Racism isn’t cringe. Racism hurts people. When I experience racism, I don’t cringe, I feel dehumanized, deeply saddened, and hurt. Racism to shock people who are not affected by racism still hurts people affected by racism.
idubbbz posted a tweet, and while it doesn't mention Charlie by name, I know I'm not alone in feeling that it is directed towards him and people who share his sentiments. It said, "I welcome opinions about my apology from people and communities whom the apologies were directed at. - that is where my care starts and ends"
I honestly kinda loved this response lol never liked Ian, but I felt he really *gets it* and that’s terribly rare. Charlie trying to keep another white creator from gaining understanding and apologizing to those he hurt feels like I live in a damn dystopia
@@moonchild977 i have no interest in idubbbz or his content, but his apology did make me change the way i view him - from going "ew, that guy" every time i saw his name pop up, to now just going "whatever". he showed a level of self-awareness that is so incredibly uncommon for youtube apologies, i was surprised he even addressed how pathetic it was to develop empathy as a grown ass man. when i went to watch his apology i was ready to silently judge but it was refreshing to see someone who apologized because they meant it (or at least seemed to), and also understood why what he did was wrong and the negative impact it had. it's the bare minimum but sadly, it's very rare to see. (sorry lol i just wrote a whole ass paragraph just adding to "i felt he really gets it")
iDubbz: "I don't care if my intention wasn't to be an ass. I ended up causing problems and that's why I apologize." Critical: "Well. He didn't mean to be bad so he shouldn't apologize." My guy. You literally didn't get the point
@@enaidealukal4105 He definitely isn't. he might or might not be actually racist. However, he is one of those "centrist dudebros" so he needs to keep all things on an even center position. Thus, he can't have strong opinions politically cause he'll lose his public. At the end of the day, he does profit from the racists who watched iDubbz cause he validated their shit and, in order to not lose them, he has to do these mental gymnastics to maintain ALL SIDES on his audience...
@@Beto_Serrano Or you know, he could not make a video on it period lmao, thus he won't lose his precious lil fanboys and also won't make an ass of himself
@@cavemancult1999 While I'm inclined to agree with you, his being silent would also definitely get noticed in its own way. It's the kind of topic he would absolutely make a video about, and Idubbbz is such a huge and influential creator (for better or for worse, and almost definitely for worse) that not talking about this giant apology would be kind of weird.
I knew multiple white teenagers who would use every slur Idubbz did and parroted his reasoning. But like. The whole thrill of saying a slur is that it’s taboo, it’s forbidden. They knew exactly what they were doing. Not cute.
That's a big part of the problem, it isn't "taboo", it's fucking dehumanizing to the affected group. Slurs are genuinely connected to horrors in someone's community. These people have no empathy or consideration.
@@mewmew6158 Exactly. Issue is, it feels "Just taboo" to THEM. To the white kids saying that shit. They've never experienced racism, so they can't take it seriously. It's so bullshit. Learn empathy.
I didn’t use those slurs but I was definitely one of those white kids saying ‘it’s either all ok or none of it is’, my mind was a sponge and that sponge was laced with rat poison
The way Critical kept saying that iDubbz didn't cause a genocide or ruin anyone's lives... Like, is that the bar??? If you do anything less than cause a literal genocide, then anything you say or do is beyond reproach? Nothing besides actual murder warrants an apology? What a hot take.
Also I think Charlie is just proving why white supremacy is so dangerous he feels the need to defend a white man because he feels as if idubbz has been attacked even though this is idubbz decision to apologize
It infantilizes white people and especially white men. However the black children who had to hear the N word from peers have to have adult levels of maturity and emotional regulation or else they are labelled “thugs”
As someone who was in high school at the peak of iDubbbz’ success, I can confidently say Charlie is completely wrong about the real world impact of iDubbbz’ content. So many people my age quite literally watched kids tranform to mimic his humor and rhetoric, and also saw how those kids’ behavior impacted their classmates who belong to marginalized groups. This wasn’t just “internet culture”- it became a part of everyday real world interactions all over the country, maybe even the world. Charlie is so painfully out of touch here, thank you for making this
I live in France and some of my classmates who could barely speak fluently English would start using the n word 24/7 because he was one of the creators pushed by the algorithm at the time to people who watched videos in English
This! I am currently in high school and would like to confirm that the kids who watched him in middle school still mimic him to some degree. A lot of the boys in my grade are still attached to that "edgy" sense of humor and love making everyone uncomfortable with racism, homophobia, transphobia, animal cruelty/abuse, etc.
I was in middle school when he was at his peak. Hell, I used to watch his stuff. Thankfully I never said or used slurs myself, never felt the desire to, but it still rubbed off on me and made me complacent when other kids, especially white boys, repeated his "jokes." I can't say exactly how it affected all of the marginalized kids at my school. But I can say that one year we lost one of them to suicide. He was gay and black, and maybe 14 years old. I don't know if it was even affected by any of this, I'm certainly not saying it is or blaming anyone, but it feels worth mentioning. Either Charlie is completely and totally ignorant, or he can't handle the guilt that comes with growth.
(TW: Mention of S*xual Harassment) Uhg. I was probably in elementary or middle school during the height of cringe culture/“edgy” behavior, and I remember being AFRAID of boys who would consume that content and then mimic it. Some of these boys made r*pe threats towards me and otherwise harassed me and other girls. We had an autistic boy in one of my classes and kids would purposely agitate him and belittle his feelings. I reported it and one of the bullies tried to get his friends to beat me up.
This completely turned me off to Charlie, can't lie. There is something so frustrating and tired about straight White guys that have never had to face discrimination telling minorities to suck it up because they're just being edgy or "They're just words, don't give them power" while simultaneously getting extremely butthurt at "words" like racist, bully, incel, etc. I still avoid stuff like online gaming and posting on social media because I had so many experiences of it just devolving into being called racial and homophobic slurs constantly. I still remember I posted a video about winning a dance competition and being excited because it aired on TV only for the first 2 comments to be people calling me homophobic slurs so I took it down. It was awful and still is awful just in general when minorities have to deal with hate even day to day in real life. Yet straight White guys like Charlie always come to their defense like "I don't like that he's basically calling his old fans bullies and racists" when he and a lot of his old fans were bullies and racists, that's what they did to real people who kept telling them to stop and they told them to "toughen up" while they cry at the insinuation that they're racist when they literally went around calling people the N word for fun.
I never really liked him, I see people sharing some of his progressive leftist opinions lately, and yeah its good that he has those, but this reaction just confirms my gut feeling that hes still a reactionary white lib.
I'm sorry that those people treated you and others that way. No one deserves that. Congratulations on the win and for making it on tv! I'm so proud of you!
Feels like serious projection on Moist's part. He wants to justify the videos because he enjoyed them back in the day, and instead of unpacking why he enjoyed those videos and coming to an understanding of how his worldview has been affected by antiblackness, he goes on the defensive and tries to explain to himself and the audience why Ian's use of slurs wasn't actually racist. There are a lot of us who watched and enjoyed those videos when we were younger; a big part of living an anti racist lifestyle is learning how to recognize the racist sentiments that you yourself have and analyzing how they've influenced your behaviors, videos you used to like, etc. Hope he gains some self awareness soon.
This was a super in-depth response, and I completely agree. Charlie sees Ian’s admission of guilt as a “reason” for Charlie to actually question whether or not his (Charlie’s) channel/interest in iDubbbz’ channel contributed to the problem. Charlie doesn’t like that and it makes him personally uncomfortable about his subconscious thoughts and feelings, so he hard deflects over an apology that was never meant for Charlie to begin with. I don’t think he’s doing it intentionally per say, but I do think that he’s intentionally avoiding unpacking all of that stuff.
@@parker1443 Yours and OPs response all the way 100% I was also so confused by some of his arguments about stuff that Idubbz didnt even mention in the video. First I thought it was Charlie just not understanding Idubbz points but no Charlie was making up stuff to feel better about himself. Kinda selfcentred all around, I hope he learns from this experience.
There's nothing worst for Charlie's specific breed of Internet users than being cringe. To them, being cringe (whatever it means) is the ultimate disgrace, maybe even, the greatest of all the sins that one can commit. kinda cringe imo ngl
I love it how people like charlie dont say racists, they just say "weirdos" because if we call them weirdos then we dont have to deal with the fact that racism isn't weird in our society
I mean in a way, it is weird like we’re taught that racism is no good and we see people nowadays being racist despite the fact that everyone knows that’s beyond being frowned upon because it’s unacceptable. But yeah, I do think Charlie and even other people like him should just say it as it is.
The way he said it was so weird as well like🤡 "yeah every bag has a bad apple... a silly goober that doesn't see the joke..🤡." on a channel...That used to have it as a catchphrase... And harass ppl with it... like brother-
The "it was fine back then" argument falls apart when you point out that the shock factor WAS the goal. If the things being said are fine to say, why is it shocking that you're saying them? They're fine to admit that they were doing it intentionally because I think that feels more justifiable. "oh no, I didn't say slurs because I'm racist, I said slurs because it was controversial and shocking. But also they were fine to say at the time." Right...
It's observable in real time how "the point at which it was okay to be a bigoted asshole" gets pushed further and further forward. The existence of marginalized folks is perpetually treated as super recent.
Yeah...the whole "it was a different time" argument... In the 2010s? I mean, it kinda was, in the sense there were a few years there when a bunch of teenage boys realized they could get away with acting like this on the internet and no one could stop them. They lived in a bubble, and other teenage boys entered the bubble. Then when the bubble burst, and people outside in the real world told them NO, they're getting all bothered by it. I think this is partly where the whole freakout about "wokeism" and "cancel culture" comes from. They want to say the outrage over their behavior is some new thing, some "woke mind virus" or whatever. Well, as someone old enough to remember as far back as the 70s, I assure you this has NEVER been ok. Like if they want to go back to a time when their casual racism and misogyny was ok, they'd have to back to AT LEAST the 50s. And even then they'd get significant pushback. "It was a different time, man." When? 1912?
Agreed, that is the weakest argument ever and just displays how ignorant the person is. You know what was also "fine" a few years ago? Segregation. You know what was fine as well? Slavery. I wonder what he has to say about that.
I think that’s because that’s how they feel about it. It’s like people who complain about wokeness as if no one has been advocating for all of those things for a very long time. The difference is only that they can no longer ignore it
They want to make the discussion "Edgy versus Cringe" when really it's just, "Is this racist?" (Hint: If you are using slurs, it's racist.) They want to be able to say, "Obviously we aren't racist. I mean, no one *I* know is racist and we all used slurs, so it must just be cringe now." The lack of self awareness and awareness period is flabbergasting to me.
I wish Charlie realized how much edgy humor really, really, really hurt disabled people. I grew up autistic at a school for disabled people and it was that humor that pitted kids with autism, intellectual disabilities, and physical disabilities against kids with adhd, "aspergers" and dyslexia. It was not ian specifically, but him and his whole culture that made people fucking hate autistic people. It's so hard to explain unless you were autistic. And I hate when higher function autistic people will talk over us and say edgy humor didn't hurt them when it hurt me. Any autistic kid that wasn't male or white or especially cisgender were bullied MERCILESSLY. The people that did not see you as human used Ian's same talking points: the idea that it's okay to bully autistic people as long are aren't a hypocrite. There is no negotiating with people that see you as animals and it was edgy UA-cam that made people feel justified in their hate towards disabled people.
The ableism, homophobia, and racism were so harmful. ESPECIALLY to those of us that are more than one of those things. I was undiagnosed with autism, yet I was still black and weird so I got a bit of everything🙄 Guess who those little shits watched? Pewdiepie and Ian.
And it still baffles me that none neurodivergent people are still pushing to use "retard", especially against disabled people. Hell, there are even autistic people who'd never been affected by "retard" and siding with the use of it against neurodivergent people. Like even lefties are refusing to let it go.
Literally yes. Like, as a black autistic person, being a fan of idubbz back in the day was basically an online signifier that said “You are not welcome in this space”. And Charlie thinks he doesn’t have to apologize for becoming a symbol for ableist racists? C’mon.
a white man telling another white man "don't apologize for bullying or racism but please do apologize for being cringe" is a perfect depiction of online cringe culture in the last 10 years tbh
I was pleasantly surprised to see Charlie's comment section criticizing him for being a white man dismissing an apology that was not really meant for him. We really need to normalize not having an opinion on things that have nothing to do with us.
The problem is his content thrives on him inserting himself as a white cishet man. He wants to be a centrist who pleases everyone while pretending he's just "making a middle ground" not recognizing how that "middle ground" just causes more harm, especially to marginalized communities. It's why I hate videos that specifically do that. When there was "drama" with Mr. Beast's friend Chris, he tries to avoid using pronouns for them and defended Mr. Beasts Poverty porn content. He wants to try and keep all sides of his audience while not revealing what he "truly" thinks about something. Lots of centrist ideas in my personal opinion are very white centered and try and insert non marginalized communities into topics they have no business being in because they feel entitled to have a say in everything. Even if what they have to say is harmful. With this he wanted to try and say "racism and bigotry is bad(he instead used language like " cringe" and "weirdos")" while also saying "you don't need to apologize for racism and bigotry(he displays that by claiming there was no need for the apology as HE didn't see any impact idubbz content caused that was harmful)" teetering between the 2 to overall try and say: "just don't apologize bro, just don't address it at all. Be like me and keep all the people who watch you around even if they are from a time you personally find to be harmful"
I SO agree with this. especially the last part, like sometimes it's ok to not have an opinion or hot take about a topic, sometimes it's none of your business and some people online should really learn this
He's a centrist who doesn't understand that when the center is between the true center and the right, that being a centrist makes you a soft right winger.
Man i remember when i used to experience racism, and homophobia, in middle school just to go home and one of the biggest people on the internet at the time justifed it. It really made me and my problems feel so small. So when Idubbz apologized it lifted a weight off my shoulder. Then Charlie uploaded his response and it just brought me back to middle school for a moment.
Don't worry bro, we've all (as in us black or mixed people) experienced that horrific shit but just know that you are still kicking and that's all that matters, you're a great guy and I wish you well in life
The entire backlash to Ian has really illuminated that UA-cam hasn't actually changed. The racists are just a little quieter now. Ian's apology is sincere, it's mature and it's reflective. It doesn't matter what his intent was and he realises that and he wants to try to undo some of the harm he's caused to people. The fact anyone would feel the need to criticise him over this is so depressing.
its crazy how most of us who were in school during the time his videos were popular experienced similar things. i am so sorry for anyone who had to deal with that. at the time it felt as if there was no hope in speaking out about it because people would ridicule you for criticizing the use of slurs.
The way he acts like a youtuber having to apologize is like the absolute worst punishment possible. Like i can excuse racism, but i draw the line at apologies
I love how they call the n-word and slurs just cringe. It's like the implication is just... it's not funny anymore. Not even that it's bad to say slurs, it just isn't funny lol
LOL exactly, the way he was like "in your 30s, you just don't find slurs funny anymore" that really took me out hahaha. it's not that you learn that slurs are racist and stop saying them, you just outgrow "cringe, edgy humor" and that's why you stop! really says a lot about how much Charlie himself has grown as a person over the last decade lmao
@lilamasand5425 Came here to point out that exact quote, I thought it was very strange. It really does seem like he views that "humor" as just juvenile and immature and doesn't see the genuine harm it caused to the people that culture targeted. I think his defense of idubbz here is probably a lot about defending himself for enjoying that content at one point. He wasn't engaging with casual racism excused as jokes that created a culture where people could be racist/homophobic/sexist under the guise of joking or being edgy. He didn't exist in a culture where someone saying it's not funny it's hurtful would get them dogpiled by actual slurs and -ism/-phobia. He was just young, edgy, and cringe and that culture was just a bit of fun. I think idubbz has realized the harm and Charlie has yet to
It's also crazy to me when white people feel that they have the right to make the call about whether someone is racist or not. That has never and will never be my place. If a poc says that someone or something is racist and has hurt them, I will always believe them. How is that even up for debate? People love to talk but never listen
@gilfhound69 Because Indigenous people and other People of Colour exist too, and are also harmed by racism? Or do you think that someone who would embrace an environment hostile to Black people would be openly accepting of other POCs? Try pulling your head out of your ass.
