Octopus are offering 20% off heat pumps till the end of the year PLUS if you use my refferal code on evnick.com/energy your get to split £200 with me, link to get an instant quote also at my website
I chose a Mitsubishi Ecodan. Achieving really good COP on in a 1950's built house with cavity walls. Works really well with Home Assistant if the dongle is replaced with a local one. A 6kw unit. Maybe should be 5kw, but I do intend to extend and would suggest using a local provider. Octopus suggested a 4kw unit for a 3 bed semi. The communication was poor.
An issue I found when we had a fault is that you cant read the fault codes throught app. You have to go into installer mode. Im assuming they will eventually do this remotely.
If you are in a fairly new home, why did you need a high temp unit? I've had my heat pump survey carried out and they recommended a Cosy 10 as my heat loss was 5.87kW (1989 house with an extension and cavity wall insulation etc.)so a bit tight on the Cosy 6. I'm minded to go with the Daikin personally as they do an 8kW version and 10kW seems massively overkill. I'm also not liking the idea of no internal display for the Cosy. Final proposal due in the next day or so and will most likely be using your referral code 😉
All heat pumps will be “high temperature” soon enough as we move to the new gas, although it’s able to reach higher temps doesn’t mean you have to run it at then levels, compared to dakins installed by octopus the cop is about on par with them… regarding your heat loss its worth asking about increasing your loft insulation as your cost but it might drop you much much lower than you think… ps thanks for considering using my code means a lot
@@NicolasRaimo the extended part of the house is already at 300mm loft insulation and have 200mm in the original part, which I could/should top up a little more. Already have had cavity wall injection to the original part of the house and new double glazing a few years ago too. I don't think there's much more that I could do that would make enough of a difference to get the heat loss down much further than it is. Speaking with the surveyor and he was mentioning the distances required to vents/air bricks that the Cosy needed a little more room away from them, which I assume is due to the propane for the high temp units. Where I'd ideally like the pump to go, the Cosy is a no, but the Daikin is a yes. Out of curiosity (probably already mentioned in one of your other videos but I can't remember) what was the heat loss on your place?
You sound like you have a similar house and hence heat loss as mine, and have some of the same questions. You might want to get a second option on your heat loss and/or calculate it yourself with the available online tools. You don't want to oversize as that causes extra cycling in milder temperatures.
Thanks Nick. They plan to install a Daikin in place of my boiler but that's not going to be for a few months as planning permission is required first. I get that they're using AI essentially to control the flow temperature and that's good in a way, but what I don't like about solutions like that is they usually don't tell you why the AI systems are making the decisions they are making; I guess I'm saying I don't like black boxes. Also it seems very odd to have manual controls for a system in your loft - that seems to be the case? You may not have to access them often, but if you do need to access them in an emergency - WiFi has failed for whatever reason, for example - and you can't use a loft ladder, that would seem to be a bit of a problem.
You said you were going to explain why one might want to go for the Cosy over the Daikin, which is why I listened - but you did not explain! Not sure what use it is having the boost controls on the hub in the loft or even the emergency immersion heater. Should be accessible! LOL I would still like to know Octopus' technical explanation (with proof) meaning it was absolutely necessary? The Cosy is supposed to overcome some so of the limitation of other systems. Cosy pods should be in theory be limited to no use with a properly designed and installed system - they sound like digital TRVs that can't even control individual rads! And if the rads are the right size and balanced correctly to match the room heat loss and desired temp (open circuit) then they will not be necessary. This will work at their most efficient this way and SCOPs can go well above 4. Everything I hear about the Cosy solution appears to be a compromise, i.e. not the most efficient. Not being able to change the hot water temp is crazy! You must be able to do this somehow? That 3.51 COP for October (which was pretty mild) could have been much better. Like I said, how does this compare to the Daikin? Which is therefore the best?
Boost is a user control yes it’s going to be fine and warm for 99% of people but sometimes people want control of turning it up that’s what cosy does, it only controls zones so most homes be 1 single zone and the pods will just turn entire house on.
