The Code. I cannot gush enough about it having boated a Mamba for 8 years then getting rid of it. Was in a half slice Axiom/Rewind which I love and they were my only boat for a few years. I wanted a creeker again and then I bought a Code. I am kind of jealous that new boaters these days get to learn on all the modern designs of any maker. This was a really great comparison review. Stumbled on it randomly.
It’s INSANE what a huge design leap dagger did in replacing the mamba with the code. Mamba will always be a special boat in the history of boat design, but the Code is just soooo much better!
Having owned 2 ( OG and Code L) and demo'd a Scorch L you pretty much hit the nail on the head dude. I broke my OG and had a choice of either of the other 2 from local dealers. I bought the Code L, let me qualify a bit. I'm 95-100kg or 210-220 lbs depending on the season, I had been away from Kayaking for 20+ years and I'm not as sharp as I was back then. That bit of forgiveness you talk about in the Code is there for sure. The large is a big boat but handles very well and feels smaller than it is, particularly when in decent water, thats moving fast. Don't be intimidated by the size of it, it's a great boat. Saying that I'd happily go back to the OG. We really are spoiled for choice now!
Thanks for the feedback! Glad to hear you’re digging the code. Crazy that even more options have hit the market since I made this video. The Liquidlogic RMX looks like a pretty promising design as well!
Great review! Thorough details and qualified thoughts! I’m 190, recently bought the Med Code, coming from a Large Mamba then to a Phantom, I feel like the Code is the perfect in between of those two boats. Faster than the mamba, stable and forgiving as the mamba, but can be paddled “slower” than the Phantom while still being in control. Its been such a great “fit” for me that I need to be careful and not get overly confident in it, as it’s allowed me the comfort/confidence to run more challenging water than I would have if still in the Phantom. Anecdotally I feel like the plastic in this new blue code is softer and gouges more than the 6 yr old red mamba. Curious if others have noticed a difference in plastic lately.
Thanks Derich! That's definitely a great assessment of where the Code falls in with other Dagger models. They discontinued the Mamba to make the Code, so it's basically meant to be just that! I've seen a few similar mentions of the plastic issues - not just with Dagger but across the board. Part of me wonders if there's a genuine difference in the plastic, or if it has something to do with the designs themselves. If I ever come across an engineer who can break it down for me I'll be sure to do a video on the topic!
I have a code and rewind - plastic is definitely less robust than my previous axiom and mamba, more bendy and gauges more easily. Wondered if it was because plastic has to be recyclable now🤷
I paddled a OG for one season (before I broke it). I am around 220lb, so towards the upper weight of the boat, and found it very responsive and boofed excellently. I was paddling mostly steep creeks in Scotland (class IV).
Great video, Seth. Thanks for putting this together. Your comments about the sizing of these boats seems dead on. I wonder if the M Code would be more comparable to the OG and L Scorch than the L Code? That L Code is such a huge boat, it is almost in a different class. The M Code is 89 gallons, which is comparable to the 90 gallon L Scorch, and its 8'9" length is in between the L Scorch and OG. I would be interested in knowing the vertical distance from the floor of each kayak (bottom of the hull) to the chine on each side. In other words, if the kayak is flat on the ground, how high up off the ground is the chine on each of these kayaks? In the video, it looked like that measurement would be highest in the Code and lowest in the Scorch, but I couldn't tell for sure. I think that measurement makes a huge difference in how edgy or forgiving the boat will feel because it determines how far you have to lean to one side to engage the chine and how hard the boat will track when put on edge by a water feature. I find the chines on the Scorch L very responsive, but they can also cause it to oversteer and deflect abruptly off water features in surprising ways. I would also be interested to know more about the rocker distribution, from tip to tail, of each of these boats. We know from experience that a more abrupt rocker transition ("kick rocker") feels and responds very different on the water than a more gradual ("progressive") rocker profile. Subtle differences in rocker distribution can make a bigger difference than might appear at a glance. Similarly, I believe each of these boats has a flat section of hull under the seat, which is intended to make the hull plane out and rebound better than a more continuous rocker profile, like we see on a Machno. It would be interesting to compare the length of these flat sections because it determines how far away from center the bow and tail rocker begin. I think you mentioned the reported weight of each boat when you gave the specs, and this seems like a feature where the OG has a clear advantage. The L Scorch, at a reported 54 pounds, is really heavy for a whitewater kayak. The L Code is reportedly 52 pounds, but I have heard its actual weight is higher. If the OG is under 50 pounds, as Waka states, the difference should be noticeable. The weight of the L Scorch is one of its most obvious disadvantages. Thanks again for the cool video!
