I feel like intelligent weapons and their weilders could be a whole subset of therapy in a DnD-style world. To say nothing of warlocks and their patrons…
And this only covers his relationship with Craven Edge, I imagine his time spent with the Herd of Storms and the abuse from his Uncle Kevdak would deserve it’s own video!
Grog and pike is the purest relationship, best buddies. Addiction is an apt metaphor, in the original stream the sword kept him from sleeping and he didn't even notice it was obviously stealing his soul until after they got rid of it. He tried really hard to hold onto it because he thought he needed it to fight his uncle, one of my favorite Grog quotes that got cut was him telling Pike he didn't care how he died, so long as it was a beautiful death. But not to Kevdak, not him. Grog needed the sword to win, he didn't think he could on his own
For Grog, I think the moment where he impales Pike was ABSOLUTELY needed for him to fully find the strength of will to toss the sword away; Grog isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so spelling something out to him might sometimes require doing so in the most direct way possible. This horrifying moment not only made his biggest fears a reality, it made Grog realize two things: the very real danger that Craven Edge had to him and his comrades, and what Earthbreaker Groon meant about Craven Edge being "a reliance that proves your frailty". Grog had to do some serious character growth.
If I may ask, which were you? The victim or the perpetrator? You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable but I'm curious. P.S. if you were the victim you have my sympathy & Admiration for soldiering past that and climbing out of what your partner dug you into. If you were the perpetrator then I have MAD respect for you for turning that around for yourself because not a lot of people would do that.
I really hope Travis sees this. Brilliant cosplay. The Pike and Grog dynamic is one of the very best things in this show and the original campaign. And I love the way you expand on it and highlight why it’s so good.
If you tag him with a link he probably will. The entire CR cast is pretty responsive to fans, and Travis in particular likes reaction videos and often talks about them.
I love how Grog gets over this addiction. He finds the strength with his friends. Love the nails. Cat's Eye? Most places charge extra for those. Mine doesn't and I love Cat's Eye!
As someone who battled addiction in the past, Craven Edge reminds me of the part of my head that wanted to give in to desire. When you're addicted to something, it's scary how you can feel in control but aren't, it's like a cognitive dissonance where everyone else is voicing your doubts, you feel fine therefore you must be fine, and everyone else is wrong even if there is a nagging doubt in your head. I was unfortunate to become addicted to benzodiazepine, something I got to help treat some sleep issues, and before I realised it, I was addicted to it.
Yeah I was on opioids and xanax for half my life, been sober for three years now. I *still* can't think straight. I *still* don't feel like I have perfect control over myself, both in terms of behavior and in terms of how it feels to just move around. My brainfog is *still* pretty intense. My episodic memory is *still* unable to form new memories properly, and there's massive gaps of times in my life where I don't remember anything. A lot of my life, I know what happened in the same sense that I would know what happened to the main character of a book I read. I don't remember it happening, but I *know* that stuff did. It's really hard to explain to people who haven't gone through it.
That start 🤣 Interesting, I never thought of Craven Edge as an abusive relationship as I followed the tabletop campaign and saw it as an evil item that granted him power at a cost. However, seeing how LoVM presented it in the animation and how you analyzed it, you definitely see it and it always was.
I do miss that the rest of the party, particularly Percy, wasn't around to see off Craven Edge like in the actual play. The confrontation between the two of them was an auditory spectacle.
That is a great beard. Pike and Grogs relationship is one of the best. Grog choosing his love for his friends put a smile on my face. Wonderful analysis as alway. Have a great day.
Fantastic video! Grog and Craven Edge make the best worst pairing, and how he dealt with it in LoVM had so much more meaning than what they did in the actual play, imo. Like you said, he's now closer to figuring out the point that Earthbreaker Groon was trying to make, that the sword isn't what makes Grog strong. Also, the beard was a wonderful touch. :D
I adore your ability to meaningfully talk about issues that parallel 'weird' fictional constructs, like intelligent weapons with Ego scores. Also, your commitment to cosplay. HA.
Grog is basically a giant kid in the body of a half giant. He’s intelligence was chosen to be low by his player, Travis Willingham, mostly because this was Travis’ first DnD game and he wanted to make sure he didn’t get too much in the way. Craven Edge actually had a few full conversations with Grog. And they’re pretty hilarious. Mostly because this is a cursed artifact telling Grog to do bad things, and Grog, being a sweetheart, doesn’t always listen
Oh i love how u hit the nail on the head with the abusive realtions and addiction that Craven Edge gave to Grog. But i dont know if he didnt know its an evil weapon, i think its more that he is a simple dude, he didnt understand what it could mean for him when he used it. It was weiled by a vampire and both Gilmore and Earthbreaker Groon told him its a dark weapon, so he was warned, but with his inteligence, he didnt connect the dots until it was too late. And Craven Edge took not just Grogs strength. Grog is not the smartest, wisest. He does not have charm. All he had was brute force. So every time he faced a problem he used force to deal with it. Strength is his identity and thats what he lost. Like Grog said this is worse then death. And just on a fun side not, in the campaign, Craven Edge a actualy killed Grog. Pike had to resurect him and then break the swords hold on Grogs soul. And since u cant just break magical items that easy they disposed of Craven Edge in a pocked dimension.
Grog even had someone try to make him think about his weakness and addiction. The old monk kept asking "What is the source of your power?", he was trying to make Grog realize that Craven Edge wasn't the source of Grog's strength, Grog was.
The conversation with Craven Edge happens almost exactly as it did in the stream (Scanlan included), except it happened in a Whitestone outhouse. Twas a tad crampt. For the record, the effects of Craven Edge wear off after a short rest, and it *can* get full... but if it does, there's a chance it will kill its wielder the next time they try to use it. Grog had avoided resting for the sake of maxing it out, so he was exhausted when Cravy tried to eat him. Travis rolled a natural twenty for his saving throw, then realised it should be at disadvantage because of the exhaustion... and proceeded to roll a natural one. I can understand why they skipped his death in the accelerated timeline of the show, but now I expect he'll Hulk back out when he understands where his strength comes from, which is a bit... on the nose? One night, Vax got Grog really drunk, then shaved off *half* the beard as he slept. In the morning, Grog tried to fill it in by smearing charcoal across his face. Would half the beard have been easier?
