I’ve experimenting with this using the product from my ‘natures head’ (with Coco peat) and using a wheelie bin compost as an intermediary before adding to the worm drum. So far so excellent 🙏
I’ve been “Vernmenting” (new vermiculture technique) my #2’s for going on five years with great results. Humanure IMO is one of the Red’s favorite food right up there with pumpkin. With this vernmenting technique you could potentially process your humanure in a apartment anywhere.
Very interesting. This is about the first confident statement on this subject for yonks... Thanks a bunch..wish there was more research into this area.
There's now an International Worm-Based Sanitation Association (IWBSA). Their website has some good resources on vermicomposting toilet systems. It's not without its issues, but according to them, over 200000 people are now using worm-based sanitation systems. Wikipedia also has an article on Vermifilter toilet.
For small scale if you have access to it I recommend harvesting wood duff from a large old log or stump it yields a better product, faster, and with more nitrogen too since the rotted wood is lower C/N ratio. Downside is that sawdust is usually easier to find. If using sawdust I would go for hardwood if possible it is more palatable to fungi and be careful to avoid walnut.
If you added humanure to the vermi compost in smaller amounts with the other things you add to the worm farm will it reduce the quantity of the worm castings or just be absorbed into the process?
Question about human waste composting. I watched a video of someone in Costa Rica who separates the solid and liquid waste by dividing the toilet area on expulsion from body, because they said the issues come from solid waste sitting in water. So if you urinate in one section and solid waste in another (with sawdust), then the breakdown is much much better. What are your thoughts on this?
I use the Airhead Composting Toilet designed for Marine usage. It does exactly that. Then mix the urine with water to help fertilise trees and plants. When the shit tub is getting full with aforementioned, toilet paper, some beneficial microorganism(added at start) and coir(or some other high silica component) I put it in a large bin and add some compost worms. I do this until the bin is full then start filling another. It takes 8 to 12 months and then its ready for timber tree fertiliser. A little bit of work but not much, considering its a very rewarding feeling being responsible for your own waste and not poisoning the water ways. You could even get one of these or the like and have a backyard crapper in the City. :-)
That's what I'm thinking too. Compost worms don't like high concentrations of nitrogen, but they love (hu)manure! 🪱❤️💩. And 💧. So if you divert urine for storage and later use as fertilizer, you do need to add some water to the pile to keep the worms happy. Even the Clivus Multrum, which doesn't separate urine, has automated sprinklers for watering the the compost pile. So that's something you need to manage somehow. Maybe with a ultra-low-flush toilet (~1 liter)? Or a bidet attachment for cleaning with water (~0.5 liter)? Or just manually adding water with each use? Even with low water use, there will be some leachate that will either have to be infiltrated into the ground(water), as in Tiger Toilets, collected for later disposal (low volume septic), or maybe connected to the sewer system if on-grid. But I think it's doable, and if done right could become a functioning system that, like the Clivus, doesn't fill up for decades. Unlike the Clivus and Tiger Toilet, you get pure urine that after up to 6 months of storage is safe to handle ("sterile"), smell free and even more potent as a fertilizer. The compost should also be almost smell free when not mixed with urine. If you're interested in this, look up urine storage at the SSWM website. And worm-based sanitation at the IWBSA website. (Note that "vermicomposting toilet" often refers to flush toilets with urine mixed in, I'm talking about no-flush direct-drop or ultra-low-flush.)
Also, I think sawdust is mainly added to balance out the nitrogen from urine, and prevent smell caused by the urine. When diverting urine, I don't think that's needed? But like the Clivus and Tiger Toilet, the bed of the compost tank (which could be just an IBC tote) should be prepared with wood chips (worms love that) and other carbon-rich materials on top of a drainage layer.
I composted fresh humanure along with vegetable scraps bedding of straw newspapers and cardboard once the worms have processed this are the dangerous pathogens gone?
Yes and she still does. It's been running over 20 years with no problem whatsoever, according to her. I developed a simple system based on her's and it works very well. It can have management issues for sure - you have to engage with and maintain the system. It's not going to function like a mains sewer! But it's also far less work than a humanure bucket system. See my main comment for more details.
