Is Stoicism Compatible with Christianity?
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- Опубліковано 18 лип 2021
- Is stoicism compatible with Christianity? In what ways does stoic philosophy agree with Christian thought? In what ways does stoic philosophy contradict Christian thought? These are some of the questions Wes McAdams and Travis Pauley discuss on today's podcast. This discussion was prompted by one of our listeners, Ryan, who has noticed an increasing number of social media influencers who promote a modern version of stoic philosophy.
Christians must have a discerning ear. We must be very careful that we do not adopt certain philosophies simply because we find them to be logical. Just because a philosophy "makes sense," doesn't mean it is true. In Paul's letter to the Colossian church, he warned against the danger of supplementing the Christian faith with worldly philosophies. Stoicism might very well be one such philosophy.
Before we adopt any philosophy (or even parts of a philosophy), we must critically examine its assumptions and its claims. That is why this question, "Is stoicism compatible with Christianity?" is particularly pressing as we see more and more people promoting the tenets of stoic thought.
We hope you find this Bible study encouraging and helpful.
Becoming a Stoic has in fact saved my faith in Christianity and improved my relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... Answered my many deep and longing questions when the church could not.. God can use anything to reach our hearts for He knows what we need
In my opinion it's about finding a balance and understanding that any philosophy of man imperfect,
And the Bible is the only infinite truth
@thefreeitalian exactly
I hear you brother. Agree so much with your comment. God bless.
This is what I am hoping for. I am struggling to die to self and growing slightly resentful of the name it and claim it, God is definitely going to give you stuff church that Is of today
Stoicism does not preach the cross, so how could it improve your relationship with Christ?
Our relationship with Christ is not dependent upon our actions or deeds, whereas stoicism is founded on the controlled actions and deeds of the philosopher. It bases contentment and peace on self power, mind logic and reasoning, but the gospel points us to the work of Christ to bring us peace with God, and that is true peace.
If Christ is not enough, then seeking Him through any other philosophy is futile.
I definitely believe that Christianity and stoicism are compatible.
Christ gives " through us" to others Without Christ I can do nothing! That is one of the main things that separates christians from stoicism
I see Stoicism as a daily-life practical application of Christianity teachings.
"Attach yourself to what is spiritually superior regardless of what others are doing around you" -Marcus Aurelius
I've been reading the stoics and I don't sense they are at odds with chritianity.
Council Epictetus is so fantastic!
This is a great introduction but conversation could be an entire series of tremendous value. Outstanding discussion. Thank you!
I was looking for a logical way to soothe my battered soul, Epictetus seemed like the most down to earth way for me. And as I read his works he kept speaking of gods. That led me to reacquaint myself with my Christian background. In my situation I use the stoic teachings as a mechanical way a program if you will to enact the narrative of the Bible in my life never forgetting that there is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit who hold rain over everything. As long as I never think that I am the center and as long as I never think I can control everything I can make stoicism work within the parameters of Christianity it’s a method not a theology at least for me
Spot on-thanks
Very true. I can relate with you.
Where I am amazed by Stoicism is where it says what I know scripture to be saying, with different words. Where it might have been a mantra to hear that all men believe in God and understand we are created in his image I believed, but almost as a mantra.
The Musonius says it and it became real for me, that even this pagan who never heard the Gospel really did know by virtue that we are made in the image of God. So for me the overlaps are extremely valuable, but it's very hard to categorize how and why
Ecclesiates 3 says there is a time for this and a time for that.
Stocism is an approach to certain situations.
So reading the stoiacs might help a person get through something extremely taxing.
It is one philosophy within Christianity but it is not the whole picture. It is one piece of the pie.
This was amazing! Thank you for sharing. It was much needed. God bless you both!
