Does BRUVAC make MILL finally work in EDH?
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
- Bruvac the Grandiloquent is a new card from the set JUMP/START. I cannot wait to try this commander out and see how we can make mill work!
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A friend of mine has a deck that's just Bruvac, 39 Islands, And the rest are Persistent Petitioners
Madlad
Doesn’t even sound very bad
Legendary
The biggest problem to a strategy like this is that it's hard countered by cards that search through people's libraries and remove all copies of a card. And if there is someone in ur play group that runs black u can be sure that they will slide one or more of these cards in to deal with that.
I've been sitting here really trying to find a flaw in that design, I can't. Maybe toss in some counters, kefnets monument and medallion + caged sun and exp lens. Cap it all off with intruder alarm and thrumming stone and we're cooking with propane bois!
Great video. Ive been playing sticher Geralf for years and I think you may have overlooked a really strong part of the mill strategy. Control. With cards that put creatures on top of your opponent libraries you dont have to kill them, they just Mill. Been a big part of my strategy for years and has worked really well.
What cards do you recommend to put opponents creatures on top of their libraries?
Keep in mind, grindstone/Tutelage with Painter's Servant also combos with Bruvac to get 4 cards instead of two before it checks if any 2 cards match colors. Painter's Servant isn't necessarily needed if you get lucky with Bruvac on the battlefield.
I agree totally. I am building Yennett mill and while bruvac is great we definitely need more support
You have mill support in spades already. Plenty of tactics support mill: plunder, reanimator...
“Finally”? My Phenax deck has been good for a while XD consuming Aberation, tree of perdition etc
Not to mention the powerhouse, Eater of the Dead
Came here to say the exact same thing.
Seriously. Phenax, Oona. They work really well, and you get access to another color.
Haunt of Hightower is busted in Phenax as well, assuming it sticks for one rotation I'm often untapping with a 20/20 you can turn into a 40/40 on your turn and then swing with or mill more
oh, i found my Phanax buddies over here :D
I’m working on a list that’s more of a graverobber mill strategy with The Scarab God at the helm, a lot of Persistent Petitioners, and a few other good spells in the colors. The idea is I mill everybody and use their best or most valuable creatures against them
Great video. I feel like a commander a lot of people sleep on in terms of mill is Wrexial. The upside of him is that you don't have a single target with milling everyone out. Yes you can win that way, but often you will win by casting things in other player's graveyards or even commander damage. So he makes the games very fun and random,
Man that back ground in the beginning should be art on an enlightened tutor. Great video
Mill is one of my primary wincons in Ally tribal! Halimar Excavator, some good cloning effects (Jwari Shapeshifter, Rite of Replication, Helm of the Host, Blade of Selves), or ETB doublers (Yarok the Desecrated and Panharmonicon) and usually finish with mass flicker or reanimation (Eerie Interlude, Ghostway, Patriarch's Bidding). It doesn't take too much to go from mill2 to mill300 :3
What would be cool is if instead Bruvac said "Whenever an opponent mills one or more cards, each other opponent exiles that many cards from the top of their library". This would help in two ways. First, it would be milling triple instead of double. Second, an eldrazi or gaea's blessing could be exiled this way and prevent the issue of them shuffling graveyards back.
mill already works :D I have a good Phenax deck, i mean it took time to prime it but anyways. Consuming aberration + Phenax = Goodbye library (after you have milled some to make aberration big of course) add thousand year elixir , freed from the real or illusionist bracers and goodbye 2 librarys. Needles to say Bruvac is gonna make mill better.
Many people forget: The very first ever ProTour (NY 1996) was won by a *MILL* deck, piloted by Michael Loconto. Mill historically actually WAS a thing, even in the highest levels of play, once upon a time. :)
Just built a bruvac deck and it's pretty similar but I've also chosen to include some symmetrical draw/group hug, howling mine, Kami of the Creasent Moon etc. Always the risk of backfiring but I've always been a fan of symmetrical draw in casual games ensuring that both yours and your opponants decks are running optimally for a fun game and it synagises with a good few cards here to give you a advantage like Folio and Psychic corrosion.
Loved the video! You got me excited to build mill once again.
I know Combo wasn't the main focus of the deck tech, but I think Undead Alchemist would be a good addition to this list. The interaction with Altar of the Brood (which you are already playing) seems great, and it will exile op creatures in graveyard. I love that It doesn't guarantee you the win, but it can mill for a lot , especially with Bruvac on the battlefield, just by having a permanent enter the battlefield (you could even win at instant speed with a fetchland)
i also use alchemist. even if it does not win you the game it can generate enough blockers to keep you alive for a few more turns that you need to win.
