LOL, ya... a longer video for sure. Just be glad I got it down from 35 minutes to where it is now. HaHa! I felt it needed an educational component included just to level set the audience. Hope you like it! Clear Skies!
Hi! This is a game changer indeed! You have taken my astronomy hobby into a whole new direction. My interests have always been on taking scientific data… but I was not going down that route due the complexity of observation preparation. Now this is changed… I can’t thank you enough for bringing the plug-in to my attention!
Chad, This is PHENOMENAL!!! Never in my wildest dream did I think I would ever be able to do something like this. Just phenomenal. Obviously, criteria number 1 would be for a super clear sky to keep the ADU pure. GREAT Tutorial. This opens a whole new chapter in backyard astrophotography. It might take me a while to do this, but the option is now available.
Thanks Chad. I’m fairly new to your channel but am finding real value and quality learning embedded in each one I’ve seen. On thought: I’ve been working as a member of AAVSO doing variable star observing and recently started going though the AAVSO’s tutorial in their Exoplanet Section. The preferred software of this group appears to be AIJ - Astro Image J. It appears set up pretty well set up for the calibration, analysis and light curve plotting but has none of the NINA pluggin features relative to target selection and data acquisition. As much as I like what I’ve learned so far about how AIJ handles exoplanet work, the NINA pluggin seems like more of a time-saver and, more importantly, a process-simplified. Thanks very much for getting this video out so those of us entering exoplanet work can learn that we now have a choice of great new tools to apply to work we do within your favorite label ‘citizen science’. Regards! Gary
I’ll make sure I try AIJ as well when I do my own processing here soon. I’m hoping to get some data this evening on a couple telescopes simultaneously and then maybe even try to process them through all three of the packages. I don’t know how the video will turn out, because I don’t want it to be a 45 minute video on repeated processing… But I’m sure I’ll figure out how to make it all work. :-) now if I could just get my video camera to lock focus appropriately I’ll have it all coming together. Yours truly, Citizen Scientist Chad.
Tell me about it. I'll have an update soon but I had stepped away for a vacation, holiday time with the family, then when i was about to come back to making content, the whole family got covid. All is well, but just looking back at NINA in the last month and there are a bunch of fantastic new plugins I need to dive in to. Crazy!
Don't be surprised when an update brings us this capability. :) I could see this happening for sure. I'd love it to also include hooks for planets, asteroids, and comets too since that isn't in the skyAtlas.
What an excellent video Chad, I have to say your Nina series has been an enormous assistance to me and I'm sure other. A qq - is there specific focal length as entry into this area of the hobby. Would a 360mm refractor and DSLR do the job on a good mount do the job?
Being honest here, it is difficult to get a clear answer on this. MOST people doing real every-day photometry with their equipment are using Mono Cameras and Photometric Filters. You can find some people using OSC/DSLR but it is s bit rare since most, if not all, of the sites seem to prefer (or require) mono data as feedback if you are sharing your outcomes. Also, the regular contributor's telescopes tend to be longer focal lengths, maybe in the neighborhood of C6/C8 and up. BUT, I have found reports of people even at 275mm who had positive outcomes, and certainly longer focal length smaller aperture C4+. If you wanted to do it all the time, I would say "Mono + Photometric filter + longer FL"... but for a test, or trial, I say go for it! I hope to try tonight at both ~1320mm and 375mm. So, we will see... I am using Mono in both cases though. A bit windy here so I'm not sure of the outcome...
@@PatriotAstro thanks for the speedy reply. A case of try it and see I think. Would be really interested if you get some good results from the smaller focal lengths. You are adding to my reasons to invest in a cooled Astro mono camera 🙂
@@DiscoGrooveDad The direction is always eventually towards cooled mono cameras. Just a matter of time... :) I will say that there is something nice about a full-frame OSC though. Sometimes it just feels easier to edit, and you can't beat it for wide-field stuff. But for nebula... cooled astro cam all day long.
17:08 this process isn’t working for me, the sequence runs the two images (30 seconds then 60) but then nothing happens. I get no error codes nor does it give me the time in the instructions section.
One question. Does this plugging take into acount that the images are not calibrates? I mean. I heard that for a precise ADU star information, we need the images should be calibrates. Thanks
This plugin helps with aquisition of the data required, if you look at my follow-on processing videos for exoplanets, you will see that calibration is part of that process. You definitely need to obtain calibration frames to do this properly. You are 100% right.
Hi Chad, fab tutorial as ever. I use a 102mm refractor (714mm FL) and a colour CMOS camera (AA 294C). Will this set up restrict me with this quest? I have tried to run the plug in and after it has done the 60s exposure it always calculates to use 300s exposures (300sec set in parameters), however, it does not find any comparison stars. I have run this a number of times but do not get any of these? Any suggetsions please or is my equipment not suitable? Thank you
In theory, it should work fine with your setup. As far as suitable comparison stars, that is a tricky topic. If none are listed, they you want to look for nearby stars that are not pulsing/variable stars and are about the same magnitude and color. Some of this may be best understood after watching my processing videos such as the ones on AIJ or HOPS. As far as exposure time, it can be quite long. A monochrome camera makes it a bit easier. BTW - are you using a filter? I wonder if the filter you are using is requiring the long exposure times.
I only have two filters, an Altair Astro quadband and the lpro max. So I haven't been using a filter when trying the program out. What would you recommend for a colour CMOS RGGB?
