Well, it was great having this chat ;) LOL , jokes aside I'm glad that you answered yourself there. It's a shame that you don't play Jazz much anymore, as this (and your past experience of learning it) is what gives you the edge over most legato players. Your jazz is actually very classy. Tim Lerch is the bomb, but crack on man. Shot for the valuable info and references.
Yeah really resonate with this, grateful for theory I got from my jazz degree but rarely play straight jazz. I much prefer fusion sounds with bends and other techniques, the guitar is such an expansive and versatile instrument it seemed almost limiting to just play flat sounds on a hollow body. I do however really like listening to jazz and often draw from it when playing other genres.
Can you explain to me why most ‘traditional’ jazz guitar tone is so dark? Even with players today I’ve heard it is because in a combo setting they ideally want a strong fundamental to be heard- is that it?
@@Lomoholga2 flat wounds tend to have a darker more mellow tone than traditional electric guitar strings which are brighter and mellow over time. When I was playing jazz I used flat wounds to get a duller darker tone, also depending on the setting I would take top and mids of the amp, think an organ trio with the guitar replacing the organ in the mix. That’s just my take, I’m sure there are many players with a different approach.
@ I totally understand the *how* of the dark sound- it’s the *why* I’m having trouble with! I suspect that a competent player coming in with a non-dark and for sure a bright sound would be frowned upon as it seems that dark/muddy is the cliche jazz guitar tone
Well I guess, with the trad sound it’s an emulation of those before, it’s called traditional jazz for a reason and whilst some players develop the sound in different ways if your playing jazz in a traditional way I’m guessing you will be leaning toward the tone of old. That’s my pounds worth anyway. ✌️
this is a very good direction that you're planning to head toward ...i would love to see more content on Jazz Tunes n how you analyse jazz chords progression & build an improv from your particular background ...this take was stunning 🚀
Wow. I don’t know the first thing about jazz. But usually what holds me at arms length is horrible guitar tone many jazz players have. They can play the notes but it just doesn’t get the guitar singing. I could listen to you play jazz all day though. Theory, feel and tone! Lovely 🙌
Very Good video, nice Dinner music as we sometimes called it. I remember in the 70's Going with a friend one night to a bar restaurant he used to work at part time, JAZZ band they were great, LOW volume. Well the Genre has to be still popular look at Julian Lage. I was/am a big Johnny Smith and Wes Montgomery Fan. I have Howard roberts albums, because he was a columnist in Guitar Player magazine for years. Oh Lenny Breau too, was most Excellent. And the Legendary JOE PASS.
Julian Lage is pretty loud and can make his guitar get raunchy at times. Saw him live in NYC this year. Definitely not "dinner music", although I know what you mean and actually enjoy that mode of performance.
@@joeltunnah I think the term Dinner Music came from alot of the old Jazz records that were when a LIVE performance, you could hear in the backround, the sounds of the Dinner patrons. I know there is at least one Wes Montgomery record where you can hear it.
ATTENTION JOHN CORDY ! Young man, in the last 2 years, your musicality has begun to rise to the level of your obvious skills. Your improvisations have become markedly more idea based, and much less noodley. More and more, your playing reveals, that ( in addition to being a capable player) you are a genuinely caring and thoughtful man, who actually has something to say. You have reached the point in your life, where artists discover that the REAL artistic super-powers are SINCERITY and AUTHENTICITY , which assure the communicative connection between the listener and the player. You are smart (and admirable) to accept that you must play popular music to support your young family, but don't give up on your improvised music, because (by any stylistic category) it has real artistic VALUE to the listeners we SERVE. Remember Monk's profound insight -> "The genius, is the man most like himself" !
To anyone that reads this, I really wish I understood how to play Kurt Rosenwinkel‘s rendition of the Horace Silver song, “peace”… It’s available here on UA-cam
You should get into bossa. However not like a jazzier play 4/4 but 2/4. Hope to hear a bossa played by you👍you’re such a versatile player with an enormous feel!
