Yamaha YEP-321 Euphonium: Why So Popular? | Instrument Reviews
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- Please consider supporting the Samuel Plays Brass channel on Patreon at: / samuelplaysbrass
The Yamaha YEP-321 is perhaps the most well-known intermediate euphonium on the low brass market. It is slightly smaller in terms of dimensions and tubing size than most professional instruments and features four inline pistons (not compensating). Today, on Scholastic Brass Month, we talk about what this instrument brings to the table as a 'scholastic' instrument. You can learn more about the YEP-321 here: usa.yamaha.com/products/music...
~CHAPTERS~
0:00 Opening remarks
2:01 Features & specs
3:50 How does it play?
6:38 The mouthpiece dilemma
8:55 How does it sound?
10:29 My verdict...
12:47 Closing remarks
~EQUIPMENT~
Yamaha YEP-321S silver-plated, four-valve, non-compensating euphonium
Yamaha SL-48S (model 48) & Schilke 51D small-shank mouthpieces
~SOCIALS~
Sheet Music Store: samuelplaysbrass.creator-spri...
Website: sammorozov.wixsite.com/samuel...
Instagram: @samuelplaysbrass ( / samuelplaysbrass )
Facebook: Samuel Plays Brass ( / samuelplaysbrass )
~BACKGROUND MUSIC~
Morning Routine by Ghostrifter Official | / ghostrifter-official
Music promoted by www.chosic.com/free-music/all/
Creative Commons CC BY-SA 3.0
creativecommons.org/licenses/...
~ABOUT SAMUEL PLAYS BRASS~
Do you enjoy content relating to all things music and brass instruments? Sam has got you covered! On this channel we have been devoted to bringing you brass covers, play-alongs, multitracks, gear reviews and discussions, tips and tricks, collaborations, and even vlogs about the music world since 2016! Sam is a hobbyist brass multi-instrumentalist majoring in mechanical engineering. He is an active local performer and has played countless personal arrangements and compositions in small ensemble settings. If you like to nerd out over brass instruments, mouthpieces, music theory, and more, then make sure to subscribe and stay tuned! Thanks for watching.
#euphonium #review #backtoschool
It’s euphonium time! Hope you enjoy this review. Do me a favor and leave a comment with any feedback or critiques about the lighting change in this video. I tried something subtly different from my usual low-effort setup.
Changing out the Yamaha 48 is the best move I’ve made with my students. The 321 is a great horn and while a “student horn” anyone with good breath support can produce a really nice tone. If only it had a larger receiver to move up to a large shank mouthpiece.
One of these days I need to slice open a Yamaha 48 and see what it is that makes it such a poor choice for just about any trombone, baritone, or euphonium. It’s astonishing that a supposed Bach 6-1/2AL copy could be so far off the mark. Anyhow, as you said, that receiver is also my biggest gripe with what is otherwise a really great instrument.
Last purchased my first Yamaha 321 euphonium this past year and so proud of it as i do my first valve trombone which is a Jupiter
I wasn’t aware you were branching outside of the trumpet family, Henry. Very cool.
I have had the 321 for 10 years.. it has been a great friend!
Glad to hear it’s worked well for you!
Great video Samuel!🤗👍👍
Thank you!
Thank you for giving it a fair and honest review! I bought the 321S as my first owned horn Senior year of high school in 1999 after playing the school's 321 and a random bell-front garbage horn for my first 3-4 years. I started on a 12C and then a 48. When I bought my horn I moved to a 51D and was a staunch advocate for it ever since. I planned to major in Music Ed. but it didn't work out for me, but I've been playing with local groups for the last 20 years after university and the 321 has been great for me. I got a lot of crap from my peers for not having a compensating horn, and had I known more when I bought my horn, I might have gone with one, but the price was right for the 321. I'm looking at Dennis Wick 4AY just to see if I can get a richer sound. Euphonium literacy needs to be a higher point in all band programs and even just better starting mouthpieces will go a long way. Keep fighting the good fight and thanks again for not immediately dismissing a non-compensating horn. :)
Thanks for your comment! Glad you also had some luck with the 51D! I honestly doubt that the 4AY would do you much better. It’s a slightly wider inner diameter but the cup is if anything a little shallower. If you can find the fairly uncommon 52E2 on a small shank, that might be about as good as it gets. I use one on a large shank for my euphonium. Although it is important to consider that ‘2’ rim contour-it’s certainly unusual, and much less flat than most are used to!
