Check out all the resources I mention in my red light therapy dosing video, as well as other light therapy resources: ✅ Join the epic Alex Fergus & Light Therapy Insiders Facebook group here: aferg.co/fb-group ✅ My shopping tool where you can compare all the products on the market and get the best deal: aferg.co/product-database ✅ Full playlist of my 2022 body panel red light therapy comparison series with all episodes: aferg.co/RLT-2021-playlist - check the summary towards the end if you're short on time ✅ My Excel sheet for comparing different panels to their competition: aferg.co/rlt-data ✅ For my red light therapy buyer's guide, follow this link: aferg.co/RLTguide ✅ My red light testing methodology for reviews video: aferg.co/rlt-testing-method ✅ My red light therapy blog with many deep dive articles: aferg.co/redlightblog ✅ My James Carroll interview: aferg.co/carroll-interview ✅ My red light therapy through clothes video: aferg.co/clothing
Alex, thanks for posting this video; I find all of your content to be valuable and very helpful. On the topic of dosing and maximum treatment time per day, I note that if you have a full-body panel and get 5 minutes' of exposure on the front of your body, the cells on that half of the body have received a certain number of joules of energy depending on the output of the panels and the distance (and other factors). For example, assume that this treatment gives 45 joules of exposure. However, if you have a smaller panel with the same specifications as the full panel and treat a smaller body area for the same time at the same distance, that area of the body has also received the same 45 joules of exposure. If I repeat this treatment enough times on the front of my body to cover all of the same areas as would be covered by a full-body panel, it might take 4 separate treatments. In those 4 treatments, each body area has received 45 joules, but the total body exposure is 4 x 45 joules = 180 joules, which exceeds the recommendations I have seen (Ari Whitten's book) of 120 joules "per session". I understand that dosing is not an exact science, but the fundamental question is whether or not applying RLT to multiple smaller body areas in a day results in a cumulative body exposure that exceeds recommendations for total daily exposure. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
Age 82 with a.Diagnosis of osteopenia and bone on bone in both knees. My intent is to grow stem cells and at first I thought I’d follow the protocol used in the study on knees. Now, I think it’s best to take it gradually and make increases based on my bodily responses. There are many variables here, even season variations. Sometimes I may tolerate less or more.
Skin reflection issue. Gembared says “Reflection Compensation: Estimate about 60% of the light intensity will be reflected from the skin. So multiply your intensity by 0.4 or multiply the exposure time by 2.5 as a rough compensation.” And ““So standing any significant distance away from a red light panel will result massive losses due to skin reflection alone! The NIST database of skin reflectance spectrum measurements shows a skin reflectance on average of about 60% in white skin around 660nm to 850nm! This is very high!”” That means that to properly compute a dose in Joules/cm2 we would multiply the number of seconds by 2.5, agree AF?
Hey. Yes another variable to add to the complex equation. And it just reinforces my point - why it's so different to calculate dosing figures from panels. I personally don't even bother. I just do what has been helping me for years now, and thats about 5-10mins each side stadning about 4-6 inches from my panel. i do this 4-5x a week.
In your blog post you said, that you only need a low intensity and duration for anti-aging, wrinkles etc for the skin, longer sessions will have no/zero effect. I don't understand that: the skin benefits from red light therapy for the first 60 seconds (just for the example), then later the deeper tissue. So what is the difference between 60 seconds and 5 minutes for the skin? The initial first 60 seconds will have a positive effect for the skin anyway or? Why should there be zero effect in total if you do it longer than those 60 seconds?
I do. Stick to 3 minutes on the eyes with joy.What's directly looking inthe mathen?I'll close my eyes do more of the front and then turn around and do the back for as long as I feel like
Hello, so your question got me thinking and I Google Scholar (ed) until I found the term "Arndt-Schultz law". Which essentially was as close an answer as anyone willing to hedge. "For many years, this Arndt-Schultz law has been used as a convenient concept to explain the cellular and tissue interactions with light." This quote is in a paper called "Review of light parameters and photobiomodulation efficacy: dive into complexity" ( I will link). I will post the conclusions here as the paper is dense and the conclusions are sort of funny. 1. Cells with higher numbers of mitochondria respond better to PBM than cells with lower numbers of mitochondria. 2. Ineffective studies on cells with higher numbers of mitochondria are as likely to be due to over-dosing as they are to under-dosing. 3. It is less likely that ineffective studies in cells with lower numbers of mitochondria will be due to over-dosing. 4. The fluence delivered is more important in determining the success or failure of an in vitro study than the irradiance employed. 5. Tissues with higher numbers of mitochondria tend to be deeper within the body than tissues with lower numbers of mitochondria, therefore, over-dosing is less likely. 6. Ineffective studies in vivo are more likely to be due to under-dosing regardless of the number of mitochondria. I have MS and am using photo modulation to reduce inflammation and limit my disease progression. My fingers are crossed and if my skin glows while I heal, so be it. The paper is in the Journal of Biomedical Optics, a paper in the NIH from 2018. There may be newer studies to help us figure this out. Thanks for your videos and knowledge. It has been so helpful. (link). www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8355782/
There are full body clinical studies on Pub Med that we can refer to get a sense of dosing protocols. To simply suggest that people stand six inches from their high intensity 90 - 100 mW/cm^2 panels doesn't take into account the science of dosing responsibly. While we may not have exact milliwatt numbers, we know that none of the studies using full body non-contact devices on Pub Med used anything over 50 miliwatt per square centimeter. In fact, some successfully used just 18 - 30 mW/cm^2. Another thing to take into account is that men and women have different skin thickness, so what might work for a 6 foot 2 man may be too much for the average woman.
