The Twins who Terrorized Physicists with a Sock Puppet Army
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- For the longest time, the Bogdanoff brothers were most well known for getting nonsense Ph.Ds. But recently, they've become well know for something entirely different...and much more sinister...
RIP Grichka & Igor Bogdanoff
Part 1: • The Bogdanoffs: The Tr...
Epiphysics blog: ybmessager.free.fr/docs/potpou...
My Patreon and Twitter :
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0:00 Welcome back
0:55 Chapter 6
7:28 Chapter 7
16:18 Chapter 8
22:44 Chapter 9
27:32 Chapter 10
36:55 Chapter 0 - Наука та технологія
Some clarifications regarding my thoughts on the Bog-pill, since it's come up more than a few comments:
In the same way reddit, twitter or any website isn't a hivemind, neither is 4chan. 4chan is a big place with lots of innocuous stuff, I'm not referring to cat pictures and people working on their cars or whatever. If you specifically go digging for the original Bog-pill threads though, what you'll find is pages and pages of slurs and really sickening comments. Jokes or not, that shit is awful. I don't think intention matters if the stuff you're saying is that bad.
But of course the Bog memes get diluted and altered as they're shared around to other sites, and although I personally don't want to engage much with it, I agree that most people sharing the memes are unaware of the origins of them and aren't actively trying to spread any hate. Igor and Grichka are weird guys, I get why people find the memes funny. But imo, given how much weird and meme-able stuff the brothers have legitimately done, I'd argue we can make fun of them without resorting to the Bog-pill stuff. Just my take.
Both recently dead now, six days apart, from cov-19.
I find it strange, hearing the claims they were behind Bitcoin.
I took them to be just another two investors and nothing more, whereas Jake Rothschild bought 14% of Bitcoin in either 2017 or 2018, I can't recall which, but am certain it took a nosedive three months later.
I'm guessing lots of folk got out and others bought in, while it was struggling.
Such is finance...fickle.
@BobbyBroccoli thoughts on their deaths??
That fact on its own isn't, I criticize billionaires all the time. But fixating on specifically Jewish billionaire (Soros also pops up in a few posts in the vid), that's when things get highly sus.
@@BobbyBroccoli I never inferred that the mention of the Rothschilds was supposed to be a "dogwhistle", because people don't have to dogwhistle to be antisemites on 4chan, they are as blatant as they want to be. I just thought the joke was that they were such an immensely wealthy family anyways.
@@fooflateka Yeah, I really don't understand why he used that as the example of anti-semitism, when it is literally making fun of it.
How did this go from "The Bogdannofs are kinda crazy" to "Gay scientists get revenge on the french scientific community"? This is like Chekhov's Concealed Pistol.
Im sorry but "checkov's concealed pistol" is such a good quote that I'm going to use as much as possible from now on
Also hello fellow sakamoto pfp user
They're gay?
@@stellviahohenheim no their doctoral supervisors were.
I love sakamoto
Is absolutely no one going to talk about the fact he made an entire sock puppet show for one small part of this video.
That’s when I hit subscribe
How about the part where when an Australian is introduced, they're upside down?
My favorite part lol
Actually at 46:00 it says it wasn't him. But still it's great that he made that scene.
That's my girlfriend lol, she and I are the hands you see in the video
"Igor and Grichka are not a pair of grandmasters. They're a pair of middle fingers..." My man, that is how you write a conclusion.
"Dr. Yang was just using Igor's computer" has the same vibe as when Ms. Scribe tried to say that it was her live-in nanny that made the sock puppet accounts.
thats exactly what i thought, ms scribe and the crazy christians
Oh my god Clarabella, I forgot about her
AHAHAHAHAHAHA underrated comment. iykyk
Ahhh, memories 😂
"Maybe Alan Sokal does have a true rival after all" - What an end to this saga, that final line lands so cleanly
At least Wikipedia reports him as still alive so he might have time to respond to this.
@@0Clewi0
How will he reply to this though? I dont think hes aware of this videos existence?
@@user-wl2rb3rh5c The way the internet connects with the real world, Twitter [shudders]
I would say his true rivals are the grievances studies affair crew. Peter Boghossian, James Lindsay, and Helen Pluckrose. But i'm guessing by how much Bobby seems to like communism I don't think he has much respect for James Lindsay who has made it his mission to call out marxists.