Is there any financial advantage in buying and maintaining a heat pump purely for hot water in a household with no central heating and weekly average energy costs of around £25, including EV recharging? I doubt it, but you might know better. And thanks for the video, Nicolas.
I would be very reluctant to have any system thats tied to a manufacturer or supplier. You say youre locked out of many features but Octopus can change them, what happens if Octopus go under or decide that your version of heatpump will no longer be supported? You say your internet never goes down etc, IF that's the case you've very lucky, roadworks, men digging holes and exchange faults have all affected my leased line and internet service. British Gas with their 'hive' security system decided to stop supporting it and with little or no warning ceased the service this resulted in users CCTV system being rendered useless overnight. My system works without internet connection, I can control all of the parameters with no third party involvement.
Octopus will support cosy even if your not a customer, they will even fit them for non customers. My experience with octopus is they will support cosy6 for at least 15 years from the last one they sell. Regarding if internet goes down there’s local ways of access the schedule and the other settings hidden in installers menu and trust me it won’t be long before third parties start making interfaces for this
@ I’m not sure how can claim they will support it for at least 15 years, I would guess that’s what BG Hive Security thought too, hopefully you’re right but you are vulnerable to Octopus and its modus operandi, if they decide stop it seems you and all of the others are screwed. Why hide settings that you may need access to, that’s crazy and smacks of Octopus wanting to keep you under their control. My ECODAN system I can get to all of the settings, the installer menu and passwords are in the manual, that’s how it should be, I’ve bought it, it’s mine to do with as I please.
@@NicolasRaimo Can't see how that answers the question of what happens if Octopus go under - which a number of energy suppliers have done in recent years? Nobody can guarantee 5 years never mind 15! "My experience with octopus is they will support cosy6 for at least 15 years from the last one they sell." What do you mean by experience? If it's not in the contract they counts for very little.
@ they are the largest energy company In the UK, they have international business and not only survived the energy crisis but brought up took over customers from the failing ones.. Any company however can go bust of any heat pump or anything you buy, but a modbus controler could just replace the octopus system
@NicolasRaimo where did I say you didn't buy it with your own money? I refer to £100 for each referral, and whether that would result in you giving impartial feedback. I would say it wouldn't.
@@BROOMEngineeringTMIET You have a point. Maybe less so if there was a detailed comparison with the Daikin unit that Octopus also provide. Octopus provide a decent solution (when compared to the many cowboys out there) but definitely not the most optimum. You will need a Heat Geek Elite for that and it comes at a cost premium.
@darrenadams2640 it is the usual scenario with these things......a load of money has been thrown in the middle of the room, and now there is a scramble to get as much of it as possible. That is rarely going to result in optimal outcomes for consumers.
@darrenadams2640 I was talking to a refrigeration engineer yesterday and he is now regular trying to rectify installs where they have been poorly designed / installed by others, that company has gone with the money, and the customer is now having to pay for the remedial work, to get things working satisfactorily. Interestingly, he didn't have a heat pump in his property!
Could have been a bit neater with the wiring. 1 wire going through the board in a single hole, 2 sharing a hole and 2 just thrown over the top and side of the board without holes!
Octopus are offering 20% off heat pumps till the end of the year PLUS if you use my refferal code on evnick.com/energy your get to split £200 with me, link to get an instant quote also at my website
Does the referral code work with the heat pump 20% discount? It says in the terms and conditions it can't be used in conjunction with another offer?
@ yes it can be!
Happy to say we have shared your discount voucher and installation now completed by Octopus , love it 🐙
@@T8RTU cosy6??? Thanks!
Absolutely 👍 cosy6
@ welcome to team grit bin #heatPump
@ 🐙
I chose a Mitsubishi Ecodan.
Achieving really good COP on in a 1950's built house with cavity walls.
Works really well with Home Assistant if the dongle is replaced with a local one.