Does Pulsing actually work or is it just a marketing gimmick like PlatinumLED suggests it is, or are they just saying that because they don't offer it? Thoughts? Please advise...
According to Dr. Hamblin and Dr. Huberman, pulsing is thought to work because different frequencies of light (10hz and 40hz) resonate with alpha and gamma brain waves and because the light is being delivered to the body at those frequencies the beneficial effects are more pronounced. Platinum and others are against pulsing because they erroneously associate LED pulsing with pulsing that was associated with lasers to reduce the heat coefficient factor of a continuous wave laser. Same word, but two entirely different applications.
Hi Alex, can you recommend a product on a budget? I am in the UK and want to try it for long covid recovery and chronic fatigue. I dont have the money to buy a full body panel. Will a smaller device under 500£ do?
Alex, very interesting comments on reflection! Here's my idea. I study automotive lighting photometry enhancement for many years. These panels definitely need a proper reflective surface, & people should really build their own 45degree arc reflectors for the sides. (Sort of the shape of a clock time between 12 & 3 and 12 & 9). Also the same for behind your body but a 180 degree parabolic reflector. The most reflective coating is pure silver at 98% which is expensive & will oxidize in open air but used in telescopes, & microscopes but is sealed with an inert gas. High quality mirrors are also silver plated.... The most common reflector material is pure aluminum with a LRV (light reflectance value) of about 93%. You will want a dull reflective surface, not shinny to evenly distribute the light back to the body. I would simply use high quality cooking aluminum foil & use the dull side, not the shinny side. I would also place this over the panel & cut out holes around the LED & use rubber cement to lightly coat the panel to stick the foil too or other release adhesive in order to change out foil since Aluminum Foil will eventually micro-oxidize & loose reflectance, just not sure if Red Light wavelengths will accelerate it, or not, but a coat of SIO2 or general sealer car wax will help. They also make aluminum foil tape used in construction industry, but it will have to be burnished with 000, 00 Steel Wool to make it dull. Finally, the most reflective coating is Barium Sulfate & Purdue University is working on putting it in paint to paint commercial buildings to lower global warming. It is also the gold standard coating used in Lab Integrating Test Spears. (Integrating Sphere Radiometry and Photometry). You can easily buy lab grade Barium Sulfate powder & mix it into your own paint or use a flat white spray paint & dry-dust it into the semi wet paint for ultimate reflectance! The study from Purdue however uses multiple sized micron particles of Barium Sulfate. Now, I hope all your LED mfgs send me free panels for this design tip, or a check$$$ for using my idea! "Prior Art" Declared! Also, a person commented below about using Grow Tent Mylar. Not sure what is made from, but if its Chromium like chrome, its only 65% reflectance value LRV. I wonder what those large light diffuser parabollic reflector umbrellas use for their coatings for professional photography?🤔
Wow. This is wayyy over my head, but it sounds very interesting! Curious - what are you doing for work now? If you ever wanted to write some blog articles on this topic (or anything else related to RLT) I'd happily pay you for your work! Flick me a message if so. Email address is in the About section on my YT channel.
In my estimation, for powerful biomax900 for most superficial skin benefits would be around 60 seconds per area from 18” away (8 j/cm2) AND for deep tissue and injury healing: 70 joules of dose = 438 seconds at 12” away (7.3 minutes at 12”)
Hi there, would you mind explaining how you got these numbers and parameters? Ive purchased a MitoPro Max 300 and would like to know how I can achieve max benefits for acne scarring, fine lines and wrinkles, and collagen production.
An error in my calculation is likely that it does not take into account light reflection off the skin. Gembared says to multiply time by 2.5 to account for reflection. Alex, what is your opinion on the reflection issue? Agree with gembared?
Pretty much. More is always better right. Actually though - it is one way to determine a good dose, use too much until you see damage. Stop, recover. Next time, do less. Keep working down until you aren't getting hurt. I dont' recommend this approach btw. But I guess there is some benefit right.
Still can take time to process the light. Just sitting there until it hurts is kinda irrelevant nor effective when there are factors like time in how the light is processed
You do know Science is not a living being. So it can not say. Now there are many scientist. Getting them all to agree on something though. Would be a feat!
Informative video, I tend to disagree with the "lost light' comments because of distance, shape, size. Back in the days when people actually went outside and got sufficient light, distance from sun rarely changed, beam angle, clothes, scars, moisture, skin tone and other factors you mentioned in my view are not relevant...the body is smart, put a light in front of it and it will take what it needs, we didn't all walk to the top of a pyramid and bath ourselves in sun (maybe we did!). Too much science, confusing people with different variables is only going to confuse people and send them in other directions, hence your concluding comments. Don't forget the placebo effect #powerful
Another factor is I've heard of studies that would treat someone's hand and they would show improvement in the brain. The TLDR on this is they found mitochondria can leave the cell and float in the blood and other areas receive benefit. So dosing a target area like a knee may be hard but dosing your chest or back could help your knee. Makes you wonder if you should target the meaty areas of the body to target the most mitochondria.
Excellent video that clears up that wee do not know a lot about redlight. Just that it works!! I think there are too many shots of Alex using the Red Light with his clothes on.. Sitting in front of a panel with your clothes on is not going to give you an effective treatment. Most of the time you need bare skin. A dark shirt does not cut it.