I know. I wish I had that kind of storytelling prowess.
Every time I think this story can’t get more insane, it somehow manages to ascend to greater heights of madness. Excellent video
like bitcoin plummeting after their death?
Yarwell reality jumped the shark in about 2012
The brothers are like super sayajin 3, they can go even further beyond...
The bogpill is difficult, but it is necessary
Without wishing to glorify them, I saw BobbyBroccoli the other day on the subway in Puerto Rico - I was only in town for a few days as a tourist, but they showed me around. I was "amazed"! We went for coffee, had some really good, deep chats and even a Big Bang of our own. I totally changed my mind about them: they are an amazing guy.
This almost went over my head it's so clever.
Looks like a bunch of babbling and storytelling.. guess you gotta be in on the joke. The very obscure and unfunny joke.
@@RedFail1-1"very obscure" bruh its literally a reference to the video you're commenting on 😂
@@RedFail1-1 yep
@@RedFail1-1Oh, uh, this is from this video. It's a modified copypasta of the Bogdanov's comments about themselves, while pretending to be someone else. So, the sock puppets part.
You _are_ right in that it's only funny in context, but if you're _here,_ the you just need to scroll up to get the context (I'm not being sarcastic, in case that wasn't obvious).
The final twist made me bury my face in my hands. This story was bonkers, but the ending was the jem in the crown, so to speak. Maybe the real PhDs were the lovers that we met along the way
Both of the brothers actually died from COVID about two months after this video. Both were not vaccinated, but their attorney said they weren't anti-vaccination, but hoped their healthy lifestyle provided enough protection.
Source: Their Wikipedia page (Can't post a link as the comment will not be shown then)
Died from COVID? Surely you mean, relinquished their physical forms to live forever in cyberspace?
@@marcasdebarun6879 💯%. Their mortal bodies were limiting them.
@@ALZlper They activated quantum immortality
They died 6 days apart from one another too.
I know they were getting on in years, but I still find it a bit creepy, especially considering the fairly low mortality rate of being covid positive
@@leftysheppey They seem to have caught it at the same moment, which increases the likelihood they both received a high viral load, one of the risk factors for coming down with a serious case.
As a french person I spent my whole childhood (and more) sometimes seeing these guy on TV, never knowing they actually tried to pass as real scientists. To me they were just TV show hosts.
Same for me! Despide that I already knew they were all but scientists (I'm physicist btw) I had no idea that they were known outside the somewhat closed french-speaking community.
Beside that, it would be fair to acknowledge that their TV shows inspired many french kids and oriented some of them towards sciences.
That may well be their biggest contribution to science imho
same!!! je pensais que c'était clair pour tout le monde que c'étaient des personnalités qui faisaient de la vulgarisation scientifique, et qu'ils étaient plus branchés sur la science fiction que sur la science, je savais absolument pas qu'ils avaient essayé de se legitimiser dans la profession de chercheurs scientifiques c'est fou
@@nathanscore d'après ce que j'ai lu dans les reportages du BBC, il semble qu'ils se sont dirigés vers a science fantaisie, en croyant que des conneries leurs protégeraient contre la covid. Ils n'ont certainement pas étudier la biophysique....
Pareil, je ne savais pas du tout qu'ils avaient eu des doctorats et qu'ils faisaient des procès à droite à gauche pour intimider leurs critiques...
Regarding antisemitism in France:
I can't speak to it personally, but my mother's told me the story of the month she spent in high school, going to a French school in 1981. She didn't tell anybody she was Jewish, and the moment they found out, she was the victim of ridicule from the host family and the other students, the hosts complaining that they wanted to host a real American, not a Jew. Antisemitism in France, at least in the early 80's, was a real thing, and very well could have been by the time the Bogdanoffs entered the field, and the line of sight of Flato.
That’s very important to consider
This sounds hard to believe. After the US, France has the largest Jewish population outside of Israel.
