I went to drawing Workshop for like 4 years that allow you to go an your pace until the economy force the teacher to move away, but looking at what I learned from online education, I wish that the instructor would have been more strict with the fundamentals. He did encourage us and taught us very fundamental stuff, but he was very permissive with our comfort zones, although he did encourage to explore new styles and experiment
i'm i art school right now and indeed, we barely make our homework. congratulations stan. we do get tonnes of it tough. what i'm liking the most is the kind of people you meet here. it's a specific type of odd personalities you find in art.
I'm a junior in college. When I first started, I was technically an art student - but I was only focusing on my pre-reqs first semester of freshman year. I didn't take it seriously and did horribly. Second semester, after almost getting kicked out for bad grades, I took my first art class plus art history. I thought it was stupid (it was a 2-D foundations course) and I changed my major to graphic arts management with a minor in business my entire sophomore year. I liked the business and I LOVED the one screen printing class I took, but I wasn't really sold on this either. Then, my fall semester junior year I was a computer technology major still with a minor in business - I wanted a degree that was "useful." But I wasn't having fun, and the math class was giving me panic attacks. After being miserable for yet another semester, I made the switch this spring term back to a BFA with a concentration in printmaking. I want to continue my minor in business, as well as adding a minor in art history. I feel like this is what I should have been doing the whole time, but I think trying other things helped me figure out what I did and didn't want to do. I'm thankful for the chance to discover the printing business as well as business as a whole, and to have learned that maybe being an IT person wasn't going to necessarily be the right path for me, because I wanted to do it for the money. Right now (even with the campus shutdown and switch to online) I am the happiest I've ever been in college because I'm doing what I want without shame and thinking I'll learn nothing, because I've certainly learned a lot about myself and the things I'm truly interested in - and things I might have not been exposed to if it weren't for university!
I loved my Art School. I got the oportunity of learning with art doctors and masters. One of them won a prize of best independent comic book! Most of the teachers were amazing. I met a couple friends and even got a girlfriend! Got some tecnical skills, emotional, rational and social experience that really shaped me as a person. I am just learning digital painting now and I am glad I had some traditional training. I love the podcast! Thank you guys!
I have not yet gone to art school, as I am 12, and no, I'm not that Robert kid. I have not struggled as I have been to an outside of school art class, but I don't believe that art school makes a difference for kids. For adults, I believe it would make a difference because of all the things you can learn if you can't learn these things on your own.
If I can get knowledge anywhere I'm not going into debt tens of thousands of dollars in art school. Discipline is the missing element and that you have to provide yourself.
I'm blessed that my country provides free education including art school 🙏 you're completely right that self-discipline is the most important part, but structure of lessons, and good mentors can help tremendously too I think c:
@@artistsukh1127 a lot of european countries have free university In Portugal where im from it's not free but its 1000€ a year and i have full scholarship and dont have to pay anything back , so almost nothing compared to america or other places
I was in a engineering major and started art in my late college years. After graduation I pay money to professional artists to give me assignment because otherwise I wouldn't do it and to give me feedback. Self-teaching can get you far but it takes much more time.
I'm selftought artist currently working in the game industry and never attended the art school. I always hear about selftought artist who became very successful in their field. And I used to think that art school is not necessary. I did not feel like I missed something becouse I did not know what I really miss do not attending the art school. But I changed my mind and now I have a mentor and feel superconfident) It's so much easier to learn something with teacher then trying to be teacher and puple at once.
@@haileyt857 Look around in your local area, Talk to your Art teacher. Often Art teacher, and school teacher in General, are fairly connected or can give you a tip on where to look or who to ask. Sometimes there are smaller Art courses in your local area giving 1.5 hours lessons for Money or maybe there even exists a group of people who Go on walks together and draw landscapes. Or do act drawing etc. Just keep your eyes Open and don't be afraid too ask.
Hi Guys, first time I have listened/watched. I went to art school at university. Finishing school at 16 and I wanted to be a professional artist doing portraiture. My portfolio showed skill in drawing so I was accepted. After completing drawing classes, painting, design etc, I left university with a degree, a bill and less skills than I went in with. Upon leaving, even I could see that the work I was producing was not a professional standard - as was most of the graduates, maybe I just couldn't make it as an artist - so I stopped. I didn't do any artwork for 25 years. Recently, I came across a book by Juliette Aristides and compared an atelier education to what I paid for. I realized just how bad the university education (if you can call it that) was. I am now 47 and I am starting from scratch.