Hey, yeah my video editor shot a lot of content with me using the panel -and yes a lot of this footage is of me in clothes. Next time round I'll do more shirtless shots etc. I better tighten up my diet :P
Ask an engineer who has taken the course of illumination, he or she can give you a guesstimate number based on calculations with assumptions. There is digital simulation software to calculate. This is not rocket science and we don’t need that accurate calculation. Please don’t complicate engineering calculations. the difficulty is to quantify the effect and benefits on human body. I can’t agree with you more: We don’t know. We hope it works we wish it works, we feel like it’s working, we test on ourselves.
Sorry have big hands and dupytrens, but the obvious is missed translation of wavelengths is surely much more efficient that way we could increase efficiency c of red light by foil and even use a particle surface to create red light reflect or trabsnutation of non red ie even blue obvious, reflector is the obvious upgrade, lasers seem much more efficient also ie coherent and easier tl control but pot dangerous intensity only affects oebetration and not bio molecular effect which is according to planks constant totally dependent on wavelength and nothing to do with intensity, so here is the basic science, frequency is everything we still do not understand this a broad iscikating red from 600 to 800 znd check on cellular functioning woukkd help.
Hi Alex i recently brought a rlt panel after coming across your channel im using it for my back pain but my daughter wants to use it for her face is this safe?
I want to use the infrared panel while I am in the sauna. But I don't want to put the panel in the Sauna, therefore I thought that I can place it behind the sauna glass. Doest glass affect the infrared light? How far away can I sit and still have all the benefits? What would you choose if your budget is around 700€ for this use?
Not sure that this is a good idea. First of all: red light does penetrate glass. That why you can see red through glass. It is visible light. Infra should be the same or similar. There are dedicated unfrared saunas that you can by with led panels instead of a heater built in. I understand you want to sit in a regular heated sauna and then additionally shine the infrared onto yourself? I reckon this could be too much. And the heat from the sauna could mask any unwanted effects from the IR/Redlight. You might not be able to tell, when you have had enough/too much IR/Redlight, when you are already sitting in intense heat. Also, a sauna heater, as any natural heat source, already also emits infra red radiation. So you will have higher dosage with no idea if it is benefiting or harming you.
So if it is only for the face, it will be better to buy a mask? The distance, strength etc. it all be there nothing to adjust I guess. What do you think?
So, I was using the Joov from a Spa clinic at 15-20 mins @ 1-2” away, for this is what they instructed me. Went twice a week - Tuesday/Friday for about 20 sessions. Well, I started to notice I was getting a headache on my right side, nausea, diarrhea, intense hunger, just to name a few. Keep in mind, I wasn’t changing anything in my diet or supplement routine. I am 43 and about 95 lbs. very slender. Was this too much exposure?? I just bought my Platinum LED today Biomax 900 to use at home. I’m super excited, but nervous these symptoms will start again. I want the benefits, so what would a good regimen be? Is there a formula for correct dosage for maximum benefits? Thanks Kindly!
Hey, I think 1-2 inches for 20 minutes is too much to start with. The BioMax is a powerful panel; I would start with just a few minutes, approximately 12-18 inches away from the panel. Slowly increase the time and lessen the distance from the panel. Check out my Facebook group; many members there will share what works for them.facebook.com/groups/lighttherapyinsiders
The obvious. So on the obvious the Sunlight red effect is partly due to reflection and transmission which turns blue and uv into red light. All these other wavelengths Must have a bio electric effect ie frequency creates plank humps in electron orbital tggis is thhe Q mech effect of light and how the body has evolved I presume ie lizards shelter or heat up on rocks rimmed converting uv to red works for them, could we do this a light source then use a reflector to change it to red or modify it so the wavelength is miduklated by the surface reflector?
REFLECTIO - EFFICIENCY. So the obvious why not use Reichian reflection ie a thin aluminium foil blanket or similar would increase efficiency far higher!
My interpretation of the data is that there is no one-size-fits-all optimal dose. The dose depends on the tissue being targeted. Cells with more mitochondria require different dosages, targeting deep tissue requires a different dose compared to skin... and if you're targeting deep tissue, you're going to overdose the skin above it. My conclusion was essentially the same as yours - there's no accessible way to determine proper dosage, so... To paraphrase Michael Pollan "Use light. Not too much. Mostly red."
I can't find the video with the large panel that had a stand to be vertical and could also be turned to be horizontal over the body while laying down...Could you please direct me to this product?
After doing a 20min session on my back this morning I got a blister and wonder if it was because I’ve been doing it too long? I’ve been doing it everyday. 10-20 min on my back since Jan 1st and at a close distance. Also last night I applied a cream on my back and forgot to remove this morning before RLT. What do y’all think?
thank you so much, Alex! Super useful info, just watched a bunch if your videos and you've demystified everything and really helped me to pick a panel!
Alex thanks for tackling such a difficult topic. What I used to inform my stab at a dosing time is the sun salutations of yoga, the ritual of sun salutations has 12 poses that last 3 to 4 minutes each pose, for a total time (36-48 minutes). Thus I chose to do red light therapy for 40 minutes with stretching - I figure that thousands of years of yoga practice settled on a good time requirement for red light exposure via its sun salutations.ritual I don't know yoga but my tai chi practice has 10 stretches that I do for 4 minutes each. and I have heard that the first 40 minutes of sunlight is gives the best health benefit. alas I'm to lazy to wake up for sunrise but at least there are red light panels for the slow to rise
By using pulsing you decrease the build up/heating effect(which was proven to decrease the lights absorption) while keeping the same penetration/power of light.
Eventually, I'll buy a full body panel, for now I have a small panel, i aim for 10-20mins every night before bed. I recently bought the Kineon for my lower back. I didn't like the positioning of the lights on my back, so i bought velcro straps and made my own belt.