John, it's not a question of "jazz versus no jazz," but rather (just like with rock) what kind of jazz suits you best? The Autumn in New York was lovely, but only in its very last few moments sounded akin to your usual exquisite playing. Something higher velocity, with more intricate voicing and dynamics, could possibly capture your interest better. At least one comment below agrees with me that Pat Metheny might be a better jazz connection for you than slow ballads.
I think Tim's stuff is really good. I think it's slightly misguided how many of Ted Greene's fans or past students buy a yellow telecaster and adopt his persona though. Although I can see the attraction to Ted's music. To my ear the reason Ted's stuff sounds so good is mostly because he wasn't playing "Jazz" he was playing popular songs that sound really good - typically from outside guitar genres - and then making them a bit jazzy by choice of harmony. That choice of pretty sounding song with a pretty melody create something that sounded pretty and as a result is going to sound better than most chord melody jazz guitar which, unfortunately, sounds like jazz. Stuff like Gershwin, Send in the clowns, Beatles tunes (which Jeff Beck did a similar thing to showcase his approach to guitar but with Day in the life), Christmas songs and, of course, Ted could improvise Bach counterpoint (albeit as he admitted he's breaking the 'rules' as he does it but it sounds incredible) All of which sounded better than Jazz - for values of better where the average audience would think it sounds pretty or melodic and, perhaps most importantly, familiar. So, my advice, if you want to play jazz to a big audience, play a song they know and give it a jazzover - and Ted's premise for lifting it above people who just add 7ths, 9ths, 11ths or substitute a chord here or there was to create counterpoint with voice lines. The bass and melody voices being the main ones, and the middle 2 voices are less important - but doing that on the guitar fretboard creates some chords and shapes that are ridiculously uncomfortable and hard to play. Sadly Ted didn't record a lot of music, and he didn't live at a time when high quality video was ubiquitous and thus the collection of Ted Greene's lessons and masterclasses is technically lacking because of VHS recordings etc.. Tim has the advantage of being able to record Ted's pieces with a better camera et al. A lot of people have improved the readability of the tabs and chord diagrams too. But I can't help thinking Ted's lesson "Finding your own voice and style" was lost on his students a little bit. Or he didn't do that lesson because, as I said, it's a group of yellow telecaster playing people acting chill. It's almost like they're doing an impression of Ted.
That's too bad.... When it comes to guitar, that's primarily what I listen to. Julian Lage, Barney Kessel, Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, Joe Pass, Charlie Christian, Emily Remler, Bill Frisell, and other old school players....
As a New Yorker, yes but gigs here don’t pay well but, I guess where do they? Yeah John, come visit Park Slope Brooklyn where I live. It’s very laid back and so many jazz guitarists/musicians live here in the neighborhood. Basically, we all hang out in coffee shops and run into each other (that’s how I met Kreisberg yrs ago and a lot of others). So yeah, come visit sometime and we’ll get you a gig somewhere but, it might only pay $100. But, I’m sure you have a lot of viewers here so I’m sure we can do better for you, probably a lot better! Coincidentally most of my gigs are solo jazz guitar at restaurants, etc and play mostly ballads. Personally, there’s nothing better than a ballad to tell your story.
A friend of mine moved here (NYC) from Austin, back in the ‘80s. Excellent keyboard player. He was making a good solid living in Austin but wanted to get into bebop. NYC was the place to be. After a couple of years playing with some of the best players around, he packed his bags and moved back to Austin. With a 2 year old son, he and his wife couldn’t afford to live here on the money he was making. The music was great and he was glad for the experience, but Austin wasn’t slummin’ it and he was able to make a living doing what he loved to do, again.
@@bobprince1539Austin is a legendary music town. I believe it supports live music more than NYC does as a whole. So many unbelievable musicians from Texas in general.
That was beautiful John. I love your phrasing over the changes. Those people on here saying what you’re playing is not jazz are out of touch. Jazz is not only bebop.