I went to two. I went to the art program at NYU... and I hated it. Life drawing class was fine, but the rest of the program was mired in the concept art of the 60s... telling us to "feel the space" without explaining any of the underlying principles behind such a statement. I wanted anatomy, perspective, color theory, design theory etc. etc. Then I went to Columbus College of Art and Design at 26. And it was everything I wanted. The hardest 3 years of my life, as I was freelancing at the same time, sometimes ganging up my professional work with class work (thank you to those teachers who allowed that). But what I was learning that week was being folded into the professional work that I was doing. It killed a marriage, but it was so worth it. CCAD supposedly had the 2nd largest out of class workload in the country, right after Princeton. It was a slog, it was designed to overload us. So we would have to choose what we really wanted to do.
Follow up: Why do art schools still exist? I think the technical demands of professional illustration art is pretty high. And art school can be a shortcut to learning those things. My mother is an artist, self taught. She knows all the things that I know (we express it very differently) and she learned it over, from experimentation and reading. I learned many of the basics in 3 years... or at least learned the stepping stones to where to go to next. Was art school better? No. But it was my path and it made sense to me. It was not ceremonial for me... NYU already had served that function. I went back to school at 26 because I wanted to be a better artist. I never cared about a piece of paper saying I graduated, I wanted knowledge. CCAD was a choice because I was blown away by their program and it was exactly what I wanted to learn. I had looked at about 20 art schools, 6 others in person. Walking in the hallways of CCAD, I had made my decision. Based on the artwork on the wall.
I didn't go to an art school but I did get a 2year degree in graphic design, which had a mix of computer course and traditional life drawing courses in a studio setting. My biggest take aways from my college days was that I actually hated doing graphic design, loved illustration, and.....that I'm absolutely terrible at managing my time and keeping myself on track by myself. Those were definitely the most artistically productive time of my life. Staying diligent in making time for art, especially passion projects, has been a real struggle for me over the years, even though it's what I love.
You forgot that some of the people that are watching might have gone to school for art but didn't take it seriously until they reached midlife then realized they didn't have the basics, that's why they might still be struggling. This might be like getting a second chance and starting over.
Taking and giving critique is key. I always prefer to hear and give the bad, really tear in to it - that is how you improve. If I want praise I just talk to my mom, if I want to improve I talk to people whom are better than me roasting my work.
I didn't go to a specialised art school I went to a general college which taught several art subjects. I paid for the first term which was around £750 out of £1300, I did not finish this course because after the first month there they were not teaching me what I had been led to believe I was signing up for. So what do I mean by not teaching me what I wanted? To put it simply it was we did various art projects but they didn't teach you the fundermentals of drawing, gesture, blocking out, perspective, proportion etc it was a case of here is the project, go research and create a piece of painted finished artwork to be handed in for review. Since I was paying for this course I was very critical and I did ask the teachers if we'd be learning these concepts to which I never got a full answer except for life drawing in which I was told flatly they don't do that here because they dont want to offend the students. I learned from this experience, I do want to go to an art school because I think having a diploma and networking would be advantageous but I am also there to learn. I didn't feel I was getting the education I paid for and left and learned to better research before making the plunge because it is a big commitment of time and money.
I live in a small 3rd world country. I went to a local university with a fine arts department. For context, I want to become a concept artist for games and animated movies. At the university my department was a part of the bigger architecture faculty. Basically they treated our mandatory lessons as elective choices for the architecture guys, which was frustrating, as the people who needed those lessons the most barely got them. I wanted to drop out the same year and start working part time jobs and continue my education online, where I knew I could find lessons worthwhile my money. However my parents were adamant about getting a degree, so I stayed. I'll be honest, I think I could have just switched to a completely different department, but at the time I didn't consider the option. It's been 2 years since I graduated, I've worked at all sort of jobs for about 6 months each before quitting and trying to focus on art. The thing is when working it's hard to find the time and energy to invest into art, especially when you're still learning - it comes with failure and errors. When you try to go all out on art and quit work, you get overwhelmed by the guilt of putting aside your responsibilities as a (young) adult. Your parents want you to be able to stand on your own two feet, to see you succeed, yet here you are unable to do both. To sum it all up, my time at the art school was wasted, everything I learned was self-taught. If I was going to do it all over again, I would take a gap year, do my absolute best, learn all i could online and try to find freelance work. If that didn't pan out at the end of the year I'd research other ways to get into the industry such as programming or 3d modelling and get a degree in that. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Kind of in the same situation right now, I'm going to finish my studies because of my parents and because a degree helps for getting visas. But I'm kind of learning art on my own with books and courses because my career focuses more on graphic design rather than art fundamentals :/
I think the "coming of age" or ritualistic value of going to college (mentioned at 19:10) is more dramatic in the USA than it is in other cultures. I think the US's reliance on the car forces children to be less self-sufficient in their transportation (In Australia, japan etc, many kids walk to school/activities or take themselves on public transport) Additionally, at least in Australia, we don't move far away for uni, and we don't have dorms. Many people still live at home while going to Uni. I went to art school. Even with a generous interest-free government loan, it's not worth it y'all.