I had an omnilux mask tgat stopped working and have been watching your videos on masks vs panels and convinced panels are the way to go. Just won’t if you think the nitro pro 300 is a better choice than pulsating mayasana? Thank you❤
Because it does work (and their is tons of science to prove that it works) - ua-cam.com/video/7TYWriLoY2k/v-deo.html My point is that it's very hard to come up with dosing protocols.
I don’t know why you spend so much time and energy trying to figure out how much energy each panel puts out - that’s largely irrelevant. You only need to measure how much incident energy there is at the target (averaged over the target area) at a given distance.
most skin surface area just needs 4-8 joules for benefits per studies, whereas deep tissue results is max 40-50 joules per day. Makes it tough to achieve ideal joules for each
Hey, yeah I'm doing my best! It will be out March at the latest, hopefully feb. There is a lot of material we need to sort through (otherwise it will be a 4 hour epic!!)
@@LightTherapyInsiders thanks for replying to a otherwise pretty rude comment. Do you recommend the wider mito light or the narrow one? I plan on buying one panel to start and maybe buying more in future. Which one you recommend for full body as a decently big guy I’m tall but not super wide around 1.92cm sorry no good conversion but I think it’s around 6.2. Don’t know if you use imperial or metric.
I think you’re way over-complicating this. As an engineer, here is how I would approach this. First it seems clear to me that the optimal dose has to be empirically determined so first you need to determine what biomarkers or metrics are you going to assess to determine the optimal dose (this may be the most complicated aspect). Once you’ve determined what metrics you are going to measure, then just pick a panel (this becomes your reference panel) and determine the test setup - ie what body area is to be illuminated and at what distance. Then all you need to do is measure the incident light energy at various points across the body cross section that you are illuminating and do a spatial average (or integrate the total incident energy). You don’t need to know or care how much the panel is actually emitting (and over what angular spread) - only what is the incident energy on the body at your given distance. At a high level, I would just like to know if this therapy has accumulating benefits (more time gives more positive results), or if it’s a hormetic effect, then there’s probably some time/exposure past which you are doing more harm than good. Once you’ve made a determination with your reference panel, then you can adjust for any other panel by adjusting for it’s output/area/angular coverage relative to your reference panel - this should be just math.
Hey, yes I see how that approach would work well. The issue is this point - first you need to determine what biomarkers or metrics are you going to assess to determine the optimal dose A lot of these metrics require blood work, or some serious medical scans, biopsys etc. I guess what I am trying to do is work backwards - I want to look at what the scientific community has found (when using these precise forms of testing), what their recommendation was (joules, wavelengths, frequency of use) and then applying that information to a panel. It's not the best approach, but that is the angle I have come at this from. Saying that - if you're just looking at things that can be easily measured (lets say blood pressure, from someone with hypertension) then yeah, you could do your own experiment and over time come up with a good dosage protocol.
The thing is the majority of consumers simply won't be anywhere knowledgeable enough about all the different wavelengths etc. Or anywhere clever enough at maths calculations etc to determine the correct dosage! New Rojo Refine series looks like a big step up for red light therapy panels. With 10 accurate preset modes already built in for - Inflamation, skin repair, muscle recovery, collagen repair, fat loss, sleep, wound heal, Nerve, Bone & Joint, Pets. I've got a torn shoulder from a fall and some nerve pain from a couple of falls on my hip. Started collagen peptides and light resistance band exercises to get stronger. The Rojo Refine 180 I've just ordered will make it very easy to accurately treat those areas.
Check out all the resources I mention in my red light therapy dosing video, as well as other light therapy resources:
✅ Join the epic Alex Fergus & Light Therapy Insiders Facebook group here: aferg.co/fb-group
✅ My shopping tool where you can compare all the products on the market and get the best deal: aferg.co/product-database
✅ Full playlist of my 2022 body panel red light therapy comparison series with all episodes: aferg.co/RLT-2021-playlist - check the summary towards the end if you're short on time
✅ My Excel sheet for comparing different panels to their competition: aferg.co/rlt-data
✅ For my red light therapy buyer's guide, follow this link: aferg.co/RLTguide
✅ My red light testing methodology for reviews video: aferg.co/rlt-testing-method
✅ My red light therapy blog with many deep dive articles: aferg.co/redlightblog
✅ My James Carroll interview: aferg.co/carroll-interview
✅ My red light therapy through clothes video: aferg.co/clothing
Alex, thanks for posting this video; I find all of your content to be valuable and very helpful. On the topic of dosing and maximum treatment time per day, I note that if you have a full-body panel and get 5 minutes' of exposure on the front of your body, the cells on that half of the body have received a certain number of joules of energy depending on the output of the panels and the distance (and other factors). For example, assume that this treatment gives 45 joules of exposure. However, if you have a smaller panel with the same specifications as the full panel and treat a smaller body area for the same time at the same distance, that area of the body has also received the same 45 joules of exposure. If I repeat this treatment enough times on the front of my body to cover all of the same areas as would be covered by a full-body panel, it might take 4 separate treatments. In those 4 treatments, each body area has received 45 joules, but the total body exposure is 4 x 45 joules = 180 joules, which exceeds the recommendations I have seen (Ari Whitten's book) of 120 joules "per session". I understand that dosing is not an exact science, but the fundamental question is whether or not applying RLT to multiple smaller body areas in a day results in a cumulative body exposure that exceeds recommendations for total daily exposure. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
I would love to know the answer to this as well!
Very honest and straightforward video. Thank you for sharing!
