Why I chose the Steam Deck

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  • Опубліковано 22 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 147

  • @JonMacapodi
    @JonMacapodi 10 місяців тому +10

    Honestly, the instant sleep/resume and overall polish of SteamOS is the biggest draw for me. I want a portable gaming that has great battery life and allows me to quickly get gaming within seconds during commutes or downtime - not bogged down with windows login, OS + driver updates, popups, and UI + input workarounds between different apps and launchers.
    Steam Deck OLED is the easy choice.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  10 місяців тому +3

      Yeah! I don't have much free time. Work, family, chores lol. If I only have a few minutes to play, I just want to press the power button and start gaming.

  • @geejaybee
    @geejaybee 11 місяців тому +13

    What makes this the best is not really the performance but the value. This is nearly £200 cheaper than the Legion go in the UK.

  • @grantmitchel2810
    @grantmitchel2810 11 місяців тому +9

    Love the deck. Steams winter sale is live. Just picked up Monster Hunter Rise, Jurassic World Evolution 2, Callisto Protocol, Witcher 3, and Fallout 76 for less than $100

  • @manemperorofmankind8119
    @manemperorofmankind8119 11 місяців тому +5

    Love the small shout out to transistor haha, I love that game!

  • @j0hnthegreek
    @j0hnthegreek 10 місяців тому +2

    Steam deck is great! But game compatibility was my biggest issue. Decided to get the rog ally. I love how this category is growing.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  10 місяців тому

      Yeah that's something that's important the more I use the steam deck. Especially with game pass. Most of my games are on steam so didn't really consider that until more time has passed.

    • @jebril
      @jebril 10 місяців тому +2

      Which game just curious? For single player games I haven’t found any that don’t work on Deck yet…well without looking for one. I think there was a Sonic game or something that didn’t work.

  • @UnOeufff
    @UnOeufff 11 місяців тому +5

    Returned my ROG ally for the new deck.

    • @joeyxl3456
      @joeyxl3456 11 місяців тому +3

      The Deck looks so comfortable to hold aswell :)

  • @TheChefComic
    @TheChefComic 10 місяців тому +1

    Ironically this helped me decide to get the Legion go.

  • @roderickmorales
    @roderickmorales 10 місяців тому +3

    I have the Ally and totally love it! The weight difference it’s laughable because the Ally is lighter and smaller than the Deck. I wanted to see what the big hype is so I just ordered a 512GB OLED Steam Deck. We’ll see how it goes.

  • @volodymyrkovalskyi2061
    @volodymyrkovalskyi2061 11 місяців тому +9

    I am not sure if it's a fair comparison here - SD runs games at 800p and the other platforms are running the games at 1080p! All of the platforms should be 800p.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +3

      That would have been ideal. But I got rid of the other ones. So i couldn’t retest. So the best I could do was run the steam deck at 1080p.

    • @wolfwoof2000
      @wolfwoof2000 11 місяців тому +3

      I run my games no problem in 1080p on my tv

    • @consume_vegetables
      @consume_vegetables 10 місяців тому

      I would agree as well. smaller screens can get away with a lower resolution. or until developers can optimize their games for low spec gaming in 1080p.

  • @SkyKnight
    @SkyKnight 11 місяців тому +36

    eastern european here, hope this doesen't come out as racist: the orange on the steam deck goes so well with black skin.

    • @BrotherBanks2
      @BrotherBanks2 11 місяців тому +19

      I’m a black skin steam deck who loves orange and I approve this message!

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +15

      😂 I had to read that one out loud to everyone around me. Thanks I’m not black though. I’m brown. Ancestors are from India.

    • @WheeledHamster
      @WheeledHamster 11 місяців тому

      That ain't black skin, it's a translucent smoked shell.

    • @SkyKnight
      @SkyKnight 11 місяців тому

      @@consumertechwarehouse my mistake then. to apologise for my mistake i will subscribe :)

    • @PatricioHernandez-p7p
      @PatricioHernandez-p7p 11 місяців тому

      Las year they released the whities one!

