Great summary! One of the unsung advantages, for those who can merge images at high power, is viewing the planets. Being able to look with both eyes largely cancels out those annoying dark floaters that drop in front of the planet, obscuring details just when the seeing snaps in. It makes for a much more comfortable and natural viewing experience.
Thanks Ed - really helpful video. I appreciate that you discussed both the hassles and benefits of binoviewing. I didn't know about the image merging issues with different people. I was pretty good at seeing the 3D images in the Magic Eye books which took some work, but binoviewing merging is probably different. I recently got a Denkmeier B27 SuperSystem and am still learning how to get it all dialed in. The B27 system allows me to use the binoviewers on all three of my scopes, my 12" Orion dob, my 8" Celestron Evolution, and my (new!) Lunt LS80MT. Russ at Denkmeier has been super helpful and offers quick answers to my questions. I'm using his LOA 21mm eyepiece set which work quite well. Looking forward to your other videos.
I'm playing with his new Binotron system with the 3D eyepieces. Fascinating. The review is taking way longer than usual because I have to make sure I understand everything.
Nice overview Ed, I am a big fan of BVs too. The key thing about BVs which should be mentioned is they allow you to view in comfort for so much longer than cyclops viewing. I can effortlessly tease out detail on the planets for 20-30 minutes non-stop, allowing so much more to be seen. I could never do that with one eye!
I have used binoviewers exclusively for more than 20 years. This was a well-done, reasonably accurate assessment of the issues involved in binoviewing. I have not had problems merging images at any magnification, even 400X on those rare nights of superb seeing. As with all other things in astronomy, get the best quality you can afford.
I have recently purchased the Williams Optics Binoviewer kit for my Celestron C130 Newtonian telescope. The recommendation by the seller (Agena Astro) was that due to focus length there may be problems. The seller was correct that without a barlow or the included 1.5X Barlow there is not enough focus length. But, with a 2X Barlow it does work fine. It gives about a 65X magnification with the provided 20mm eyepieces. I haven't tried any other eyepieces but am hopeful it will work with 32mm eyepieces. You are correct in your video that it is like a completely new experience viewing the sky with two eyes vs. one. I have only just started with viewing the moon in first quarter. Doing a little more research I think the Orion binoviewer may have been a better choice for a reflector but pricewise, the Williams Optics definitely is a great starter package. Thanks for the video.
My binoviewer experience...meade 14'' sct, Televue bino , 2 Televue 19mm Panoptics, sitting comfortably , The view was so spectacular that it actually triggered my fear of hight , as if I was leaning out of a helicopter above a cratered sand pit. This would happen often. I would actually find myself instinctively moving my feet apart and reaching out with my hands to grab on to something. I loved having friends sit in the chair , hand them the hand controller , set the binoviewer for them , I'd watch them take a ride around the moons surface, I use a Losmandy Titan 50 mount , Id show them ..just use these 4 direction buttons and enjoy. It spoils it for people who have never used a binoviewer , They could never be satisfied again with just mono one eyed viewing LOL!
Ed only mentioned this in passing, but interpupilary distance is a big factor when choosing eyepieces for a binoviewer. People with narrower IPDs (say, 65mm and narrower) might struggle with many of the fatter eyepieces out there. My IPD is 63mm and I cannot binoview even with Tele Vue DeLites. I have to "de-cloak" them to make them narrow enough to look through them. I'd also like to reinforce Ed's point about the view being dimmer. I find that binoviewing is net worse for viewing deep sky objects. I've tried with my binoviewer for *years* to get a view of a deep sky object that looks better than monoviewing, and it just doesn't happen for me. I also don't get the 3D effect that a lot of people claim. It's still a flat view to me, just dimmer. But for planets, dimming the view actually seems to help with their brightness and having signal from both eyes really makes contrast pop. You can actually see as much or more detail at lower magnifications binoviewing than you can at higher magnifications monoviewing. This has advantages when the atmosphere is not very steady. Regarding merging, a big problem with merging comes down to the binoviewer itself. Binoviewers need to be collimated, and the more off the collimation is, the harder it is to merge. This is a big reason why people struggle to merge at higher magnification. Moreover, cheaper binoviewers often just have a single thumb screw to lock the eyepiece in place. This causes the eyepieces to tilt and misalign, which can completely prevent an observer from merging the view. You should only get a binoviewer with self-centering eyepiece collets to save yourself some frustration.
I’m one of those binoviewer fanatics. Nice overview, but one big error. Increasing magnification does not make it harder to merge images, rather shorter focal length eyepieces is the problem (usually starting at less than about 10mm). So opposite of what was stated, barlows actually help to merge images and get higher powers. You might never be able to merge 9mm eyepieces, but 18mm with a 2x barlow is very easy to merge (and no more difficult than 18mm eyepieces without a barlow). This is the best way to get high powers with binoviewers. I’ve also used almost all binoviewer models over 20 years of binoviewing, the Denkmeier Binotron is actually the easiest to use and that requires the least tinkering. They will work with all telescopes with the included powerswitch OCS. The Baader units are much more difficult to setup for different scopes using their glass path correctors, particularly reflectors.
The WO binoviewer is great for planets and the moon. I have no problem merging the image at any high magnification. The FOV is only a problem if you do deepsky.
I got one of those generic ones second hand with two eyepieces in a set for a bargain. I don't think I remember when I first saw the moon through a scope, but I will never ever forget the first time I saw it through that bino. I did it five nights in a row. Each night discovering something new as the terminator moved. It's amazing. If something would happen to it, I'd definitely get a new one even for the full price.
Well Ed, after watching this video and then trying a friend's Baader Binoviewer in a 14" Dob, I took the plunge! I purchased a Denkmeier Binotron 27 w/ the 45 OCS, Powerswitch, and collimation tool. It'll be used in my 16" Teeter f/4.5. Plan to use with two 24mm Panoptics. I'm taking it to a big start party in Florida next month. Can't wait.
@edting unfortunately I skipped the star party last week due to a flight and cloudy skies :( I've managed to get some use with the Binotron in my 8se, but achieving focus has been challenging. I can use 2/3 of the powerswitch magnifications and 24mm Panoptics.
Hi Ed.... one more consideration.. eyepieces some times shows eccentricity... and most IMPORTANT.. binocular vision shows more detail and color saturation... Luis Gtz....Ophthalmologist. CS
I sold all my top planetary eyepieces such as ZAO II, TMB Supermonocentrik, Pentax XO and XW and moved to Baader Mark V binoviewer system with GPCs. Never looked back
Another interesting and informative video Mr Ting-thank you. I use a generic pair of binoviewers in my Meade 7” Mak and 120mm Chinese ‘apo’ refractor. The Meade for Lunar and Planetary and the refractor for Lunar/Planetary and wide field views. I find that I can pick out Planetary detail easier when using binoviewers and the views of the moon in my 7” Mak are truly immersive. The main drawback for me (apart from the cost) was not being able to bring my refractor into focus unless I inserted a Barlow lens into the scope. I was after low powered, wide field views. In the end I decided to cut down the OTA and now I can use the scope at low powers. Not for the faint hearted I know, but for me, a worthwhile project. BTW, if anyone reading this is into low powered wide field views of the night sky, a large pair of binoculars on a steady mount might be an alternative. These are also great for daytime viewing as well. Regardless of your chosen instrument, clear skies.
I am a relative beginner in observing but I do love my binoviewers. As you mentioned, they're great for planetary and lunar observing, which in my bortle 8 zone is 90% of what I do. You didn't mention a great option for a reflector that can use binoviewers, which is the Skywatcher Flextube series (I have the 300p, which has 305 mm or 12 inches of aperture). It has 2 "locking" positions where the tube can slide to: a closer one for binoviewing and a further one for mono viewing or binoviewing with a barlow lens. With the Flextube you can use a binoviewer without a corrector in the bottom position for the widest possible views and I use an eyepiece pairing that you didn't mention: Explore Scientific 68 degree 24 mm. Whilst good, I hear they are not quite as good as the Televues, but I paid $100 for each of them, which I think is about 1/3 of the price of the TV. If you get the chance, try it, I think it's a great experience!