I think your point about euphonium literacy is so true. Better part writing, encouraging kids to play it instead of just bumping the worst trumpet players down to it, and yes, better mouthpieces too. So, so very important. It sucks that “baritones” have such a lousy rep in beginning band.
Nice video Samuel!
A couple of 321 thoughts I had…
First, the 321 has made a lot of money for trombone players. There are many orchestral players who have one of these for playing tenor tuba parts in the orchestra. Also, many studio trombone players use these as well.
Some players choose to add an add in rotor valve that works like a tuba fifth valve and solves the low b issue. I’m not sure if anyone is still making them but you see them pop up from time to time.
I forgot whos making them, But I saw one of the European (I think?) euphonium makers are introducing a model with the 5th valve
@@battleship217you’re thinking of Adams. However, the Adams 5th valve works more like a bass trombone Gb valve and is on a 3+1 instrument. While the 5th valve add-on some put on the 321 is more like a tuba fifth valve with the flat whole tone rotor.
Thanks Zach! I see how this instrument could be useful for trombonists (I alluded to the tenor tuba in this video because I’d seen it used for that purpose). I think I know of the Stauffer valve, if that’s what you’re talking about.
I like the concept of the Adams 5-valve being built with bass trombone tuning on the 4th and 5th, but when working with valves rather than a continuous slide, I do think the tuba-style 5th is more useful for fixing some of the inherent intonation issues of the non-compensating system.
Didn’t expect you here
Wow, this is obviously your passion! Found your vid as I'm considering getting a 321 for my 8th grader. They're becoming a more serious player. The used YEP321s I'm finding online are all only a few hundred below the new price. Any recommendations for reputable used sellers? Thanks!
Thanks for your comment! That’s bizarre-when I do a quick search of the model number on Ebay I find quite a few in the $800-1200 range. Ebay tends to be where I get most of my used instruments.
FWIW I play a YEP 321S it is the second brand new instrument I have had in my life. My first was a Besson 220 Cornet. I am 73 year old come back player . Played in school graduated in 1970. Picked up music again in 2009. I was using a Schilke 51D and have since moved to. Schilke 52D2. I can get a wider range from the 52D2. Being a former Cornet/trumpet player I play and read both BC &TC..
Very pleased width my 321S … the only serious intonation issue I have is a C# (TC) B in (BC) is way sharp. I have a work around where I use the 2nd & 4th valve and move the 4th valve slide so the intonation is much closer. After that I attempt to lip it to pitch. If I have sufficient air it works.
Thank you for your thoughts. Congratulations on returning to playing! The concert B is extremely troublesome on many euphoniums. For the non-comp. ones, it sits very sharp, as you described. Meanwhile, on my John Packer JP-274, it sits incredibly flat! You can imagine the amount of times I almost pulled my hair out in wind ensemble, where my sectionmates were using 321s.
I’m curious, though-I’ve never heard of a 52D2. Only a 52D and a 52E2. I think both are excellent mouthpieces, preferable over the 51D for those with thicker lips and those who desire the warmest tone possible, but are you sure it’s a 52D2 you’re using? Is it possible that the piece was a one-off or a custom order by a previous owner?
I played a 321 with a beginning band a while ago. it is a good euphonium for doublers between euphonium and trombone.
Low Brass U said the same thing. I could see that being the case for sure.
I played a 201 in high school because it was the best instrument the school provided. I knew nothing about non compensating/ compensating euphoniums with four valves. I sounded pretty good on the 201 playing on a Schilke 51D and by senior year on a schilke 53 gold plated mouthpiece. I played the 321 in college for two years and the tone I produced was miles better than on the 201 with the Schilke 53GP mouthpiece.
Have you ever seen or heard of a King three valve silver plated euphonium?
