pretty controversial take tbh, neko, piper, lucy is way better than you seem to give them credit for, all piper needs to do is her ex skill channel to trigger 2 assaults, lucy barely takes field time for her buff and to give neko her damage talent through the quick assist. The amount of stacking buffs in that team is pretty unreal and it outpaces any other option we have right now
Oh, it certainly is a fine team to be played. The question being, why add piper to the team for more assaults and 18% dmg bonus if you can use a stunner instead and gain 50+% dmg bonus more often. If we talk about Piper, yea, she is very good, but if we want to have a team focussed on Neko, Piper does not do as much *for neko* as a dedicated stunner does.
@@iamrivenous But is your math taking into account the stun bonus assault gives? When I watch runs of teams with Piper instead of a "stunner", she seems to stun almost as - if not just as - fast as a "stun" character...
@@benjamink2398 you'd want to build Piper with the anomaly stats, which means she will stun much slower than stun units built to stun. Stun units also have better multipliers and daze buffs. You may not feel the difference in early game but as your stun unit gets better, the difference becomes quite obvious. Also stun is a damage multiplier, not an additive buff like dmg%. Piper's 18% dmg + Neko's 35% (only for the first ex skill) are nothing compared to the stun multiplier, especially when Neko herself already has a huge dmg% buff from passive and slot 5 disc. It's just too little gain to run Piper compared to the huge dps loss of having no stun unit.
22 дні тому
@iamrivenous didn't CN rank neko piper Lucy as best neko team ? It's on bilibili and they tiered teams based on ton of data and tc with sheets for a lot of teams.
Sadly if you dont have an additional stunner at all, im pretty sure Neko Piper Lucy is one of the best team currently. The playstyle youd go for though, is more Piper on field and Neko playing a more bursty playstyle, only focusing on EX during break or assault (preferably with her core buff too). Its not as bad as youd think since assault is a very op anomaly.
You have Anby by default in which case I would probably go with Neko, Anby, Piper as a team. However if you have either Koleda or Lycaon, IMO going for Neko/Lyc/Soukaku or Neko/Koleda/Lucy respectively is the better choice. It sheets better at least, but tbf, TCing this game is pretty freaking hard, there is a lot to take into account.
@@iamrivenous can I ask why Anby instead of Lucy in this case? Also what about neko team without a stunner? Since I'm currently using Anby with Ellen team (no dog 😭😭😭)
@@iamrivenous Sheeting better is meaningless, see my other comment. Play Neko + Piper and you will see that Physical Anomaly teams are not only viable, but optimal in a real world scenario.
I'm surprised to see R5 Cannon Rotor behind R5 Starlight! I haven't been able to test this myself, but I've heard that the 200% bonus hit from Cannon Rotor counts as physical DMG%, so Neko is unique in that she can buff that extra damage through her Passive / Drive 5. Is this part of your calcs or something you haven't considered yet?
Best guide out there! Love the detailed math comparisons to show relative importance of damage distribution and relic/weapon priority. Really helps F2P figure out where to put limited resources into :) Tons of the initial guides were promoting leveling dodge as the priority without any math.
Glad it was helpful! Dodge can be more important if you basically play her on-field most of the time, but you dont't have to, well, cant actually, dodge if the enemy is stunned.