  • @Ditronus.
    @Ditronus. 10 місяців тому +7

    Have both right now. Cant decide between the two haha. Been doing a lot of comparisons and tests for a while. For some reason streaming from my ps5 using chiaki is pulling ahead by quite a ways on the ally compared to the deck oled with chiaki4deck. Not sure why. Both were doing good, but now the steam deck has horrible blurriness when you turn the camera. Steamdeck feels more comfortable, but if streaming doesnt work as well, leaning towards keeping the ally for the increase power, 1080p, gamepass, streaming, and better storefront potential with playnite.

  • @consume_vegetables
    @consume_vegetables 10 місяців тому

    Steam Deck OLED is the same price with the ROG Ally where I'm from (unless you can get a parcel forwarder and purchase on your behalf in the US, it's 10% customs tax + shipping + service fee). Could've gone with ROG Ally but Asus is not really as dedicated to their product after-purchase support as Valve does. That alone makes it worth and inspire confidence that it will be relevant for years.
    Aside from that, Valve really made low spec gaming feasible. with the OLED; TDP locked at 15w, 45FPS lock - I managed to squeeze close to 3 hours of play in GTA V. the 90hz screen made 45fps really smooth and playable. I am always in the impression that 60fps is the standard for a game to be playable but the Steam Deck changed that. Maybe 60fps minimum may still be a necessity for competitive games.
    Finally, I can get around playing my steam backlog (I'm not even halfway thru The Witcher 3 after I bought it years ago).

  • @PresUlyssesSGrant
    @PresUlyssesSGrant 10 місяців тому +2

    lol I didn’t get the limited edition because I was too on the fence about whether or not to get a deck or not so I waited too long, but I just got a skin for my steam deck oled so now it looks completely different than the original design or even the limited edition design

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  10 місяців тому

      Yeah. I've seen some awesome skins to where it can look better than the limited edition

  • @StuffJohnson
    @StuffJohnson 11 місяців тому

    Great vid. I’d love to see some follow up videos on the steam deck oled. I’m thinking of buying one myself.

  • @yrkme84
    @yrkme84 10 місяців тому +1

    what is the game you playing at 5:54

  • @NOSFYT
    @NOSFYT 6 місяців тому

    im sorry, this is a great video, not gonna lie, but for some reason, i could not stop thinking that you sound like sponge bob
    ( BTW, was is doubt if i should get the deck over the ally xt, was a bit concerned about performance, but i think you sold the deck to me, i can always stream more demanding games from my desktop )
    does emulation work okay on this (ps3 and switch)?

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  6 місяців тому

      😆 haven’t heard sponge bob. I get steve o a lot. Recently I got a legion go and instantly regretted it. The steam deck is so much better. And performance at 1080p on the ally is the same as 800p on the steam deck. And OLED wins here.
      I haven’t done any emulation so can’t help there. Glad you liked the video though

    • @KingKraft0867
      @KingKraft0867 5 місяців тому

      Check out retro game corp, he does tons of emulation on the deck, but yes it works fantastically. Imo the best emulator especially the trackpads for Wii and stuff like that

  • @musicavns
    @musicavns 10 місяців тому +1

    talking about standby and quick bot, doesn't ROG ally also have it? we can costumize the power button for hibernate mode, so what is the difference with SteamDeck then? i never own a SteamDeck tho, opinion??

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  10 місяців тому +1

      Yeah but booting from hibernation isn't instant. And sometimes games crash or have weird issues after booting from hibernation

  • @badmoose01
    @badmoose01 9 місяців тому

    Interestingly the Steamdeck custom apu often outperforms the Z1 extreme at sub 15 watt tdp and can be set to lower wattages than any windows handheld.

    • @badmoose01
      @badmoose01 9 місяців тому

      Also a surprising amount of games run well at sub 10 watt tdp.

  • @davidagiel8130
    @davidagiel8130 5 місяців тому

    I just tried this with RoboCop quacked version and it worked. Will it work for spiderman as well? I heard there is another way by connecting a second controller.

