I try to keep it at .002 I just can’t afford a lot of the equipment shown but over time I’ll get there. I really appreciate all that you do! Your channel has been extremely helpful! Thanks again!
I've been reloading for 45 years and I really enjoy the technical side of it all. I really enjoyed your video !, although this IS technical stuff. It's not really relevant to the guy that's loading a couple boxes of 20 a year for hunting purposes. My point is that a beginning reloader does N0T have to consider the technical information, nor; the added expense of the technical equipment involved just to get into the game.
.002 Shoulder Bump is what i use at my Boltaction Rifles its simple with Quality Brass to get consistent Results (i only use Lapua and Ruag Brass (Ruag=RWS Norma Geco these 3 are all the same identical Casevolumes Brass Thickness .... but i still seperate them for Headstamps / Lots)
I just do a light sizing, then try the case in my rifle.. slowly screwing in the die until the bolt closes with slight resistance.. not very scientific, but has worked for me to load accurate ammo, in dozens of rifles, for the last 20+ years ;)
Looks like I'll be bumping same as you. I'm going to add that step to my system this month. Larry Poterfield is full of it when he says you save money reloading 😂 been broke for 5 yrs, always adding on😶
But how much more quality ammunition do you have reloading than you'd have store shelf hunting? Seems like just as you find a brand-load on the shelf that works it gets updated or replaced with something completely different. Reloading gives me a lot of quality time by myself. I'm terrific company...just so you know! LOL
I use the Redding competition shellholders. I can just set die to cam over with selected/correct shellholder and I will get desired shoulder bump every time without tedious trial and error of die adjustment.
I'll start with .002 for the bolt and will be looking at .0015 and .0005. I wish I could afford the Annealing Made Perfect. I have an old drill press and a hand-held blow torch. I count to 7, which is just as the case changes colour.
Lee collet neck die and Redding body die bump back 2 thou. Verify with LE Wilson Headspace gauge. Works the brass wery little and dies are not expensive. I like gadgets but its becoming too much in reloading IMO
I target .0015. Looking at your process, you are using fire formed brass to zero, but I use my chamber measurements and come .0015 off that. I always assumed that’s more accurate than using the brass since my fire formed brass can have different measurements. Thoughts?
Im usually in the same 1.5-2 thou bump like most. Gavin, have you ever experimented with pulling the firing pin from the bolt and bumping back until the bolt closes? Or anyone else on here? I’ve done it a couple times with good results
One of the top prs shooters in the prs does a video where he explains why he does what you just recommended. If you are using calipers like shown in this video you are essentially just measuring one tiny line on the shoulder and not considering any other part of the case. When you do what you are suggesting then you are considering the whole piece of brass and how it fits in a given chamber. Who is to say it’s just the shoulder that dictates how a round chambers? Using the method you mentioned allows you to adjust the brass to the point where the bolt freely drops. This is considering the whole case and not just an arbitrary line on the shoulder. Hope this makes sense.
Eric Cortina does it in his video about setting up sizing dies. But he also removes the ejector. I recently tried it after watching his video and it is great, as it removes any guessing and you can really perfectly feel at which length the bolt requites some force, more force or no force at all to close. Removing the ejector was a little annoying though
I started popping the primers out of a fired case then using my Hornady gauge to measure the headspace. Pumping the shoulder back 2 thousands. I’m getting case head separation now. I’m annealing with my amp and trimming. I’m having this issue on my dasher, 308 and 338 lm. Whatever I’m doing isn’t working.
@@conservativesniperhunter7439 Lapua for my 308 and 338 and Alpha for my Dasher. Only about 3-4 reloads. I’m trying competition shell holders to see if that fixes issue. 🤷♂️
@@gunnrwallace6323 Man that’s a mysterious one. Let’s see what Gavin and other reloaders have to say. Could it be that the area in your chamber where the case separation is taking place might be a bit oversize? Take it to a gunsmith and have it checked out.
