Kanye is More Relevant Than Shakespeare | Matthew Cook | Part 1 of 8
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2017
- *The speaker in this video is a competitive debater, and therefore the views expressed may not necessarily represent his or her beliefs. *
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The Motion: This House Believes Kanye is More Relevant Than Shakespeare.
Matthew Cook opens the case for the Proposition, as the first speaker of eight in the debate.
Motion Defeated.
ABOUT THE OXFORD UNION SOCIETY: The Oxford Union is the world's most prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. Since 1823, the Union has been promoting debate and discussion not just in Oxford University, but across the globe.
THEY'RE RIGHT
KANYE IS THE GOAT
@@bandeirante8597 Yes, very sure
thats right thats right THE GOAT THE ONE AND ONLY THE GOAT
To those lamenting the decline of culture or puzzling over the debate topic: I'm sure there were people in the 17th century who likewise mourned the end of pure culture when they saw the masses swarming to see Shakespeare's plays. This debate captures nicely the tensions that arise when the "new" (innovation) threatens to displace the "old" (tradition). Your sanctimonious comments about the death of culture have been echoed by equally sanctimonious people in every recorded generation before you.
reverbphantom nope, comparing kanye to shakespheare shows the decline of civilisation. William, marked the epoch of English literature, kanye is a shit rapper. Calling barely intelligible gibberish(rapping) innovation, so as to appear more bohemian and new wave shows the level of ignorance of current postmodernist edge lords.
Your response only makes sense if you first assume that we live in a morass of relativity where no true beauty or skill actually exists.
Fuck da Polish. Aḍolf Lincoln GOP 2020 Kanye West is not known for rapping but his producing, particularly the artistical influence. He came in with chopped up soul sampling in an era where the cool thing was to sag your pants - he was there in a pink polo. He dropped hit after hit whilst not adhering to formulaic pop but revolutionizing standards within music. I don't want to write an essay because I don't think you'll care but he's clearly innovative, your opinion may differ but the influence speaks for itself. 808s is a staple within every hip hop song, no longer adhering to the classical verse hook verse hook, incorporating bridges, completely restructuring a song, Kanye is part of that , listen to 'runaway', straightforward but grand production whilst not sounding like any song, yet incorporating the memorable melodic tones etc etc
Comparing old to new isn't the problem, the problem is that you're comparing popular music to popular theater. There's just no basis for which to draw comparisons. A better debate would be whether Spielberg is more relevant than Shakespeare, or whether Kanye West has had a bigger musical impact than Wagner.
Except that Kanye is objectively speaking an incompetent rapper, lacklustre producer and mostly appeals to adolescents. Compare this to Shakespear, one who reinvented language and appealed to adults.
Oxford want a full-blown lecture from me
And the Lexus pull up, skrrtt like hop, I'd hopped out, wassup
take a shot everytime you see someone looking smug in the background
challenge accepted
This is wavy af
Yep😂
There are many people questioning the relevance of this debate. "Is this how far it has come?" This is either because those commentators find Shakespeare too "holy" or Kanye too alive to be compared with the other. Isn't this the point of the debate? Has this ever been seriously discussed in public before? Putting Shakespeare on an untouchable podium is actually in itself taking away his relevance and actuality, it stresses his glory rather than his work. Will he forever be the most relevant figure in English literature? I think it is irrational to definitely answer that with "yes". In order to test his status you have to let him compete with influential contemporary artists, and I struggle to think of anyone more fitting than Kanye. This is a relatable topic, not one to be put aside as "ridiculous".
Shakespeare is not too holy…. to be compared to an equal - like Rumi, Dickens, Alice Walker, Kafka, Chekhov, Tolstoy Langston Hughes, Salman Rushdie, Chattopadhyay, Arundhati Roy, Benjamin Zephaniah, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Austen, the Brontes, Tennessee Williams, Blake, Byron, the Shelleys, Keats, Wordsworth, Arthur Miller, Oscar Wilde, Christopher Marlowe, Sappho, Euripides, Sophocles, Scheherazade, Baudelaire, Balzac, Burgess, Kesley, Goethe, Tolkien, the Woolfs, Thackeray, Evelyn Waugh, Michael Ondaatje, Graham Greene, Forster, Kipling, John Le Carre, Hans Christian Anderson, Murakami, Alan Bennett, Brother Grim, Toni Morrison, Phillip K Dick, Orson Welles, H G Welles, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, George Bernard Shaw, Cervantes, Bulgakov, Stephen King (ok this might be a stretch but I would put misery and the shinning in with the great novels), Jung and Nietzsche (also ok they are philosophers but top me they are artists as well). Hell even Paulo Cohelo! This debate is embarrassing bro.