@@waynetadlock9719 No, a lot of carbon is added to the human feces (sawdust, chips) so there will be no smell, and to absorb liquids (in compost toilets for campers they separate the urine and try to keep the waste that they need to cover with celluluse dry). But that is more to keep the feces w/o smells and w/o need for a lot of weight and water. The campers can dispose off the urin in public toilets (they have a separate plastic canister for that). And one conainer for solids. But since you add lots of carbon rich material - and more if you do not remove urine (which would be a good liquid fertilizer) the processed compost / substrate is heavily on the carbon rich side and it was broken down by fungi. That is useful, and there is value of processing the excrements w/o water, BUT it is also low in nitrogen. The same would be the case if you let wood or wood chips break down on their own. Good soil but it is not rich in certain nutrients, it is ANOTHER resource if you will and different from compost for growing vegetable. For instance building soil volume and mass, the ability to store and slowly release water etc. Could be also very valuable to improve clay soils. You would have the same situation if you let a pile of branches or thorns sit by themselves in a heap. It does have value (breeding grounds for wildbirds and hedgehogs and insects etc), after 1 - 3 years the heap will go down, eventually that celluluse (wood) will break down and form substrate / soil, that is water absorbant BUT it is not the right substrate for veggies which just need lots of nutrients and especially nitrogen. On the other hand if you have very heavy clay or loam soil, and you have problems with no soil life, nor air, pores and standing water (drainage problems) composts from carbon rich material could be perfect to fluff it up, increase the ability to hold water w/o being wet and give it structure. Especially clay soils can profit from that. Clay is nutrient rich (mineral particles), so it only needs some nitrogen and it would make for wonderful soil after a few years. If you do not have the space or time you would have to fix and work the substrate, by adding urine, or other nitrogen sources. But that can become a hassle and also a source of error. If a person SELLS the worm compost, that may be a complication / source of error they should not airm for. If you build your customer base and you have one badly managed batch (you are still learining) - that can cost you customers. People will not always tell you, sometimes they do not even know it was your compost (that is supposed to be good for vegies but was made unfit for that purpose because you tried to squeeze in another job for the worms). Sometimes underwhelmed customers just don't come back for the next purchase. On the other hands if (rookie) gardeners make excellent experiences with your compost they will be hooked - to gardening and to your product and come back and they will do the marketing for you (word of mouth). So when making compost for sale I would not play around with humanure. Either giving it more time or handling it separately and speeding up things with urine gifts, or hunting for leaves and lawn clippings. Coffe shops are good or food scraps from restaurant. One way would be to give it to trees or bushes that can deal with low nutrient soils or even like that (if they are decorative or as bee fodder), another way would be to add it to soil in beds or raised beds (or as filler at the bottom) but to add urine. When it is still fresh it is still high in nitrogen (it has not yet been used for any decomposition processes). Not sure what happens if urin gets stale. Either you manage it and add nitrogen or you use it as planting soil for nitrogen fixers like lupines or peas (or the tree that they use for chop and drop leucaemia - that can become invasive, and not sure if it would grow well in cooler climates. But it is a nitrogen fixing trees, that is massively cut back and they can harvest lots of green leaves and branches, even firewood every year). They could deal well with nitrogen deficient substrate. The expectation if you plant any lupines (flowers, they also can become invasive) or peas would not be harvests, but soil improvement and giving any pathogens more time to vanish. Another level of safety. If the peas etc. grow well, all the better. When one lets worms handle the humanure it also adds that level of safety and they process it faster BUT for the price of robbing the worm castings of nutrients.
@@xyzsame4081 Thank you. Your comment made me curious enough to watch the video again, with intensity. I suppose it's a matter of management practice. Up until 1:47 Mr. Lawton explains why and how COMPOSTING, humanure with carbons IS successful through vermicomposting. After 1:47 he explains how and why already fully COMPOSTED humanure then fed to the worms is NOT successful.
I agree that high carbon worm compost literally sucks... nitrogen. My solution is to mix final vermicompost with lots of other old soil which isn't nitrogen deficient & chicken manure. Yes, vermicompost may help plants initially, but a few months later you get yellow leaves.
Anyone reading may consider black solder flies I’ve been curious to try this and they would be my go to for composting it quickly. Anyone let me know if you’ve tried this.
@@wshyangify not if you harvest them. But even if they do crawl away and pupate you still have their leftovers (old exoskeletons and their poop) witch are super beneficial for new plants.