@@julianmatthews3262 Lpro may be best. I’ve seen others use a green filter as well to capitalize on the GG bayer matrix. My other recommendation would be to find the brightest possible target available. See when there’s a good bright star/exo coming up and try that one. Something else you can do in Nina is to take an exposure, and then zoom in on the exposure in the imaging tab. I think it’s a right click mouse over to get the K value to show up on screen. See what the K value of the star is… This is the ADU. As long as it’s a decent amount above your background noise, you should be able to get results. With that being said, optionally When determining exposure length, lower your target ADU a little bit and see if you get a better exposure time.
Hello Chad! What a wonderful tutorial!, i was wondering if in my case, that i have an OSC camera is it recommended to use for example the Optolong L-Pro filter? Or is better if a leave it without any filter? Thanks again!
I've seen multiple methodologies work. Oddly enough, since most OSC use RGGB, I've even seen Green Filters recommended. My only concern about the L-Pro is that it may cut out so much light that you may need longer exposures than you'd want to take to get the fainter target stars. You may want to try it without any filter at all as well.
@@PatriotAstro It looks like the L-Pro has a similar pass around the green wavelength to a green filter (around the 450-550 mark) but it also has the blue and red pass in it as well, so wouldn't it be more effective/let more light through than just using a green filter?
@@SnaxxNZGaming quite possibly. I think the thought in the community was that the OSC cameras are RGGB and they wanted to make use of the 2xG pixels. Your approach does the same realistically so I don’t see the issue. Yep, good call.
Mostly yes. It is based on the light flux you should expect, or the amount you expect the light level to drop during the transit. If it is deeper, it will be easier to detect because the variation in light level will be larger. It could be that the planet is larger, more in-line with the star and ourselves (rather than to the edge of the star's face), and/or it could be in a tighter orbit which is closer to the star thus blocking more light. From my conversations with the plugin author, it is directly related to the data he receives in the API lookups but I believe there is some amount of math performed to normalize it such that it works on the altitude chart that is available to us. I wouldn't say it is a percentage directly, but is 'somehow' related and is relative to all other graphs displayed.
Does "Calculate exposure time" auto populate the "Smart Exposure" section? If not, do we need to run the sequence to get the exposure time, then stop the sequence to enter the correct time into the Smart Exposure, and then start the sequence again?
Correct. It doesn’t auto add it. In my sequences I either put a timed pause or manual wait via a message box command. Gives me time to make the change before the real work starts.
@@SnaxxNZGaming Just a heads up on the shared sequence specific to the ExoPlanet plugin: The plugin itself changed recently and it caused the import of that EXO sequence (due to changes in the instruction coding) to have errors. I am planning to update them soon! In the meantime, if you need that Exo sequence, you may need to rebuild it. Use the Image I included in the download package to create a replica of mine. If you need help, send me an email (find it in the UA-cam channel about section).
Love this! I’m not very good at processing pretty pictures but love the science side of the hobby. Definitely, going to try this and as a bonus, blink my frames and look for asteroids.
Thank you very much for explaining this plug-in in your video, Chad. I have two questions: 1. Can this be done with an OSC camera? 2. Given that the interest FOV will be rather small, can a ROI be defined around the star? Thanks, Alfredo
It can. Mono is better suited, but there are lots of people online doing it will DSLR. You may find that a green filter is helpful if RGGB. An ROI method may be possible, but solving the images may be more challenging at that point (if cropped to closely). These processing videos are coming... I promise. They have been brutal to get through. :)
I wonder if this exoplanet "calculate exposure time and comp selection" portion can be used OFFLINE meaning to analyze science images taken by other systems or old science images...in other words a stand alone feature..
It’s not really set up for that purpose, and since it’s really reaching out to other sources for its data on comps, I’m going to assume there are probably already other ways to do this that might be better. Personally I would like to see that particular calc exposure instruction adapted to allow me to capture RGB star images at the appropriate length to not saturate any pixels. :)
Hi Chad, I’m moving on with exoplanet work once I test some gear and firm up the process - thanks for all your work on this video. One quick question: I notice the coordinate data displayed in NINA’s sequence target lines, do not present with any decimal places in RA and Dec. My ASI178MM has pretty small pixels so it’s likely with some targets, that, with the crude level of coordinate data, the target will not end up in my field of view. When I look at the source data from Swarthmore, for example, the RA and Dec addresses all include 1 or 2 decimal places. Do you know whether NINA will use the RA and Dec, as shown in the sequencer, or will it actually send the more complete addresses to the mount when we execute a slew? Thanks for your help and all the effort you put into these terrific videos. Cheers, Gary
If you look in the output NINA FITS header, the RA/DEC are in the HMS/DMS format but without decimal precision. Even still, we are looking at a single star for the transit and I cannot imagine you have a telescope paired with the ASI178 that only fits a single star in your FOV. You should be fine (unless you are using an extremely long Focal Length, which you do not need to do for this). You shouldn't need any more precision that what NINA uses to locate your target. Let me know if you end up having issues and we can dig in together.
@@PatriotAstro ok, thanks Chad. I’m at 800mmF3.8 so I’ll have enough stars in the field. My concern is getting the target close to centered. We’ll see. Cheers!
@@gary5051 Don't worry about that, it doesnt need to be centered. You just have to know what star it is within the field when you go to process it. It could be way off at the edge and still work fine.