So I played Muldrotha but with a heavy mill theme. The main problem I ran into was that mill effects don't do anything to deal with threats that are already on the table. "Oh sweet, I can mill someone for 10 cards. Buuut there is also a 12/12 Ghalta staring me down...."
My play group is SUPER casual, like to the point where Tribal Dinosaurs are too broken for them.... So you can only imagine how they feel about milling themes. To try and be "nicer" to them, I went with slow, but consistent mills. This way there is no spike plays and they have a steady chance to play still. All this did was gave them more time to make me arch enemy.
My Esper Advisor Deck has been running around and kicking ass for two years, so it does work.
I've been making it work for the last 2 years with my zombie deck. I can mill out a whole pod with various combos. It's all self mill to get the pieces to mill out everyone. I've been able to pull this off by turn 6 consistantly.
Attivian Yo! You gotta share the list!
My favorite mill deck was muldrotha petitioners. Being in green is so good for them, doubling chant, broodblood March, descendants path. Just mill yourself a bit for muldrotha ammo and just go for it.
Thanks for the video! Love it!
It's no Bruvac, but put together a Gyruda deck w/ even cmc clone creatures to try and chain one after another. Its still a work in progress, but have always tried to push mill in Commander, albeit somewhat unsuccessfully.
Mortuary. Play mortuary to legend rule the clone and put it back on top when it dies to hit it again off it's own Gyruda trigger.
Great video, could you do one for the new devil possibly. Def interested in how you would build it.
I also run Extract in my decks namely to rip out that one card that could rehash or reinvent their library.
I'm building Grafdigger's cage. And I also decided to run all the 1 mana cantrips to draw and and scry and that way all the mill enchantments are better. And then running token generators like Shark Typhoon, Metallurgic summonings, Talrand etc. To create a mass token board for chump blocking to hold the fort.
Another thing to note - everything in the deck that draws cards is going to aid your game plan because of the enchantments you run, like wheels, and folio of fancies, and ancestral recall.
DJ: Does Bruvac finally make mill work in EDH? Oona: Am I a joke to you?
Two things:
2:30 Math is a tiny bit off: Commander is 100 cards, yes, but only 99 in the library (98 if someone's using partners), so that's only 237 cards to mill out instead of 240. ... practically insignificant, but my pendantry needs me to point it out.
6:50 & 9:05 Sphinx's Tutelage and Grindstone are worth reading for their oracle text when you have Bruvac out. "If two (ST:nonland) cards that share a color were milled this way, repeat this process." That's *any* *two* cards, regardless of how many were actually milled. Increases the hit chance tremendously.
There's an alternative mill strategy if you use Syr Konrad from Eldrain. The point then becomes to make people kill creatures or mill creatures into the graveyard so that Konrad will chip them to death. I would highly recommend using Peer into the Abyss targeting yourself, then using a Forever young or similar its a wild combo.
Non-combo mill without cards like Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void also face the problems of 1. Totally ignoring the boardstate, so being non-interactive and 2. Helping decks like Meren bigtime and 3. colorless eldrazi that shuffle the entire deck back in.
To people who think bruvac makes mill good: bruvac makes mill strategies better but does not solve the fundamental problem of mill in commander. Cards like archive trap now mill 26 instead of 13, yes, but 11% of your goal as opposed to 5.5% isnt a huge difference. You need some kind of repeatable engine, which already exists. Namely phenax or effects like sphinx's tutelage or psychic corrosion. Also it should be noted that bruvac is mono blue, cutting off arguably the best single use mill spell, mind grind, as well as tons of other great black mill spells.
My personal mill deck is a morophon-led persistent petitioners build that uses cards that care about having lots of the same named creature to get out lots of petitoners quickly, combined with untappers like seedborn muse to create an engine. For example: milling myself with the first few petitions and then using bloodbond march to get out 10+ petitioners all at once
Consuming aberration/Sewer nemesis + Phenax. and mill suddenly works. Freed from the real or some other untapper and u are snipping librarys.
Thing is - slowly milling opponents with enchantments might just make you kind of the arch enemy. I’d want to ramp up, play a bunch of spells, then try and brain freeze out the entire table
Milling anyone for 24+ cards in one turn is gonna net you everyone's Ire.
I had a mill deck in edh ever since I started playing jace tribal
I used to run a reasonably effective Oloro Mill Deck, but it also had a decent amount of white control and some black “good stuff”. To be honest though I’d usually win with an unblockable Serra Avatar before I milled anyone out.
as a customer request I would love to see kamigawa, newcapenna, jumpstart, commander legends, theros beyond death top 50 mono blue cards.
i like altar of the brood with alluren+Cavern Harpy combo in my Yarok, the Desecrated deck
I personally think that Lazav is better, because it is a reanamate opponent deck, so your not depended on milling
In spikier combo metas phenax is absolutely nasty as a mill commander. My brother made a version with several preator's grasp effects along with graveyard hate to strip the decks apart. It has gotten even better with the new narset Walker and ashiok. I would highly recommend giving him a look if your meta is getting degenerate in your opinion.