An awful lot of the best ‘non jazz’ guitar greats know how to play chord melody arrangements. It’s just improvised music rather than ‘jazz’ - especially when you get to the likes of Bill Frisell and John Schofield. You need a really good foundation to learn a tune in a week though. Still working on Autumn Leaves and I’ve been at it a year or so 🤪
I don't particularly want to become "A Jazz Player" per se BUT I do want to expand my musical knowledge, especially as it applies to guitar and bass. Plus, it can't harm to have a few standards under one's belt. It never seemed to hurt Pat Metheney or Jaco Pastorius ... As for "Labels" Nerdz ... Imposing definitions on the freedom of expression is somewhat onanistic in my opinion.
With jazz, there comes a point at which you accept - or concede - that the piano is the better instrument.The guitar is fine as part of an ensemble, but what is called 'chord melody' on the guitar is just 'playing normally' on the piano. I too gave up playing jazz (on the guitar) for this reason. My philosophy nowadays is to play to an instrument's strengths. For guitar that means rhythm-based work and the ability play in a highly expressive manner, with vibrato, slides, hammers, pulls, bends and so on. The guitar is much better for this than the piano...
It's a pity jazz players don't listen more to Charlie Christian. He bent strings! Apparently band leaders didn't employ guitarists much after Christian died, as they were relatively unimpressive. Pretty much all 'velvet hammer' style, good in its way, but not so much with the swing tunes making the majority of standards. Freddie Green played pretty much banjo style on guitar. The bands had horn sections, with saxes and trombones, sometimes violins, all of which could glissando. Django also bent notes, not so much but he also had a bouncy dancey style. Sure the later velvet hammer style guys got very technical, shreddy even, but it may go down well with other guitarists. less so with punters.
I know that reactions to tone are entirely subjective, i.e. you like what you like. By the same token, you can dislike whatever you want to dislike. And I have always detested "jazz tone" that rolls the highs off. What do you guys have against overtones and pick attack? Sounds like cotton wool in the ears to me.
Jazz guy here. Your playing is nice and soothing. I wouldn't call that jazz. That's more like soothing noodling. Jazz is more grounded in bebop. If it's modern, which is more analogous to what you're playing, I'd expect it to be grounded in more space (breaks between phrasing), independent phrases, and maybe a stronger reference to arpeggios. I rest on the mount top with the holy tablets.
With you total abilities I am sure you could play with Julian Lage easily. But you are even beyond that too. Do a connections video to what Phil Keaggy was doing in the early 70's, he was VERY JAZZ based player in a ROCK BAND.
You have great jazz tone. I like all your playing, but I really think this is some of your best. Hope to hear more.
Well, it was great having this chat ;) LOL , jokes aside I'm glad that you answered yourself there. It's a shame that you don't play Jazz much anymore, as this (and your past experience of learning it) is what gives you the edge over most legato players. Your jazz is actually very classy. Tim Lerch is the bomb, but crack on man. Shot for the valuable info and references.
That was sublime. If I could play jazz that well, I'd be doing nothing else.
Beautiful playing! More jazz thanks
Yeah really resonate with this, grateful for theory I got from my jazz degree but rarely play straight jazz. I much prefer fusion sounds with bends and other techniques, the guitar is such an expansive and versatile instrument it seemed almost limiting to just play flat sounds on a hollow body. I do however really like listening to jazz and often draw from it when playing other genres.
There’s a version of my playing autumn leaves on my channel, deffo not playing straight jazz on it though.😂
Can you explain to me why most ‘traditional’ jazz guitar tone is so dark? Even with players today
I’ve heard it is because in a combo setting they ideally want a strong fundamental to be heard- is that it?
@@Lomoholga2 flat wounds tend to have a darker more mellow tone than traditional electric guitar strings which are brighter and mellow over time. When I was playing jazz I used flat wounds to get a duller darker tone, also depending on the setting I would take top and mids of the amp, think an organ trio with the guitar replacing the organ in the mix. That’s just my take, I’m sure there are many players with a different approach.
@ I totally understand the *how* of the dark sound- it’s the *why* I’m having trouble with!