I'm a day 1 M1 + sig weapon Nekomiya player. If you look at any of the other Nekomiya mains out there and all the clips online, you'll easily see that Nekomiya's strongest and most common pairing is with Piper. Assault spam instead of stun comps was already a thing in CBT, before Piper was introduced. With Piper introduced, it's 100% viable to use Physical Anomaly over stun, especially since Piper stacks it at an insanely fast rate. You can run Nekomiya + Piper + Lucy to consistently proc Nekomiya's passive, or run Nekomiya + Piper + [stunner] in a Disorder comp. These comps are less Nekomiya hypercarry, but greater DPS overall. The problem with theorycrafting this game is that all your hypothetical spreadshet rotations are wrong the instant you're forced to dodge or parry even once. And unlike WuWa, ZZZ encounters are generally multiwave and multimob, making "optimal rotations" simply not a viable thing. E.g. Every stunner's daze percentages are backloaded onto their last attacks, which means there's no way you're ever going to get 100% clean theorycraft level rotations in an actual fight. Some very important things you don't mention about Nekomiya. 1. Like in Genshin, Physical is evergreen, with no enemies resistant to it. This means it will never be the worst choice, sometimes the best choice, and otherwise the second best choice team. This means since you need 2 teams for end game, you can never go wrong building a Physical team. 2. Nekomiya's best teams are all built around AOE. Zhu Yuan is entirely single target. Nekomiya's ult not only has the largest radius out of all the ults in the game, but it also has a built-in grouping effect which drags enemies hit by the ult toward a center point, making your following inherently AOE basic attacks even easier to land. 3. Nekomiya's built-in dash on her basic attack chain is there to let her reposition in order to gain her backstab damage bonus, as well as let her avoid damage without having to actually dodge. Along with her passive granting her damage bonus on dodging, her kit lets her stay on field more than DPS units who would rather parry swap, netting her a larger personal damage phase window. One last thing. Thanks for calling her by her name instead of Nekomata -- that's a nickname (and a twin tailed demon from Japanese folklore). One note on pronunciation: Japanese has very consistent and simple pronunciation. On the vowel sounds, it's identical to Spanish. Neko rhymes with pet, bet, met, feather, leather -- not meet, greet, neat, beat.
You are right, it is indeed a viable comp, however, I wanted to focus more on a "How can we build a team around Nekomiya" and less on a "which teams can nekomiya ve used in". One of pipers best teammates is indeed nekomiya, but Piper is not one of the best teammates for Neko - at least in regards to supporting Nekos Kit. A Piper Team is assault and/or disorder focused, whereas a Nekomiya team CAN be build around assault, but is usually burst-oriented. Which is where I come from. Regarding your second point, all my ZZZ calcs contain Dodge Counters as well as Parries. For some characters more (Grace, due to on-field time outside of stun windows), for some less (neko, if played on a burst-styled team), although that depends on the team, usually I draw an average if there are multiple teams available. But I do agree, that TCing this game is extremely difficult and can never be 100% accurate (which tbf it wont be in most games). But it is the closest we can do to get an idea about best weapons, disk drives etc. However, thank you for your comment and I will think about including multiple playstyles in future videos!
You're wrong about enemies having no physical resistance. Stage 10 of Shiyu Defense's first boss is resistant to physical which made it sad because I had to use my Ellen team to kill it instead of taking advantage of the ice weakness on the other side. I've been running Neko + piper with Nicole and I think she fits the last slot nicely. I didn't get Piper's sig so I didn't build her. Nicole actually has decent anomaly build up and her defense shred makes assault procs hit harder. Also most of the hardest ZZZ encounters are just single target. Some of them will spawn some mobs but most of the time you're fighting a single enemy.
I've just been using Lycaon for stun and Corin built for anomoly instead of damage. At least until I get piper (400 rolls and still no piper). And even that until future characters like Jane Doe.
