The idea that an artist learning from old masters is the same thing as AI scraping the internet for images is morally the same is a terrible argument. One is a human learning the way humans have always learned. The other is a business using the expertise of artists without consent to make money without compensation to the artist software used to get its skills. We can’t treat software as human. It isn’t. If they want to train this software they need to get permission. Also this won’t have a financial impact on fine art. Fine art is increasingly about intent. That is still a human thing even if they use ai as a tool. The commercial art space, illustration and graphic design will be greatly effected by this. A good art director will be able to do the work of ten freelancers. So it’s a bad time to be in the commercial art space.
Sure thing! But the UA-camr complaining about this issue had been profiting from making fan art of copyrighted content. If he wasn't a) complaining about AI scrapping the Internet or b) scrapping other artists' works himself, I would not bring it up the same way as I did. I think it should be the same standard - it doesn't matter if AI copies your work or another artist copies your work. It shouldn't be allowed if someone steals from me or AI steals from you and me. It's not because a human is doing it would be okay.
In China, there is a policy against spreading fake news. You could potentially be charged if you share fake news publicly, resulting in over X views. If you share it privately with your family and friends, that's fine. This made me think... In the future, policymakers will probably regulate the publication of AI-generated content, not the generation of it. Basically, whoever spreads certain content will be held accountable. Because if one uses it privately (without showing it to anyone else, let's say), it's hard to accuse this person or the AI.
Like you said, if they want to train the AI, they need to get permission. Yes, I agree. If an artist with millions of followers wants to publish a drawing of fan art (like the Arcane work Sam was drawing), he needs to get permission too. Maybe the social media platform can learn from sites like Coffee Press. Coffee Press is a POD company that acquired licensing from large studios before allowing artists to post their work on its site. This way, everyone is protected, and the right amount of money is collected to give back to the copyright holders. That's fair.
In the future, the conceptual ideas and emotive expression of the idea behind the art will drive the art market, and artists will have to get their values in check and find their voice, what is the message of the art. Programing the ai correctly to achieve a clear vision or even speak to the concept of a ai randomly generated aesthetic to fit an artists intent. I see it as a tool, like google images, it's the refinement of the aesthetic, the politics of those aesthetic, the concept, and so on that the conversation around the art will generate and with that the artists ability to own the message in the art. When the art is used to bring some kind of message or a set of values in an emotive and inspiring way, then maybe art will have more power to shape our futures through the art that reaches and inspires people, ai art on its own will be viewed as too overdone, but as a starting place its where we bring it as artists that will count going forward. It's already here, so we need to consider where we personally stand with it in regards to our own practice.
Very well said! “Emotional art” will be important indeed. I am not sure if there is already a word to describe this trend/niche. I think art activism (artivism) will also be a major niche because many of us want to share our values believes and influence people. That’s the subject of our next talk 😊
Such a great conversation that touched so many aspects of AI art! As a digital artist, I've recently begun delving into AI art as a tool to inspire and refine my creations. I believe it will become part of the artistic process one day regardless of the medium used.
This is a great, thought-provoking video! Thank you putting this out! I don't see AI as putting me out of work. I was a former illustrator in Manhattan for many years so I do feel that AI will greatly impact that field. It's more cost-effective to have AI do the work than to hire an illustrator given that multiple images can be had quite readily, giving a client much more options.. I have gone from the field of illustration into fine art. People will always want hand-painted art and even though I'm doing art by hand which will take much longer than AI generated art, there is a satisfaction in doing things by hand. This goes for people who don't really have any art skills to speak of but absolutely love paint parties. If someone likes the art enough, they will purchase an image in print form. They are not going to care if it was created by AI or by hand. It just seems to me that AI is going to make things a lot easier in so many fields and as you mention, with much less 'rigor'. My one real concern is that the brain will be less challenged with technology but I guess that is already happening.
