Not just prices don’t make sense. It’s condos themselves don’t make sense. 75% of all new condos built in GTA are 1 bedroom or studios, and these are not suitable to house a family. There is no space to live, to store household items and clothes, no parking space, no adequate kitchen… for whole these concrete shoe boxes are? What kind of value we are getting for 8-10 yearly incomes?
@@katethegardener They were built for investors who don't even care about living in the space, and were just looking to flip them for a profit or possibly rent it out for 2500-3500 per month. For a while, this worked, the prices kept increasing so investors were happy to pile in. But the last couple of years investors have been losing hundreds of thousands on precons, so they are pulling way back. Now that these units have to be sold to end-users, they are not moving.
Once interest rates drops to at least 3 percent then the whole game will change to buyers market. Hold on if you can because tide will turn within 1 or years. Condo shortage in the future is imminent, money will have no value but assets will stay strong!
Just a quick fyi people. Agents usually get paid 2.5% of the price for resale. Precon starts at 4%. I have seen agent commissions up to 9% in this market. Buyers if you have ANYONE telling you precon is good you need to run as fast as you can the other way. And agents don't rip your clients off to make higher commission cause fyi when your client does not close you do not get paid anything
Condo fees simply to high and many buildings poorly managed by the BOD with almost zero accountability!! Shameful it’s turning many buyers off, and once the BOD and some bad property management are in play the condo fees are way to high and the condo units become unsellable. They buyers and sellers get screwed by poor decisions and management. This is happening more and more everywhere.
No condo Managers. ACMO desperately trying every way possible to get people interested in entering the industry. Former RCM here. I'm disgusted with what we have overseeing my investment. Easy to remove Directors via Homeowners requisition to remove Directors, then management out w/o notice due to many things! Contact CMRAO or CAO for help complaints & forms.
1980 to 1985 - the market was frozen. No new development for entire period in any scale. Just managing the decline . Remember the losses posted by fiannace corps. Credit union mergers.
They unfortunately can't do that. Their cost is high and on average they pay over 100000 to the city per unit to the city for development charges. The Big winner here is the city who gets more profit than the builder
In some ways detached and freehold prices are more elastic than condos. As people get knocked down from 'better' selling categories, they spill down into condos. Then into the rental market.
The pre-construction prices never made sense to me, even when condo prices were jumping to the skies and the predictions made more sense. I know some people who bought them around 2015 and made good profit. Buyers off the hook in the initial stages because they don't need to have the down-payment fully ready and get their mortgage fixed, so that's where the main appeal comes from. To be honest, with housing shortages and influx of new immigrants will get their PR and apply for mortgages soon, and due to affordability will be choosing condos over free hold, especially if they want to live in the core areas. So only 4% selling is not really significant I think the prices will be untouched by the inventory because many sellers including investors have learnt to stay calm, HOLD and sell when the price is right.
Fun fact - if we took more skilled workers from abroad and they made the fair wage for a trade (which in some cases requires 6 months or 1 year of training) instead of paying them more than doctors make, maybe we wouldn't have that problem. Instead, we are taking millions of Indian students who then take low paying jobs of Canadians who then are absolutely destroyed. At the same time, tradesmen are making ridiculous amount of money here. And don't get me wrong - I understand they deserve decent pay, but I think it's just out of the scale in Canada.
We have "trade" workers come over and unfortunately they can't move latterly, they don't know products, code, etc. It takes a minimum of 7000 hours to become a journeyman for most programs. If we want trade workers, we can recruit from the high schools. It's funny, I know lots of people are salty about trade workers wages being so good, they don't think it's fair that us monkeys who work with tools get the compensation we do. The great part is it will only get better.
@@donm2067I know you guys deserve the money you make but I think the government's plans are to transition the newcomers to do your job at a much reduced rate in order to bring building costs down. God forbid they lower their taxes on construction! Don't forget they did the same thing with the trucking industry.
@@markz1013 You can't just print a journeyman ticket tho, that's what's protecting us. It will be the same as the trucking industry, people will start to die more often lol.