Age 82 with a.Diagnosis of osteopenia and bone on bone in both knees. My intent is to grow stem cells and at first I thought I’d follow the protocol used in the study on knees. Now, I think it’s best to take it gradually and make increases based on my bodily responses. There are many variables here, even season variations. Sometimes I may tolerate less or more.
Good luck! Please keep us updated
Just got my 7 wavelength panel, this is very informative and helpful, thanks Alex!
Glad it was helpful!
Skin reflection issue. Gembared says “Reflection Compensation: Estimate about 60% of the light intensity will be reflected from the skin. So multiply your intensity by 0.4 or multiply the exposure time by 2.5 as a rough compensation.”
And ““So standing any significant distance away from a red light panel will result massive losses due to skin reflection alone!
The NIST database of skin reflectance spectrum measurements shows a skin reflectance on average of about 60% in white skin around 660nm to 850nm! This is very high!””
That means that to properly compute a dose in Joules/cm2 we would multiply the number of seconds by 2.5, agree AF?
Hey.
Yes another variable to add to the complex equation.
And it just reinforces my point - why it's so different to calculate dosing figures from panels.
I personally don't even bother. I just do what has been helping me for years now, and thats about 5-10mins each side stadning about 4-6 inches from my panel. i do this 4-5x a week.
In your blog post you said, that you only need a low intensity and duration for anti-aging, wrinkles etc for the skin, longer sessions will have no/zero effect. I don't understand that: the skin benefits from red light therapy for the first 60 seconds (just for the example), then later the deeper tissue. So what is the difference between 60 seconds and 5 minutes for the skin? The initial first 60 seconds will have a positive effect for the skin anyway or? Why should there be zero effect in total if you do it longer than those 60 seconds?
I do.
Stick to 3 minutes on the eyes with joy.What's directly looking inthe mathen?I'll close my eyes do more of the front and then turn around and do the back for as long as I feel like
Thanks for sharing your protocol.
Hello, so your question got me thinking and I Google Scholar (ed) until I found the term "Arndt-Schultz law". Which essentially was as close an answer as anyone willing to hedge. "For many years, this Arndt-Schultz law has been used as a convenient concept to explain the cellular and tissue interactions with light." This quote is in a paper called "Review of light parameters and photobiomodulation efficacy: dive into complexity" ( I will link). I will post the conclusions here as the paper is dense and the conclusions are sort of funny.
1. Cells with higher numbers of mitochondria respond better to PBM than cells with lower numbers of mitochondria.
2. Ineffective studies on cells with higher numbers of mitochondria are as likely to be due to over-dosing as they are to under-dosing.
3. It is less likely that ineffective studies in cells with lower numbers of mitochondria will be due to over-dosing.
4. The fluence delivered is more important in determining the success or failure of an in vitro study than the irradiance employed.
5. Tissues with higher numbers of mitochondria tend to be deeper within the body than tissues with lower numbers of mitochondria, therefore, over-dosing is less likely.
6. Ineffective studies in vivo are more likely to be due to under-dosing regardless of the number of mitochondria.
I have MS and am using photo modulation to reduce inflammation and limit my disease progression. My fingers are crossed and if my skin glows while I heal, so be it. The paper is in the Journal of Biomedical Optics, a paper in the NIH from 2018. There may be newer studies to help us figure this out. Thanks for your videos and knowledge. It has been so helpful.
(link). www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8355782/
Thank You so much for sharing this information. I hope you find RLT beneficial. Keep me posted.
There are full body clinical studies on Pub Med that we can refer to get a sense of dosing protocols. To simply suggest that people stand six inches from their high intensity 90 - 100 mW/cm^2 panels doesn't take into account the science of dosing responsibly. While we may not have exact milliwatt numbers, we know that none of the studies using full body non-contact devices on Pub Med used anything over 50 miliwatt per square centimeter. In fact, some successfully used just 18 - 30 mW/cm^2. Another thing to take into account is that men and women have different skin thickness, so what might work for a 6 foot 2 man may be too much for the average woman.
Thank You for your feedback.
Does Pulsing actually work or is it just a marketing gimmick like PlatinumLED suggests it is, or are they just saying that because they don't offer it? Thoughts? Please advise...
According to Dr. Hamblin and Dr. Huberman, pulsing is thought to work because different frequencies of light (10hz and 40hz) resonate with alpha and gamma brain waves and because the light is being delivered to the body at those frequencies the beneficial effects are more pronounced. Platinum and others are against pulsing because they erroneously associate LED pulsing with pulsing that was associated with lasers to reduce the heat coefficient factor of a continuous wave laser. Same word, but two entirely different applications.
Can you please tell me where I can find the video you mentioned that talks about what good effects you’ve experienced from using rlt? Thank you
ua-cam.com/video/7A4QChe8mcQ/v-deo.html
Hi Alex, can you recommend a product on a budget? I am in the UK and want to try it for long covid recovery and chronic fatigue. I dont have the money to buy a full body panel. Will a smaller device under 500£ do?
Yes. Hooga.
Or try Block Blue Light - they have local UK shipping and good prices (plus discount code ALEX saves you 15%)
Hooga…. Yesss or nooooooo??
Alex has some videos testing hooga. My brother decided to get the hooga tabletop and he is very happy with it.
Yes. ua-cam.com/video/u7UaydnogcA/v-deo.html
Alex, very interesting comments on reflection! Here's my idea. I study automotive lighting photometry enhancement for many years. These panels definitely need a proper reflective surface, & people should really build their own 45degree arc reflectors for the sides. (Sort of the shape of a clock time between 12 & 3 and 12 & 9). Also the same for behind your body but a 180 degree parabolic reflector. The most reflective coating is pure silver at 98% which is expensive & will oxidize in open air but used in telescopes, & microscopes but is sealed with an inert gas.