Thank you for sharing, I have the same telescope (the synscan 300p, love this thing) but i've yet to try any binowiewer through it. Which binoviewer did you try with it?
@@ziggyfrnds I've got a converted Mitotoyo microscope binoviewer. I haven't measured the light loss mentioned in the video, but it is perceptably there. I heard the Baader Maxbright (mentioned in a caption that Ed wants to try) is the way to go.
I used to have the Williams optics binoviewer Ed mentioned, I used it with a 10 inch solid tube dob but it was only useful on planets since I had to use a 2x Barlow to reach focus.......on the moon I almost always saw 2 images :-( Now I have the flextube dob I'm tempted to try the baader binoviewer......let's see if I can find one on the used market
Good overview! I have never owned or used binoviewers, but from what I understand about the optical system, binoviewers will _always_ be dimmer than a single view due to the splitting effect, regardless of exit pupil. In astronomical viewing where you're trying to absolutely maximize the amount of light entering your eyes, this is a big constraint; it means that even if you optimize your eyepiece and telescope combination to get a 7mm exit pupil (or whatever your own eyes can accept) you would likely have been able to pick out more detail even with a smaller telescope because it can still present a 7mm exit pupil, just with more photons coming through the eyepiece. The binoviewer might give you two 7mm exit pupils, but each exit pupil is less than half as bright as the unmodified image and there's no tricks you can use to fix that. Of course, the obvious solution is to rig up *two* telescopes (one for each eye) in which case you can achieve a full-sized full-brightness exit pupil in both eyes, which should allow you to see more detail than any single-telescope setup regardless of size or optical configuration. The funding, geometry, and optics to make such a system work are left as an exercise for the reader...
One thing I have noticed while viewing planets is that they appear larger when I view them through a binoviewer. Of course, it's just an optical illusion but, when it comes to astronomy, what you see is what you get. :D I have a simple Lacerta binoviewer, which belongs to the generic Chinese binoviewer category that Ed mentioned in his video, but the price-performance ratio is very good (I got a new one for 200 Euros last year).
Hi Ed, I use a linear binoviewers. A weakness if I compare to Dank or Astro Physics is the field stop. But if these allow to use eyepieces with a longer focal length for same field of view, you also need to add a corrector (barlow). In the end there are no advantages. Linear bino has no back focus and I can move it from my refractor to my dob without any problem. These reasons guided my choice. I use them mainly on luminous objects, moon and planetary. Their use eliminate eye strain and fatigue and it’s much more comfortable. They didn’t replace my eyepieces kit but this is another way to observe.
Got my first BV about 12 years ago. Toatal game changer! Everything looks better. Totally agree, the Moon is mesmerizing in BV's. Finally got a Baader Max Bright with the short diagonal. Can use in my W.O. Zenithstar 110 APO straight w/o an OCA! Have 24mm Panoptics which yields roughly 32x for nice wide, lp viewing. But, the BVs came with 1.25, 1.7 & 2.3 OCA lenses that insert into the diagonal for different magnifications if desired. Occaisionsl merging issues at higher mags for planetary viewing with TV 8mm Plossls, but can usually get dialed in. Another issue with BVs to overcome is balancing the scope on the mount. The BVs + EPs add weight that is 90 degrees from the scope axis and COG. I use an offset, adjustable, counterweight on the dovetail bracket of the OTA to rebalance as needed for different EPs and focuser travel.
Great subject, thanks! I have an old Celestron branded Baader Planetarium model, made in Wetzlar, West-Germany that I bought at a Celestron factory sale back around 1991-ish (where I worked at the time). I stack it with a Televue 1.8x or 3.0x Barlow. The main drawback (besides needing two eyepieces of course) is that when you adjust the interpupilary distance it changes focus. I tend to have many first timers when I roll the scope out, so it can be challenging. I don't think I'd let it go for any amount. I use it with a pair of Celestron silver barrel 26mm Plossl or a pair of Celestron black barrel 30mm Ultima Series. Combined with the small amount of magnification inherent in the bino-viewer that gives me about 213x, 245x, 354x or 409x. My preference is the 1.8x barlow and the 26mm Plossl at 245x if the seeing can stand it. I have also on occasion used a pale red or blue filter in one or the other eye for planetary viewing to enhance cloud cover on Mars for instance. There are many options doing that, which adds interest after you've seen something for the thousandth time. :) Enjoying your channel. Thanks for the time and trouble it takes to put together these videos.
Ed focused on some pretty pricey binos and eps. My budget only allowed me to buy the Celestron bino and a couple of Meade 20mm plossls. The views of the moon through my 8SE are wonderful. Looking forward to trying it out on Jupiter and Saturn. Can’t really comment on dso yet until I can get to a dark site. The Celestron unit is affordable and works well enough to give you a taste. If you like the bino views you can sell it and step up to higher end stuff. If not, just sell it. They go pretty quickly on Cloudy Nights.
I have a Denkmeier deep sky that I bought on cloudy nights a decade or so ago. I like them for my maks and sct's and occasionally for my Dobs. The biggest problem I find with the 10" f6 Dob is that when you are checking collimation using them, you most definitely see that nose-piece of the ocs sticking in to your field of view in for and aft out defocused views (it is a solid tube Dob so I can't adjust the tube length). This makes any collimation adjustment with them iffy. And, they come uncomfortably close to the secondary mirror... One this is worked through they are a hoot to use even with my cheapie plossl eyepiece sets at 40mm, 32mm, and even the 26mm. 3d illusion in spades on the Orion nebula! The moon is just incredible! Everyone should try them at least once! If you're able to use binoculars, binocular should come easy! Another benefit for me is... using 2 eyes instead of one helps me overcome the clouds, gobs and floaters that I have in both eyes... 👍👍
Hi Ed, I Have the williams Optic BV and I consider them great for a low price option.The eyepieces i use are Vixen NLP’s 25mm and they are pretty good. As mentioned above BV’s are great for planets.and to b e honest I couldn’t agree more . I have televue eyepieces and they do not match looking through BV’s even the inexpensive ones such as william optics.
I wished for a video like this a long time ago (long time in youtube time i.e. 12 months :D ) then I read your excellent articles and armed with knowledge into what I was getting into, experienced the whole binoviewer experience myself. But this video really hits the spot......you've nicely summarized the problems and advantages! Thank you Mr Ting! this really hit the spot :)
Watching right through a second time: thanks a million. This is great. I’ve come to realize that there aren’t many (if any) “plug and play” bino viewers on the market now that the Tele Vue item has been discontinued. Thanks for emphasizing the personal variability of being able to merge the view in each eyepiece. I’ll have to try some else’s before buying. Your presentation (production values) are superb.
For a few grand, i would probably get a nice pair of large aperture binoculars, like oberwork or something. You can change eyepieces, and you get true aperture size vs binoviewer, as well as two different views through the wobbling atmosphere, giving you an even better view. One eye distorted and the other eye might not be. Even more 3d effect as the two images are slightly different.
Have a Burgess BV'r with Burgess WA 20, 12, 8mm EPs (they have 65° FOV) on a TMB 152. The TMB allows one to use without a barlow (OCA). I am able to marry the images even at higher magnifications. Superb for viewing all the planets and the moon. As you stated, it is breathtaking to view the moon with it. What I find interesting is that objects don't appear dimmer, probably because of seeing them with both eyes. Comparing views of the planets with the BV'r and with a UO Ortho EP, I find I can see more detail with the BV'r. It is certainly more comfortable viewing with it, ie less eye fatigue.