@@conservativesniperhunter7439 I would say you could be right but 308 is Fn special police and the other two were chambered by two different smiths. I’d be curious to see what others say also
@@conservativesniperhunter7439 I would say you could be right but 308 is Fn special police and the other two were chambered by two different smiths. I’d be curious to see what others say also
Been sizing .001 like that for years but I use the Hornady anvil base on my caliper jaw to align the cartridge base flatly rather than balancing it on the thinner blades of the jaw
Great Info. Re: YT, I don't understand why they put a ( I understand and wish to proceed) advisory notice on this Vid. More and more there trying to push gun vids off there page entirety. I say we go to rumble and take our money with us. Other gun vids have already done so.
What would you recommend for lever rifles such as the Browning BLR and Savage 99 for shoulder bump? I've been full length sizing for my BLR in .243. I feel I could probably go to a .002 bump but I've always been told to full length size lever and semi auto cases. Do you have an opinion on using Lee Collet neck sizing dies? I've tried it on my 308 but I don't know what to think. I cannot feel anything through the press to know if it is doing anything to the case. I use an RCBS neck sizing die that leaves a better feedback on the press handle. The chamber is producing consistent cases that don't really need shoulder bumping to go back into a sizing die. I've been annealing and full length sizing on every 4th loading.
Gavin, from reading the comments i think it would benifit the followers to explain that this style of reloading isnt necessary for their hunting rifles to shoot half moa groups. (Keep in mind i load for my hunting rifles like i do for my varmint rifles, long-range precision rifles). I build so i dont build a hunting rifle any different than i would a short or long range bench gun, PRS rifle, F class, etc.. Having said that the average viewer/loader should be made aware that his sporter can be made to shoot sub MOA without having shoulder bump down to .001"-.002".
@johnseptien3138 Agree! I think while at a match, its a good idea to have that better assurance it will chamber. Id think that the hunting community would watch Ron Spoomer
Gavin I run .002 on my Benchrest rifle manly because some have a little more spring back and a tight load always will throw out of the group. I also load Ackley shoulder cases and they headspace off the neck shoulder junction, therefore I use a different gauge to headspace. Getting dies that are not custom can be a sizing issue with .200 line in my experience. Does that press really have a great cam over feel and consistency?
If i have multiple semi auto rifles I'm reloading for should the .002-.004 bump be sufficient to work on all of them or should the brass be kept specific to each barrel? Assume this is for range ammo not intended for match use.
Me personally I have a specific lot of brass for each rifle and set headspce to the intended rifle. That way I get the best accuracy and case life out of each case, but you said you aren't going for precision, and that's kinda all I do . Sorry I couldn't be more help. Seen your question and it's a good one, and nobody answered so thought I'd throw my 2 cents in
@@larryblair4765 thanks for the reply. I do the same with my nice stuff too but I didn't know the guidelines for shared ammo. I guess I'll have to do some research
@maker_greg yes sir, my guns are all selfish! Lol. So they don't share . I'd honestly say that .004 should be adequate to go between all the chamber differences. Happy hunting! Good talking with ya. Good luck
Gavin, Where can a person get the Chamber/Reamer dimensions for a particular cartridge? And are the cartridge drawings in manuals sufficient for those measurements?
I just started reloading and I was attempting to resize and bump the shoulder back on 223rem. I been getting inconsistent on my brass where I may bump anywhere from .001" to .006":. Im using a forster co-ax press with a redding FL sizer die. The brass been annealed and using redding sizing wax as the lube. Only thing I can think of that can be my issue is: I'm using different brands of brass (LC, Frontier, Barnes, Hornady, Federal and ETC) also as well being a mix of range pick up and some of my own. Is this is my problem or is there other things I should be concerned with?
You definitely want to separate by brand. There are always differences, however slight, between manufacturers. Your setup looks great so I don't think that's the issue.
That's never going to work with that range of brass. You have no idea the condition of each brass, what it is fired in, how many times, etc... That's a complete disaster. Buy one lot of brass and stick with it, that's the only way to get the consistency. And even then, if you fire different charge weights within that brass trying to test that will also throw a minor wrench into things.
Different Headstamp gives Different Bumps Different Brass Thickness and so on seperat the Headstamps your Casevolumes differ also you will never get consistent Results with Different Headstamps
U forgot to mention basics , you need to use same brass , you cant have remington, winchester , lapua , hornady ect. In same batch , each of those brass will anneal differently and will have different spring when you trying to bump ur shoulder
I want to start reloading and was looking at hornady match dies. It says Hornady Match Grade dies have a separate, interchangeable neck size bushing (not included with die). I don't know how to pick the right die set.
