My 1980 Sherline Lathe could not cut much of anything without severe chatter. Looking back, the bearings most likely were the problem. The X and Z axis ways appeared to be a good fit. Yes the new DC motor has greatly improved the lathe.
Thanks for the help my friend . You folks in Korea are amazing . From rural agrarian society to world leader in robotics . And all in my lifetime . Could you folks perhaps do something for Mexico?
Eventually I need to make a UA-cam video on my changing the Sherline 5000 mill into a larger travel Bridge Mill. I now have a single bent brass cover over the lead screw and ways in the back. With the removal of the Z axis column from the bed, the 5000 mill now has 6" of Y travel using a longer lead screw. Back in 1980 with my first Sherline mill, I discovered the hard-way that large steel chips can cause major damage to the Y axis.
Please describe the quality of the cut with the standard bearings and the taper roller bearings. If the tapered bearings improved the cut quality and decreased chatter I will change the bearings on my lathe and mill.
Didn't really catch what you did when you were showing the machining of the spindle in the vice. What were you doing? I would like to do the same, given the less runout of using this kind of bearing, on my mill. Any idea whats the rated speed the bearing can run at continuously? I've the 10,000 rpm pulley on the spindle all the time and would be using it at above 8000 rpm continuously.
The bearings I used are a bit deeper than the original sherline bearings. So I extended the pulley set screw position a bit further. And I do not know much about bearings, but in general I hear that the higher grade bearings guarantee stable operation in high RPM. The best support of the bearings I bought this time is 9,000. I did not draw a picture because I changed the bearings on the weekend. I'm sorry, Wong, tomorrow or maybe tomorrow! Thank you, brother.
Thanks for the information. That means that if there is similar bear with the same height as the original Sherline's, I don't have to extend the set screw position. Hope there is one as I'm always nervous when doing such mod. lol. You're far more advanced than me though I started earlier in the hobby. Too chicken to try anything of such... And... don't worry about the drawings. Its a hobby meant to be enjoyed, so take your time. Thanks brother!
Great video. I had been wondering if tapered roller bearings would affect pulley location. A coiple things, you showed the runout with yhe retaining nut tightened up but you didn't show how you set your bearing clearance. It's the most important aspevt of the installation. For something like this I'd use a jig to hold the heafstock on a plate and apply pressure to thre rear side shaft, pushing it forwsrd. You also need a wsy of pushing back on the front of the shaft as well and have a 0.0001" test indicator on the outer front face of the shaft. Your going for about 0.0003-0.0004" endfloat if you plsn to run above 5000rpm. Any less and you'll significantly reduce the besrings life, if you notice a sound change after 5 or so minutes mid to high rpm you have a problem It's not something you can guess at. I believe you have less end float than you need, you"ll have issues once things start to get hot and thermal expansion happens. These short bearing space spindles heat the shaft much faster than other spindle types, carefull setup is a must. Measuring runout is fine but it is what it is and is not the important step im a bearing swap. The other thing is the grease, the tapered rollers have no way to retain it. They grease will run off them after some extended running. You'll be running dry bearings within a few hours use. You obviously can't use oil and packing the heafstovk with grease will only result in the heafstock leaking itvfrom both ends. Using that type of bearing makes the spindle far more rigid but tje headstock design doesn't allow for seals. It makes them the wrong choice for this application. Unless you can properly lube each bearing after a couple/few hours use they will get damaged and fail. The better option is an angular contact ball bearimg. You can get them in 15,25 and 40 degree face angles. For heavy milling at speeds under 6000rpm the 25 degree is my choice, the 25 degree for higher speed lighter losd use. The bearings numbets are 7004C-C5 2rs. First C is for 25vdegree fsce, C5 is more running clearance for faster speeds and 2rs is rubber seals both sides (non contsct type). If you order them with rubber seals only on the outboard side you could run the headstock in an oil bath (oil almost as high as top of lowest ball bearing) or pack 1/4 full of grease. This would give you the rigidity you want without ongoing lube problems. The C5 cost more but the only wsy to go if your even hslf serous. The tapered roller is a great idea, the lube issue mskes it a bad choice though.
Yes putting a shield helps with the chips... but those tapered roller bearings require a seal to keep lubrication in place. After a short while all the grease will settle away from the rollers. This is why bearings like these on vehicles are packed full of grease and sealed to keep lubrication in place. Many modern lathes that have tapered roller bearings are operating in an oil bath to allow for higher speeds, grease on the other hand is not for high rpm use.
I can see the bearing is sticking out a little bit so you can not use the old washer to cover the front bearing. Do you plan to cover that or just leave it be?
Wow! Nice video. I have an older model 1000 that has bearings you have to take apart and relub with grease every 50hrs or so. I would like to upgrade and was going to use the stock sealed bearings. But after reading your comments below I see the bearings you show in the video are wider. By how much? What is the thickness of the stock Sherline bearing?