I’ll definitely have to rewatch the season in one go once it’s all out so I can truly appreciate all this. Grog and his gnomes were definitely my personal favorite part of episodes 7-9 (though I’ll admit I’m biased since it was largely because of Scanlan specifically, I’m sorry, I can’t help it, he’s my fave 💜), these three are such a great family together and I love them ❤ Also excellent cosplay 👍
Man. I think everyone can relate to Grog in this arc. It feels like these days we've all been targeted by an insecure person who uses the tools their abuser used on them to manipulate you into sticking by them even when they're vicious. And it really does take a good platonic friend to get you through it.
My favorite part of these, other than learning stuff, is thinking of how she decides how to make the outfits. “Maybe some painting tape for the tattoos, I’ll need a beard… how do I make a sword?”
This discussion is exactly the reason I watch your videos! What a great opportunity to talk about some challenges or experiences that occurs with us through a more approachable medium like animation and tv.
Few fun facts just cause I like sharing them; when Matt Mercer was with the design team for the old man in the arena he wanted him to look like the ideal Street Fighter character, disciplined in both mind and body. In the campaign Travis (Grog) could not figure out the answer on where his strength came from so he just kept getting knocked around. The Stormlord is the god of honorable combat so it makes sense an arena would be a place of worship. I'd like to talk more about him but there's whispers of a show for campaign 2 coming and he plays a much more prominent role there.
Love this video, I hadn't considered Craven Edge as a parallel to an abuser or an addiction and it was great to see the analyze the show with through this perspective. Also I love the beard!
(Some spoilers below for later in the show than the point discussed in the video, careful internet strangers :) ) One key thing you touched on that I find most people lose in the relationship between craven edge and Grog is his physical vs emotional autonomy in the situation. It's such an important dynamic, so it's surprising that layer of nuance is lost on people. For the most part, Grog is fully conscious of what he is doing in a physical sense. He is not magically charmed or compelled (at least against his will) up until the events with Pike and Scanlan. He instead relinquishes control of his body embracing this hidden hubris inside of him, a darker bloodlust deep-seeded within him that we learn more about with his past life in the herd. This is egged on and taken advantage of by the sword, but the sword doesn't take full physical control until he rebels from what it wants him to be doing because it doesn't need to with its emotional puppet strings. As long as the sword is fed, it fulfills it's part of the bargain, giving the user immense strength and power. It's important to note that Sylas never seems to have much of a struggle with the sword in this way. This is likely because their goals alligned, him being a vampire that needed blood to survive and the sword also needing that same thing. Grog, however, has other goals and aspirations. Sure, he enjoys killing things, but he doesn't require blood, and has other time-consuming facets to his personal life as well. He is not the murderous half-giant he was before as depicted in the latter half of this batch of episodes, but rather a compassionate warrior who wants to protect people. This is where the two start to butt heads emotionally, and why the sword is choosing to isolate him into codependency instead of treating him like a trusted companion. Craven Edge cannot fathom having a host that would divert from its wishes, so instead of working together with him it chooses to systematically eliminate all threats to its rise to power. Doing so covertly is more important to it than anything, so it knows the best way of getting to grog is from a logical standpoint, because that's where his weakness truly lies. It uses his low intellect to fool him into an abusive relationship that even once realized is hard to overcome from an emotional standpoint. Great vid, and sorry this is so long why am I like this
Wielders of Cursed weapons like Craven Edge often role play them lying on the weapon’s behalf. There is no rule about it. But it makes for a nice story hook, the rest of the party slowly catching on to gradual change in their party member ever since picking up said weapon.
Dungeon Masters: Man, how do you roleplay an evil magical weapon that the players won't get rid at the first opportunity...? Georgia Dow: Allow me to introduce myself and tell you about the horribly fascinating psychology of abusive relationships.
If I could recommend a character analysis video, a channel called Play your Role did a video about Travis's next character, Fjord, and the toxicity of masculinity. How it's okay to be yourself and not someone else. PYR doesn't believe that was the original route, but it is still an excellent example.
Really interesting video as always! I'd love to see your reaction and thoughts to episode 8 with Vex & her father / Vex & Saundor considering your initial video on the twins and their different attachment types from season 1!
1:23 :The issue with intelligent weapons...is that they all have an objective." I proceed to think about Nick and Todd from The Unexpectables Campaign, who were two sentient blades that hated each other. And that was it. It was nothing but constant bickering between the two! XD
Always be wary of people, or things, that want you to keep the relationship a secret. If they use phrases like they are jealous or they would not understand then it is manipulations.
Fantastic video as always, I love hearing your analysis of things I had thoughts about ever since seeing the streamed version. The LoVM version of the Craven Edge arc is much better presented than the tabletop one, thanks to the benefit of scripting, and Iove it. Stats wise, Craven Edge was literally making him stronger the more he fed it. It really was like a drug to Grog - especially with his insecurity about his own worth. On Tabletop it was a dice rolled battle of willpower for Grog to release Craven Edge and the Keyleth dropped the sword into a pocket dimension ... I like this version so much better because similar to Percy and Orthax they have made the fight more about strength of character on the phscological fight and we learn so much. Also, the extra penalty from Craven Edge in LoVM is perfect, because I imagine it really will lead into what I know is the answer to Earth Breaker Groon's question about his true strength.
If you haven't seen the original, I recommend looking up Grog's conversation with Craven Edge on youtube. The show shorted it quite a bit and changed it's location from an outhouse to the woods. I get why they shorted it. The full conversation was a bit long to fit in here, but it's a bit of a shame as the original was one of the greatest 6 minutes of pure comedy gold ever put on the internet.
in the original campaign separating himself from the sword actually straight out killed him. I like the change for the animated show, it fits this narrative better for sure.