@@PatriotAstro I recently did a test session on XO-3b with the intent of figuring the best exposure. Problem is with the crude coordinates and a successful plate solve on them, I found that the target was just a tad off the image. Imagine capturing 900+ images without the target. Anyway, I’ll try a few more tests to see if that one was a fluke. If not, I’ll have to do the captures in Maximdl or another app that allows finer grain coordinated. Thank you … Gary
Hi Gary, I don't think the precision decimals are really needed. Just make sure platesolving is setup correctly to get the target in your image. The default is to get it within 1 arcminute, but you can set it to 0.5 or lower if needed.
Hello Patriot Astro, congratulations for the video always very interesting and very well explained, I would like to start this activity, but I have a question regarding the Telescope, do you think an 8 inch RC can be a start for this activity? Thanks for the reply and clear skies
It should be fine. The longer focal lengths are better/easier for this but even shorter FL can work. I’ve mostly done this kind of work at about 1400-1600mm.
@@PatriotAstro Thanks for the answer, I really think it's a very interesting way of doing astrophotography and a possible help to astronomy, in the future I will combine photometric filters for this activity in order to have scientific value, thanks again😊
Thank you very much for the great video. I have been trying to find a way to add scientific observations to my recreational DSO observations and had started looking into VSO and asteroid options. This is a great addition that I am trying out. Having said this, I literally tried to do some observations with the plug-in the same night you posted the video. I modified the Exoplanet container to add some additional instructions I have learned to love from some of your other videos on the Advanced Sequencer. Everything worked fine except the analysis portion of the plug-in kept failing. It ran the 30 & 60 sec exposures but failed to come up with an ADU solution and showed zero calibration stars. I used a Celestron 8" SCT + 0.63 reducer + ASI 183MC-Pro camera. I was hoping you could give me some suggestions on what to do to correct this problem. This weekend is shaping up to be a great opportunity to try again but I need some help getting past this problem. Could you help with some suggestions on how to address this? Thank you and thank you for your time and effort with all your videos.
I’m working through this a little bit myself. I talked to the Plugin author about this. Did you happen to notice what your maximum pixel value was coming up with? After my discussion with him he came up with a Plugin update so make sure you are running the latest version. I think you need to adjust down your exposure one and exposure two times. The new plug-in may adjust for this, but starting lower may help you out. I ran into an issue where it gave me a maximum ADU that was too high. There was some logic in the instruction that needed to be corrected. It’s sort of a long story, but the new code should adjust better based on a couple changes. Comparison stars get tricky. If you’re looking for true comparison stars that meet all the criteria. I wouldn’t be surprised if occasionally you got zero. When that happens you may need to go back and choose your own comparisons based on comparable ADU levels of surrounding stars and not so much worry about the other factors like stellar type and color. Long story short, update the plug-in, adjust the exposure lengths on the calculate instruction to be shorter, and let me know how it turns out. I might have clear skies starting tomorrow as well.
@@PatriotAstro Thank you so much for the quick response. I am actually setting up and plan to make another run at it tonight. I will post my results by tomorrow AM (after sunrise). 1. Sorry but I did not record my ADU values. I remember you saying the ADU values we see in the Imaging Tab readouts is the average for the entire scene not the target star. So I think you want me to take a reading of the target star as you showed in your original video.....correct? I will do that tonight. 2. I will adjust my first and second exposure times. I am in a highly light polluted site so there is a lot of background light and I do not have any filters. 3. I will download the new plug-in update before my first run. 4. I ran four different star targets the last time and all four showed no calibration stars. While it is possible there actually were none, I am concerned that that many chances at finding at least one should have had some thing show up. We will see tonight. Will get back with you soon. Thank you again and wish me luck.
@@christophert131 That sounds good. The maximum pixel will be listed next to the calculated exposure after that command runs. I’m not sure if it will be a requirement for a plug-in upgrade that you upgrade the 1.11 nightly first. Just FYI. Light pollution is tricky especially without a filter, but we will see how it ends up. If you don’t get any comparison stars, don’t worry so much about it. It is always easier if there are good comparisons, but even without them, it will be still something you can complete.
@@PatriotAstro Posted my results from last night earlier this AM but they are not showing up in the posted comments. Sorry if you have already seen this but I don't see my response. Used the upgraded plug-in last night with two targets without changing the 30/60 sec test exposures. I got a solution but the results were not what I was expecting. 1. TIC 240823272.01 was a 10.1 mag start with significant dip. Plug-in solved for this target with a recommended 119sec exposure and no companion stars. 2. TIC 367366318.01 was a 8.1 mag star with a 300 sec exposure and 2 companion stars. Not having done this before I don't know if this is acceptable or not. The exposures seem much too long and why did the brighter star need a long exposure by a significant amount. I looked at my images and there is a lot of over-exposed sky brightness and I am not sure how useful these images will be. Does this sound like the right kind of data for the two targets? Let me know what you think. Thank you.
@@christophert131 UA-cam is weird about comments. If it sees something it doesn't like, or a URL, it deletes it often before I can even see it! I'm not sure what it going on with it. Do you happen to be in the NINA Discord? Nick (plugin writer) could look at the data to see what he thinks. I would not expect a brighter star to have longer exposure, no. It is strange. I was hoping for better skies tonight, but it looks like that is out... maybe tomorrow. :( BTW - What camera were you using again? (I'll also dig through the comments to see if you mentioned it.)
@@PatriotAstro Just wondering, as I joined AAVSO with the intent of gather quick sets of observations between DSO imaging. Only to find that AAVSO/its tools have no capability to accept data/calibrate data from an OSC. I don't mind and would enjoy doing the additional science, just not ready to get a separate camera / Monochrome just for that.