Your gallerist is spot on with everything she said. No need for painters, sculptors, glass blowers, artists making functional art, etc...to be concerned. Digital/graphic designers, yes...this group could be thinned out. I have zero concerns about AI...and I know it won't be fabricating and making/packing and shipping (my painted glass chandeliers) anytime soon. My question is: will this trend discourage digital artists and illustrators from trying?? When I was in college, I was told not to bother becoming a graphic designer because 'computers' would be doing all the work. Nearly 30 years later... Glad I didn't listen to my art professors (who never sold any art anyway...but that's another topic). We have to learn to adapt and work with new technology without fear. Those that have what it takes to make it as professional artists always rise to the top. Those that don't...can always art art for fun.
Thanks for your message! With or without AI, digital artists (the ones typically showing art on ArtStation) have very little chance of making it anyway in the art world, as the art world is extremely close-minded and traditional. I am afraid most digital artists won’t be able to knock the door to the art world open. If they are encouraged to think twice before entering in this hostile place, it’s in a way a positive thing.
The issue with AI is that in order to create the image it needs to be trained on someone’s existing art. AI mines online work to build the resulting image. That pisses artists off. It does this so well it puts artists out of work. It does this so well non artists can use AI programs to create art from an artist’s work without them knowing. That is the issue. It’s a moral issue. Most of this chat focuses on art and technology which might be a different conversation.
Hi Martin, Before the talk, I discussed with Christine which angel she wanted to talk about. She is alright with touching upon all the aspects except for ethics. It would require us to do more in-depth research. As far as I know, some AI didn't use (or won't be using) copyrighted content. Some old masters' works are not covered by copyright anymore; therefore, they could be used to train. It's tough to generalize at this point as it evolves every week. Maybe in the near future, we will have everything regulated.
Great video, it was a thing I have been thinking about lately! Speaking of changing business models, I feel like NFTs will take a big chunk of the art market in the future as people having "original" digital images in a way people buy prints and be portable too! Imagine being at a cafe or a party and a few people showing off their NFTs that they own! BUT originals will always have a place among the true collectors!
@@VeryPrivateGallery EXACTLY! I figured prints can be limited and numbered... so can NFTs! Most of the NFTs are, IMHO trash and they were in a tulip phase where they were selling for ridiculous amounts, but I figured once they cool down they can actually be used by artist as an option vs prints!
NFTs are nothing but a link to an image. It's probably the stupidest way to spend money on art. You have zero guarantees the link won't brake, besides it's worthless. NFTs are bought only by people who don't know how NFTs work.
@@bluefernlove it is a link but ownership to one and blockchain to make it unique. I see it in a way where art collectors can just have the rights to a digital image vs the physical copy. The tulip phase in demand for them where people spend millions on simple things gave NFTs a bad name... and the crypto crash that took NFTs with it did not give them a trusting reputation, but when the smoke clears they will have a place in the art world!
"Art" was already "over" back in 1979 ("art" being "over" is called "The fall of the modernist paradigm"). It was made official by the work of Sherri Levine and her photographic reappropriations.
Before the emergence of AI generators, I struggled with the fact that there were so many artists online producing similar types of work to me; we are all inspired by similar things. So the question has always been, how do you stand out
True. That’s the most artists and most companies. I just felt like some artists are using the individual status to accuse companies. But not all individuals are innocent and not all companies are evil.
Not yet, although the first impression gives the impression that now everything is changing. It can create some great pictures, really great - but random. If you want the image to have certain content in a certain way, creating it requires control similar to digital image production. However, it is an excellent tool for that job. AI images are still small, quite small - not compare to real world art. A visible part of AI art is its ability to combine styles, that's what it seems to be good at. And yes, now everything is changing.
Thanks ladies!!! Great as always 😃 Can you make video on NFT? I'm an emerging artist and get a lot of messages on Instagram to buy as NFT... Good to hear your thoughts Thx
If you get contacted to make NFT art, I suggest please be careful. It could be a scam. I have seen artists being asked 300 dollars per work to sell as NFTs by who-knows-what-they-are-up-to kind of individuals and companies.