@@javiermesa-martinez8731 it that Jewish population moved there after the WWII the immigration could’ve brought out the antisemitism in the public. Sadly that happens a lot
@@placeholderdoeFrance has had a significant Jewish population since Roman times. Many important French historical, artistic, academic, and celebrities were/are Jewish.
No denying that, like in the rest of the world, France also had their own antisemitic issues (and anti other minority groups). But the cartoonish scenario the previous poster presented is bordering the ridiculous, specially in France in the 80s.
FWIW; the whole "international elites" is a common conspiracy theory trope that includes not just the Jews, but the Jesuits, the Freemasons, the WASPs, etc. Groups that have little to do with each other, which is why they are usually the tell tale symptom of the ramblings of people, experiencing mental health issues, like these twins. Generalizing an entire country as being antisemitic based on the ramblings of 2 mentally ill people is also not particularly healthy.
Cheers.
@@javiermesa-martinez8731 For what it's worth, I never said that my mother only experienced antisemitism, only that her host family and some other students treated her like that and thus it's reasonable to say that it was present in France during that time period. I can't speak more to her experience or the extent of it, since that was over 40 years ago and I only know what she told me.
You know, I'd like to imagine that in an alternate reality Igor and Grichka failed to make it to TV and decided to pursue their PhD's normally, becoming regular scientists in the process.
I've noticed with my German best friend that you can nail down someone's native language through grammatical errors. Over the several years Ive talked to her and learning some German myself, it's really easy to pick out a native German speaker in a forum or whatnot. We saw this with the Bog sock puppets and the French mistakes. If any of you are familiar with how people of other languages tend to write english, you have a pretty cool skill that can come in handy! Especially for things like internet investigations like this
Same with Chinese, Russian
@azimuth Russian speaker is indistinguishable from native. Don't let lack of articles fool you.
You shoulda chosen a different example. Germans are easiest to spot because they feel the need to mention their nationality every chance possible. I'm German, by the way.
@@rippspeck haha they begin every sentence with “In Germany, we…”
@@777jones I have never seen this kind of behaviour around here in germany.
Forget the Bog-Pill, I am Broccoli pilled, these videos are stellar my dude. I love learning about weird and obscure stories like this and you do a tremendous job of presenting them in a fascinating way.
Love how this was all over and still being called "obscure"
You're American? Just curious since this was a kinda big deal in, especially France, but Europe over all :)
@@ghostoflazlo Please excuse my ignorance on a subject that was not deemed newsworthy due to my geographical location. I'm actually Cuban by the way.
@@DanielSantosAnalysis lol, just take the L and realize this is not ObScuRe just because you haven't heard about it
@@ghostoflazlo Never seen anyone act so condescending and smug over something so benign, whatever floats your boat I suppose.
@@ghostoflazlo put more effort in ur baiting pls
"you have NO POSTS"
fucking brutal
"Animated in Blender"
"Edited in Vegas"
As someone who unironically edits videos in Blender, this made me laugh so much. Good on you for avoiding Blender's cludgy video editing tools.
The final revelation of the revenge being carried on by his life partner is kinda wholesome even tho it is extremely sad, the academia can indeed be very much close minded and toxic.
I think one has to be careful with statements like that. Granted, it's possible, but the quote was "gay, Jewish and right-wing" and given right-wingers victim complex it could well be that all those slights were simply perceived and never real. Particularly super hard science like mathematics is very non-prejudicial. Obviously, like I said, it's possible that it all was about prejudice, but we only have the word of someone who'd willingly sacrifice the reputation of himself, his field and his institution for revenge. I wouldn't promote someone with that attitude.
@@DrZaius3141 while i get where you are coming from, just because fields are non-prejudicial might not apply to the institution. getting recommended by his non-judgmental peers only for the ones with the purse strings to snub him is still a possibility.
hell the truth could just be they thought he was an asshole due to him thinking they were homophobic antisemites.
@@DrZaius3141 I'm sorry, but very much lol at thinking any stem subject being non-prejudicial.
That's your takeaway? You have no clue what _wholesome_ means me thinks
@@JH-ji6cj why?
Flato: I have purposely trained the Bogdanoffs wrong, as a joke
i wouldnt say "a joke"
id say "Spite"
@@TheSimmr001 If you haven't been informed yet, you are missing that it's a reference to _Kung Pow: Enter the Fist_ (IIRC)
@@PurpleShift42 ah. fair enough.