I really appreciate the detailed insight on the 201/321. Glad to know the latter worked better for you. How’s the cup on the Schilke 53? Shallower than a 51D or not so much?
When you say three-valved King what comes to mind is the Diplomat model. Never tried it. It looks like a similar wrap to the King 623 Diplomat baritone horn (although the latter has saxhorn-style tuning before the valve section). I really disliked the 623, especially compared to the more open-wrap model 627 baritone with forward-facing valves. With that said, anything with a saxhorn-style tuning slide between the leadpipe and valve section feels stuffy and unresponsive to me.
I think the 53 had a wider rim and slightly smaller cup than the 51D… it helped with keeping the high range in tune… I don’t know the model number or name of that king silver plated euphonium because it was a section mate’s in high school. I think it was a intermediate/proline king. It definitely had maybe an 11.625” bell on it. It had a nice euphonium sound
@@benjaminfraser2535 I just can’t think of any three-valve euphonium that would be professional level and have that large of a bell… you’re sure it only had three?
I have a trouble i think only you can answer. I love the cornet but hate the mouthpiece. I can only comfortably play trumpet mouthpieces. But i cant find an adapter. What should i do?
Hey Louie, thanks for your comment. I am curious to know what sort of cornet mouthpieces you have tried to play on up to this point. If you are based in the UK and being told to use things like a Denis Wick 2, I can definitely understand your struggle. In the US it is pretty commonplace to find cornet mouthpieces that are basically trumpet cups on a narrower stem, so that should eliminate the trouble for you if you're able to find one you like. I'm sure even a lot of UK stores should have them, even if they encourage their cornetists to play on more traditional equipment.
The reason there are only "cornet mouthpiece to trumpet" adapters and not "trumpet mouthpiece to cornet" ones is because the cornet takes a narrower stem or shank than the trumpet, meaning you can't stick a wider trumpet stem into a narrower cornet receiver. With that said, a Bach 3C cornet mouthpiece is going to be the same general idea as a Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece, just with that narrower stem.
If you're looking for a cornet mouthpiece more similar to your trumpet setup (i.e. shallower cup, thicker rim, smaller throat), there are quite a number of sizes and brands you can try out. Of course Bach/Blessing make some of the most well-known ones in sizes like 3C/5C/7C, but there are also Schilke, the Curry TC line, the Denis Wick "Ultra" line, and Karl Hammond that feature cornet mouthpieces that aren't total birdbaths.
Now, as a last piece of unsolicited advice, do keep in mind that these 'trumpet cups on cornet stems' will start to rob your cornet of its cornet tone if you're not careful. The cornet can only sound so 'cornet-like' on a shallow-cupped mouthpiece. I am usually an advocate for deeper mouthpieces (e.g. my Denis Wick 2B, Yamaha 16E, etc.) but I do understand that every player is different, and if you find you really have trouble keeping the pitch up or finding enough endurance on those deeper cups, there are plenty of options out there that should make cornet playing a little easier (i.e. more similar to trumpet playing) for you. Hope this helps somewhat!
Excellent review Sam. I especially appreciated your discussion of how and why your views changed over time.
There are 3 versions of the YEP-321. The originals were the only 4-valve euphonium offered by Yamaha before 1985/6 timeframe, and are truly remarkable instruments - though still mouthpiece sensitive. The 1986 instruments marked a move of production to China, and can be recognized by the flat rather than rounded knurling on the valve caps. The third, current, generation is what you reviewed.
I too cannot stand that Yamaha 48. Something is just not right about that. I prefer a Schilke 53 myself.
Adding Amado keys to 2nd and 3rd is easily worth the investment!
Thanks very much Ron. I’ve had a greater “personal journey” in reckoning with this horn than most, so I figured some extra anecdotal material was worth it.
I ended up recording a clip on both GU’s “gen. 1” 321 and this one for comparison’s sake, and I think that’ll make for a good additional video, but listening back, I unfortunately can’t hear too much of a difference. The information you left in this comment is a big help, though, considering the lack of information about Yamaha’s history online.