  • @kmdkmd-jz8pv
    @kmdkmd-jz8pv 11 місяців тому +1

    BOE made the oled panels for the SE units. If you got no dead pixels the boe panel is better.

    • @theo5675
      @theo5675 11 місяців тому

      That's true

    • @Psygnosis
      @Psygnosis 10 місяців тому

      How is it better? Heard a lot of these SE with dead pixels because of BOE panels. The none SE seems to have the better panels

    • @kmdkmd-jz8pv
      @kmdkmd-jz8pv 10 місяців тому

      ⁠@@Psygnosis the Samsung panel has worst uniformity with much more green fringe.

    • @Psygnosis
      @Psygnosis 10 місяців тому

      @@kmdkmd-jz8pv and this is why I picked the legion go. Don't want to worry about dead pixels or losing the lottery for a good OLED on a steam deck, since both Samsung and boe have their issues.

    • @kmdkmd-jz8pv
      @kmdkmd-jz8pv 10 місяців тому

      @@Psygnosis lcd has its own issues though, can still have dead pixels or edge light bleed. Hopefully handhelds will start getting some mini led panels too.

  • @janpaolodimacali6984
    @janpaolodimacali6984 10 місяців тому +1

    Hi! May I know what game is that on 7:28 time stamp?

    • @KingKraft0867
      @KingKraft0867 5 місяців тому

      Could be completely wrong, but my guess is hades 2?

  • @lenzkimoto5255
    @lenzkimoto5255 11 місяців тому

    Thank you so much im getting the sd oled

  • @kevinpalmer9942
    @kevinpalmer9942 11 місяців тому

    Excellent video!

  • @Jake-ti2ol
    @Jake-ti2ol 11 місяців тому

    High quality video. keep posting more tech stuff please!

  • @lennymarinez
    @lennymarinez 9 місяців тому

    idk man. there are many people stating the etched glass matte look doesn't pop (oled and hdr wise) like the glossy finish on the 512gig model. I personally chose the 512gig myself for that reason and slapped in a 1tb sandisk extreme micro sd. Not hating just sharing.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  9 місяців тому

      Both steam decks I used have the matte display, so I really can't comment. But in most cases, yeah, matte screens look worse than glossy.

  • @madmyc6836
    @madmyc6836 11 місяців тому +2

    The actually contracted boe to make the displays the only reason valve switched to Samsung is because Samsung is suing boe for stealing their tech and boe has been ordered to stop selling oled panels until the case is decided. And a lot of the first steam deck oleds actually came with boe panels especially the limited edition ones. They should all be Samsung moving forward though

  • @cqllel5186
    @cqllel5186 10 місяців тому +2

    Out of all the PC handhelds on the market, Valve is the only one that made an extremely well designed system
    Handhelds need a perfect balance betwee performance and battery. That's where the others fall short. The only thing they really have over the Steam Deck is overall performance. They're inferior in literally erry other possible way

    • @consume_vegetables
      @consume_vegetables 10 місяців тому +1

      I agree. That's the big challenge for the engineering teams. I would add: performance, battery life, size, and costs. It's also a significant factor that Gaben admits that they are selling the Deck at a loss, which is pretty hard to compete for other companies.

    • @cqllel5186
      @cqllel5186 10 місяців тому

      @@consume_vegetables Performance + a battery that can keep up with the hardware. And specs (800p/90hz) that doesn't go beyond the hardware's capabilities or tax playtime so much
      Ally and especially the Legion Go are HORRIBLY designed bcuz of that. They're way ahead of their time and lack basic necessities
      1080p120 is too much for a handheld, if not for the inability to make full use if it, it serves as a battery killer and defeats the purpose of portability. And the LeGo is between 2k and 4k res with 144hz which is just beyond greedy, it's overkill
      They're all dropping to 720p in games anyways smdh. And still not even getting the full refresh rate

    • @antwanowens4013
      @antwanowens4013 4 місяці тому

      Yea I have the base model 64gb I thought about buying a rog ally but ima decide maybe tonight on if ima buy the 512lcd and boot windows are buy the ally rog

  • @aviatedviewssound4798
    @aviatedviewssound4798 10 місяців тому

    Are they even running the same graphical setting, which has a huge impact on the FPS benchmark? Also, why not test them all at the same resolution and also test the performance per watt?