Dude, Does Stan know about the huge backlash that happened with Better Help? Of how many of the therapist weren't certified and how all these youtubers were promoting em just because they gave a shit ton of money. Better help got a really bad image and a lot of youtubers got dragged with the scandal too. You guys should get a different sponsor
I was worried about the same thing. But at the same time that was 2 years ago right? Was Better Help forced to hire REAL counselors? Or right their wrongs? I need to do some more research into this...
So glad to have this podcast back. I plan on taking mostly art classes next semester at my technical college and while I know it’s not the same as art college, I’m glad that I have enough credits that allows me the freedom to do it. It’ll be nice having these podcasts to help motivate me.
I got through art school on the GI Bill but it's hard for me to recommend it due to the expense. At the end of the day, it boils down to money and here I think the literal cost outweighs any real benefit. I can't speak for other forms of art education, but the 4 year university art school is just not a sensible investment in my opinion, as much as I value the experiences and knowledge I gained there. I will say Proko's advice of working on your own stuff on top of your school assignments is really important, and that you should keep doing the work over breaks and vacation.
didn't go to art school, but went to design school for graphic design. What Marshall said about the grading system really hit home. A lot of the times the teachers gave the highest grades to the students whose style they liked best( the 90s corporate look,which coincidentally was also the time when most of the teachers started their careers) while other students whose work was more modern/experimental got average/below average depending on how much it deviated from the corporate look. This is totally not a reflection of the "real world" now that I'm working in design professionally. A lot of my peers who didn't get the highest grades but whose work was excellent ended up working for the best companies. What did like about the experience was that it had a good library of books which I learnt a lot from(arguably I learnt more from those and other online resources than from my teachers). The curriculum was definitely a great starting point for laying a foundation of which I can expand upon. Before that, I had zero knowledge of design and didn't even want to go into graphic design lol. From that point of view it was a good thing I went to school since it forced me to be there and learn it. There was also one really great teacher which made the experience worth it from how much I learned from him. Not to mention being there surrounded by classmates motivated me to improve. The presence of people physically being there that you can interact with, make friends with, be mentored by is to me the biggest pro of school. Mind you, I've been learning art by myself through mostly online resources and am enjoying it immensely.
also! I feel like the best reason I would go to art school isn't touched upon here: to get REAL models posing for you in 3d to draw instead of going off online pictures. I can't truly vouch for how much a difference it makes learning from 2d pc pictures vs a 3d model but I can only imagine it would add a lot.
I just realized that the draftsmen intro theme had no actual musical instruments being played, only the sound of a pencil being "played" according to the note's and a piece of paper being ripped slowly as a build up. Edit:Or maybe it's a piece of tape being slowly pulled
I'm just going to find resources online. Because of the types of people I have started to surrounded myself with online, I feel so motivated. I just bought an iPad, Apple Pencil and a load of video courses this last weekend and can't wait to start developing my skills.
There's' another angle to structure that's not just about imposed deadline, and that's curriculum. This is not just knowledge, but also the structure in the presentation of the knowledge. This can come from mentoship, but doesn't have to be as personalized, and my personal finding is that self-designed curriculum can often fall short on understanding the scaffolding between skills and concepts.
So, is there currently at least ONE online art school which has all the benefits of art school (time management, structure, community, etc.), but affordable, teaches only what's needed, and makes a student ready for real world???
I'm an art school grad and this is amazing, because I'm now teaching myself the fundamental techniques of drawing since I didn't get any of that in art school lol. The only thing they teach you in art school is how to think about and talk about art and it's history. So this podcast is perfect for an art school grad looking to develop their craft more.
thanks for putting out these series for those of us who don't have access to dedicated art learning environment it is a blessing to get inside thoughts of two professional practitioners to help them more carefully find their way really appreciated :-)
I went to art school for 2 years and I feel like it was totally unnecessary. Now I am currently in a mentorship with Anthony jones while also in a super supportive/competitive concept art discord group where we paint together every day. I never had that in art school, everyone was out for themselves.
omg that subject is perfectly for me ....this is my last year in school and am very struggling about the coulge i will go .... i love art .... i love science .... am 100% sure you will help me .... thank you alot .... lets start the video .
I stopped doing art when I was young because people kept telling me the only way to make money was advertising which sounded really boring to me. I wish I had gone to school.