Thanks Brooks! In hindsight I think the M Code would have fit better into this lineup for me personally, but I think overall comparing the two larges was still a helpful insight (it certainly was eye opening for me!) Good point on the chines - I've never really considered that measurement. On these three boats it would have been very difficult to measure since the Code and Scorch were so worn in (Code absolutely would not sit flat, Scorch had a decent sized weld/oil can). I'm hoping that maybe next year I can do a similar video with some fresh boats and get some more accurate measurements. Agreed on rocker profile and weight as well - I'm glad to hear a call for more detail as I'm always worried about going overboard in these videos and getting too lengthy. FWIW, the OG is definitely much easier to schlep off the water than the other two. The weight and size makes a world of difference. I appreciate all the feedback man!
My name is Hank and I'm a yakoholic. I do have all three. I would agree with 99% of all you said, but that's not the reason I just subscribed. I read a lot of reviews and few provide a good analysis of design elements, link them to effects on performance and make specific recommendations. I would add suggested trim adjustments, but that probably requires more time with the boats. One quick opinion on the OG, it feels like a Machno with edge and control to me.
Hi Hank! We're all yakaholics here. That's so rad - I didn't think there would be a time in life when I'd have any desire to have three creek boats, but after paddling all three of these I genuinely would love to add them all to the quiver! I agree with that assessment of the OG I think, though also I feel like it's a bit faster than the Machno. Thanks man!
Small scorch is great at 5 foot and a bit / 121 lb. Just needs a sweet checks 200. So easy to roll and pretty forgiving. Already inspired enough confidence to get me in trouble ;)
Good to hear that! I know the crew at Pyranha were laser focused on making the small a true small that would be easy for small paddlers to push themselves with. Maybe I'll track somebody down who's a bit smaller than myself and shoot a comparison of small creek boats some time!
Ohhh, not sure off hand. If I were ordering some I’d just roll with the NRS infinity splits for creek boats. I’ve put those in dozens of creekers and they’ve always done well. They make one size for the bow and another for the stern I believe.
Looking to buy my first WW kayak and I’m pretty set on the code. That depends if and when I can even find one but I’m going to take a class before I pursue anything further. I’m 5’11 195-200lbs on any given day. Looking on input if I should seek out a large or a medium. Thanks!
That’s about the same size I was when I paddled the large (I’ve lost about 20 pounds since, so I’d definitely paddle a medium at this point). Even at 195 the large felt very large. If you’re just learning I would go with a medium; it would be much harder to learn to control a boat as big as the large code.
@@HeadwatersKayak thanks for your input! I’m having a hard time finding a class to take where I’m located. The school I was interested in was one state away in PA (I’m in NY) I guess Covid messed up their staff and they currently don’t have instructors. This might be an endeavor for next season and I’ll just keep paddling calm waters in the mean time.
As much as I love the Scorch, it would be a difficult boat to get started in. If you wanted something from Pyranha, the Machno is much more suitable for learning. The OG would be the easiest to learn in of these 3.
honestly, its ok some people start in a halfslice and are fine learning the basics on class 2 and 3 by the time you willbe class IV ready, you will know better what boat you like all of them boats are good, and you being a new paddler, you are clean slate without preference, so chances are, you would enjoy the whitewater in any boat mentioned above
Hey there! You’re really right on the cusp - at this point I’d say it depends on how you want the kayak to perform/what kind of paddling you’re planning on. If you’re planning on running more difficult whitewater and want big skips and a bit more forgiveness, the L would be the way to go. If you’re looking for something that will be a little easier for you to throw around and control, that would be the M. Hope that helps!