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  10 місяців тому

      Same graphics settings. Same resolution. I tested at 3 different power settings on the Ally. But the steam deck at the default power settings.

  • @wolfwoof2000
    @wolfwoof2000 11 місяців тому +1

    I'm playing mario wonder and mario kart 8 on it with ma family, I recommend

    • @absolutely0bsolete330
      @absolutely0bsolete330 11 місяців тому

      How's the fps on both

    • @wolfwoof2000
      @wolfwoof2000 11 місяців тому +1

      @@absolutely0bsolete330 Mario kart 60 fps on tv, it's so smooth
      Mario wonder 40-60, sometimes 20 at launch. It's playable but I dislike the spikes. Once the shader processing is done there are no problem

    • @absolutely0bsolete330
      @absolutely0bsolete330 11 місяців тому

      @@wolfwoof2000 how good is tears and metroid dread?

    • @wolfwoof2000
      @wolfwoof2000 11 місяців тому

      @@absolutely0bsolete330 I haven't tested them yet. I have mario odyssey which is like mario wonder, it's smooth after 5min. And pikmin 4 is smooth but with some image problems here and there unfortunately. I think Yuzu needs more patch to be rock solid. I thin metroid and tears would have solid performances since it's popular games and more ppl to test them.

  • @Psygnosis
    @Psygnosis 10 місяців тому +2

    I picked the legion go because i have games on multiple platforms. Also i believe older gamer folks will appreciate the bigger screen because our eyesight is shite 😂

  • @ShadarThePcBuilder
    @ShadarThePcBuilder 11 місяців тому

    Great vid

  • @roque-au-parcus
    @roque-au-parcus 11 місяців тому

    Would you mind listing the games you showed in this review? Some of them look really fun but I'm don't recognize them.

  • @fpvpilot7713
    @fpvpilot7713 11 місяців тому

    Disagree. Sold two steam decks after playing games on the Ally which has better sound, 1080p, 120hz and variable refresh rate. All the games are made to run on windows so they all work on the Ally unlike the steam deck. I like the Ally screen better than the oled. Oh and the Ally is quieter.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому

      Those are all valid points. I think there's room in the market for both products to exist.

  • @raydden1210
    @raydden1210 10 місяців тому

    I want whatever looks visually better and performs better. At medium setting minimum. I aint spending money to play on low setting.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  10 місяців тому

      I don't play anything at low settings either. And at this screen size you can't really pick up the details of high and ultra anyway

  • @jericofangonilo4779
    @jericofangonilo4779 11 місяців тому

    3:15 name of keyboard brother thanks

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому

      www.lemokey.com/products/lemokey-l3-qmk-via-wireless-custom-mechanical-keyboard. Someday I'll make a video on it

  • @ruggerprogavlar8866
    @ruggerprogavlar8866 11 місяців тому

    if im at home and wanna play the bigger triple a titles like baldurs gate 3 i just stream them from my pc they actually look amazing and run great.

  • @HellSpawnRulerOfHell
    @HellSpawnRulerOfHell 11 місяців тому

    5:14 Specifically the Samsung screen.

  • @hotdognobun
    @hotdognobun 11 місяців тому

    All tech channel sounds the same now. They have to say gorgeous, premium, pop, beautiful, and Dbrand lol

    • @badmoose01
      @badmoose01 11 місяців тому +1

      Then make your own tech channel that uses different words.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +1

      I'm not big enough to say dbrand yet 😂. I'll keep a thesaurus near me next time.

  • @steaklover505
    @steaklover505 11 місяців тому

    Sorry to hear that you got rid of the ally

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +2

      Honestly if I had room in my budget for the Ally id keep it too. But since I have a gaming laptop, I found them both serving the same purpose. I plan on getting one again and covering the progress of it. It's been amazing to see the Ally transform from what it was at launch to what it is now. Really made me start to love asus more as a brand.