It's weird how video topics from favourite channels can just randomly line up with something going on in your own life. I have lately been struggling with bump the shoulder on my 223 brass, as the shell holder contacts with the die, before the case travels far enough up to touch the shoulder at all. I have seen that a lot of people will machine a little off the shell holder or the die to achieve depth, is this really that common of an issue and are there less Macgyver style fixes.. Not that I'm opposed to the odd Macgyvering here and there
I have the exact same issue with my Hornady Iron Press and Hornady Match Grade die set in 6.5 Creedmoor. Would be nice to know if there is something that we are doing wrong or can change to achieve the desired shoulder bump. I have 6 x fired Lapua brass and still not able to achieve shoulder bump, can't think that its because the brass isn't long enough. No trouble with feeding issues either.
I have not watched the video yet. I use redding competition shellholders that you just set against the sizing die. No measurements, no fuss, zero variation once set up. You don't even need a vernier to set it up 😂 Dirt cheap solition that works on any press.
How does using all of this expensive and fancy do on reducing group sizes. I've been reloading since 1970 (starting with a 220 Swift) and have found that using a Wilson cartridge case die worked just fine. This shoulder bumping craze is like the bushing mania--companies make a new piece of gear and people flock to using it thinking that it will improve their shooting. For the manufacturers this is great, it sells stuff. UA-cam loves it since it results in thousands of videos. Soon everybody who hand loads thinks that they need all of this stuff to reload the 243 deer loads. This is madness.
Your comment makes no sense. Reloaders having been shoulder bumping since the beginning, they just used different methods to go about it. All it is, is minimally resizing a case with a full length sizing die. Heck, people used to use scotch tape method to do this. Now, we have specific tools that help the process out. And all this $fancy$ equipment isn't needed to bump the shoulder, any standard reloading press and a simple, cheap comparator tool that Hornady makes is all that's needed.
You increase the brass life with 300% if you bump the shoulder only wath you need and you know that the cartridge will always chamber in your gun ...measuring is knowledge..dont measure and you are reloading blindfolded
"Ive been doing this since the 70s junior." Lol okay Gramps. Time spent does not equal skill. Im sure your granddadys 30-30 can totally hit a pie plate at 30ft 3/5 times if you do your part. 😂❤
True. I mostly use Lee gear. I started reloading in the 1970s loading 12 and 16 gauge shot shells. I've had gear from every major manufacturer. I have an RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme for most rifle. I load 5.56 on a Lee Pro1000 with excellent accuracy. I process all my brass to a clean primed case. I have a turret that has a Hornady Powder measure, a Powder Cop, and a Lee seating die to finish them off. Simple used $35 gun show press found under a table has loaded 25K rounds and decapped and sized 50K more cases on top of that...yes, in 40 gallon trash barrels. All my pistol ammo is loaded on a late 1990s Lee Loadmaster. I'd rather spend the money on good components than fancy gear. I've tried several brands other than Lee over the years but Lee gets it done. Lee can be quirky but once you learn to troubleshoot their issues they can run like a clock.
I try to keep it at .002
I just can’t afford a lot of the equipment shown but over time I’ll get there.
I really appreciate all that you do!
Your channel has been extremely helpful!
Thanks again!
Try the Redding coipition shell holders. The come in 0.002" increments. I can then bump my die against the shell holder.
I use them. Great.
I've been reloading for 45 years and I really enjoy the technical side of it all.
I really enjoyed your video !, although this IS technical stuff. It's not really relevant to the guy that's loading a couple boxes of 20 a year for hunting purposes.
My point is that a beginning reloader does N0T have to consider the technical information, nor; the added expense of the technical equipment involved just to get into the game.
.002 Shoulder Bump is what i use at my Boltaction Rifles its simple with Quality Brass to get consistent Results (i only use Lapua and Ruag Brass (Ruag=RWS Norma Geco these 3 are all the same identical Casevolumes Brass Thickness .... but i still seperate them for Headstamps / Lots)
I just do a light sizing, then try the case in my rifle.. slowly screwing in the die until the bolt closes with slight resistance.. not very scientific, but has worked for me to load accurate ammo, in dozens of rifles, for the last 20+ years ;)
RCBS dies touching the shell holder gives me a consistent .002 shoulder bump.