Awwww thanks so much ! I had a lot of hair and even after the video I kept finding more. I made the beard and even painted it myself = )) was a lot of fun to do thanks so much for liking it
This whole thing kind of comes to a head even more later on due to another weapon he gets in the final few episodes. Also, the relationship was a lot more defined in the actual campaign. Craven Edge had much more of a contrasting manipulative personality than what is portrayed in the show. It still gets the point across that Craven Edge is manipulating Grog's personality but it's a lot less believable than Matt Mercer regularly coaxing Grog
Hahahahahaha! (Re: Opening image of Georgia = ) People have a difficult time grasping that I was in an abusive relationship, since I am a large muscular guy with epic fighting skills. I fell in love with...Okay. Wait. The phrase "falling in love WITH" would erroneously suggest she also fell in love with me. I'm thinking she was actually some sort of enemy agent. Perhaps from SPECTRE. She DOES have a family history of racism. Not that they wore hoods. Publicly. But perhaps it was still NOT the best choice for me, the card carrying aboriginal, to keep company with her. She controlled the money, hers was the only name on the lease, separated me from family and friends. Plus she punched, kicked, slapped and swore at me. I would not hit her back.
@@Jonjon13Jonjon13 Greatly appreciated! I'm proud of myself for not hitting her back. NOT so proud that I allowed it go on for as long as it did. But...I gave her many opportunities to change. She did not. That's for sure on her. I'm was never quite at the point where I now burst into tears if a lady flirts with me = ) But...I have only dove into one relationship since. Being a HOPEFUL romantic...I will find the right one someday!
This animation reminded me a lot of the classical Berserk anime characters (especially Guts and Griffith). Have you seen the series by any chance and have you ever made a video or though of making one for it?
Until watching this, I had not made the connection with Little Shop of Horrors. Craven Edge is Audrey 2. I will add that the word "monster" is from a Latin word meaning "warning". Monsters in stories are to serve as a warning for the viewer. Be good or this will happen to you.
i really need a video about bungo stray dogs omg 😭 the characters are so interesting and i really wanted to know more about Dazai and his suicidal personality
You just gave me an idea for an enchanted item: a super-duper weapon that only wants to be used as a deterrent and always misses unless you actually earn its trust and convince it that it's your last resort for a good purpose.
Yay! Love me some LoVM! Great season and great video! I was watching a video from RealLifeLore a bit ago and at the end he has the same Curiosity Stream that you often do and during their ad for it, it showed a splash of the site scrolling by and it had one of your videos front and center. I thought that was pretty cool. Anyway, keep up the great work! Did you enjoy Season 2 now that it's over? :)
"That's what good friends do - they make you stronger than you are." I wonder if that'll come up later in the season... there does seem to be a recurring theme of unbalanced relationships and abuse - maybe you could do Vax and the Matron of Ravens, possibly comparing it to Vex's rejection of Saundor.
Hahhahaha with the beard troubles. Good work this time around with the cosplay (and to a greater degree, the dependency breakdown) Edit: I have played two characters that have at one point or another gotten access to intelligent weapons. One was Whelm for the white plume mountain campaign and the other was just this week in the campaign Out of the Abyss (weapon is Dawnbringer). Whelm is interesting because it doesn’t want to assist my character since he isn’t dwarven but it is the hammer’s only chance to return home to the mountain dwarves. So it is kind of a contentious relationship. With Dawnbringer, it’ll be different because 1) it is a feminine personality and 2) she is afraid of the dark and wants to remain lit but my character the wields her is a rogue that relies heavily on sneak attack in the shadows of the underdark. Should be fun to see where it goes.
i have had 2 characters with intelligent weapons, actually, and they had WILDLY different experiences. my paladin was given a great war scythe by his goddess, and she (the scythe in this case) was very kind, and almost gentle, but also fiercely protective personality, so they got on like gang busters. my rogue, on the other hand, ended up with a rapier that was literally forged from the soul of a vampire lord. that was a... less agreeable relationship. after we did what we needed to, i just dropped it at the foot of a glacier and left. the sword, needless to say, was not happy about this.
@Georgia Dow What's worse is right before my cleric left the party after resurrecting my wizard, he cast legend lore on it and we learned it was from an ancient elven kingdom that no longer exists and I think I accidentally sent it into an existential crisis because it was quiet for quite some time after that
my god nobody can trump your cosplay skills, can they? Whenever i think it can't get any better you find a way to get better :D this is such an interesting topic, thanks for sharing your insights and knowledge! I think the shame and reward aspects are really interesting, this vortex that draws you in and isolates you while creating barriers towards your actual friends and reasonable people. It's not even just personal, work or family relationships, so much of this is very applicable to extremist groups, cults, gangs etc. "Normal" people will make fun of you, call you stupid, or get angry for not seeing the obvious toxicity and abuse they see from the outside, while the other side perpetuates the feeling that only they really understand you and care for you. Fascinating topic.
okay but serious topic aside Grog's conversation with Craven edge in the game was in a different location (street outhouse) went on longer and made it harder for the DM to not crack up with Grog's stupid questions and I still need to see the whole thing
I feel while they did good in the animation they also lost much of the original. The campaign of course went on much longer, even with Craven Edge. In the campaign Grog first confided in Scanlan about how the sword was talking to him, because He thought Pike would immediately take it from him and Scanlan might relate. Scanlan hears Craven Edge and grows suspicious, keeping an eye on Grog's behaviour and informing Pike. When they finally talk Grog into accepting that the sword is bad and that he should give it away it kills him. They manage to resurrect Grog and to sever his bond to the sword before banishing it but it was never destroyed. I feel especially Pike's influence as the voice of reason for Grog did get translated well but I would have liked it if they had kept Grog's attempt at getting help. Confiding in Scanlan was a big step.