Pretty interesting information. I always learn something new here. I tried to build a cheap bino telescope by mounting two Celestron 80 mm telescopes side by side on metal plates with slots for alignment , a pretty simple experiment. But my problem is the center to center distance is to wide for my eyes and I thought that maybe it would work with two right angles turned towards the center to get the lens in line with the eyes , but the light is coming in at angle to the eyes rather than straight and would not come in to dual view . Also it is to heavy for the light EQ mount to handle , and if one wants to use the EQ ability the mount needs to have one more function added to it to keep the telescopes level as it tracks the sky . Not that this can not be built with smaller mm telescopes to get the center to center distance to match the persons eye PD and a lot heavier mount for the load. I have found that this dual telescope is nice for putting a low power lens in one and a higher power lens in the other one and just moving my eye from one scope to the other to change power or putting a camera in the one and view / search in the other side , it is working fare , but still aligning the pair to get them on point yet , that has been very difficult to do that . My eyes are not so good at my age and hopping to get the hole camera thing to work to get a better high power veiw .
Yes, you'd actually be better off just using a binoviewer. Building a bino-telescope is quite difficult. If the scopes are out of collimation, or aren't aimed precisely, you will get seasick. If the objectives have different focal lengths (common in inexpensive Chinese optics) you will get seasick. If you can't figure out a way to accommodate different interpupillary distances, you will get seasick. So as strange as it sounds, using a binoviewer is actually the *less* complex option.
Thank you Ed. I bought a pair of BVs from Williams Scientific several months ago and was underwhelmed, but when i tried to return them i was told that it would cost me 80 to return them and there would be a restock fee so i would be out over 100. I kept them. I might try them again to look at the moon, it will be tough for them to beat my celestron binoculars but worth a try.
I have just bought myself a new Baader Maxbright II binoviewer. I'm looking forward to astro darkness returning to give them a try. I have found binoviewers to be outstanding for lunar observing providing a 3D like image. Oh and on solar.
Hey, Ed! Great overview on one of my favorite accessories. When I bought my William Optics Zenithstar 61 refractor, I also purchased their binoviewer and a Baader prism diagonal to use for lunar observing. It works well enough for that but not at all well for planets though you can see them a little.
My wife can’t even merge what she sees in binoculars - so the binoviewer is wasted. I love it though, especially on the moon. I just use the Cheap Celestron bino with those 25mm Celestron eyepieces. Does great on a C8. My daughters are 6 and 8- they’re not very clear on closing one eye when observing yet, so the binos solve that issue too 😊
I'm hearing from a lot of people (privately) who say they can't merge images in anything. It's almost like they're embarrassed. There is nothing to be embarrassed about, it's the way you're built.
Another great review! Once you go bino it’s hard to go back to mono viewing. I’ve been dealing with Russ at Denkmeier for over 10 years. His products are first rate and so is his customer support. He is a true gentleman.
An interesting view for the binoviewer. Was “meh” on it before, and moreso now in learning about its light reduction. But the idea of seeing something a little more in 3D does sound intriguing
For what it's worth, I don't experience any 3D effect when binoviewing. The view is simply more comfortable, and for planets, the contrast is substantially better. Jupiter's cloud bands really stand, and so do Mars's albedo features.
You are point on, I will never forget my first view at the moon with my 8" refractor and a paar of 9mm Meade 5000 Plössl´s... a friend of mine had lent me his Baader Mark IV for this evening.
I just received my modified Carl Zeiss binoviewer from a Romanian Astromart seller. It’s supposed to be awesome because Barlow-like lenses are not needed. I won’t be able to test them until October or November. Summers are so hot here in Florida that it’s my off-season for observing. I do all my observing between November and mid-May.
Ed, as always, I enjoyed this video. Just scratching the surface (perhaps a poor phrase in optics) and tweaky? You bet! To those ends, if I may suggest, how about reviewing specific samples more in depth, just like you do with individual telescopes? One that leaps to mind, for example, is the Denk Binotron Super System. This system is adaptable to all telescopes with a two inch eyepiece format. The handy power slide switch system allows three different magnification levels from a single eyepiece pair. And for you and some others who have trouble merging images at higher magnifications, the ability to adjust the viewer's collimation on the fly, might be a big deal, extending the usefulness of the viewer on the moon, planets and double stars.
Hi Ed, thank you for a very good review of the binoviewers in general. Adding up my knowledge and the impressions from your review, I am leaning towards getting a 130 mm F/7 triplet, like the TS-Optics with FPL53 glass, and go down that route to get something better for viewing than my evolux 82ED offers or indeed what a binoviewer on a eg. 130-150 dublet ED will do. Money wise and future usability also for astrophotography, i think a 120-130 mm triplet is a better investment listening to the considerations you had. Again thank you.
Thanks Ed, I had some curiosity about binoviewers. Not some much now. Maybe in the future when I have more time and money. Think I'd rather chase the aperture dragon. 😁
Great video like always Ed I have always wondered about those funny looking things but now I know. Since I am a sky grazer (just panning never looking for anything in particular) I think I will stay with one eye.
I would love to give one a try but the other problem I immediately thought of is weight. I use a AD10 Dob and it has a hard time balancing with an upgraded finderscope and a single TV eyepiece, a 22 mm type IV most of the time for me. I use a 2 pound magnet wrapped in a sock (classy I know) to balance out the weight. I have also moved the pivot point as far towards the focuser as possible. There would be no way it would balance with two heavy EPs and a binoviewer. Now if I got that 16 inch Obsession I need...... I would love to give a nice binoviewer a try though. Visual or nothing for me!
Unfortunately, I am NOT handy. I would love an upgraded box. I know they can be both lighter AND more stable than mine but can't justify the money. Tracking would be beautiful as well.
greetings I don't know if I should curse you, but in the course of the video you almost managed to talk me out of the stupid idea of investing in this thing, only to completely destroy my determination to be a responsible person at the last minute. thank you very much i have a lot to think about.
Ed, Great review as always. Do you have a recommendation for those of us who wear glasses. Astigmatism forces me to wear glasses so get the best focus. Thanks, Bill
If you love observing the moon but only have a small refractor DON'T BE PUT OFF as I use a 40mm mask over my refractor { WOZS66} and the Moon is amazing with binoviewers, I have the cheap generic kind and with two 20mm plossls and the 1.6X adapter lens I get 65X and the moon is stunning! Remember Im just using a 40mm aperture!
If your friend can't merge, suggest that he have his eye doctor check him for adult strabismus. Lots of adults have it but don't realize it because they can very slightly turn their head to correct for it but since you can't turn your head when using binoviewer, you will see the mis-alignment. Next, I have owned maybe 12 to 14 binoviewers and never had one that went out of collimation.
An important point RE magniication. No binoviewer is perfectly collimated, even the most expensive. When using short eyepieces, the relative misalignment goes up in proportion to the magnfication. That is, let's say there is an error of 1 arc minute absolute in alignment. If the actual field of view of your (assumed perfectly matched and made) eyepieces is 1 degree, 60 minutes, then the error is only 1/60th of the apparent field of view. Now triple the power, say by adding a barlow, and the actual field of view goes down to 20 minutes, and the error increases to 1/20th of the apparent field of view. Eventually you reach a point where you can't merge the images comfortably. High power binoculars of course also suffer from this problem.
Ed, your beginner guide to binobiewers, is just what it is labeled as. The science about behind dimmer is objective. The brain is made to see and interpret two views, so the dimming effect to speak of is so little that it is not noticeable. When it comes to brands, there definitely is a difference. The size of the inner prisms is the key as you stated. I have used the low cost ones and them went on to the new Denkmeier Binotron 27 system with the power switch and filter switch. Using this setup has been just eye opening to the views of the night sky. With the power switch one set of eyes pieces becomes three …. For deep space I have viewed the Ring Nebula, and many galaxies with no issues…..As you stated the views of the Moon are just mind blowing…you may want to get the 3D 32mm LOA lenses and view the deep space objects. These lenses will change the way you will see deep space…in the depth as it would be viewed as if you were traveling in space….trust me it is a mind blowing experience.. Going back to cyclops viewing is a thing of the past for me…..Tom
Many thanks Ed you are inspiring as usual.. I have an opportunity to buy a maching Tak fluorite doublet 4" Do you think I could use them as binoculars with 2 diagonals and 2 le's say 2x Tpl 25mm...I also have 4mm toe but i wouldn't risk that much...😬
Hi Ed, with a budget of around $1000, I went for the Baader MaxBright II and a pair of their Hyperion 8-24mm zoom EPs. I'm hoping the MaxBright will work with my Baader Amici Prism diagonal on my NP101is, but I'm expecting it to be too heavy for my TV-76. Although I have the Ethos 6, 13, and 21, and the Nagler 2.5 and 31 eyepieces, I couldn't justify the cost of the TV BinoViewer, or doubling up on any of my TV EPs. The MaxBright II with a pair of their well reviewed zooms was the cost effective option for me...