I agree with the speakers on that, as a Christian we are Christians and not Stoics and that some truths cannot be brought about by reasoning or logic. But what i disagree with is that “Stoicism puts a positive spin on things”, clearly the speakers did not do the philosophy any justice by a cursory analysis i am Christian but i think they could have done a better job by having a more knowledge able stoic in the room. I understand it is a Christian podcast and ultimately i agree with the speakers but stoicism is a hard teaching it forced me to acknowledge my weaknesses.
I stopped blaming, criticizing, praising others and myself. And funny enough it make me want to be a more mature Christian and stop eating baby food as Paul would say: and with that i realize i ultimately will have to abandon the stoic philosophy to become a mature Christian.
Marcus aurelius said do good without expecting thanks because as humans we should do good anyway it’s our job to do good so do good and don’t seek praise for it. I believe a lot of stoicism is compatible with Christianity. Obviously the stoics believed in many gods and came from that perspective but it doesn’t mean that the foundation of stoicism which is self control, honour, faithfulness, love, mercy, justice is wrong. The difference is that we attribute this wisdom to God and they attributed it to their gods.
Agree
All things work for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to his purpose
I’m not religious I consider myself apatheist but found that I’m more accepting of a higher power (not necessarily Christian god although I respect the religion) after reading much of the stoic philosophies positions on divinity. Also they share many similar values to Christianity and much of the virtues they talk about are incredibly compatible with it.
Very good discussion…Stoicism was a huge influence on Christian thought especially during the Middle Ages. I wonder if the reverse was true. Has Christianity had the same huge influence on Stoicism. I wonder.
Yes lol
Well no for the simple fact that the late Roman Stoics from whom our writings come from were not yet confronted with Christianity. But you can take Stoicism and fuse it with Christianity. For me that's not a problem at all. In fact, early Christian thinkers took their virtue ethics from the Stoics.
@@gabbisss Marcus Aurelius was around when Christians were in Rome
For me I cannot say I'm Christian or stoic but a consciousness in human experience learning from many ideas. And wisdom for self developmentt
After learning about stoicism, my first thought was Christ must have been the Stoic Sage.
Jesus definitely criticized the Pharisees ..he definitely reacted to the money lenders ...he definitely asked if the cup of the cross be removed... he definitely accused Peter ... and pointed out the differences between Martha and Marys choices ..Jesus wept ... for Lazarus...
good points, thank you for bringing up
Great point ! Jesus definitely reacted accordingly. I mean he flipped tables 🤷
Beautiful teaching✍🏽🙏🏽
I look at the Fruit of The Spirit in Galatians and it screams Stoicism. The Stoics don't typically speak about God, but some of what the Stoics teach run parallel with Christianity. We just need to remember that Christ is the Center, and we are not to get so wrapped up in Stoicism that we forget Christ. It's interesting to remember that Paul was a Roman Citizen and he no doubt was exposed to the stoic philosophy at some part in his life. Let's face it, Paul seemed extremely stoic himself. E.G. Paul singing while being locked up in jail. When I look at the Fruit of The Spirit, for years I wondered how I was to do that. Stoicism, to me, is like the how to walk in the fruit of the Spirit. I am beginning to walk in Love, Joy Peace Patience Kindness Goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The Bible teaches that we are to put our minds on Christ. That is being mindful, which is a stoic philosophy. The Bible also speaks about Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. The Bible speaks about putting our minds on the positive things, to help us walk in righteousness. Stoicism is teaching me how to walk in the Fruit Of The Spirit. I have in the past, been extremely close to God, through Christ Jesus, where I was putting my mind on Him most of the time. But that never stopped me from losing my temper at the drop of a hat. I never really knew how to die to myself. Stoicism is kind of giving me the how-to die to myself teachings. I hope this doesn't offend anyone; I just think that we shouldn't through the baby out with the bathwater. when it comes to stoicism. Christ is our way to salvation, and only Him. But I would like to learn how to live this walk in a practical way. I know their are scriptures that do teach us how to live the Christian life, but I find with stoicism, When it speaks about the Universe, I replace that with God. When it speaks about fate, I see that as circumstances. We must never replace Christ with stoicism, or any other philosophy. But if it can help me live my walk in a practical way, then I can't see anything wrong with that. I find it has helped me become a calmer, more others centered person. I have found that sometimes the scriptures say "do this," but don't tell us exactly how to "do this". A classic example is the fruit of the spirit. I have walked very closely with the Holy Spirit over the years, but my old sinful nature kicks in and I mess up when I know I shouldn't. I lose my temper, I become rude,, I am extremely self-centered, even when I try not to be. Stoicism is teaching me how to achieve these goals. I gave my life to Jesus over 20 Years ago, and I still haven't even come close to walking in the Spirit like I have always wanted to. Stoicism is helping me to be able to walk my walk in a fuller way.