  • @bennytdi
    @bennytdi 10 місяців тому

    its the same Oled as the switch. what do you mean it's better? lol

  • @wingrazer7687
    @wingrazer7687 11 місяців тому

    I don’t believe anything about the Steam Deck anymore. I was thinking about getting one because all of the reviews loved it so much even the screen, battery life and console experience.
    Now the OLED comes out and it fixes all these issues that reviewers said were great before. It makes no sense to me and turned me off so I bought an Ally.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому

      Oh I 100% agree. I never reviewed the original steam deck. I never got into it.

    • @oo--7714
      @oo--7714 11 місяців тому

      Hahaha

    • @sonicandroxas
      @sonicandroxas 11 місяців тому +1

      I mean shiii at the time the sd only pc competition was 1000$ handhelds like aya neo, so i feel it was a “get what you get and don’t throw a fit” situation

  • @AnggaSihotang
    @AnggaSihotang 11 місяців тому +3

    If you are looking for a gaming handheld, buy a steamdeck oled. If you are looking for a portable gaming pc just buy….
    A gaming laptop kekw

  • @rolandmusic8846
    @rolandmusic8846 11 місяців тому

    Its a gaming console device but performance sucks

  • @CJTheTokay
    @CJTheTokay 11 місяців тому +1

    the steam deck Oled is heavier than the rog ally though...

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +1

      Oh you’re right. It’s close though. . But for whatever reason when using the steam deck it feels lighter. Maybe weight distribution

    • @fanis4093
      @fanis4093 11 місяців тому

      The limited edition is actually a bit more lighter than the other OLED models! I think it has the same weight as rog ally.

    • @CJTheTokay
      @CJTheTokay 11 місяців тому

      @@fanis4093 Interesting...I wonder why that is.

    • @superior7968
      @superior7968 11 місяців тому

      @@CJTheTokay because its different plastic lmao

  • @dontfwmaxi
    @dontfwmaxi 11 місяців тому

    ur hands are really big it looks like a switch lite on you 😂

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому

      lol. A part of it is the camera lens too. It makes things in the center look small, but things on the side wider and taller. My hands are slightly bigger than average but not as much as the footage is showing.

  • @SvGPlayer831
    @SvGPlayer831 11 місяців тому

    i also got the 1tb limited edition oled it looks so good in person, these come with the BOE display that can be overclocked to 120 hz 😎 i heard those pixel issues only occurred on the Samsung displays tho not the BOE displays

  • @mattjones3202
    @mattjones3202 11 місяців тому

    Just say you got baby hands bro.....Leigon Go all day...

  • @ivanh04
    @ivanh04 11 місяців тому

    After owning all three now for a week. ROG ally and Legion go are going back to best buy. The Steam Deck OLED is the best handled out of the 3.

    • @urboijash3955
      @urboijash3955 Місяць тому

      Same boat.. my ally x came in yesterday and I’m considering returning it this weekend

  • @WheeledHamster
    @WheeledHamster 11 місяців тому

    Would've been the one for me if it didn't have a garbage ass 800p screen., I have a Switch and 720p looks like ass.

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +1

      It’s not ideal. But a list of games struggle at even 1080p. 800p is a smooth experience and the OLED HDR screen really makes up for the lack of resolution when I was comparing all 3

    • @oo--7714
      @oo--7714 11 місяців тому

      ​​​@@consumertechwarehousepersonally I don't think so, the lower pixel density bugged me when I was playing on my steam deck, got a rog ally and man it is better. Problem is with the deck many of the times it can't even hit 800p natively, I returned need for speed unboundv on steam due to it not running at native res even on low setting at 720p/800p at 30fps. On the rog ally it hits 1080p or at least 900p and that is a big enough difference imo.

  • @The_Shock_and_Awe
    @The_Shock_and_Awe 11 місяців тому +1

    screen is great colors very beautiful but the performance is bad compared to rog ally

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +1

      I still have a gaming laptop and found that the Ally was covering a similar use case. I love HDR on the steam deck.