"my dissertation to your tabloid technique, how do you like it?"
"My PhD has been rescinded, making me the victor."
This is super random, but I really appreciate that you're pronouncing the various non-English-derived names (at least to my ears) more or less how they should be pronounced. It bothers the heck out of me when people create a compelling, well-researched documentary, and then don't even bother to look up how to properly pronounce the names of those featured in it.
Edit: holy mess, that zinger at the end totally recontextualizes the entire story
Can't say the same about the Slavic names though...
@@IllidanS4 I think it’s partially because he’s Canadian and from very close to Quebec so he knows French pretty well
Idk names are names, names are bullshit, unless you have some context to the language it’s from, pronouncing a name correctly is very hard.
@@draketurtle4169 You can literally put the name into Google Translate and let it read it for you.
@@IllidanS4 there is big difference between having something read to you from someone who knows how to actually pronounce the word (the actual sounds that make up that word) and saying a word (without the knowledge of those individual sounds that make it up).
Depending on your first language some sounds common in other languages don’t even exist.
Like if there are few words where you ‘roll an R’ you might struggle to do this because it’s something you have never had to do with your muscles.
mentioning their plasitic surgieries only in the context of their body dismorphia and never once ridiculing them (for this), @BobbyBroccoli is a pure class act.
Agree 100% - refusing to punch down on them for this is one of several aspects of BB's style that elevates him way above the level of most journalism and documentary filming. He kinda leaves you to consider for yourself whether all these behaviors stem from some deep and serious neuroses.
Watching this now, I really appreciate the time to rebuke comments on the twins physical appearance. As a person who struggles with body appearance stuff I really appreciate you taking the time to have a little empathy about their issues and criticise them on their actual wrongdoing not their personal problems
I think it's an interesting question in general, whether or not body appearance jokes are immoral. I think it comes down to the presentation/intent; sometimes jokes are used as a way to 'put people in their place', deserved or not. I don't think that this kind of usage of body appearance jokes is personally acceptable, save for when the butt of the joke thinks they're hot stuff for a particular appearance and they try to assert their superiority in taste or otherwise act chauvinistic about their identity.
People can intend multiple things even with an identical word set and syntax, and different people can say the exact same thing in the same context but it actually being meant two very distinct ways- such is the imperfection of language. I don't think it's right to condemn an entire dimension of humor over that distinctly cruel dimension of body appearance humor, since you can find it in pretty much every flavor of humor.
I don't mind confronting our intentions in using a particular kind of humor, whether it be broadly or individually, and regardless if one chooses to engage in body humor or not I agree that it's a good exercise in empathy and intellectual honesty to acknowledge whatever lead the Bogs to modify their body like they did, but I hope that you don't misattribute all jokes about physical appearance to be rooted in cruelty
(An example of body appearance jokes being definitively not cruel in nature, in my view, is showing the Bogandovs as the chad meme because of their uncanny resemblance- being a chad is usually a positive spin)
@@beansworth5694 There is this thing about morbidly obese health ministers in certain countries.
I'd say they are not strictly immoral if they are at least related to the underlying issue. And then there also is the issue on how much the person is contributing to their outside appearance.
@@beansworth5694 this is a weirdly defensive and irrelevant comment lol, op didn't ask whether body image jokes are immoral, or claim that all jokes about physical appearance are rooted in cruelty
@@jugbrewer I can see how you'd get that impression, and to be honest looking back on OP's comment it was a bit in bad taste to immediately use his comment on his feelings to springboard a conversation about ethics in humor.
Felt like it was relevant enough at the time to provoke me making that reply, though, because it was something the original video that got me thinking about
@@graealex Yeah, the thing with the obese health ministers falls into a similar category as rebuking someone for being unduly chauvinistic about their identity, as the health ministry is the butt of the joke rather than the obese individual
Although, I don't really think that a person's contribution to their personal appearance justifies a joke alone: a person who made a bad choice being humiliated for it isn't very moral if there isn't some sort of payoff for their or others' benefit. The Bogandovs, for example, had all the choice in the world when it came to looking how they do, but it's a choice that can't be reversed at the realization that it looks silly for a number reasons, (some more obvious than others).
