Matt, where and what is that crack route you show around 4:40 ? Looks gorgeous and will go straight into my list of goals, and it'd give that lockdown training a purpose :) Thanks for all the awesomeness!
I think the trad grading system is excellent. How can there be a VS 5b? Go and do the Direct Route on the Mot nose and you'll find out. The 5b is one move off a ledge with a bomber nut above your head, so it doesn't push the adjectival grade, which describes overall seriousness (of which difficulty is an important part) above VS.
Back in 80' s alot of grit trad grades were hangovers from when protection was limited to fairly crude hex nuts and threads. By 80's full rack of wires and cams were available, Result was danger was not really part of the equation a Severe could be a total stitch-up of runners or a 20 foot slab to first placement and 15 to the top. above a jumble of pointy rocks
Stephen O'Fee just like the Yosemite grade, it goes from 1 - flat walking, 2 - easy scramble that might occasionally use hands, 3 - scramble that hands are required, 4 - scramble with exposure, 5 - vertical rock climbing. And then you go to the 5.xx grading system. Similar idea.
@@stephenofee8258 This is a great piece of information that really helps clear things up. Do you have any idea where "vertical climbing" might actually start on the adjectival scale?
The grading system originated in the late 19th Century when with primitive climbing gear, poor/no-existent belaying technique or belays climbs graded “Difficult”, “Very Difficult” or “Severe” were considered exactly that (I don’t think anything was graded “Very Severe” till the 1900s - in fact most guide books did not recognise any grade harder than VS till the mid 50s, even though there were climbs now recognised to be several grades harder!).
Man I wish it was graded like this everywhere. It would be much easier for beginners to get into trad climbing "safely". I've only just started and I've got myself in some situations that I wouldn't have if there was some sort of indication of the difficulty at the time of placing the gear or if it's possible at all. It's easier to check from the ground but when you're higher up or on a multipitch is where it gets trickier
Adjectival is the word you're looking for Matt. Don't know how you managed to bugger that one up, it's not like we haven't all had enough time on our hands recently; basic research error. At least this seems to have less glaring errors than you ice tool videos.
Abjectional is certainly a word. This is English we're talking about here. "Not a word" only applies to proper gibberish. "Abjectional" would mean something like "having or inducing the property of being abject". Perhaps describing Mr. Groom's mood of late.
One I've done, and liked, was HS 5a, an unusual grade combination, single move in a place where the consequences were actually pretty bad but the rest was easy and made a fun quirky route I'm likely to do again. Oh, and it's tradition to solo it.
Speaking as a US climber I can really appreciate this. In the US you have no way of knowing about "seriousness" beyond the "movie ratings" (PG-13, R, X) which are by no means mandatory parts of a route grade and generally only appear when there's some scary climbing to be done.
Do not forget when climbing on Yorkshire Grit they add a P Grade which if I remember correctly is P1 to P4 and that tells you how good the protection is and potential injury 😅😅
You missed Easy! I've only ever found one mind. Also E3 5b (and equivalent) can mean many things - It could be 5b moves for nearly the entire route.- eg Ocean Boulevard. Or quite scary and a significant amount of 5b - Krapps Last Tape. Or a total solo with 5b moves at a significant height - loads of these! Its a sliding scale and the grade never really tells the full story. Looking at the route, reading the guide and knowing the grade will get you a pretty decent idea though
Problem i got in Germany is they use Uiaa grades for Sport climbs, as alot has been developed here, however i can never tell what grades they are when i climb them trad as there is no corralation between the two, so when i climb an VIII+ but there are as many placements as there are bolts what grade am i climbing?
Usually there is a verbal description in the guide book. “Great protection, lots of glue-in bolts”, “Rusty old pitons, widely spaced”, “Only top bolted, small nuts and cams required”. The UIAA grade is really only about technical difficulty, not about subjective or objective danger.
Fairly simple, climb sport routes using only pro and anything above E5 is completely insane. I think England accounts for about 99% of all X rated routes on the planet. Oh ground fall potential from the crux on an E8?, 25M off the deck, no need for a bolt lads...