I also really love that idubbz hasn’t made his apology the problem of black (also queer, etc) creators. He hasn’t tried to force it on people. He’s said it, he’s expressed how he’s going to try to be better in the short and the long term, and then he’s just shut up to get on with it. Love that. He’s not trying to do a 9 part series on him being less racist. He’s just being quiet I appreciate that.
I've seen public apologies get rejected as insincere, but this is the only time I've seen an apology get criticized for going too far. Leave it to white centrists.
Hahaha. So true! It's because he's basically calling them out indirectly. They all know that what they did was shitty but they can't admit it to themselves.
I think it's even worse than that. He assumes the only legitimate perspective is a white one because people like him (those white people) view themselves as being "objective" when it comes to the matters of race and racism. They think they have a neutral and balanced perspective. They see POC as being "biased" and over-sensitive.
I hate how much Charlie exaggerates in this video to minimize the severity of the issue. “It’s not like he was killing puppies!” He was still being bigoted, which is *bad.* “Ian doesn’t deserve to be publicly flogged with tomatoes thrown at him for the rest of his life.” Obviously, no one’s doing that. No one even asked him for this apology video, he did it of his own volition. He wasn’t harassed into doing it, and he’s not being publicly shamed. Harassment/dogpiling is definitely a real issue on the internet, but this isn’t an instance of that. I hate this rhetorical device. It’s so annoying and disingenuous. Charlie has to overexaggerate because he can’t just outright admit that being bigoted and saying slurs is WRONG, regardless of intent. It’s honestly pathetic to watch him dance around such an obvious fact.
This is one reason I never like Charlie to begin with it’s not even just with this apology he just talks this in general. This reaction the the apology is just the worst version of it
I said it on D’angelo’s tweets and I’ll say it here, Charlie should have spent that time making those two videos deleting whatever 10 year old racist tweets he has sitting in the cut. Because that response was giving very much projection
I’m black and it’s funny how he avoids saying racism/racist he didn’t even mention homophobia or transphobia at all cause he never does. If Charlie doesn’t want to speak on LGBTQ problems he definitely shouldn’t about black ones either because he was definitely a fan and felt attacked by Idubbz content.
It's quite rich how someone an apology wasn't meant for, is shouting and saying "you shouldn't have to apologize". It's almost as if he's projecting his guilt on idubbz taking accountability
Exactly! Moist needs to deal with his insecurity. It's like he watched the apology, and he thought, "Wait. Did I do a racism by liking those videos? Noooooooo!!"
THIIIIIIIIIIIIS BITCH!!!! That was my immediate thought when I watched D'Angelo Wallace's video on this topic!! Moist keeps say "I don't think it was his _intention_ ...", "That wasn't his _intention_ ..." , "The _intention_ wasn't...." Like, bitch! The saying "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" exists for a reason!!! "Intention" really _doesn't_ matter when you throw out slurs as casually as you breathe air! "Intention" doesn't matter when you give racists an excuse to _be racist_ by claiming shit like "It's all slurs or no slurs," "We give these slurs their power," "Slurs are just words that have no meaning"-- especially when you are not directly harmed by the use of those slurs to dehumanize you and the world around you screams at you while they strip away your rights and make it impossible to exist, because these whackjobs want to see you assimilated or dead because they're so deeply offended by you being alive.
that was exactly my thought especially because he keeps coming back to saying that Ian was "never a bad person" and "never really hurt anyone". it REALLY sounds like he feels really guilty, like a bad person, for hurting people with his actions or words.
Times really were NOT that different in 2016. I remember, I was here! I feel like people are lying to my face when they say this wasn't a big deal. Saying the N-Word has been very controversial for decades!
Exactly lmao. We can even go as far back to the 80s and the use of teaching kids about the Adventure's of Huckleberry Finn book. One big reason it was considered so controversial was because of the use of the N-word by the white characters. Even back when the book was first published many critics said the language used in the novel was too vulgar. The n-word has been controversial for a LONG time. It's weird hearing people say that 2016 was a different time like what
I think the people saying it was a different time mean specifically on the internet. People back then still felt there to be a disconnect between real life and being online. I remember arguing with one of my teachers about how online harassment was real. They werent old either max 30 years old. Now people are seeing consequences for their actions online people are finally starting to realise you should be conducting yourself online as you do offline.
@@jakob8646 I was online at the time. It was controversial then. They just harrassed POC so bad to keep quiet about it and not complain, labeling them as entitled snowflakes if they didn't.
@@angelacanedit yeah it was not okay even then. But the point im trying to make is people literally didnt believe online harassment was real. “Just turn off the screen”. I think now people realise the very real consequences that online harassment has, people see things differently..
Centrist are such interesting people. The way they do mental gymnastics to justify the way they think is always fascinating to see, rarely do they ever do enough research or consult with people who are effected by bigotry. Yet, they’ll stand high on their “moral” high ground to feel superior to both marginalized and bigoted people.
i used to watch a centrist and i used to find his takes insightful and challenging, the more that time has progressed i've found him more annoying and patronizing. the way he treats protest is shit, the way he dodges around proper discussions by vaguely alluding to broad ideas like "we all need to talk to each other more!" the man clearly has had a great life and doesn't have much first hand experience with systematic struggle. The way he just brushes away people's struggles and complaints away is so infuriating.
Great comment. They are often quite smug about how being "above it all" makes them more intellectual or more level headed. When in reality it is a weak stance of fence sitting that allows the status quo and bigotry to persist.
It is literally the same with the right and left as well, but since you ARE part of that, you don't see it. I think you clearly misunderstand what a centrist actually is, by a large margin. Moist is not a centrist. It's not about "being in the middle and not taking sides", it's about taking the good ideas from both sides and not being ignorant about the bad ones like said sides both dominantly are. I will call out the right when they're being racist, not caring about marginalized people, or being hypocritical, and I will do the same to the left when they talk down to white people for being white, make REALLY bad financial decisions in government (as they often do), and are just being massive hypocrites (although the first point is already hypocritical). There HAS to be a middle ground because both sides are absolutely batshit crazy. To the left and right, if you're not far left or far right, you're absolute scum. That fact that morons still buy into this "2-Party system" from hundreds of years ago is further proof of that. Fact of the matter is, both the left and the right have a VERY distinct "If you're not against us" mentality, which is what stupid people do. It's also incredibly stupid to lump all centrists together, because that makes absolutely no sense since every single one has vastly different opinions and viewpoints. I am extremely for human rights (and am gay and black myself), but I'm not in a hivemind that can't see the terrible stuff the left (and those associated) do sometimes. While I dislike the right more for the same reasons, the left is not immune to their ignorant mob mentality they shove down peoples' throats. I consider myself more to the left, but the left doesn't give a damn because I haven't pledged my allegiance and my first born child. Charlie may (or may not )be moderate in his views, but that doesn't mean he won't make some of the stupid decisions that the right or left does.
@@llynxfyremusic Sounds like centralism is just "I have right-wing views but think that it'll keep me afloat or give me more fans as a content creator to be mysterious and ambiguous" under a trenchcoat
You hit the nail on the head with the Shane Dawson point. His lap dance video with a 12 year old girl was horrifying, and hearing him say that there was a time that being a grown man and getting lap dance performances from children was ok in 2012 or whatever was SO bizarre... It's like - were we on the same planet earth??? Coz I remember lap dances with minors still being a crime back then. And the racism - I knew in 2016 that saying the N word was wrong. I commented on Iddubzs video that I didn't agree with his use of the slur. It was not some national secret lmao. Some of these white people seriously live on a different planet earth.
i think it’s strange he won’t acknowledge racists are that, deplorable racists. instead, he uses words like weirdos or cringe. he definitely doesn’t understand the true severity to dehumanization
I think he might at least somewhat understand it, but to acknowledge it would mean taking on some of the guilt of being part of that culture so he has to minimise and justify it.
The problem for me is that they keep using this word edgy being blatantly racist and using racial slurs is not edgy it’s just racism you cannot justify that his take was very awful nobody can tell marginalized communities to get over centuries of those words being used to degrade and disrespect poc
As someone who has been watching your content since before 2016, it's funny how people like to say that no one was criticizing bigoted/edgy/racist "humor." Yeah, sure, no one...
No one Moist was listening to, anyway. And since everything is about Moist and Moist's memory is the only objective truth, I guess we should thank him for posting this video. Otherwise, how would we know what to think?
Huh I guess Kat was just making lets plays up until 2020 and then suddenly started making social justice videos out of nowhere. Weird nobody was criticizing it. This is really just an admission by him that the only thing he was watching back in 2016 was white youtubers.
If someone punches Charles in the face, I hope someone other than Charles tells his attacker that they shouldn't have to apologize. Because you see, when the attacker punched him in the face he didnt mean it with hateful intent. He just thought it would be funny to punch Charles in the face; he wanted to spread his love of slap-stick with the world!
lol WELL PERSONALLY I think it's ok to decide not to punch anyone in the face, not because it's wrong and hurts people, of course...but because it's cringe now /s
Should the author then apologize for every "sucker punch" game on asian people? Which is done not by those wacky nazis, but by black population? Or it's woke racism, so it doesn't count?
Every time he just claims none of this stuff effected people I think of the vile harassment Franchesca Ramsey for her honestly pretty mild criticism of racist shock humour.
or anytime his audience goes over to harass and bully the people he makes fun of in his videos, which he calls out as bad (but he obviously is allowed to do it because he is "only joking")🙄
@@user7061 Charlie could have just… checked. There’s so many examples that can be found in the literal comments of Ian’s video. The easiest research task.
@@spacecat7864 yeah, i'm confused why he even went to twitter...? there are people RIGHT BELOW HIS OWN VIDEO telling him how ians videos affected others and how this "wasn't normal", too! it makes you wonder, if he deliberately misses the point here. (which i would not be surprised about)
@@user7061 I thought that too. This UA-cam guy called The Kavernacle made a video about the centrist bro UA-camrs and after watching that I am more sure that’s what’s going on here.
I’m so glad you made this video. Moist’s response was terrible. He missed the entire point of the apology 🙄 and yeah, he has no right to say “you don’t need to apologize.” That’s not for him to decide, he wasnt the one affected.
People always forget that the opinions of those who are impacted by the harm. Those people knew the use of the word was wrong, so it’s not the time period in which it occurred that’s the problem.
Honestly everytime I watch videos review his terrible take I find something new that rubs me the wrong way. It's almost like he never thought his video through.
i feel like thinking a slur is okay to say bc it “doesn’t really mean anything anymore” or “it’s just a joke” or “it’s edgy” is like, the definition of privilege, whether it’s about race, gender, sexuality, disabilities, anything really.
I remember Franchesca Ramsey would say something in the lines of "racism is wrong" and people would be relentless and attack her. The same with you. I don't remember feeling these people were "edgy", just racist lol
She even had this one specific youtuber who made so much content about her and iirc even made like a parody song about her, I can’t imagine being her during that time
Yup, and I remember her getting attacked for criticizing Shane Dawson’s blackface era & him & his fans were brutally insulting her & even calling her racial & misogynist slurs as well as calling her dumb.
@@chewedw1re Exactly. I think the whole "he didn't intend to be racist, just edgy" is just a sugarcoated way of saying, "He wasn't out to hurt people. He just didn't care that he was hurting people."
To me, the problem with Charlie’s response all boils down to the question “Who is this for?” Charlie’s message can’t be for iDubbz, because iDubbz specifically said that he 1. Doesn’t care if he people who the apology wasn’t for don’t accept it and 2. He disagrees with those who say that he has nothing to apologize for. So how can Charlie be, comforting or supporting iDubbz, when he’s specifically going against what iDubbz said? His response is not for us, either, because telling people who the slurs affected that an apology was not warranted is disrespectful. So who feels better when you say stuff like that? Only someone who feels victimized by this apology. Only someone who feels the need to retroactively justify the things iDubbz is apologizing for.
I'm a year late, and this is what I was scrolling down the comments hoping to find. It's an inherently dishonest take. It's pretending to be something it's literally incapable of being, meaning that the real motivation is something unspoken. The real emotion behind it is not what's being conveyed on screen.
As someone who used to watch idubbz, his videos *definitely* did affect younger people. I use to be one of those blk people to be like “I’m not offended”, and those were the days where I would push my blackness away. I also used to be a veryyy negative and hateful person back then and I cringe hard every single time I’m reminded of it 💀
Being a kid who watched some of his videos, I remember his viewpoint about the n slur in his Tana Mongeau video and I couldn't get why it made me uncomfortable and tbh I still don't
His take on Ian's content cop was so weird to me 'cause he was very open about the fact that he was bullying these people. iDubbz expressed many times in the past that bullying is okay if he felt like they deserved it, and content cop was the direct result of that. So Charlie saying "he didn't mean to hurt them, he was just criticizing them while being funny" goes against Ian's own reasoning for making those videos
It’s so crazy how charlie keeps INSISTING that the use of racial slurs isn’t racist or hateful💀 I get the vibe that he probably enjoyed idubbz content back then.
And it's okay to admit that as long as you can understand that you changed and that idubbz content promoted the use of racist slurs to be used in racist ways. You can look back and say "yea that was pretty wrong of me to find that funny/or enjoyable but I didn't really know why I accepted that but now I do and I can be better" all we want is for people to do better. We all on some level have racist tendencies or internalized racist tendencies and it takes work to realize and do better. Idk why some people are so resistant to it. Resistant to admitting they were in the wrong. If you want to be a genuinely good person it takes constant work.
I'd go a step further and say likely still enjoys it...which is exactly why his ego was hit hard enough by that apology to feel the need to do this response video. If those racist, and otherwise bigoted, feelings were completely (or even adequately) behind him, he wouldn't have felt so called out.
It must be pretty wild to see the people who used to make/watch anti-SJW compilation of you then turn around and deny that people ever critiqued that "comedy style". Like no... things were not harmonious in 2016.
2016 was not “when all for nations were at peace” if we are going to go with his ATLA intro as the metaphor 2016 would be when the fire nation attacked.
Yeah it's wild to hear that anyone would really think that. Like, oh, you thought we were okay with all that? No dude, we just did not have the social power to make you stop saying or doing fucked-up things. People told you to stop; you did not listen.
Sure, but it's all about intent and context. A person can accidentally kill someone, so it's manslaughter, if they intended to, it's murder. The end result is death, but they're not the same thing. Complicated, but true.
@TiredPleb i don't think you can compare manslaughter to purposely saying slurs and saying harmful things but just not having the intention to be racist. it's not like he didn't know that slurs were hurtful, he just tried to justify them
@@Plebs_ I see what you're saying but it's not applicable in this situation. If I dubs the person who did the actions says I look back on it now and I realize it was wrong and I was wrong. Who is Charlie or anyone else to be like Well Your intentions were good so it's okay?