Maybe you could try binning your data. That will essentially make it mono. Not sure they would accept it, but it's worth a try. I do know someone working on transits with an OSC and he uploads his data just fine. Maybe there are other constraints for variable stars. I need to look in to that.
@@PatriotAstro Just went back to the AAVSO website and saw there is a new abstract to use a DSLR for VS data. Not sure why the How to use a DSLR instruction didn't come up in my previous searches, but... The document is 110 pages long and there is not a straight forward "how to" by the time I got to page 80 and decided to go do something else more productive. You can, with some effort, dig out the individual steps to take, but there is not a concise clear set of instruction in the document. I get that technical writers tend want to cover every possible significant (to them) bit of information, resulting in the tendency to bury the "how to" in long sections of why. AAVSO writers, IMO, need some of the 'guidance' that I received decades ago as a manager rising from the technical ranks at a multi-national corporation. If you can't state your case and justify it in less that two pages, you don't know your material well enough and you've already lost your audience. When you get to presenting to the CEO level, you better be able to do it one page and 5 or less corky dots. Sure, the technical DETAILS may take pages and pages, but the Executive Summary better not or you won't get a second hearing - or asked back in the future. The same for "How To's". The audience wants to know what tools are needed, and the steps to take to use them. The technical why/what for's and gotcha's are best left in the supporting documentation for those few that need it or just want to know as their level of comfort with the process grows. That is why I like this tool/plug-in, it lets a user get quickly (and relatively painlessly) to the how to gather data using tools they are already familiar with and identifies the tools they may consider to process and submit the data. The user is left to delve deeper into the why's and how's, and unending white papers at their leisure, while being able to provide useful data NOW. IMO - YMMV
Chad- where have the three selectable Exo target websites gone? There’s no longer a way to get any list but TESS list which defaults in when you select ‘download tonight’s targets’. I believe where you chose your target source was on the Exo Pluggin page before. If I type in a target name on the ‘Name’ line, NINA doesn’t retrieve anything. Without the three original lists, the pluggin has minimal value. Over time, as the lists all lengthen, the pluggin will be missing more and more of the relevant and current targets. Without multiple links to target sources, the whole pluggin fades to black. Thanks Gary
Chad, when you live in a climate like mine I have worked out just imaging the messier catalogue will take a decade and for the NGC catalogue I expect a lifetime.
All of the software that I have found for this is free. The trickiest part of the whole thing is finding a transit with a star that’s bright enough, and the timing that works for your location. Some days you have multiple to choose from… Sometimes it feels like there’s nothing. :-)
@@PatriotAstro It will be too cold for me to venture out much more again until Spring to image…but if your location is suitable regarding the weather then maybe once you do find one of appropriate brightness for your telescope you would consider please making a video from start to finish on that transit and include how to do post processing….thank you….your videos are always highly organized and informative, Chad. 😊
ADU is analog-to-digital unit. Basically, your cameras sensor turns photons into electrons. Based on the bit depth of your camera, there is a maximum per pixel that can be gathered before it is completely saturated. In a 16-bit camera, that maximum is 65,535. So in this case, what we are trying to do first is watch the brightness of the star before the planet transit occurs. We gather the photons while we watch and convert them into electrons, and ideally we would like none of those pixels go near the maximum. Because once they go to the maximum, even if we receive more, we won’t be able to know that. We can’t count any higher than that number. By keeping the ADU around 66%, that means we can watch the star and see if it gets dimmer or brighter without getting close to the maximum capability of the camera (100%). Make sense?
66% is just a rule of thumb because it gives you overhead in case the stars brightness creeps up a little bit higher. You just want to make sure you have enough room in the ADU well depth that you can capture both the brightest star, as well as any other stars, you may need for comparisons Along with the drop in the stars brightness when the transit occurs
Thanks Chad - A lot to take in !! But thanks for the video and thanks to Nick Hardy - allowing NINA users to become involved in this hot topic !
LOL, ya... a longer video for sure. Just be glad I got it down from 35 minutes to where it is now. HaHa! I felt it needed an educational component included just to level set the audience. Hope you like it! Clear Skies!
Great video and thank you for the kind words. Cheers Nick
You make it easy Nick! Thanks for the hard work on this plugin!
Thanks Nick. I haven't tried it but I can tell by the video it was a lot of work.
Excellent! Just getting geared up for exoplanets and this makes it way easier. Thank you for the heads up!
Hi! This is a game changer indeed! You have taken my astronomy hobby into a whole new direction. My interests have always been on taking scientific data… but I was not going down that route due the complexity of observation preparation. Now this is changed… I can’t thank you enough for bringing the plug-in to my attention!
It's a whole new way to experience pain in the hobby! :) LOL
@@PatriotAstro yeah for sure! makes it all the more rewarding if all pieces finally come together
as you said earlier … amazing times
Chad, This is PHENOMENAL!!! Never in my wildest dream did I think I would ever be able to do something like this. Just phenomenal. Obviously, criteria number 1 would be for a super clear sky to keep the ADU pure. GREAT Tutorial. This opens a whole new chapter in backyard astrophotography. It might take me a while to do this, but the option is now available.
It is really a cool thing to try as a sidetrack from the normal everyday. A lot to learn in this space, but just really exciting stuff.
Another fine video. Your tutorials rank among the best YT videos available for amateur astrophotographers. Kudos!
Thanks!
Massive work for the plugin's author and for your wonderful explenation
Thanks!