Making fun of a person or situation in private, where those it concerns can't be harmed and where there is an understanding that the humor is a coping mechanism or leisure activity rather than a reinforcement of a hierarchy is rarely immoral, though, imo. The jokes one makes with their in-group are only accountable to the effect that the irreverence may have rather than the irreverence itself, in my moral framework
Absolutely phenomenal video. I especially loved how the last line tied everything together. Keep it up!
Unfortunately, the brothers are now deceased.
@@SoaringMoon wow, I didn't know... sad and tragic, 6 days apart...
Really, that last line was chillingly good. This guy is great story teller and journalist. He should make this in podcast form too
The great reveal.
@@u.v.s.5583 Their final ages were roughly 6 days and 40 minutes apart.
Dumb little fact I dug around and found. Maybe a few more hours between it, but Igor's the older one.
"In late 2016... Things moved to 4chan."
Oh fuck, here we go.
Probably biggest shock I have in videoessay since "They went to Qanon" in Fielding Ideas flat earth video.
In Serbia where I currently live, a Megatrend degree (any megatrend degree) costs about 4000 € (just under 5000 USD), you literally buy it, they keep "phantom students" in their records, so once a buyer comes, his info is put instead of that phantom student, then you go take a picture with a few professors so it looks like you really did go there, and you have a "clean" diploma, takes less than a month.
While this is true, it's (possibly) not the full story. I have a friend who studied economics and management there, and according to him you can actually study there legitimately and earn an honest degree... If you desire to do so. So there are legit professors doing proper work there, it's just that members of the "Serbian elite" may also purchase ready-made diplomas as well.
The Sminem meme can be analyzed pretty closely. He represents a poor, downtrodden average person, unable to afford better clothing than bootleg T-shirts. He represents the average person’s ability to get rich from crypto. The Bogs are, uh, meant to represent Jewish people keeping him down.
It's also funny how people's reaction to it is "it's just a meme". They don't want you to think about it too much, they just want you to spread the meme. Those who don't get it might find it funny, but those who *really* get it will feel validated in their bullshit beliefs that still needs cryptic messaging...
Circles do as Circles are.
@@RaveDecoy242 Or, people who really get it and find it funny have no concerns for the bad actors who repurpose edgy humor to justify their batcrap beliefs.
Then again, with a stupid concept such as dogwhistles, there's no such thing as playing the fool for a cheap laugh at the expense of people with harmful delusions. To do that would only serve to perpetuate those beliefs, no matter how absurd the context is.
@@darkfool2000 Yeah, you think you get it but you just don't. But most children don't understand how the world works and laugh at stuff to not feel left out. You'll catch up in time. For some it might take a while, everybody matures at a different rate - even when it comes to the brain. Don't beat yourself up over it!
Oh shit. I had no idea. If that's really what 4channers mean to spread when using this meme it's actually fucked up as it can draw the general public into their extreme circles through seemingly innocent memes.
OMG! The plot-twist in the end was breathtaking. Even though I am not a physicist, I still had goosebumps with the Flato revelation.
I'm not to that point yet, I can't wait!
@@WobblesandBean
What did you think? :)
@@user-wl2rb3rh5c incredibly melancholy actually.... It's sad seeing what a person will do for love, including potentially putting his job on the line.... But it does make perfect sense. I would probably do the same thing if i was in his shoes.
Kinda made me teary...
@@swarnimvajpai6373
Don't know what I prefer, Bogs rulling the world, or them being the small puppets being played by everyone, cant we get a solution somewhere in the middle?😅
You have a tremendous talent for eliciting genuine, nuanced empathy for people who do shitty things
We should all work harder to do this. E all are bound to mess up.
I was thinking this same thing but couldn't quite figure out how to say it - you put it into words perfectly. I have so much respect for how well Broccoli can blend "this person is *odd* " with well researched and fully sourced (as far as I can tell) critique, while always treating everyone from the best to the worst as a human being so naturally, and never as a joke. The moment of this video that summarises that best for me was "I don't know if the brothers know about the bogpill meme, and for their sakes I hope they never do."