@@Plebs_ your exemple doesnt really work because youre comparing a case where someone does not intend to kill vs intent to kill to a situation where someone did intend to say a slur and said it, simply did not intend for it to be harmful. Your exemple of someone who kills despite not wanting to would be more fitting to someone who says slurs despite not wanting to, perhaps because they have tourrette's or something. A better comparaison for the situation at end here would be: someone who intends to punch someone else because they hate them and wants to injure them, doing it and succeding at it vs someone who wants to punch someone else because they think it'd be funny and they're convinced that the other person does not feel pain, punch them, injures them and realises that the person is in pain. Legally, im pretty sure that either way, that would be considered assault regardless of if the intent was to harm or not, because at the end of the day, you wanted to punch that person. Either way, comparing it to laws and legal systems to make a point doesnt really work either considering that laws changes from countries to countries, even within the same countries depending where you are. And some laws do not account for intent, like drug dealing for exemple does not account for if the dealer meant to induced addictions to the population or not, the sentence will be the same.
@@Plebs_ end result is still death and in this case the end result is still racism. Casual and joking racism is still racism, intent doesn't matter. If u say slurs you're still saying slurs idc if you're doing this in a joking manner (also it is such a privilege to view racism as a joke)
charlie is so clearly projecting and feels called out. It's so apparent in everything he says and how he says. It gets really obvious at the end where he's all like "don't talk bad abt ur old fans no should have to feel bad for thinking that was funny you're not a bad person for thinking that's funny". 1 thing about white men is that they got to make their hurt feelings everybody's problem. I seen it all the time online and irl, they'll pretend like they have a point to make, a hill to die on, when really they're just tryna get coddled bc it's what they're use to and what they expect. Like, what was the point of his video? really? Like, who on Earth EVER needs to make a video that boils down to "I, a white man, don't think other white people need to apologize for saying the n word. I think a white person apologizing for saying racial slurs is more morally reprehensible than them saying racial slurs" get absolutely real 🙄 he's just trying to assuage his guilt. It'd be embarrassingly pathetic if it was so infuriating.
I didn’t even notice this video when it first came out and I was looking at his comments and he got ate alive by his viewers, doubled down on his next video, and got eaten alive again. It’s it’s nice to see that some fan bases don’t mindlessly agree with what the content creator say when it is clear that they are in the wrong. Hopefully Charlie learns from this one day it’s unfortunate he didn’t want to listen to his viewers that spoke up.
I'm late to the party here, but Charlie is the bellwether for normie opinions. people from all over the spectrum watch him to keep their hand on the pulse. in this instance, he went against the grain when it comes to normie sensibilities, so he caught flak from both the center and left-leaning portion of his audience
In 5th grade, this kid called me the N word and I almost got into a fight with him. His only punishment was an apology letter and 2 days of suspension. They moved me into a separate class. The BS of it all was how the white teachers and principal kept telling me, “I’m sure he didn’t mean IT that way…” They wanted me to forgive him.. almost as if I was overreacting. Same thing happened when this white girl spread a rumor that the product build-up in my hair was dandruff. What you said about the expectations to tolerate so much casual racism/micro-aggressions rings so true. I almost questioned whether I was the unreasonable one. Moistcritical’s close minded perspective reminds me of those teachers, exonerating racist behavior.
So relatable, white teachers always acted like it was just "kids being kids" rather than racism being expressed by a child. Having it brushed off hurts, I hope you're away from people like that now💛
What exactly is wrong with dandruff? As someone who was also once a black child, I wouldn't give a damn if someone said that to me, not back then and certainly not now. Everyone has it to some extent and every race uses hair products. The teacher crap I get, because that is some real BS that happens all the time and I have personally experienced it myself.
@@kugetsu Context and the person's own feelings matter. The reason I find that dandruff commentary insulting is because it's attached to made-up, nonsense stereotypes about how POC are 'dirty' and whites™️ are clean. If you've been surrounded by white people calling you dirty or similar and they throw in an unjustified dandruff remark as well and slander your name in 'dirtiness/a lack of hygiene altogether: that is an entire image of you being sold to others. It's slander, as I said.
I still remember when “centrist” youtubers like philip defranco would frame you like you were some hater radlib and as a fan of both of you at the time it was so confusing how people would characterize you like that when you’ve always felt gentle with your criticisms of other channels and stuff imo (particularly with him) & i realized it was literally bc they saw u as a black trans woman & immediately made up this sjw caricature in their minds & decided thts what u were
Yeah Phil Defranco made an entire video about me because I made a joke responding to a man that was openly white nationalist. He took that joke seriously and presented it as “why does UA-cam support this radical racist”. It was such a great example of how I am completely unable to make edgy jokes, but we are expected to extend endless sympathy and understanding to people who openly use racial slurs. His video sent millions of people after me and I still occasionally get comments about it. Phil Defranco is such a little coward. I’ll never forget standing in an elevator with him after the event and his obvious discomfort lol. He’s a hack.
I think there was a phase of UA-cam creation, where people were trying to say they weren’t biased, but the reality is we all are. And frankly, I think more people should have a bias when we talk about racism.
@@KatBlaque my first exposure to your content was in a sargon video lmao. I remember that even back then I had to tell myself that "she probably has a lot of intensely bad opinions and sargon is only showing the reasonable ones because he's not trying to demonize her" Come to find out he's only showing the reasonable takes because those are the only takes he could find. And I was never very involved in political anything, youtube just sort of naturally guided me to feminist cringe comps and diet nazis. It still does on new accounts. Idk, it's just so wild to me that people can be misrepresented to the extent I've seen you and creators like you be and most of us don't even consider that, we just accept what we've been told and move on. I still don't know if youtube enables bigots because it pushes bigoted content or if it pushes bigoted content because there are so many bigots.
@@maxsync183sadly I think it's the latter. The algorithms are designed to push what makes them more money. The content that gets the most views hence most ad revenue is usually reactionary bigoted content that caters to people who think they're not bigots (the irony).
And of course let’s not miss the irony of a cis het white man saying the apology wasn’t necessary when none of the slurs that IDubbz was saying applies/impacts him in any meaningful way. It reminds of when other influencers have been exposed for being bigots and post the crappiest non apology only for the dedicated non impacted fans to be like “it’s okay we love you 😍”
I've had a cis het white man announce to me that because his friend got banned for shouting slurs at an event (and he defended his friend at the time), "justice has been done" and I shouldn't be angry anymore - at his friend, or him. The defensiveness and lack of perspective is astonishing
Drew Gooden had a similar situation. Said extremely racist derogatory "jokes" aimed against Asian people, and it was only like 2 years ago so he has no excuse. His apology kind of sucked and he was just like "Those jokes weren't funny I'm sorry" but his fans still love him and no one really got upset. Also the dude is 29, so he was 27(ish) when he made the jokes. More than old enough to understand.
@@atmmachine11 looked it up, and just wanted to let you know that the jokes were from 2016 and the apology was from 2021. Not trying to justify or anything, it still wasn’t okay in 2016 and it’s insane to find that out from a comment here now. Just wanted to update info so no one can use that against you (here or in the future if this is something you talk about again). Thank you for sharing this info.
Love that charlie is like “you dont need to apologize for running over people with your car on purpose, you didnt hurt anyone. And you shouldn’t have your license away, it was 2016. 37,000 people died in car accidents people were just doing that back then. It was okay to kill people with your car, it wasn’t murder it was “edgy”.” Edgy is such a big dog whistle
I literally couldn't finish this video cause my blood is boiling. He really sat down and said calling y'all slurs is funny so stop overreacting. He is completely fine with black people being dehumanized to a point that it offends him when another white man apologizes for doing so. I am so sick of lite fascism/racism that is called centrism.
All "moist" is saying is that he's also racist. If you are a grown adult and you don't think slurs harm people you either skipped every year of middle and high school social studies, or are willfully ignorant because you want to continue being racist.
He does live in Florida, and they are trying to ban teaching about racism at all to keep the old white men happy 🤷♂️ Can’t be surprised Florida white man is uneducated unfortunately
@@helena4440 as one of his regular viewers (and a trans man), most of his viewership is bigoted adult white men who actively hate on the LGBTQ community and poc, especially do so in his comment section whenever something queer or race related is brought up. Now, from what I've seen, Charlie doesn't share this mindset with the majority of his viewrbase, but I think is also scared to poke too much on the side of defending it because he could drastically lose a lot of his followers. He may not support transphobia or racism, and such, but he's not doing himself any favors by making videos like this.
Ian literally said "make fun of people for being autistic" when he was explaining he was not "anti-bullying" and that bullying is okay actually in a content cop video. One of the first examples for when bullying is acceptable was ofc autistic people.. I have had people in the very recent past try to argue with me about the r-slur saying that "autistic" is also a bad word so they should both be used. That kind of rhetoric caused allistic people to literally think the word "autistic" is an insult and that the r-slur is equivalent and not actually a slur💀
@@killdestroy69 Neither are an insult. Bigots only thinks they are insulting because they hate marginalized communities and see us as lesser and not worthy of respect. The insult is the bigotry, not the word.
charlie's problem is he intentionally misses the point. he is so clearly worried that he will one day be asked to apologize for the things he has said or done and it's like "look dude you have to be okay with that possibility. you aren't immune to the future holding you accountable."
@@Anonymous-bi5pvI don't think that's the point necessarily, just that he seems defensive as if even the possibility of being held accountable for any wrongs he might have done is fundamentally threatening to him
@@Anonymous-bi5pv I used to watch a lot of his really early stuff when he just used to play games and react/commentate to them, and I'm sure I remember him using a lot of the 'edgy' humour back then, using r-word and the like. I can't say for absolute certainty as I stopped watching the guy well over half a decade ago, but I'm fairly sure if someone trawled his old content they'd find uses of it. I'm not saying he needs to apologise or be cancelled for it, that's not up to me to really be involved in, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's aware of his 'edgy humour' in earlier content potentially being a source of contention later down the line, and he's not ready to face that or apologise for it, and instead is using this to try and desperately state you don't need to be held accountable for that stuff. The trouble with Charlie's take is... yes, that absolutely WAS the norm at the time, I remember as a kid using the r-word, sp*z, and other ableism shit, saying every bad thing was 'gay' and using it to insult others etc etc. But at the same time, many of us who did do that aren't trying to then clamour to say it was acceptable just because it was the language of the time. It WASNT acceptable. It was shitty behaviour and it hurt people. I personally tried to use that language to fit in, not to bully others, but i still acknowledge even if my intent was just for the laughs, it still had hurtful potential and normalised hurtful language. Charlie simply needs to accept that, but he won't.
You can’t say “Times were so different then” and simultaneously say that using those words was “shock humor”. Either that word was normal back then, or it was considered shocking and distasteful. Charlie isn’t even realizing how contradictory his own argument is
i unsubbed to him because his take was genuinely triggering to me. i’ve met countless people who think like that, and i’ve fought tooth and nail to get these people to understand my side of things as a poc. it never works and they never truly understand. it’s tiring
I feel you there. I had some acquaintances who casually had these views and conveyed them as such. I didn't like that and I didn't feel like giving them my energy so I just stopped talking to them. When confronted about this, they had the nerve to call me judgemental for my reasoning
Yeah that video was the nail in the coffin for me. He had expressed some bad or awkward takes in other videos that rubbed me the wrong way but I just always brushed them aside, but I feel like this video is different in that it shows you so clearly his perspective and way of thinking, and just how ignorant and enabling he is. I'm not interested in giving any more engagement to centrists who insist on either turning a blind eye to prejudice and harassment or trying to excuse it when it's coming from someone who's also in their privileged group (a white cishet male).
I am deeply fascinated by how determined Charlie is to completely miss the point. Of course he thought everyone lived in harmony, he wasn’t affected by what was going on at the time. It’s kind of infuriating that he even refused to fully get it in his follow-up. iDubbbz apology was so well-crafted and heartfelt and actually resonated with me and I‘m still baffled by the fact that Charlie‘s immediate urge was to make a "Weeeeell aaaaactuuuaaaally" video response.
The way that Charlie also insisted that no one was actually hurt by the videos directly contradicts a part of iDubbbz' apology video where he said he realized he was hurting people when a fan came up and said "I know you probably don't like trans people but can we get a picture together"
The fact that Charley keeps using the word "cringe" to describe edgy racism is so telling. There are tons of "cringe" things out there. Someone singing badly is cringe, someone who draws shitty webcomics is cringe, someone making a fool of themselves is cringe. He describes it that way because it doesn't affect him, and he goes out of his way to make it seem like it's the non slur stuff that Idubbz is mainly atoning for because he sees a condemnation of the cruelty the videos were based in as a condemnation of himself for enjoying them.
I’m 33, I’ve grown up with internet - there has never been any point in my life where saying the N-word wasn’t rightfully understood to be racist, and anyone claiming to be using it ironically or anything would certainly have their ass handed to them by anyone with the mental reasoning skills of the average 16 year old….
I'm even older than that, and there certainly have been times and spaces in the past 20 years where the people in them either felt that it was acceptable, or refrained from arguing due to fear of being shunned. But it's not like it was ever ok in recent decades in the majority culture whether online or not. I could almost see somebody conning themselves into believing it's actually kind of ok and the majority culture is wrong. I can't see somebody claiming to be unaware that any normal person not in that subculture would look at it with horror or disapproval.
Personally, even outside of racism, I find the whole notion of "you don't need to apologize, if you didn't mean to cause harm" wild. Actions have consequences, regardless of intent. Apologies are about acknowledging those consequences (regardless of intent), acknowledging the person you have harmed (regardless of intent), and about signalling regret and wanting to do better in the future. Apologies are not (should not be) about you, as in: defending or rationalizing your actions, or redeeming your character or whatever. They should be about doing right by the victim(s). If you think about other contexts, e.g. "I won't apologize for cheating on you, because 'I didn't mean to' and it kinda just happened" or "I won't apologize for running over and killing your pet, because 'I didn't mean to'" .. in pretty any context people would recognize denial of an apology on account of "I didn't mean to" as the callous rationalization and dismissal of the victim that it is. Yet 'somehow', 'some' people fail to see the callousness about "you don't need to apologize, if you 'didn't mean to' be racist". Goes to show how normalized casual racism is.
it's like if you accidentally injure someone, you'd still apologize even if you never meant to do it, even if it was completely unintentional on your part like, it's not saying you're evil to admit that you wronged someone, regardless if you meant to or not
It sounds wild because it is, and the people making that argument aren't usually sincere. They'd apologize if they smacked somebody with their elbow trying to pass them in a hallway; they wouldn't even think about it. They don't believe what they're saying, and more people need to call them out on that directly instead of trying to debate the argument itself.
Charlie feels very called out himself by Ian’s apology. So he has to excuse Ian’s actions so he doesn’t feel like he needs to apologize for his past, or his continued ignoring of the trans community.
The whole "it was just edginess" argument is really silly because the whole point of edginess literally is to offend people. They said the n-word on the internet explicitly because they knew people would be offended by it.
Just him having the arrogance to make this 'response' proves the point. He is so comfortable in his whiteness and superiority complex that he thinks this apology had anything to do with him. It's almost comical and ironic how he ran straight into the wall (the point) and still missed it.
We should probably collectively refuse to let a teachable moment about a former edgelord sorting their shit and being honest about doing sketchy stuff be hijacked by a fool, but at the same time, this does highlight how growth and getting over yourself can be contrasted with doubling down, and how one is probably healthier.
