skipped the Kyoshi Warriors episode entirely and it wouldn’t have been a big deal for Sokka’s character arc.
But doing it while removing the main thing this story was supposed to be about is indicative of the show’s biggest flaw. It is FUCKING AWFUL at writing characterization. Basically if you go back and watch any scene from the original that existed for the purpose of characterization, the Netflix show either removed it more messed it up somehow. Like even Aang’s initial interaction with Sokka & Katara was cut. They literally skip to him waking up in the village rather than showing him interact with the other lead characters, which forces their future interactions to become almost entirely about plot & exposition
I’ve seen that portion of the show and many different reviewers interpretation of it. I think the fact so many people thought it was flying is more a fault of a show then of the reviewers.
Even now I'm just like... what gliding...??? I've seen that clip so many times and it still just looks like Aang doing Peter Pan stuff. I mean, is he even holding the glider?!
Just to comment on your little apology at the end, I think the fact that you and so many interpreted Aang as flying instead of gliding is still a very fair critic!! It's really important to establish the possibilities with bending early on to viewers so that everyone's on the same page with its capabilities, but I believe you can easily argue that the Netflix adaptation fails in this since so many people saw it as Aang flying. Netflix did not introduce the abilities of airbending in a very clear and undisputable way, but instead forced viewers to rely on previous knowledge of the original (allowing for new viewers to potentially misinterpret airbending).
Anyways, awesome video once again!!
Yep. Bashing it in our heads one second, being too vague the next. Reportedly, they added in the exposition because in the test screenings, they made the demake too confusing without it. If that doesn't show of their incompetence, I don't know what does.
But he was clearly flying in the village looking for his bison. Only fully realised avatar can do that kind of stuff which was shown to us by roku. When he saw sozin take over the earth Kingdom colony there we saw how Roku created a vortex below his legs and used it to get close to sozin. In live action he was just flying from here to there
I appreciate the support, I just got so many people telling me I misread that scene. Im still willing to acknowledge when I’m wrong about things regardless.
Besides, Aang’s flying has next to no impact on the fights and martial arts, which is the real reason why I’m here!
He literally predicted that I would put the UA-cam playback in half for the scene 😂
4:52
Note the way Katara lurches sideways while her arm straightens, the Kysoshi Warrior first yanked her off balance before moving in for the hood.
Yeah! Man I love that scene. Everything is so deliberate
As someone who is obsessed with Martial Arts in media, I thank the algorithm for digging up this channel for me! I've been hankering for more channels of martial arts nerds nerding out about martial arts and this is exactly what I've been looking for! Looking forward to seeing more!
Thanks so much. I love finding my fellow martial artists through these vids! What got you into it?
@@camgoodkicks my dad showed me some cool stick fight animations when I was a kid and ever since I've been obsessed with fight choreography! Took Karate as for a few years, had a Wing Chun phase after watching Ip Man (as anyone would), and now I'm just a casual appreciator of Martial Arts!
Some actors clearly know their forms but i guess people behind the camera (director, operator, CGI people) suck at staging and blocking.
The Kyoshi push is probably because they're trying to make her a thing, with books and rumoured upcoming animated movie from original creators (first Kyoshi book is actually really good).
I feel bad for Mr. Goi being handed these first two episodes, he’s not really action-oriented.
I enjoyed Kyoshi in the first book too! I’m looking forward to seeing more animated Avatar
@@camgoodkicks
I can feel bad because he had no prior expérience.
But i can t forgo that he didn t recruit experienced consultants to help him overcome his lackings.
That s either plain hubris or blatant incompetence.
Is the second one bad?
@@thevioletbee5879 They're all solid YA fantasy adventure books, but the first one about Kyoshi (Rise of Kyoshi) is the standout -- i legit think it's 2nd best Avatar media after ATLA cartoon itself
@@thevioletbee5879 I loved both of them
Lmao whoever said it was “gLiDiNg” is coping so hard bc it was undoubtedly flying
ah yes, "gliding"; that's when you propel yourself in different directions in midair like an entire helicopter, of course xV
That’s kinda what made me call it flying. If Aang is able to jump into the air, then jump again and ascend higher or shift directions, that’s essentially flying with extra steps, right?
@@camgoodkicks absolutely
This takes me back to my martial arts days when I was with a group of friends (different martial artists) commenting on a movie or even a manga together.
Love to hear I’m not alone! What got y’all into Martial Arts?