Self mill with Nexus of Fate has always been good.
At the moment I have an Arjun the shifting flame deck. If I have my commander out together with psyhic erosion I just need to play a few cantrips and everyone is deck out
ever since i pulled this card my 30 persistent petitioners finally got a play
I really wish bruvac was 1BU. It would leave so many more options for good mill and mill/dmg
I don't, especially when you consider the set of his debut.
How does Sphinxs Tutelage work with Bruvac out? Do you just look at the first two or do they all have to match to get the repeat effect?
Sphinx's Tutelage and Grindstone both work with "any two cards milled this way" (updated oracle text). So if you mill 4 because of Bruvac, they'll trigger on any two cards sharing a color.
@@michaelturner2806 Thank you! That's really amazing then you'll likely mill a huge chunk of deck with that.
Thrumming stone and intruder alarm feel nasty!
now you can just play Bruvac and cast Maddening Cacophony for the kicked cost and mill everyone for game
Undead alchemist plus altar of the brood can kill all three players in a turn if they are playing creature heavy decks.
See I played arjun mill with the enchantment and psychosis crawler effects deck was pretty sick
I could see it being a lot better if there were a few cards that let you mill multiple opponents instead of just one. A mill planeswalker with a - that changed mill cards with 'target player' to 'each'. Then a 3-turn enchantment that did the same for 3 turns with a nasty mill of 15 cards or something on the 3rd turn.
Going Into the 99 of my kami crescent moon deck
i have trouble imagining that this list will keep you alive long enough to mill the table. the combos included are quite slow and often are dead cards that neither contribute to your strategy nor keep you alive. i understand that this was not supposed to be combo list but since you mentioned windfall and altar of the brood the following might be acceptable:
- altar of the brood + undead alchemist, people already mentioned alchemist, it is nondeterministic win that benefits from bruvac (and multiple copies of bruvac greately improve the odds) and on its own will provide stream of blockers keeping you alive, there is geralf in the list so
- mind over matter + jace's archivist / temple bell, this will empty your opponents libraries (yours as well but opponents will have less cards in hand), not technically mill but you win by someone drawing from empty library which is the same as with mill, mind over matter on its own will provide devotion for nykthos and can threaten to untap creature to block, archivist and bell will provide additional draws and archivist can disrupt tutors, if you want to add some style you might include thassa's oracle for self-mill wincon (you still win by milling right? ;)) and can help in case someones deck will have shuffle effects like eldrazi
some other thoughts:
- tunnel vision + vendillion clique / hinder / spell crumple, ok this is jank but maybe someone will find a way to fit those in, hinder and crumple are not bad counterspells anyway so using them and fitting in tunnel vision is not that insane
- maze of ith-like effects should help keep you alive
- aetherspouts / aetherize / aether gale / curse of the swine, some more protection to keep you alive until you win, note that curse can be tutored with muddle the mixture / spellseeker and it deals with indestructibility, aetherspouts is most probably terminus because creatures put on top will be milled (synergy with tunnel vision if you use that)
- consecrated sphinx, i see no reason to not include this, more cards is always welcome and with windfall, sanitarium and mikokoro it will do wonderful things (even better if you use archivist / bell)
- whir of invention, depending on your reliance on altar and/or painter can be useful, note that it can search for relic, mesmeric orb etc and even temple bell if you decide to include it
- profane memento, this is an option if you have trouble staying alive in aggro heavy meta
- hedron crab without way to blink lands or fetches seems bad
- coldsteel heart is just bad, sapphire medallion and other (probably colorless due to lack of options but 22 islands should provide enough color) mana rocks should be in before you decide to add coldsteel
Do the unicorn next
Can we talk about Dj’s luscious locks.
I like to use Helm of the Host with this commander
Anyway, Could you do Zurzoth next?
I like to use Helm of the Host with almost every commander, tbh. When do you not want another of your commander, the card your entire deck is built around? God commanders, maybe, but that's it.
You missedva great card: "Maddening Cacophony" Cast it kicked for 6 mana and the libraries are gone. Include cards like "Mystical Tutor", "Solve the Equation" and "Muddle the Mixture" to get your hands on this card real quick.
bruvac and fraying sanity actually is x6 because you also double fraying sanity. thought scour ends up milling for 12 for one drop
Always wanted to play mill in commander. I don't care ir still no completly funcional, it willl really fun more ir You play with 25 Persistent Petitioners un your deck. Tap 4 to mill 24 it's just awesome.
I used Folio on someone right after they played some huge draw spell. It was fun.