On a more serious note than my initial comment, I also thought both Charlie's initial response and his follow up "L Take" video where he "clarified" his statements i.e. doubled down, were BAD. I think you're totally right that he's blinded by his lack of intersectional world views or he might just be really sheltered. He's either missing (or worst case scenario, disregarding) idubbbz point about meeting a transgender fan and that being a kind of "Come to Jesus" moment for Ian. Along with that he either misses or ignores the context that Ian and his wife were getting hell rained down upon them by IANS OWN FAN BASE BECAUSE OF THE BEHAVIOR HE CULTIVATED. That's the primary reason (at least I saw) that Ian made the "I miss the old Idubbbz" video and disavowed his old, racist fans. This whole situation from Charlie and then his dropping of it after "L Take" video left such a bad taste in my mouth.
wtf why is he treating this like it was a teenager's screemo phase? it's not just about getting older and cringing at your younger self, it's growing as a human being and having a better understanding of the world and how your actions impact everyone. Litterally the only thing moist is disagreeing with is the part where Idubbbz has developped empathy for others and the capacity to show genuine vulnerability.
Charlie is so......... Simpleminded? I always thought his videos were so surface level and milquetoast to farm views but now I think he's just incapable of critically analyzing anything?
Yeah. Off topic-ish but even with when he's like reviewing food or something and he doesn't know what half of the stuff is. I try not to call names but the best way I could describe him is just kind of dumb 😅
in a lot of his videos he will say the exact same point over and over and over and it's like we get it move on to the next point or end your vid. his videos feel so long and stretched out with no substance
If idubbbz was never racist to begin with then it is the most logical thing to apologize! If it was all about dark, edgy humor, the fact that so many people were hurt by something he did without it being his intention, if he has even a little bit of empathy for those people, of course he'd apologize.
It's like getting war flashbacks when I think of youtube in 2016. What I found especially horrible and downright criminal is when literally every anti sjw was harassing Milo Stewart, and they were a teenager!
The content is even more ridiculous than I thought. I agree that the idea that this was a video that he decided to make is probably the most flabbergasting thing to think about. The entire point of iDubbz video is him realizing that the intention was irrelevant for him because the impact was almost worse. iDubbz fostered a hostile environment for minorities on the internet by giving people an excuse to use slurs. It's almost like Charlie made this video because he wants to attract that audience that iDubbz is casting away.
That's what i thought too!! On the one hand you have idubbz saying bigots are not welcome in his audience anymore, then you have Charlie basically being like 'don't worry you're welcome here! come to to me instead!'. It's pretty fcked and I'm seriously thinking of unsubscribing tbh.
They want us to sit around guessing if people going around using racial slurs as a joke are "actually racist", heres the thing, doesn't really matter. The effect is still the same, your still hurting groups of people have to constantly deal with racism in their day to day life. You're still adding to that experience of hearing people use words that are dehumanising. Honestly, I'm so glad I grew up in a predominately black country.
no seriously because I thought the general consensus was if you’re using slurs and know the meaning …then you’re either racists or just a shitty person it’s not rocket science
I can't believe that Charlie is looking at what seems to be a genuine apology and show of understanding from Idubbz, and is like "nah bro, this isn't right".
I think Kat is onto something with the idea that he is identifying with who Idubbz used to be, and therefore feels defensive/judged because he's changing. Honestly if you did identify with who Idubbz presented to the world back then, you should judge yourself. I knew it wasn't okay as a white teenager in the early 2010's, living on the other side of the world.
Black bodies were literally used as collateral for several banks back then (that are still in business to this day). We have never been seen as human since we stepped off the boat--and that was intentional. If Black people were "actually human," that would make the people treating them terribly look like monsters! But since they labeled us adjacent to animals, their poor treatment was acceptable. 🙃
@@brie1026 That made me think of the horrible case of Anderson McCrew, a Black homeless man who died in the early 1900s and was mummified and turned into an attraction for a traveling carnival then became a "town mascot" used by frat boys for pranks before he was finally buried. 😓
Cis white guy says apology for ppl who are the complete opposite of him wasn’t necessary because he didn’t find them offensive. I hate to state it so bluntly but that’s exactly what just happened. How is the exact person that the apology wasn’t intended for gonna think he’s the right person to decide if said apology is needed? It can’t get any more illogical and unreasonable than that
I was following you long before 2016 but that was the era your facebook lives were a lifeline for me. It's so exhausting to hear the argument "things were different back then" like... Yeah, the proliferation of edgelords was more widely accepted back then, sure, BUT there was still a lot of criticism for that approach and view at that time. It's so weird to hear people who have grown and learned and changed in the direction of being less racist or bigoted, or at least more aware of the forces of bigotry, claim that the entire world changed with them, that no one was aware before them, that no one was critical of that stance before them.
Exactly! Especially since *they* were the ones calling people "snowflakes" or SJWs. To go from actively mocking a group of people critiquing you to ignoring that that criticism existed.... smh.
In 2016 people were already calling out people for doing this stuff in early 2010s and earlier UA-cam. It literally sounds like 2018 and people are taking about early white youtubers again. It was bullshit when people were excusing past behavior as edgy then, and it's even more bullshit now.
"Things were different back then" ALWAYS flattens the past to a singular, "innocently offensive" perspective: never deliberate, never shown with any oppositional pushback from the same era. Thomas Jefferson had detractors *within his lifetime* calling him out for his "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" slave-owning hypocrisy. For HP Lovecraft, there's letters & correspondence *with him* found criticizing his racism, even within the literary circles he frequented. The difference is in what voices are elevated & respected while others are silenced, not what voices never existed at all :/
This dude is 100% telling on himself because if his favourite edgelords are growing up and realizing how shitty they were back then and he hasn't reached that point himself, he has to take a closer look in the mirror and he doesn't want to.
It seems like idubbz really struck a chord in him because this is a very overly-sensitive reaction. I left a similar comment on the original idubbz reaction, but someone else looking inward to address internalized racism and going public about that process forces other white people to do the same thing. idubbz is one of his peers. He's probably thinking, If HE'S apologizing for these things, and I thought they were funny back in the day, am I a bad person? And he's getting defensive over his inner guilt. Why process your guilt and move on when you can make excuses instead? Especially with his focus on intent. We've all had a situation where our words and our intentions didn't match up. If you're someone who's not personally impacted by racial slurs, if you think they're not a big deal or laugh at them, and then someone who IS impacted speaks up and says um...don't say that? All of a sudden you have to confront your internalized anti blackness and how even if you don't think you HATE black people, you're indifferent to black suffering. I think your focus on dehumanization was right on the mark. It's very ironic when he talks about being trapped in echo chambers and not growing because like...look at yourself man. Also thank you for pointing out once again how people back in the day KNEW what idubbz was doing was bad. He was a staple of drama content all over the platform and so many other creators looked the other way and used his content (especially his tana video) as part of their own commentary without addressing his own use of slurs.
Also, you're so right about 2016 internet culture. I've been on the internet almost my entire life; 2014-2017 or thereabouts were insanely brutal for misogyny and racism. Even just being a woman online made people hostile to you if you weren't devoting your efforts to being a "pick me". The emergence, or, rising popularity of "left tube" (I hate that phrase lmao) creators like yourself, Lindsay Ellis, Hbomberguy etc. during that time as almost a counter movement literally made me feel so fucking SANE when I felt like I was losing my mind just existing online. I can't even imagine how exhausting it was to make those videos in that time - but it was and is SO appreciated x
I dont understand the position of "edgy racism was accepted back then" no it wasnt. I was in high school back then and it very much wasnt ok then either.
I feel like it's very telling that apparently the thing that both this guy and the guy who made the video on Mr. Beast's Trans friend is "how it will impact their audience retention". One starts to wonder if it's a signal to the Racists and transphobes in the audience who feel called out to say " oh hey , this creator dosn't approve of you, but I don't care about it, you are safe here"
You know he's bsing though because 2016 is when trump got elected. And EVERYONE noticed racist being more bold. Hell yt people voted for it! So I think he is being very transparent. I think who he really is slipped through
Charlie got so defensive, and basically told on himself. Now we all know he probably says the same slurs in his personal life, and enjoys it. He just doesn’t like having to look in the mirror and ask “am i racist?” So instead, he attacks another white man who does feel remorse.
To say Charlie is a little sheltered is putting it extremely lightly lol. He clearly doesn’t get it or doesn’t want to get it since he doesn’t interact with POC or has any intention of interacting with people that don’t share the same skin color and values.
People like this genuinely piss me off because I literally keep opinions to myself in fear cishets will jump down my throat for just having a different world view. I grew up watching you and Riley J Dennis getting shat on for not being total pick mes like Blaire White, so the whole "it's just edgy bro" pisses me off. We got bullied if we had an opinion on said edginess, now we have to hear how it was normal? Yes, it was normalized, but that's because nay sayers would be gaslit and screamed at.
thanks for mentioning that slurs are used mainly to dehumanize, i know it should be fucking obvious but it seems like it often goes forgotten and i have to remind people... 😐 I've had to explain history to my dad because he still thought it was okay to say the r slur, satan help me...
Charlie really was in another 2016. There were “anti SJWs” because there were and are people that think the type of content that uses “edgy” humor at the expense of marginalized groups is wrong. Do they not want to admit the SJWs were right all along? ( I sent you the ironic SJW mug and notebook back then.) I did see the content cop videos, begrudgingly in order to keep up with online culture. Ian did make some good points and the slurs and some of the attitude was a huge issue for me and others back then. I even left comments saying this in the most polite way possible and got a bunch of SJW and snowflake comments as replies. I do not know why the memory of 2016 is so distorted for so many people. It was said that it was wrong. It was explained by plenty of people over and over again. Seems we were dismissed so easily it has been erased from memory. PS, Pewds is definitely at least a N*zi sympathizer, his Honey sponsorship donation to the anti defamation league being withdrawn and his silence while that org was harassed online was confirmation for me.
We need to stop coddling racists and make them uncomfortable and afraid. Call people out for what they are. It’s so frustrating how Black people can’t even say that something is racist when it absolutely is without a white person inserting themselves into the conversation and saying how it’s not racist.
I truly despise the way Charlie shits on an apology that wasn’t even for him. Considering Charlie was in his twenties at the peak of IDubbz on UA-cam. He really does not understand what it was like for kids in middle school consuming this content. Idubbz effect on internet culture really created a toxic space that prevails to this day.Charlie is probably projecting his own biases in his video.
I was one of those kids and I literally started thinking that saying the n-word would save the future. Directly from Ian's content. I can't believe ppl are agreeing with Charlie here.
Racism isn’t cringe. Racism hurts people. When I experience racism, I don’t cringe, I feel dehumanized, deeply saddened, and hurt. Racism to shock people who are not affected by racism still hurts people affected by racism.
thank you, perfect comment
!
Racism will always exist nobody can change that
Black crime does a lot more damage yet you Blacks glorify that
Very well said.
idubbbz posted a tweet, and while it doesn't mention Charlie by name, I know I'm not alone in feeling that it is directed towards him and people who share his sentiments. It said, "I welcome opinions about my apology from people and communities whom the apologies were directed at. - that is where my care starts and ends"
I honestly kinda loved this response lol never liked Ian, but I felt he really *gets it* and that’s terribly rare. Charlie trying to keep another white creator from gaining understanding and apologizing to those he hurt feels like I live in a damn dystopia
@@moonchild977 i have no interest in idubbbz or his content, but his apology did make me change the way i view him - from going "ew, that guy" every time i saw his name pop up, to now just going "whatever". he showed a level of self-awareness that is so incredibly uncommon for youtube apologies, i was surprised he even addressed how pathetic it was to develop empathy as a grown ass man. when i went to watch his apology i was ready to silently judge but it was refreshing to see someone who apologized because they meant it (or at least seemed to), and also understood why what he did was wrong and the negative impact it had. it's the bare minimum but sadly, it's very rare to see.
(sorry lol i just wrote a whole ass paragraph just adding to "i felt he really gets it")
That’s really dope actually!
iDubbz: "I don't care if my intention wasn't to be an ass. I ended up causing problems and that's why I apologize."
Critical: "Well. He didn't mean to be bad so he shouldn't apologize."
My guy. You literally didn't get the point
Im not convinced moist is playing with a full deck of cards...
@@enaidealukal4105 He definitely isn't. he might or might not be actually racist. However, he is one of those "centrist dudebros" so he needs to keep all things on an even center position. Thus, he can't have strong opinions politically cause he'll lose his public.
At the end of the day, he does profit from the racists who watched iDubbz cause he validated their shit and, in order to not lose them, he has to do these mental gymnastics to maintain ALL SIDES on his audience...
@@enaidealukal4105 Or two functioning ears...
@@Beto_Serrano Or you know, he could not make a video on it period lmao, thus he won't lose his precious lil fanboys and also won't make an ass of himself
@@cavemancult1999 While I'm inclined to agree with you, his being silent would also definitely get noticed in its own way. It's the kind of topic he would absolutely make a video about, and Idubbbz is such a huge and influential creator (for better or for worse, and almost definitely for worse) that not talking about this giant apology would be kind of weird.
I knew multiple white teenagers who would use every slur Idubbz did and parroted his reasoning. But like. The whole thrill of saying a slur is that it’s taboo, it’s forbidden. They knew exactly what they were doing. Not cute.
That's a big part of the problem, it isn't "taboo", it's fucking dehumanizing to the affected group. Slurs are genuinely connected to horrors in someone's community. These people have no empathy or consideration.
@@mewmew6158
Exactly. Issue is, it feels "Just taboo" to THEM. To the white kids saying that shit. They've never experienced racism, so they can't take it seriously. It's so bullshit. Learn empathy.
I didn’t use those slurs but I was definitely one of those white kids saying ‘it’s either all ok or none of it is’, my mind was a sponge and that sponge was laced with rat poison
@@lily4813dsew.
@@wompwompcryabttit correct
The way Critical kept saying that iDubbz didn't cause a genocide or ruin anyone's lives... Like, is that the bar??? If you do anything less than cause a literal genocide, then anything you say or do is beyond reproach? Nothing besides actual murder warrants an apology? What a hot take.
"He was saying racist slurs, but he didn't commit genocide, duh"
Checkmate
"I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty"
@@Kay-im6htliterally 😭 “he wasn’t murdering puppies!”
Yep. Like the compassion about killing animals like........why even make that comparison
@@gargles5270 I KNOW RIGHT
Also I think Charlie is just proving why white supremacy is so dangerous he feels the need to defend a white man because he feels as if idubbz has been attacked even though this is idubbz decision to apologize
His white supremacy is so loud he couldn't imagine there were Blk ppl who exist because why would he say NO ONE was hurt by idubbz? NO ONE = Blk ppl.
It infantilizes white people and especially white men. However the black children who had to hear the N word from peers have to have adult levels of maturity and emotional regulation or else they are labelled “thugs”
perfectly put
fragility at its peak
He’s a UA-camr a Redittor and on top of all that he uses twitter what do you honestly expect
As someone who was in high school at the peak of iDubbbz’ success, I can confidently say Charlie is completely wrong about the real world impact of iDubbbz’ content. So many people my age quite literally watched kids tranform to mimic his humor and rhetoric, and also saw how those kids’ behavior impacted their classmates who belong to marginalized groups. This wasn’t just “internet culture”- it became a part of everyday real world interactions all over the country, maybe even the world. Charlie is so painfully out of touch here, thank you for making this
I grew up in a pretty small town where not many kids had unrestricted internet access. But among those that did, you knew who the iDubbz fans were
I live in France and some of my classmates who could barely speak fluently English would start using the n word 24/7 because he was one of the creators pushed by the algorithm at the time to people who watched videos in English
This! I am currently in high school and would like to confirm that the kids who watched him in middle school still mimic him to some degree. A lot of the boys in my grade are still attached to that "edgy" sense of humor and love making everyone uncomfortable with racism, homophobia, transphobia, animal cruelty/abuse, etc.