A 6kw unit. Maybe should be 5kw, but I do intend to extend and would suggest using a local provider.
Octopus suggested a 4kw unit for a 3 bed semi. The communication was poor.
An issue I found when we had a fault is that you cant read the fault codes throught app. You have to go into installer mode. Im assuming they will eventually do this remotely.
Octopus can see them their end! But yes something in app to tell user there’s a fault makes sense
Is there not local network API access or something? I need to be able to talk to it through home assistant ideally.
No am pushing for this, it’s got api access via octopus and that’s now in home assistant
3:57 🙋♂️ me haha, thanks for your help
Haha pleasure there’s been a few people
If you are in a fairly new home, why did you need a high temp unit? I've had my heat pump survey carried out and they recommended a Cosy 10 as my heat loss was 5.87kW (1989 house with an extension and cavity wall insulation etc.)so a bit tight on the Cosy 6. I'm minded to go with the Daikin personally as they do an 8kW version and 10kW seems massively overkill. I'm also not liking the idea of no internal display for the Cosy. Final proposal due in the next day or so and will most likely be using your referral code 😉
All heat pumps will be “high temperature” soon enough as we move to the new gas, although it’s able to reach higher temps doesn’t mean you have to run it at then levels, compared to dakins installed by octopus the cop is about on par with them… regarding your heat loss its worth asking about increasing your loft insulation as your cost but it might drop you much much lower than you think… ps thanks for considering using my code means a lot
@@NicolasRaimo the extended part of the house is already at 300mm loft insulation and have 200mm in the original part, which I could/should top up a little more. Already have had cavity wall injection to the original part of the house and new double glazing a few years ago too. I don't think there's much more that I could do that would make enough of a difference to get the heat loss down much further than it is. Speaking with the surveyor and he was mentioning the distances required to vents/air bricks that the Cosy needed a little more room away from them, which I assume is due to the propane for the high temp units. Where I'd ideally like the pump to go, the Cosy is a no, but the Daikin is a yes. Out of curiosity (probably already mentioned in one of your other videos but I can't remember) what was the heat loss on your place?
You sound like you have a similar house and hence heat loss as mine, and have some of the same questions. You might want to get a second option on your heat loss and/or calculate it yourself with the available online tools. You don't want to oversize as that causes extra cycling in milder temperatures.
Thanks Nick. They plan to install a Daikin in place of my boiler but that's not going to be for a few months as planning permission is required first. I get that they're using AI essentially to control the flow temperature and that's good in a way, but what I don't like about solutions like that is they usually don't tell you why the AI systems are making the decisions they are making; I guess I'm saying I don't like black boxes. Also it seems very odd to have manual controls for a system in your loft - that seems to be the case? You may not have to access them often, but if you do need to access them in an emergency - WiFi has failed for whatever reason, for example - and you can't use a loft ladder, that would seem to be a bit of a problem.
It’s in manual now not to fit them in loft ;)
Thanks for being kind of a guinea pig!
You said you were going to explain why one might want to go for the Cosy over the Daikin, which is why I listened - but you did not explain!
Not sure what use it is having the boost controls on the hub in the loft or even the emergency immersion heater. Should be accessible! LOL
I would still like to know Octopus' technical explanation (with proof) meaning it was absolutely necessary? The Cosy is supposed to overcome some so of the limitation of other systems.
Cosy pods should be in theory be limited to no use with a properly designed and installed system - they sound like digital TRVs that can't even control individual rads! And if the rads are the right size and balanced correctly to match the room heat loss and desired temp (open circuit) then they will not be necessary. This will work at their most efficient this way and SCOPs can go well above 4. Everything I hear about the Cosy solution appears to be a compromise, i.e. not the most efficient.
Not being able to change the hot water temp is crazy! You must be able to do this somehow?
That 3.51 COP for October (which was pretty mild) could have been much better.
Like I said, how does this compare to the Daikin? Which is therefore the best?