Hey, thanks for that. When I saw your message I pulled out my Hyperion 8-24. That is a very wide eyepiece. Do you have problems with interpupil distance? Can people with narrow heads use it?
@@edting Hi Ed, the MaxBright II has an interpupil range of 55-75mm. I have a large'ish head, with a 65mm interpupil distance. If you are thinking outreach, and suitability for young persons with smaller, narrower heads, then I don't know at what age we achieve the 55mm threshold. I'm thinking mid-teens perhaps...
Superb video. Thx. Niggling point: when discussion the 24mm (or 19) Panoptic Vs. the 32mm (or 25) Plossl, you may make your point better by using the term “apparent” field of view. Good luck SIR!
Thanks for the info Ed! Unfortunately they are well out of my budget, especially since you have to buy two eyepieces for any given magnification. However, given that I do most of my observing at low power with my trusty short tube 80, what would you think of buying a pair of 80mm binoculars and using those on a tripod?
Great! I was just thinking to buy one. Is this fake 3D effect just how human brain works looking at some bright objects over a black background, or optic imperfections? Can it be minimised by using certain combinations of BVs & eyepieces?
Hi Ed. Another great video! I am contemplating another telescope purchase and I have 2 different models that I'm interested in. I wonder if you could weigh in. Your opinion is valuable! Thanks.
Thanks so much Ed. From my very first experience as a vendor in 2001 at.NEAF, I have worked full-time on solving the hurdles of binoviewing. This includes not having to buy more than one pair of Eyepieces because the power switch turns one pair into three pair, allowing the end-user to collimate in seconds, developing a 45 mm clear aperture optical corrector to avoid vignetting in a reflector, having a reducer in the power switch to allow an F 10 SCT to operate at F6.6, and last, but not least I invented the 3D Eyepieces, which really have never been done before, and I know of no attempt at it. People all over the world have been using these for six years. I would hope that you would contact me and do an up-to-date review on my products. I feel that they are different enough and unique enough to warrant a look. By the way, my Eyepieces are all matched optically, and I build every Binotron system with that persons particular Eyepieces that they’ve ordered, so that it is a complete and matched and perfectly collimated system. Anyway, you can contact me via the website and I would be happy to set you up with a whole system to review and evaluate. Obviously, my perspective comes from knowing what I do here and seeing that very important things have not been covered. certainly this would be the case with a broad-spectrum approach, and I do applaud your effort! I would not post this comment if I didn’t think for sure that you would have a very different and never before experienced time with what I would send you for evaluation.
Please review the phosphorus based night vision binoview telescope adapters. Are there any commercial customer oriented night vision telescope adapters? Also please orion 2x binoculars
Good afternoon Ed this is Jerry speaking love your videos and I have a couple questions on a vinyl view. Should I stay with a single piece for power or go to a variable? I have both I just need to buy one of the other. Could you please let me know?
If you're referring to eyepieces, you'll find a lot of debate on this topic. I don't like zoom eyepieces. Those things never seem right. It's usually best to start with a pair of 25mm eyepieces and move up and/or down from there.
Hey ed i am a beginner and i am having hard time in spoting stars, galaxy, planets and all kinds of stuff can u please make a video explaining how to spot objects with a non goto telescope pls!
The optics on your telescope are almost always vastly superior to those in typical binoculars (until you get into $5000 Fujinon territory). Plus you have the flexibility to try it out in different scopes.
For Milky way or simple stars watching use a binocular 20x80 or bigger, there is no way how to use a binoviewer for such low magnification and large angle of vision. For other sky objects - a telescope at least 100mm, better 150mm, magnification from 50x up to 200x is no problem, if you have well centered eyepieces. Othervise you have to turn the eyepieces so long, until you get a sigle picture, not a double view. My equipment: Baader Binoviewer Maxbright, corrector 1,7x and Explore Scientific 24mm 68 degrees or planetary eyepieces 12mm. There is no way back to singe eye observing!!! Known troubles: focuser too long - additional cost to solve it.
There have been a number of attempts at 3D eyepieces. I have limited experience with the Denks and from what I saw, there could be a future with these.
I have a lazy eye which makes marrying two images difficult. My brain tends to ignore the left eye input. I can get binoculars to work okay but I could see myself having trouble with these.
I have double vision. I see twice as many stars as everyone else. Once I looked at a crescent moon in a scope & saw 9 moons. I said "astronomy's not for me". Normally my problem is corrected by prism glasses. I can't use them when I look in my binocs and I'm sure I wouldn't like them in a telescope either. Any advice?
Great summary! One of the unsung advantages, for those who can merge images at high power, is viewing the planets. Being able to look with both eyes largely cancels out those annoying dark floaters that drop in front of the planet, obscuring details just when the seeing snaps in. It makes for a much more comfortable and natural viewing experience.
Thanks for the nice comments, Alan!
I love my binoviewers! The 3D effect is amazing especially with planets!
Wait until you see the Denk BinoTron!
I got my first telescope this week because of your videos. Thank you
Thanks Ed - really helpful video. I appreciate that you discussed both the hassles and benefits of binoviewing. I didn't know about the image merging issues with different people. I was pretty good at seeing the 3D images in the Magic Eye books which took some work, but binoviewing merging is probably different.
I recently got a Denkmeier B27 SuperSystem and am still learning how to get it all dialed in. The B27 system allows me to use the binoviewers on all three of my scopes, my 12" Orion dob, my 8" Celestron Evolution, and my (new!) Lunt LS80MT. Russ at Denkmeier has been super helpful and offers quick answers to my questions. I'm using his LOA 21mm eyepiece set which work quite well. Looking forward to your other videos.
I'm playing with his new Binotron system with the 3D eyepieces. Fascinating. The review is taking way longer than usual because I have to make sure I understand everything.
Great - I look forward to your review.
Nice overview Ed, I am a big fan of BVs too. The key thing about BVs which should be mentioned is they allow you to view in comfort for so much longer than cyclops viewing. I can effortlessly tease out detail on the planets for 20-30 minutes non-stop, allowing so much more to be seen. I could never do that with one eye!
I have used binoviewers exclusively for more than 20 years. This was a well-done, reasonably accurate assessment of the issues involved in binoviewing. I have not had problems merging images at any magnification, even 400X on those rare nights of superb seeing. As with all other things in astronomy, get the best quality you can afford.
A binoscope owner here... he was right about how passionate our niche is lol.
I am exclusively an imager, but I'll keep watching these because I'm facinated by the way you explain all this. Keep it up!
I have recently purchased the Williams Optics Binoviewer kit for my Celestron C130 Newtonian telescope. The recommendation by the seller (Agena Astro) was that due to focus length there may be problems. The seller was correct that without a barlow or the included 1.5X Barlow there is not enough focus length. But, with a 2X Barlow it does work fine. It gives about a 65X magnification with the provided 20mm eyepieces. I haven't tried any other eyepieces but am hopeful it will work with 32mm eyepieces.
You are correct in your video that it is like a completely new experience viewing the sky with two eyes vs. one. I have only just started with viewing the moon in first quarter.
Doing a little more research I think the Orion binoviewer may have been a better choice for a reflector but pricewise, the Williams Optics definitely is a great starter package.
Thanks for the video.