I was in middle school when he was at his peak. Hell, I used to watch his stuff. Thankfully I never said or used slurs myself, never felt the desire to, but it still rubbed off on me and made me complacent when other kids, especially white boys, repeated his "jokes."
I can't say exactly how it affected all of the marginalized kids at my school. But I can say that one year we lost one of them to suicide. He was gay and black, and maybe 14 years old. I don't know if it was even affected by any of this, I'm certainly not saying it is or blaming anyone, but it feels worth mentioning.
Either Charlie is completely and totally ignorant, or he can't handle the guilt that comes with growth.
(TW: Mention of S*xual Harassment)
Uhg. I was probably in elementary or middle school during the height of cringe culture/“edgy” behavior, and I remember being AFRAID of boys who would consume that content and then mimic it. Some of these boys made r*pe threats towards me and otherwise harassed me and other girls. We had an autistic boy in one of my classes and kids would purposely agitate him and belittle his feelings. I reported it and one of the bullies tried to get his friends to beat me up.
This completely turned me off to Charlie, can't lie. There is something so frustrating and tired about straight White guys that have never had to face discrimination telling minorities to suck it up because they're just being edgy or "They're just words, don't give them power" while simultaneously getting extremely butthurt at "words" like racist, bully, incel, etc. I still avoid stuff like online gaming and posting on social media because I had so many experiences of it just devolving into being called racial and homophobic slurs constantly. I still remember I posted a video about winning a dance competition and being excited because it aired on TV only for the first 2 comments to be people calling me homophobic slurs so I took it down. It was awful and still is awful just in general when minorities have to deal with hate even day to day in real life. Yet straight White guys like Charlie always come to their defense like "I don't like that he's basically calling his old fans bullies and racists" when he and a lot of his old fans were bullies and racists, that's what they did to real people who kept telling them to stop and they told them to "toughen up" while they cry at the insinuation that they're racist when they literally went around calling people the N word for fun.
I never really liked him, I see people sharing some of his progressive leftist opinions lately, and yeah its good that he has those, but this reaction just confirms my gut feeling that hes still a reactionary white lib.
I watched Moist a lot. But I feel the exact same way. After this whole video thing, it's just not for me anymore..
I'm sorry that those people treated you and others that way. No one deserves that. Congratulations on the win and for making it on tv! I'm so proud of you!
Remember that White gay men are often racist.
Just usual everyday drama, will continue watching him as I did before, but your situation is sad, hang in there.
Feels like serious projection on Moist's part. He wants to justify the videos because he enjoyed them back in the day, and instead of unpacking why he enjoyed those videos and coming to an understanding of how his worldview has been affected by antiblackness, he goes on the defensive and tries to explain to himself and the audience why Ian's use of slurs wasn't actually racist. There are a lot of us who watched and enjoyed those videos when we were younger; a big part of living an anti racist lifestyle is learning how to recognize the racist sentiments that you yourself have and analyzing how they've influenced your behaviors, videos you used to like, etc. Hope he gains some self awareness soon.
Absolutely the feeling I got watching it. "If these videos were racist and I liked them, that would make me racist."
This was a super in-depth response, and I completely agree. Charlie sees Ian’s admission of guilt as a “reason” for Charlie to actually question whether or not his (Charlie’s) channel/interest in iDubbbz’ channel contributed to the problem.
Charlie doesn’t like that and it makes him personally uncomfortable about his subconscious thoughts and feelings, so he hard deflects over an apology that was never meant for Charlie to begin with. I don’t think he’s doing it intentionally per say, but I do think that he’s intentionally avoiding unpacking all of that stuff.
@@thecorbohole3637 he's so close!
Yeah, I feel like he's close to getting it.
@@parker1443 Yours and OPs response all the way 100%
I was also so confused by some of his arguments about stuff that Idubbz didnt even mention in the video.
First I thought it was Charlie just not understanding Idubbz points but no Charlie was making up stuff to feel better about himself.
Kinda selfcentred all around, I hope he learns from this experience.
Racism he can tolerate but he draws the line at acting cringe
There's nothing worst for Charlie's specific breed of Internet users than being cringe. To them, being cringe (whatever it means) is the ultimate disgrace, maybe even, the greatest of all the sins that one can commit.
kinda cringe imo ngl
Lol
LOL
This😭
Reminds me of the meme “I can excuse racism” “you can excuse racism 🤨”
I love it how people like charlie dont say racists, they just say "weirdos" because if we call them weirdos then we dont have to deal with the fact that racism isn't weird in our society
I mean in a way, it is weird like we’re taught that racism is no good and we see people nowadays being racist despite the fact that everyone knows that’s beyond being frowned upon because it’s unacceptable. But yeah, I do think Charlie and even other people like him should just say it as it is.
The way he said it was so weird as well like🤡 "yeah every bag has a bad apple... a silly goober that doesn't see the joke..🤡." on a channel...That used to have it as a catchphrase... And harass ppl with it... like brother-
THAT PARTTTT
Isn't that why they are weirdos though? Because they are racist?
@@figlet6427 What channel harassed ppl with it?
The "it was fine back then" argument falls apart when you point out that the shock factor WAS the goal. If the things being said are fine to say, why is it shocking that you're saying them? They're fine to admit that they were doing it intentionally because I think that feels more justifiable. "oh no, I didn't say slurs because I'm racist, I said slurs because it was controversial and shocking. But also they were fine to say at the time."
Right...
It's observable in real time how "the point at which it was okay to be a bigoted asshole" gets pushed further and further forward. The existence of marginalized folks is perpetually treated as super recent.
@@Maggotbone having heard "it was a different time" many times in the 2010s, it's weird to hear it said about the 2010s.
Yeah...the whole "it was a different time" argument... In the 2010s? I mean, it kinda was, in the sense there were a few years there when a bunch of teenage boys realized they could get away with acting like this on the internet and no one could stop them. They lived in a bubble, and other teenage boys entered the bubble. Then when the bubble burst, and people outside in the real world told them NO, they're getting all bothered by it.
I think this is partly where the whole freakout about "wokeism" and "cancel culture" comes from. They want to say the outrage over their behavior is some new thing, some "woke mind virus" or whatever. Well, as someone old enough to remember as far back as the 70s, I assure you this has NEVER been ok. Like if they want to go back to a time when their casual racism and misogyny was ok, they'd have to back to AT LEAST the 50s. And even then they'd get significant pushback. "It was a different time, man." When? 1912?
Agreed, that is the weakest argument ever and just displays how ignorant the person is. You know what was also "fine" a few years ago? Segregation. You know what was fine as well? Slavery.
I wonder what he has to say about that.
The way he talks about not being racist makes it seen like it's just not cool anymore. Like caring about black people is just what's hip in the moment
I think that’s because that’s how they feel about it. It’s like people who complain about wokeness as if no one has been advocating for all of those things for a very long time. The difference is only that they can no longer ignore it
They want to make the discussion "Edgy versus Cringe" when really it's just, "Is this racist?" (Hint: If you are using slurs, it's racist.) They want to be able to say, "Obviously we aren't racist. I mean, no one *I* know is racist and we all used slurs, so it must just be cringe now." The lack of self awareness and awareness period is flabbergasting to me.
Yea but like why should we care though? It’s not like they’re the largest minority in America or anything 👀
That era was all about edgy jokes of all kinds. Now its all about woke vs anti-woke. It was not only about racism
@@Jonqenme when i have no braincells
I wish Charlie realized how much edgy humor really, really, really hurt disabled people. I grew up autistic at a school for disabled people and it was that humor that pitted kids with autism, intellectual disabilities, and physical disabilities against kids with adhd, "aspergers" and dyslexia. It was not ian specifically, but him and his whole culture that made people fucking hate autistic people. It's so hard to explain unless you were autistic. And I hate when higher function autistic people will talk over us and say edgy humor didn't hurt them when it hurt me. Any autistic kid that wasn't male or white or especially cisgender were bullied MERCILESSLY. The people that did not see you as human used Ian's same talking points: the idea that it's okay to bully autistic people as long are aren't a hypocrite. There is no negotiating with people that see you as animals and it was edgy UA-cam that made people feel justified in their hate towards disabled people.
"high" functioning(?) here, yeah cishet white autistic boys who were able to mask well loved shitting on the rest of us, it sucked.
The ableism, homophobia, and racism were so harmful. ESPECIALLY to those of us that are more than one of those things. I was undiagnosed with autism, yet I was still black and weird so I got a bit of everything🙄 Guess who those little shits watched? Pewdiepie and Ian.
And it still baffles me that none neurodivergent people are still pushing to use "retard", especially against disabled people. Hell, there are even autistic people who'd never been affected by "retard" and siding with the use of it against neurodivergent people. Like even lefties are refusing to let it go.
disabled people can go to h-e double hockey sticks
Literally yes. Like, as a black autistic person, being a fan of idubbz back in the day was basically an online signifier that said “You are not welcome in this space”. And Charlie thinks he doesn’t have to apologize for becoming a symbol for ableist racists? C’mon.
a white man telling another white man "don't apologize for bullying or racism but please do apologize for being cringe" is a perfect depiction of online cringe culture in the last 10 years tbh
Yes
Yeah I feel like they rly dont care about how harmful people are as long as they portray some masculine, cool, chill guy who isn't "cringe."
These white edgelords are not capable of understanding. They are programmed not to.
Yeah pretty much
Just because you use slur words it does'nt mean your racist.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Charlie's comment section criticizing him for being a white man dismissing an apology that was not really meant for him. We really need to normalize not having an opinion on things that have nothing to do with us.
The problem is his content thrives on him inserting himself as a white cishet man.
He wants to be a centrist who pleases everyone while pretending he's just "making a middle ground" not recognizing how that "middle ground" just causes more harm, especially to marginalized communities. It's why I hate videos that specifically do that.
When there was "drama" with Mr. Beast's friend Chris, he tries to avoid using pronouns for them and defended Mr. Beasts Poverty porn content. He wants to try and keep all sides of his audience while not revealing what he "truly" thinks about something. Lots of centrist ideas in my personal opinion are very white centered and try and insert non marginalized communities into topics they have no business being in because they feel entitled to have a say in everything. Even if what they have to say is harmful. With this he wanted to try and say "racism and bigotry is bad(he instead used language like " cringe" and "weirdos")" while also saying "you don't need to apologize for racism and bigotry(he displays that by claiming there was no need for the apology as HE didn't see any impact idubbz content caused that was harmful)" teetering between the 2 to overall try and say: "just don't apologize bro, just don't address it at all. Be like me and keep all the people who watch you around even if they are from a time you personally find to be harmful"
@@rainbowdino9310hit the nail right on the head. centrists are just thinly veiled right wingers
I SO agree with this. especially the last part, like sometimes it's ok to not have an opinion or hot take about a topic, sometimes it's none of your business and some people online should really learn this
@@rainbowdino9310you summed it up together so well
He's a centrist who doesn't understand that when the center is between the true center and the right, that being a centrist makes you a soft right winger.
Man i remember when i used to experience racism, and homophobia, in middle school just to go home and one of the biggest people on the internet at the time justifed it. It really made me and my problems feel so small. So when Idubbz apologized it lifted a weight off my shoulder. Then Charlie uploaded his response and it just brought me back to middle school for a moment.
❤️
Don't worry bro, we've all (as in us black or mixed people) experienced that horrific shit but just know that you are still kicking and that's all that matters, you're a great guy and I wish you well in life
Right there with you!
The entire backlash to Ian has really illuminated that UA-cam hasn't actually changed. The racists are just a little quieter now. Ian's apology is sincere, it's mature and it's reflective. It doesn't matter what his intent was and he realises that and he wants to try to undo some of the harm he's caused to people. The fact anyone would feel the need to criticise him over this is so depressing.
its crazy how most of us who were in school during the time his videos were popular experienced similar things. i am so sorry for anyone who had to deal with that. at the time it felt as if there was no hope in speaking out about it because people would ridicule you for criticizing the use of slurs.
The way he acts like a youtuber having to apologize is like the absolute worst punishment possible. Like i can excuse racism, but i draw the line at apologies
Is that a... is that a Community reference I see
I love how they call the n-word and slurs just cringe. It's like the implication is just... it's not funny anymore. Not even that it's bad to say slurs, it just isn't funny lol
Yea- slurs aren’t funny. 💀💀💀
I got that too! Like, "Yeah. Looking back it's not that clever to just shout the n-word willy-nilly, but hey! Don't beat yourself up."
LOL exactly, the way he was like "in your 30s, you just don't find slurs funny anymore" that really took me out hahaha. it's not that you learn that slurs are racist and stop saying them, you just outgrow "cringe, edgy humor" and that's why you stop! really says a lot about how much Charlie himself has grown as a person over the last decade lmao
@lilamasand5425 Came here to point out that exact quote, I thought it was very strange. It really does seem like he views that "humor" as just juvenile and immature and doesn't see the genuine harm it caused to the people that culture targeted.
I think his defense of idubbz here is probably a lot about defending himself for enjoying that content at one point. He wasn't engaging with casual racism excused as jokes that created a culture where people could be racist/homophobic/sexist under the guise of joking or being edgy. He didn't exist in a culture where someone saying it's not funny it's hurtful would get them dogpiled by actual slurs and -ism/-phobia. He was just young, edgy, and cringe and that culture was just a bit of fun. I think idubbz has realized the harm and Charlie has yet to
@@Savannah- 100% agree with all of that!! spot on
iDubbz: Apologizes for creating an environment hostile to BIPOC.
Charlie, a White Man: Well personally I don't feel offended.
It’s absolutely insane 😂
It's not a sign of a strong brain, is it....
@@rabbitqueen7075 It's the whyte narcissism for me
It's also crazy to me when white people feel that they have the right to make the call about whether someone is racist or not. That has never and will never be my place. If a poc says that someone or something is racist and has hurt them, I will always believe them. How is that even up for debate? People love to talk but never listen
@gilfhound69 Because Indigenous people and other People of Colour exist too, and are also harmed by racism?
Or do you think that someone who would embrace an environment hostile to Black people would be openly accepting of other POCs?
Try pulling your head out of your ass.
I also really love that idubbz hasn’t made his apology the problem of black (also queer, etc) creators. He hasn’t tried to force it on people. He’s said it, he’s expressed how he’s going to try to be better in the short and the long term, and then he’s just shut up to get on with it.
Love that. He’s not trying to do a 9 part series on him being less racist. He’s just being quiet I appreciate that.
I've seen public apologies get rejected as insincere, but this is the only time I've seen an apology get criticized for going too far. Leave it to white centrists.
Trueee
Hahaha. So true! It's because he's basically calling them out indirectly. They all know that what they did was shitty but they can't admit it to themselves.
@@IshtarNike there it is!
I made the likes 1k woho
Aka white racists.
Charlie sure is betraying the fact that he assumes every perspective is a white one by default.
I think it's even worse than that. He assumes the only legitimate perspective is a white one because people like him (those white people) view themselves as being "objective" when it comes to the matters of race and racism. They think they have a neutral and balanced perspective. They see POC as being "biased" and over-sensitive.
True. Whiteness has always been centered in his content. Centrism relies on the white perspective.
it’s even “funnier” when you realize his last name is White.
Charlie has always appealed to the “white mindset” it’s not his fault but he still did it 🤡🤡
Boohoo
I hate how much Charlie exaggerates in this video to minimize the severity of the issue.