Thanks Chad. I’m fairly new to your channel but am finding real value and quality learning embedded in each one I’ve seen. On thought: I’ve been working as a member of AAVSO doing variable star observing and recently started going though the AAVSO’s tutorial in their Exoplanet Section. The preferred software of this group appears to be AIJ - Astro Image J. It appears set up pretty well set up for the calibration, analysis and light curve plotting but has none of the NINA pluggin features relative to target selection and data acquisition. As much as I like what I’ve learned so far about how AIJ handles exoplanet work, the NINA pluggin seems like more of a time-saver and, more importantly, a process-simplified. Thanks very much for getting this video out so those of us entering exoplanet work can learn that we now have a choice of great new tools to apply to work we do within your favorite label ‘citizen science’. Regards! Gary
I’ll make sure I try AIJ as well when I do my own processing here soon. I’m hoping to get some data this evening on a couple telescopes simultaneously and then maybe even try to process them through all three of the packages. I don’t know how the video will turn out, because I don’t want it to be a 45 minute video on repeated processing… But I’m sure I’ll figure out how to make it all work. :-) now if I could just get my video camera to lock focus appropriately I’ll have it all coming together. Yours truly, Citizen Scientist Chad.
This is so, so cool! Thanks for covering this!
So Cuiv, I have to say... You are the reason I am a NINA user today! Thanks so much for everything you have done and continue to do in the hobby!
@@PatriotAstro Well, I'm glad I converted you so that we now get all those videos!
NINA is really running out of control, in a positive sense! It is incredible how it has improved since the beginning! Amazing stuff!
Tell me about it. I'll have an update soon but I had stepped away for a vacation, holiday time with the family, then when i was about to come back to making content, the whole family got covid. All is well, but just looking back at NINA in the last month and there are a bunch of fantastic new plugins I need to dive in to. Crazy!
Wow, what powerful tool. Need one on the same basis for Variable Star Observations which have many of the same requirements.
Don't be surprised when an update brings us this capability. :) I could see this happening for sure. I'd love it to also include hooks for planets, asteroids, and comets too since that isn't in the skyAtlas.
What an excellent video Chad, I have to say your Nina series has been an enormous assistance to me and I'm sure other. A qq - is there specific focal length as entry into this area of the hobby. Would a 360mm refractor and DSLR do the job on a good mount do the job?
Being honest here, it is difficult to get a clear answer on this. MOST people doing real every-day photometry with their equipment are using Mono Cameras and Photometric Filters. You can find some people using OSC/DSLR but it is s bit rare since most, if not all, of the sites seem to prefer (or require) mono data as feedback if you are sharing your outcomes. Also, the regular contributor's telescopes tend to be longer focal lengths, maybe in the neighborhood of C6/C8 and up. BUT, I have found reports of people even at 275mm who had positive outcomes, and certainly longer focal length smaller aperture C4+. If you wanted to do it all the time, I would say "Mono + Photometric filter + longer FL"... but for a test, or trial, I say go for it! I hope to try tonight at both ~1320mm and 375mm. So, we will see... I am using Mono in both cases though. A bit windy here so I'm not sure of the outcome...
@@PatriotAstro thanks for the speedy reply. A case of try it and see I think. Would be really interested if you get some good results from the smaller focal lengths. You are adding to my reasons to invest in a cooled Astro mono camera 🙂
@@DiscoGrooveDad The direction is always eventually towards cooled mono cameras. Just a matter of time... :) I will say that there is something nice about a full-frame OSC though. Sometimes it just feels easier to edit, and you can't beat it for wide-field stuff. But for nebula... cooled astro cam all day long.
Great video. I will start to capture one of them after your end to end video :) Thank you.
Sounds like a plan!
17:08 this process isn’t working for me, the sequence runs the two images (30 seconds then 60) but then nothing happens. I get no error codes nor does it give me the time in the instructions section.
Still having the issue? I'm way behind on the responses here... sorry!
One question. Does this plugging take into acount that the images are not calibrates? I mean. I heard that for a precise ADU star information, we need the images should be calibrates. Thanks
This plugin helps with aquisition of the data required, if you look at my follow-on processing videos for exoplanets, you will see that calibration is part of that process. You definitely need to obtain calibration frames to do this properly. You are 100% right.
@ ok Thanks a lot
Hi Chad, fab tutorial as ever. I use a 102mm refractor (714mm FL) and a colour CMOS camera (AA 294C). Will this set up restrict me with this quest? I have tried to run the plug in and after it has done the 60s exposure it always calculates to use 300s exposures (300sec set in parameters), however, it does not find any comparison stars. I have run this a number of times but do not get any of these? Any suggetsions please or is my equipment not suitable? Thank you
In theory, it should work fine with your setup. As far as suitable comparison stars, that is a tricky topic. If none are listed, they you want to look for nearby stars that are not pulsing/variable stars and are about the same magnitude and color. Some of this may be best understood after watching my processing videos such as the ones on AIJ or HOPS. As far as exposure time, it can be quite long. A monochrome camera makes it a bit easier. BTW - are you using a filter? I wonder if the filter you are using is requiring the long exposure times.
I only have two filters, an Altair Astro quadband and the lpro max. So I haven't been using a filter when trying the program out. What would you recommend for a colour CMOS RGGB?
@@julianmatthews3262 Lpro may be best. I’ve seen others use a green filter as well to capitalize on the GG bayer matrix. My other recommendation would be to find the brightest possible target available. See when there’s a good bright star/exo coming up and try that one. Something else you can do in Nina is to take an exposure, and then zoom in on the exposure in the imaging tab. I think it’s a right click mouse over to get the K value to show up on screen. See what the K value of the star is… This is the ADU. As long as it’s a decent amount above your background noise, you should be able to get results. With that being said, optionally When determining exposure length, lower your target ADU a little bit and see if you get a better exposure time.