love the respect this guy gives to the opposition. He debates very well while still respecting the viewpoint of the otherside. that’s my favorite thing about this debate, each side has valid arguments and respects those who disagree. Love it
I wonder if they had an event like is Shakespeare more relevant than homer
if kanye west dies, he will go down as the most influential human of all time to pop culture
geigster 👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼💯💯💯💯😂😂😂😂😂😂
"if" hahahahahahaha
geigster please...i beg you...stop this nonsens right now and get some help.
Well slavery is a choice apparently and he's become officially nuts.
it will always be michael jackson
This is what Ivy League schools really do.
The wave is strong with that guy 🌊🌊🌊🌊
Ah, yes. The great debate of our day....
Tea & Empire indeed who what of thought
Hahahaha, it saddens me greatly but that comment is gold.
At least Kanye wrote the work he is credited for.
And he gives credit where credit is due. His descriptions on his UA-cam say it all. Every composer or engineer is named
@@TheIronWristFighters unwritten rule in hiphop: CREDIT EVERY SINGLE INFLUENCE, 1-LINER PROVIDER, AND PERSON IN THE STUDIO
As did Shakespeare...
@@fatheranthony4pope false
@@fatheranthony4pope Shakespeare did not.
debater confirmed wavy
look at the girl in the left bottom corner at 6:33 lmao
PREACH MY G
What he says from 7:20 - 7:40 🔥🔥🔥
It's always been like that though, nephew. It's been like that for yeeeears since the 80s but they just dismissed the music as a threat to the status quo.
PS. Mumble rap is not included in this conversation.
I don't see why mumble rap isn't included, from where I'm standing if you can express as much as a mumble rapper can without a single coherent word that's commendable as anything else
Preach my G 😂😂😂
Choose one:
1) Oxford ran out of ideas for debate
2) Oxford is click baiting for views
3) Oxford wants to match Kanye's peddling
4) This debate took place April first
none of above
Shut up? Weren't you the one up for debates no matter how bananas?
Bobzter fuck I can't even decide who roasted who here
Ah yes, Oxford loves click baiting for views. I heard they want to hit 1,000,000 subscribers (and get the Notification bell hit) by the end of year aswell.
Call the ambulance for this boy, he is not well
Kanye is the greatest performance artist of our time.
kanye west is gay
Shakespeare doesn’t even compare
fr
4:30 I must say, a better phrasing would be "he was The Weeknd on a Monday"
Preach my G😂
Imma tell my kids this was Yung Gravy
brilliance my gee !!
Well said broheim
🌊🌊🌊🌊
*God* liked your Video.
These emojis are now more relevant than words...🤣🤣🤣🤣
Love it ! HIP HOP = Intelligent Movement
I mean if you are going to select a 21st century artist to make this argument, Kanye is probably the best one to go with. David Bowie or Miles Davis would have been my pick for the 20th century.
Yes!!!! ❤❤❤❤
if you look closely around 4:19, you can see Justin from HipHopDX in his head disagreeing with what the kid is saying
Nick Puente probably because he said that kanye was the first person to use soul samples lmao
Ye the goat
PREACH MY G!!!!!!!! 🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫
Guys, I think you sort of missed the sarcasm in these debates. I don't think anyone in these debates strictly think Kanye West is really more influential or relevant that Shakespeare. READ THE DESCRIPTION OF THE VIDEO. These are professional debates, they aren't to be taken completely seriously since the viewpoints of the debates don't directly reflect the views and beliefs of those in the video. It's like how in a court of law a defending lawyer might know he is defending a man that is certainly guilty of the crime, but he defends him anyway because it's his job. Jump down off your high horses and actually engage in the debate instead of just hating on Kanye for the sake of it, as these debates are more so for the sake of being engaging and fun rather than deadly serious.