Jamie E we don’t bolt it because our grit and sandstone is too soft to bolt, bolts would just destroy the rock and fall out after a couple of falls anyway
This should have come with a previous that if you do not know trad grades you should not try to attempt anything above a hs grades unit you understand how to place gear properly
I have not climbed Trad much (simply due to the cost, I can't afford it all at once) but I would like to know more about it. In fact there are sport routes that I have climbed that seriously need more protection, but I wouldn't have a clue how to place it. What if you walked us through your gear, explained what pieces would be good to start buying one by one, and the general idea about how to place it. Would you also go over nuts? Everyone seems to have them, but I don't get why or how they are used. Maybe you could find examples from the internet, or practice placing gear around the house.
I like your show and am using it to keep my chin up at the moment... however, you really do need to respond with an abject apology for repeatedly using that word that a few have already mentioned. How long have you been out of the UK? It's adjectival everbody. Adjectival.
Still much better system than anything else out there, simply because of the amount of information you can figure out from the combination of the two grades (once you understand them)
English trad is the cockney accent among the climbings grades
We need this system in Australia! All we get in the guide book is "a bit run out"!!
Couldn't agree more
nice to see someone else writes the dates in the box rather than just ticks it :)
Matt, where and what is that crack route you show around 4:40 ? Looks gorgeous and will go straight into my list of goals, and it'd give that lockdown training a purpose :) Thanks for all the awesomeness!
I was also under the impression that the technical grade described the most difficult move OR moves on the climb
@ 2.05 Adjectival not Abjectional !!
Objectionable?
It's like this mate: On limestone, it's "E" for effort, on grit, it's "E" for extermination...
I think the trad grading system is excellent. How can there be a VS 5b? Go and do the Direct Route on the Mot nose and you'll find out. The 5b is one move off a ledge with a bomber nut above your head, so it doesn't push the adjectival grade, which describes overall seriousness (of which difficulty is an important part) above VS.
Back in 80' s alot of grit trad grades were hangovers from when protection was limited to fairly crude hex nuts and threads. By 80's full rack of wires and cams were available, Result was danger was not really part of the equation a Severe could be a total stitch-up of runners or a 20 foot slab to first placement and 15 to the top. above a jumble of pointy rocks
Gr8 vid thanks for this lots of help
Very difficult is the 3rd least severe grade? I feel like it could do with a rework!
Mark Christiansen if I remember (I’m old enough to actually remember this stuff) the bottom grades were scrambling/ non-vertical stuff.
@@stephenofee8258 Thank you that makes a decent bit of sense.
Stephen O'Fee just like the Yosemite grade, it goes from 1 - flat walking, 2 - easy scramble that might occasionally use hands, 3 - scramble that hands are required, 4 - scramble with exposure, 5 - vertical rock climbing. And then you go to the 5.xx grading system. Similar idea.
@@stephenofee8258 This is a great piece of information that really helps clear things up. Do you have any idea where "vertical climbing" might actually start on the adjectival scale?
The grading system originated in the late 19th Century when with primitive climbing gear, poor/no-existent belaying technique or belays climbs graded “Difficult”, “Very Difficult” or “Severe” were considered exactly that (I don’t think anything was graded “Very Severe” till the 1900s - in fact most guide books did not recognise any grade harder than VS till the mid 50s, even though there were climbs now recognised to be several grades harder!).
Man I wish it was graded like this everywhere. It would be much easier for beginners to get into trad climbing "safely". I've only just started and I've got myself in some situations that I wouldn't have if there was some sort of indication of the difficulty at the time of placing the gear or if it's possible at all. It's easier to check from the ground but when you're higher up or on a multipitch is where it gets trickier
English trad grades definitely offer a climber a fuller picture of how serious a route is, especially when you start out.
I can’t believe you put this out with “abjectional” repeatedly used. Please correct it to adjectival. Otherwise it’s objectionable ;-)
He doesn't actually know anything about Grades at all! (Snigger snigger).
Adjectival is the word you're looking for Matt. Don't know how you managed to bugger that one up, it's not like we haven't all had enough time on our hands recently; basic research error. At least this seems to have less glaring errors than you ice tool videos.