Can you have a low rise house in financial district or entertainment district? If you want prime location with all amenities within easy reach it’s only condo. Even suburbs condo are situated in main roads with accessibility to public transportation. That is why even condo goes up in value because of their location.
Did there used to be less of a premium on the price of precons? Why would they do it? Less of a down payment at the time of purchase and hoping it would appreciate more quickly? It seems like investors bought their brains out in precons because condos were so relatively cheap back in the 2000s and 2010s, right?
@@xyz1663 People being forced back into the office + massive immigration pushing people to city cores will = downtown toronto and vacouver RE to skyrocket, as it did before the plandemic. The timing of this depends on when rates start to lower. Not because it makes things more affordable, but because it pivots buyer sentiment.
Are they waiting for the magical rate drops and the return of everyone buying anything at any price? They would be happy to listen to Tiff open his gob today and say that it's closer to the point of being able to cut rates and once again everyone can afford monthly mortgage rates on an otherwise completely unaffordable home with the idea that rising rates were an abnormal event to never worry about again.
Not just prices don’t make sense. It’s condos themselves don’t make sense. 75% of all new condos built in GTA are 1 bedroom or studios, and these are not suitable to house a family. There is no space to live, to store household items and clothes, no parking space, no adequate kitchen… for whole these concrete shoe boxes are? What kind of value we are getting for 8-10 yearly incomes?
@@katethegardener They were built for investors who don't even care about living in the space, and were just looking to flip them for a profit or possibly rent it out for 2500-3500 per month. For a while, this worked, the prices kept increasing so investors were happy to pile in. But the last couple of years investors have been losing hundreds of thousands on precons, so they are pulling way back. Now that these units have to be sold to end-users, they are not moving.
Once interest rates drops to at least 3 percent then the whole game will change to buyers market. Hold on if you can because tide will turn within 1 or years. Condo shortage in the future is imminent, money will have no value but assets will stay strong!
So much choice in the condo resale market now that there's no point to look at pre-construction, unless you want to lose more money of course.
Then why don’t developers buy all those good deal resale condos and resale them for better prices 🤫
Just a quick fyi people. Agents usually get paid 2.5% of the price for resale. Precon starts at 4%. I have seen agent commissions up to 9% in this market. Buyers if you have ANYONE telling you precon is good you need to run as fast as you can the other way. And agents don't rip your clients off to make higher commission cause fyi when your client does not close you do not get paid anything
Then they sue, Realtors couldn't care less about clients
Who needs agent for precon, just buy it directly.
It is ridiculous to have agent as a buyer especially when buying precon.
Condo fees simply to high and many buildings poorly managed by the BOD with almost zero accountability!! Shameful it’s turning many buyers off, and once the BOD and some bad property management are in play the condo fees are way to high and the condo units become unsellable. They buyers and sellers get screwed by poor decisions and management. This is happening more and more everywhere.
No condo Managers. ACMO desperately trying every way possible to get people interested in entering the industry.
Former RCM here. I'm disgusted with what we have overseeing my investment. Easy to remove Directors via Homeowners requisition to remove Directors, then management out w/o notice due to many things! Contact CMRAO or CAO for help complaints & forms.
In a decade these condos are going be abandoned.
Probably
1980 to 1985 - the market was frozen. No new development for entire period in any scale. Just managing the decline . Remember the losses posted by fiannace corps. Credit union mergers.
If the sales are based on 4% only of the total available on the market, this trend doesn't mean much at all. None are really selling at asking.
Come to Halifax where used condos are sitting at around $440 per square foot in buildings with 100% funded reserve funds!
Yeah but that’s Halifax lol
I dunno, I’m getting close to retirement. More likely to line up at the doctor’s office than at a club. $440 a foot sounds pretty enticing.
Imagine your furniture? What furniture? What you can fit into 450 ft apartment?
You can’t even buy a nice one bedroom for 600k, it’s insane
The builders don't want to get into a price war that will drive prices into the ground
They unfortunately can't do that. Their cost is high and on average they pay over 100000 to the city per unit to the city for development charges. The Big winner here is the city who gets more profit than the builder
I think this down turn is GREAT,just what we needed.More speculators are going to lose their shirts. Let the party begin...