Late to the party but came to type this. I've come to the conclusion they may have once intended Corin to be an anomaly character but realized her just dropping into the chain attack, explode the Assault, and then dive into Nekomata combos would've been too powerful. Like it doesn't work perfect but it feels incredibly fun to play with Neko self sufficiency, Lycaon ruining whatever stun bar nekomata didn't, and forgoing Corin's main weakness: Having to stand still for what feels like a million years for damage in lieu of the ultimate spam
Btw if you have Piper M1 and know how to shorcut her skill she only needs 3-4 seconds after 1st rotation to maintain her stacks and her skill is Quick swappable too. Is 3-4 seconds of Quick swap too much field time? Shortcut - Basic - Hold skill - Quick swap
Yay! Nekomata is my main for now, thanks for the guide 🙏🏽 I’m finding ZZZ combat way more visually confusing than wuwa, if you have a chance could you fit in some basic visual prompts into your guide? What does an enemy look like when it’s stunned? Can I see if the enemy has assault on it? How long after the words assault flash on the screen can nekomata benefit from the enemy being assaulted? 😅
Can anyone explaine me about pen ratio on 5 and puffer set? How will it work if with this priorities on substats we will only have 8% pen rate from set and some % from 5 piece, and flat pen is last in prio list? Pen ratio is a chance to go through enemy's armor, and flat pen is amount of armor being ignored when pen procs. How can it be better that phys% dmg and, for example, 8% crit rate and 27% atk% from 4 piece woodpecker?
Definitely not B tier, soldier 11, neko, and grace are incredibly strong and the only one currrently above that is ellen. Just build her and learn how to play her.
pretty controversial take tbh, neko, piper, lucy is way better than you seem to give them credit for, all piper needs to do is her ex skill channel to trigger 2 assaults, lucy barely takes field time for her buff and to give neko her damage talent through the quick assist. The amount of stacking buffs in that team is pretty unreal and it outpaces any other option we have right now
Oh, it certainly is a fine team to be played. The question being, why add piper to the team for more assaults and 18% dmg bonus if you can use a stunner instead and gain 50+% dmg bonus more often. If we talk about Piper, yea, she is very good, but if we want to have a team focussed on Neko, Piper does not do as much *for neko* as a dedicated stunner does.
@@iamrivenous But is your math taking into account the stun bonus assault gives? When I watch runs of teams with Piper instead of a "stunner", she seems to stun almost as - if not just as - fast as a "stun" character...
@@benjamink2398 Yes it is taken into account
@@benjamink2398 you'd want to build Piper with the anomaly stats, which means she will stun much slower than stun units built to stun. Stun units also have better multipliers and daze buffs. You may not feel the difference in early game but as your stun unit gets better, the difference becomes quite obvious.
Also stun is a damage multiplier, not an additive buff like dmg%. Piper's 18% dmg + Neko's 35% (only for the first ex skill) are nothing compared to the stun multiplier, especially when Neko herself already has a huge dmg% buff from passive and slot 5 disc. It's just too little gain to run Piper compared to the huge dps loss of having no stun unit.
@iamrivenous didn't CN rank neko piper Lucy as best neko team ? It's on bilibili and they tiered teams based on ton of data and tc with sheets for a lot of teams.
Awesome!
I've been waiting for a guide for her
Having a C6 Keqing Main in Genshin it was great having her pop as my first S rank. Love the speed from her.
I like how there was all the intentional puns but also the unintentional "We will cover her -Kit-".
Sadly if you dont have an additional stunner at all, im pretty sure Neko Piper Lucy is one of the best team currently. The playstyle youd go for though, is more Piper on field and Neko playing a more bursty playstyle, only focusing on EX during break or assault (preferably with her core buff too). Its not as bad as youd think since assault is a very op anomaly.
You have Anby by default in which case I would probably go with Neko, Anby, Piper as a team. However if you have either Koleda or Lycaon, IMO going for Neko/Lyc/Soukaku or Neko/Koleda/Lucy respectively is the better choice. It sheets better at least, but tbf, TCing this game is pretty freaking hard, there is a lot to take into account.
@@iamrivenous can I ask why Anby instead of Lucy in this case? Also what about neko team without a stunner? Since I'm currently using Anby with Ellen team (no dog 😭😭😭)
@@iamrivenous Sheeting better is meaningless, see my other comment. Play Neko + Piper and you will see that Physical Anomaly teams are not only viable, but optimal in a real world scenario.
I'm surprised to see R5 Cannon Rotor behind R5 Starlight! I haven't been able to test this myself, but I've heard that the 200% bonus hit from Cannon Rotor counts as physical DMG%, so Neko is unique in that she can buff that extra damage through her Passive / Drive 5. Is this part of your calcs or something you haven't considered yet?