    • @emerald85
      @emerald85 11 місяців тому

      Gaming laptop and ally are complete two different things , gaming laptop is way bigger way more powerful than ally , with bigger screen it is less portable .

    • @superior7968
      @superior7968 11 місяців тому +1

      performance you dont use. You want performance go hop on ur rig who wants that in a handheld lmao

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +2

      Well with the ally, I found myself always needing to be plugged into a wall, which decreased the portability of it.

    • @emerald85
      @emerald85 11 місяців тому

      @@superior7968 I have deck , ally, and go. Also have a rog z13 acronym , the latter for me is the best suit , not mention the sheer power of it as well as the mobility , but also the bigger screen is much friendly to ur eyes for the longer gaming session compared to handheld . That’s just my experience.

  • @mkc93
    @mkc93 11 місяців тому

    Same old Same old, when the next generation of handheld come out, he would said that would be the best handheld out there!

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +2

      Well yeah. Lol. When the next generation comes out, it should be better.

  • @YamiSorei
    @YamiSorei 11 місяців тому +1

    You are liar! 1:43 SD OLED 640g; SD OLED LE 620-622g; ROG Ally 608g

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому

      I am. That was a mistake that someone else pointed out. The weight is kind of close though but the steam deck felt lighter in my hands. Probably the weight distribution or something. But regardless, you're right. The Ally is lighter.

  • @PabloAstudillo
    @PabloAstudillo 11 місяців тому +1

    Yeah, the steam deck is by far the worst of those 3, the other 2 blow the steamdeck out the water when it comes to power, they can play at 1080p, the ally has VRR, the lenovo actually goes up to 1660, I cant see any reason to buy a steam deck over a switch oled if you want to play at 30fps 720p (wich is the same at 800p dont delude yourself)

    • @SvGPlayer831
      @SvGPlayer831 11 місяців тому +6

      on my steam deck oled i get 3-8 hr battery life on most games tho, whats the point when you need to be plugged in all the time might as well use a pc or console lol, i get 60+ fps on most games

    • @sonicandroxas
      @sonicandroxas 11 місяців тому +4

      @@SvGPlayer831 i stand with u. Dude must love his intense AAA game 1hr sessions lol

    • @jimmydean358
      @jimmydean358 10 місяців тому

      @@sonicandroxas Now the shit is funny !!!!

  • @uliseson7895
    @uliseson7895 11 місяців тому +3

    Asus ROG Ally is better for sure.

    • @grantmitchel2810
      @grantmitchel2810 11 місяців тому +1

      If you want to deal with windows and dont mind always being plugged into an outlet our battery pack

    • @consumertechwarehouse
      @consumertechwarehouse  11 місяців тому +1

      I don't think the ROG Ally is bad. I didn't mean for this video to be controversial or anything. I use my handhelds on short bursts and think the steam deck is better for that. I prefer the Ally and would recommend it to others who are able to play more next to an outlet or is able to wait for Windows to boot up and such.

    • @MiggateNoGodku
      @MiggateNoGodku 11 місяців тому

      @@consumertechwarehousewindows boots up in 10 seconds

  • @emerald85
    @emerald85 11 місяців тому +1

    U like an only 800p capable , steam games only handheld is totally ok , don’t belittle other machines kiddo😂

    • @tlaf4367
      @tlaf4367 11 місяців тому

      Shut up you div

  • @masszero3521
    @masszero3521 11 місяців тому +4

    Steamdeck is a garbage handheld! 😂

    • @THNiggies
      @THNiggies 11 місяців тому +10

      Awww.. how cute. Maybe a gameboy 3ds is more in your price range. Nothing wrong with that

    • @spertex1107
      @spertex1107 11 місяців тому

      Yes it's but it's also good in that way

    • @richricks78
      @richricks78 11 місяців тому +2

      ​@@THNiggies🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Bruh!!! That was hilarious

    • @jebril
      @jebril 10 місяців тому

      Without the SD the Ally and the GO wouldn’t even exist.