My binoviewer experience...meade 14'' sct, Televue bino , 2 Televue 19mm Panoptics, sitting comfortably , The view was so spectacular that it actually triggered my fear of hight , as if I was leaning out of a helicopter above a cratered sand pit. This would happen often. I would actually find myself instinctively moving my feet apart and reaching out with my hands to grab on to something.
I loved having friends sit in the chair , hand them the hand controller , set the binoviewer for them , I'd watch them take a ride around the moons surface, I use a Losmandy Titan 50 mount , Id show them ..just use these 4 direction buttons and enjoy. It spoils it for people who have never used a binoviewer , They could never be satisfied again with just mono one eyed viewing LOL!
Ed only mentioned this in passing, but interpupilary distance is a big factor when choosing eyepieces for a binoviewer. People with narrower IPDs (say, 65mm and narrower) might struggle with many of the fatter eyepieces out there. My IPD is 63mm and I cannot binoview even with Tele Vue DeLites. I have to "de-cloak" them to make them narrow enough to look through them.
I'd also like to reinforce Ed's point about the view being dimmer. I find that binoviewing is net worse for viewing deep sky objects. I've tried with my binoviewer for *years* to get a view of a deep sky object that looks better than monoviewing, and it just doesn't happen for me. I also don't get the 3D effect that a lot of people claim. It's still a flat view to me, just dimmer.
But for planets, dimming the view actually seems to help with their brightness and having signal from both eyes really makes contrast pop. You can actually see as much or more detail at lower magnifications binoviewing than you can at higher magnifications monoviewing. This has advantages when the atmosphere is not very steady.
Regarding merging, a big problem with merging comes down to the binoviewer itself. Binoviewers need to be collimated, and the more off the collimation is, the harder it is to merge. This is a big reason why people struggle to merge at higher magnification. Moreover, cheaper binoviewers often just have a single thumb screw to lock the eyepiece in place. This causes the eyepieces to tilt and misalign, which can completely prevent an observer from merging the view. You should only get a binoviewer with self-centering eyepiece collets to save yourself some frustration.
As a laboratory technician, we do visual tests for people applying for their pilots license and we do test binocular vision.
Wonderful video, Ed, as usual! Thanks! You forgot to mention, though, viewing the sun in h-alpha through a binoviewer. Talk about Wow!
I’m one of those binoviewer fanatics. Nice overview, but one big error. Increasing magnification does not make it harder to merge images, rather shorter focal length eyepieces is the problem (usually starting at less than about 10mm). So opposite of what was stated, barlows actually help to merge images and get higher powers. You might never be able to merge 9mm eyepieces, but 18mm with a 2x barlow is very easy to merge (and no more difficult than 18mm eyepieces without a barlow). This is the best way to get high powers with binoviewers.
I’ve also used almost all binoviewer models over 20 years of binoviewing, the Denkmeier Binotron is actually the easiest to use and that requires the least tinkering. They will work with all telescopes with the included powerswitch OCS. The Baader units are much more difficult to setup for different scopes using their glass path correctors, particularly reflectors.
The WO binoviewer is great for planets and the moon. I have no problem merging the image at any high magnification. The FOV is only a problem if you do deepsky.
I got one of those generic ones second hand with two eyepieces in a set for a bargain. I don't think I remember when I first saw the moon through a scope, but I will never ever forget the first time I saw it through that bino. I did it five nights in a row. Each night discovering something new as the terminator moved. It's amazing. If something would happen to it, I'd definitely get a new one even for the full price.
Well Ed, after watching this video and then trying a friend's Baader Binoviewer in a 14" Dob, I took the plunge!
I purchased a Denkmeier Binotron 27 w/ the 45 OCS, Powerswitch, and collimation tool.
It'll be used in my 16" Teeter f/4.5. Plan to use with two 24mm Panoptics. I'm taking it to a big start party in Florida next month. Can't wait.
Good for you! I'm working on a review of the Binotron right now.
@edting unfortunately I skipped the star party last week due to a flight and cloudy skies :(
I've managed to get some use with the Binotron in my 8se, but achieving focus has been challenging. I can use 2/3 of the powerswitch magnifications and 24mm Panoptics.
Hi Ed.... one more consideration.. eyepieces some times shows eccentricity... and most IMPORTANT.. binocular vision shows more detail and color saturation... Luis Gtz....Ophthalmologist. CS
I sold all my top planetary eyepieces such as ZAO II, TMB Supermonocentrik, Pentax XO and XW and moved to Baader Mark V binoviewer system with GPCs. Never looked back
Another interesting and informative video Mr Ting-thank you. I use a generic pair of binoviewers in my Meade 7” Mak and 120mm Chinese ‘apo’ refractor. The Meade for Lunar and Planetary and the refractor for Lunar/Planetary and wide field views. I find that I can pick out Planetary detail easier when using binoviewers and the views of the moon in my 7” Mak are truly immersive. The main drawback for me (apart from the cost) was not being able to bring my refractor into focus unless I inserted a Barlow lens into the scope. I was after low powered, wide field views. In the end I decided to cut down the OTA and now I can use the scope at low powers. Not for the faint hearted I know, but for me, a worthwhile project. BTW, if anyone reading this is into low powered wide field views of the night sky, a large pair of binoculars on a steady mount might be an alternative. These are also great for daytime viewing as well. Regardless of your chosen instrument, clear skies.
I am a relative beginner in observing but I do love my binoviewers. As you mentioned, they're great for planetary and lunar observing, which in my bortle 8 zone is 90% of what I do.
You didn't mention a great option for a reflector that can use binoviewers, which is the Skywatcher Flextube series (I have the 300p, which has 305 mm or 12 inches of aperture). It has 2 "locking" positions where the tube can slide to: a closer one for binoviewing and a further one for mono viewing or binoviewing with a barlow lens.
With the Flextube you can use a binoviewer without a corrector in the bottom position for the widest possible views and I use an eyepiece pairing that you didn't mention: Explore Scientific 68 degree 24 mm. Whilst good, I hear they are not quite as good as the Televues, but I paid $100 for each of them, which I think is about 1/3 of the price of the TV. If you get the chance, try it, I think it's a great experience!
Thank you for sharing, I have the same telescope (the synscan 300p, love this thing) but i've yet to try any binowiewer through it. Which binoviewer did you try with it?
@@ziggyfrnds I've got a converted Mitotoyo microscope binoviewer. I haven't measured the light loss mentioned in the video, but it is perceptably there.
I heard the Baader Maxbright (mentioned in a caption that Ed wants to try) is the way to go.
I used to have the Williams optics binoviewer Ed mentioned, I used it with a 10 inch solid tube dob but it was only useful on planets since I had to use a 2x Barlow to reach focus.......on the moon I almost always saw 2 images :-(
Now I have the flextube dob I'm tempted to try the baader binoviewer......let's see if I can find one on the used market
Good overview! I have never owned or used binoviewers, but from what I understand about the optical system, binoviewers will _always_ be dimmer than a single view due to the splitting effect, regardless of exit pupil. In astronomical viewing where you're trying to absolutely maximize the amount of light entering your eyes, this is a big constraint; it means that even if you optimize your eyepiece and telescope combination to get a 7mm exit pupil (or whatever your own eyes can accept) you would likely have been able to pick out more detail even with a smaller telescope because it can still present a 7mm exit pupil, just with more photons coming through the eyepiece. The binoviewer might give you two 7mm exit pupils, but each exit pupil is less than half as bright as the unmodified image and there's no tricks you can use to fix that.
Of course, the obvious solution is to rig up *two* telescopes (one for each eye) in which case you can achieve a full-sized full-brightness exit pupil in both eyes, which should allow you to see more detail than any single-telescope setup regardless of size or optical configuration. The funding, geometry, and optics to make such a system work are left as an exercise for the reader...