How, by the broadest stretch of the imagination, is Shakespeare more relevant than Kanye West in the 21st century? You must be living with your head in the sand.
Lucien Hughes I never said that Kanye was more relevant. To be honest the debate is more about fun in the debate. if you watched the debates you might have a had a couple of answers to your question. For example in one video someone was arguing that Kanye has been very relevant as a voice of modern youth culture. Even if that culture is vacuous and we might not want to admit that Kanye and his music is more relevant than Shakespeare, it could still be said that that is the case. That, at least for me, was the most compelling argument in favor of the motion. However, if you really need it clarifying again that this is a bit of fun on the part of the Oxford union and should only be taken half seriously, then just look at big narstie's part in the debate. It's a bit of fun at the expense modern culture and Kanye, and I think there are actually some interesting points made more about the role of writers in modern times. You should try listening to the debate fully, maybe you can even learn a little from it and engage in the debate since most of the time they aren't even suggesting Kanye is more relevant, even if that's their overall argument.
No, but how is Shakespeare more relevant nowadays?
Dalton Xxyzzy well again this is covered in the debates, but Shakespeare has his roots throughout the English language, and as a result of the fact that English is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world, he is an incredibly influential figure for anyone who speaks English because he created so many phrases and words. However most of the debate is whether being relevant is the same as being influential
Relevancy is not even close to the same as influence. Shakespeare is very influential, but not close to relevant anymore.
i bet ya kanye has watched this too. u da best ye
Lol people out in the comments getting salty over someone clearly smarter than them explaining why ye is the goat. just accept the wave and move on at this point fam
So many with chips. Matt Wood is beautiful.
This guy is so nervous. he is shaking his paper like a hurricane.
Christina Gina debate at Oxford tho
Let's see you do better lol
Can't tell in his voice though, proper job.
This kid is great! That secretary chap is bloody handsome too
Hear hear, yo
Let him cook
We need Akala to weigh in on this one
Ah yes, the negotiator
who won the debate?
Well, at least they didn't make Kanye vs Bach.
Kanye challenged materialism
With hundred dollar plain white tees
But honesty they're not on the same map
Kanye collaborates to write his music and lyrics, he's more a producer than anything
Kanye the brand and Kanye the man are not actually the same
Shakespeare as far as we know without the odd conspiracy-Essie comment, was the writer
What is the problem with the girl in the back
Of course Kanye is more relevant but Shakespeare has more lasting relevance. Someone currently living is almost always more relevant than a someone dead for hundreds of years. Sometimes religious figures fill that roll but it's usually celebrities.
Who's Kanye West?
These kids are very smart. I wonder if Kanye watched this 😂
The bard himself is Homer
Emmm...the first boy seems kinda nervous right?
Considérer Kanye West comme juste un rappeur dans ce débat est inutile.. Il est aussi loin d'etre le rappeur le plus important de l'histoire. Mais aujourd'hui, en 2017, il est definetely more relevant than shakespeare. Who know about Shakespeare today unless in the english-speaking sphere ? Almost no one. Kanye West aujourd'hui représente beaucoup pour le monde de l'art et est un exemple pour beaucoup de célébrités. Life of Pablo is not just an album. People commonly do this error. Life of Pablo was released alongside with a fashion line he made. Any art director or designer who works with him is amazed, even cinematographers and that. Kanye West aujourd'hui n'est pas un simple rappeur. Mais c'est le Shakespeare des temps modernes et même Kanye se compare à lui, sans dire qu'il est vraiment une inspiration pour lui.
bro why are you speaking French and english? Decide.
Shakespeare will be forgotten in the future. No sheakspear
do they still say that about kanye? i'd go one better. i'd say he's more relevant than homer! or hiram abiff even!
ah, competitive debate, always giving way more attention to some ideas than they deserve in the name of developing rhetorical skill. for the record, i have a ton of respect for kanye as an artist...