@@emmanuellouis8570 Hey, you have a head start on me, I started studying stoicism at 59. LOL, I guess it is never too late.
Your words echo what I am going through with my faith. I desperately need to learn HOW to die to myself before I become even more bitter toward God. Please share with me what you have read to help you walk out what the Bible commands. How do you mentally adjust?
@@hopehouston9075 Hey how are you going? In the morning what I would do was turn on UA-cam find a video about stoicism and while I am walking on my walking machine, I watch the video. I meditate on what is being said. I then go have a cup of coffee. I usually have my bible and my Journal set up on the dinning room table. I use a 1 year Bible plan and I look up that day's date and read God's word. My journaling method is called S.O.A.P. That stands for, Scripture, Observation, Application Prayer. First thing I do is quickly pray that the Holy Spirit gives me a revelation from His word. I then begin reading the three chapters from the Bible. Here is the real secret, (know in your heart God wants to show you something.) Then as I read Go's word I actively look to see what God want's to reveal, When I find it I will highlight the verse. Then I will continue to read that days reading. Then I will begin to journal.
In the Scripture section I will write down the verses God has given me in it's entirety. In the Observation section I will write down what is happening in the verse and the context it was written in. In the Application section I quickly pray and ask God to show me in my mind what I need to do to change. Then I will write down what needs to be done and how to apply it to my life. And the last one is Prayer. In the prayer section I usually give a short prayer of thanks.
When something comes against me in life, I remember that I can't control others and that it is what it is. No point in getting upset about it. Accept that God has it under control.
now this has lots of benefits. Firstly by trusting That God is going to reveal something to you, You will re-learn how to trust God again. I know sometimes it seems like he doesn't listen to our prayers, but he does. And I know it sucks when we pray, and it doesn't happen. It's easy to lose trust in Him when that happens. And sometimes we can go into spiritual depression when that happens. I don't have any easy answer for you, I just know what I had to do. Now It isn't easy to do what I suggested, but it is worth it in the end. Einzelganger is a good UA-cam channel to start watching videos about Stoicism. But do remember that Christ needs to be the center. Also I have a channel called Our Freedom Formula, where I speak about stoicism. Maybe they are a good start. Please don't replace Jesus for stoicism. I also have a video about Stoicism vs Christianity. So check them out and see what you think. They're a start.
The advantage of Stoic philosophy for me is it is logical and my mind is not hijacked by others.
I agree! I have also found through stoicism you become an expert at detecting toxicity. Because stoicism is the narcissist nightmare.
I realize this is a fairly old podcast and I thank you for it. For me personally I found Christianity through the enchiridian.
First of all id like to say i appreciate the effort put into this video. i can see some research was done to understand the topic of Stoicism. However, one disagreement i have with how you talked about Stoicism would be near the end, how Stoics use perception, id say a better term would be judgements. When we look at the concept of anything we judge it, good or bad. what a Stoic does is they change their judgement on things. Id like to use the topic of death as an example since its one you discussed in the video. We see that death is normal, everything dies eventually, and because death is as normal and natural as birth, there is nothing inherently wrong with death. we also see that death has 2 outcomes, ether nothingness (in which case we wont feel or know anything when death happens), or something happens like heaven, reincarnation, etc, etc (in which case existence keeps going so death didnt change much). understanding this concept changes how we judge the concept of death, making the fear it holds over most people non-existent.