One thing I have noticed while viewing planets is that they appear larger when I view them through a binoviewer. Of course, it's just an optical illusion but, when it comes to astronomy, what you see is what you get. :D
I have a simple Lacerta binoviewer, which belongs to the generic Chinese binoviewer category that Ed mentioned in his video, but the price-performance ratio is very good (I got a new one for 200 Euros last year).
Hi Ed, I use a linear binoviewers. A weakness if I compare to Dank or Astro Physics is the field stop. But if these allow to use eyepieces with a longer focal length for same field of view, you also need to add a corrector (barlow). In the end there are no advantages. Linear bino has no back focus and I can move it from my refractor to my dob without any problem. These reasons guided my choice. I use them mainly on luminous objects, moon and planetary. Their use eliminate eye strain and fatigue and it’s much more comfortable. They didn’t replace my eyepieces kit but this is another way to observe.
Got my first BV about 12 years ago. Toatal game changer! Everything looks better. Totally agree, the Moon is mesmerizing in BV's. Finally got a Baader Max Bright with the short diagonal. Can use in my W.O. Zenithstar 110 APO straight w/o an OCA! Have 24mm Panoptics which yields roughly 32x for nice wide, lp viewing. But, the BVs came with 1.25, 1.7 & 2.3 OCA lenses that insert into the diagonal for different magnifications if desired.
Occaisionsl merging issues at higher mags for planetary viewing with TV 8mm Plossls, but can usually get dialed in.
Another issue with BVs to overcome is balancing the scope on the mount. The BVs + EPs add weight that is 90 degrees from the scope axis and COG. I use an offset, adjustable, counterweight on the dovetail bracket of the OTA to rebalance as needed for different EPs and focuser travel.
Great subject, thanks!
I have an old Celestron branded Baader Planetarium model, made in Wetzlar, West-Germany that I bought at a Celestron factory sale back around 1991-ish (where I worked at the time). I stack it with a Televue 1.8x or 3.0x Barlow. The main drawback (besides needing two eyepieces of course) is that when you adjust the interpupilary distance it changes focus. I tend to have many first timers when I roll the scope out, so it can be challenging.
I don't think I'd let it go for any amount.
I use it with a pair of Celestron silver barrel 26mm Plossl or a pair of Celestron black barrel 30mm Ultima Series. Combined with the small amount of magnification inherent in the bino-viewer that gives me about 213x, 245x, 354x or 409x. My preference is the 1.8x barlow and the 26mm Plossl at 245x if the seeing can stand it.
I have also on occasion used a pale red or blue filter in one or the other eye for planetary viewing to enhance cloud cover on Mars for instance. There are many options doing that, which adds interest after you've seen something for the thousandth time. :)
Enjoying your channel. Thanks for the time and trouble it takes to put together these videos.
Ed focused on some pretty pricey binos and eps. My budget only allowed me to buy the Celestron bino and a couple of Meade 20mm plossls. The views of the moon through my 8SE are wonderful. Looking forward to trying it out on Jupiter and Saturn. Can’t really comment on dso yet until I can get to a dark site. The Celestron unit is affordable and works well enough to give you a taste. If you like the bino views you can sell it and step up to higher end stuff. If not, just sell it. They go pretty quickly on Cloudy Nights.
I have a Denkmeier deep sky that I bought on cloudy nights a decade or so ago. I like them for my maks and sct's and occasionally for my Dobs. The biggest problem I find with the 10" f6 Dob is that when you are checking collimation using them, you most definitely see that nose-piece of the ocs sticking in to your field of view in for and aft out defocused views (it is a solid tube Dob so I can't adjust the tube length). This makes any collimation adjustment with them iffy. And, they come uncomfortably close to the secondary mirror... One this is worked through they are a hoot to use even with my cheapie plossl eyepiece sets at 40mm, 32mm, and even the 26mm. 3d illusion in spades on the Orion nebula! The moon is just incredible! Everyone should try them at least once! If you're able to use binoculars, binocular should come easy! Another benefit for me is... using 2 eyes instead of one helps me overcome the clouds, gobs and floaters that I have in both eyes... 👍👍
Hi Ed, I Have the williams Optic BV and I consider them great for a low price option.The eyepieces i use are Vixen NLP’s 25mm and they are pretty good. As mentioned above BV’s are great for planets.and to b e honest I couldn’t agree more . I have televue eyepieces and they do not match looking through BV’s even the inexpensive ones such as william optics.
I think you forgot the Baader Max bright 2. They are only $600 and a step above the Chinese ones..
Cheap binos with 8" SCT is the perfect combo. Get 26mm plossls. They just work.
Any thoughts on linear binoviewers? Specifically the Orion linear binoviewer which I already purchased, but haven’t had a chance to try yet. 😅
I wished for a video like this a long time ago (long time in youtube time i.e. 12 months :D ) then I read your excellent articles and armed with knowledge into what I was getting into, experienced the whole binoviewer experience myself. But this video really hits the spot......you've nicely summarized the problems and advantages! Thank you Mr Ting! this really hit the spot :)
I've looked through a Siebert 2" binoviewer that was set up in a 20" SCT and wow, what a view. I ended up getting a 2" Siebert.
Watching right through a second time: thanks a million. This is great. I’ve come to realize that there aren’t many (if any) “plug and play” bino viewers on the market now that the Tele Vue item has been discontinued.
Thanks for emphasizing the personal variability of being able to merge the view in each eyepiece. I’ll have to try some else’s before buying.
Your presentation (production values) are superb.
For a few grand, i would probably get a nice pair of large aperture binoculars, like oberwork or something. You can change eyepieces, and you get true aperture size vs binoviewer, as well as two different views through the wobbling atmosphere, giving you an even better view. One eye distorted and the other eye might not be. Even more 3d effect as the two images are slightly different.
I'm surprised you didn't mention linear binoviewers. They work on all telescopes, including reflectors, and don't need a barlow.
I just started looking into a linear bino viewers because I could not achieve focus with my 12-in dobsonian. Do you have any recommendations?
@@acem7749 I own the one made by Explore Scientific but, other than the color, they're the same as the one made by Orion.
Can you use these with Paracor-II in something like a 16.5” f/3.7 Lockwood Dob??
I would imagine that the additional weight could be a problem on a dob?
Yes, it's a big problem. You'll see people hanging big weights off the back of their Dobs.
Have a Burgess BV'r with Burgess WA 20, 12, 8mm EPs (they have 65° FOV) on a TMB 152. The TMB allows one to use without a barlow (OCA). I am able to marry the images even at higher magnifications. Superb for viewing all the planets and the moon. As you stated, it is breathtaking to view the moon with it. What I find interesting is that objects don't appear dimmer, probably because of seeing them with both eyes. Comparing views of the planets with the BV'r and with a UO Ortho EP, I find I can see more detail with the BV'r. It is certainly more comfortable viewing with it, ie less eye fatigue.
Pretty interesting information.
I always learn something new here.
I tried to build a cheap bino telescope by mounting two Celestron 80 mm telescopes side by side on metal plates with slots for alignment , a pretty simple experiment.
But my problem is the center to center distance is to wide for my eyes and I thought that maybe it would work with two right angles turned towards the center to get the lens in line with the eyes , but the light is coming in at angle to the eyes rather than straight and would not come in to dual view .
Also it is to heavy for the light EQ mount to handle , and if one wants to use the EQ ability the mount needs to have one more function added to it to keep the telescopes level as it tracks the sky .
Not that this can not be built with smaller mm telescopes to get the center to center distance to match the persons eye PD and a lot heavier mount for the load.
I have found that this dual telescope is nice for putting a low power lens in one and a higher power lens in the other one and just moving my eye from one scope to the other to change power or putting a camera in the one and view / search in the other side , it is working fare , but still aligning the pair to get them on point yet , that has been very difficult to do that .
My eyes are not so good at my age and hopping to get the hole camera thing to work to get a better high power veiw .
Yes, you'd actually be better off just using a binoviewer. Building a bino-telescope is quite difficult. If the scopes are out of collimation, or aren't aimed precisely, you will get seasick. If the objectives have different focal lengths (common in inexpensive Chinese optics) you will get seasick. If you can't figure out a way to accommodate different interpupillary distances, you will get seasick. So as strange as it sounds, using a binoviewer is actually the *less* complex option.