Good question: the Code was the only one that I noted being a bit more difficult than the others, which makes a lot of sense because it’s a much bigger boat in all ways than the other two. Beyond that I’d say it’s a toss up between the scorch and the OG. If someone were looking at the smaller sizes of these boats, the Medium scorch would be much easier to roll.
I wouldn't be concerned about the lack of retail involvement, either in sales or local events. Really not much of a factor, and not to hurt anyone's feelings. let's just say outdoor sports dealers have never impressed me or ANY of my outdoor buddies as offering significant help after sale over and above factory contacts. You don't exactly got a Porsche service team at your service when you have an issue.
The Code. I cannot gush enough about it having boated a Mamba for 8 years then getting rid of it. Was in a half slice Axiom/Rewind which I love and they were my only boat for a few years. I wanted a creeker again and then I bought a Code. I am kind of jealous that new boaters these days get to learn on all the modern designs of any maker. This was a really great comparison review. Stumbled on it randomly.
It’s INSANE what a huge design leap dagger did in replacing the mamba with the code. Mamba will always be a special boat in the history of boat design, but the Code is just soooo much better!
Having owned 2 ( OG and Code L) and demo'd a Scorch L you pretty much hit the nail on the head dude. I broke my OG and had a choice of either of the other 2 from local dealers. I bought the Code L, let me qualify a bit. I'm 95-100kg or 210-220 lbs depending on the season, I had been away from Kayaking for 20+ years and I'm not as sharp as I was back then. That bit of forgiveness you talk about in the Code is there for sure. The large is a big boat but handles very well and feels smaller than it is, particularly when in decent water, thats moving fast. Don't be intimidated by the size of it, it's a great boat. Saying that I'd happily go back to the OG. We really are spoiled for choice now!
Thanks for the feedback! Glad to hear you’re digging the code. Crazy that even more options have hit the market since I made this video. The Liquidlogic RMX looks like a pretty promising design as well!
Great review! Thorough details and qualified thoughts! I’m 190, recently bought the Med Code, coming from a Large Mamba then to a Phantom, I feel like the Code is the perfect in between of those two boats. Faster than the mamba, stable and forgiving as the mamba, but can be paddled “slower” than the Phantom while still being in control. Its been such a great “fit” for me that I need to be careful and not get overly confident in it, as it’s allowed me the comfort/confidence to run more challenging water than I would have if still in the Phantom. Anecdotally I feel like the plastic in this new blue code is softer and gouges more than the 6 yr old red mamba. Curious if others have noticed a difference in plastic lately.
Thanks Derich!
That's definitely a great assessment of where the Code falls in with other Dagger models. They discontinued the Mamba to make the Code, so it's basically meant to be just that!
I've seen a few similar mentions of the plastic issues - not just with Dagger but across the board. Part of me wonders if there's a genuine difference in the plastic, or if it has something to do with the designs themselves. If I ever come across an engineer who can break it down for me I'll be sure to do a video on the topic!
I have a code and rewind - plastic is definitely less robust than my previous axiom and mamba, more bendy and gauges more easily. Wondered if it was because plastic has to be recyclable now🤷
@@sbaldwin21 I've seen a similar trend in there sea kayaks over the rears. The new Stratos seems to be so much softer.
I paddled a OG for one season (before I broke it). I am around 220lb, so towards the upper weight of the boat, and found it very responsive and boofed excellently. I was paddling mostly steep creeks in Scotland (class IV).
Great video, Seth. Thanks for putting this together.