@@camgoodkicks good ol' crime. In the Dominican Republic the concept of self defense is very popular because the danger of being attacked by someone else is very real. At least back in my day. I don't live there anymore so I can't speak for these days.
@kevincruz7958 damn, dude. That must’ve been wild. You still practicing?
@@camgoodkicks not anymore. I got a family to take care of. Maybe when the baby gets older I can train him in what I know
@@kevincruz7958what did you practice?
Oh yeah I was waiting for this one! And not gonna lie I'm pleasantly surprised at how you kept it balanced. Like I totally missed how the Kyoshi warrior training session looked good. Like I said I'm not an expert on martial arts but it shows that how much of an effort the original show put into it which makes you appreciate it a lot more. For instance the stealth of Kyoshi warriors makes total sense because there's no way in hell that a non bender can fight a master bender head on and expect to win. These little things makes so much sense even if you don't really know about fighting that much. Not to mention how unique each martial art style for each bending element is unique and has a lot to do with the element itself. This show sometimes totally forget that.
Also you're pretty on point about Kyoshi as well. Like she's the "Coolest" avatar in the sense that she's always so calm and not hot headed as most people seem to think. Her expression hardly changes in any scene she's in, in the original. She took the most pacifist way to end a war by literally rearranging the map instead of killing or fighting the guy who started the war. 🤣
Thanks for the kind words, Loonu! Like I told another commenter, I’m not here to dump on this show. I just wanna look at every aspect of the martial arts representation in it.
You also hit the nail on the head with Kyoshi. I went back and watched all of the animated episodes earlier this year and fell in love with that character again because of how zen she is
@@camgoodkicks yeah it's like super hard for me not to look at the show in a more nuanced way because my god, I hate it so much but not gonna lie, it had its moments. Almost all natural interactions between Sokka, Katara and Aang was good. Like for example how they laughed at Sokka when Momo landed on his head. That scene made me feel something. Whenever the characters don't talk in the scenes and act like the kids they are supposed to be, it's kinda okay xD
im glad you were able to seperate these characters from the original ones! i wish i could as well, but its so hard for me. if they wanted different characters, they could have.....created different characters??? but no one seems to be interested in creating original stories 😭😭💀
This is low key a different world. It’s almost “what if it’s Avatar but lamer”
Well you could just not watch it that’s also a possibility
@@kylejackson7913 yea i know, thats why i didnt. had to stop after episode 1, so...
Great breakdown. Have a ton of appreciation for the kyoshi chapter even more. Even over analyzing avatar missed those small detail's.
I did my best to stay in my lane and focus on the martial arts and choreography side. Still an improvement over episode 1!
So at the end, I think you were right about Aang flying. He has a glider for a reason, and the intro ESTABLISHED that he needs his glider to fly/'glide' around with him using it to get into the pose... Then the next moment he just can fly about willy nilly. It's not consistent. I think part of it is the effects for air just being hard to see because of the medium itself. But no, I'd say he was 100% flying in a way that was inconsistent, and also... Korra. Idk if you watched Korra, but there's huge things about flight in the show. They just could have done literally anything else to show the character being innocent/childish or showing off his extraordinary power which they use later in like episode 3 or 4. Yet they did this weird... Disney magic flying shit that doesn't show you much. Also you got that virgin flare, I know you can do it lol!
I appreciate it. It may still be wind jumping or something and not true flight, but if you can jump endlessly off the air, then you’re basically flying. And yeah I’ve definitely seen Korra! There’s a lot to say about how that show’s martial arts followed the real evolution of combat sports
I don't know why you're apologizing for saying that Aang was flying in the first episode, he was flying that episode and not "gliding"
Ah yes more focus of “suki’s motivation” in the LA. it’s hot outsider boy is love interest, that’s her new motivation because that’s all that they focus on with her. :D (her added aquardness was fun addition just a shame with how it dosn’t well play with the motivation change. At least in a writing a good female character :T )
Well nice to see that their is some good things in here with the action! If they focused on her teaching like she dose with the other warriors it could be quite interesting!
Also no I don’t think it’s an L to “misread” aangs“gliding”as flight because Most people misread it at flight. That is a greater issue on the production part that they intended it as gliding and made it look like flight! Being unclear with movements and action and bending limits is a key flaw they’ve have.
My only issue with the actual fighting was motivations and not using the disciplines established beforehand.