The assisgment game is officially over now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is it legal to offer a buyer’s agent an incentive? Seems conflict-of-interest-y, no?
It is legal and must be disclosed to all parties in the transaction.
Pre-condo is becoming ghost building really fast soon.
then the parking, then the locker ..if even avail its all so wrong and all have the same layout
Condo market is the first to crack. Detached market? Not so much because there are too many rich people out there.
They're not rich, they just have more credit than most.
WRONG. Everything is going.
Already cracked huge drop !
In some ways detached and freehold prices are more elastic than condos. As people get knocked down from 'better' selling categories, they spill down into condos. Then into the rental market.
What has been described is called 'PRICE RIGGING'.
Bingo
The pre-construction prices never made sense to me, even when condo prices were jumping to the skies and the predictions made more sense. I know some people who bought them around 2015 and made good profit. Buyers off the hook in the initial stages because they don't need to have the down-payment fully ready and get their mortgage fixed, so that's where the main appeal comes from.
To be honest, with housing shortages and influx of new immigrants will get their PR and apply for mortgages soon, and due to affordability will be choosing condos over free hold, especially if they want to live in the core areas. So only 4% selling is not really significant I think the prices will be untouched by the inventory because many sellers including investors have learnt to stay calm, HOLD and sell when the price is right.
Fun fact - if we took more skilled workers from abroad and they made the fair wage for a trade (which in some cases requires 6 months or 1 year of training) instead of paying them more than doctors make, maybe we wouldn't have that problem. Instead, we are taking millions of Indian students who then take low paying jobs of Canadians who then are absolutely destroyed. At the same time, tradesmen are making ridiculous amount of money here. And don't get me wrong - I understand they deserve decent pay, but I think it's just out of the scale in Canada.
We have "trade" workers come over and unfortunately they can't move latterly, they don't know products, code, etc.
It takes a minimum of 7000 hours to become a journeyman for most programs.
If we want trade workers, we can recruit from the high schools.
It's funny, I know lots of people are salty about trade workers wages being so good, they don't think it's fair that us monkeys who work with tools get the compensation we do. The great part is it will only get better.
@@donm2067I know you guys deserve the money you make but I think the government's plans are to transition the newcomers to do your job at a much reduced rate in order to bring building costs down. God forbid they lower their taxes on construction! Don't forget they did the same thing with the trucking industry.
@@markz1013 You can't just print a journeyman ticket tho, that's what's protecting us.
It will be the same as the trucking industry, people will start to die more often lol.
Who wants to live in a condo?
Those who have no other choice?
Can you have a low rise house in financial district or entertainment district? If you want prime location with all amenities within easy reach it’s only condo. Even suburbs condo are situated in main roads with accessibility to public transportation. That is why even condo goes up in value because of their location.
yup we need parking and no high fees
Did there used to be less of a premium on the price of precons? Why would they do it? Less of a down payment at the time of purchase and hoping it would appreciate more quickly?
It seems like investors bought their brains out in precons because condos were so relatively cheap back in the 2000s and 2010s, right?
Any pre condo more than $900... not buy it.....and let the builder enjoy.....enjoy mr builder
Toronto condos to the moon.
@@xyz1663 People being forced back into the office + massive immigration pushing people to city cores will = downtown toronto and vacouver RE to skyrocket, as it did before the plandemic. The timing of this depends on when rates start to lower. Not because it makes things more affordable, but because it pivots buyer sentiment.
Do ones without the 1million plus pleaseeee!
prices not coming down 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Cost of construction is extremely expensive. This is the reason pre-con price is so high
also i think government takes around 30 % and land is expensive too.
You forgot about development charges! Destroys viability of projects.
Taxes and land
That’s why these new projects won’t sell. Unless resale prices start to go up sharply
Also, people pay the prices.
Are they waiting for the magical rate drops and the return of everyone buying anything at any price? They would be happy to listen to Tiff open his gob today and say that it's closer to the point of being able to cut rates and once again everyone can afford monthly mortgage rates on an otherwise completely unaffordable home with the idea that rising rates were an abnormal event to never worry about again.