That is actually valuable info, the Cannon Rotor Effect is currently typeless in my calcs. Thank you, I will have a look at this!
Best guide out there! Love the detailed math comparisons to show relative importance of damage distribution and relic/weapon priority. Really helps F2P figure out where to put limited resources into :) Tons of the initial guides were promoting leveling dodge as the priority without any math.
Glad it was helpful! Dodge can be more important if you basically play her on-field most of the time, but you dont't have to, well, cant actually, dodge if the enemy is stunned.
I'm a day 1 M1 + sig weapon Nekomiya player. If you look at any of the other Nekomiya mains out there and all the clips online, you'll easily see that Nekomiya's strongest and most common pairing is with Piper. Assault spam instead of stun comps was already a thing in CBT, before Piper was introduced. With Piper introduced, it's 100% viable to use Physical Anomaly over stun, especially since Piper stacks it at an insanely fast rate. You can run Nekomiya + Piper + Lucy to consistently proc Nekomiya's passive, or run Nekomiya + Piper + [stunner] in a Disorder comp. These comps are less Nekomiya hypercarry, but greater DPS overall.
The problem with theorycrafting this game is that all your hypothetical spreadshet rotations are wrong the instant you're forced to dodge or parry even once. And unlike WuWa, ZZZ encounters are generally multiwave and multimob, making "optimal rotations" simply not a viable thing. E.g. Every stunner's daze percentages are backloaded onto their last attacks, which means there's no way you're ever going to get 100% clean theorycraft level rotations in an actual fight.
Some very important things you don't mention about Nekomiya. 1. Like in Genshin, Physical is evergreen, with no enemies resistant to it. This means it will never be the worst choice, sometimes the best choice, and otherwise the second best choice team. This means since you need 2 teams for end game, you can never go wrong building a Physical team. 2. Nekomiya's best teams are all built around AOE. Zhu Yuan is entirely single target. Nekomiya's ult not only has the largest radius out of all the ults in the game, but it also has a built-in grouping effect which drags enemies hit by the ult toward a center point, making your following inherently AOE basic attacks even easier to land. 3. Nekomiya's built-in dash on her basic attack chain is there to let her reposition in order to gain her backstab damage bonus, as well as let her avoid damage without having to actually dodge. Along with her passive granting her damage bonus on dodging, her kit lets her stay on field more than DPS units who would rather parry swap, netting her a larger personal damage phase window.
One last thing. Thanks for calling her by her name instead of Nekomata -- that's a nickname (and a twin tailed demon from Japanese folklore). One note on pronunciation: Japanese has very consistent and simple pronunciation. On the vowel sounds, it's identical to Spanish. Neko rhymes with pet, bet, met, feather, leather -- not meet, greet, neat, beat.
You are right, it is indeed a viable comp, however, I wanted to focus more on a "How can we build a team around Nekomiya" and less on a "which teams can nekomiya ve used in". One of pipers best teammates is indeed nekomiya, but Piper is not one of the best teammates for Neko - at least in regards to supporting Nekos Kit. A Piper Team is assault and/or disorder focused, whereas a Nekomiya team CAN be build around assault, but is usually burst-oriented. Which is where I come from.
Regarding your second point, all my ZZZ calcs contain Dodge Counters as well as Parries. For some characters more (Grace, due to on-field time outside of stun windows), for some less (neko, if played on a burst-styled team), although that depends on the team, usually I draw an average if there are multiple teams available.
But I do agree, that TCing this game is extremely difficult and can never be 100% accurate (which tbf it wont be in most games). But it is the closest we can do to get an idea about best weapons, disk drives etc.
However, thank you for your comment and I will think about including multiple playstyles in future videos!
You're wrong about enemies having no physical resistance. Stage 10 of Shiyu Defense's first boss is resistant to physical which made it sad because I had to use my Ellen team to kill it instead of taking advantage of the ice weakness on the other side.