“It’s not like he was killing puppies!” He was still being bigoted, which is *bad.*
“Ian doesn’t deserve to be publicly flogged with tomatoes thrown at him for the rest of his life.” Obviously, no one’s doing that. No one even asked him for this apology video, he did it of his own volition. He wasn’t harassed into doing it, and he’s not being publicly shamed. Harassment/dogpiling is definitely a real issue on the internet, but this isn’t an instance of that.
I hate this rhetorical device. It’s so annoying and disingenuous. Charlie has to overexaggerate because he can’t just outright admit that being bigoted and saying slurs is WRONG, regardless of intent. It’s honestly pathetic to watch him dance around such an obvious fact.
ian: *says something reasonable
charlie: *pretends ian said something ridiculous
charlie: he's being ridiculous!
But idubbbz IS being publicly shamed and has been for a long while. By right leaning red pillers that is...
💯Well articulated
This is one reason I never like Charlie to begin with it’s not even just with this apology he just talks this in general. This reaction the the apology is just the worst version of it
I said it on D’angelo’s tweets and I’ll say it here, Charlie should have spent that time making those two videos deleting whatever 10 year old racist tweets he has sitting in the cut. Because that response was giving very much projection
not on twitter, what did D’Angelo say
I’m black and it’s funny how he avoids saying racism/racist he didn’t even mention homophobia or transphobia at all cause he never does. If Charlie doesn’t want to speak on LGBTQ problems he definitely shouldn’t about black ones either because he was definitely a fan and felt attacked by Idubbz content.
It's quite rich how someone an apology wasn't meant for, is shouting and saying "you shouldn't have to apologize". It's almost as if he's projecting his guilt on idubbz taking accountability
Exactly! Moist needs to deal with his insecurity. It's like he watched the apology, and he thought, "Wait. Did I do a racism by liking those videos? Noooooooo!!"
My thoughts exactly.
THIIIIIIIIIIIIS BITCH!!!!
That was my immediate thought when I watched D'Angelo Wallace's video on this topic!! Moist keeps say "I don't think it was his _intention_ ...", "That wasn't his _intention_ ..." , "The _intention_ wasn't...." Like, bitch! The saying "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" exists for a reason!!! "Intention" really _doesn't_ matter when you throw out slurs as casually as you breathe air! "Intention" doesn't matter when you give racists an excuse to _be racist_ by claiming shit like "It's all slurs or no slurs," "We give these slurs their power," "Slurs are just words that have no meaning"-- especially when you are not directly harmed by the use of those slurs to dehumanize you and the world around you screams at you while they strip away your rights and make it impossible to exist, because these whackjobs want to see you assimilated or dead because they're so deeply offended by you being alive.
that was exactly my thought especially because he keeps coming back to saying that Ian was "never a bad person" and "never really hurt anyone". it REALLY sounds like he feels really guilty, like a bad person, for hurting people with his actions or words.
He sounds like he hasn’t met someone who would be affected by the racist remarks in idubbbz old content
Times really were NOT that different in 2016. I remember, I was here! I feel like people are lying to my face when they say this wasn't a big deal. Saying the N-Word has been very controversial for decades!
Exactly lmao. We can even go as far back to the 80s and the use of teaching kids about the Adventure's of Huckleberry Finn book. One big reason it was considered so controversial was because of the use of the N-word by the white characters. Even back when the book was first published many critics said the language used in the novel was too vulgar. The n-word has been controversial for a LONG time. It's weird hearing people say that 2016 was a different time like what
I think the people saying it was a different time mean specifically on the internet. People back then still felt there to be a disconnect between real life and being online. I remember arguing with one of my teachers about how online harassment was real. They werent old either max 30 years old. Now people are seeing consequences for their actions online people are finally starting to realise you should be conducting yourself online as you do offline.
@@jakob8646 I was online at the time. It was controversial then. They just harrassed POC so bad to keep quiet about it and not complain, labeling them as entitled snowflakes if they didn't.
@@angelacanedit yeah it was not okay even then. But the point im trying to make is people literally didnt believe online harassment was real. “Just turn off the screen”. I think now people realise the very real consequences that online harassment has, people see things differently..
Right??? It feels like they are talking about 2008 and i keep having to remind myself that we’re talking about 2016.
Centrist are such interesting people. The way they do mental gymnastics to justify the way they think is always fascinating to see, rarely do they ever do enough research or consult with people who are effected by bigotry. Yet, they’ll stand high on their “moral” high ground to feel superior to both marginalized and bigoted people.
i used to watch a centrist and i used to find his takes insightful and challenging, the more that time has progressed i've found him more annoying and patronizing. the way he treats protest is shit, the way he dodges around proper discussions by vaguely alluding to broad ideas like "we all need to talk to each other more!" the man clearly has had a great life and doesn't have much first hand experience with systematic struggle. The way he just brushes away people's struggles and complaints away is so infuriating.
Great comment. They are often quite smug about how being "above it all" makes them more intellectual or more level headed. When in reality it is a weak stance of fence sitting that allows the status quo and bigotry to persist.
I don't really define my politics but I've been told I'm a centralist and if this is what that is, hell no I am not.
It is literally the same with the right and left as well, but since you ARE part of that, you don't see it. I think you clearly misunderstand what a centrist actually is, by a large margin. Moist is not a centrist. It's not about "being in the middle and not taking sides", it's about taking the good ideas from both sides and not being ignorant about the bad ones like said sides both dominantly are. I will call out the right when they're being racist, not caring about marginalized people, or being hypocritical, and I will do the same to the left when they talk down to white people for being white, make REALLY bad financial decisions in government (as they often do), and are just being massive hypocrites (although the first point is already hypocritical). There HAS to be a middle ground because both sides are absolutely batshit crazy. To the left and right, if you're not far left or far right, you're absolute scum. That fact that morons still buy into this "2-Party system" from hundreds of years ago is further proof of that.
Fact of the matter is, both the left and the right have a VERY distinct "If you're not against us" mentality, which is what stupid people do. It's also incredibly stupid to lump all centrists together, because that makes absolutely no sense since every single one has vastly different opinions and viewpoints. I am extremely for human rights (and am gay and black myself), but I'm not in a hivemind that can't see the terrible stuff the left (and those associated) do sometimes. While I dislike the right more for the same reasons, the left is not immune to their ignorant mob mentality they shove down peoples' throats. I consider myself more to the left, but the left doesn't give a damn because I haven't pledged my allegiance and my first born child.
Charlie may (or may not )be moderate in his views, but that doesn't mean he won't make some of the stupid decisions that the right or left does.
@@llynxfyremusic Sounds like centralism is just "I have right-wing views but think that it'll keep me afloat or give me more fans as a content creator to be mysterious and ambiguous" under a trenchcoat
You hit the nail on the head with the Shane Dawson point. His lap dance video with a 12 year old girl was horrifying, and hearing him say that there was a time that being a grown man and getting lap dance performances from children was ok in 2012 or whatever was SO bizarre... It's like - were we on the same planet earth??? Coz I remember lap dances with minors still being a crime back then. And the racism - I knew in 2016 that saying the N word was wrong. I commented on Iddubzs video that I didn't agree with his use of the slur. It was not some national secret lmao. Some of these white people seriously live on a different planet earth.
i think it’s strange he won’t acknowledge racists are that, deplorable racists. instead, he uses words like weirdos or cringe. he definitely doesn’t understand the true severity to dehumanization
I think he might at least somewhat understand it, but to acknowledge it would mean taking on some of the guilt of being part of that culture so he has to minimise and justify it.
The problem for me is that they keep using this word edgy being blatantly racist and using racial slurs is not edgy it’s just racism you cannot justify that his take was very awful nobody can tell marginalized communities to get over centuries of those words being used to degrade and disrespect poc
at this point edgy has lost its original meaning and just means bigoted and offensive now.
its wild because Ian literally says this like near the start of his apology but people keep parroting it regardless.
This should be pinned. I hate hearing the word edgy now. It's just meant to excuse attacks.
Sorry but if you defend racist behavior you aren't neutral or centerist. You a racist with them
if there’s a nazi in the room and no one is kicking him out or beating his ass, then you’re standing in a room full of nazis
period
Yes this.
yep
Exactly Charlie’s response was so reductive and immature I can’t watch his content anymore.
As someone who has been watching your content since before 2016, it's funny how people like to say that no one was criticizing bigoted/edgy/racist "humor." Yeah, sure, no one...
No one Moist was listening to, anyway. And since everything is about Moist and Moist's memory is the only objective truth, I guess we should thank him for posting this video. Otherwise, how would we know what to think?
Huh I guess Kat was just making lets plays up until 2020 and then suddenly started making social justice videos out of nowhere. Weird nobody was criticizing it.
This is really just an admission by him that the only thing he was watching back in 2016 was white youtubers.
"Vilifying the audience" is good actually. Like that wise bartender said: "You let one polite nazi in, he brings friends and suddenly it's a nazi bar"
If someone punches Charles in the face, I hope someone other than Charles tells his attacker that they shouldn't have to apologize. Because you see, when the attacker punched him in the face he didnt mean it with hateful intent. He just thought it would be funny to punch Charles in the face; he wanted to spread his love of slap-stick with the world!
This sounds like something Charlie would say which makes it extra funny
lol WELL PERSONALLY I think it's ok to decide not to punch anyone in the face, not because it's wrong and hurts people, of course...but because it's cringe now /s
Should the author then apologize for every "sucker punch" game on asian people? Which is done not by those wacky nazis, but by black population? Or it's woke racism, so it doesn't count?
Every time he just claims none of this stuff effected people I think of the vile harassment Franchesca Ramsey for her honestly pretty mild criticism of racist shock humour.
or anytime his audience goes over to harass and bully the people he makes fun of in his videos, which he calls out as bad (but he obviously is allowed to do it because he is "only joking")🙄
@@user7061 Charlie could have just… checked. There’s so many examples that can be found in the literal comments of Ian’s video. The easiest research task.
@@spacecat7864 yeah, i'm confused why he even went to twitter...? there are people RIGHT BELOW HIS OWN VIDEO telling him how ians videos affected others and how this "wasn't normal", too! it makes you wonder, if he deliberately misses the point here. (which i would not be surprised about)
@@user7061 I thought that too. This UA-cam guy called The Kavernacle made a video about the centrist bro UA-camrs and after watching that I am more sure that’s what’s going on here.
Yep!!!
I’m so glad you made this video. Moist’s response was terrible. He missed the entire point of the apology 🙄 and yeah, he has no right to say “you don’t need to apologize.” That’s not for him to decide, he wasnt the one affected.
People always forget that the opinions of those who are impacted by the harm. Those people knew the use of the word was wrong, so it’s not the time period in which it occurred that’s the problem.
Honestly everytime I watch videos review his terrible take I find something new that rubs me the wrong way. It's almost like he never thought his video through.
How does he even have an audience? Is this the new low that everyone is attracted to nowadays??
@@electraheart7745 He's generally not a bad person, he does have good and bad takes but this one was horrible.
@@electraheart7745 his audience is mostly redpilled incels that aren't very loud
It's such a shame that as a black people we are stuck taking, unpacking, and reacting to racism.
Because we're the only ones that care
i feel like thinking a slur is okay to say bc it “doesn’t really mean anything anymore” or “it’s just a joke” or “it’s edgy” is like, the definition of privilege, whether it’s about race, gender, sexuality, disabilities, anything really.
100% agree, just because it never meant anything to him doesn't mean it never meant anything to anyone else
"The definition of privilege,"
This this this this thisss.
I remember Franchesca Ramsey would say something in the lines of "racism is wrong" and people would be relentless and attack her. The same with you. I don't remember feeling these people were "edgy", just racist lol
She even had this one specific youtuber who made so much content about her and iirc even made like a parody song about her, I can’t imagine being her during that time
the word “edgy” is a lazy cop out to excuse straight up bigotry
Yup, and I remember her getting attacked for criticizing Shane Dawson’s blackface era & him & his fans were brutally insulting her & even calling her racial & misogynist slurs as well as calling her dumb.
@@chewedw1re Exactly. I think the whole "he didn't intend to be racist, just edgy" is just a sugarcoated way of saying, "He wasn't out to hurt people. He just didn't care that he was hurting people."
@@joeyjose727 yup, he was straight up harassing her. Last I heard about him he went off the rails and was involved in a gun incident (shocking)
Ive been checked out of this whole story so i appreciated this breakdown. This is wild
Hey Unc ♥️
Debate Destiny
oh it's you! I love seeing you here
@@mannyoftheeast3318💀
Me too man. Me too. Not surprised though.
To me, the problem with Charlie’s response all boils down to the question “Who is this for?” Charlie’s message can’t be for iDubbz, because iDubbz specifically said that he 1. Doesn’t care if he people who the apology wasn’t for don’t accept it and 2. He disagrees with those who say that he has nothing to apologize for. So how can Charlie be, comforting or supporting iDubbz, when he’s specifically going against what iDubbz said? His response is not for us, either, because telling people who the slurs affected that an apology was not warranted is disrespectful. So who feels better when you say stuff like that? Only someone who feels victimized by this apology. Only someone who feels the need to retroactively justify the things iDubbz is apologizing for.
very true
ding ding ding you nailed it
A hit dog will holler and all that
I'm a year late, and this is what I was scrolling down the comments hoping to find. It's an inherently dishonest take. It's pretending to be something it's literally incapable of being, meaning that the real motivation is something unspoken. The real emotion behind it is not what's being conveyed on screen.
As someone who used to watch idubbz, his videos *definitely* did affect younger people. I use to be one of those blk people to be like “I’m not offended”, and those were the days where I would push my blackness away. I also used to be a veryyy negative and hateful person back then and I cringe hard every single time I’m reminded of it 💀
Same I fell into the alt right pipeline
Being a kid who watched some of his videos, I remember his viewpoint about the n slur in his Tana Mongeau video and I couldn't get why it made me uncomfortable and tbh I still don't
THIS. EXACTLY THIS.
I bet you were the type of person to go, "I'm black and I found this funny"
His take on Ian's content cop was so weird to me 'cause he was very open about the fact that he was bullying these people. iDubbz expressed many times in the past that bullying is okay if he felt like they deserved it, and content cop was the direct result of that. So Charlie saying "he didn't mean to hurt them, he was just criticizing them while being funny" goes against Ian's own reasoning for making those videos
It’s so crazy how charlie keeps INSISTING that the use of racial slurs isn’t racist or hateful💀 I get the vibe that he probably enjoyed idubbz content back then.
I get the vibe he's around n word users still
And it's okay to admit that as long as you can understand that you changed and that idubbz content promoted the use of racist slurs to be used in racist ways. You can look back and say "yea that was pretty wrong of me to find that funny/or enjoyable but I didn't really know why I accepted that but now I do and I can be better" all we want is for people to do better. We all on some level have racist tendencies or internalized racist tendencies and it takes work to realize and do better. Idk why some people are so resistant to it. Resistant to admitting they were in the wrong. If you want to be a genuinely good person it takes constant work.
I'd go a step further and say likely still enjoys it...which is exactly why his ego was hit hard enough by that apology to feel the need to do this response video. If those racist, and otherwise bigoted, feelings were completely (or even adequately) behind him, he wouldn't have felt so called out.
I wouldn’t doubt it
if you dont say it with hate its not hateful nigga
It must be pretty wild to see the people who used to make/watch anti-SJW compilation of you then turn around and deny that people ever critiqued that "comedy style". Like no... things were not harmonious in 2016.
Fr. That was just a bold faced lie on his part.
Right the gaslighting is real 😂 I remember a very different 2016!
2016 was not “when all for nations were at peace” if we are going to go with his ATLA intro as the metaphor 2016 would be when the fire nation attacked.