CryhavocMike In Korea, I bought one at 50,000 won (one dollar: 1200 won). However, bearing prices are very cheap in Korea. Perhaps $ 60 to $ 70 each will be available. If it is a little expensive, buy a normal grade instead of a p5 grade. The normal grade will be available for $ 10 to $ 20. The stock bearing size of sherline is 42mm in outer diameter, 20mm in inner diameter and 12mm in width. And thanks for watching my video.
Mirager, Thanks for the bearing dimensions. I found some Angular Contact bearings here in the US at a place called Boca Bearings that are the same dimensions as the stock bearings. Here is the link, www.bocabearings.com/products/bearing-and-ball-types/angular-contact-bearings?loadResults=true&ProductType=0&P_Id_equal=20&P_Od_equal=42 The selections range from $50 US to $250 US. The $50 and $90 are the same except for Ceramic. I'm sure the Ceramic will handle 20,000rpm or more. The $50 are grade 5 and the $250 are grade 7.
Banging them is bad if you hit them on the inner ring the other ring is the only part you can wack never the inner but... if u need to use alot of force you should have better fitting procedure for closer fits ether press fit or shrink fitting
sherline is for those who want save money so 2 dollar bearing is good enought lol. you lost money when buy sherline and then upgrade. you could just buy those bearings and made headstock
Let HIM report the number HIS measuring device gives! It is what he has and it is first hand, measured result. It is fine for you to interpret it any way you wish...but I would prefer to hear first hand data rather than an interpretation. It is called science!
hello, what is the tightening torque of the nuts ? and especially when are you coming back to youtube? everyone is waiting for you
Wow! Precision and patience.
Thank you so much!!! have a nice day :)
My 1980 Sherline Lathe could not cut much of anything without severe chatter. Looking back, the bearings most likely were the problem. The X and Z axis ways appeared to be a good fit. Yes the new DC motor has greatly improved the lathe.
Thanks for the help my friend . You folks in Korea are amazing . From rural agrarian society to world leader in robotics . And all in my lifetime . Could you folks perhaps do something for Mexico?
Can't you guys in the US buy sets of proper wrenches - those adjustable crescent wrenches are perfect for rounding off nut and bolt heads?
Eventually I need to make a UA-cam video on my changing the Sherline 5000 mill into a larger travel Bridge Mill. I now have a single bent brass cover over the lead screw and ways in the back. With the removal of the Z axis column from the bed, the 5000 mill now has 6" of Y travel using a longer lead screw. Back in 1980 with my first Sherline mill, I discovered the hard-way that large steel chips can cause major damage to the Y axis.
Please describe the quality of the cut with the standard bearings and the taper roller bearings. If the tapered bearings improved the cut quality and decreased chatter I will change the bearings on my lathe and mill.
sweet another great video two thumbs up
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing!!
thx for watching my videos. Take care covid19
Where did you go!?!? Dying for more content
Very usefull video. But i only can find bearing 32004 nsk or skf without P5 and cheaper price. What does "P5" mean?
friend what type of bearing and precision p 3 p4 or c1 c2 ??? please what bearing use ?
This is one sweet video! Awesome job!
do you mean you got better roundness on part?
Where did you get the bearings?
Another great video!
Thank you so much. have a nice day.
Beer drinking in this video is meant for fun. You should never drink alcohol while working.
It also makes doing this much longer as you will eventually have to pee.
Didn't really catch what you did when you were showing the machining of the spindle in the vice. What were you doing? I would like to do the same, given the less runout of using this kind of bearing, on my mill. Any idea whats the rated speed the bearing can run at continuously? I've the 10,000 rpm pulley on the spindle all the time and would be using it at above 8000 rpm continuously.
The bearings I used are a bit deeper than the original sherline bearings. So I extended the pulley set screw position a bit further. And I do not know much about bearings, but in general I hear that the higher grade bearings guarantee stable operation in high RPM. The best support of the bearings I bought this time is 9,000. I did not draw a picture because I changed the bearings on the weekend. I'm sorry, Wong, tomorrow or maybe tomorrow! Thank you, brother.
Thanks for the information. That means that if there is similar bear with the same height as the original Sherline's, I don't have to extend the set screw position. Hope there is one as I'm always nervous when doing such mod. lol. You're far more advanced than me though I started earlier in the hobby. Too chicken to try anything of such...
And... don't worry about the drawings. Its a hobby meant to be enjoyed, so take your time. Thanks brother!
Great video. I had been wondering if tapered roller bearings would affect pulley location.
A coiple things, you showed the runout with yhe retaining nut tightened up but you didn't show how you set your bearing clearance. It's the most important aspevt of the installation.
For something like this I'd use a jig to hold the heafstock on a plate and apply pressure to thre rear side shaft, pushing it forwsrd. You also need a wsy of pushing back on the front of the shaft as well and have a 0.0001" test indicator on the outer front face of the shaft.