"Commercially produced" results of many things tend to be low-quality, due to their desire for quick results, low-grade inputs, and failure to train and properly oversee their employees. I would like to see a video from you that shows how to do it right on a small family farm. People all over the world have been using humanure as a rich source of nutrients for millennia. Are we simply too delicate, just too stupid to get it right in the supposedly superior industrial countries?
@@nathanlewis42 it's only low grade because of the high carbon content- If- you Vermacompost Humanure. Which can be off set by letting your humanure cook in the compost for a year before adding it to a worm farm, while makings sure your worm farm get plenty of greens. So you treat humanure as a brown essentially. The usefulness depends upon what people who are providing the manure are eating, and the danger of human born pathogens really depends on how the humanure is handled. Lawton doesn't Vermacompost with humanure, but he does use humanure for fruit trees on his farm & high quality humanure really is one of the best things you can mulch with for fruit trees.
I don't think its a matter of us being to stupid or delicate to use humanure in the west. I just think most of the general public don't understand soil science well enough to grasp that there is a right way of handling Humanure or that the need is there when the average lawn Gardner can just go pick up low grade bovine or chicken manure for free in most the country. Water toilets are nice easy to forget, composting toilets require more work and thought. Not much, but enough to make most people look at you funny when you say you flush with sawdust lol
Check out www.vermicompostingtoilets.net/ for a working system. I've made a facebook group too, Vermicomposting Flush Toilets. facebook.com/groups/vermiloo/
I’ve experimenting with this using the product from my ‘natures head’ (with Coco peat) and using a wheelie bin compost as an intermediary before adding to the worm drum. So far so excellent 🙏
I’ve been “Vernmenting” (new vermiculture technique) my #2’s for going on five years with great results. Humanure IMO is one of the Red’s favorite food right up there with pumpkin. With this vernmenting technique you could potentially process your humanure in a apartment anywhere.
ua-cam.com/play/PL8OAnpHec405OVKeS_tCvedGhaEFZ6GCw.html
Sounds fascinating, can you explain a bit more please
@@haseef Did you check out the video playlist link shared, lot’s of good info👍
Are you adding food scraps in there too and they process both? And these are red wrigglers?
@@jefferytrapani9700 you definitely could if presented properly, but for myself I have a dedicated vermiculture bin dedicated to just my #2’s.
Very interesting.
This is about the first confident statement on this subject for yonks...
Thanks a bunch..wish there was more research into this area.
There's now an International Worm-Based Sanitation Association (IWBSA). Their website has some good resources on vermicomposting toilet systems. It's not without its issues, but according to them, over 200000 people are now using worm-based sanitation systems. Wikipedia also has an article on Vermifilter toilet.
For small scale if you have access to it I recommend harvesting wood duff from a large old log or stump it yields a better product, faster, and with more nitrogen too since the rotted wood is lower C/N ratio. Downside is that sawdust is usually easier to find. If using sawdust I would go for hardwood if possible it is more palatable to fungi and be careful to avoid walnut.
Would a bokashi like method work better with humanure then being processed through a vermiculture system then onto a silviculture system work better?
If you added humanure to the vermi compost in smaller amounts with the other things you add to the worm farm will it reduce the quantity of the worm castings or just be absorbed into the process?
Question about human waste composting. I watched a video of someone in Costa Rica who separates the solid and liquid waste by dividing the toilet area on expulsion from body, because they said the issues come from solid waste sitting in water. So if you urinate in one section and solid waste in another (with sawdust), then the breakdown is much much better.
What are your thoughts on this?
I use the Airhead Composting Toilet designed for Marine usage. It does exactly that. Then mix the urine with water to help fertilise trees and plants. When the shit tub is getting full with aforementioned, toilet paper, some beneficial microorganism(added at start) and coir(or some other high silica component) I put it in a large bin and add some compost worms. I do this until the bin is full then start filling another. It takes 8 to 12 months and then its ready for timber tree fertiliser. A little bit of work but not much, considering its a very rewarding feeling being responsible for your own waste and not poisoning the water ways. You could even get one of these or the like and have a backyard crapper in the City. :-)
That's what I'm thinking too. Compost worms don't like high concentrations of nitrogen, but they love (hu)manure! 🪱❤️💩. And 💧.