Being Malaysian, I do want to go to an art school in other countries, especially the US. We have art schools here, but most focus on graphic design & CG but don't have strong art foundation. Plus, resources such as life drawing here are very limited. I would love to go to any American, Australian etc. art school if I can afford to :(
I would highly reconsider going to the US and instead go to a European school instead. The debt you’d get yourself into here in the states isn’t worth it. Australia maaaay be a reasonable choice, however I don’t know too much about their programs.
Im currently studying art at a university in Chile, its really not expensive and we get live models, the sad part is that the fundamentals arent really taught here, luckily i have the internet where i basically learnt everything that i know about art:
My experience: I studied in a public college in Brazil for free and it was still not worthy. My teachers didn't care about teaching, I met very few people who had the same interest as me and learned very little about how to make art or how to make a career out of it. I learn online and for free for a much better quality than what I had at University. It sounds insane to me the amount of money that goes into a art degree in the US.
To be fair, a degree you pay for should ostensibly be worth more, because it should translate into better quality control and instructors who are paid more. I don't think that's actually how it works currently, though, at least in the US.
I did (technically) go to art school but I chose to do a more career targeted course and I deeply regret that. I really wish I'd done fine art instead.
i am interested in fashion design and by self teaching i spent 2 years only drawing face i didnt know the whole picture and my "mental representation"(which i guess marshall knows what i am talking about)was in real trouble. after six month of an open college i just felt why the fk i just waste 2 years. i think most important think about school is configuration of "mental representation" even by means of lessons you think are not necessary at all
I think in this day and age, almost anything can be learned efficiently from the internet. The only advantage I see in attending college is that we get to make contacts. Other than that, I don't see any reasons to get a formal education.
This may be a dumb question, but I am going to ask it anyway. I'm curious as to the difference between art school and studying art at college. does art school include colleges that have a large art program i.e. Yale school of art? wouldn't a normal college act as an in-between of not going to school and going to art school?
I have just a quick question for you guys! Would an animation degree from a state college be considered the same as "art school"? I already have my BA in animation, and I've thought about taking some new classes. I have also thought about just going all-in on a 3-year program. The biggest factor of saying no is money, and time. I worry about hitting 30 and not getting my foot in the door once.
Did you go to art school? Tell us what you liked most about it.
I went to drawing Workshop for like 4 years that allow you to go an your pace until the economy force the teacher to move away, but looking at what I learned from online education, I wish that the instructor would have been more strict with the fundamentals. He did encourage us and taught us very fundamental stuff, but he was very permissive with our comfort zones, although he did encourage to explore new styles and experiment
i'm i art school right now and indeed, we barely make our homework. congratulations stan. we do get tonnes of it tough. what i'm liking the most is the kind of people you meet here. it's a specific type of odd personalities you find in art.
I'm a junior in college. When I first started, I was technically an art student - but I was only focusing on my pre-reqs first semester of freshman year. I didn't take it seriously and did horribly. Second semester, after almost getting kicked out for bad grades, I took my first art class plus art history. I thought it was stupid (it was a 2-D foundations course) and I changed my major to graphic arts management with a minor in business my entire sophomore year. I liked the business and I LOVED the one screen printing class I took, but I wasn't really sold on this either. Then, my fall semester junior year I was a computer technology major still with a minor in business - I wanted a degree that was "useful." But I wasn't having fun, and the math class was giving me panic attacks. After being miserable for yet another semester, I made the switch this spring term back to a BFA with a concentration in printmaking. I want to continue my minor in business, as well as adding a minor in art history. I feel like this is what I should have been doing the whole time, but I think trying other things helped me figure out what I did and didn't want to do. I'm thankful for the chance to discover the printing business as well as business as a whole, and to have learned that maybe being an IT person wasn't going to necessarily be the right path for me, because I wanted to do it for the money. Right now (even with the campus shutdown and switch to online) I am the happiest I've ever been in college because I'm doing what I want without shame and thinking I'll learn nothing, because I've certainly learned a lot about myself and the things I'm truly interested in - and things I might have not been exposed to if it weren't for university!
I loved my Art School. I got the oportunity of learning with art doctors and masters. One of them won a prize of best independent comic book! Most of the teachers were amazing. I met a couple friends and even got a girlfriend! Got some tecnical skills, emotional, rational and social experience that really shaped me as a person. I am just learning digital painting now and I am glad I had some traditional training. I love the podcast! Thank you guys!
I have not yet gone to art school, as I am 12, and no, I'm not that Robert kid. I have not struggled as I have been to an outside of school art class, but I don't believe that art school makes a difference for kids. For adults, I believe it would make a difference because of all the things you can learn if you can't learn these things on your own.