Also those are unfortunate implications with her motivations that I didn’t consider
Yeah the hand fight in the forest with Suki and Sokka was weird. They could've kept the awkwardness of Suki by having her grab Sokka, but then not make her a jerk, by letting Sokka react, more like Suki was trying to see how Sokka would defend himself instead of just choking him right away.
Your knowledge of martial arts action is impressive. I'm Learning a lot
I appreciate your kind words and support! I’ve been at it in different disciplines since I was 4
I don't want to watch the Netflix show (ep1 sucked so hard I didn't bother anymore) so these criticisms make me learn a lot from the original show. I'm enjoying these videos a lot, thank you for making them!
No problem, happy to talk about them! I would still give it a watch just because there are aspects that are well done. I imagine that the story changes are the biggest turn off
@@camgoodkicks I'm certain I'd give it a go in a while!
I really want to see an analyzation of the martial arts techniques and moves used throughout the original show.
I was thinking about that. Or a series of movies or anime. I may have to put it up to a poll
I've been practicing aikido for 12 years now and yeahhh, Suki's actress definitely could have used more practice before shooting. My pet peeve with the depiction of aikido on screen is that the stunt coordinators tend to focus on the form too much, when the most important thing to make aikido believable is the fluidity of movement, the lack of tension in the body. I would prefer them to use the simplest of techniques if it meant the actress used her time training to learn to hold her body right.
There is a reason aikido gets ridiculed as just being "dancing" and it's the emphasis we place on tying one movement into another and that's just something that was missing from Suki completely.
The other thing is that Aikido looks best with full body angles. They need to pull the camera back to capture all of the nuances
I just watched your first video and wondered how long it will take for your next video. To my suprise you just uploaded it already. Imma grab some popcorn for this one. (sorry I don't have anything interesting to say. 😅)
I appreciate you taking the time just to comment. I’m editing episode 3 right now! Should all be dropping on Mondays
christmas came early!!
I started having a light interest in martial arts not too long ago, but this channel really makes me want to try and take it up. Good videos talking about the Netflix series man 👍
Do it! Which ones were you interested in?
@@camgoodkicks Well mostly Aikido and Kung fu. And maybe Tai chi too? I don’t really know any specifics branches of them though but those three generally caught my interest.
@train4292 Well it depends on what you’re looking for, but 90% of martial arts schools worth their salt will give you at least a few lessons free to try it out!
I love your channel. I am a kung fu prationer and martial arts movie enthuaithst. And I am so happy seeing you break down the terrible fight scenes in this series. My biggest gripe with future episodes of the show is: just when you think there might be an awesome fight scene, the show starts prioritizing humour over good fights, and the fights leave you disappointed
ps: have you seen the new Japanese martial arts movie that just came out recently 'one percent warrior'? it's fantastic
Oh man, the still end early huh? Guess I’ll get there when I get there.
Also, I have not seen 1% Warrior yet, I’ve been stupid busy with this and watching Godzilla X Kong for my other channel. I’ll check it out
18:00 Zhao and his Dairy Queen-ass fighting
Literally serving his firebending
Thanks for the analysis. I wish they have put more effort in the continuity of the fights and blockings.
And what I noticed was, the warrior's fans. When Suki threw it to cut the watermelons, it looks like metal. But later when they were training, they used paper fans. We even got the close up shot of blocking using paper fan at 11:43 , and it looked weak lol. Idk if that was supposed to be a training fan, but it looks like in the real fight they used paper fans too, and against fire, so...
I had a line about that originally, but I’m okay with swapping fans for practice purposes. I’m more annoyed that none of the techniques are set up or paid off
Yknow I didn't even realize the directors changed after ep 2 and thta explains so much. Eps 1 and 2 are SO bad I would recommend skipping them to anyone watching for the first time.
Also, tidbit I think you'd like, Dallas Liu, Zukos actor, is an old school tricker! There's a reason his form and choreo seems so much better than many others imo.
Idk how far you've ACTUALLY watched it, but the show gets much better from here. And my fave fight from the season is coming up and I'm stoked to see what you think of it.
Up to episode 4! And yeah I was well aware of who Dallas was before his casting!
Great vids! I enjoy watching your breakdowns! I noticed a lot of things I didn't at first!
Appreciate it! I love all things martial arts!
Commenting for the Algorithm!! Hope your channel grows! :D.