I remember a campaign where my friends rogue got a bow with an edgy name that I can't quite place( I think it was like fearsetter or something) the bow created its own arrows and these special arrows it created caused people to see there greatest fears and recharged the bow if the enemy failed the con roll anyway during a lull in the campaign where we were resting in an inn for a few days waiting for news from the Dane we were in touch with where the rogue started loosing health and was unable to relax in any respect( he had to roll short and long rest success with disadvantage) and no one knew why turns out the bow was causing him to randomly roll con/arcane checks anytime the rogue failed the bow took 3hp and it only forced a roll when he was trying to rest trying to catch him off guard and how the dm explained a different horrifying event everytime from his character being buried alive, his characters mother lying limp her hands forming mouth on the palm yelling you did this over and over, and the most infamous one where he was shown a blank room where another him stood the other walked toward him slowly walked forward as it did the rest of the party would appear one at a time as the other ripped apart of them off which in turn caused them to decay rapidly leaving only toothy grins as they died
I still run a hybrid between 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, so intelligent weapons can get... interesting... I have been a perma-DM since 1984, so never got the chance as a player to acquire one, but I've saddled my players with them many times. Most entertaining example was when a player over time by 10th level (a MAJOR achievement in the older editions) acquired two intelligent, talking weapons and I had to do dialogue for both of them. At one point the two weapons were at odds with each other, both had Ego scores high enough to override the character, and the rest of the party watch him with a sword in either hand as they argue about what to attack first while he's jerking back and forth torn between them. Meanwhile the players are falling out of their chairs laughing as they watch me play the part of the two swords, animatedly arguing with myself in alternating high British and German accents, and looking like I've lost my marbles or am possessed 🤣 That game was a blast :D
In the Second campaign I was in I had a dagger that was similar to Craven Edge that used to encourage my murderous tendencies lol then my character died, was buried with it and it was forgotten lol
My DM gave me a Javelin of Lightning that was like a child and craved gold or treasure because it ate it, and boy did I make a dragon mad by launching it into the dragon’s hoard
The one time I had an intelligent weapon in D&D, it was a sword that had been made for a very virtuous paladin, sworn to serve its god and undertake the most righteous of quests. Which was funny, because my character was a nay-theist (did not believe that any god was worth serving) and a mercenary who only undertook quests that paid well. They were quite a pair.
Intelligent weapons have agendas and are frequently unpleasant. It took forever for me to remember the existence of Need which was an intelligent sword in some Mercedes Lackey books that was actually benign and even Need could really screw with people until it actually woke up. It's base imperatives while sleeping could lead to headaches galore. Outside of that, there are some pretty judgy benevolent weapons (Mjolnir, Holy Avenger swords, Moonblades, other stuff I'm not remembering) but if they let you use them at all then they probably aren't going to mess with you unless you abuse their power in such a way that they reject you later. Swords that talk to you are frequently just bad news all around. The Weasley quote of, "Don't trust intelligent things if you can't see where they keep their brain..." is not perfect but it also isn't the worst rule of thumb in a fantasy setting.
Possible spoilers??? Iwas really hoping they'd animate Percy intimidating Craven Edge with his own demon. It was such a cool moment in live game, but I understand why they didn't because the pacing and story beats was a bit different compared to live tabletop. Understandable considering this is animated and a bit more streamlined in story.
I'm just curious how much these cosplays normally cost you. It's incredible every time, and it seems unlikely that these materials all forever just lying around.
Huh. Not sure if this is the first time we've heard Georgia Dow talking about Addiction... but it kinda want me see her tackle Fulgrim, Lucius the Eternal and/or the whole of the Emperor's Children from 40k! Those dudes need help
Finally a therapist specializing in weapon-wielder relationships!
truth
I feel like intelligent weapons and their weilders could be a whole subset of therapy in a DnD-style world.
To say nothing of warlocks and their patrons…
Next episode: Elric and Stormbringer.
@@suntiger745 *Sweats in Devilish Hexblade Patron* what do you mean we're happy
@@insomnaholic how about Magnus and Jack (aka Sumarbrandr)
And this only covers his relationship with Craven Edge, I imagine his time spent with the Herd of Storms and the abuse from his Uncle Kevdak would deserve it’s own video!
Yeah especially the battle they going to have in the first of the last three episodes of season 2 tomorrow (or for me later today)
Grog and pike is the purest relationship, best buddies.
Addiction is an apt metaphor, in the original stream the sword kept him from sleeping and he didn't even notice it was obviously stealing his soul until after they got rid of it. He tried really hard to hold onto it because he thought he needed it to fight his uncle, one of my favorite Grog quotes that got cut was him telling Pike he didn't care how he died, so long as it was a beautiful death. But not to Kevdak, not him. Grog needed the sword to win, he didn't think he could on his own
For Grog, I think the moment where he impales Pike was ABSOLUTELY needed for him to fully find the strength of will to toss the sword away; Grog isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so spelling something out to him might sometimes require doing so in the most direct way possible. This horrifying moment not only made his biggest fears a reality, it made Grog realize two things: the very real danger that Craven Edge had to him and his comrades, and what Earthbreaker Groon meant about Craven Edge being "a reliance that proves your frailty". Grog had to do some serious character growth.
I was in an abusive relationship. I have forgiven myself and I continue to grow and heal. I'm in a great, better spot. I'm hopeful for my future. 🤗☺️
Yay! I'm so proud of you!!! :D
wish you the best and happy you had the str to make it out
@@GeorgiaDow Thanks! I'm proud of the choices I made and the choices I am making.
If I may ask, which were you? The victim or the perpetrator? You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable but I'm curious.
P.S. if you were the victim you have my sympathy & Admiration for soldiering past that and climbing out of what your partner dug you into.
If you were the perpetrator then I have MAD respect for you for turning that around for yourself because not a lot of people would do that.
I really hope Travis sees this. Brilliant cosplay. The Pike and Grog dynamic is one of the very best things in this show and the original campaign. And I love the way you expand on it and highlight why it’s so good.
I hope so also
If you tag him with a link he probably will. The entire CR cast is pretty responsive to fans, and Travis in particular likes reaction videos and often talks about them.
Travis enjoys watching reactions of the animation so I'd say there is a very decent chance he does
I love how Grog gets over this addiction. He finds the strength with his friends.
Love the nails. Cat's Eye? Most places charge extra for those. Mine doesn't and I love Cat's Eye!