I hated the assignments in art school, but now I miss the structure of having someone tell me what to create
This is EXACTLY my problem
That's why it's nice to have a book to follow.
If I can get knowledge anywhere I'm not going into debt tens of thousands of dollars in art school. Discipline is the missing element
and that you have to provide yourself.
I'm blessed that my country provides free education including art school 🙏 you're completely right that self-discipline is the most important part, but structure of lessons, and good mentors can help tremendously too I think c:
@@dankdegl612 where are you from?
@@artistsukh1127 a lot of european countries have free university
In Portugal where im from it's not free but its 1000€ a year and i have full scholarship and dont have to pay anything back , so almost nothing compared to america or other places
It's 3000€ a year in ireland (~$3100)
I was in a engineering major and started art in my late college years.
After graduation I pay money to professional artists to give me assignment because otherwise I wouldn't do it and to give me feedback.
Self-teaching can get you far but it takes much more time.
Also depends on if school aligns with your art goals or not
I'm selftought artist currently working in the game industry and never attended the art school. I always hear about selftought artist who became very successful in their field. And I used to think that art school is not necessary. I did not feel like I missed something becouse I did not know what I really miss do not attending the art school. But I changed my mind and now I have a mentor and feel superconfident) It's so much easier to learn something with teacher then trying to be teacher and puple at once.
Kaser33 I’m curious to ask , have you attended some workshops,? If so, what are the benefits?
Where does one find a mentor? I’d much rather have that than attend art school.
@@haileyt857 Look around in your local area, Talk to your Art teacher.
Often Art teacher, and school teacher in General, are fairly connected or can give you a tip on where to look or who to ask.
Sometimes there are smaller Art courses in your local area giving 1.5 hours lessons for Money or maybe there even exists a group of people who Go on walks together and draw landscapes. Or do act drawing etc.
Just keep your eyes Open and don't be afraid too ask.
Hi Guys, first time I have listened/watched. I went to art school at university. Finishing school at 16 and I wanted to be a professional artist doing portraiture. My portfolio showed skill in drawing so I was accepted. After completing drawing classes, painting, design etc, I left university with a degree, a bill and less skills than I went in with. Upon leaving, even I could see that the work I was producing was not a professional standard - as was most of the graduates, maybe I just couldn't make it as an artist - so I stopped. I didn't do any artwork for 25 years. Recently, I came across a book by Juliette Aristides and compared an atelier education to what I paid for. I realized just how bad the university education (if you can call it that) was. I am now 47 and I am starting from scratch.
did anyone else not even notice stan and marshall in the thumbnail lmao
I went to two. I went to the art program at NYU... and I hated it. Life drawing class was fine, but the rest of the program was mired in the concept art of the 60s... telling us to "feel the space" without explaining any of the underlying principles behind such a statement. I wanted anatomy, perspective, color theory, design theory etc. etc.
Then I went to Columbus College of Art and Design at 26. And it was everything I wanted. The hardest 3 years of my life, as I was freelancing at the same time, sometimes ganging up my professional work with class work (thank you to those teachers who allowed that). But what I was learning that week was being folded into the professional work that I was doing. It killed a marriage, but it was so worth it. CCAD supposedly had the 2nd largest out of class workload in the country, right after Princeton. It was a slog, it was designed to overload us. So we would have to choose what we really wanted to do.
Follow up: Why do art schools still exist? I think the technical demands of professional illustration art is pretty high. And art school can be a shortcut to learning those things. My mother is an artist, self taught. She knows all the things that I know (we express it very differently) and she learned it over, from experimentation and reading. I learned many of the basics in 3 years... or at least learned the stepping stones to where to go to next. Was art school better? No. But it was my path and it made sense to me.
It was not ceremonial for me... NYU already had served that function. I went back to school at 26 because I wanted to be a better artist. I never cared about a piece of paper saying I graduated, I wanted knowledge. CCAD was a choice because I was blown away by their program and it was exactly what I wanted to learn. I had looked at about 20 art schools, 6 others in person. Walking in the hallways of CCAD, I had made my decision. Based on the artwork on the wall.
What I came for: 8 reasons to go to art school.
What I got: Marshalls tips for for working in a recording studio.
I didn't go to an art school but I did get a 2year degree in graphic design, which had a mix of computer course and traditional life drawing courses in a studio setting.
My biggest take aways from my college days was that I actually hated doing graphic design, loved illustration, and.....that I'm absolutely terrible at managing my time and keeping myself on track by myself.