I played a 1st generation YEP-321 7th-12th grade, and it was a great instrument to grow up with. I'm looking forward to the review comparing it with the 3rd generation, especially with regard to valves. I recall the valves being more precisely finished than those in my modern YBH-621 baritone, and am curious whether Yamaha has made general design/quality changes to its brass instruments.
@@jasonevans662 Hi Jason, I unfortunately cannot make a total 1:1 comparison of the mechanics of gen. 1 and 3, because the former has stood up to (likely) decades of abuse, whereas the latter is almost brand new. The valves on the gen. 1 were heavy, slow, and rather percussive sounding.
Also, as an aside, some Yamaha instruments made in the 70s (hopefully not as late as the 80s) suffer from poor valve action because Yamaha tried (and almost unanimously failed, from what I hear) to reinvent the wheel and come up with their own alloy for valves instead of the industry standard of monel. This new alloy turned out to be highly reactive with players' bodily fluids, forming black deposits and causing the valves to stick constantly. Ryan in brass band has this issue on his Schilke MII cornet that was made with a Yamaha valve block. In his case it's bad enough that he's looking to buy a different cornet, and I can attest that his valves stick at every rehearsal and concert. I can't tell if GU's first-gen 321 suffers this same curse, as the valves look fine for the most part, but I wouldn't be surprised.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Interesting! Mine was probably made in the 70s (bought it used from someone who stored it for years after finishing high school), and after a few years the valve plating started flaking off. We eventually sent the valves off to be re-plated. After that the valves required near-daily cleaning to work smoothly, but at least they worked.
The thing I've noticed about modern Yamaha valves is rough seams between the main cylinder and the air passages. Aside from looking sloppy, I would expect this to negatively impact lubrication, and possibly air flow (turbulence).
I have 5 of these euphoniums also pre 1986 model with metal valve guides. On two of these I replaced mouthpiece receiver to a large shank type so can use bigger mouthpieces. I like Steven Mead SM4X.
Five?! Wow. I have to ask, how do you convert from a small to large shank if the leadpipe opening is not the same thickness? By the way, I used to use the SM4X on my personal euphonium but ultimately ended up on a straight SM4 because I preferred its sound. Now it's between the SM4 and a Schilke 52E2.
I ordered seperate Besson receivers. I had to adjust them a little bit, they were actually smaller on the end were they fit on the leadpipe! I read about this on the tuba forum, it is done a lot by tuba players who double on euphonium. I actually play SM4XR but I also tried SM3 and SM3X and SM5XR.
The more expensive Yep 621 has standard a big shank receiver, so buying a complete leadpipe from this model can also bring this solution.
Can you do a video of the different of a euphonium and a marching euphonium
May I ask a question, is there a big difference between the yep-621 and the yep-321? Tks!
Having never played the YEP-621, I can unfortunately only read manufacturer specifications and speculate. However, here is my impression:
Because the 621 is a 3+1 valve system (4th valve in the left hand as opposed to the inline 4 system on the 321), its 4th valve bore is much larger than that of the 321. I suspect this would translate to a clearer and fuller low register. I also have a brass specialist friend who does claim that the 321 and 621 respond a little differently.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thank you very much for your patience, it's very comprehensive and detailed, and helps me a lot as I'm struggling to decide whether to buy a 621 or a 321!
Don’t forget if you see a Holton 4 valve euph, within the turn of of the century (23 years) it’s the same horn by Yamaha made for Holton before they decided to go to Brazil (Weirl). Just a little trim change and a darker die in the lacquer ,same bore and brass material. For a lot less price then the Yamaha. Just a tip for beginners out there.
Interesting and rather confusing. Good to know though.
What are the best places to find used instruments? Thanks.
Ebay and Facebook Marketplace have been gold mines for me.
Hi, i currently have a school owned yamaha 321 and no one is suprised. Im a senior in highschool and i want to know what euphonium i could get myself at a good price. Ive looked at the besson 165 at 1800 and the wessex dolce at 1600. I would like to find a jp274 but idk where to find any.