As someone who battled addiction in the past, Craven Edge reminds me of the part of my head that wanted to give in to desire. When you're addicted to something, it's scary how you can feel in control but aren't, it's like a cognitive dissonance where everyone else is voicing your doubts, you feel fine therefore you must be fine, and everyone else is wrong even if there is a nagging doubt in your head. I was unfortunate to become addicted to benzodiazepine, something I got to help treat some sleep issues, and before I realised it, I was addicted to it.
Yeah I was on opioids and xanax for half my life, been sober for three years now. I *still* can't think straight. I *still* don't feel like I have perfect control over myself, both in terms of behavior and in terms of how it feels to just move around. My brainfog is *still* pretty intense. My episodic memory is *still* unable to form new memories properly, and there's massive gaps of times in my life where I don't remember anything. A lot of my life, I know what happened in the same sense that I would know what happened to the main character of a book I read. I don't remember it happening, but I *know* that stuff did. It's really hard to explain to people who haven't gone through it.
That start 🤣
Interesting, I never thought of Craven Edge as an abusive relationship as I followed the tabletop campaign and saw it as an evil item that granted him power at a cost. However, seeing how LoVM presented it in the animation and how you analyzed it, you definitely see it and it always was.
Another example of how Meta Pidgeon and Titmouse took a great story and turned it into a great show.
I loved how you tried to stifle a sneeze at the beginning. 😁 Great costume and analysis as always!
it was itchy
Craven Edge: Sentient weapon that' literally mindcontrol Grog.
Georgia: Dispells it with Intelligence (Psychology) check.
hehe love it
With a Nat 20 plus expertise so 29
I think this would be a traditional medicine check.
@@MegaPokefan97I wonder if psychology in this case would be a wisdom check, as it relies mostly on self reflection.
@stingerjohnny9951 I'd argue for Wisdom. I don't think intelligence means emotional intelligence
I do miss that the rest of the party, particularly Percy, wasn't around to see off Craven Edge like in the actual play. The confrontation between the two of them was an auditory spectacle.
Percy using his own issues to intimate the sword to let go of Grog was my fave part of that.
True, but I like that they made this more of a personal journey for grog.
That is a great beard. Pike and Grogs relationship is one of the best. Grog choosing his love for his friends put a smile on my face.
Wonderful analysis as alway. Have a great day.
Thanks so much I made the beard myself
Fantastic video! Grog and Craven Edge make the best worst pairing, and how he dealt with it in LoVM had so much more meaning than what they did in the actual play, imo. Like you said, he's now closer to figuring out the point that Earthbreaker Groon was trying to make, that the sword isn't what makes Grog strong. Also, the beard was a wonderful touch. :D
9:40 - “Where do you find your strength?” I love that you mentioned this even before the final three episodes!
Thanks so happy you noticed
I adore your ability to meaningfully talk about issues that parallel 'weird' fictional constructs, like intelligent weapons with Ego scores.
Also, your commitment to cosplay. HA.
yay hehehehe
Grog’s heart is big that he wants to protect the one’s he love even if it means using dark power he is truly charming
Also:love the beard
OMG, you have no idea how much I needed to hear this even YEARS after a toxic and addictive relationship. The shear validation is just so helpful.
Grog is basically a giant kid in the body of a half giant. He’s intelligence was chosen to be low by his player, Travis Willingham, mostly because this was Travis’ first DnD game and he wanted to make sure he didn’t get too much in the way.
Craven Edge actually had a few full conversations with Grog. And they’re pretty hilarious.
Mostly because this is a cursed artifact telling Grog to do bad things, and Grog, being a sweetheart, doesn’t always listen
Oh i love how u hit the nail on the head with the abusive realtions and addiction that Craven Edge gave to Grog. But i dont know if he didnt know its an evil weapon, i think its more that he is a simple dude, he didnt understand what it could mean for him when he used it. It was weiled by a vampire and both Gilmore and Earthbreaker Groon told him its a dark weapon, so he was warned, but with his inteligence, he didnt connect the dots until it was too late.
And Craven Edge took not just Grogs strength. Grog is not the smartest, wisest. He does not have charm. All he had was brute force. So every time he faced a problem he used force to deal with it. Strength is his identity and thats what he lost. Like Grog said this is worse then death.
And just on a fun side not, in the campaign, Craven Edge a actualy killed Grog. Pike had to resurect him and then break the swords hold on Grogs soul. And since u cant just break magical items that easy they disposed of Craven Edge in a pocked dimension.
As someone who spent his 20s bouncing from bad relationship to bad relationship, this hit kinda close to home.
Grog even had someone try to make him think about his weakness and addiction. The old monk kept asking "What is the source of your power?", he was trying to make Grog realize that Craven Edge wasn't the source of Grog's strength, Grog was.
Cool videos. I hope you do a deep dive into the entire season 2 like you did with season 1.
Love the cosplay & commentary . The face fur was well braved. I appreciate your take on this abusive & addictive relationships. Thanks
The conversation with Craven Edge happens almost exactly as it did in the stream (Scanlan included), except it happened in a Whitestone outhouse. Twas a tad crampt.
For the record, the effects of Craven Edge wear off after a short rest, and it *can* get full... but if it does, there's a chance it will kill its wielder the next time they try to use it. Grog had avoided resting for the sake of maxing it out, so he was exhausted when Cravy tried to eat him. Travis rolled a natural twenty for his saving throw, then realised it should be at disadvantage because of the exhaustion... and proceeded to roll a natural one. I can understand why they skipped his death in the accelerated timeline of the show, but now I expect he'll Hulk back out when he understands where his strength comes from, which is a bit... on the nose?
One night, Vax got Grog really drunk, then shaved off *half* the beard as he slept. In the morning, Grog tried to fill it in by smearing charcoal across his face. Would half the beard have been easier?
Grog and Pike are my favorite duo in Vox Machina. And I love these analysis videos! Thank you for making them (and great beard!)
So glad you tackled this one! Love these scenes and you breaking it down.