Your comments about the sizing of these boats seems dead on. I wonder if the M Code would be more comparable to the OG and L Scorch than the L Code? That L Code is such a huge boat, it is almost in a different class. The M Code is 89 gallons, which is comparable to the 90 gallon L Scorch, and its 8'9" length is in between the L Scorch and OG.
I would be interested in knowing the vertical distance from the floor of each kayak (bottom of the hull) to the chine on each side. In other words, if the kayak is flat on the ground, how high up off the ground is the chine on each of these kayaks? In the video, it looked like that measurement would be highest in the Code and lowest in the Scorch, but I couldn't tell for sure. I think that measurement makes a huge difference in how edgy or forgiving the boat will feel because it determines how far you have to lean to one side to engage the chine and how hard the boat will track when put on edge by a water feature. I find the chines on the Scorch L very responsive, but they can also cause it to oversteer and deflect abruptly off water features in surprising ways.
I would also be interested to know more about the rocker distribution, from tip to tail, of each of these boats. We know from experience that a more abrupt rocker transition ("kick rocker") feels and responds very different on the water than a more gradual ("progressive") rocker profile. Subtle differences in rocker distribution can make a bigger difference than might appear at a glance. Similarly, I believe each of these boats has a flat section of hull under the seat, which is intended to make the hull plane out and rebound better than a more continuous rocker profile, like we see on a Machno. It would be interesting to compare the length of these flat sections because it determines how far away from center the bow and tail rocker begin.
I think you mentioned the reported weight of each boat when you gave the specs, and this seems like a feature where the OG has a clear advantage. The L Scorch, at a reported 54 pounds, is really heavy for a whitewater kayak. The L Code is reportedly 52 pounds, but I have heard its actual weight is higher. If the OG is under 50 pounds, as Waka states, the difference should be noticeable. The weight of the L Scorch is one of its most obvious disadvantages.
Thanks again for the cool video!
Thanks Brooks! In hindsight I think the M Code would have fit better into this lineup for me personally, but I think overall comparing the two larges was still a helpful insight (it certainly was eye opening for me!)
Good point on the chines - I've never really considered that measurement. On these three boats it would have been very difficult to measure since the Code and Scorch were so worn in (Code absolutely would not sit flat, Scorch had a decent sized weld/oil can). I'm hoping that maybe next year I can do a similar video with some fresh boats and get some more accurate measurements.
Agreed on rocker profile and weight as well - I'm glad to hear a call for more detail as I'm always worried about going overboard in these videos and getting too lengthy.
FWIW, the OG is definitely much easier to schlep off the water than the other two. The weight and size makes a world of difference.
I appreciate all the feedback man!
The OG was noticeably easier to shoulder for me do to the weight and design. That's an important thing to note.
Nice that really covered paddler weight. Very helpfull
Glad it was helpful!
My name is Hank and I'm a yakoholic. I do have all three. I would agree with 99% of all you said, but that's not the reason I just subscribed. I read a lot of reviews and few provide a good analysis of design elements, link them to effects on performance and make specific recommendations. I would add suggested trim adjustments, but that probably requires more time with the boats. One quick opinion on the OG, it feels like a Machno with edge and control to me.
Hi Hank! We're all yakaholics here.
That's so rad - I didn't think there would be a time in life when I'd have any desire to have three creek boats, but after paddling all three of these I genuinely would love to add them all to the quiver!
I agree with that assessment of the OG I think, though also I feel like it's a bit faster than the Machno.
Thanks man!
Henry,
If you could only keep one boat which would it be?
@@BladePressure The Code because it's the best all-rounder. The Scorch is more performance oriented and less forgiving in some situations.
Small scorch is great at 5 foot and a bit / 121 lb. Just needs a sweet checks 200. So easy to roll and pretty forgiving. Already inspired enough confidence to get me in trouble ;)
Good to hear that! I know the crew at Pyranha were laser focused on making the small a true small that would be easy for small paddlers to push themselves with. Maybe I'll track somebody down who's a bit smaller than myself and shoot a comparison of small creek boats some time!