in regards to people adopting both styles of living, id say its best to avoid that. Both schools of thought are focused on different things as you pointed out. Christians are focused on praising god, etc, whilst Stoics are focused on being a good person and living in accordance with nature. BUT, we can both learn from each other. i have many Christian friends and ive asked them for advice when im having issues, they then read me sections from the bible, and pray to god for my wellbeing. And when my Christian friends have issues i help them using Philosophy, reading sections from my books, and working with them to overcome their issues. So id say that's what's important, to help each other and learn from another, Thanks.
I've got a few comments/questions.
First, what do you mean when you say that some things are indiscernible through natural means? I could be wrong, but it seemed like you're saying that you cannot know God without the Bible. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Because while the Bible is where we learn much about God, it even states in Romans 1:20 that it is clear just by looking at the universe that God exists, without the need to read about Him in the Bible.
Second, what do you mean when you say that Jesus would have been a terrible Stoic because he wouldn't agree with using temperance? Many modern Stoic translations use the term self-control in its place. I think Jesus always acted with temperance and self control. That doesn't mean that he never had significant actions/reactions, because he definitely did, but that he was always in control over himself, didn't act rashly, and didn't overreact to situations.
Lastly, I think you make one big mistake in your analysis of Stoicism and Christianity working together: you only compared them separately without really considering how they may work together. For example, you mention that the goal of Stoicism is to live virtuously and to live according to nature. You then mention that as a Christian, your purpose is to bring glory to God. While both of these are true, you just leave it there and say "see, they're different." What you should have done is gone a little deeper to see how Stoicism changes when viewed/lived in light of a Christian view. If your Christian purpose is to bring glory to God, and your Stoic philosophy tells you to live in accordance with your nature, then in order to be a good Stoic, you would then have to bring glory to God.
When viewed separately, it's easy to point to things that are contradictory between the two, but if you are discussing whether or not Christianity and Stoicism are compatible, you have to see what changes about Stoicism when viewed in light of Christianity.
The Stoics were often polytheists and deists, but that is not the core of Stoicism, so you have to be willing to see how it changes when viewed from a different theological standpoint.
In fact, Job was a good example of a stoic when God took everything from him he says "the Lord gives, the Lord takes away, blessed be the name of the lord" this is very stoic, that even in tragedy, we work in the way of the Lord we need to be content in every circumstances as the new testament says, which is a very stoic view, stoicism teaches that you ought to be okay with the way the universe works, good and bad things, that to be content what life gives you, and at the end of Job, God questions Job saying "are you the one running the universe? Are you the one who has great understand and wisdom that you can create by it?" And Job responds with knowing how small and insignificant he is, that he has no right to tell God how to run the universe, a stoic person is a person who is content with all circumstances and doesn't blame the universe with how it is, it's just what it is,
I think the difference lies, that the bible teaches that no one can really be stoic, we're all going to complain eventually, the way things go, we are human beings, we're not God we are emotional beings that are capable of having it take the better of them
A Christian’s purpose is to bring glory to God but Christians are humans so “purpose” is not the same as “human nature”. Humans nature is skewed towards self-preservation so they don’t really align in that aspect.
Very well done. I also saw many Christian concepts in Stoicism but was troubled by its metaphysics/theology: that the Stoic god is literally the universe and not a God separate and apart from it. I had not noticed the additional conflict between the Stoic view of what can be achieved through reason and the Christian view of what requires faith despite reason. Thanks for your well supported analysis.
Not to mention the fundamental belief behind stoicism is that all men are good. Whereas in Christianity men are inherently corrupted. Through stoicism, the only thing that makes good and evil is your judgment on events. Where as Christianity, good and evil exist separate from your mental infrastructure. With Christianity, salvation is had through accepting someone else sacrificed and will continue to sacrifice for your wrong doing and pain. Stoicism, you are the sacrifice, suffering is a mental choice and overcoming it is virtue.
