Yes, Gael is praying to Cathia. The thing is Cathia *is* Velka, based on things like the Cathia chime scaling intelligence like the ds1 Velka talisman, and some other superficial things. Also, the crow demons and the corvians of DS3: AoA are indeed the same species. As such, when gael calls her mother of the forlorn, he is referring to Cathia (Velka) being the original host of the painted world and the unwanted dregs of the world living in there
I agree with OP. Caitha = Kette (chain in German). Velka's Remedy Sorcery is reinterpreted in-game as Caitha's Caressing Prayer (DS2)/Caressing Tears (DS3) Miracle. In Lindelt, they called her Caitha, in Lordran they called her Velka. It's possible her true name was obliviated like Gwyn's Firstborn.
I tried to make this assertion wayyyy back when I started ds3, ultimately I don’t think it’s the case, in dark souls 1 the pardoners worked for velka, and the tear stone rings had no goldly affiliation, however in ds2 while the tear stone rings become attributed to caitha; the black cleric set (pardoner) named judgement set in ds2, says they worked for an ancient god of sin who’s name is unknown, there’s a very clear distinction placed here, and in ds3 a statue of velka exists, yet Caitha is a predominant deity, it seems very much that they’re quite different, as much as I love velka, I feel she died long before dark souls 1, hunted by the gods, my best piece of evidence? The book of the guilty, Velka’s domain, doesn’t report back to her, and the pardoner can get you in good with gwyndolin after killing a certain someone in ds1, my implication being that gwyn committing the first sin, has the goddess of sin dealt with, to continue his lies, just like he did in the ringed city, why is there a dead pardoner in the painted world? Because they talk too much. Oswald will tell you about other sinners, who’s to say they wouldn’t spread word of a god’s sin, which of course would damage the image and reputation of such a god
@@core-nix1885remedy is not associated with velka, it was created by a woman named Yulva, who is from new londo, here’s the text “Sorcery of the red-robed Yulva, one of the Sealers of New Londo. Reduce bleeding and poison build-up, and undo various poisonous effects. One of the New Londo's unique healing sorceries. Perhaps she abandoned her Sealer duty to take her healing arts back to Blighttown.” So I believe there isn’t an association there at all
Bruv same here, I can personally immerse myself more in DS2's way more, it just has this dark mystical melancholy type of vibes that are easier to relate to
@@Etticos.Most of the hate for Dark Souls 2 stems from the gameplay being an all around downgrade from Dark Souls 1 and even Demon’s Souls. The lore is one thing but most people don’t care much for it and dislike the game because it doesn’t feel good to play.
Man you've quickly become one of my current favourite lore guys, the way you delve into secondary or even tertiary topics with such passion and truth really reminds me why I love these games and you make me want to play them again lmao Keep at it G!
I had a similar yet different theory. It should be noted that alot of people forget when discussing the Crow Demons that them being Velka's worshippers was their original concept; not their current one. Though we know they are likely related to her, we must stress that we do not know what that relation is. The Forlorn of Ds2, I think, cannot be the Forlorn of 3, for the simple fact that they no longer possess a physical body capable of transformation, or interbreeding. The horror of their existence is precisely that; they no longer possess form, identity, origin. However, this does not mean they are not related to them, though it is not in the way you think. The term Forlorn is used in Dark Souls 3 to refer to those who are or wish to be denizens of the Painting. It refers to them in the sense of having no " home" in the real world. This doesn't simply include the Corvians, or the Crow Demons; the Farron Followers, the Millwood Knights, even the Witchtrees, all of them count as " Forlorn" in the sense of having no " home". The Painting, since DS1 and up to DS3, has served as a home for " Forlorn" beings; beings with no place in the outside world. The Doll appears to us in our cell in 1; it was not there before. Nor was the corpse that carried it. It appeared to us out of..nowhere. It appears according to it's own laws; Priscilla likely found it the same way. Taking the Doll, being attracted to the Painting, and then, being pulled into it. Many have done this before us, and