I'm just lucky that way..
Very new to reloading. This is exactly the explanation I was looking for. Thanks!
2 thou bump with high quality brass, annealed and properly lubed
When can we expect an update on the Mossberg patriot fix?
Looks like I'll be bumping same as you. I'm going to add that step to my system this month. Larry Poterfield is full of it when he says you save money reloading 😂 been broke for 5 yrs, always adding on😶
But how much more quality ammunition do you have reloading than you'd have store shelf hunting? Seems like just as you find a brand-load on the shelf that works it gets updated or replaced with something completely different. Reloading gives me a lot of quality time by myself. I'm terrific company...just so you know! LOL
Zeroing the caliper before screwing the die down easier than trying to remember the numbers. Thanks for that tip.
Great video
I use the Redding competition shellholders. I can just set die to cam over with selected/correct shellholder and I will get desired shoulder bump every time without tedious trial and error of die adjustment.
I'll start with .002 for the bolt and will be looking at .0015 and .0005. I wish I could afford the Annealing Made Perfect. I have an old drill press and a hand-held blow torch. I count to 7, which is just as the case changes colour.
So do I...works well enough when you on a badget like me.
Great content!!
Great vid and thx Gav, interesting to know what the brass does when it gets too brittle. I've purchased an annealer so that should fix the problem.
Lee collet neck die and Redding body die bump back 2 thou. Verify with LE Wilson Headspace gauge. Works the brass wery little and dies are not expensive.
I like gadgets but its becoming too much in reloading IMO
I find 2hou is the best. More regularity for bolt action. And 4thou for semi.
SAC stuff is good but pricey. I use a Redding Instant Indicator for checking bump and seating.
I've learned is that consistent lubrication is extremely important in getting a consistent shoulder bump
I target .0015. Looking at your process, you are using fire formed brass to zero, but I use my chamber measurements and come .0015 off that. I always assumed that’s more accurate than using the brass since my fire formed brass can have different measurements. Thoughts?
Im usually in the same 1.5-2 thou bump like most.
Gavin, have you ever experimented with pulling the firing pin from the bolt and bumping back until the bolt closes? Or anyone else on here? I’ve done it a couple times with good results
One of the top prs shooters in the prs does a video where he explains why he does what you just recommended. If you are using calipers like shown in this video you are essentially just measuring one tiny line on the shoulder and not considering any other part of the case. When you do what you are suggesting then you are considering the whole piece of brass and how it fits in a given chamber. Who is to say it’s just the shoulder that dictates how a round chambers?
Using the method you mentioned allows you to adjust the brass to the point where the bolt freely drops. This is considering the whole case and not just an arbitrary line on the shoulder. Hope this makes sense.
m.ua-cam.com/video/bITiiXFUA3Q/v-deo.html
Eric Cortina does it in his video about setting up sizing dies. But he also removes the ejector. I recently tried it after watching his video and it is great, as it removes any guessing and you can really perfectly feel at which length the bolt requites some force, more force or no force at all to close. Removing the ejector was a little annoying though
I started popping the primers out of a fired case then using my Hornady gauge to measure the headspace. Pumping the shoulder back 2 thousands. I’m getting case head separation now. I’m annealing with my amp and trimming. I’m having this issue on my dasher, 308 and 338 lm. Whatever I’m doing isn’t working.
What brass are you using and how many times have the cases been fired? Did you buy the brass or was it used brass picked up at the range?
@@conservativesniperhunter7439 Lapua for my 308 and 338 and Alpha for my Dasher. Only about 3-4 reloads. I’m trying competition shell holders to see if that fixes issue. 🤷♂️
@@gunnrwallace6323 Man that’s a mysterious one. Let’s see what Gavin and other reloaders have to say. Could it be that the area in your chamber where the case separation is taking place might be a bit oversize? Take it to a gunsmith and have it checked out.