It's funny when you get extra money
Every joke you tell just be extra funny
I mean you can even dress extra bummy
Cocaine bathroom break, nose extra runny
And I gave you all I got, you still want extra from me
Oxford want a full blown lecture from me
kanye and shakespeare a lot alike cause they both had help writing their stuff
wow so deep
lmao i didnt mean it like that im a kanye stan i just think its funny theres a legitimate claim shakespeare could have had 4 other people write his plays
yeah fair
whos the asian guy sitting on the throne ?
This Generations closest thing to Weinstein? Err
As if Kanye's ego needs a further boost 😂😂😂. Not sure his influence on rap is unparalleled though.
It is. He shaped modern rap.
yeezus is more relevant than jesus.
*DON'T CHANGE MY MIND. I AM NOT CROWDER*
Who here after Kanye announced he’s running for president
not me
You should go to jail to even put a hollywood superstar in the same sentence with Shakespeare.
Hahaha 😂
YB Better
This whole debate is irrelevant
I for one actually like that they've chosen an inherently irreverent subject. It's debate for its own sake, so the subject doesn't really matter anyways.
"popularizing soul samples before anyone had really considered them" This is how a cult follower thinks. This clown thinks hip hop started when Kanye started using samples. Unbelievable
我真的是来练听力的吗🙂
I can appreciate this debate for being both funny and entertaining, but please no one tell me the pro-Kanye side is actually serious XD
but who's more anti-semitic?
don’t matter
I don't think the people in favor really understand how Shakespeare has influenced the way we speak today, and how we continue to model modern literature off of his works as well as provide lessons from them. I had never even heard of Kanye West until he had married a Kardashian, which is a sad enough fact on its own.
You probably wouldn't have heard of Shakespeare at the time either...
Read the description, these people are debating for the sake of debating and honing their ability. I doubt any of them really think Kanye is more influential than Shakespeare when most of them are university students, who more than likely study/studied Shakespeare in great depth. They're doing this deliberately to create an interesting debate, so don't just dismiss their argument. You should consider if there's any worth to the argument in any capacity, meaning whether Kanye's work (which should be distinguished from Kanye himself) is comparable in worth to any of Shakespeare's in terms of impact and relevance. No, Kanye's music and so on might not be more relevant than Shakespeare, but maybe it has had some impact and positive outcomes on recent modern culture as did Shakespeare.
Morris Laurent this argument isnt about whos more influential, its about whos more relevant.
Most people only know about Shakespeare because they have to read it in school. More people today will willingly listen to Kanye than will willingly read Shakespeare.
Send this to Kanye please.
Wait, what is happening, why is there a whole speech about this topic. It's beautiful
I still miss the old kanye
These are the future elites of society?
Those shakey hands
The Debate Topic in itself is so irrelevant. Kanye West is a good artist. His music is okay and then, suddenly he is compared to Shakespeare! And this becomes a topic of debate at one of the most 'respectful' debating societies.
Like why?
Because once West proclaimed to be the 'New Shakespeare'?
It is so stupid honestly.
The songs of West, his lyrics are good. But many, many are really not that good or 'relevant'.
Most of Shakespeare's works on the other hand still reflects our society today and are still 'relevant'.
It makes me sad that nowadays 'arts and culture' is mixed up with 'popularity and mainstream success'. That 'how many so-so awards' you have equals to 'how *relevant*' you are. If Kanye West is supposed to represent 'modern music' then that is kind of absurd. I would say Beyoncé is more relevant than him. But then again *that* is debatable. Not West and Shakespeare. Now this *Oxford debate* will just blow up the credibility of West as an artist to unknown, undeserved proportion. Seriously, I think tge next topic will be:
"Kim K's butt is more significant than Mona Lisa's smile."
^sighhhh^
kanye is praised as a literal genius by tons of musicians i think you just soundin like a hater lmao
pree how much he is shaking
Template for succeeding in Hollywood:
1. Steal other people’s work such as movies or music and put it together and market it as your own.
2. Tell people that it’s yours and they’ll believe it. Tap into their mind by talking about confidence, self acceptance of their looks etc. using words of old philosophers and/or writers and re-framing them into your own, in a country full of financially enslaved people looking for inspiration.