I’ll definitely have to rewatch the season in one go once it’s all out so I can truly appreciate all this. Grog and his gnomes were definitely my personal favorite part of episodes 7-9 (though I’ll admit I’m biased since it was largely because of Scanlan specifically, I’m sorry, I can’t help it, he’s my fave 💜), these three are such a great family together and I love them ❤
Also excellent cosplay 👍
This breakdown makes me so happy!!! (And your cosplay is ON POINT)
whohoooo !!
Man. I think everyone can relate to Grog in this arc. It feels like these days we've all been targeted by an insecure person who uses the tools their abuser used on them to manipulate you into sticking by them even when they're vicious.
And it really does take a good platonic friend to get you through it.
My favorite part of these, other than learning stuff, is thinking of how she decides how to make the outfits.
“Maybe some painting tape for the tattoos, I’ll need a beard… how do I make a sword?”
This discussion is exactly the reason I watch your videos! What a great opportunity to talk about some challenges or experiences that occurs with us through a more approachable medium like animation and tv.
Few fun facts just cause I like sharing them; when Matt Mercer was with the design team for the old man in the arena he wanted him to look like the ideal Street Fighter character, disciplined in both mind and body. In the campaign Travis (Grog) could not figure out the answer on where his strength came from so he just kept getting knocked around. The Stormlord is the god of honorable combat so it makes sense an arena would be a place of worship. I'd like to talk more about him but there's whispers of a show for campaign 2 coming and he plays a much more prominent role there.
Love this video, I hadn't considered Craven Edge as a parallel to an abuser or an addiction and it was great to see the analyze the show with through this perspective. Also I love the beard!
thanks = )) i may have went too far but it was fun
(Some spoilers below for later in the show than the point discussed in the video, careful internet strangers :) )
One key thing you touched on that I find most people lose in the relationship between craven edge and Grog is his physical vs emotional autonomy in the situation. It's such an important dynamic, so it's surprising that layer of nuance is lost on people. For the most part, Grog is fully conscious of what he is doing in a physical sense. He is not magically charmed or compelled (at least against his will) up until the events with Pike and Scanlan. He instead relinquishes control of his body embracing this hidden hubris inside of him, a darker bloodlust deep-seeded within him that we learn more about with his past life in the herd. This is egged on and taken advantage of by the sword, but the sword doesn't take full physical control until he rebels from what it wants him to be doing because it doesn't need to with its emotional puppet strings. As long as the sword is fed, it fulfills it's part of the bargain, giving the user immense strength and power. It's important to note that Sylas never seems to have much of a struggle with the sword in this way. This is likely because their goals alligned, him being a vampire that needed blood to survive and the sword also needing that same thing. Grog, however, has other goals and aspirations. Sure, he enjoys killing things, but he doesn't require blood, and has other time-consuming facets to his personal life as well. He is not the murderous half-giant he was before as depicted in the latter half of this batch of episodes, but rather a compassionate warrior who wants to protect people. This is where the two start to butt heads emotionally, and why the sword is choosing to isolate him into codependency instead of treating him like a trusted companion. Craven Edge cannot fathom having a host that would divert from its wishes, so instead of working together with him it chooses to systematically eliminate all threats to its rise to power. Doing so covertly is more important to it than anything, so it knows the best way of getting to grog is from a logical standpoint, because that's where his weakness truly lies. It uses his low intellect to fool him into an abusive relationship that even once realized is hard to overcome from an emotional standpoint. Great vid, and sorry this is so long why am I like this
Wielders of Cursed weapons like Craven Edge often role play them lying on the weapon’s behalf.
There is no rule about it. But it makes for a nice story hook, the rest of the party slowly catching on to gradual change in their party member ever since picking up said weapon.
aaa I wasss hopingg you made another vox machina video thanks so much!!! they are so amazingg
Dungeon Masters: Man, how do you roleplay an evil magical weapon that the players won't get rid at the first opportunity...?
Georgia Dow: Allow me to introduce myself and tell you about the horribly fascinating psychology of abusive relationships.
I have been waiting for this
yay
Grog’s heart is big that he wants to protect the one’s he love even if it means using dark power he is truly charming
If I could recommend a character analysis video, a channel called Play your Role did a video about Travis's next character, Fjord, and the toxicity of masculinity. How it's okay to be yourself and not someone else. PYR doesn't believe that was the original route, but it is still an excellent example.
Really interesting video as always! I'd love to see your reaction and thoughts to episode 8 with Vex & her father / Vex & Saundor considering your initial video on the twins and their different attachment types from season 1!
I love how you put together cosplays for those videos.
Great video and great beard! Also speaking of gaslighting & abuse, I'm Very interested to see a vax, and especially vex, analysis after episode 8
1:23 :The issue with intelligent weapons...is that they all have an objective."
I proceed to think about Nick and Todd from The Unexpectables Campaign, who were two sentient blades that hated each other. And that was it. It was nothing but constant bickering between the two! XD
Always be wary of people, or things, that want you to keep the relationship a secret. If they use phrases like they are jealous or they would not understand then it is manipulations.
Fantastic video as always, I love hearing your analysis of things I had thoughts about ever since seeing the streamed version.
The LoVM version of the Craven Edge arc is much better presented than the tabletop one, thanks to the benefit of scripting, and Iove it. Stats wise, Craven Edge was literally making him stronger the more he fed it. It really was like a drug to Grog - especially with his insecurity about his own worth.
On Tabletop it was a dice rolled battle of willpower for Grog to release Craven Edge and the Keyleth dropped the sword into a pocket dimension ... I like this version so much better because similar to Percy and Orthax they have made the fight more about strength of character on the phscological fight and we learn so much.
Also, the extra penalty from Craven Edge in LoVM is perfect, because I imagine it really will lead into what I know is the answer to Earth Breaker Groon's question about his true strength.
I absolutely LOVE you 😂. I love your Vox Machina videos. Thank you for doing these ❤❤
Glad you like them! < 3 thank you for being part of my community
ur outfits keep getting better lmao, love it
Love seeing your cosplays and vox machina content ❤
Glad you like them!
Thank you.