@@conservativesniperhunter7439 I would say you could be right but 308 is Fn special police and the other two were chambered by two different smiths. I’d be curious to see what others say also
@@conservativesniperhunter7439 I would say you could be right but 308 is Fn special police and the other two were chambered by two different smiths. I’d be curious to see what others say also
Been sizing .001 like that for years but I use the Hornady anvil base on my caliper jaw to align the cartridge base flatly rather than balancing it on the thinner blades of the jaw
Great Info. Re: YT, I don't understand why they put a ( I understand and wish to proceed) advisory notice on this Vid. More and more there trying to push gun vids off there page entirety. I say we go to rumble and take our money with us. Other gun vids have already done so.
What would you recommend for lever rifles such as the Browning BLR and Savage 99 for shoulder bump? I've been full length sizing for my BLR in .243. I feel I could probably go to a .002 bump but I've always been told to full length size lever and semi auto cases.
Do you have an opinion on using Lee Collet neck sizing dies? I've tried it on my 308 but I don't know what to think. I cannot feel anything through the press to know if it is doing anything to the case. I use an RCBS neck sizing die that leaves a better feedback on the press handle. The chamber is producing consistent cases that don't really need shoulder bumping to go back into a sizing die. I've been annealing and full length sizing on every 4th loading.
.002 for hunting
Gavin, from reading the comments i think it would benifit the followers to explain that this style of reloading isnt necessary for their hunting rifles to shoot half moa groups. (Keep in mind i load for my hunting rifles like i do for my varmint rifles, long-range precision rifles). I build so i dont build a hunting rifle any different than i would a short or long range bench gun, PRS rifle, F class, etc.. Having said that the average viewer/loader should be made aware that his sporter can be made to shoot sub MOA without having shoulder bump down to .001"-.002".
Dont give the fudds any excuses to slack off. If youre not going to do it right, dont do it at all.
@johnseptien3138 Agree! I think while at a match, its a good idea to have that better assurance it will chamber.
Id think that the hunting community would watch Ron Spoomer
I learned the hard way with bumping shoulders to far lol. 😬
What is a good shoulder bump for a lever action?
I think the guidance of semi-auto would be a good rule of thumb here- about 0.004" - 0.006" bump!
Does the floating block touch the stopping pucks when fully cam over while resizing brass?
Gavin I run .002 on my Benchrest rifle manly because some have a little more spring back and a tight load always will throw out of the group. I also load Ackley shoulder cases and they headspace off the neck shoulder junction, therefore I use a different gauge to headspace. Getting dies that are not custom can be a sizing issue with .200 line in my experience. Does that press really have a great cam over feel and consistency?
If i have multiple semi auto rifles I'm reloading for should the .002-.004 bump be sufficient to work on all of them or should the brass be kept specific to each barrel? Assume this is for range ammo not intended for match use.
Me personally I have a specific lot of brass for each rifle and set headspce to the intended rifle. That way I get the best accuracy and case life out of each case, but you said you aren't going for precision, and that's kinda all I do . Sorry I couldn't be more help. Seen your question and it's a good one, and nobody answered so thought I'd throw my 2 cents in
@@larryblair4765 thanks for the reply. I do the same with my nice stuff too but I didn't know the guidelines for shared ammo. I guess I'll have to do some research
@maker_greg yes sir, my guns are all selfish! Lol. So they don't share . I'd honestly say that .004 should be adequate to go between all the chamber differences. Happy hunting! Good talking with ya. Good luck
Can you deprime and resize at the same time if you get the body of the die set on a few cases then re install the decapping pin?
@gavintoobe Looks like your using the hard stop not cam over on the nexus correct or no?
Gavin, Where can a person get the Chamber/Reamer dimensions for a particular cartridge? And are the cartridge drawings in manuals sufficient for those measurements?
You can find that here! saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf
Does annealing happen before sizing or after or both? Assuming the brass has been fired.
anneal before sizing. PrimalRights has a great video on the "order of operations"
I just started reloading and I was attempting to resize and bump the shoulder back on 223rem. I been getting inconsistent on my brass where I may bump anywhere from .001" to .006":. Im using a forster co-ax press with a redding FL sizer die. The brass been annealed and using redding sizing wax as the lube. Only thing I can think of that can be my issue is: I'm using different brands of brass (LC, Frontier, Barnes, Hornady, Federal and ETC) also as well being a mix of range pick up and some of my own.
Is this is my problem or is there other things I should be concerned with?