However, in both, mercy is the highest virtue.
And likely some part of god.
@m0tay Uhh, how could you believe in both if the fundamental belief behind stoicism is that all men are good. Whereas in Christianity , the belief is that men are inherently corrupted. A stoic would walk past a beggar because hardship is thought to be good. A Christian would donate money due to the belief in charity. You don’t need to have faith in anything if you’re a stoic. But to be Christian, you must believe in Jeebus.
@@royromano9792 Didn't the majority of the stoics believe in the gods? Also, if you're a stoic, of course you'll need to have a metaphysical system. (Which atheists say that don't exist for some reason)
@@Lay-Man No gods necessary. The only metaphysical system needed is a moral code.
I can’t speak for the majority of stoics, but Marcus aurelius questioned the existence of the gods even on his death bed. And besides that, I’m trying to say, that stoicism, is opposing to Christianity. I’m not saying it’s opposing to whatever else.
Sounds like the serenity prayer.
The truth that Jesus was completely not a Stoic when HE said this *"Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani"* --> "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me"
good point
But that’s appealing to the human nature, because we’re social creatures, and he was at a point of need. ANY normal person would react similarly. Remember He’s compassionate and knows how we feel. We are to share each other’s burdens. She did that for us when he was on the cross. He felt alone, and forsaken
@@aristokriseas6034 na ah, if you are saying about human nature condition, then our emotion that has been eliminated by ancient philosophers and most of stoic is also human nature.
Jesus respects our emotions and also the value of suffering, while Stoic don't. Stoic sees the suffering from our inability perspective, while Jesus sees the suffering as His victorious work, as the process. In Christian, suffering is our core value to take HIS cross.
Stoic sees emotion as dangerous pattern that should be eliminated. While our Holy Spirit also works through our emotion.
good talk
I’d say yes. Stoicism and Christianity are absolutely compatible. For they both exhibit a strong importance when it comes to self-discipline, self-control etc. etc.
Edit: They’re both still different in many ways. But they do share some similarities. They also go about doing those similarities in their different ways.
I agree with some of this content but not all. This conversation stresses that we must leave it all to God, God however gave us free will to think and speak for ourselves. Are they saying we do not possess free will? We were not born wise, we develop wisdom from life experiences, be it good or bad. At the end of the day we must live for God, however God gave us a mind to be able to discern things on our own, God created us in his image and not the image of a robot. To dispel human wisdom would be contrary to God’s creation. Just my take, thank you for this video!
This was good
Like you said supplements Christianity with stoicism suggests that the gospel lacks some thing which is not true at all. It I do think with a little adjustment stood in and Christianity can coexist to an extent before taking too far. Stoicism suggests that we are all connected and serve the universe. Switch it with God. We all serve God and we are all connected through him as brothers and sister in Christ. And sometimes our desires align with Christ. I have an addiction and am reading scripture and enveloping my walk with Christ to conquer this. Not it’s not very stoic of me to share that I think but I’m here to give an example. This is a desire I have. As you follow Christ the sprint will give you new desires which you can then follow as you follow Christ. Stoicism even suggest you stop and contemplate denotes to see if they are good or not. As a Christian you can a follow this and see if this is a desire the Bible supports or not. I think you can follow some things in stoicism but you have to put it up against the Bible to see if it’s good or not as well as search scripture and see if it supports and idea or not to see if it’s dot
Thing the Bible teaches you to follow. I just think in stoicism it’s clearer and more understandable. The Bible can be hard to understand at times but should be first and foremost regardless.
I kinda think they both complement themselves rather than contradict I feel like stoicism is a smaller part in the greater whole which is Christianity... kind of like a quarter part of a circle stoicism is the smaller part of the bigger whole...I don't know if that makes sense
Personally I believe that Christianity can be practiced in 3 ways nowadays, the false way, the neutral way and the true way.