Yes!! One of my favorite things about this channel is that it's fundamentally empathetic
I didn't expect the end to hit me like that. To think this all might have stemmed from the indignity and anger against oppression, and in a sense love in a world that forbid it. It left a sense of tragedy and helplessness in my mouth.
Sokal's paper might have been satire, but if true, Flato amd Sterheimer's efforts were far greater, and feels extremely bittersweet. Like they pulled off something incredible but ultimately born out of the inability to do anything else about the injustices they faced.
(And just in case people decide to oversimplify things, Flato being a right wing voter does not make the anti-semiticism or homophobia he faced any less significant, nor his struggle against them any less legitimate).
Just wanna say, I LOVE the domino motif. Visually stunning and an excellent follow-through from the pendulum mentioned in the last video.
I only realized they were dominoes after reading this comment lmao I'm dumb
@@guy-sl3kr yeah I thought they were phone cases lol
@@kai_fatallysapphic LOL, same
RIP to Gritchka. May he dump it from the high heavens
I can't believe I found this out from a comment
@@BobbyBroccoli Igor also died about 6 days after Grichka.
@@definitelynotofficial7350 Eh. They were both unvaccinated, they're Darwin Awards at best.
@@WobblesandBean They Bogged so hard, they Bogged themselves.
@@BobbyBroccoli They believed Didier Raoult was right apparently, and were unvaccinated indeed.
Wonderful storytelling. Especially fitting that you were able to summarise the events at the end as cleanly as you did.
On the twist:
As an academic ... I get it. I don't like it, but I understand it completely.
wow. just wow! the depth of research, the sensitivity and empathy shown in this documentary is beautiful. (not to mention the animations) And the awareness of memes, social cues, dogwhistles, and "man-o-sphere" is epic. Youve pulled in many disciplines and ended this documentary with appropriate dignity and compassion. Fantastic. Brilliant.
The production quality is just too good at this point! I don't know why you're so underrated but I really hope your channel blows up in the near future. Keep it up!!!
Ya this channel is gonna blow up.
@@iruleatgames There are open socialists on UA-cam with millions of subscribers, you complete weirdo
Agreed, these videos are terrific. Keep up the great work and the subscribers will follow.
That intro though
Heheh it finally has w the latest video (that's why I'm here)
I didn't expect this story to end on such a beautiful and teary note.
Beware, broccoli already has a specific meaning on french twitter
@@mathieuguenet5360 Oh? And what's that?
@@Thehouseoffail it's a lesbian pride symbol!
@@mathieuguenet5360 That's awesome. I love it!
@@Thehouseoffail I don't know if it's still actively in use, it was a reference to an absurdist comic strip
I have no recollection of why the hell I wrote this specifically under your comment though
The sock puppets bit was really well done! Don't limit yourself to physics dramas, your storytelling is outstanding.
"sorry, did i keep you waiting?" no since i just found this channel and have been binge watching all day but daaaamn okay i'm officially entranced, i love this presentation style and pacing and it is making this stuff so interesting even though i dont havrvany background in these topics!
I like how the sock puppets slowly degenerate into Lovecraftian horrors.
the production quality of this series Bog-gles my mind man...
I absolutely love the imagery of dominos to represent the different chapters and how they have relevant symbols that can be understood after the chapter has been finished. This video is really a work of art
Seeing this over a year later, knowing about their passings, and then hitting the final twist towards the end of the video brought me to tears. 😭
Such a fantastic production! Thank you so much for all of your hard work!
i'm a young adult from france, and i knew the bogdaoffs just like everyone in the country, as public figures who did tv shows on science and who brought people to be more interested in science, but who ultimately did more vulgarization work and public figure things than anything. from my point of view, the only controversies i knew about the brothers were about their faces, people were speculating on whether they had a genetic disease that modified their faces or if they had body dysmorphia and underwent plastic surgery to enhance their appearances. i had absolutely no idea they went against the CNRS or tried to contribute to science as researchers. it seems to me that most people had good things to say about them, because lots said they were humble, kind guys and made them dream of becoming scientists when they were younger, or made them interested in science fiction. maybe it's because i was born in 2000 and was too young to remember about the marianne stuff, but all of that was unknown to me. thanks so much for making such an enjoyable documentary available to everyone, i'm sure you put a lot of hard work into this and i'm sure i'm not the only one so thankful to have stumbled upon your work.