You definitely want to separate by brand. There are always differences, however slight, between manufacturers. Your setup looks great so I don't think that's the issue.
That's never going to work with that range of brass. You have no idea the condition of each brass, what it is fired in, how many times, etc... That's a complete disaster. Buy one lot of brass and stick with it, that's the only way to get the consistency. And even then, if you fire different charge weights within that brass trying to test that will also throw a minor wrench into things.
Different Headstamp gives Different Bumps Different Brass Thickness and so on seperat the Headstamps your Casevolumes differ also you will never get consistent Results with Different Headstamps
U forgot to mention basics , you need to use same brass , you cant have remington, winchester , lapua , hornady ect. In same batch , each of those brass will anneal differently and will have different spring when you trying to bump ur shoulder
I want to start reloading and was looking at hornady match dies. It says Hornady Match Grade dies have a separate, interchangeable neck size bushing (not included with die). I don't know how to pick the right die set.
Hornady's channel has a vid on how to calculate which size bushing to choose for your particular setup.
It's weird how video topics from favourite channels can just randomly line up with something going on in your own life. I have lately been struggling with bump the shoulder on my 223 brass, as the shell holder contacts with the die, before the case travels far enough up to touch the shoulder at all. I have seen that a lot of people will machine a little off the shell holder or the die to achieve depth, is this really that common of an issue and are there less Macgyver style fixes.. Not that I'm opposed to the odd Macgyvering here and there
I have the exact same issue with my Hornady Iron Press and Hornady Match Grade die set in 6.5 Creedmoor. Would be nice to know if there is something that we are doing wrong or can change to achieve the desired shoulder bump. I have 6 x fired Lapua brass and still not able to achieve shoulder bump, can't think that its because the brass isn't long enough. No trouble with feeding issues either.
I have not watched the video yet. I use redding competition shellholders that you just set against the sizing die. No measurements, no fuss, zero variation once set up. You don't even need a vernier to set it up 😂
Dirt cheap solition that works on any press.
How does using all of this expensive and fancy do on reducing group sizes. I've been reloading since 1970 (starting with a 220 Swift) and have found that using a Wilson cartridge case die worked just fine. This shoulder bumping craze is like the bushing mania--companies make a new piece of gear and people flock to using it thinking that it will improve their shooting. For the manufacturers this is great, it sells stuff. UA-cam loves it since it results in thousands of videos.
Soon everybody who hand loads thinks that they need all of this stuff to reload the 243 deer loads. This is madness.
Your comment makes no sense. Reloaders having been shoulder bumping since the beginning, they just used different methods to go about it. All it is, is minimally resizing a case with a full length sizing die. Heck, people used to use scotch tape method to do this.
Now, we have specific tools that help the process out. And all this $fancy$ equipment isn't needed to bump the shoulder, any standard reloading press and a simple, cheap comparator tool that Hornady makes is all that's needed.
You increase the brass life with 300% if you bump the shoulder only wath you need and you know that the cartridge will always chamber in your gun ...measuring is knowledge..dont measure and you are reloading blindfolded
"Ive been doing this since the 70s junior." Lol okay Gramps. Time spent does not equal skill. Im sure your granddadys 30-30 can totally hit a pie plate at 30ft 3/5 times if you do your part. 😂❤
You don't need Gucci brand equipment to get a consistent shoulder bump.
True. I mostly use Lee gear. I started reloading in the 1970s loading 12 and 16 gauge shot shells. I've had gear from every major manufacturer. I have an RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme for most rifle. I load 5.56 on a Lee Pro1000 with excellent accuracy. I process all my brass to a clean primed case. I have a turret that has a Hornady Powder measure, a Powder Cop, and a Lee seating die to finish them off. Simple used $35 gun show press found under a table has loaded 25K rounds and decapped and sized 50K more cases on top of that...yes, in 40 gallon trash barrels. All my pistol ammo is loaded on a late 1990s Lee Loadmaster. I'd rather spend the money on good components than fancy gear. I've tried several brands other than Lee over the years but Lee gets it done. Lee can be quirky but once you learn to troubleshoot their issues they can run like a clock.
Its turning into a add show for gimmick reloading big dollar stuff
Oh, Im sorry! I thought this was a 70's Do The Bump dance class. 🕺