If you haven't seen the original, I recommend looking up Grog's conversation with Craven Edge on youtube. The show shorted it quite a bit and changed it's location from an outhouse to the woods. I get why they shorted it. The full conversation was a bit long to fit in here, but it's a bit of a shame as the original was one of the greatest 6 minutes of pure comedy gold ever put on the internet.
fantastic video as always. might be your best cosplay.
Thank you! 😊
Well said
I know you don’t have the time, but I’d love to see you go through the C1 and C2 campaigns and deep dive into the characters going on main points
omg that first cut to you in the grog beard 💀💀 ilysm georgia
haha thanks
Just wait until Travis' next character's abusive relationship with his sword in Mighty Nein. That's a real doozy.
in the original campaign separating himself from the sword actually straight out killed him. I like the change for the animated show, it fits this narrative better for sure.
Great video but at 0:12 I was drinking water and almost spat my screen, I love that you do costumes for your videos lol
Sorry! kinda heheheh
THE BEARD! THE! BEARD! Georgia! It's so majestic! :D Did you happen to have one just lying around for this? It's so amazing
Awwww thanks so much ! I had a lot of hair and even after the video I kept finding more. I made the beard and even painted it myself = )) was a lot of fun to do thanks so much for liking it
Omg I love your Grog beard!!!
I made it myself THANKS
That thumbnail goes hard, Georgia!
i was overly excited and into this cosplay
Great analysis and great cosplay!
Thank you kindly!
This whole thing kind of comes to a head even more later on due to another weapon he gets in the final few episodes. Also, the relationship was a lot more defined in the actual campaign. Craven Edge had much more of a contrasting manipulative personality than what is portrayed in the show. It still gets the point across that Craven Edge is manipulating Grog's personality but it's a lot less believable than Matt Mercer regularly coaxing Grog
Fun fact in the original show(critical roll) it literally costs grog his life from destroying the blade
Hahahahahaha! (Re: Opening image of Georgia = ) People have a difficult time grasping that I was in an abusive relationship, since I am a large muscular guy with epic fighting skills. I fell in love with...Okay. Wait. The phrase "falling in love WITH" would erroneously suggest she also fell in love with me.
I'm thinking she was actually some sort of enemy agent. Perhaps from SPECTRE.
She DOES have a family history of racism. Not that they wore hoods. Publicly. But perhaps it was still NOT the best choice for me, the card carrying aboriginal, to keep company with her. She controlled the money, hers was the only name on the lease, separated me from family and friends. Plus she punched, kicked, slapped and swore at me. I would not hit her back.
hugs for you, my man. ♥
@@Jonjon13Jonjon13 Greatly appreciated! I'm proud of myself for not hitting her back. NOT so proud that I allowed it go on for as long as it did. But...I gave her many opportunities to change. She did not. That's for sure on her. I'm was never quite at the point where I now burst into tears if a lady flirts with me = ) But...I have only dove into one relationship since. Being a HOPEFUL romantic...I will find the right one someday!
Abuse can happen to anyone no matter the size
This animation reminded me a lot of the classical Berserk anime characters (especially Guts and Griffith). Have you seen the series by any chance and have you ever made a video or though of making one for it?
Until watching this, I had not made the connection with Little Shop of Horrors. Craven Edge is Audrey 2. I will add that the word "monster" is from a Latin word meaning "warning". Monsters in stories are to serve as a warning for the viewer. Be good or this will happen to you.
i really need a video about bungo stray dogs omg 😭 the characters are so interesting and i really wanted to know more about Dazai and his suicidal personality
You just gave me an idea for an enchanted item: a super-duper weapon that only wants to be used as a deterrent and always misses unless you actually earn its trust and convince it that it's your last resort for a good purpose.
Yay! Love me some LoVM! Great season and great video!
I was watching a video from RealLifeLore a bit ago and at the end he has the same Curiosity Stream that you often do and during their ad for it, it showed a splash of the site scrolling by and it had one of your videos front and center. I thought that was pretty cool.
Anyway, keep up the great work! Did you enjoy Season 2 now that it's over? :)
I'll check it out! thats awesome
"That's what good friends do - they make you stronger than you are." I wonder if that'll come up later in the season... there does seem to be a recurring theme of unbalanced relationships and abuse - maybe you could do Vax and the Matron of Ravens, possibly comparing it to Vex's rejection of Saundor.
I love this outfit so much
Hahhahaha with the beard troubles. Good work this time around with the cosplay (and to a greater degree, the dependency breakdown)
Edit: I have played two characters that have at one point or another gotten access to intelligent weapons. One was Whelm for the white plume mountain campaign and the other was just this week in the campaign Out of the Abyss (weapon is Dawnbringer). Whelm is interesting because it doesn’t want to assist my character since he isn’t dwarven but it is the hammer’s only chance to return home to the mountain dwarves. So it is kind of a contentious relationship. With Dawnbringer, it’ll be different because 1) it is a feminine personality and 2) she is afraid of the dark and wants to remain lit but my character the wields her is a rogue that relies heavily on sneak attack in the shadows of the underdark. Should be fun to see where it goes.
I always really appreciate your outfits
0:26 don't worry, Ashley Johnson (Pike) dress up as Travis Willingham (Grog) for Halloween 2021 and her beard kept going off
i have had 2 characters with intelligent weapons, actually, and they had WILDLY different experiences. my paladin was given a great war scythe by his goddess, and she (the scythe in this case) was very kind, and almost gentle, but also fiercely protective personality, so they got on like gang busters.
my rogue, on the other hand, ended up with a rapier that was literally forged from the soul of a vampire lord. that was a... less agreeable relationship. after we did what we needed to, i just dropped it at the foot of a glacier and left. the sword, needless to say, was not happy about this.
The barbarian in my campaign has a talking sword which seems really nice actually but the barb ignored pretty much everything it says lol
aww i feel bad for his sword
@Georgia Dow What's worse is right before my cleric left the party after resurrecting my wizard, he cast legend lore on it and we learned it was from an ancient elven kingdom that no longer exists and I think I accidentally sent it into an existential crisis because it was quiet for quite some time after that
my god nobody can trump your cosplay skills, can they? Whenever i think it can't get any better you find a way to get better :D
this is such an interesting topic, thanks for sharing your insights and knowledge!