@@PatriotAstro thanks Chad for a prompt reply, appreciated. It is something that I would love to do, so I will keep trying and with the Lpro as well.
Hello Chad!
What a wonderful tutorial!, i was wondering if in my case, that i have an OSC camera is it recommended to use for example the Optolong L-Pro filter? Or is better if a leave it without any filter? Thanks again!
I've seen multiple methodologies work. Oddly enough, since most OSC use RGGB, I've even seen Green Filters recommended. My only concern about the L-Pro is that it may cut out so much light that you may need longer exposures than you'd want to take to get the fainter target stars. You may want to try it without any filter at all as well.
@@PatriotAstro thanks for you reply Chad! I'm going to try without any filter for now and after that see the results
@@PatriotAstro It looks like the L-Pro has a similar pass around the green wavelength to a green filter (around the 450-550 mark) but it also has the blue and red pass in it as well, so wouldn't it be more effective/let more light through than just using a green filter?
@@SnaxxNZGaming quite possibly. I think the thought in the community was that the OSC cameras are RGGB and they wanted to make use of the 2xG pixels. Your approach does the same realistically so I don’t see the issue. Yep, good call.
Hi, thank you for your video, one question, what is the depth value ? Is it a percentage of obstruction ?
Mostly yes. It is based on the light flux you should expect, or the amount you expect the light level to drop during the transit. If it is deeper, it will be easier to detect because the variation in light level will be larger. It could be that the planet is larger, more in-line with the star and ourselves (rather than to the edge of the star's face), and/or it could be in a tighter orbit which is closer to the star thus blocking more light. From my conversations with the plugin author, it is directly related to the data he receives in the API lookups but I believe there is some amount of math performed to normalize it such that it works on the altitude chart that is available to us. I wouldn't say it is a percentage directly, but is 'somehow' related and is relative to all other graphs displayed.
Does "Calculate exposure time" auto populate the "Smart Exposure" section?
If not, do we need to run the sequence to get the exposure time, then stop the sequence to enter the correct time into the Smart Exposure, and then start the sequence again?
Correct. It doesn’t auto add it. In my sequences I either put a timed pause or manual wait via a message box command. Gives me time to make the change before the real work starts.
@@PatriotAstro Just downloaded your sequences (Building a dark library at the moment).
Will check the others out while its cloudy.
@@SnaxxNZGaming Just a heads up on the shared sequence specific to the ExoPlanet plugin: The plugin itself changed recently and it caused the import of that EXO sequence (due to changes in the instruction coding) to have errors. I am planning to update them soon! In the meantime, if you need that Exo sequence, you may need to rebuild it. Use the Image I included in the download package to create a replica of mine. If you need help, send me an email (find it in the UA-cam channel about section).
Love this! I’m not very good at processing pretty pictures but love the science side of the hobby. Definitely, going to try this and as a bonus, blink my frames and look for asteroids.
Sounds like a great plan. :)
Thank you very much for explaining this plug-in in your video, Chad. I have two questions:
1. Can this be done with an OSC camera?
2. Given that the interest FOV will be rather small, can a ROI be defined around the star?
Thanks,
Alfredo
It can. Mono is better suited, but there are lots of people online doing it will DSLR. You may find that a green filter is helpful if RGGB. An ROI method may be possible, but solving the images may be more challenging at that point (if cropped to closely). These processing videos are coming... I promise. They have been brutal to get through. :)
@@PatriotAstro Very good, I’ll be looking forward to them
I wonder if this exoplanet "calculate exposure time and comp selection" portion can be used OFFLINE meaning to analyze science images taken by other systems or old science images...in other words a stand alone feature..
It’s not really set up for that purpose, and since it’s really reaching out to other sources for its data on comps, I’m going to assume there are probably already other ways to do this that might be better. Personally I would like to see that particular calc exposure instruction adapted to allow me to capture RGB star images at the appropriate length to not saturate any pixels. :)
Hi Chad, I’m moving on with exoplanet work once I test some gear and firm up the process - thanks for all your work on this video. One quick question: I notice the coordinate data displayed in NINA’s sequence target lines, do not present with any decimal places in RA and Dec. My ASI178MM has pretty small pixels so it’s likely with some targets, that, with the crude level of coordinate data, the target will not end up in my field of view. When I look at the source data from Swarthmore, for example, the RA and Dec addresses all include 1 or 2 decimal places. Do you know whether NINA will use the RA and Dec, as shown in the sequencer, or will it actually send the more complete addresses to the mount when we execute a slew? Thanks for your help and all the effort you put into these terrific videos. Cheers, Gary
If you look in the output NINA FITS header, the RA/DEC are in the HMS/DMS format but without decimal precision. Even still, we are looking at a single star for the transit and I cannot imagine you have a telescope paired with the ASI178 that only fits a single star in your FOV. You should be fine (unless you are using an extremely long Focal Length, which you do not need to do for this). You shouldn't need any more precision that what NINA uses to locate your target. Let me know if you end up having issues and we can dig in together.
@@PatriotAstro ok, thanks Chad. I’m at 800mmF3.8 so I’ll have enough stars in the field. My concern is getting the target close to centered. We’ll see. Cheers!