many after. What does this mean? How are they related in this sense? What is the importance of the Painting's role? Why does it exist? Are the gods who commissioned it truly so generous? Do you think often of Homeward? Yes. The miracle. Homeward states itself as a tale that returns one to their" homeland". The Undead, as part of their curse, cannot return "home", and instead require the bonfires as a substitute. Despite their differing locations, they all act as " home" ; wherever you go, in the past or the far future, in the near or the far distances, they always keep you grounded. " Home" here isn't merely a location; it is an origin point in time and space. Light is time, as the Repair spell so helpfully explains; humans are beings of Dark. They do not belong in time. Manus was dead, and yet,he could pull you to the past all the same. The Darksign binds us to the laws of this world; to a specific time. When it starts failing, as the Fire fades, it uses the bonfires; nodes in time. The Forlorn of Dark Souls 2 have lost " home" entirely; they have been disconnected from it. The bonfires. Everything. Now, what does the Painted World do? In DS1, the bonfire in the Painted World is always disconnected from all other bonfires. It is separate from their chain; it is a " home" in itself. As such, I think the implications are simple: The Painting exists as a substitute " Home" for the Forlorn of an age, to prevent them from becoming beings like the Forlorn in DS2; Eternally invading spirits killing without rhyme or reason. There have been many phantoms within the games that we knew were likely already dead by the time they invade us; Jeremiah was an example of this. The main difference between them and the Forlorn in 2 is that the latter are artificial; the process of losing " home" can occur naturally. Frequently, even. All it requires is to destroy one's sense of belonging; their memories, their attachments. Break them enough, and any Undead can become Forlorn; " free" from the shackles of this world. The Painting was a safety measure against this; a way to keep the Forlorn, those without a "home", bound to reality, and content. Note: An invader within the path to Dragon Shrine drops the Painting Guardian set, only now called the Monastery Set. The Painting, or at least it's bearers,found their way to Drangleic long ago, it seems. "The ceremonial design suggests that they revered whatever it was they watched over."
I got some fully baked truly mad elden ring theories if youre interested. Rennala is a puppet. Her whole first phase is you fighting a puppet. Her second phase is a Spirit summon. She definitly died at some point because we get a rememberance. Which Enia says means they "met their end" Ranni is also a puppet, so is Selvius and Sellen. (Side note, this is how Ranni "survives" the night of black knives, Glinstone soul transference like we do with Sellen) in fact most of Ranni's forces are puppet soldiers. Shes all on on puppets. Why not her mother? Plus Ranni's Darkmoon spell says its associated with "the Carian Queen" but thats Ranni's spell. Rennallas spell is the full moon spell. So if the Darkmoon spell is the Carian Queens spell, then Renala had to die to make Ranni Queen. I also got an absolute banger of a Godwyn theory but thats too long for a comment.
the concept of phantoms being severed from their homeworld is something I had never thought about and it's kind of scary. crazy to think that's what those annoying invaders are.
Love DS2 lore and don't think it gets enough attention. Mostly because people don't like to level Adaptability in DS2 but are fine with leveling Vigor in ER...
I think it’s cos it was made by different developers and you can really feel that, and that’s why it doesn’t get as much love. Me myself I really like the way Miyazaki makes the souls games and the feel that comes with them, ds2 just felt so so different.
I hope you explore the Duke of Tseldora. There's one video on him but I'd love your thoughts on him, the ship in no-man's wharf, and his connection to Seath. The reason I bring up the ship is that the item on the ship is in his office.
It is unfortunate that dark souls 3 failed to touch on many of dark souls 2 plot points, but that's how the cookie crumbles I suppose. Another bang-up job mad-man, While personally I would say this theory is a tad out there, its definitely worth considering.
Just fired up another run of DS2 just the other day!! Im already lvl 114. Cant get enough of that damn game. The lore, the atmosphere, the sheer amount of builds you can do rivals elden ring.