I've been running Neko + piper with Nicole and I think she fits the last slot nicely. I didn't get Piper's sig so I didn't build her. Nicole actually has decent anomaly build up and her defense shred makes assault procs hit harder.
Also most of the hardest ZZZ encounters are just single target. Some of them will spawn some mobs but most of the time you're fighting a single enemy.
saying "day 1 player" when the game has been out for 6 days is just funny to me
@@chaschas I say it because CCs regularly make guides for characters they don’t even play.
@@araarashinigami yeah no i didn't have an issue or wasn't trying to call you out, it was just funny
10/10 thumbnail lmao
I've just been using Lycaon for stun and Corin built for anomoly instead of damage. At least until I get piper (400 rolls and still no piper). And even that until future characters like Jane Doe.
Late to the party but came to type this. I've come to the conclusion they may have once intended Corin to be an anomaly character but realized her just dropping into the chain attack, explode the Assault, and then dive into Nekomata combos would've been too powerful. Like it doesn't work perfect but it feels incredibly fun to play with Neko self sufficiency, Lycaon ruining whatever stun bar nekomata didn't, and forgoing Corin's main weakness: Having to stand still for what feels like a million years for damage in lieu of the ultimate spam
3 puns, 3 shots.
Can you plz add disks images in build section, would be easier to comprehend
I didnt want her but unfortunately i got her
Same I lost my 50/50…
Can I have her
Gimme.
@FuFu-xuan bro I wish. Only if I could trade for grace or soldier 11 tho
What about Starlight Engine Replica weapon?
Waiting for koleda guide bro
Btw if you have Piper M1 and know how to shorcut her skill she only needs 3-4 seconds after 1st rotation to maintain her stacks and her skill is Quick swappable too. Is 3-4 seconds of Quick swap too much field time? Shortcut - Basic - Hold skill - Quick swap
what is the short cut?
Is Housekeeper weapon bad?
Playing her with amby and soukaku
Yay! Nekomata is my main for now, thanks for the guide 🙏🏽 I’m finding ZZZ combat way more visually confusing than wuwa, if you have a chance could you fit in some basic visual prompts into your guide? What does an enemy look like when it’s stunned? Can I see if the enemy has assault on it? How long after the words assault flash on the screen can nekomata benefit from the enemy being assaulted? 😅
why is neko not very synergistic with nicole?
Can anyone explaine me about pen ratio on 5 and puffer set? How will it work if with this priorities on substats we will only have 8% pen rate from set and some % from 5 piece, and flat pen is last in prio list? Pen ratio is a chance to go through enemy's armor, and flat pen is amount of armor being ignored when pen procs. How can it be better that phys% dmg and, for example, 8% crit rate and 27% atk% from 4 piece woodpecker?
Pen Ratio is not a chance, it flat out ignores 8% of the enemy defense. Flat Pen is just a flat amount substracted.
(EnemyDEF * 1-PenRatio) - FlatPen
@@iamrivenous thanks, it makes sense now
Soldier 11 next pls!! with her 4* teammates too caz i don't have many 5* caz f2p
@guobauncertified has a guide for her, check his out! I wont do S11 for a while
@@iamrivenous alright i'll check it out thanks
I honestly said cute cat girl with a play style built around dodging and speed, looks so cool, and chose to main her.. am I cooked
You mixed up main stats and corresponding slots of disks, great guide otherwise.
Can I use brimstone for her?
Yes
Anton BUILD PLS
Me too. I somehow have him at C4
zyox ahh thumbnail
literally my 1st thought
Damn why are zenless videos doing so bad 😢
I got her today. Immediately saw that she is a B tier character in terms of strength. Kind of sad I got her but it is what it is.
Definitely not B tier, soldier 11, neko, and grace are incredibly strong and the only one currrently above that is ellen. Just build her and learn how to play her.