High quality mirrors are also silver plated....
The most common reflector material is pure aluminum with a LRV (light reflectance value) of about 93%. You will want a dull reflective surface, not shinny to evenly distribute the light back to the body. I would simply use high quality cooking aluminum foil & use the dull side, not the shinny side. I would also place this over the panel & cut out holes around the LED & use rubber cement to lightly coat the panel to stick the foil too or other release adhesive in order to change out foil since Aluminum Foil will eventually micro-oxidize & loose reflectance, just not sure if Red Light wavelengths will accelerate it, or not, but a coat of SIO2 or general sealer car wax will help.
They also make aluminum foil tape used in construction industry, but it will have to be burnished with 000, 00 Steel Wool to make it dull.
Finally, the most reflective coating is Barium Sulfate & Purdue University is working on putting it in paint to paint commercial buildings to lower global warming.
It is also the gold standard coating used in Lab Integrating Test Spears. (Integrating Sphere Radiometry and Photometry).
You can easily buy lab grade Barium Sulfate powder & mix it into your own paint or use a flat white spray paint & dry-dust it into the semi wet paint for ultimate reflectance! The study from Purdue however uses multiple sized micron particles of Barium Sulfate.
Now, I hope all your LED mfgs send me free panels for this design tip, or a check$$$ for using my idea! "Prior Art" Declared!
Also, a person commented below about using Grow Tent Mylar. Not sure what is made from, but if its Chromium like chrome, its only 65% reflectance value LRV. I wonder what those large light diffuser parabollic reflector umbrellas use for their coatings for professional photography?🤔
Wow.
This is wayyy over my head, but it sounds very interesting!
Curious - what are you doing for work now?
If you ever wanted to write some blog articles on this topic (or anything else related to RLT) I'd happily pay you for your work! Flick me a message if so. Email address is in the About section on my YT channel.
In my estimation, for powerful biomax900 for most superficial skin benefits would be around 60 seconds per area from 18” away (8 j/cm2)
AND for deep tissue and injury healing: 70 joules of dose = 438 seconds at 12” away (7.3 minutes at 12”)
Yeah, I think you may be on to something here.
Hi there, would you mind explaining how you got these numbers and parameters? Ive purchased a MitoPro Max 300 and would like to know how I can achieve max benefits for acne scarring, fine lines and wrinkles, and collagen production.
An error in my calculation is likely that it does not take into account light reflection off the skin. Gembared says to multiply time by 2.5 to account for reflection. Alex, what is your opinion on the reflection issue? Agree with gembared?
Your honesty is refreshing. Everything has a context. Always. The non black-and-white answers you give make it clear you’re a REAL expert. Thank you!
Bro Science says proper dosing is the most you can handle til it hurts or you get some other unwanted side effect lol.
Pretty much. More is always better right.
Actually though - it is one way to determine a good dose, use too much until you see damage. Stop, recover. Next time, do less. Keep working down until you aren't getting hurt.
I dont' recommend this approach btw. But I guess there is some benefit right.
Still can take time to process the light. Just sitting there until it hurts is kinda irrelevant nor effective when there are factors like time in how the light is processed
You do know Science is not a living being. So it can not say. Now there are many scientist. Getting them all to agree on something though. Would be a feat!
That's actually incorrect - DNA breakdown happens way before any symptoms appear
This study showed that the dose is cumulative and need to be mindful of over dosing
ua-cam.com/video/nr7Edk9HpVw/v-deo.htmlsi=oQjMPDEnMyfcpMLU
Informative video, I tend to disagree with the "lost light' comments because of distance, shape, size. Back in the days when people actually went outside and got sufficient light, distance from sun rarely changed, beam angle, clothes, scars, moisture, skin tone and other factors you mentioned in my view are not relevant...the body is smart, put a light in front of it and it will take what it needs, we didn't all walk to the top of a pyramid and bath ourselves in sun (maybe we did!). Too much science, confusing people with different variables is only going to confuse people and send them in other directions, hence your concluding comments. Don't forget the placebo effect #powerful
Yeah fair point!
All the time, 24/7 like Martians from the Red Planet & made them Super Smart!!!!👽 LoL.....!🤔
Hey Alex, Great work. Do you have any videos or advice you could point me to for the aging population and red light therapy for the eyes?
Not yet, but we are working on this.
Another factor is I've heard of studies that would treat someone's hand and they would show improvement in the brain. The TLDR on this is they found mitochondria can leave the cell and float in the blood and other areas receive benefit. So dosing a target area like a knee may be hard but dosing your chest or back could help your knee. Makes you wonder if you should target the meaty areas of the body to target the most mitochondria.
Excellent video that clears up that wee do not know a lot about redlight. Just that it works!! I think there are too many shots of Alex using the Red Light with his clothes on.. Sitting in front of a panel with your clothes on is not going to give you an effective treatment. Most of the time you need bare skin. A dark shirt does not cut it.
Hey, yeah my video editor shot a lot of content with me using the panel -and yes a lot of this footage is of me in clothes.
Next time round I'll do more shirtless shots etc.
I better tighten up my diet :P
Ask an engineer who has taken the course of illumination, he or she can give you a guesstimate number based on calculations with assumptions. There is digital simulation software to calculate. This is not rocket science and we don’t need that accurate calculation. Please don’t complicate engineering calculations. the difficulty is to quantify the effect and benefits on human body. I can’t agree with you more: We don’t know. We hope it works we wish it works, we feel like it’s working, we test on ourselves.