You pretty much laid out all your options at that budget in your comment. A student model or heavily used Besson, a Jinbao stencil (Wessex, Mack Brass, Schiller, Jean Baptiste), or a Sterling clone (JP-274, Dillon, ACB Doubler). The last category is my personal favorite by a wide margin for 'bang versus buck.' If you search up the 274 there are quite a few online from retailers like Reverb, Pro Winds, DF Music, even ACB.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass wow okay, thank you. Time to start the hunt
Might be buying a 321 in a couple days here. Thank you for reviewing the horn. Please consider getting a higher quality mic to do justice to your playing.
Thanks for your comment, Nick! I usually record with a Shure SM57 nowadays-just didn’t have it with me that particular day. Long story.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Right on. I ended up purchasing the horn, and a Schilke 51D on your recommendation in this video.
Awesome video! Miss your euph stuff.
1. I think the new lighting looks cool but I like the old lighting too.
2. Sounds like a good instrument but you can get a jp274 for alot cheaper and I wouldn’t know anyone who’d choose to spend the extra money even if Yamaha is a more reputable company
Thanks! I’ll probably still be trying a few different things lighting-wise but good to know this variant wasn’t a complete flop.
The trouble with the JP-274 is the cost has inflated to about $2400 retail. You’re lucky to ever find a used one for much less. Meanwhile, sure, the YEP-321 has a higher retail value, but on the other hand, you can ALWAYS find them on the used market for well under the JP’s retail. My personal choice is the JP, but there’s a reason the 321 is so popular to this day.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass oh wow didn’t realise how high the price got. It’s Still £1000 In England for the lacquered one
@@nyancs7098 lucky… I guess it’s now a regional/cultural thing LOL
@@SamuelPlaysBrass I’m guessing the prices to import them got higher
As a euphonium player I have a 321 as a backup instrument. As a backup it is solid. The build quality is very good and with a sm4u for baritone really mellows it out soundwise. The thing that bugs me the most is the way the 4th valve is positioned. It is not comfortable for me. Otherwise, i find it solid.
I forgot about the SM-series baritone mouthpieces! That’s a really good idea, probably more so than the DW4AY or Bach 5G. I did find the Schilke 51D to pretty much be the magical touch but I’ll be on the hunt for an SM4U if I ever need to play small-shank euphonium for whatever reason.
I also prefer the left-hand 4th. I really like using my left middle finger. Just way stronger, faster, and more consistent than my right pinky.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass The DW 4AY is actually a very good mouthpiece as well. I do find a little bit more brilliance (overtones maybe?) with the AY, and more bass frequencies (undertones?) with the smu.
how many total instruments do you have?
Many, but most of the ones I’ve reviewed recently are ones that don’t belong to me.
Ugh, that Yamaha 48 is cursed, in my Freshman year of HS I was wondering why my tone in concert band just sucked no matter how hard I tried to get a nice euph sound. I was able to get a better sound on my Yamaha Marching bari then I did on my YEP-321
I agree. It’s just a bizarrely bad-sounding mouthpiece. What were you using on the baritone?
@@SamuelPlaysBrassI had my YBH-301MS paired with a System Blue Euphonium mouthpiece, it’s a pretty solid fit for the bari
Yamaha do make their 51D tho, even a variation EP51D specifically for euphonium, wonder why it's not coming with their euphoniums
I’m pretty sure the one euphonium at my school has one of these. We have 12 euphoniums but one euphonium player 😭😭😭
That’s a bizarre problem to have… I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of a school having too many instruments.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass and yet we dont have enough mellows for everyone:(
@@SamuelPlaysBrass We have 3 bassoonists at my school and 13 bassoons. All student models except the one I was assigned. Last year I was the only bassoonist.
Ah yes, my favorite intermediate euph
I got first chair in tmea all region in middle school with this Euph. Ah the memories
@@Jarhead-ji3lq Good stuff man! This one is a close second for me after the rather bigger King 2280, I think, but the King is substantially harder to play even if it has that awesome boomy tone.
The low notes were horrible. When a downwards scale was played, I had problems hearing what type of scale it was supposed to be.
I personally don't like it as much as other brands.
What sort of a mouthpiece did you try on it? I really can’t overstate the importance of using something like a 51D on this horn-totally opens up the tone.