Adjectival, like adjective, it describes the route, not abjectional 😊
Adjective, as in descriptive, of its dangers and scariness. That's the point. Not Abjectional (not a word)
Abjectional is certainly a word. This is English we're talking about here. "Not a word" only applies to proper gibberish. "Abjectional" would mean something like "having or inducing the property of being abject". Perhaps describing Mr. Groom's mood of late.
One I've done, and liked, was HS 5a, an unusual grade combination, single move in a place where the consequences were actually pretty bad but the rest was easy and made a fun quirky route I'm likely to do again. Oh, and it's tradition to solo it.
Not easy to find something to say or to shoot while being locked at home. Well done guys ! Keep going and stay safe.
Speaking as a US climber I can really appreciate this. In the US you have no way of knowing about "seriousness" beyond the "movie ratings" (PG-13, R, X) which are by no means mandatory parts of a route grade and generally only appear when there's some scary climbing to be done.
Do not forget when climbing on Yorkshire Grit they add a P Grade which if I remember correctly is P1 to P4 and that tells you how good the protection is and potential injury 😅😅
Personal favourite is Verandah buttress at Stanage Popular, HVD 5b
You missed Easy! I've only ever found one mind. Also E3 5b (and equivalent) can mean many things - It could be 5b moves for nearly the entire route.- eg Ocean Boulevard. Or quite scary and a significant amount of 5b - Krapps Last Tape. Or a total solo with 5b moves at a significant height - loads of these! Its a sliding scale and the grade never really tells the full story. Looking at the route, reading the guide and knowing the grade will get you a pretty decent idea though
im still a bit baffled by it. it makes good sense to have a specific system. in nz we just have the same for sport and trad.
I think you meant British Trad Grades. 😂
what is that book?
So I don’t trad Climb or climb outdoors at all (yet) but after watching this episode I wanna try it. That’s normal right
Problem i got in Germany is they use Uiaa grades for Sport climbs, as alot has been developed here, however i can never tell what grades they are when i climb them trad as there is no corralation between the two, so when i climb an VIII+ but there are as many placements as there are bolts what grade am i climbing?
And climbing trad adds at least a grade ontop for difficulty as placing gear in alot of Situations is alot more difficult than just clipping
Usually there is a verbal description in the guide book. “Great protection, lots of glue-in bolts”, “Rusty old pitons, widely spaced”, “Only top bolted, small nuts and cams required”. The UIAA grade is really only about technical difficulty, not about subjective or objective danger.
It's "British" traditional climbing grades, not English.
Fairplay, changed 😁
@@dailyclimbing If we are going to be pedantic we should probably say British and Irish
Fairly simple, climb sport routes using only pro and anything above E5 is completely insane. I think England accounts for about 99% of all X rated routes on the planet. Oh ground fall potential from the crux on an E8?, 25M off the deck, no need for a bolt lads...
Jamie E we don’t bolt it because our grit and sandstone is too soft to bolt, bolts would just destroy the rock and fall out after a couple of falls anyway
This should have come with a previous that if you do not know trad grades you should not try to attempt anything above a hs grades unit you understand how to place gear properly
What about Xs, XD ect
I have not climbed Trad much (simply due to the cost, I can't afford it all at once) but I would like to know more about it. In fact there are sport routes that I have climbed that seriously need more protection, but I wouldn't have a clue how to place it. What if you walked us through your gear, explained what pieces would be good to start buying one by one, and the general idea about how to place it. Would you also go over nuts? Everyone seems to have them, but I don't get why or how they are used. Maybe you could find examples from the internet, or practice placing gear around the house.
You missed MVS 😋
Don’t you mean adjective not objectionable?
If you think explaining cricket to Americans is difficult, try explaining British climbing grades to them!!
I like your show and am using it to keep my chin up at the moment... however, you really do need to respond with an abject apology for repeatedly using that word that a few have already mentioned. How long have you been out of the UK? It's adjectival everbody. Adjectival.
Why talk about tech grade and show the trad grade chart? seems misleading
I’m old enough to actually understand this system. 🤣🤣🤣
If the difference between "not that high" and "shocking or awful" is one grade, your system might be a little poorly balanced.
Still much better system than anything else out there, simply because of the amount of information you can figure out from the combination of the two grades (once you understand them)
Firrrst