So if you divert urine for storage and later use as fertilizer, you do need to add some water to the pile to keep the worms happy. Even the Clivus Multrum, which doesn't separate urine, has automated sprinklers for watering the the compost pile. So that's something you need to manage somehow. Maybe with a ultra-low-flush toilet (~1 liter)? Or a bidet attachment for cleaning with water (~0.5 liter)? Or just manually adding water with each use? Even with low water use, there will be some leachate that will either have to be infiltrated into the ground(water), as in Tiger Toilets, collected for later disposal (low volume septic), or maybe connected to the sewer system if on-grid. But I think it's doable, and if done right could become a functioning system that, like the Clivus, doesn't fill up for decades. Unlike the Clivus and Tiger Toilet, you get pure urine that after up to 6 months of storage is safe to handle ("sterile"), smell free and even more potent as a fertilizer. The compost should also be almost smell free when not mixed with urine. If you're interested in this, look up urine storage at the SSWM website. And worm-based sanitation at the IWBSA website. (Note that "vermicomposting toilet" often refers to flush toilets with urine mixed in, I'm talking about no-flush direct-drop or ultra-low-flush.)
Also, I think sawdust is mainly added to balance out the nitrogen from urine, and prevent smell caused by the urine. When diverting urine, I don't think that's needed?
But like the Clivus and Tiger Toilet, the bed of the compost tank (which could be just an IBC tote) should be prepared with wood chips (worms love that) and other carbon-rich materials on top of a drainage layer.
I composted fresh humanure along with vegetable scraps bedding of straw newspapers and cardboard once the worms have processed this are the dangerous pathogens gone?
Anna Evey had a vermicomposting flush toilet in her book, "Solviva."
www.vermicompostingtoilets.net/
Yes and she still does. It's been running over 20 years with no problem whatsoever, according to her. I developed a simple system based on her's and it works very well. It can have management issues for sure - you have to engage with and maintain the system. It's not going to function like a mains sewer! But it's also far less work than a humanure bucket system. See my main comment for more details.
Jeff why the assertion that high levels of carbon are detrimental to worm castings quality.
I think you misunderstood. The carbons, ( actually the lack of), is part of human error. My take was that carbon needs to be added. 🤔/😉?
@@waynetadlock9719 No, a lot of carbon is added to the human feces (sawdust, chips) so there will be no smell, and to absorb liquids (in compost toilets for campers they separate the urine and try to keep the waste that they need to cover with celluluse dry). But that is more to keep the feces w/o smells and w/o need for a lot of weight and water. The campers can dispose off the urin in public toilets (they have a separate plastic canister for that). And one conainer for solids.
But since you add lots of carbon rich material - and more if you do not remove urine (which would be a good liquid fertilizer) the processed compost / substrate is heavily on the carbon rich side and it was broken down by fungi.
That is useful, and there is value of processing the excrements w/o water, BUT it is also low in nitrogen. The same would be the case if you let wood or wood chips break down on their own. Good soil but it is not rich in certain nutrients, it is ANOTHER resource if you will and different from compost for growing vegetable. For instance building soil volume and mass, the ability to store and slowly release water etc. Could be also very valuable to improve clay soils.
You would have the same situation if you let a pile of branches or thorns sit by themselves in a heap. It does have value (breeding grounds for wildbirds and hedgehogs and insects etc), after 1 - 3 years the heap will go down, eventually that celluluse (wood) will break down and form substrate / soil, that is water absorbant BUT it is not the right substrate for veggies which just need lots of nutrients and especially nitrogen.
On the other hand if you have very heavy clay or loam soil, and you have problems with no soil life, nor air, pores and standing water (drainage problems) composts from carbon rich material could be perfect to fluff it up, increase the ability to hold water w/o being wet and give it structure. Especially clay soils can profit from that. Clay is nutrient rich (mineral particles), so it only needs some nitrogen and it would make for wonderful soil after a few years. If you do not have the space or time you would have to fix and work the substrate, by adding urine, or other nitrogen sources. But that can become a hassle and also a source of error.
If a person SELLS the worm compost, that may be a complication / source of error they should not airm for. If you build your customer base and you have one badly managed batch (you are still learining) - that can cost you customers. People will not always tell you, sometimes they do not even know it was your compost (that is supposed to be good for vegies but was made unfit for that purpose because you tried to squeeze in another job for the worms). Sometimes underwhelmed customers just don't come back for the next purchase. On the other hands if (rookie) gardeners make excellent experiences with your compost they will be hooked - to gardening and to your product and come back and they will do the marketing for you (word of mouth).