True way, being a somewhat Kirerkegaard-esque belief in God with absolute faith and no judgement outside God's will whatsoever.
Neutral way, being a way of going through life as a good man (with an attached belief on paper), which by proxy makes you a somewhat good Christian.
And the false way, being a delusional and goody two shoes Christian, somewhat like the many TV preachers advertise belief.
Stoicism in my opinion in a way builds on the neutral way of worship which is the 2nd most common way nowadays after the false way. So in a sense, it's somewhat worth it looking into it further for the average man because it makes the average man avoid the temptations of the easy way out.
amen.
There are links between Stoicism and Christianity- the early Church fathers were aware of Stoicism. Also we have Neostoicism and the work of Justus Lipsius. There have been many Christian philosophers.
Profane may also be interpreted as simply not religious. It does not necessarily imply profanity or vulgarity.
Some saw God’s attributes in the creation (consider Romans 1) and responded with God’s wisdom and nature. Many Gentile Stoics readily accepted the Christ, perhaps because the person of the Christ was so recognisable as the source of the wisdom the Stoics lived by.
I like that stoicism is just philosophy. Whereas with Buddhism, though I respect many of the teachings, is that it is religion. Not a fan of RH or that other dude, really. It feels like they are trying to monetize the teachings. I just enjoy the works and always look to the Gospel for true guidance.
It is an interesting argument that was made about Christianity being sufficient and enough. Although I agree , I don’t find that as a good argument to not become more stoic. Also most stoics use stoicism as a mental crutch for life, not as a theology. Also what would you say to Christians who study Leadership books? These seem to be filled with philosophical principles that are not all biblical. This was oversimplified for me.
What about Jesus being the “logos” in flesh?
Also there are many verses that speak of a change of perception, like putting your mind on heavenly things etc.
But then if you assess stoicism in the same way?
" I just have faith that stoicism is the truth. I didn't use my intellect. I didn't have to be rational. I just know. Aurelius and Epictetus revealed the truth to Me."
It sounds like you’re implying that Christians are devoid of using reason and intellect in their beliefs?
23:32 It makes me sad that human wisdom is devalued like this.
But then again, if you practiced human wisdom it would lesson the chance of practicing faith.
All the sudden you realize that the you don't need to fear god to be a great human being, good job for stepping outside your box
Correct me if im wrong, but doesnt the bible say something like "it is not enough to be a good person(aka good deeds), but through faith alone that one enters the kingdom"?
Stoicism offers far more in terms of practical application than does Christianity.
How so?
That's a good point. A lot of the Bible has layered meanings.
@@antidepressant11 read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Stoicism is older than Christianity. Stoicism is a life philosophy that puts you in the driver's seat. Christianity is about someone else having the control over saving you , so long as you believe in their fiction.
@@gianthills I happen to believe in that so called fiction you refer to.
@@antidepressant11 believe what you want. a belief isn't a fact of science.
I believe Stoicism resonates with Menis because God created certain laws into man and our Universe in irder for Man to flourish. Ancient philosophers recognized many of these because they observed how man lived successfully. What the Stoics missed was Jesus always pointing to the Father and himself as the Truth. And ultimately our lives here are worthless unless there is an afterlife and jusgement, and if thats the case then living our lives as WE see fit no matter who it hurts is just as justifiable as anyother life. As a believer i know this is an empty hollow life.
-Man’s individual consciousness is uncreated and existed in an unorganized space, outside The Father’s Kingdom prior to the creation of the spirit body.(Doctrine and Covenants 93:29)
-The creation of man’s spirit body… or in other words, man is the spirit body… that holds the individual consciousness. The start of the learning journey, to eventually become as The Father. (Genesis 1:26)
-Male is created physically. (Genesis 2:7)
-Female is created physically (Genesis 2:22)
-Physical life in earth is the step in the journey of eternal growth that we become as The Son. (Luke 6:40, John 6:63, John 17:6,17)
-In Paradise teaching will continue, so that those who were not kingdom citizens (non-hypocrites who had pure hearts although they didn’t follow The King) in the earth might become such, and that those who became as The Son might become as The Father (John 5:25,26, Matt 5:48, John 17:23)
-After time and growth in Paradise, judgement will occur to determine which of the many Kingdoms of The Father the individuals will end up in, based on their growth. (John 5:29, John 14:2, John 7:24, 2 Nephi 29:11, 3 Nephi 27:26)
As man now is, God once was.