Your going for about 0.0003-0.0004" endfloat if you plsn to run above 5000rpm. Any less and you'll significantly reduce the besrings life, if you notice a sound change after 5 or so minutes mid to high rpm you have a problem
It's not something you can guess at. I believe you have less end float than you need, you"ll have issues once things start to get hot and thermal expansion happens. These short bearing space spindles heat the shaft much faster than other spindle types, carefull setup is a must. Measuring runout is fine but it is what it is and is not the important step im a bearing swap.
The other thing is the grease, the tapered rollers have no way to retain it. They grease will run off them after some extended running. You'll be running dry bearings within a few hours use. You obviously can't use oil and packing the heafstovk with grease will only result in the heafstock leaking itvfrom both ends. Using that type of bearing makes the spindle far more rigid but tje headstock design doesn't allow for seals. It makes them the wrong choice for this application. Unless you can properly lube each bearing after a couple/few hours use they will get damaged and fail.
The better option is an angular contact ball bearimg. You can get them in 15,25 and 40 degree face angles. For heavy milling at speeds under 6000rpm the 25 degree is my choice, the 25 degree for higher speed lighter losd use.
The bearings numbets are 7004C-C5 2rs. First C is for 25vdegree fsce, C5 is more running clearance for faster speeds and 2rs is rubber seals both sides (non contsct type). If you order them with rubber seals only on the outboard side you could run the headstock in an oil bath (oil almost as high as top of lowest ball bearing) or pack 1/4 full of grease. This would give you the rigidity you want without ongoing lube problems. The C5 cost more but the only wsy to go if your even hslf serous.
The tapered roller is a great idea, the lube issue mskes it a bad choice though.
A very good video as always, thanks for sharing.
Luiz
Your reply always makes me feel good. The first channel I subscribed to on UA-cam was Luiz. Thanks for watching.
Luiz is the man!!! I'm still thinking of how to do the gib adjustment mod he did without screwing up my machine...
Thank you Wong,
I intent top make a detailed video about that, have many cool improvements and it brings a new machine and nice results.
Wow! Thank you, Luiz Ally! I'll wait for your video on that!
I`ll waiting for your video too!!!!!!
Very Nice... but no seal for lubrication and to keep chips from getting in, wouldnt that be a problem?
facebook.com/groups/975235319239533/permalink/1374875585942169/
Yes putting a shield helps with the chips... but those tapered roller bearings require a seal to keep lubrication in place. After a short while all the grease will settle away from the rollers. This is why bearings like these on vehicles are packed full of grease and sealed to keep lubrication in place. Many modern lathes that have tapered roller bearings are operating in an oil bath to allow for higher speeds, grease on the other hand is not for high rpm use.
I can see the bearing is sticking out a little bit so you can not use the old washer to cover the front bearing. Do you plan to cover that or just leave it be?
Khai Le facebook.com/groups/975235319239533/permalink/1374875585942169?sfns=mo
Wow! Nice video. I have an older model 1000 that has bearings you have to take apart and relub with grease every 50hrs or so. I would like to upgrade and was going to use the stock sealed bearings. But after reading your comments below I see the bearings you show in the video are wider. By how much? What is the thickness of the stock Sherline bearing?
CryhavocMike In Korea, I bought one at 50,000 won (one dollar: 1200 won). However, bearing prices are very cheap in Korea. Perhaps $ 60 to $ 70 each will be available. If it is a little expensive, buy a normal grade instead of a p5 grade. The normal grade will be available for $ 10 to $ 20. The stock bearing size of sherline is 42mm in outer diameter, 20mm in inner diameter and 12mm in width. And thanks for watching my video.
Mirager, Thanks for the bearing dimensions. I found some Angular Contact bearings here in the US at a place called Boca Bearings that are the same dimensions as the stock bearings. Here is the link, www.bocabearings.com/products/bearing-and-ball-types/angular-contact-bearings?loadResults=true&ProductType=0&P_Id_equal=20&P_Od_equal=42 The selections range from $50 US to $250 US. The $50 and $90 are the same except for Ceramic. I'm sure the Ceramic will handle 20,000rpm or more. The $50 are grade 5 and the $250 are grade 7.
CryhavocMike Angle bearings are also a good choice.
초정밀 고속 고부하 샤프트 테이프 원뿔형 토오크 베어링 good!
Banging bearings is bad practice: use a press or drill press.
Banging them is bad if you hit them on the inner ring the other ring is the only part you can wack never the inner but... if u need to use alot of force you should have better fitting procedure for closer fits ether press fit or shrink fitting
Tôi thường gặp vấn đề về vòng bi giả có bạn nào chia sẻ về việc thật , giả này được không ?
sherline is for those who want save money so 2 dollar bearing is good enought lol. you lost money when buy sherline and then upgrade. you could just buy those bearings and made headstock
!
Really! You're claiming to measure .00019 in your shop, not a lab. Just say it's under a thousand, that's believable.
cheap bearing do more round part than our 30000dollar production lathe that cut 100mm from chuck 0.05 non round LOL.
Let HIM report the number HIS measuring device gives! It is what he has and it is first hand, measured result. It is fine for you to interpret it any way you wish...but I would prefer to hear first hand data rather than an interpretation. It is called science!