I'm on the cusp of getting my Bachelor's degree in Physics and yesterday I watched the whole Jan Hendrik Schon affair and today the Bogdanoff affair. I really enjoy and appreciate the work you do on this channel, informing everyone about these insanely cool stories and giving a physics undergrad like me names to avoid reading from. Keep up the good work!
P.S: I only found your channel yesterday but now there's two kind of broccoli I like. Subscribed!
Another physics major here, just found his channel. My PhD supervisor did his PhD under mcuen before the move from Berkeley to Cornell. In condensed matter in grad school, Henrik's name comes up as a cautionary tale...
The thing that keeps me on UA-cam are these massively fucking talented people making these amazing pieces. This dude is going to have 1 mill within a couple years, if not sooner. The amount of effort put into your content is AMAZING and you definitely have something that’s very unique on UA-cam, especially in this genre. Not only that but you have a repertoire of vids to watch for dem channel minutes lol. Love the content! Please don’t stop!
cannot believe he called it “the bogpocalypse” instead of the “abogalypse”
Dude. That ending is just... [Chef's kiss]. Outstanding work on both videos. For a struggling writer, currently wrestling through stagnation and creative drought, this was nothing short of an inspiration to watch.
F--king bravo, man. Bravo.
It seems a pretty big jump from "their thesis advisor may have felt wronged by the establishment" to "he engineered all of this as an elaborate FU to the French educational community."
A paranoiac French professor that just want his revenge from academia during his last years... Did you hear about professor Raoult ? Old professor have an habit to explode during their last years for different reasons. It is not very surprising.
@@darkfool2000 glory, perhaps, but not money. A phd is almost free in France.
this was incredible, ive yet to find another channel that does these kinds of deep dives into modern scientific academia. there were MULTIPLE moments where i either audibly gasped or was left with my jaw hanging open when some twist was revealed
I want you to know that I really appreciate you taking the time and care to address the Nazi situation in the way that you did. You always seem to understand the responsibilities of being a content creator in a way that I have the utmost respect for. You could have left that part silent but instead you addressed it head-on and made a definitive stand.
Kudos.
I was wondering how you where going to explain Sminem lmao. You're doing great work on here btw, you are a huge inspiration to me and I cannot wait to see more from you
didn't expect to feel like crying at chapter 0, but here we are! "maybe alan sokal _does_ have a true rival after all." man...
Just found your channel. Subbed after the first video. While I'm not a physics person (I went to law school because I hate math), I can appreciate making not so easy to undertand material more understanding, and the fact that the editing is really professional just adds to the whole experience. I will be looking forward to more videos! Cheers from a new fan.
Been in love with your content lately. I absolutely LOVED how everything just came crashing down and it's just so mind blowing to see the start of the brothers and to the last line. Loved it, great job!
That may just be one of the greatest finales to any documentary I've ever seen. Sir, this two parter is an absolute masterpiece, and now at the end I feel like I've really learned about a story of real people. Not caricatures, not public personas, but real people with real flaws and bonds to each other. Fantastic work.
wow. That final chapter really tied up all the loose ends into one concise picture of humanity... in all it's various flawed forms. We're all just people. And people are all kinds of fucked up. Just wow. Along with part 1 this was a wild and entertaining trip. Great work.
the ending line was incredible, gave me chills. excellent documentary and i agree 100% with your stance on the memes
okay that sock puppet show you did was "transcendent" thank you for this, i can't believe it took me this long to find your channel. time to binge all of it :D
I find this whole story absolutely fascinating, great work.
However, I don't find your conclusion surrounding Moshé Flato as clear cut as you make it sound. It makes for a fitting end, sure, but we're making big conjectures around the intentions of a man who died 20 years ago, especially when they're coming from someone who was sued by the Bogdanoffs.