What do you think about Gael being the Bearer of the curse? It's some serious speculation. I always found it interesting. That saying "History's only told by those who survive" look at Lucatiels mask you'll notice its the only character named item in Ds3 where's as characters like Artorias for example is not even remembered by name even though he has an entire legion created by hia actions. Gaels only true weakness seems to be Lucatiels sword if im not mistaken. Then you have the fire keepers crown. It resembles the Kings crown that grants immortality basicly. What if the bearer of the curse bestowed his crown upon the last fire keeper to Give more time for the unkindled to rise. This turns him to age and begin hollowing maybe even forgetting his real name. There's also a whole other lore rabbit hole that Aldia created the unkindled. Saying our "Embers" are essentially peices of aldias own life force.
I have of course heard your name throughout the fromsoft community, but I unfortunately have to admit that I’ve never really checked out your stuff until this video, and I now regret that. And I just gotta say, love the outro. Best way to play their games, both for immersion and anti-rage reasons. I’m happy to be a new subscriber. Looking forward to being a member of your community
I beat ass of Forlorn many times in 10 times I finished ds2 and never realised she was a girl. Whatever I will return to drangleic in one point for sure.
Yes, Gael is praying to Cathia. The thing is Cathia *is* Velka, based on things like the Cathia chime scaling intelligence like the ds1 Velka talisman, and some other superficial things. Also, the crow demons and the corvians of DS3: AoA are indeed the same species. As such, when gael calls her mother of the forlorn, he is referring to Cathia (Velka) being the original host of the painted world and the unwanted dregs of the world living in there
Everyone is Velka
Velka is Quaithe
I agree with OP.
Caitha = Kette (chain in German).
Velka's Remedy Sorcery is reinterpreted in-game as Caitha's Caressing Prayer (DS2)/Caressing Tears (DS3) Miracle.
In Lindelt, they called her Caitha, in Lordran they called her Velka.
It's possible her true name was obliviated like Gwyn's Firstborn.
I tried to make this assertion wayyyy back when I started ds3, ultimately I don’t think it’s the case, in dark souls 1 the pardoners worked for velka, and the tear stone rings had no goldly affiliation, however in ds2 while the tear stone rings become attributed to caitha; the black cleric set (pardoner) named judgement set in ds2, says they worked for an ancient god of sin who’s name is unknown, there’s a very clear distinction placed here, and in ds3 a statue of velka exists, yet Caitha is a predominant deity, it seems very much that they’re quite different, as much as I love velka, I feel she died long before dark souls 1, hunted by the gods, my best piece of evidence? The book of the guilty, Velka’s domain, doesn’t report back to her, and the pardoner can get you in good with gwyndolin after killing a certain someone in ds1, my implication being that gwyn committing the first sin, has the goddess of sin dealt with, to continue his lies, just like he did in the ringed city, why is there a dead pardoner in the painted world? Because they talk too much. Oswald will tell you about other sinners, who’s to say they wouldn’t spread word of a god’s sin, which of course would damage the image and reputation of such a god
@@core-nix1885remedy is not associated with velka, it was created by a woman named Yulva, who is from new londo, here’s the text “Sorcery of the red-robed Yulva, one of the Sealers of New Londo. Reduce bleeding and poison build-up, and undo various poisonous effects.
One of the New Londo's unique healing sorceries. Perhaps she abandoned her Sealer duty to take her healing arts back to Blighttown.” So I believe there isn’t an association there at all
DS 2 scholar of the first sin was my favorite game in the series and I'm happy to see it getting some love.
Same here dude. DS2 never gets the love it deserves, and it could be argued that of the 3 souls game, DS2 has some of the most unique lore.
Bruv same here, I can personally immerse myself more in DS2's way more, it just has this dark mystical melancholy type of vibes that are easier to relate to
@@Etticos.Most of the hate for Dark Souls 2 stems from the gameplay being an all around downgrade from Dark Souls 1 and even Demon’s Souls. The lore is one thing but most people don’t care much for it and dislike the game because it doesn’t feel good to play.
Man you've quickly become one of my current favourite lore guys, the way you delve into secondary or even tertiary topics with such passion and truth really reminds me why I love these games and you make me want to play them again lmao
Keep at it G!
I fully agree.
I had a similar yet different theory.