I think the shame and reward aspects are really interesting, this vortex that draws you in and isolates you while creating barriers towards your actual friends and reasonable people. It's not even just personal, work or family relationships, so much of this is very applicable to extremist groups, cults, gangs etc. "Normal" people will make fun of you, call you stupid, or get angry for not seeing the obvious toxicity and abuse they see from the outside, while the other side perpetuates the feeling that only they really understand you and care for you. Fascinating topic.
Happy you enjoyed the topic and understood it so well. It is very refreshing to have someone get it so well.
8:56 "she's beginning to assimilate..." -Craven Itch
1:26 imagine being abused by your weapon..... wait..... why does this work so well. I mean a weapon is a tool to keep you safe
okay but serious topic aside Grog's conversation with Craven edge in the game was in a different location (street outhouse) went on longer and made it harder for the DM to not crack up with Grog's stupid questions and I still need to see the whole thing
I was in an abusive relationship, but then I decided to stop beating myself up about it.
I feel while they did good in the animation they also lost much of the original.
The campaign of course went on much longer, even with Craven Edge. In the campaign Grog first confided in Scanlan about how the sword was talking to him, because He thought Pike would immediately take it from him and Scanlan might relate.
Scanlan hears Craven Edge and grows suspicious, keeping an eye on Grog's behaviour and informing Pike.
When they finally talk Grog into accepting that the sword is bad and that he should give it away it kills him.
They manage to resurrect Grog and to sever his bond to the sword before banishing it but it was never destroyed.
I feel especially Pike's influence as the voice of reason for Grog did get translated well but I would have liked it if they had kept Grog's attempt at getting help. Confiding in Scanlan was a big step.
I remember a campaign where my friends rogue got a bow with an edgy name that I can't quite place( I think it was like fearsetter or something) the bow created its own arrows and these special arrows it created caused people to see there greatest fears and recharged the bow if the enemy failed the con roll anyway during a lull in the campaign where we were resting in an inn for a few days waiting for news from the Dane we were in touch with where the rogue started loosing health and was unable to relax in any respect( he had to roll short and long rest success with disadvantage) and no one knew why turns out the bow was causing him to randomly roll con/arcane checks anytime the rogue failed the bow took 3hp and it only forced a roll when he was trying to rest trying to catch him off guard and how the dm explained a different horrifying event everytime from his character being buried alive, his characters mother lying limp her hands forming mouth on the palm yelling you did this over and over, and the most infamous one where he was shown a blank room where another him stood the other walked toward him slowly walked forward as it did the rest of the party would appear one at a time as the other ripped apart of them off which in turn caused them to decay rapidly leaving only toothy grins as they died
I still run a hybrid between 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, so intelligent weapons can get... interesting... I have been a perma-DM since 1984, so never got the chance as a player to acquire one, but I've saddled my players with them many times. Most entertaining example was when a player over time by 10th level (a MAJOR achievement in the older editions) acquired two intelligent, talking weapons and I had to do dialogue for both of them. At one point the two weapons were at odds with each other, both had Ego scores high enough to override the character, and the rest of the party watch him with a sword in either hand as they argue about what to attack first while he's jerking back and forth torn between them. Meanwhile the players are falling out of their chairs laughing as they watch me play the part of the two swords, animatedly arguing with myself in alternating high British and German accents, and looking like I've lost my marbles or am possessed 🤣 That game was a blast :D
Can you please analyze Death Note and Trigun Stampede
I did NOT expect you to beard out for grog in this video, though I suppose I should've expected it 🤣💖
heheheheh = ) thank you for enjoying
Your sword is very cool :D
Thanks 😁 I made it and it ended up pretty good
In the Second campaign I was in I had a dagger that was similar to Craven Edge that used to encourage my murderous tendencies lol then my character died, was buried with it and it was forgotten lol
I am both SO happy and impressed that you managed to do this whole video with that beard on.
HAH it was itchy
My DM gave me a Javelin of Lightning that was like a child and craved gold or treasure because it ate it, and boy did I make a dragon mad by launching it into the dragon’s hoard
The one time I had an intelligent weapon in D&D, it was a sword that had been made for a very virtuous paladin, sworn to serve its god and undertake the most righteous of quests.
Which was funny, because my character was a nay-theist (did not believe that any god was worth serving) and a mercenary who only undertook quests that paid well.
They were quite a pair.
Intelligent weapons have agendas and are frequently unpleasant. It took forever for me to remember the existence of Need which was an intelligent sword in some Mercedes Lackey books that was actually benign and even Need could really screw with people until it actually woke up. It's base imperatives while sleeping could lead to headaches galore. Outside of that, there are some pretty judgy benevolent weapons (Mjolnir, Holy Avenger swords, Moonblades, other stuff I'm not remembering) but if they let you use them at all then they probably aren't going to mess with you unless you abuse their power in such a way that they reject you later. Swords that talk to you are frequently just bad news all around. The Weasley quote of, "Don't trust intelligent things if you can't see where they keep their brain..." is not perfect but it also isn't the worst rule of thumb in a fantasy setting.
Possible spoilers???
Iwas really hoping they'd animate Percy intimidating Craven Edge with his own demon. It was such a cool moment in live game, but I understand why they didn't because the pacing and story beats was a bit different compared to live tabletop. Understandable considering this is animated and a bit more streamlined in story.
Oh man I hope you do a video with Vex, I'm praying it happens
I'm just curious how much these cosplays normally cost you. It's incredible every time, and it seems unlikely that these materials all forever just lying around.
Why didn't we do this on OfficeHours?
Huh. Not sure if this is the first time we've heard Georgia Dow talking about Addiction... but it kinda want me see her tackle Fulgrim, Lucius the Eternal and/or the whole of the Emperor's Children from 40k! Those dudes need help
Love the beard
makes me sooooooo happy