@@gary5051 Don't worry about that, it doesnt need to be centered. You just have to know what star it is within the field when you go to process it. It could be way off at the edge and still work fine.
@@PatriotAstro I recently did a test session on XO-3b with the intent of figuring the best exposure. Problem is with the crude coordinates and a successful plate solve on them, I found that the target was just a tad off the image. Imagine capturing 900+ images without the target. Anyway, I’ll try a few more tests to see if that one was a fluke. If not, I’ll have to do the captures in Maximdl or another app that allows finer grain coordinated. Thank you … Gary
Hi Gary, I don't think the precision decimals are really needed.
Just make sure platesolving is setup correctly to get the target in your image.
The default is to get it within 1 arcminute, but you can set it to 0.5 or lower if needed.
Awesome vid !
:) Thanks!
Hello Patriot Astro, congratulations for the video always very interesting and very well explained, I would like to start this activity, but I have a question regarding the Telescope, do you think an 8 inch RC can be a start for this activity? Thanks for the reply and clear skies
It should be fine. The longer focal lengths are better/easier for this but even shorter FL can work. I’ve mostly done this kind of work at about 1400-1600mm.
@@PatriotAstro Thanks for the answer, I really think it's a very interesting way of doing astrophotography and a possible help to astronomy, in the future I will combine photometric filters for this activity in order to have scientific value, thanks again😊
Thank you very much for the great video. I have been trying to find a way to add scientific observations to my recreational DSO observations and had started looking into VSO and asteroid options. This is a great addition that I am trying out. Having said this, I literally tried to do some observations with the plug-in the same night you posted the video. I modified the Exoplanet container to add some additional instructions I have learned to love from some of your other videos on the Advanced Sequencer. Everything worked fine except the analysis portion of the plug-in kept failing. It ran the 30 & 60 sec exposures but failed to come up with an ADU solution and showed zero calibration stars. I used a Celestron 8" SCT + 0.63 reducer + ASI 183MC-Pro camera. I was hoping you could give me some suggestions on what to do to correct this problem. This weekend is shaping up to be a great opportunity to try again but I need some help getting past this problem. Could you help with some suggestions on how to address this? Thank you and thank you for your time and effort with all your videos.
I’m working through this a little bit myself. I talked to the Plugin author about this. Did you happen to notice what your maximum pixel value was coming up with? After my discussion with him he came up with a Plugin update so make sure you are running the latest version. I think you need to adjust down your exposure one and exposure two times. The new plug-in may adjust for this, but starting lower may help you out. I ran into an issue where it gave me a maximum ADU that was too high. There was some logic in the instruction that needed to be corrected. It’s sort of a long story, but the new code should adjust better based on a couple changes. Comparison stars get tricky. If you’re looking for true comparison stars that meet all the criteria. I wouldn’t be surprised if occasionally you got zero. When that happens you may need to go back and choose your own comparisons based on comparable ADU levels of surrounding stars and not so much worry about the other factors like stellar type and color. Long story short, update the plug-in, adjust the exposure lengths on the calculate instruction to be shorter, and let me know how it turns out. I might have clear skies starting tomorrow as well.
@@PatriotAstro Thank you so much for the quick response. I am actually setting up and plan to make another run at it tonight. I will post my results by tomorrow AM (after sunrise).
1. Sorry but I did not record my ADU values. I remember you saying the ADU values we see in the Imaging Tab readouts is the average for the entire scene not the target star. So I think you want me to take a reading of the target star as you showed in your original video.....correct? I will do that tonight.
2. I will adjust my first and second exposure times. I am in a highly light polluted site so there is a lot of background light and I do not have any filters.
3. I will download the new plug-in update before my first run.
4. I ran four different star targets the last time and all four showed no calibration stars. While it is possible there actually were none, I am concerned that that many chances at finding at least one should have had some thing show up. We will see tonight.
Will get back with you soon. Thank you again and wish me luck.
@@christophert131 That sounds good. The maximum pixel will be listed next to the calculated exposure after that command runs. I’m not sure if it will be a requirement for a plug-in upgrade that you upgrade the 1.11 nightly first. Just FYI. Light pollution is tricky especially without a filter, but we will see how it ends up. If you don’t get any comparison stars, don’t worry so much about it. It is always easier if there are good comparisons, but even without them, it will be still something you can complete.
@@PatriotAstro Posted my results from last night earlier this AM but they are not showing up in the posted comments. Sorry if you have already seen this but I don't see my response.
Used the upgraded plug-in last night with two targets without changing the 30/60 sec test exposures. I got a solution but the results were not what I was expecting.
1. TIC 240823272.01 was a 10.1 mag start with significant dip. Plug-in solved for this target with a recommended 119sec exposure and no companion stars.
2. TIC 367366318.01 was a 8.1 mag star with a 300 sec exposure and 2 companion stars.
Not having done this before I don't know if this is acceptable or not. The exposures seem much too long and why did the brighter star need a long exposure by a significant amount.
I looked at my images and there is a lot of over-exposed sky brightness and I am not sure how useful these images will be. Does this sound like the right kind of data for the two targets? Let me know what you think. Thank you.
@@christophert131 UA-cam is weird about comments. If it sees something it doesn't like, or a URL, it deletes it often before I can even see it! I'm not sure what it going on with it. Do you happen to be in the NINA Discord? Nick (plugin writer) could look at the data to see what he thinks. I would not expect a brighter star to have longer exposure, no. It is strange. I was hoping for better skies tonight, but it looks like that is out... maybe tomorrow. :( BTW - What camera were you using again? (I'll also dig through the comments to see if you mentioned it.)