If I am wearing goggles on my eyes, does the red light therapy still get into the back of my eye - thank you
Sorry have big hands and dupytrens, but the obvious is missed translation of wavelengths is surely much more efficient that way we could increase efficiency c of red light by foil and even use a particle surface to create red light reflect or trabsnutation of non red ie even blue obvious, reflector is the obvious upgrade, lasers seem much more efficient also ie coherent and easier tl control but pot dangerous intensity only affects oebetration and not bio molecular effect which is according to planks constant totally dependent on wavelength and nothing to do with intensity, so here is the basic science, frequency is everything we still do not understand this a broad iscikating red from 600 to 800 znd check on cellular functioning woukkd help.
Hi Alex i recently brought a rlt panel after coming across your channel im using it for my back pain but my daughter wants to use it for her face is this safe?
I want to use the infrared panel while I am in the sauna. But I don't want to put the panel in the Sauna, therefore I thought that I can place it behind the sauna glass. Doest glass affect the infrared light? How far away can I sit and still have all the benefits? What would you choose if your budget is around 700€ for this use?
Not sure that this is a good idea. First of all: red light does penetrate glass. That why you can see red through glass. It is visible light. Infra should be the same or similar.
There are dedicated unfrared saunas that you can by with led panels instead of a heater built in.
I understand you want to sit in a regular heated sauna and then additionally shine the infrared onto yourself?
I reckon this could be too much. And the heat from the sauna could mask any unwanted effects from the IR/Redlight. You might not be able to tell, when you have had enough/too much IR/Redlight, when you are already sitting in intense heat.
Also, a sauna heater, as any natural heat source, already also emits infra red radiation. So you will have higher dosage with no idea if it is benefiting or harming you.
Thank you for your answer! So no red light while enjoing the Sauna. :)
So if it is only for the face, it will be better to buy a mask? The distance, strength etc. it all be there nothing to adjust I guess. What do you think?
Check this out - ua-cam.com/video/sYymkkfIVLY/v-deo.html
So, I was using the Joov from a Spa clinic at 15-20 mins @ 1-2” away, for this is what they instructed me. Went twice a week - Tuesday/Friday for about 20 sessions. Well, I started to notice I was getting a headache on my right side, nausea, diarrhea, intense hunger, just to name a few. Keep in mind, I wasn’t changing anything in my diet or supplement routine. I am 43 and about 95 lbs. very slender. Was this too much exposure?? I just bought my Platinum LED today Biomax 900 to use at home. I’m super excited, but nervous these symptoms will start again. I want the benefits, so what would a good regimen be? Is there a formula for correct dosage for maximum benefits? Thanks Kindly!
Hey, I think 1-2 inches for 20 minutes is too much to start with. The BioMax is a powerful panel; I would start with just a few minutes, approximately 12-18 inches away from the panel. Slowly increase the time and lessen the distance from the panel. Check out my Facebook group; many members there will share what works for them.facebook.com/groups/lighttherapyinsiders
The obvious.
So on the obvious the Sunlight red effect is partly due to reflection and transmission which turns blue and uv into red light. All these other wavelengths Must have a bio electric effect ie frequency creates plank humps in electron orbital tggis is thhe Q mech effect of light and how the body has evolved I presume ie lizards shelter or heat up on rocks rimmed converting uv to red works for them, could we do this a light source then use a reflector to change it to red or modify it so the wavelength is miduklated by the surface reflector?
Excuse typos.
I like that when you said do it till you're sick of it.That's what I do.That's the protocol
Yes, no need to continue if you would rather be elsewhere!
REFLECTIO - EFFICIENCY.
So the obvious why not use Reichian reflection ie a thin aluminium foil blanket or similar would increase efficiency far higher!
My interpretation of the data is that there is no one-size-fits-all optimal dose. The dose depends on the tissue being targeted. Cells with more mitochondria require different dosages, targeting deep tissue requires a different dose compared to skin... and if you're targeting deep tissue, you're going to overdose the skin above it.
My conclusion was essentially the same as yours - there's no accessible way to determine proper dosage, so... To paraphrase Michael Pollan "Use light. Not too much. Mostly red."
I can't find the video with the large panel that had a stand to be vertical and could also be turned to be horizontal over the body while laying down...Could you please direct me to this product?
This one?
ua-cam.com/video/6US32hF6msY/v-deo.htmlsi=S2V4v0-EkpIPdVJ8
@@LightTherapyInsiders Yes, thank you!!
After doing a 20min session on my back this morning I got a blister and wonder if it was because I’ve been doing it too long? I’ve been doing it everyday. 10-20 min on my back since Jan 1st and at a close distance. Also last night I applied a cream on my back and forgot to remove this morning before RLT. What do y’all think?
What are the Ruby red light panels like. Not as many bells and whistles, but do the job?
thank you so much, Alex! Super useful info, just watched a bunch if your videos and you've demystified everything and really helped me to pick a panel!
Glad it was helpful!
Alex thanks for tackling such a difficult topic. What I used to inform my stab at a dosing time is the sun salutations of yoga, the ritual of sun salutations has 12 poses that last 3 to 4 minutes each pose, for a total time (36-48 minutes). Thus I chose to do red light therapy for 40 minutes with stretching - I figure that thousands of years of yoga practice settled on a good time requirement for red light exposure via its sun salutations.ritual I don't know yoga but my tai chi practice has 10 stretches that I do for 4 minutes each. and I have heard that the first 40 minutes of sunlight is gives the best health benefit. alas I'm to lazy to wake up for sunrise but at least there are red light panels for the slow to rise
This is interesting, Thank you for sharing!
By using pulsing you decrease the build up/heating effect(which was proven to decrease the lights absorption) while keeping the same penetration/power of light.