Those were definitely the most artistically productive time of my life. Staying diligent in making time for art, especially passion projects, has been a real struggle for me over the years, even though it's what I love.
"And I'm not just teasing! I really do feel like that tree, this apple hUuUuUuUm, dEliCious, I love you"
You forgot that some of the people that are watching might have gone to school for art but didn't take it seriously until they reached midlife then realized they didn't have the basics, that's why they might still be struggling. This might be like getting a second chance and starting over.
Haha he had to clarify he's not infected lol
Lydia Grace they didn't know what's gonna happen back then HAHA
Taking and giving critique is key. I always prefer to hear and give the bad, really tear in to it - that is how you improve. If I want praise I just talk to my mom, if I want to improve I talk to people whom are better than me roasting my work.
43:06 It's really easy to make a walk cycle of an unicorn. You just do the walk cycle of a horse, and later add the horn.
I didn't go to a specialised art school I went to a general college which taught several art subjects. I paid for the first term which was around £750 out of £1300, I did not finish this course because after the first month there they were not teaching me what I had been led to believe I was signing up for.
So what do I mean by not teaching me what I wanted? To put it simply it was we did various art projects but they didn't teach you the fundermentals of drawing, gesture, blocking out, perspective, proportion etc it was a case of here is the project, go research and create a piece of painted finished artwork to be handed in for review.
Since I was paying for this course I was very critical and I did ask the teachers if we'd be learning these concepts to which I never got a full answer except for life drawing in which I was told flatly they don't do that here because they dont want to offend the students.
I learned from this experience, I do want to go to an art school because I think having a diploma and networking would be advantageous but I am also there to learn. I didn't feel I was getting the education I paid for and left and learned to better research before making the plunge because it is a big commitment of time and money.
I live in a small 3rd world country. I went to a local university with a fine arts department. For context, I want to become a concept artist for games and animated movies. At the university my department was a part of the bigger architecture faculty. Basically they treated our mandatory lessons as elective choices for the architecture guys, which was frustrating, as the people who needed those lessons the most barely got them.
I wanted to drop out the same year and start working part time jobs and continue my education online, where I knew I could find lessons worthwhile my money. However my parents were adamant about getting a degree, so I stayed. I'll be honest, I think I could have just switched to a completely different department, but at the time I didn't consider the option.
It's been 2 years since I graduated, I've worked at all sort of jobs for about 6 months each before quitting and trying to focus on art. The thing is when working it's hard to find the time and energy to invest into art, especially when you're still learning - it comes with failure and errors. When you try to go all out on art and quit work, you get overwhelmed by the guilt of putting aside your responsibilities as a (young) adult. Your parents want you to be able to stand on your own two feet, to see you succeed, yet here you are unable to do both.
To sum it all up, my time at the art school was wasted, everything I learned was self-taught. If I was going to do it all over again, I would take a gap year, do my absolute best, learn all i could online and try to find freelance work. If that didn't pan out at the end of the year I'd research other ways to get into the industry such as programming or 3d modelling and get a degree in that.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Kind of in the same situation right now, I'm going to finish my studies because of my parents and because a degree helps for getting visas. But I'm kind of learning art on my own with books and courses because my career focuses more on graphic design rather than art fundamentals :/
I think the "coming of age" or ritualistic value of going to college (mentioned at 19:10) is more dramatic in the USA than it is in other cultures.
I think the US's reliance on the car forces children to be less self-sufficient in their transportation (In Australia, japan etc, many kids walk to school/activities or take themselves on public transport)
Additionally, at least in Australia, we don't move far away for uni, and we don't have dorms. Many people still live at home while going to Uni.
I went to art school. Even with a generous interest-free government loan, it's not worth it y'all.
Hey Stan, I'm an art student, but also a parent of a future art student.: )
Dude, Does Stan know about the huge backlash that happened with Better Help? Of how many of the therapist weren't certified and how all these youtubers were promoting em just because they gave a shit ton of money.
Better help got a really bad image and a lot of youtubers got dragged with the scandal too. You guys should get a different sponsor
I was worried about the same thing. But at the same time that was 2 years ago right? Was Better Help forced to hire REAL counselors? Or right their wrongs? I need to do some more research into this...
Was gonna say the same thing. I just learned of this whole drama recently though but it was huge when it blew up.
so glad this show is back!
Current art school student who just wrapped up their 2nd year is here listening lol.
So glad to have this podcast back. I plan on taking mostly art classes next semester at my technical college and while I know it’s not the same as art college, I’m glad that I have enough credits that allows me the freedom to do it. It’ll be nice having these podcasts to help motivate me.