Thank you Ed. I bought a pair of BVs from Williams Scientific several months ago and was underwhelmed, but when i tried to return them i was told that it would cost me 80 to return them and there would be a restock fee so i would be out over 100. I kept them. I might try them again to look at the moon, it will be tough for them to beat my celestron binoculars but worth a try.
I have just bought myself a new Baader Maxbright II binoviewer. I'm looking forward to astro darkness returning to give them a try. I have found binoviewers to be outstanding for lunar observing providing a 3D like image. Oh and on solar.
I'm trying to get my hands on one of those!
Hey, Ed! Great overview on one of my favorite accessories. When I bought my William Optics Zenithstar 61 refractor, I also purchased their binoviewer and a Baader prism diagonal to use for lunar observing. It works well enough for that but not at all well for planets though you can see them a little.
My wife can’t even merge what she sees in binoculars - so the binoviewer is wasted. I love it though, especially on the moon. I just use the Cheap Celestron bino with those 25mm Celestron eyepieces. Does great on a C8. My daughters are 6 and 8- they’re not very clear on closing one eye when observing yet, so the binos solve that issue too 😊
I'm hearing from a lot of people (privately) who say they can't merge images in anything. It's almost like they're embarrassed. There is nothing to be embarrassed about, it's the way you're built.
Another great review!
Once you go bino it’s hard to go back to mono viewing. I’ve been dealing with Russ at Denkmeier for over 10 years. His products are first rate and so is his customer support. He is a true gentleman.
An interesting view for the binoviewer. Was “meh” on it before, and moreso now in learning about its light reduction. But the idea of seeing something a little more in 3D does sound intriguing
For what it's worth, I don't experience any 3D effect when binoviewing. The view is simply more comfortable, and for planets, the contrast is substantially better. Jupiter's cloud bands really stand, and so do Mars's albedo features.
You are point on, I will never forget my first view at the moon with my 8" refractor and a paar of 9mm Meade 5000 Plössl´s... a friend of mine had lent me his Baader Mark IV for this evening.
I just received my modified Carl Zeiss binoviewer from a Romanian Astromart seller. It’s supposed to be awesome because Barlow-like lenses are not needed. I won’t be able to test them until October or November. Summers are so hot here in Florida that it’s my off-season for observing. I do all my observing between November and mid-May.
Hey Ed glad to see you again. I just bought my first binoviewer and it arrived yesterday. A good deal on a used one. Can’t wait to try it.
Ed, as always, I enjoyed this video. Just scratching the surface (perhaps a poor phrase in optics) and tweaky? You bet!
To those ends, if I may suggest, how about reviewing specific samples more in depth, just like you do with individual telescopes? One that leaps to mind, for example, is the Denk Binotron Super System. This system is adaptable to all telescopes with a two inch eyepiece format. The handy power slide switch system allows three different magnification levels from a single eyepiece pair. And for you and some others who have trouble merging images at higher magnifications, the ability to adjust the viewer's collimation on the fly, might be a big deal, extending the usefulness of the viewer on the moon, planets and double stars.
Working on a review now!
Excellent discourse. What do you have any thoughts on Orion's GiantView binoculars.
Hi Ed, thank you for a very good review of the binoviewers in general. Adding up my knowledge and the impressions from your review, I am leaning towards getting a 130 mm F/7 triplet, like the TS-Optics with FPL53 glass, and go down that route to get something better for viewing than my evolux 82ED offers or indeed what a binoviewer on a eg. 130-150 dublet ED will do. Money wise and future usability also for astrophotography, i think a 120-130 mm triplet is a better investment listening to the considerations you had. Again thank you.
Those with collapsible truss tube Dobs can lower the trusses a few cm's to get focus without a barlow
Vlad of AVT-Astro channel has a bino-viewer consisting of two 12" reflectors. Says it works great. I think it is a 12", it is not smaller.
Thanks Ed, I had some curiosity about binoviewers. Not some much now. Maybe in the future when I have more time and money. Think I'd rather chase the aperture dragon. 😁
Hi Ed and thanks. I've never heard of this. Very interesting concept
Great video like always Ed I have always wondered about those funny looking things but now I know. Since I am a sky grazer (just panning never looking for anything in particular) I think I will stay with one eye.
I'm eagerly awaiting your review of the Sarblue Makutsov , the miniscule and very cheap telescope ( which is so popular it's almost never in stock)
Do not buy the Sarblue Mak (or any of its name-branded clones). Plastic junk. Be careful out there.
I kept waiting for the eyepieces to fly out as he was waving the binoviewer around.
I made extra sure to tighten things down before shooting the video.
27mm Prisms needed for 1.25". Helpful ty
Great video. Just when I am considering getting one.
I would love to give one a try but the other problem I immediately thought of is weight. I use a AD10 Dob and it has a hard time balancing with an upgraded finderscope and a single TV eyepiece, a 22 mm type IV most of the time for me. I use a 2 pound magnet wrapped in a sock (classy I know) to balance out the weight. I have also moved the pivot point as far towards the focuser as possible. There would be no way it would balance with two heavy EPs and a binoviewer. Now if I got that 16 inch Obsession I need......
I would love to give a nice binoviewer a try though. Visual or nothing for me!
If you're handy, I've seen people build a dedicated bino-view rocker box for their Dobs. Raise it up and move the balance point backwards.
Unfortunately, I am NOT handy.
I would love an upgraded box. I know they can be both lighter AND more stable than mine but can't justify the money. Tracking would be beautiful as well.
I agree on every point you say. My BinoVue is excellent and the Moon is just jawdropping throu it :-)
greetings
I don't know if I should curse you, but in the course of the video you almost managed to talk me out of the stupid idea of investing in this thing, only to completely destroy my determination to be a responsible person at the last minute. thank you very much i have a lot to think about.
Exactly what I needed.
Ed,
Great review as always.
Do you have a recommendation for those of us who wear glasses. Astigmatism forces me to wear glasses so get the best focus.
Thanks,
Bill
I don't know what kind of glasses you wear, but if you want maximum eye relief, choose the TeleVue 32mm Plossls over the 24mm Panoptics.
If you love observing the moon but only have a small refractor DON'T BE PUT OFF as I use a 40mm mask over my refractor { WOZS66} and the Moon is amazing with binoviewers, I have the cheap generic kind and with two 20mm plossls and the 1.6X adapter lens I get 65X and the moon is stunning! Remember Im just using a 40mm aperture!
ok, my decision @2:16 made me not got the route of binoviewers
If your friend can't merge, suggest that he have his eye doctor check him for adult strabismus. Lots of adults have it but don't realize it because they can very slightly turn their head to correct for it but since you can't turn your head when using binoviewer, you will see the mis-alignment. Next, I have owned maybe 12 to 14 binoviewers and never had one that went out of collimation.
An important point RE magniication. No binoviewer is perfectly collimated, even the most expensive. When using short eyepieces, the relative misalignment goes up in proportion to the magnfication. That is, let's say there is an error of 1 arc minute absolute in alignment. If the actual field of view of your (assumed perfectly matched and made) eyepieces is 1 degree, 60 minutes, then the error is only 1/60th of the apparent field of view. Now triple the power, say by adding a barlow, and the actual field of view goes down to 20 minutes, and the error increases to 1/20th of the apparent field of view. Eventually you reach a point where you can't merge the images comfortably. High power binoculars of course also suffer from this problem.