Are you saying that used to make these compilations? I only know of him from what I’ve seen for the past year
Yeah it's wild to hear that anyone would really think that. Like, oh, you thought we were okay with all that? No dude, we just did not have the social power to make you stop saying or doing fucked-up things. People told you to stop; you did not listen.
Charlie needs to get it through his head that even if someone doesnt mean to be racist, they can still do racist things.
Sure, but it's all about intent and context. A person can accidentally kill someone, so it's manslaughter, if they intended to, it's murder. The end result is death, but they're not the same thing. Complicated, but true.
@TiredPleb i don't think you can compare manslaughter to purposely saying slurs and saying harmful things but just not having the intention to be racist. it's not like he didn't know that slurs were hurtful, he just tried to justify them
@@Plebs_ I see what you're saying but it's not applicable in this situation. If I dubs the person who did the actions says I look back on it now and I realize it was wrong and I was wrong. Who is Charlie or anyone else to be like Well Your intentions were good so it's okay?
@@Plebs_ your exemple doesnt really work because youre comparing a case where someone does not intend to kill vs intent to kill to a situation where someone did intend to say a slur and said it, simply did not intend for it to be harmful. Your exemple of someone who kills despite not wanting to would be more fitting to someone who says slurs despite not wanting to, perhaps because they have tourrette's or something. A better comparaison for the situation at end here would be: someone who intends to punch someone else because they hate them and wants to injure them, doing it and succeding at it vs someone who wants to punch someone else because they think it'd be funny and they're convinced that the other person does not feel pain, punch them, injures them and realises that the person is in pain. Legally, im pretty sure that either way, that would be considered assault regardless of if the intent was to harm or not, because at the end of the day, you wanted to punch that person.
Either way, comparing it to laws and legal systems to make a point doesnt really work either considering that laws changes from countries to countries, even within the same countries depending where you are. And some laws do not account for intent, like drug dealing for exemple does not account for if the dealer meant to induced addictions to the population or not, the sentence will be the same.
@@Plebs_ end result is still death and in this case the end result is still racism. Casual and joking racism is still racism, intent doesn't matter. If u say slurs you're still saying slurs idc if you're doing this in a joking manner (also it is such a privilege to view racism as a joke)
charlie is so clearly projecting and feels called out. It's so apparent in everything he says and how he says. It gets really obvious at the end where he's all like "don't talk bad abt ur old fans no should have to feel bad for thinking that was funny you're not a bad person for thinking that's funny".
1 thing about white men is that they got to make their hurt feelings everybody's problem. I seen it all the time online and irl, they'll pretend like they have a point to make, a hill to die on, when really they're just tryna get coddled bc it's what they're use to and what they expect. Like, what was the point of his video? really? Like, who on Earth EVER needs to make a video that boils down to "I, a white man, don't think other white people need to apologize for saying the n word. I think a white person apologizing for saying racial slurs is more morally reprehensible than them saying racial slurs" get absolutely real 🙄 he's just trying to assuage his guilt. It'd be embarrassingly pathetic if it was so infuriating.
I didn’t even notice this video when it first came out and I was looking at his comments and he got ate alive by his viewers, doubled down on his next video, and got eaten alive again. It’s it’s nice to see that some fan bases don’t mindlessly agree with what the content creator say when it is clear that they are in the wrong. Hopefully Charlie learns from this one day it’s unfortunate he didn’t want to listen to his viewers that spoke up.
Yeah I also appreciated that. As someone who was in his audience it makes sense and I’m glad
I'm late to the party here, but Charlie is the bellwether for normie opinions. people from all over the spectrum watch him to keep their hand on the pulse. in this instance, he went against the grain when it comes to normie sensibilities, so he caught flak from both the center and left-leaning portion of his audience
In 5th grade, this kid called me the N word and I almost got into a fight with him. His only punishment was an apology letter and 2 days of suspension. They moved me into a separate class. The BS of it all was how the white teachers and principal kept telling me, “I’m sure he didn’t mean IT that way…” They wanted me to forgive him.. almost as if I was overreacting. Same thing happened when this white girl spread a rumor that the product build-up in my hair was dandruff. What you said about the expectations to tolerate so much casual racism/micro-aggressions rings so true. I almost questioned whether I was the unreasonable one. Moistcritical’s close minded perspective reminds me of those teachers, exonerating racist behavior.
So relatable, white teachers always acted like it was just "kids being kids" rather than racism being expressed by a child. Having it brushed off hurts, I hope you're away from people like that now💛
What exactly is wrong with dandruff? As someone who was also once a black child, I wouldn't give a damn if someone said that to me, not back then and certainly not now. Everyone has it to some extent and every race uses hair products. The teacher crap I get, because that is some real BS that happens all the time and I have personally experienced it myself.
@@kugetsu Context and the person's own feelings matter. The reason I find that dandruff commentary insulting is because it's attached to made-up, nonsense stereotypes about how POC are 'dirty' and whites™️ are clean. If you've been surrounded by white people calling you dirty or similar and they throw in an unjustified dandruff remark as well and slander your name in 'dirtiness/a lack of hygiene altogether: that is an entire image of you being sold to others. It's slander, as I said.
I still remember when “centrist” youtubers like philip defranco would frame you like you were some hater radlib and as a fan of both of you at the time it was so confusing how people would characterize you like that when you’ve always felt gentle with your criticisms of other channels and stuff imo (particularly with him) & i realized it was literally bc they saw u as a black trans woman & immediately made up this sjw caricature in their minds & decided thts what u were
Yeah Phil Defranco made an entire video about me because I made a joke responding to a man that was openly white nationalist. He took that joke seriously and presented it as “why does UA-cam support this radical racist”. It was such a great example of how I am completely unable to make edgy jokes, but we are expected to extend endless sympathy and understanding to people who openly use racial slurs.
His video sent millions of people after me and I still occasionally get comments about it.
Phil Defranco is such a little coward. I’ll never forget standing in an elevator with him after the event and his obvious discomfort lol. He’s a hack.
I well remember him downplaying Trump and his supporters for years. His "unbiased" centrist days were so ridiculous.
I think there was a phase of UA-cam creation, where people were trying to say they weren’t biased, but the reality is we all are. And frankly, I think more people should have a bias when we talk about racism.
@@KatBlaque my first exposure to your content was in a sargon video lmao. I remember that even back then I had to tell myself that "she probably has a lot of intensely bad opinions and sargon is only showing the reasonable ones because he's not trying to demonize her"
Come to find out he's only showing the reasonable takes because those are the only takes he could find. And I was never very involved in political anything, youtube just sort of naturally guided me to feminist cringe comps and diet nazis. It still does on new accounts. Idk, it's just so wild to me that people can be misrepresented to the extent I've seen you and creators like you be and most of us don't even consider that, we just accept what we've been told and move on.
I still don't know if youtube enables bigots because it pushes bigoted content or if it pushes bigoted content because there are so many bigots.
@@maxsync183sadly I think it's the latter. The algorithms are designed to push what makes them more money. The content that gets the most views hence most ad revenue is usually reactionary bigoted content that caters to people who think they're not bigots (the irony).
And of course let’s not miss the irony of a cis het white man saying the apology wasn’t necessary when none of the slurs that IDubbz was saying applies/impacts him in any meaningful way. It reminds of when other influencers have been exposed for being bigots and post the crappiest non apology only for the dedicated non impacted fans to be like “it’s okay we love you 😍”
I know, right? It's always white people forgiving white racists when the white fans aren't even the ones being affected!
*cough* Jeffree Starr *cough*
I've had a cis het white man announce to me that because his friend got banned for shouting slurs at an event (and he defended his friend at the time), "justice has been done" and I shouldn't be angry anymore - at his friend, or him. The defensiveness and lack of perspective is astonishing
Drew Gooden had a similar situation. Said extremely racist derogatory "jokes" aimed against Asian people, and it was only like 2 years ago so he has no excuse. His apology kind of sucked and he was just like "Those jokes weren't funny I'm sorry" but his fans still love him and no one really got upset. Also the dude is 29, so he was 27(ish) when he made the jokes. More than old enough to understand.
@@atmmachine11 looked it up, and just wanted to let you know that the jokes were from 2016 and the apology was from 2021. Not trying to justify or anything, it still wasn’t okay in 2016 and it’s insane to find that out from a comment here now. Just wanted to update info so no one can use that against you (here or in the future if this is something you talk about again). Thank you for sharing this info.
Love that charlie is like “you dont need to apologize for running over people with your car on purpose, you didnt hurt anyone. And you shouldn’t have your license away, it was 2016. 37,000 people died in car accidents people were just doing that back then. It was okay to kill people with your car, it wasn’t murder it was “edgy”.” Edgy is such a big dog whistle
@@youtubesupportsfascismik you’re just a troll, but thinking that the trans community likes caitlyn jenner in any way is hilarious ty for the laugh
I literally couldn't finish this video cause my blood is boiling.
He really sat down and said calling y'all slurs is funny so stop overreacting. He is completely fine with black people being dehumanized to a point that it offends him when another white man apologizes for doing so.
I am so sick of lite fascism/racism that is called centrism.
All "moist" is saying is that he's also racist. If you are a grown adult and you don't think slurs harm people you either skipped every year of middle and high school social studies, or are willfully ignorant because you want to continue being racist.
a hit dog will holler every-time. You could tell he was feeling guilty BOOTS and had to project.
All you need to do to know that is watch his black panther reviews. Man's hates "woke" media
He does live in Florida, and they are trying to ban teaching about racism at all to keep the old white men happy 🤷♂️ Can’t be surprised Florida white man is uneducated unfortunately
Why did he take the time out of his day to film and post such an obtuse take? Why did he feel so offended by an apology that wasn't even made for him?
I've seen other videos of his and I'm going to guess he gets so many views because the young emo teen girls of today think he's hawt
Because he feels called out very much and knows what he’s doing is wrong.
@@helena4440 i don't know the mans analytics but i doubt its mostly young women watching
@@helena4440 as one of his regular viewers (and a trans man), most of his viewership is bigoted adult white men who actively hate on the LGBTQ community and poc, especially do so in his comment section whenever something queer or race related is brought up. Now, from what I've seen, Charlie doesn't share this mindset with the majority of his viewrbase, but I think is also scared to poke too much on the side of defending it because he could drastically lose a lot of his followers. He may not support transphobia or racism, and such, but he's not doing himself any favors by making videos like this.
@@CattywampusWoodsI'd say he's like Pewdiepie likely not racist but a useful idiot at the least
“Not meant to be hateful or hurtful.” He literally used autism as a pejorative and constantly used the r slur. That shit is intentional.
Garbage.
Ian literally said "make fun of people for being autistic" when he was explaining he was not "anti-bullying" and that bullying is okay actually in a content cop video. One of the first examples for when bullying is acceptable was ofc autistic people..
I have had people in the very recent past try to argue with me about the r-slur saying that "autistic" is also a bad word so they should both be used. That kind of rhetoric caused allistic people to literally think the word "autistic" is an insult and that the r-slur is equivalent and not actually a slur💀
@@TinyGhosty "autistic" is an insult in the same way that "gay" is an insult
@@killdestroy69 Neither are an insult. Bigots only thinks they are insulting because they hate marginalized communities and see us as lesser and not worthy of respect. The insult is the bigotry, not the word.
@@TinyGhosty yes, that is what I'm saying
charlie's problem is he intentionally misses the point. he is so clearly worried that he will one day be asked to apologize for the things he has said or done and it's like "look dude you have to be okay with that possibility. you aren't immune to the future holding you accountable."
what kind of messed up shit did he say or do?
@@Anonymous-bi5pvI don't think that's the point necessarily, just that he seems defensive as if even the possibility of being held accountable for any wrongs he might have done is fundamentally threatening to him
@@Anonymous-bi5pv I used to watch a lot of his really early stuff when he just used to play games and react/commentate to them, and I'm sure I remember him using a lot of the 'edgy' humour back then, using r-word and the like. I can't say for absolute certainty as I stopped watching the guy well over half a decade ago, but I'm fairly sure if someone trawled his old content they'd find uses of it. I'm not saying he needs to apologise or be cancelled for it, that's not up to me to really be involved in, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's aware of his 'edgy humour' in earlier content potentially being a source of contention later down the line, and he's not ready to face that or apologise for it, and instead is using this to try and desperately state you don't need to be held accountable for that stuff.
The trouble with Charlie's take is... yes, that absolutely WAS the norm at the time, I remember as a kid using the r-word, sp*z, and other ableism shit, saying every bad thing was 'gay' and using it to insult others etc etc. But at the same time, many of us who did do that aren't trying to then clamour to say it was acceptable just because it was the language of the time. It WASNT acceptable. It was shitty behaviour and it hurt people. I personally tried to use that language to fit in, not to bully others, but i still acknowledge even if my intent was just for the laughs, it still had hurtful potential and normalised hurtful language. Charlie simply needs to accept that, but he won't.
You can’t say “Times were so different then” and simultaneously say that using those words was “shock humor”. Either that word was normal back then, or it was considered shocking and distasteful. Charlie isn’t even realizing how contradictory his own argument is
i unsubbed to him because his take was genuinely triggering to me. i’ve met countless people who think like that, and i’ve fought tooth and nail to get these people to understand my side of things as a poc.
it never works and they never truly understand. it’s tiring
Very true. 💔
I feel you there. I had some acquaintances who casually had these views and conveyed them as such. I didn't like that and I didn't feel like giving them my energy so I just stopped talking to them. When confronted about this, they had the nerve to call me judgemental for my reasoning
@@guntherstewart8941 🙄the irony... Maybe if they used their brains more they'd be empathic towards minorities and "judge" bigots
Yeah that video was the nail in the coffin for me. He had expressed some bad or awkward takes in other videos that rubbed me the wrong way but I just always brushed them aside, but I feel like this video is different in that it shows you so clearly his perspective and way of thinking, and just how ignorant and enabling he is. I'm not interested in giving any more engagement to centrists who insist on either turning a blind eye to prejudice and harassment or trying to excuse it when it's coming from someone who's also in their privileged group (a white cishet male).
same.
I am deeply fascinated by how determined Charlie is to completely miss the point. Of course he thought everyone lived in harmony, he wasn’t affected by what was going on at the time. It’s kind of infuriating that he even refused to fully get it in his follow-up. iDubbbz apology was so well-crafted and heartfelt and actually resonated with me and I‘m still baffled by the fact that Charlie‘s immediate urge was to make a "Weeeeell aaaaactuuuaaaally" video response.
Yea that follow up was awful, i was really hoping he would get the criticism
The way that Charlie also insisted that no one was actually hurt by the videos directly contradicts a part of iDubbbz' apology video where he said he realized he was hurting people when a fan came up and said "I know you probably don't like trans people but can we get a picture together"
The fact that Charley keeps using the word "cringe" to describe edgy racism is so telling.
There are tons of "cringe" things out there. Someone singing badly is cringe, someone who draws shitty webcomics is cringe, someone making a fool of themselves is cringe.
He describes it that way because it doesn't affect him, and he goes out of his way to make it seem like it's the non slur stuff that Idubbz is mainly atoning for because he sees a condemnation of the cruelty the videos were based in as a condemnation of himself for enjoying them.
I’m 33, I’ve grown up with internet - there has never been any point in my life where saying the N-word wasn’t rightfully understood to be racist, and anyone claiming to be using it ironically or anything would certainly have their ass handed to them by anyone with the mental reasoning skills of the average 16 year old….
Remember that period of the internet where n-word passes were a thing and I'm going to say the n-word was a meme?