I got through art school on the GI Bill but it's hard for me to recommend it due to the expense. At the end of the day, it boils down to money and here I think the literal cost outweighs any real benefit. I can't speak for other forms of art education, but the 4 year university art school is just not a sensible investment in my opinion, as much as I value the experiences and knowledge I gained there. I will say Proko's advice of working on your own stuff on top of your school assignments is really important, and that you should keep doing the work over breaks and vacation.
didn't go to art school, but went to design school for graphic design. What Marshall said about the grading system really hit home. A lot of the times the teachers gave the highest grades to the students whose style they liked best( the 90s corporate look,which coincidentally was also the time when most of the teachers started their careers) while other students whose work was more modern/experimental got average/below average depending on how much it deviated from the corporate look. This is totally not a reflection of the "real world" now that I'm working in design professionally. A lot of my peers who didn't get the highest grades but whose work was excellent ended up working for the best companies.
What did like about the experience was that it had a good library of books which I learnt a lot from(arguably I learnt more from those and other online resources than from my teachers). The curriculum was definitely a great starting point for laying a foundation of which I can expand upon. Before that, I had zero knowledge of design and didn't even want to go into graphic design lol. From that point of view it was a good thing I went to school since it forced me to be there and learn it. There was also one really great teacher which made the experience worth it from how much I learned from him. Not to mention being there surrounded by classmates motivated me to improve. The presence of people physically being there that you can interact with, make friends with, be mentored by is to me the biggest pro of school. Mind you, I've been learning art by myself through mostly online resources and am enjoying it immensely.
also! I feel like the best reason I would go to art school isn't touched upon here: to get REAL models posing for you in 3d to draw instead of going off online pictures. I can't truly vouch for how much a difference it makes learning from 2d pc pictures vs a 3d model but I can only imagine it would add a lot.
I just realized that the draftsmen intro theme had no actual musical instruments being played, only the sound of a pencil being "played" according to the note's and a piece of paper being ripped slowly as a build up.
Edit:Or maybe it's a piece of tape being slowly pulled
I'm just going to find resources online. Because of the types of people I have started to surrounded myself with online, I feel so motivated. I just bought an iPad, Apple Pencil and a load of video courses this last weekend and can't wait to start developing my skills.
5:55 I could listen to him say, "Were they not?" all day. Always great content.
Haha I'm in art school and I love to listen to these while doing my homework, in fact that's what I'm doing right now! XD
I like the weathered look of the chairs
I am from india and i have been studying art from your videos. Thank u for all the content u made . It means a lot.
There's' another angle to structure that's not just about imposed deadline, and that's curriculum. This is not just knowledge, but also the structure in the presentation of the knowledge. This can come from mentoship, but doesn't have to be as personalized, and my personal finding is that self-designed curriculum can often fall short on understanding the scaffolding between skills and concepts.
The horse in the bg has been updated! Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you! :)
I like all the new paintings you've hung on the walls!
I already said that last week but I'm really glad you guys are back.
It brings joy to my life to see "La llamada" by Remedios Varo on set :)
So, is there currently at least ONE online art school which has all the benefits of art school (time management, structure, community, etc.), but affordable, teaches only what's needed, and makes a student ready for real world???
Owl Polar sounds like a dream come true.
I'm an art school grad and this is amazing, because I'm now teaching myself the fundamental techniques of drawing since I didn't get any of that in art school lol. The only thing they teach you in art school is how to think about and talk about art and it's history. So this podcast is perfect for an art school grad looking to develop their craft more.
👏👏👏that awkward cut was incredible. Bravo.
Welcome back, guys!
Finally I have the show back that got me started wednesday mornings.
Really looking forward to this season!
I would like to hear about marshall and stans opinion on Canadian Colleges and art institutes, what do they think of them and if any is worth a shot.
Finally, I can get my dose of Marshall and Stan.
Maybe now I’ll stay sane during isolation.
thanks for putting out these series
for those of us who don't have access to dedicated art learning environment it is a blessing to get inside thoughts of two professional practitioners to help them more carefully find their way
really appreciated :-)
I didn’t have the college rituals since I lived closed to college as well but I did have the little rituals along the way
Team Marshall!!
the excitement is contagious
The draftsman is back 🎨 right as I start posting on UA-cam again!
Ngl, I kinda got scared for a second at that cold part. Glad you're doing fine Stan.💪🏽😎
So glad to have you guys back!!
Great Podcast honestly! love it
So happy to have this podcast back!!!
I love you guys so much. So refreshing.
I went to art school for 2 years and I feel like it was totally unnecessary. Now I am currently in a mentorship with Anthony jones while also in a super supportive/competitive concept art discord group where we paint together every day. I never had that in art school, everyone was out for themselves.
that was a rather dark start hahahah Live forever Marshall!