Same here, tons of messages on Instagram about nfts and commissions. I'm sure they're all people trying to scam me so I mostly ignore them. It's unfortunate because I naively thought putting my art up on Instagram would foster sincere interest in my work lol
@@wildernessisland2573 they look like scummers I always check their insta account and surprised they have thousands of followers and only few posts 😅 it's obvious they are dodgy... How can I find you on insta?? Interesting what your creating there😃
Ai scraping data is not the same artistic process of being inspired by other artists or using references, and if people can’t see that then we’ve really lost the plot.
If my art is stolen from me, I don't care if they stole it using a robot or using a painter. That's the plot from the copyright holder's perspective. A piece is stolen, and damage is done - AI is just a tool some people use to steal the works. After all it's PEOPLE who did the wrong. The artist influencer who complained about AI scarping data himself had been using copyrighted content without consent. I don't think he is in a great position to complain about it. If there is anyone else who had a CLEAN record that complained, I am all ears.
pretty much any white collar job performed on the computer is gonna go bye bye. there will always be human artists but they'll have to adapt to the new environment and create more tactile pieces like textured 3d wall installations. it will be awhile before ai robots take over the blue collar jobs so anything that requires a physical body is still in play. ai is already better than any human artist at conjuring up images but i am glad to announce it still has trouble with hands.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The idea that an artist learning from old masters is the same thing as AI scraping the internet for images is morally the same is a terrible argument. One is a human learning the way humans have always learned. The other is a business using the expertise of artists without consent to make money without compensation to the artist software used to get its skills.
We can’t treat software as human. It isn’t.
If they want to train this software they need to get permission.
Also this won’t have a financial impact on fine art. Fine art is increasingly about intent. That is still a human thing even if they use ai as a tool.
The commercial art space, illustration and graphic design will be greatly effected by this. A good art director will be able to do the work of ten freelancers. So it’s a bad time to be in the commercial art space.
Sure thing! But the UA-camr complaining about this issue had been profiting from making fan art of copyrighted content. If he wasn't a) complaining about AI scrapping the Internet or b) scrapping other artists' works himself, I would not bring it up the same way as I did. I think it should be the same standard - it doesn't matter if AI copies your work or another artist copies your work. It shouldn't be allowed if someone steals from me or AI steals from you and me. It's not because a human is doing it would be okay.
In China, there is a policy against spreading fake news. You could potentially be charged if you share fake news publicly, resulting in over X views. If you share it privately with your family and friends, that's fine. This made me think...
In the future, policymakers will probably regulate the publication of AI-generated content, not the generation of it. Basically, whoever spreads certain content will be held accountable. Because if one uses it privately (without showing it to anyone else, let's say), it's hard to accuse this person or the AI.
Like you said, if they want to train the AI, they need to get permission. Yes, I agree. If an artist with millions of followers wants to publish a drawing of fan art (like the Arcane work Sam was drawing), he needs to get permission too. Maybe the social media platform can learn from sites like Coffee Press. Coffee Press is a POD company that acquired licensing from large studios before allowing artists to post their work on its site. This way, everyone is protected, and the right amount of money is collected to give back to the copyright holders. That's fair.
Oh no worries the likes of sam altman already think about giving AI "human rights" and calling it their "child".
In the future, the conceptual ideas and emotive expression of the idea behind the art will drive the art market, and artists will have to get their values in check and find their voice, what is the message of the art. Programing the ai correctly to achieve a clear vision or even speak to the concept of a ai randomly generated aesthetic to fit an artists intent. I see it as a tool, like google images, it's the refinement of the aesthetic, the politics of those aesthetic, the concept, and so on that the conversation around the art will generate and with that the artists ability to own the message in the art. When the art is used to bring some kind of message or a set of values in an emotive and inspiring way, then maybe art will have more power to shape our futures through the art that reaches and inspires people, ai art on its own will be viewed as too overdone, but as a starting place its where we bring it as artists that will count going forward. It's already here, so we need to consider where we personally stand with it in regards to our own practice.
Very well said! “Emotional art” will be important indeed. I am not sure if there is already a word to describe this trend/niche.
I think art activism (artivism) will also be a major niche because many of us want to share our values believes and influence people. That’s the subject of our next talk 😊
Experience and information are different.