As God now is, Man may become.
Not all philosophy rely on reason to reach the 'truth', for example Eastern philosophy such as Daoism and Buddhism integrate non-rational principles.
An hour to say "no"? Just say no.
Thank you so much guys you definitely saved me from relying on man's wisdom
This is a little puzzling: I believe in Jesus absolutely, and he is my savior. Yet, Stoicism has by far done to improve my life and bring me happiness.
That's been my experience too! I know right. Go figure.
Will you recommend a text if I want to learn more about embracing a stoic mindset when it comes to accepting that God is in control ?
Christianity ? Which one ? There are 100 plus different christian denominations ? Are we supposed to forget about all of them when you use the word " Christianity " They all have different beliefs and traditions. Some even have their own version of the bible
The problem I find with Sola scriptura Christian thinking is there is unquestioning belief in the Bible. Step 1 the Bible is the absolute truth. If I read it, I know the whole truth.
The truth is more complex than the Bible.
What is truth?
I don’t think many Christians believe the Bible contains all truth. Christians tend to believe it contains all truth required to please God as well as how to be reconciled to Him. That said, many Christians such as Augustine believe that all truth is God’s truth and will not contradict God’s Word.
@@katherinepeterson-robertsJohn 14:6
Is the gospel about making the world better?
Is Jesus making the world better?
Or do you mean that one day He will come again and set the world in order?
I have to think about what you just said. Because in the end times, the world will be as evil as before the flood. And the world is well on its way.
And we are promised to suffer in this world, because it is not going to get better, but get worse.
So how is Jesus making it better?
Do you mean one life at a time? Saving people through faith in Christ?
redemption is not about making the world better, but about paying the price for the sin of the world. Is that the better you are thinking of?
pain and suffering are products of the sin of mankind.
and one day ever tear will be wiped away. is that what you mean?
There is an "already, but not yet" aspect to God's kingdom. We pray for God's will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. We work everyday to be little bits of the new creation as we do the good works God has prepared for us to do. There is a sense in which the world will not be better until Jesus comes and makes all things new. However, our little piece of the world should certainly be getting better through Spirit-filled people living and working for the glory of God and the good of our neighbors.
I believe stoicism influenced Christianity. Christian martyrs embrace a stoic life during the persecution of Christianity. Yes stoicism compatible with Christianity
I don’t like to criticise you but several points need to be made. There is a significant difference between modern neo-Stoicism which is atheistic and traditional Stoicism which was not. I am more than a little surprised that you discuss Stoicism and Christianity and do not talk about Logos - a reality that was central to St John’s understanding of Jesus and was central to Stoicism. In some respects Jesus is similar to a Stoic sage - an ideal figure and never seen in life before the incarnation. Traditional Stoicism is religious. You paint a false view of Epicurus and indeed many have found strong resonances between the letters of Paul and of Epicurus. Both Stoics and Epicureans became Christians and seem to have done so quite naturally. The Greek and Roman philosophers can be seen as preparing the world for the Gospel. The problem at the moment is that contemporary Christianity (particularly of the US variety) is appealing less and less - it is superficial with an easy believism and the prosperity gospel is dominant. An understanding of both Stoicism and Epicureanism will help in deepening Christian faith - and will lead to Jesus as Logos and to a deep Johannine faith in Jesus.
no, human wisdom and worldly wisdom does not lead to Christ
logos or no logos
When John writes about Jesus being the Word of God Who was with God in the beginning, he was laying a foundational truth that the world ignores: that anything created could never be greater than the Creator.