Thanks so much for the support! It means a ton
6:53 That's not a Seoi Nage, that's Tai Otoshi. Sokka is not being thrown over the back, and Suki's stance is wide with her right leg extended. Her center of gravity is show leaning backwards in the 2nd cut, which is very bad, but otherwise it should work as show.
Oh you are RIGHT! Great catch
"Focusing on the wrong things" This is essentially my main critique of everything the adaptation did. I went in consciously asking myself, "what info do I need to make this make sense?" A lot of the time, it wasn't something I had seen in the adaptation, but something from the original show filling in the gaps, though this did get better during the later episodes. This is why I really dislike Iroh in the adaptation, as once I realized I was filling in his character for the adaptation and stopped doing so, I was left with a fairly hollow, stiff, and surprisingly uncaring character. And this is despite the extreme exposition problem the show has. How can they be telling us so much while also missing so much? Because they're focusing on entirely the wrong things.
Suggesting half speed was a nice touch, but I wasn't prepared for half speed Benny Hill. lol
I really, really appreciate you pointing out how memefied Kyoshi is. She was never like that in the show (maybe the comics? I haven't read hers, and generally find a lot of the post ATLA stuff to expose a bunch of problems under the hood). Like, she knows she's talking to a child, right? A kid younger than he's supposed to be to know he's the avatar? An air nomad kid, whose culture she would have spent at least a year immersed in, let alone all the years she would have been working with in her role as the Avatar? I'd bring up that he's also her, too, but Korra revealed that reincarnation isn't actually a thing that's in this world and the adaptation uses the same verbiage as the original did that belies the creators misunderstanding of the concept...
I don't think it's an L to think Aang was flying. The evidence for it is not readily apparent for the same reason the show made everyone think Aang is flying: the editing/framing. "Aang flying" is still a massive problem, it's just not what is literally happening but the result of poor film making techniques. Just as the fights don't necessarily show actual fighting/sparring, the pantomime has to make you think they fighting is real. If it makes you think something else, that's on them, not you. However, if we're doing a deconstruction of the media, it is nice to figure out what actually went wrong and put the blame where it's due. And if you think Aang flying is bad, wait until you find out that the group of Earthbenders in the movie did not throw the singular rock, the editing just makes it look like it was them (the bending is still bad, though, just not for the reason the scene is infamous).
Yeah, you’re not the only one that feels hollow after seeing the Netflix adaptation. I’m almost done editing the third episode and even though the show changes so much, it’s weird how much of it still relies on prior experience with the animated version
Netflix Avatar in general lost its martial arts heritage
It has its moments still! Turns out a lot can change depending on the director
For me the fact that Suki was clearly clumsy and amateurish, while teaching other much more seasoned people, was a show of what the showrunners thought of nartial arts and the viewer.
Physical prowess should've been included in the requirements when casting, but none of the actors even remotely athletic in a sense that is needed for martial arts. They maybe were going to the gym. but tbh going to the gym does not equate to having good coordination and fluidity in motion.
A lot of people cite the fact that most of the actors are kids (not really, except for Aang and Katara, the rest of the cast was around 20), but I've been around circus kids all my life and none of them would've moved so clumsily as Ty Lee. Kids are wininning gold medals in Olympics for goodness sake! Kids who are proficient in their martial arts or sports are extremely aware of their body and movement. Especially circus kids. At the age of 14 some of them do aerial acrobatics for a living. You can see I'm really salty about Ty Lee.
To be perfectly honest I have no idea how they managed to find Asian kids who were not forced to do martial arts, it's as if they were looking for the most inadequate for the job. Ty Lee should be a circus kid, Azula should've practiced all her life as a maniac to prove that her brother is a loser. Aang was taught martial arts since he was a toddler. I do not believe that there were no kids that were forced to go into martial arts. They could've recruited from martial arts studious! But they never reached out to anybody who had at least some proficiency in the martial arts, and never taught the actors the right movements. Which means it was an intentional choice.
Don't know about the others, but I do believe the actress for Ty Lee has a dance and tumbling background, which could translate to the gymnastics movements from Ty Lee in the animated show. We'll have to see though
So I have an entire section on this dedicated to it in the next video. But what I did not go over is how heavily red taped all of film and entertainment media is.
This was a primarily Canadian show, and when it comes to casting there are laws they have to follow. There’s also other incentives to hire who they do. They can’t just pick people from wherever
Isnt your roots one of the fundamentals of Fire-bending?