Such a great conversation that touched so many aspects of AI art! As a digital artist, I've recently begun delving into AI art as a tool to inspire and refine my creations. I believe it will become part of the artistic process one day regardless of the medium used.
Thanks for your message. Let's see how fast AI is accepted by the art community! :-)
I'm interested in the very thing you mentioned, what AI tools do you use?
@@gardeniainbloom812 I have played with Open AI Dall-e, Midjourney, Bluewillow and some other models, so far I like Midjourney the best.
This is a great, thought-provoking video! Thank you putting this out! I don't see AI as putting me out of work. I was a former illustrator in Manhattan for many years so I do feel that AI will greatly impact that field. It's more cost-effective to have AI do the work than to hire an illustrator given that multiple images can be had quite readily, giving a client much more options..
I have gone from the field of illustration into fine art. People will always want hand-painted art and even though I'm doing art by hand which will take much longer than AI generated art, there is a satisfaction in doing things by hand. This goes for people who don't really have any art skills to speak of but absolutely love paint parties. If someone likes the art enough, they will purchase an image in print form. They are not going to care if it was created by AI or by hand.
It just seems to me that AI is going to make things a lot easier in so many fields and as you mention, with much less 'rigor'. My one real concern is that the brain will be less challenged with technology but I guess that is already happening.
Thanks for this discussion
Your gallerist is spot on with everything she said. No need for painters, sculptors, glass blowers, artists making functional art, etc...to be concerned. Digital/graphic designers, yes...this group could be thinned out.
I have zero concerns about AI...and I know it won't be fabricating and making/packing and shipping (my painted glass chandeliers) anytime soon.
My question is: will this trend discourage digital artists and illustrators from trying?? When I was in college, I was told not to bother becoming a graphic designer because 'computers' would be doing all the work. Nearly 30 years later... Glad I didn't listen to my art professors (who never sold any art anyway...but that's another topic). We have to learn to adapt and work with new technology without fear. Those that have what it takes to make it as professional artists always rise to the top. Those that don't...can always art art for fun.
Thanks for your message! With or without AI, digital artists (the ones typically showing art on ArtStation) have very little chance of making it anyway in the art world, as the art world is extremely close-minded and traditional. I am afraid most digital artists won’t be able to knock the door to the art world open. If they are encouraged to think twice before entering in this hostile place, it’s in a way a positive thing.
It will be quite flattering when AI tries to copy pictures of your art posted online.
@@Sharperthanu1 Haha true! But AI doesn't actively decide which ones to 'copy'. It's the prompts made by humans that drive the generation of the art.
The issue with AI is that in order to create the image it needs to be trained on someone’s existing art. AI mines online work to build the resulting image. That pisses artists off. It does this so well it puts artists out of work. It does this so well non artists can use AI programs to create art from an artist’s work without them knowing. That is the issue. It’s a moral issue. Most of this chat focuses on art and technology which might be a different conversation.
Hi Martin, Before the talk, I discussed with Christine which angel she wanted to talk about. She is alright with touching upon all the aspects except for ethics. It would require us to do more in-depth research. As far as I know, some AI didn't use (or won't be using) copyrighted content. Some old masters' works are not covered by copyright anymore; therefore, they could be used to train. It's tough to generalize at this point as it evolves every week. Maybe in the near future, we will have everything regulated.
Great video, it was a thing I have been thinking about lately! Speaking of changing business models, I feel like NFTs will take a big chunk of the art market in the future as people having "original" digital images in a way people buy prints and be portable too! Imagine being at a cafe or a party and a few people showing off their NFTs that they own!
BUT originals will always have a place among the true collectors!
Totally! Maybe original art can also bundle with a system that gives guarantee of “1/1” or limited editions, like a serial number.
@@VeryPrivateGallery EXACTLY! I figured prints can be limited and numbered... so can NFTs! Most of the NFTs are, IMHO trash and they were in a tulip phase where they were selling for ridiculous amounts, but I figured once they cool down they can actually be used by artist as an option vs prints!