I am very curious of how you felt "small" in the large Code. Were waves kicking you around?
Could you all review the new Lifetime Tundra 103 Kayak? Interested in how it tracks, etc. Thank you
If we can get them to send us one we’d love to!
Any idea which airbag size fits the best in the stern and bow of a medium scorch? Looking to buy some for my scorch that is arriving next week
Ohhh, not sure off hand. If I were ordering some I’d just roll with the NRS infinity splits for creek boats. I’ve put those in dozens of creekers and they’ve always done well. They make one size for the bow and another for the stern I believe.
What would you recommend for someone who is 180lb and 5 ft 7?
Medium Code, Large Scorch, or OG are all good options. The OG is the most maneuverable, Scorch fastest, Code overall friendliest.
Looking to buy my first WW kayak and I’m pretty set on the code. That depends if and when I can even find one but I’m going to take a class before I pursue anything further. I’m 5’11 195-200lbs on any given day. Looking on input if I should seek out a large or a medium. Thanks!
That’s about the same size I was when I paddled the large (I’ve lost about 20 pounds since, so I’d definitely paddle a medium at this point). Even at 195 the large felt very large. If you’re just learning I would go with a medium; it would be much harder to learn to control a boat as big as the large code.
@@HeadwatersKayak thanks for your input! I’m having a hard time finding a class to take where I’m located. The school I was interested in was one state away in PA (I’m in NY) I guess Covid messed up their staff and they currently don’t have instructors. This might be an endeavor for next season and I’ll just keep paddling calm waters in the mean time.
I have a code M and its the best all round kayak I have ever owned and I do white water 2 times a week, the code is a ten out of ten kayak
I am a beginner, do you recommend a scorch as the first bottle? I plan to run large volume rivers.
I wouldn’t. It has very hard edges. I would get something a little more forgiving. The Code might be a better choice for you.
As much as I love the Scorch, it would be a difficult boat to get started in. If you wanted something from Pyranha, the Machno is much more suitable for learning. The OG would be the easiest to learn in of these 3.
honestly, its ok
some people start in a halfslice and are fine learning the basics on class 2 and 3
by the time you willbe class IV ready, you will know better what boat you like
all of them boats are good, and you being a new paddler, you are clean slate without preference, so chances are, you would enjoy the whitewater in any boat mentioned above
What about the jk nirvana?
We weren’t able to get our hands on one for this review. We have not spent any time in it.
Hey Seth, I'm 168 and there is a scorch L for sale near me; but I'm thinking that I would be better off in a medium. Your thoughts, please. TIA.
Hey there! You’re really right on the cusp - at this point I’d say it depends on how you want the kayak to perform/what kind of paddling you’re planning on. If you’re planning on running more difficult whitewater and want big skips and a bit more forgiveness, the L would be the way to go. If you’re looking for something that will be a little easier for you to throw around and control, that would be the M. Hope that helps!
@@HeadwatersKayak Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.
Bruh. In Austrlia there is like two or three kayak dealers in the whole country.
Brutal.
I know that all boats are "easy to roll"--but which of these is the easiest to roll?
Good question: the Code was the only one that I noted being a bit more difficult than the others, which makes a lot of sense because it’s a much bigger boat in all ways than the other two. Beyond that I’d say it’s a toss up between the scorch and the OG. If someone were looking at the smaller sizes of these boats, the Medium scorch would be much easier to roll.
@@HeadwatersKayak appreciate the feedback-thanks
Dagger customer service in Colorado.... 💩
Colorado is not special. That’s a nationwide thing. 😂
I wouldn't be concerned about the lack of retail involvement, either in sales or local events. Really not much of a factor, and not to hurt anyone's feelings. let's just say outdoor sports dealers have never impressed me or ANY of my outdoor buddies as offering significant help after sale over and above factory contacts. You don't exactly got a Porsche service team at your service when you have an issue.