3. Have a fake personality = diva / crazy etc. so people actually believe you’re different and a genius etc. but you’re not. Keep this up when the cameras are around you.
4. Set up a TV show or any media platform, make everything fake and sell your fake personality, strategically planned with events e.g. birth, work releases etc. Any kind of scandal helps!
5. Pay paparazzi to take pictures of you and put you on the news papers. This causes a psychological effect of importance in humans. Make sure you’re seen pictured with so called “important people” too.
6. Make sure your social media followers are really high, so pay bots (50% + need to be fake), with the comments being limited so it’s seems people care about your profile (another psychological effect on humans), as well as fake likes, and slightly photoshopped pictures to achieve unattainable goals.
7. Make money by selling a product or service (it doesn’t have to work, based on point 6.) and become a billionaire with it in assets, even though it might not be liquid and you only have royalties etc. people will believe it anyway because it’s all psychological. Make sure you say ‘it’s sold out’ so it looks like people are buying it.
8. Go on the media again, and talk about how successful you’ve been etc. and inspire younger uninformed generations with quotes that have been used for decades. Make sure you’re posted on news registers for rich people. Most of the world’s richest decline to be on them.
That's it.
They've officially run out of topics to debate upon.
batman
Seriously. What a joke.
This is one of those instances where we confer much undue intelligence to the British for only their accent. This is embarrassing if it's not only tongue in cheek.... and Kanye paid to blowup his ego a bit more across the pond.
The fact that you feel the need to debate this is sad.
yeah kanye is obviously way more important
Shakespeare is dead and Kanye has lost his marables
I don't think Shakespeare or Kanye are the most relevant. Giggs is undoubtedly the most influential artist of all time! He be bringin that dirty dirty!
Kanye is only big because you guys treat him like a god and feed his ego.
🤔
Izy Pazizy listen to his albums. I dare you, and once you do you'll realize how much of a dumbass you are
Izy Pazizy yes, much like most English majors do with Shakespeare.
Is this even a question? Just listen to his song amazing, he is clearly amazing.
Stronger, black skinnhead, blood on the leaves, gold digger, heartless ect. He is a sensasion.
Kendrick vs Shakespeare is a more interesting debate imo
There are literally dozens of artists in recent decades that did what Kanye can purport to have done - and better (clue: my profile picture). How can anyone seriously compare him to Shakespeare, a man whose legacy lives on in the very language that we speak, who had a monumental and lasting effect on our culture and collective national consciousness. Who do you think people will be talking about in 500 years - Kanye or Shakespeare?
Who exactly? I'd be interested to find out what 21st century artist you think is more relevant and influential than Kanye.
I said recent decades - not just the 21st century. Let me rephrase that by saying within the last 50 years, for example.
The question is who is more relevant today. Not who will be more influential in 500 years.
See, to me that is a distinction without a difference. If you ask yourself: what is more relevant than Shakespeare today - then the answer is literally anything you want. I don't know if you've noticed but there aren't many kids walking around listening to Shakespeare on their iphones today. Kanye West is more relevant to them. Football is more relevant to them. Some popular TV serial is more relevant to them. The question surely should be who has more effectively shaped our understanding/appreciation of the human experience, and in doing so has irrevocably influenced and changed all art and literature that came after them, and I don't see how that can be restricted to any one point in time.
I suppose the question is deliberately contrived so as to make it feasible for both arguments to be valid, given that this is a debating exercise. Other than for sharpening ones debating skills it really is a pointless waste of time.
My cringe pipes are bursting inside my guts
Oh god these are suppose to be some of the best minds out there
"*The speaker in this video is a competitive debater, and therefore the views expressed may not necessarily represent his or her beliefs. *".
The point of these debates is to train the debater and the listener to be more aware of the different sides of a debate. So arguing over something like this does help, regardless of how trivial it is.
Waheed joe Khan You may not agree with his argument. But he did a great job of portraying it.
Merely putting Kanye in the same sentence as Shakespeare is the death knell of the West.
DK Youngson go listen to his album you can hate the man but dont hate the music
Most people like using this argument like if it meant anything; "hate the guy but not his music".
I listened to his albums. What now?
zrapboy7 now you have an opinion thats actually has base.