Boost is a user control yes it’s going to be fine and warm for 99% of people but sometimes people want control of turning it up that’s what cosy does, it only controls zones so most homes be 1 single zone and the pods will just turn entire house on.
Is there any financial advantage in buying and maintaining a heat pump purely for hot water in a household with no central heating and weekly average energy costs of around £25, including EV recharging? I doubt it, but you might know better. And thanks for the video, Nicolas.
They do hot water cylinders with built in heat pumps that might be a better fit
@@NicolasRaimo Thanks Nicolas. I didn't know about them. Shall investigate.🙂👍
I would be very reluctant to have any system thats tied to a manufacturer or supplier. You say youre locked out of many features but Octopus can change them, what happens if Octopus go under or decide that your version of heatpump will no longer be supported?
You say your internet never goes down etc, IF that's the case you've very lucky, roadworks, men digging holes and exchange faults have all affected my leased line and internet service. British Gas with their 'hive' security system decided to stop supporting it and with little or no warning ceased the service this resulted in users CCTV system being rendered useless overnight. My system works without internet connection, I can control all of the parameters with no third party involvement.
Octopus will support cosy even if your not a customer, they will even fit them for non customers. My experience with octopus is they will support cosy6 for at least 15 years from the last one they sell. Regarding if internet goes down there’s local ways of access the schedule and the other settings hidden in installers menu and trust me it won’t be long before third parties start making interfaces for this
@ I’m not sure how can claim they will support it for at least 15 years, I would guess that’s what BG Hive Security thought too, hopefully you’re right but you are vulnerable to Octopus and its modus operandi, if they decide stop it seems you and all of the others are screwed.
Why hide settings that you may need access to, that’s crazy and smacks of Octopus wanting to keep you under their control.
My ECODAN system I can get to all of the settings, the installer menu and passwords are in the manual, that’s how it should be, I’ve bought it, it’s mine to do with as I please.
@ they do provide you with all that in manual but sometimes telling customers how to mess with settings on UA-cam isn’t always a good idea so am not
@@NicolasRaimo Can't see how that answers the question of what happens if Octopus go under - which a number of energy suppliers have done in recent years? Nobody can guarantee 5 years never mind 15!
"My experience with octopus is they will support cosy6 for at least 15 years from the last one they sell."
What do you mean by experience? If it's not in the contract they counts for very little.
@ they are the largest energy company In the UK, they have international business and not only survived the energy crisis but brought up took over customers from the failing ones..
Any company however can go bust of any heat pump or anything you buy, but a modbus controler could just replace the octopus system
I have a question.........
Since when has someone receiving money for each referral been unbiased / impartial?
I brought the product with my own money, since when has someone with a vested interest against octopus given an unbiased and impartial comment…
@NicolasRaimo where did I say you didn't buy it with your own money?
I refer to £100 for each referral, and whether that would result in you giving impartial feedback.
I would say it wouldn't.
@@BROOMEngineeringTMIET You have a point. Maybe less so if there was a detailed comparison with the Daikin unit that Octopus also provide. Octopus provide a decent solution (when compared to the many cowboys out there) but definitely not the most optimum. You will need a Heat Geek Elite for that and it comes at a cost premium.
@darrenadams2640 it is the usual scenario with these things......a load of money has been thrown in the middle of the room, and now there is a scramble to get as much of it as possible.
That is rarely going to result in optimal outcomes for consumers.
@darrenadams2640 I was talking to a refrigeration engineer yesterday and he is now regular trying to rectify installs where they have been poorly designed / installed by others, that company has gone with the money, and the customer is now having to pay for the remedial work, to get things working satisfactorily.
Interestingly, he didn't have a heat pump in his property!
Could have been a bit neater with the wiring. 1 wire going through the board in a single hole, 2 sharing a hole and 2 just thrown over the top and side of the board without holes!
Or a local API from the phone to the cosy hub…
Pushing for this