I waited so damn much for this 😭
omg that subject is perfectly for me ....this is my last year in school and am very struggling about the coulge i will go .... i love art .... i love science .... am 100% sure you will help me .... thank you alot .... lets start the video .
I'm 36 yo and aspiring to be a better artist and I listen to this. :)
We listen to the podcast while doing our homework!
You are bringing about some awesome talking points that you will be incorporating in your upcoming episodes. Looking forward to it!
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
So happy you guys are back! Love the podcast!
the new season called for a new intro :( glad this is back thou
So glad you're back, missed the show
i wanna be a time traveller to listen to all the other episodes right now, thanks guys for providing us with this useful drug
I love you guys so much omfghgggghhhhh!! 🥺 I’m glad you’re all back ✨
(23:57 just a time stamp for me)
The video quality looks very nice this time around. Wow
You kept your hair!! :'DDDDDD I love the chemistry between these two
Beautiful Podcast with super interesting topics, big Fan!!
Me and my friend just determined that Marshall is the Dumbledore of the muggles. s2
Been waiting for this all day!!
I just started following Noah Bradley on Twitter.
Aw man i cant turn on notification on this channel for some reason
i graduated last year as a programmer and i wish i knew most of the advice here, when i started 5 years ago
I stopped doing art when I was young because people kept telling me the only way to make money was advertising which sounded really boring to me. I wish I had gone to school.
I really enjoyed this episode
I'm listening...
Never too long guys
Watts Atelier, Grand Central Atelier and similar schools are the only "Art Schools" worth it
Being Malaysian, I do want to go to an art school in other countries, especially the US. We have art schools here, but most focus on graphic design & CG but don't have strong art foundation. Plus, resources such as life drawing here are very limited.
I would love to go to any American, Australian etc. art school if I can afford to :(
If you are going abroad why not consider Italy? Europe has an amazing art history and foundations
I would highly reconsider going to the US and instead go to a European school instead. The debt you’d get yourself into here in the states isn’t worth it. Australia maaaay be a reasonable choice, however I don’t know too much about their programs.
hi , welcome back
Im currently studying art at a university in Chile, its really not expensive and we get live models, the sad part is that the fundamentals arent really taught here, luckily i have the internet where i basically learnt everything that i know about art:
Do a show on how to get out of being a cog in a wheel
Lmao the casual roasting is hilarious😂
They changed the Horse!
Neat, Everquest.
Heeeey I am in art-school and am listening! 😂
Lots of life drawing from models was my favorite part.
Marshall: "You kept your hair."
Stan: "What?....and you didn't?" hahahahahahahhah Lord hahahahahha my heart, but man I laughed.
My experience: I studied in a public college in Brazil for free and it was still not worthy. My teachers didn't care about teaching, I met very few people who had the same interest as me and learned very little about how to make art or how to make a career out of it. I learn online and for free for a much better quality than what I had at University. It sounds insane to me the amount of money that goes into a art degree in the US.
To be fair, a degree you pay for should ostensibly be worth more, because it should translate into better quality control and instructors who are paid more. I don't think that's actually how it works currently, though, at least in the US.
Who's here still waiting for Marshall vandruf perspective courset that will featured with proko !!??
I did (technically) go to art school but I chose to do a more career targeted course and I deeply regret that. I really wish I'd done fine art instead.
i am interested in fashion design and by self teaching i spent 2 years only drawing face i didnt know the whole picture and my "mental representation"(which i guess marshall knows what i am talking about)was in real trouble. after six month of an open college i just felt why the fk i just waste 2 years. i think most important think about school is configuration of "mental representation" even by means of lessons you think are not necessary at all
@Draftsman "GodDammitMarshal!!" Should be the next Draftsman merch shirt. I would buy one or ten.
"OOOHH MAAAAAN, BOOOMMMM"
I think in this day and age, almost anything can be learned efficiently from the internet. The only advantage I see in attending college is that we get to make contacts. Other than that, I don't see any reasons to get a formal education.
I
This may be a dumb question, but I am going to ask it anyway. I'm curious as to the difference between art school and studying art at college. does art school include colleges that have a large art program i.e. Yale school of art? wouldn't a normal college act as an in-between of not going to school and going to art school?
Yaaaas Finally!!
“You kept your hair!?” XD
I have just a quick question for you guys! Would an animation degree from a state college be considered the same as "art school"?
I already have my BA in animation, and I've thought about taking some new classes. I have also thought about just going all-in on a 3-year program. The biggest factor of saying no is money, and time. I worry about hitting 30 and not getting my foot in the door once.