Just a quick question: is this dependent on using a monochrome imager vs an OSC?
OSC is better suited, as is a true purpose-built photometry filter for a mono camera, but OSC will work.
@@PatriotAstro Just wondering, as I joined AAVSO with the intent of gather quick sets of observations between DSO imaging. Only to find that AAVSO/its tools have no capability to accept data/calibrate data from an OSC. I don't mind and would enjoy doing the additional science, just not ready to get a separate camera / Monochrome just for that.
@@gclaytony understandable.
Maybe you could try binning your data. That will essentially make it mono.
Not sure they would accept it, but it's worth a try.
I do know someone working on transits with an OSC and he uploads his data just fine.
Maybe there are other constraints for variable stars.
I need to look in to that.
@@PatriotAstro Just went back to the AAVSO website and saw there is a new abstract to use a DSLR for VS data. Not sure why the How to use a DSLR instruction didn't come up in my previous searches, but... The document is 110 pages long and there is not a straight forward "how to" by the time I got to page 80 and decided to go do something else more productive. You can, with some effort, dig out the individual steps to take, but there is not a concise clear set of instruction in the document.
I get that technical writers tend want to cover every possible significant (to them) bit of information, resulting in the tendency to bury the "how to" in long sections of why. AAVSO writers, IMO, need some of the 'guidance' that I received decades ago as a manager rising from the technical ranks at a multi-national corporation. If you can't state your case and justify it in less that two pages, you don't know your material well enough and you've already lost your audience. When you get to presenting to the CEO level, you better be able to do it one page and 5 or less corky dots.
Sure, the technical DETAILS may take pages and pages, but the Executive Summary better not or you won't get a second hearing - or asked back in the future. The same for "How To's". The audience wants to know what tools are needed, and the steps to take to use them. The technical why/what for's and gotcha's are best left in the supporting documentation for those few that need it or just want to know as their level of comfort with the process grows.
That is why I like this tool/plug-in, it lets a user get quickly (and relatively painlessly) to the how to gather data using tools they are already familiar with and identifies the tools they may consider to process and submit the data. The user is left to delve deeper into the why's and how's, and unending white papers at their leisure, while being able to provide useful data NOW.
IMO - YMMV
Great Video !
Thanks!
Thanks to share.
My pleasure
Chad- where have the three selectable Exo target websites gone? There’s no longer a way to get any list but TESS list which defaults in when you select ‘download tonight’s targets’. I believe where you chose your target source was on the Exo Pluggin page before. If I type in a target name on the ‘Name’ line, NINA doesn’t retrieve anything. Without the three original lists, the pluggin has minimal value. Over time, as the lists all lengthen, the pluggin will be missing more and more of the relevant and current targets. Without multiple links to target sources, the whole pluggin fades to black. Thanks Gary
Sorry for missing this one! Have you updated NINA to beta2 (latest release) as well as the plugin? That may be the issue.
@@PatriotAstro Thank you Chad...I found it a few days after my note - sorry to bug you. Im on Beta 057 now.
@@gary5051 No problem. Any time~!
Chad, when you live in a climate like mine I have worked out just imaging the messier catalogue will take a decade and for the NGC catalogue I expect a lifetime.
That is true. There certainly isn't a shortage of targets! :)
Fascinating
Would love a plug-in for asteroids…..❤️
I would love asteroids, comets, variable stars, planets,… All as options. :-) Who knows? We will see.
This is unbelievable….a plug-in that can do this ….are the processing software expensive….are there some that might be free?
All of the software that I have found for this is free. The trickiest part of the whole thing is finding a transit with a star that’s bright enough, and the timing that works for your location. Some days you have multiple to choose from… Sometimes it feels like there’s nothing. :-)
@@PatriotAstro It will be too cold for me to venture out much more again until Spring to image…but if your location is suitable regarding the weather then maybe once you do find one of appropriate brightness for your telescope you would consider please making a video from start to finish on that transit and include how to do post processing….thank you….your videos are always highly organized and informative, Chad. 😊
@@astronomynotebook Will do. It'll mostly be processing with a little bit on the acquisition (fast forwarded to skip the boring parts).
Lets back up a bit .... "beep beep beep".... haha classic!
Ya, you gottta have some fun sometimes... :) LOL
@@PatriotAstro That is (hopefully) what I try to get across in my videos as well. Lots of silliness included :P
@@KopLamp HaHA for sure!
WTF is ADU?
ADU is analog-to-digital unit. Basically, your cameras sensor turns photons into electrons. Based on the bit depth of your camera, there is a maximum per pixel that can be gathered before it is completely saturated. In a 16-bit camera, that maximum is 65,535. So in this case, what we are trying to do first is watch the brightness of the star before the planet transit occurs. We gather the photons while we watch and convert them into electrons, and ideally we would like none of those pixels go near the maximum. Because once they go to the maximum, even if we receive more, we won’t be able to know that. We can’t count any higher than that number. By keeping the ADU around 66%, that means we can watch the star and see if it gets dimmer or brighter without getting close to the maximum capability of the camera (100%). Make sense?
@@PatriotAstro Ah, it is a "dimensionless number"
Do all I need to put a different Target ADU for each star or is it always 66%?
66% is just a rule of thumb because it gives you overhead in case the stars brightness creeps up a little bit higher. You just want to make sure you have enough room in the ADU well depth that you can capture both the brightest star, as well as any other stars, you may need for comparisons Along with the drop in the stars brightness when the transit occurs