I suspect that a competent player coming in with a non-dark and for sure a bright sound would be frowned upon as it seems that dark/muddy is the cliche jazz guitar tone
Well I guess, with the trad sound it’s an emulation of those before, it’s called traditional jazz for a reason and whilst some players develop the sound in different ways if your playing jazz in a traditional way I’m guessing you will be leaning toward the tone of old. That’s my pounds worth anyway. ✌️
this is a very good direction that you're planning to head toward ...i would love to see more content on Jazz Tunes n how you analyse jazz chords progression & build an improv from your particular background ...this take was stunning 🚀
Wow. I don’t know the first thing about jazz. But usually what holds me at arms length is horrible guitar tone many jazz players have. They can play the notes but it just doesn’t get the guitar singing. I could listen to you play jazz all day though. Theory, feel and tone! Lovely 🙌
After looking after a child with chicken pox for the past few days. This was just the thing to calm my weary soul 👍
Very Good video, nice Dinner music as we sometimes called it. I remember in the 70's Going with a friend one night to a bar restaurant he used to work at part time, JAZZ band they were great, LOW volume. Well the Genre has to be still popular look at Julian Lage. I was/am a big Johnny Smith and Wes Montgomery Fan. I have Howard roberts albums, because he was a columnist in Guitar Player magazine for years. Oh Lenny Breau too, was most Excellent. And the Legendary JOE PASS.
Julian Lage is pretty loud and can make his guitar get raunchy at times. Saw him live in NYC this year. Definitely not "dinner music", although I know what you mean and actually enjoy that mode of performance.
@@joeltunnah I think the term Dinner Music came from alot of the old Jazz records that were when a LIVE performance, you could hear in the backround, the sounds of the Dinner patrons. I know there is at least one Wes Montgomery record where you can hear it.
ATTENTION JOHN CORDY ! Young man, in the last 2 years, your musicality has begun to rise to the level of your obvious skills. Your improvisations have become markedly more idea based, and much less noodley. More and more, your playing reveals, that ( in addition to being a capable player) you are a genuinely caring and thoughtful man, who actually has something to say. You have reached the point in your life, where artists discover that the REAL artistic super-powers are SINCERITY and AUTHENTICITY , which assure the communicative connection between the listener and the player. You are smart (and admirable) to accept that you must play popular music to support your young family, but don't give up on your improvised music, because (by any stylistic category) it has real artistic VALUE to the listeners we SERVE. Remember Monk's profound insight -> "The genius, is the man most like himself" !
John, This was beautiful!!!
Yep....Tim is the man!!
Love your playing John. And the tone you have on the es175 is just ... so good. Could you please tell me what year your Gibson ES175 is ? Thanks!
Brilliant, smooth and purposful!
That’s was incredible……..loved it
"Autumn in New York while Elodie slept" is a pretty god song title 🙂 Great playing, very elegant lines
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny." - Frank Zappa
Snagging on patreon. Totally worth it gang!
165 is back!
Well, I guess jazz chord melody playing is like riding a bike-you sure jumped right back on the saddle! Lovely arrangement! And a welcome return. -Tom
AND... are you playing through an amp (which) ? OR through a modeler ?
I really like your compressed, slightly dirty jazz tone.
To anyone that reads this, I really wish I understood how to play Kurt Rosenwinkel‘s rendition of the Horace Silver song, “peace”…
It’s available here on UA-cam
You should get into bossa. However not like a jazzier play 4/4 but 2/4. Hope to hear a bossa played by you👍you’re such a versatile player with an enormous feel!
Can you recommend a favourite track to play?
ES-165? Amiright? I had a tobacco burst Herb Ellis model. Great tone in this video and nice clean playing.
I must recommend backing tracks on Phil Wilkinson’s UA-cam channel. Absolutely top notch.
John, it's not a question of "jazz versus no jazz," but rather (just like with rock) what kind of jazz suits you best? The Autumn in New York was lovely, but only in its very last few moments sounded akin to your usual exquisite playing. Something higher velocity, with more intricate voicing and dynamics, could possibly capture your interest better. At least one comment below agrees with me that Pat Metheny might be a better jazz connection for you than slow ballads.