@@kittykittybangbang9367 I would like to not remember that
I'm even older than that, and there certainly have been times and spaces in the past 20 years where the people in them either felt that it was acceptable, or refrained from arguing due to fear of being shunned. But it's not like it was ever ok in recent decades in the majority culture whether online or not. I could almost see somebody conning themselves into believing it's actually kind of ok and the majority culture is wrong. I can't see somebody claiming to be unaware that any normal person not in that subculture would look at it with horror or disapproval.
Personally, even outside of racism, I find the whole notion of "you don't need to apologize, if you didn't mean to cause harm" wild. Actions have consequences, regardless of intent. Apologies are about acknowledging those consequences (regardless of intent), acknowledging the person you have harmed (regardless of intent), and about signalling regret and wanting to do better in the future. Apologies are not (should not be) about you, as in: defending or rationalizing your actions, or redeeming your character or whatever. They should be about doing right by the victim(s).
If you think about other contexts, e.g. "I won't apologize for cheating on you, because 'I didn't mean to' and it kinda just happened" or "I won't apologize for running over and killing your pet, because 'I didn't mean to'" .. in pretty any context people would recognize denial of an apology on account of "I didn't mean to" as the callous rationalization and dismissal of the victim that it is.
Yet 'somehow', 'some' people fail to see the callousness about "you don't need to apologize, if you 'didn't mean to' be racist". Goes to show how normalized casual racism is.
THANK YOU! I was literally dying while watching Charlie’s responses and him just not getting it
it's like
if you accidentally injure someone, you'd still apologize even if you never meant to do it, even if it was completely unintentional on your part
like, it's not saying you're evil to admit that you wronged someone, regardless if you meant to or not
It sounds wild because it is, and the people making that argument aren't usually sincere. They'd apologize if they smacked somebody with their elbow trying to pass them in a hallway; they wouldn't even think about it.
They don't believe what they're saying, and more people need to call them out on that directly instead of trying to debate the argument itself.
Charlie feels very called out himself by Ian’s apology. So he has to excuse Ian’s actions so he doesn’t feel like he needs to apologize for his past, or his continued ignoring of the trans community.
bingo
heavy on the “ignoring the trans community” part
Wait, ive been watching him for a year. May I ask about the ignoring of trans stuff? I haven't seen this.
wait what happened with charlie and the trans community?
im also wondering about the trans thing ?
The whole "it was just edginess" argument is really silly because the whole point of edginess literally is to offend people. They said the n-word on the internet explicitly because they knew people would be offended by it.
Yeah duh, the offendedness is the punchline. Not the racism
Just him having the arrogance to make this 'response' proves the point. He is so comfortable in his whiteness and superiority complex that he thinks this apology had anything to do with him. It's almost comical and ironic how he ran straight into the wall (the point) and still missed it.
We should probably collectively refuse to let a teachable moment about a former edgelord sorting their shit and being honest about doing sketchy stuff be hijacked by a fool, but at the same time, this does highlight how growth and getting over yourself can be contrasted with doubling down, and how one is probably healthier.
IDubbbz: *apologizes to the people of color*
Charlie: damn that hurts
On a more serious note than my initial comment, I also thought both Charlie's initial response and his follow up "L Take" video where he "clarified" his statements i.e. doubled down, were BAD. I think you're totally right that he's blinded by his lack of intersectional world views or he might just be really sheltered. He's either missing (or worst case scenario, disregarding) idubbbz point about meeting a transgender fan and that being a kind of "Come to Jesus" moment for Ian. Along with that he either misses or ignores the context that Ian and his wife were getting hell rained down upon them by IANS OWN FAN BASE BECAUSE OF THE BEHAVIOR HE CULTIVATED. That's the primary reason (at least I saw) that Ian made the "I miss the old Idubbbz" video and disavowed his old, racist fans.
This whole situation from Charlie and then his dropping of it after "L Take" video left such a bad taste in my mouth.
Every bad take comes with a free double down
wtf why is he treating this like it was a teenager's screemo phase? it's not just about getting older and cringing at your younger self, it's growing as a human being and having a better understanding of the world and how your actions impact everyone. Litterally the only thing moist is disagreeing with is the part where Idubbbz has developped empathy for others and the capacity to show genuine vulnerability.
Charlie is so......... Simpleminded? I always thought his videos were so surface level and milquetoast to farm views but now I think he's just incapable of critically analyzing anything?
Or employing empathy
Yeah. Off topic-ish but even with when he's like reviewing food or something and he doesn't know what half of the stuff is. I try not to call names but the best way I could describe him is just kind of dumb 😅
in a lot of his videos he will say the exact same point over and over and over and it's like we get it move on to the next point or end your vid. his videos feel so long and stretched out with no substance
@@youtubesupportsfascism bait somewhere else
If idubbbz was never racist to begin with then it is the most logical thing to apologize! If it was all about dark, edgy humor, the fact that so many people were hurt by something he did without it being his intention, if he has even a little bit of empathy for those people, of course he'd apologize.
It's like getting war flashbacks when I think of youtube in 2016. What I found especially horrible and downright criminal is when literally every anti sjw was harassing Milo Stewart, and they were a teenager!
Yep! And then Milo started capitulating to them. Very sad
The content is even more ridiculous than I thought. I agree that the idea that this was a video that he decided to make is probably the most flabbergasting thing to think about. The entire point of iDubbz video is him realizing that the intention was irrelevant for him because the impact was almost worse. iDubbz fostered a hostile environment for minorities on the internet by giving people an excuse to use slurs. It's almost like Charlie made this video because he wants to attract that audience that iDubbz is casting away.
Fr! ^
And if that’s what he’s going to do I’m ready to unsubscribe from him.
@@lkeke35 honestly same!! His whole video was such a red flag. And even that’s an understatement
@@lkeke35I unsubscribed as soon as he posted this mess 🤢
That's what i thought too!! On the one hand you have idubbz saying bigots are not welcome in his audience anymore, then you have Charlie basically being like 'don't worry you're welcome here! come to to me instead!'. It's pretty fcked and I'm seriously thinking of unsubscribing tbh.
They want us to sit around guessing if people going around using racial slurs as a joke are "actually racist", heres the thing, doesn't really matter. The effect is still the same, your still hurting groups of people have to constantly deal with racism in their day to day life. You're still adding to that experience of hearing people use words that are dehumanising.
Honestly, I'm so glad I grew up in a predominately black country.
no seriously because I thought the general consensus was if you’re using slurs and know the meaning …then you’re either racists or just a shitty person it’s not rocket science
He rly doesn't understand the concept of hurting someone if "they didn't mean it"🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
why is Charlie even mad that someone wanted to apologize for saying racist crap???
rich white male living in fl*rida
I can't believe that Charlie is looking at what seems to be a genuine apology and show of understanding from Idubbz, and is like "nah bro, this isn't right".
I think Kat is onto something with the idea that he is identifying with who Idubbz used to be, and therefore feels defensive/judged because he's changing. Honestly if you did identify with who Idubbz presented to the world back then, you should judge yourself.
I knew it wasn't okay as a white teenager in the early 2010's, living on the other side of the world.
When you brought up the part about dehumanization, it reminds me of when we were considered 3/5 of a human. Let it sink in.
Black bodies were literally used as collateral for several banks back then (that are still in business to this day). We have never been seen as human since we stepped off the boat--and that was intentional. If Black people were "actually human," that would make the people treating them terribly look like monsters! But since they labeled us adjacent to animals, their poor treatment was acceptable. 🙃
@@brie1026 That made me think of the horrible case of Anderson McCrew, a Black homeless man who died in the early 1900s and was mummified and turned into an attraction for a traveling carnival then became a "town mascot" used by frat boys for pranks before he was finally buried. 😓
@@grumpysphinx4911 I have never heard of this case wow that’s fucking disgusting … not even surprised tho
Cis white guy says apology for ppl who are the complete opposite of him wasn’t necessary because he didn’t find them offensive. I hate to state it so bluntly but that’s exactly what just happened. How is the exact person that the apology wasn’t intended for gonna think he’s the right person to decide if said apology is needed? It can’t get any more illogical and unreasonable than that
I was following you long before 2016 but that was the era your facebook lives were a lifeline for me. It's so exhausting to hear the argument "things were different back then" like... Yeah, the proliferation of edgelords was more widely accepted back then, sure, BUT there was still a lot of criticism for that approach and view at that time.
It's so weird to hear people who have grown and learned and changed in the direction of being less racist or bigoted, or at least more aware of the forces of bigotry, claim that the entire world changed with them, that no one was aware before them, that no one was critical of that stance before them.
Exactly! Especially since *they* were the ones calling people "snowflakes" or SJWs. To go from actively mocking a group of people critiquing you to ignoring that that criticism existed.... smh.
In 2016 people were already calling out people for doing this stuff in early 2010s and earlier UA-cam. It literally sounds like 2018 and people are taking about early white youtubers again. It was bullshit when people were excusing past behavior as edgy then, and it's even more bullshit now.
"Things were different back then" ALWAYS flattens the past to a singular, "innocently offensive" perspective: never deliberate, never shown with any oppositional pushback from the same era.
Thomas Jefferson had detractors *within his lifetime* calling him out for his "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" slave-owning hypocrisy.
For HP Lovecraft, there's letters & correspondence *with him* found criticizing his racism, even within the literary circles he frequented.
The difference is in what voices are elevated & respected while others are silenced, not what voices never existed at all :/
Idubbz: I shouldn’t have uses casual
racism in my videos
Moistcritical: but it was casual
Lol this is so on point tho, basically Charlie's argument
or it just wasnt racist because there is no intent. yall can have fun calling someone racist for reading huckleberry finn
This dude is 100% telling on himself because if his favourite edgelords are growing up and realizing how shitty they were back then and he hasn't reached that point himself, he has to take a closer look in the mirror and he doesn't want to.
It seems like idubbz really struck a chord in him because this is a very overly-sensitive reaction. I left a similar comment on the original idubbz reaction, but someone else looking inward to address internalized racism and going public about that process forces other white people to do the same thing. idubbz is one of his peers. He's probably thinking, If HE'S apologizing for these things, and I thought they were funny back in the day, am I a bad person? And he's getting defensive over his inner guilt. Why process your guilt and move on when you can make excuses instead? Especially with his focus on intent. We've all had a situation where our words and our intentions didn't match up. If you're someone who's not personally impacted by racial slurs, if you think they're not a big deal or laugh at them, and then someone who IS impacted speaks up and says um...don't say that? All of a sudden you have to confront your internalized anti blackness and how even if you don't think you HATE black people, you're indifferent to black suffering. I think your focus on dehumanization was right on the mark. It's very ironic when he talks about being trapped in echo chambers and not growing because like...look at yourself man. Also thank you for pointing out once again how people back in the day KNEW what idubbz was doing was bad. He was a staple of drama content all over the platform and so many other creators looked the other way and used his content (especially his tana video) as part of their own commentary without addressing his own use of slurs.
im still confused as to why Charlie thought it was okay to make that video when he wasn’t even the recipient of Idubbz apology.
Many hypothesize that he felt called out.
Oh em gee! Did he just compare being short to being racist? As if they are both equally shameful? What?
Right!? That was so confusing and weird. It was one little line but I was so dizzy with confusion, I can't get it out of my head.
It was a poor joke
Ouch! His so-called joke seems very ableist
@@voxomnes9537 that man's entire career is a poor joke
Also, you're so right about 2016 internet culture. I've been on the internet almost my entire life; 2014-2017 or thereabouts were insanely brutal for misogyny and racism. Even just being a woman online made people hostile to you if you weren't devoting your efforts to being a "pick me". The emergence, or, rising popularity of "left tube" (I hate that phrase lmao) creators like yourself, Lindsay Ellis, Hbomberguy etc. during that time as almost a counter movement literally made me feel so fucking SANE when I felt like I was losing my mind just existing online. I can't even imagine how exhausting it was to make those videos in that time - but it was and is SO appreciated x
It is bizarre to me that less than 10 years ago is being framed like ancient history
Right lmfao
I dont understand the position of "edgy racism was accepted back then" no it wasnt. I was in high school back then and it very much wasnt ok then either.
I feel like it's very telling that apparently the thing that both this guy and the guy who made the video on Mr. Beast's Trans friend is "how it will impact their audience retention". One starts to wonder if it's a signal to the Racists and transphobes in the audience who feel called out to say " oh hey , this creator dosn't approve of you, but I don't care about it, you are safe here"
Like a dog whistle in a way
You know he's bsing though because 2016 is when trump got elected. And EVERYONE noticed racist being more bold. Hell yt people voted for it! So I think he is being very transparent. I think who he really is slipped through
Charlie got so defensive, and basically told on himself. Now we all know he probably says the same slurs in his personal life, and enjoys it.
He just doesn’t like having to look in the mirror and ask “am i racist?” So instead, he attacks another white man who does feel remorse.
Ooor you're just actually racist against all white men, and need to literally make up excuses to hate them when you don't see any real ones.
@@whateverwhatever4026 get a life lmao "racist against white men"🤡🤡
To say Charlie is a little sheltered is putting it extremely lightly lol. He clearly doesn’t get it or doesn’t want to get it since he doesn’t interact with POC or has any intention of interacting with people that don’t share the same skin color and values.
People like this genuinely piss me off because I literally keep opinions to myself in fear cishets will jump down my throat for just having a different world view. I grew up watching you and Riley J Dennis getting shat on for not being total pick mes like Blaire White, so the whole "it's just edgy bro" pisses me off. We got bullied if we had an opinion on said edginess, now we have to hear how it was normal? Yes, it was normalized, but that's because nay sayers would be gaslit and screamed at.
I think Charlie’s gay.
But yea, as a trans queer person, a lot of times cis people are upset and uncomfortable with my opinions
@@straberryshinigami15g97 Charlie lives with his gf in Florida
thanks for mentioning that slurs are used mainly to dehumanize, i know it should be fucking obvious but it seems like it often goes forgotten and i have to remind people... 😐 I've had to explain history to my dad because he still thought it was okay to say the r slur, satan help me...
Charlie really was in another 2016. There were “anti SJWs” because there were and are people that think the type of content that uses “edgy” humor at the expense of marginalized groups is wrong. Do they not want to admit the SJWs were right all along? ( I sent you the ironic SJW mug and notebook back then.)
I did see the content cop videos, begrudgingly in order to keep up with online culture. Ian did make some good points and the slurs and some of the attitude was a huge issue for me and others back then. I even left comments saying this in the most polite way possible and got a bunch of SJW and snowflake comments as replies.
I do not know why the memory of 2016 is so distorted for so many people. It was said that it was wrong. It was explained by plenty of people over and over again. Seems we were dismissed so easily it has been erased from memory.
PS, Pewds is definitely at least a N*zi sympathizer, his Honey sponsorship donation to the anti defamation league being withdrawn and his silence while that org was harassed online was confirmation for me.
still have that mug!!
We need to stop coddling racists and make them uncomfortable and afraid. Call people out for what they are. It’s so frustrating how Black people can’t even say that something is racist when it absolutely is without a white person inserting themselves into the conversation and saying how it’s not racist.
I truly despise the way Charlie shits on an apology that wasn’t even for him. Considering Charlie was in his twenties at the peak of IDubbz on UA-cam. He really does not understand what it was like for kids in middle school consuming this content. Idubbz effect on internet culture really created a toxic space that prevails to this day.Charlie is probably projecting his own biases in his video.
I was one of those kids and I literally started thinking that saying the n-word would save the future. Directly from Ian's content. I can't believe ppl are agreeing with Charlie here.