Ed, your beginner guide to binobiewers, is just what it is labeled as. The science about behind dimmer is objective. The brain is made to see and interpret two views, so the dimming effect to speak of is so little that it is not noticeable. When it comes to brands, there definitely is a difference. The size of the inner prisms is the key as you stated. I have used the low cost ones and them went on to the new Denkmeier Binotron 27 system with the power switch and filter switch. Using this setup has been just eye opening to the views of the night sky. With the power switch one set of eyes pieces becomes three …. For deep space I have viewed the Ring Nebula, and many galaxies with no issues…..As you stated the views of the Moon are just mind blowing…you may want to get the 3D 32mm LOA lenses and view the deep space objects. These lenses will change the way you will see deep space…in the depth as it would be viewed as if you were traveling in space….trust me it is a mind blowing experience.. Going back to cyclops viewing is a thing of the past for me…..Tom
Many thanks Ed you are inspiring as usual.. I have an opportunity to buy a maching Tak fluorite doublet 4" Do you think I could use them as binoculars with 2 diagonals and 2 le's say 2x Tpl 25mm...I also have 4mm toe but i wouldn't risk that much...😬
Hi Ed, with a budget of around $1000, I went for the Baader MaxBright II and a pair of their Hyperion 8-24mm zoom EPs. I'm hoping the MaxBright will work with my Baader Amici Prism diagonal on my NP101is, but I'm expecting it to be too heavy for my TV-76.
Although I have the Ethos 6, 13, and 21, and the Nagler 2.5 and 31 eyepieces, I couldn't justify the cost of the TV BinoViewer, or doubling up on any of my TV EPs.
The MaxBright II with a pair of their well reviewed zooms was the cost effective option for me...
Hey, thanks for that. When I saw your message I pulled out my Hyperion 8-24. That is a very wide eyepiece. Do you have problems with interpupil distance? Can people with narrow heads use it?
@@edting Hi Ed, the MaxBright II has an interpupil range of 55-75mm. I have a large'ish head, with a 65mm interpupil distance.
If you are thinking outreach, and suitability for young persons with smaller, narrower heads, then I don't know at what age we achieve the 55mm threshold. I'm thinking mid-teens perhaps...
Superb video. Thx.
Niggling point: when discussion the 24mm (or 19) Panoptic Vs. the 32mm (or 25) Plossl, you may make your point better by using the term “apparent” field of view.
Good luck SIR!
Thanks for the clarification!
@@edting Omegon Binocular head Pro Tritron bino-viewers, 1.25''. What you think of these?
Oh my god that’s a lot of effort and money…but that 3D effect sounds absolutely brilliant. Maybe one day haha.
Thanks for the info Ed! Unfortunately they are well out of my budget, especially since you have to buy two eyepieces for any given magnification. However, given that I do most of my observing at low power with my trusty short tube 80, what would you think of buying a pair of 80mm binoculars and using those on a tripod?
@ed_ting01 I have reported you for impersonating Ed.
Great! I was just thinking to buy one. Is this fake 3D effect just how human brain works looking at some bright objects over a black background, or optic imperfections? Can it be minimised by using certain combinations of BVs & eyepieces?
Hi Ed. Another great video! I am contemplating another telescope purchase and I have 2 different models that I'm interested in. I wonder if you could weigh in. Your opinion is valuable! Thanks.
Thanks so much Ed. From my very first experience as a vendor in 2001 at.NEAF, I have worked full-time on solving the hurdles of binoviewing. This includes not having to buy more than one pair of Eyepieces because the power switch turns one pair into three pair, allowing the end-user to collimate in seconds, developing a 45 mm clear aperture optical corrector to avoid vignetting in a reflector, having a reducer in the power switch to allow an F 10 SCT to operate at F6.6, and last, but not least I invented the 3D Eyepieces, which really have never been done before, and I know of no attempt at it. People all over the world have been using these for six years. I would hope that you would contact me and do an up-to-date review on my products. I feel that they are different enough and unique enough to warrant a look. By the way, my Eyepieces are all matched optically, and I build every Binotron system with that persons particular Eyepieces that they’ve ordered, so that it is a complete and matched and perfectly collimated system. Anyway, you can contact me via the website and I would be happy to set you up with a whole system to review and evaluate. Obviously, my perspective comes from knowing what I do here and seeing that very important things have not been covered. certainly this would be the case with a broad-spectrum approach, and I do applaud your effort! I would not post this comment if I didn’t think for sure that you would have a very different and never before experienced time with what I would send you for evaluation.
Hey is this Russ? Do you want to contact me at eting at aol dot com?
Yes Ed, it’s Russ. I will contact you. Thanks so much for responding.
You didn't mention one of their best uses, solar. I tried my binoviewer with my quark recently and will never go back to viewing with it any other way
Yes, good point. Several club members use their binoviewers on solar scopes.
What is the golden refractor in the background?
what do you think of L-O-A 3d eyepieces? Never looked through one. Sounds...interesting
oh no, why I keep watching these videos?, you sold it, I want one! I hate you, jajajaja, nah, Joking!
Please review the phosphorus based night vision binoview telescope adapters. Are there any commercial customer oriented night vision telescope adapters? Also please orion 2x binoculars
Good afternoon Ed this is Jerry speaking love your videos and I have a couple questions on a vinyl view. Should I stay with a single piece for power or go to a variable? I have both I just need to buy one of the other. Could you please let me know?
If you're referring to eyepieces, you'll find a lot of debate on this topic. I don't like zoom eyepieces. Those things never seem right. It's usually best to start with a pair of 25mm eyepieces and move up and/or down from there.
Thanks keep up the good work
Hey ed i am a beginner and i am having hard time in spoting stars, galaxy, planets and all kinds of stuff can u please make a video explaining how to spot objects with a non goto telescope pls!
Ins't it more cost effective to get a pair of large binoculars? How can you compare binos to bino viewer?
The optics on your telescope are almost always vastly superior to those in typical binoculars (until you get into $5000 Fujinon territory). Plus you have the flexibility to try it out in different scopes.
please review the apetura ad8 it’s a 8inch dob but it would be nice to hear your opinions on the accessory’s and build quality
All commercial 8" Dobsonians are highly recommended, regardless of whose name is on the side of the tube.
What about full binoculars (with two tubes no loss of light and probably cheaper since you can probably buy a tube for the price of a binoviewer) ?
For Milky way or simple stars watching use a binocular 20x80 or bigger, there is no way how to use a binoviewer for such low magnification and large angle of vision. For other sky objects - a telescope at least 100mm, better 150mm, magnification from 50x up to 200x is no problem, if you have well centered eyepieces. Othervise you have to turn the eyepieces so long, until you get a sigle picture, not a double view. My equipment: Baader Binoviewer Maxbright, corrector 1,7x and Explore Scientific 24mm 68 degrees or planetary eyepieces 12mm. There is no way back to singe eye observing!!! Known troubles: focuser too long - additional cost to solve it.
Thank you Ed! Do you know LOA 3D eypieces? Any experiences? It's interesting topic in bino world.
There have been a number of attempts at 3D eyepieces. I have limited experience with the Denks and from what I saw, there could be a future with these.
@@edting good to know and thanks for sharing your experiences : ) in the future I want bino for my C11 so this series is on point!
I need more Ed Ting videos
Thanks, these videos are a lot of work though!
How about the Siebert Binos? Anybody have any opinions on them?
I wish I could enjoy binoviewer too but I have recessive strabismus issue😢
Going in the opposite direction is viewing 100 mm binoculars the same as viewing in a 200 mm telescope?
I have a lazy eye which makes marrying two images difficult. My brain tends to ignore the left eye input. I can get binoculars to work okay but I could see myself having trouble with these.
I have double vision. I see twice as many stars as everyone else. Once I looked at a crescent moon in a scope & saw 9 moons. I said "astronomy's not for me".
Normally my problem is corrected by prism glasses. I can't use them when I look in my binocs and I'm sure I wouldn't like them in a telescope either.
Any advice?
That's a new one on me. I'm not sure what to advise you. I wonder what an eye doc could tell you.
@@edting regrettably they don't have any answer.
bad for me , binoviewers are expensive and not many are available in my region 😢
That is a valid complaint.
I made it to 3:50 and not gonna happen for me 🙂 Wondered about bino but not in my budget. Cheaper to just build binocular from two scopes.