It should be noted that alot of people forget when discussing the Crow Demons that them being Velka's worshippers was their original concept; not their current one. Though we know they are likely related to her, we must stress that we do not know what that relation is.
The Forlorn of Ds2, I think, cannot be the Forlorn of 3, for the simple fact that they no longer possess a physical body capable of transformation, or interbreeding. The horror of their existence is precisely that; they no longer possess form, identity, origin. However, this does not mean they are not related to them, though it is not in the way you think.
The term Forlorn is used in Dark Souls 3 to refer to those who are or wish to be denizens of the Painting. It refers to them in the sense of having no " home" in the real world. This doesn't simply include the Corvians, or the Crow Demons; the Farron Followers, the Millwood Knights, even the Witchtrees, all of them count as " Forlorn" in the sense of having no " home". The Painting, since DS1 and up to DS3, has served as a home for " Forlorn" beings; beings with no place in the outside world.
The Doll appears to us in our cell in 1; it was not there before. Nor was the corpse that carried it. It appeared to us out of..nowhere. It appears according to it's own laws; Priscilla likely found it the same way. Taking the Doll, being attracted to the Painting, and then, being pulled into it. Many have done this before us, and many after.
What does this mean? How are they related in this sense? What is the importance of the Painting's role? Why does it exist? Are the gods who commissioned it truly so generous?
Do you think often of Homeward?
Yes. The miracle.
Homeward states itself as a tale that returns one to their" homeland". The Undead, as part of their curse, cannot return "home", and instead require the bonfires as a substitute. Despite their differing locations, they all act as " home" ; wherever you go, in the past or the far future, in the near or the far distances, they always keep you grounded. " Home" here isn't merely a location; it is an origin point in time and space.
Light is time, as the Repair spell so helpfully explains; humans are beings of Dark. They do not belong in time. Manus was dead, and yet,he could pull you to the past all the same. The Darksign binds us to the laws of this world; to a specific time. When it starts failing, as the Fire fades, it uses the bonfires; nodes in time.
The Forlorn of Dark Souls 2 have lost " home" entirely; they have been disconnected from it. The bonfires. Everything.
Now, what does the Painted World do?
In DS1, the bonfire in the Painted World is always disconnected from all other bonfires. It is separate from their chain; it is a " home" in itself. As such, I think the implications are simple:
The Painting exists as a substitute " Home" for the Forlorn of an age, to prevent them from becoming beings like the Forlorn in DS2; Eternally invading spirits killing without rhyme or reason.
There have been many phantoms within the games that we knew were likely already dead by the time they invade us; Jeremiah was an example of this. The main difference between them and the Forlorn in 2 is that the latter are artificial; the process of losing " home" can occur naturally. Frequently, even. All it requires is to destroy one's sense of belonging; their memories, their attachments. Break them enough, and any Undead can become Forlorn; " free" from the shackles of this world.
The Painting was a safety measure against this; a way to keep the Forlorn, those without a "home", bound to reality, and content.
Note: An invader within the path to Dragon Shrine drops the Painting Guardian set, only now called the Monastery Set. The Painting, or at least it's bearers,found their way to Drangleic long ago, it seems.
"The ceremonial design suggests that they revered whatever it was they watched over."
I got some fully baked truly mad elden ring theories if youre interested.
Rennala is a puppet. Her whole first phase is you fighting a puppet. Her second phase is a Spirit summon.
She definitly died at some point because we get a rememberance. Which Enia says means they "met their end"
Ranni is also a puppet, so is Selvius and Sellen. (Side note, this is how Ranni "survives" the night of black knives, Glinstone soul transference like we do with Sellen) in fact most of Ranni's forces are puppet soldiers. Shes all on on puppets. Why not her mother?
Plus Ranni's Darkmoon spell says its associated with "the Carian Queen" but thats Ranni's spell. Rennallas spell is the full moon spell. So if the Darkmoon spell is the Carian Queens spell, then Renala had to die to make Ranni Queen.