NFTs are nothing but a link to an image. It's probably the stupidest way to spend money on art. You have zero guarantees the link won't brake, besides it's worthless. NFTs are bought only by people who don't know how NFTs work.
@@bluefernlove it is a link but ownership to one and blockchain to make it unique. I see it in a way where art collectors can just have the rights to a digital image vs the physical copy. The tulip phase in demand for them where people spend millions on simple things gave NFTs a bad name... and the crypto crash that took NFTs with it did not give them a trusting reputation, but when the smoke clears they will have a place in the art world!
非常有启发的对话。
谢谢哦
❤😊
Great conversation, Mo. Very interesting!
"Art" was already "over" back in 1979 ("art" being "over" is called "The fall of the modernist paradigm"). It was made official by the work of Sherri Levine and her photographic reappropriations.
Excellent interview. Intriguing - important - information to consider.
Thanks for watching 😊
Before the emergence of AI generators, I struggled with the fact that there were so many artists online producing similar types of work to me; we are all inspired by similar things. So the question has always been, how do you stand out
They're training...but not making MONEY OF IT!! They're not selling their training. Companoes who use AI are MAKING MONEY.
True. That’s the most artists and most companies. I just felt like some artists are using the individual status to accuse companies. But not all individuals are innocent and not all companies are evil.
Not yet, although the first impression gives the impression that now everything is changing. It can create some great pictures, really great - but random. If you want the image to have certain content in a certain way, creating it requires control similar to digital image production. However, it is an excellent tool for that job. AI images are still small, quite small - not compare to real world art.
A visible part of AI art is its ability to combine styles, that's what it seems to be good at. And yes, now everything is changing.
Great conversation!
Thanks!
Wow, very interesting talk. Thank you!!!
Glad you enjoyed it! Our pleasure (more interviews are coming next week)!
AI will do our thinking for us.
Thanks ladies!!! Great as always 😃
Can you make video on NFT? I'm an emerging artist and get a lot of messages on Instagram to buy as NFT... Good to hear your thoughts
Thx
If you get contacted to make NFT art, I suggest please be careful. It could be a scam. I have seen artists being asked 300 dollars per work to sell as NFTs by who-knows-what-they-are-up-to kind of individuals and companies.
Same here, tons of messages on Instagram about nfts and commissions. I'm sure they're all people trying to scam me so I mostly ignore them. It's unfortunate because I naively thought putting my art up on Instagram would foster sincere interest in my work lol
@@wildernessisland2573 they look like scummers I always check their insta account and surprised they have thousands of followers and only few posts 😅 it's obvious they are dodgy... How can I find you on insta?? Interesting what your creating there😃
as long as an AI can't glue s banana to a wall, real artist don't need to worry
Never be the end, it is only open to different media.
I do AI fine art, it takes time and effort to reach handmade look art.
interesting conversation. Thank you
Ai scraping data is not the same artistic process of being inspired by other artists or using references, and if people can’t see that then we’ve really lost the plot.
If my art is stolen from me, I don't care if they stole it using a robot or using a painter. That's the plot from the copyright holder's perspective. A piece is stolen, and damage is done - AI is just a tool some people use to steal the works. After all it's PEOPLE who did the wrong.
The artist influencer who complained about AI scarping data himself had been using copyrighted content without consent. I don't think he is in a great position to complain about it. If there is anyone else who had a CLEAN record that complained, I am all ears.
This is why now,for the most part,we have "reactionary art practices"(rehash).
讚讚讚
Who owns the AI NEURAL WEAPONS being used to 'scrape'the I.P./ original ideas of real victims? (Victims caught in the new cyber prisons.)
pretty much any white collar job performed on the computer is gonna go bye bye. there will always be human artists but they'll have to adapt to the new environment and create more tactile pieces like textured 3d wall installations. it will be awhile before ai robots take over the blue collar jobs so anything that requires a physical body is still in play. ai is already better than any human artist at conjuring up images but i am glad to announce it still has trouble with hands.
It sounds like human bigotry and racism against none humans.
ai generated image you cant flex that no value