We just need cards that mill a portion of an opponents deck instead of counting card amounts, like traumatize or fleet swallower. Or like the return to ravnica mill that was land based cause any deck only has so many lands.
What about Maddening cacophony?? Such sn amazing card
yes!
Would Riddlekeeper be a good inclusion in a mill deck?
If riddlekeeper is the one that mills when attacked I'd definitely say it would be good cuz once u start gutting the table they will definitely try to take u out quickly. By having this it gives them a reason not to and it might just put them in range to be able to mill them out with one of ur spells
People: Mill is a suboptimal tactic and does not work.
People also: I Hate being milled.
Me: I tap Consuming aberration to activate the ability that Phenax gives it to mill you for as much as its thoughness is, can i get a count of cards in your yardS? i have meen milling all of us from turn 2 with mesmeric orb. then i cast freed for the real and pay 1 blue to untap consuming aberration and mill you for an amount equal to the cards that are in all of my opponents graveyards.
i mean people who say that mill does not work are just LAZY and like easy builds.
If you use spark double to copy Bruvac, wouldn't Bruvac then die because of the legendary rule?
Talk to my poor Meren deck that got hit with Leyline of the Void and Helm of Obedience. Hate it :(
Increasing Confusion is my payoff card in my Tasigur ramp deck. Also have Fraying Sanity
How can one deal with the old Eldrazi and the cards of the like that say when this is put into a graveyard shuffle this and your graveyard back into the library?
It's exceedingly difficult. Which is the main reason mill isn't a viable win-con for EDH
Jesters cap
Just exile their graveyard with the trigger on the stack using artifacts like Relic of Progenitus or Tormand's Crypt etc. If you are piloting mill you teally need to be running a decent amount of graveyard hate anyway.
Exile the Grave in response or stifle the trigger
I personnaly think it would be better in the 99 cards of a mill deck.
Graveyard Decks: *heavy breathing*
The answer is no for "Brawl." in arena. I finally met one of these scumbags. Thankfully it was my Dragon deck, and he didn't have an answer to my adorably fearsome Whelp.
In a true Commander Match, where you'll likely have 1v1v1v1. You're gonna get targeted first. They'll blow up your units, and one person with a strong commander will brute force his way to giving you 11 Commander Damage and knock you out of the game, and I doubt anyone would risk letting you get your mills that they'd destroy attacking commander to protect you.
No Helm of the Host?
Why run Hedron Crab when Ruin Crab is much better?
I think this video was made before zendikar rising was introduced
mill already works, phenax can be really powerful
Mill is resource denial unless they have recursion or ways to interact with the graveyard
For those players, depending on how effective they are at recursion, I have yard exile effects.
Mathematically speaking, mill isn't resource denial until it kills you.
Being real here:
Clicking away from the video right now because you said it's not a Petitioner deck. You're wrong. It says Advisor, it's a legendary blue Advisor, and it's a mill commander. I'm taking my Bruvac, his 35 persistent friends, and maybe a Thrumming Stone all the way to a tournament win
Traumatize + Bruvac leaves 1 card in their library FYI since it rounds down.
Thats if they had an odd number of cards in their library to begin with.
*Syr Konrad glares*
Got my Butt kicked a couple of times by a Bruvac deck today...its pretty legit. Also pretty feel bad to play against...
Traumatize won't wipe the entire deck unless they have an even number of cards in their library because it rounds down.
More cards should be «each opponent» instead of just target opponent.
problem I always had with playing mill was not really the mill it self but how to defend your self from everyone else.. sad to say anyone that plays mill you might as well put a flag out and say come one come all because everyone will come for you
Run cards like: Silent Arbiter - only one creature can attack each turn. Propaganda - opponents pay 2 for each creature attacking you. Dissipation Field - return any permanent to their owners hand that deals damage to you
the fact that forced fruition isn't included in this video saddens me.
Please
the key is to mill yourself
Copy enchantment effects.
Where's tinybones? :(
COMPLETELY WRONG....WIZARDS NEED TO STOP MAKING COMMANDER ONLY CARDS....NOT MORE
Disagree technically, though I might agree with the sentiment. I'm okay with cool destined-for-Commander cards being designed, especially if they're flashy but *not* power creep. But I like them best when they're in Commander-specific products. It's neat getting a commander that makes Homarid Tribal work, but it's very disappointing cracking that in a Limited environment and you only get two other Homarids in your pool, making it a dud for the whole day.
I hope we don't get more cards for Mill-Commander. It really don't feel good to be milled in Commander
One ulamog. Done
@@JB-sc3fr In response to your ulamog trigger i activate nihil spellbomb( or some other similar artifact) and exile your graveyard including ulamog, or cast disallow ( or some other stifle like efect) and counter the ulamog trigger. if you play mill these are interesting challenges that you need to deal with.