I also got an absolute banger of a Godwyn theory but thats too long for a comment.
the concept of phantoms being severed from their homeworld is something I had never thought about and it's kind of scary. crazy to think that's what those annoying invaders are.
Love DS2 lore and don't think it gets enough attention. Mostly because people don't like to level Adaptability in DS2 but are fine with leveling Vigor in ER...
True.
what did he mean by this...
I think it’s cos it was made by different developers and you can really feel that, and that’s why it doesn’t get as much love. Me myself I really like the way Miyazaki makes the souls games and the feel that comes with them, ds2 just felt so so different.
"Where are there ravens?" "Armored Core 6"
I hope you explore the Duke of Tseldora. There's one video on him but I'd love your thoughts on him, the ship in no-man's wharf, and his connection to Seath. The reason I bring up the ship is that the item on the ship is in his office.
It is unfortunate that dark souls 3 failed to touch on many of dark souls 2 plot points, but that's how the cookie crumbles I suppose. Another bang-up job mad-man, While personally I would say this theory is a tad out there, its definitely worth considering.
Yeah theres not much to support the claim but its a fun idea
I feel like Wolnir is Miyazaki making fun of the whole Crowns/True King theme. Makes me salty.
0:20 Rejoice my new friend! Honored Madman has uploaded a new video. A sweetly rotting vid to leave a like upon
Fun fact:
The word "velka/wielka" means "the great (feminine) one" in Slavic languages.
Just fired up another run of DS2 just the other day!! Im already lvl 114. Cant get enough of that damn game. The lore, the atmosphere, the sheer amount of builds you can do rivals elden ring.
Man, just hearing those quiet DarkSouls2 themes. Love it.
What do you think about Gael being the Bearer of the curse? It's some serious speculation. I always found it interesting. That saying "History's only told by those who survive" look at Lucatiels mask you'll notice its the only character named item in Ds3 where's as characters like Artorias for example is not even remembered by name even though he has an entire legion created by hia actions. Gaels only true weakness seems to be Lucatiels sword if im not mistaken.
Then you have the fire keepers crown. It resembles the Kings crown that grants immortality basicly. What if the bearer of the curse bestowed his crown upon the last fire keeper to Give more time for the unkindled to rise. This turns him to age and begin hollowing maybe even forgetting his real name.
There's also a whole other lore rabbit hole that Aldia created the unkindled. Saying our "Embers" are essentially peices of aldias own life force.
Fuck i shouldve mentioned that i think theyre others that aldia attempted to sway but then something went wrong resulting in their current state
Keep up the good work man.
Is the outro recording a one off or is every video unique?
Forlorn: “Have you just arrived?”
Ashen One without pants, wang visibly erect: “Not yet I haven’t.”
Their main purpose is to provide their hood for my katana girl's outfit.
Ok but are you upset about there not being a forlorn set in DS3 tho?? I can't tell
Only a tad lol
Love me some ds2 lore and I agree it has the best armor, still waiting for an armor set cooler than that faraam set!
i love the dks2 content keep it up man
Playing some ds2 while I watch this lol.
Crow knight armor reminds me of Femto
"Aahh..merciful goddess...mother of the Forlorn..."
I have of course heard your name throughout the fromsoft community, but I unfortunately have to admit that I’ve never really checked out your stuff until this video, and I now regret that. And I just gotta say, love the outro. Best way to play their games, both for immersion and anti-rage reasons. I’m happy to be a new subscriber. Looking forward to being a member of your community
Bro lore is like crack. I’ll watch terrible series or play terrible video games if there’s interesting lore
This is a super hype lore, ready to dig into this one
I like to think the forlorn are the prototype Emerald Herald. They are all female afterall
Algormancy!
Just about to smoke a bowl, great timing!
Same bruh. You always gotta take a hit when he does too
Hell yea
I never played ds2 so u got my full attention 😮
Tenuous connections.
What strain you smoking on my dude?
Ahoy
Cool vid bro.😺
I beat ass of Forlorn many times in 10 times I finished ds2 and never realised she was a girl. Whatever I will return to drangleic in one point for sure.
Shira in ds3 speaks of the forlorn.