So when making compost for sale I would not play around with humanure. Either giving it more time or handling it separately and speeding up things with urine gifts, or hunting for leaves and lawn clippings. Coffe shops are good or food scraps from restaurant.
One way would be to give it to trees or bushes that can deal with low nutrient soils or even like that (if they are decorative or as bee fodder), another way would be to add it to soil in beds or raised beds (or as filler at the bottom) but to add urine. When it is still fresh it is still high in nitrogen (it has not yet been used for any decomposition processes). Not sure what happens if urin gets stale.
Either you manage it and add nitrogen or you use it as planting soil for nitrogen fixers like lupines or peas (or the tree that they use for chop and drop leucaemia - that can become invasive, and not sure if it would grow well in cooler climates. But it is a nitrogen fixing trees, that is massively cut back and they can harvest lots of green leaves and branches, even firewood every year). They could deal well with nitrogen deficient substrate.
The expectation if you plant any lupines (flowers, they also can become invasive) or peas would not be harvests, but soil improvement and giving any pathogens more time to vanish. Another level of safety. If the peas etc. grow well, all the better.
When one lets worms handle the humanure it also adds that level of safety and they process it faster BUT for the price of robbing the worm castings of nutrients.
@@xyzsame4081 Thank you. Your comment made me curious enough to watch the video again, with intensity.
I suppose it's a matter of management practice. Up until 1:47 Mr. Lawton explains why and how COMPOSTING, humanure with carbons IS successful through vermicomposting.
After 1:47 he explains how and why already fully COMPOSTED humanure then fed to the worms is NOT successful.
Good to know. Thanks.
I agree that high carbon worm compost literally sucks... nitrogen. My solution is to mix final vermicompost with lots of other old soil which isn't nitrogen deficient & chicken manure. Yes, vermicompost may help plants initially, but a few months later you get yellow leaves.
Would adding in pee help for the boost in nitrogen?
Anyone reading may consider black solder flies I’ve been curious to try this and they would be my go to for composting it quickly. Anyone let me know if you’ve tried this.
Won't the fly larva grow up and fly away with the nutrients?
@@wshyangify not if you harvest them. But even if they do crawl away and pupate you still have their leftovers (old exoskeletons and their poop) witch are super beneficial for new plants.
Would a vermicompost pit toilet/latrine work?
Yes, Tiger Toilet is a variation of that. See also the Wikipedia article for Vermifilter toilet.
"Commercially produced" results of many things tend to be low-quality, due to their desire for quick results, low-grade inputs, and failure to train and properly oversee their employees.
I would like to see a video from you that shows how to do it right on a small family farm. People all over the world have been using humanure as a rich source of nutrients for millennia. Are we simply too delicate, just too stupid to get it right in the supposedly superior industrial countries?
He said in the video that it was a low grade fertiliser. In addition to that you have the danger.
@@nathanlewis42 it's only low grade because of the high carbon content- If- you Vermacompost Humanure. Which can be off set by letting your humanure cook in the compost for a year before adding it to a worm farm, while makings sure your worm farm get plenty of greens. So you treat humanure as a brown essentially.
The usefulness depends upon what people who are providing the manure are eating, and the danger of human born pathogens really depends on how the humanure is handled.
Lawton doesn't Vermacompost with humanure, but he does use humanure for fruit trees on his farm & high quality humanure really is one of the best things you can mulch with for fruit trees.
I don't think its a matter of us being to stupid or delicate to use humanure in the west.
I just think most of the general public don't understand soil science well enough to grasp that there is a right way of handling Humanure or that the need is there when the average lawn Gardner can just go pick up low grade bovine or chicken manure for free in most the country.
Water toilets are nice easy to forget, composting toilets require more work and thought. Not much, but enough to make most people look at you funny when you say you flush with sawdust lol
Check out www.vermicompostingtoilets.net/ for a working system. I've made a facebook group too, Vermicomposting Flush Toilets. facebook.com/groups/vermiloo/
@@libraryofpangea7018 I think most people treat humanure as a brown ......sorry, I couldn't help but have a giggle 😂
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