The humility of stoicism, for example, is to be humble before other humans, but Christ calls us to repentance that can only come from humility before God.
I am about 24 minutes into this so far, and you guys are basically stating that the bible is a complete source of information and no other sources are needed. I am going to disagree, and here is why: there are so many parts of the bible where we do not knoa certain information that was widely known in those times. A great example (especially for this subject) is
John 1:1 In the beginning, there was the word. And word was with God, and the word was God.
See, without understanding the context of LOGOS, the meaning of this verse is lost to time. John could have chose alot of words besides logos. I believe he did so on purpose.
I wonder if the apostlic denomination exists because so few devote Christians refuse to study anything besides the bible.....
... just recently learning people view stoicism as a religion?
Ive been reading up on this and I guess some people refer to it as a religious philosophy? However, I do not see this connection because there is no mention of creation, or afterlife throughout stoic thought practices. Also, there are many mentions of God through stoic writings. I was quite surprised to see so many articles and videos on the compatibility of Christianity and Stoisicm just because ive always seen stoicism as a way of dealing with lifes' struggles, not a challenge to biblical verbage.
@@GLicHur But Christianity is all about living and dealing with the problems of life too. See, some people (christians too!) think that it's all about the afterlife, but it's not really true.
@@GLicHur Also doesn't stoicism have this idea of the logos and the order of nature? We're a part of the universe, we should follow the nature and the will of the gods? (I'm just diving into stoicism)
"every philosophy makes sense", I get what you're saying, but that's not true at all, there are plenty of philosophies that make, absolutely no sense, while they're still out there... here in my country (Brazil) we have a saying "there's a crazy person for everything" (tem louco para tudo) which means, there are people who'll believe or do insane things... and thats true of philosophies, there are insane philosophies out there, but still there are crazy people who'll believe them
Christianity is Stoicism completed. Stoicism was an incomplete theology that needed Christ to show them the Father.
You guys start off with a major fail. The verb stoic and the philosophy Stoicism are not the same and are not related. Stoicism is about controlling how we react to what happens, not being void of emotions.
Christianity is superior to stoicism and all the other philosophies. In the book of acts, Paul goes to Athens and corrects the stoics and all the other philosophers..
While I really do appreciate the attempt and the discussion, they have severe misconceptions about Stoicism.
Such as?
My Narcissist Mother sent Me this, because She believes She is and has silently suffered like Jesus. WON'T BE WATCHING! 🤣🤣
I find very ironic that you are arguing against philosophy through philosophy: it's self-refuting. If you put out reason and logic how do you know that Christianity is the only true religion and not the others? By the way I am making this criticism against you as a christian myself. I do not find positive or helpful for Christianity that kind of approach against philosophy.
ABSOLUTELY NOT , STOICISM IS INTRINSIC MORALITY
Please don't waste your time with this video.. They are not knowledgeable enough to to be talking about the subject and decided to talk about it and tell others what to do. Curb your ego and bring an expert instead of talking from inside a bubble.
Who is the expert on stoicism?
@@richardjohnson6140 are you trolling ?seriously... A quick Google search and you'll find several people that has extensively studied the subject and some with high credentials. You're welcome
I have to agree with you. How can they discuss Christianity and Stoicism and not mention the Logos? The Logos is central to both the Stoics and St John. Their view of Epicurus is wrong - there are strong resonances between Epicurus and Paul. In reality the Stoics and Epicureans became Christians fairly naturally.
@@adrianthomas1473 I'm Christian. I see that lots of Christians miss the point because of the " christian bubble of ignorance, prejudice and judgement". Some people see the study of philosophy pointless and sometimes even a sin.
@@thejedibunny4802 yes - and this is why contemporary Christianity is attracting fewer adherents - the teachings are now superficial and simplistic and who would now look to the average Christian teacher for deep wisdom? It’s very sad. And Christians are so very argumentative.