He explains in the video
I think Tim's stuff is really good. I think it's slightly misguided how many of Ted Greene's fans or past students buy a yellow telecaster and adopt his persona though. Although I can see the attraction to Ted's music. To my ear the reason Ted's stuff sounds so good is mostly because he wasn't playing "Jazz" he was playing popular songs that sound really good - typically from outside guitar genres - and then making them a bit jazzy by choice of harmony. That choice of pretty sounding song with a pretty melody create something that sounded pretty and as a result is going to sound better than most chord melody jazz guitar which, unfortunately, sounds like jazz. Stuff like Gershwin, Send in the clowns, Beatles tunes (which Jeff Beck did a similar thing to showcase his approach to guitar but with Day in the life), Christmas songs and, of course, Ted could improvise Bach counterpoint (albeit as he admitted he's breaking the 'rules' as he does it but it sounds incredible) All of which sounded better than Jazz - for values of better where the average audience would think it sounds pretty or melodic and, perhaps most importantly, familiar.
So, my advice, if you want to play jazz to a big audience, play a song they know and give it a jazzover - and Ted's premise for lifting it above people who just add 7ths, 9ths, 11ths or substitute a chord here or there was to create counterpoint with voice lines. The bass and melody voices being the main ones, and the middle 2 voices are less important - but doing that on the guitar fretboard creates some chords and shapes that are ridiculously uncomfortable and hard to play.
Sadly Ted didn't record a lot of music, and he didn't live at a time when high quality video was ubiquitous and thus the collection of Ted Greene's lessons and masterclasses is technically lacking because of VHS recordings etc.. Tim has the advantage of being able to record Ted's pieces with a better camera et al. A lot of people have improved the readability of the tabs and chord diagrams too.
But I can't help thinking Ted's lesson "Finding your own voice and style" was lost on his students a little bit. Or he didn't do that lesson because, as I said, it's a group of yellow telecaster playing people acting chill. It's almost like they're doing an impression of Ted.
That's too bad.... When it comes to guitar, that's primarily what I listen to. Julian Lage, Barney Kessel, Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, Joe Pass, Charlie Christian, Emily Remler, Bill Frisell, and other old school players....
It's jazz. It has all of the components: tone, improvization, and breath.
Jonathan Kreisberg, Night Songs 👍
Kreisberg's playing has everything ! ( That bastard ! )
Next weeks headline: “I started playing jazz again”
What a cool song. I enjoyed it. I’m not even into Jazz.
can you do some brazilian jazz standards that aren't gfi? like corcovado or deasifinado? i feel like theyd fit your style well good
Listen to (or better yet see live) Julian Lage play, and your conception of what is "jazz" guitar may change.
John you should sell all your amps, Fractals and Helix’s and move to New York and only play Jazz. 😅 Who agrees with me???
As a New Yorker, yes but gigs here don’t pay well but, I guess where do they? Yeah John, come visit Park Slope Brooklyn where I live. It’s very laid back and so many jazz guitarists/musicians live here in the neighborhood. Basically, we all hang out in coffee shops and run into each other (that’s how I met Kreisberg yrs ago and a lot of others). So yeah, come visit sometime and we’ll get you a gig somewhere but, it might only pay $100. But, I’m sure you have a lot of viewers here so I’m sure we can do better for you, probably a lot better! Coincidentally most of my gigs are solo jazz guitar at restaurants, etc and play mostly ballads. Personally, there’s nothing better than a ballad to tell your story.
A friend of mine moved here (NYC) from Austin, back in the ‘80s. Excellent keyboard player. He was making a good solid living in Austin but wanted to get into bebop. NYC was the place to be.
After a couple of years playing with some of the best players around, he packed his bags and moved back to Austin.