The fight scenes in Avatar the animated series (both AtlA and Korra) is amazing, following the fundimentals of martial arts with the theatrics of old Hong Kong kung fu movies.
One of the missed opportuneties of Netflix avatar is the lack of wire work. Put Aang on some wires deam it!
They actually have more wire work in episode 3!
Unfortunately it’s awkward
Would love to see your take on ep3 as well
It will be up tomorrow morning!
I had to agree with you
Netflix said its a reimagining. But I wish they kept the characters the same just reacting to different situations. Plus the martial arts is really a let down. I also agree that they made Kyoshi just angry and aggressive when in the animated series she was zen and grounded. But I think this kyoshi's character is consistent with her comics version where she has a firebender girlfriend. So I guess netflix is ahead of the story.😂
Possibly! But it’s a little strange how meme culture retroactively changed the perspective on her
Rangi my beloved
Inspired content as always. Keep it up.
Appreciate it bro!
Nah you saying that Aang was Flying wasn't an L at all. That's Basically what he was doing *Verbatim*
We see what actual gliding in the show is and what Aang did in the 1st episode was not it even remotely. He even pushes himself back up with Air while Mid Air. He's Basically Flying at that Point
I actually like the Caillou-Style copyright evasion, if you find it to be necessary.
So... You sat with your legs spread open for the entire video?
That is something to be proud of
I do my voice overs in the splits. It keeps me consistent and I take my practice very seriously. It also helps make me stand out 😝
Thanks for the kind words!
Really enjoying this series!
2:11 you don’t need to out yourself out, I love Avatar Roku as well.
Completely adore Roku’s story
@@camgoodkicks Good news! Roku is getting his own novel in the works
@@nugget3327 WOOOO!
As much as I think the complaint that “the martial arts doesn’t look like martial arts” is pretty dumb, at least he’s able to admit that he’s wrong about Aang flying when he wasn’t🤷🏾♂️
It may just be a martial artist thing, then. Thanks for the comments and support!
are you northern or southern based? that bit at 12:29 looks like a southern sow chois but im sure theres similar stuff in the northern schools
My southern experience is relegated to some Hung Gar and a lotta Wing Chun. Currently studying Northern Shaolin and ChangQuan contemporary wushu
18:00
That was Zhao?! That was pathetic!!
Yup.
New Sub
How exactly did Sokka get his bow wrong, except not doing the exact same as them again?
More or less, different styles do one of the two depending on regions and preferences from what I've seen. At least from southern styles like Hung Gar I've seen people mostly doing the one Sokka did here.
That’s actually what makes that cool. His bow is informed by a different culture
Hey you forgot one thing...when this happened 19:04 katara is still there behind kyoshi and then kyoshi leave for the village and lands there immediately after 2-3 seconds but she is not alone somehow avatar katara also managed to cover the same distance with more speed and when kyoshi lands avatar katara is already there in the village watching kyoshi do magic stuff😂😂😂 at the very start of the episode they showed the shrine and the village are completely on different areas so how the hell katara would have covered the same distance in no time by running or whatever??
I had to eschew moments like that because of how little it impacted the choreography, but I promise you weren’t alone in noticing how quickly they travelled
omg the shoutout
I gotchu. Might make this a recurring thing since yall teach me so much
I feel like you watched the overanalyzing Avatar series, I also noticed that Katara takes her glove off to waterbend, we overanalyzers have unnecessary knowledge like that small detail that's easily missed
@@Lavanence i do watch him but can’t remember him pointing it out. i just watch the show and watch people react to the show a lot
@@icecreamguru7584 he never pointed it out, I'm just saying we all have a keen eye for the finer details
Oh no….he doesn’t know about the rest of the series….oh no no no……
Please don’t tell me that 🤣
Is it just me me or does the kyoushi warriors fighting style loos similar to the bending arts
Before i even watch the vid: that hadaki jime was sooo bad. Was ghere nobody on set who knew wgat they were doing?
Welp I’m on episode 3 and it get a bit better in places. Michael Goi is inexperienced with action
This is painful for me to watch. I was so upset with the entire thing. It felt sleepy but flashy. It's exactly the worst combination.
Watching it broken down is reliving this trauma of the live series.
I’m so sorry
@@camgoodkicks you gotta let them know man. They have to hear the voice of the people.
Y'all f'd up!!! Bad!
Let em know my man!
@@EvilWeiRamirez episode three is almost done editing!
👄👁️👄