Thats it
Eventually, I'll buy a full body panel, for now I have a small panel, i aim for 10-20mins every night before bed. I recently bought the Kineon for my lower back. I didn't like the positioning of the lights on my back, so i bought velcro straps and made my own belt.
Ahh very cool!
And 2nd question: for the calculation: do I use the solar meter or spectro meter values? Cause it’s always quite a big difference
spectrometer
I had an omnilux mask tgat stopped working and have been watching your videos on masks vs panels and convinced panels are the way to go. Just won’t if you think the nitro pro 300 is a better choice than pulsating mayasana? Thank you❤
Yeah I haven't used the mayasana sorry - Mitored make great panels though :)
Which glasses are you using for the red light panels alex? Anything special ? The smaller ones look cool
I occasionally wear goggles, but typically I don't so I can't recommend one.
Alex! What do you think of the maysama pulsed red light device? I’d appreciate your opinion! Great videos! Keep up the good work ❤
Thanks. Sorry I haven't used their panels yet.
So why use it? Kinda like hydrogen water in the way that no recommendation even though they have many bits of science.
Because it does work (and their is tons of science to prove that it works) - ua-cam.com/video/7TYWriLoY2k/v-deo.html
My point is that it's very hard to come up with dosing protocols.
I heard something where you are only supposed to do red light therapy 4 months out of the year and then stop to heal
This is news to me.
I'm going to use crp before red light & 1 month after using 20 minutes perr day.
Let me know how you get on.
I don’t know why you spend so much time and energy trying to figure out how much energy each panel puts out - that’s largely irrelevant. You only need to measure how much incident energy there is at the target (averaged over the target area) at a given distance.
Yes, i try and do this in my reviews.
He does measure both? Am i missing something
What a load😂 of
load of?
Whats wrong with the video?
most skin surface area just needs 4-8 joules for benefits per studies, whereas deep tissue results is max 40-50 joules per day. Makes it tough to achieve ideal joules for each
Yes. Splitting the treatment may be the best approach.
Can you clarify? How would you split the sessions?
thanks for nothing
If you have the answers please share them. My point is its too hard to make recommendations given all the variables.
You forgot the most important part. The tin-foil hat. Without that, the rest is pointless.
ua-cam.com/video/7TYWriLoY2k/v-deo.html
Found the junky clown who sits on his ass all day
Thanks for asking the tough questions.
:)
Clear as mud
pretty much.
Yeah pretty useless. You don’t even really share the specs of your own protocol 😂😂😂
Or did you? Maybe before I fell asleep lol
Can you work harder on getting the comparison video out. Sorry for being an arse but I really need to see the newer panels compared before I buy one.
Hey, yeah I'm doing my best! It will be out March at the latest, hopefully feb. There is a lot of material we need to sort through (otherwise it will be a 4 hour epic!!)
@@LightTherapyInsiders thanks for replying to a otherwise pretty rude comment. Do you recommend the wider mito light or the narrow one? I plan on buying one panel to start and maybe buying more in future. Which one you recommend for full body as a decently big guy I’m tall but not super wide around 1.92cm sorry no good conversion but I think it’s around 6.2. Don’t know if you use imperial or metric.
Get the widest one you can afford. The MitoHacker is good - and my review will be out next week@@0hleg
I think you’re way over-complicating this. As an engineer, here is how I would approach this. First it seems clear to me that the optimal dose has to be empirically determined so first you need to determine what biomarkers or metrics are you going to assess to determine the optimal dose (this may be the most complicated aspect). Once you’ve determined what metrics you are going to measure, then just pick a panel (this becomes your reference panel) and determine the test setup - ie what body area is to be illuminated and at what distance. Then all you need to do is measure the incident light energy at various points across the body cross section that you are illuminating and do a spatial average (or integrate the total incident energy). You don’t need to know or care how much the panel is actually emitting (and over what angular spread) - only what is the incident energy on the body at your given distance. At a high level, I would just like to know if this therapy has accumulating benefits (more time gives more positive results), or if it’s a hormetic effect, then there’s probably some time/exposure past which you are doing more harm than good. Once you’ve made a determination with your reference panel, then you can adjust for any other panel by adjusting for it’s output/area/angular coverage relative to your reference panel - this should be just math.
Hey, yes I see how that approach would work well.
The issue is this point - first you need to determine what biomarkers or metrics are you going to assess to determine the optimal dose
A lot of these metrics require blood work, or some serious medical scans, biopsys etc. I guess what I am trying to do is work backwards - I want to look at what the scientific community has found (when using these precise forms of testing), what their recommendation was (joules, wavelengths, frequency of use) and then applying that information to a panel.
It's not the best approach, but that is the angle I have come at this from.
Saying that - if you're just looking at things that can be easily measured (lets say blood pressure, from someone with hypertension) then yeah, you could do your own experiment and over time come up with a good dosage protocol.
The thing is the majority of consumers simply won't be anywhere knowledgeable enough about all the different wavelengths etc. Or anywhere clever enough at maths calculations etc to determine the correct dosage!
New Rojo Refine series looks like a big step up for red light therapy panels. With 10 accurate preset modes already built in for - Inflamation, skin repair, muscle recovery, collagen repair, fat loss, sleep, wound heal, Nerve, Bone & Joint, Pets.
I've got a torn shoulder from a fall and some nerve pain from a couple of falls on my hip. Started collagen peptides and light resistance band exercises to get stronger.
The Rojo Refine 180 I've just ordered will make it very easy to accurately treat those areas.
Hi! @@C--A How are you getting on with the refine?