With a 2 year old son, he and his wife couldn’t afford to live here on the money he was making. The music was great and he was glad for the experience, but Austin wasn’t slummin’ it and he was able to make a living doing what he loved to do, again.
@@bobprince1539Austin is a legendary music town. I believe it supports live music more than NYC does as a whole. So many unbelievable musicians from Texas in general.
That was beautiful John. I love your phrasing over the changes. Those people on here saying what you’re playing is not jazz are out of touch. Jazz is not only bebop.
An awful lot of the best ‘non jazz’ guitar greats know how to play chord melody arrangements. It’s just improvised music rather than ‘jazz’ - especially when you get to the likes of Bill Frisell and John Schofield. You need a really good foundation to learn a tune in a week though. Still working on Autumn Leaves and I’ve been at it a year or so 🤪
I don't particularly want to become "A Jazz Player" per se BUT I do want to expand my musical knowledge, especially as it applies to guitar and bass.
Plus, it can't harm to have a few standards under one's belt.
It never seemed to hurt Pat Metheney or Jaco Pastorius ...
As for "Labels" Nerdz ...
Imposing definitions on the freedom of expression is somewhat onanistic in my opinion.
I always say it, and I’ll say it again. I think you sound best on 24.75 inch scale lengths.
With jazz, there comes a point at which you accept - or concede - that the piano is the better instrument.The guitar is fine as part of an ensemble, but what is called 'chord melody' on the guitar is just 'playing normally' on the piano. I too gave up playing jazz (on the guitar) for this reason.
My philosophy nowadays is to play to an instrument's strengths. For guitar that means rhythm-based work and the ability play in a highly expressive manner, with vibrato, slides, hammers, pulls, bends and so on. The guitar is much better for this than the piano...
you are jazz adjacent
It's a pity jazz players don't listen more to Charlie Christian. He bent strings! Apparently band leaders didn't employ guitarists much after Christian died, as they were relatively unimpressive. Pretty much all 'velvet hammer' style, good in its way, but not so much with the swing tunes making the majority of standards. Freddie Green played pretty much banjo style on guitar. The bands had horn sections, with saxes and trombones, sometimes violins, all of which could glissando. Django also bent notes, not so much but he also had a bouncy dancey style. Sure the later velvet hammer style guys got very technical, shreddy even, but it may go down well with other guitarists. less so with punters.
Johnny Hates Jazz!
Tasty… 👍
That was tasteful. I’ve been enjoying your jazz playing immensely. Wonderful touch and tone. Keep ‘em coming.
I know that reactions to tone are entirely subjective, i.e. you like what you like. By the same token, you can dislike whatever you want to dislike. And I have always detested "jazz tone" that rolls the highs off. What do you guys have against overtones and pick attack? Sounds like cotton wool in the ears to me.
Don’t not play jazz JNC.
Double negative just to make a point.
Jazz guy here. Your playing is nice and soothing. I wouldn't call that jazz. That's more like soothing noodling. Jazz is more grounded in bebop. If it's modern, which is more analogous to what you're playing, I'd expect it to be grounded in more space (breaks between phrasing), independent phrases, and maybe a stronger reference to arpeggios. I rest on the mount top with the holy tablets.
Just bc it’s a semi hollow body does not make it jazz…
Ouch
Post a video of you playing the same tune and show us how it should be done
Jazz predates bop, so I’m not sure if your criticism of his ballad arrangement is humor, a troll, an odd flex, or just misguided.
@ it could be an odd flex…
With you total abilities I am sure you could play with Julian Lage easily. But you are even beyond that too. Do a connections video to what Phil Keaggy was doing in the early 70's, he was VERY JAZZ based player in a ROCK BAND.
You overthink things too much mate…..
To be fair NO ONE should play jazz, it's an abomination.
It should be banned as an abuse to ears.
Jazz is just an intellectual exercise in justifying playing out of key
Jazz on a “ye olde” 175 can be twee. You are right to look elsewhere.
Most Modern Jazz is garbage. Jazz basically died at the end of the 1970s. Rock n' Roll died in 2010, Hip-hop in 2000.