Thank you for the videos nonetheless. Looking forward to your next work. :)
Appreciate the comment, that section was one I thought a lot about how to present, and I'm sure I could have gone about it in a more open-ended way. I'm definitely willing to admit that I have a bit of a narrator's bias because it fits so nicely into the story, as well as Alain not being some neutral 3rd party with his own biases.
Regardless of Flato's personal motivations I think it's fairly concrete that there was pushback at both U Bordeaux and later U Burgundy to give these two TV stars PhDs, especially because they were trying to cut corners left and right. Whether it was a personal motivation or not, Flato and Sternheimer would have had to fight tooth and nail to even get the twins to their thesis defense, and fight even harder to pass them. For me, that motivation made the pieces of the puzzle fit the best, but I'm sure it's not the full picture either.
@@BobbyBroccoli The fact that they would have had to fight that much for those two incompetent weirdos certainly raises questions, I admit it is a compelling argument.
Again, great work on the video and the research behind it!
Yeah, I don't think he laid out the facts of that scenario really independently. I thought it was a little strange that he, while for some good reasons, lambasted all the conspiracies theories in the video, decided to end the video with his own conspiracy theory that is only really supported by a biased source.
@@macicoinc9363 "Ur mum's a conspiracy theory" is a more solid comment than the paragraph you've just vomited up.
@@a2pabmb2 I think he's practicing for his PhD.
RIP Bogdanoffs. You weren’t perfect humans by any means, but intentionally or not, you brought happiness to many people. Isn’t that all anyone could ask for?
The Bogdanoffs certainly were two of the more interesting walking piles of stardust that I have been fortunate enough to share this planet with.
They passed away? Well that's tragic
@@partlycloudy7707 Yea, they died of Covid after refusing the vaccine, stating their healthy lifestyles would be adequate protection.
@@partlycloudy7707yeah they got murdered, truly tragic
@@everythingpony
...Your php fits your words so well😂
But alas, you're right. The COVID Killer spared no expense.
Absolutely marvelous storytelling. The narration really strings you along and paints a picture that can only be seen once the last brush stroke is laid on the canvas.
These deep dives are some of the best content I have ever seen. Not only on youtube but in all media. These videos are documents and works of art. Thank you. You are definitely already up there in the hall of fame.
ngl, this two part documentary had me hooked way harder than any big blockbuster movie. the ending was way better, too. amazing work.
Dearest BobbyBroccoli I just found your channel and even though I'm not usually big on anything science, I've become obsessed with your channel and I'm learning a lot. Thank you
anything serious about sciences mostly overwhelm me and fly over my head, but ive been super intrigued and invested in the shoen series you made, and now this. id love to watch more of your videos.
To be fair, can you imagine having your thesis being under THIS level of scrutiny?
I'm not even defending their work, only how being under a public microscope (involving people from across the world) would be quite embarrassing. Especially when they took all that time off work & tried to go under the radar, only to have it dug up & ripped apart for years 🤣
It's funny, but it's also kind of sad. After all the work & effort my wife put into her dissertation, I would be horrified to find out years later people suddenly decided to make it the focus of internet mockery & pushing a conspiracy that it was all a deliberate hoax.
I felt kinda bad for them getting dogpiled: yeah sure, their doctorate-thesisses were not very good, but they got officially accepted. And then later some of the people from that comittee publicly reversed their judgement: that seems unfair when there hasn't been fraud or anything.
Also it makes you wonder if your own thesis might have been bad but the people supposed to judge it couldn't take the time to make sure it was good and just gave you the PhD because it looked like you had done the work.
Also while being asked to get papers published and then you get your PhD is weird, my university requires you to have X papers out + Y conferences to be able to present your PhD in the first place, so they probably do rely a fair bit on that to make sure your work is legit.
@@meneldal as shown by his other videos on academia, a lot of this is based off of trust, so to have something published 5 times (which I’m guessing he figured there was no need for 5 unique through some loop hole of wording) then yeah they trusted that he did actually deserve that phd for his efforts at least.
I pretty much immediately thought this. As outlandish or even just wrong their ideas may be, they did seem to legitimately want to earn their PhDs and from the sounds of it their did earn them. The way it being earned is on the committee and it seemed as though it was for their own ambition. To have it be made a meme when they probably thought it was good work, especially good enough to earn a PhD is pretty sad.
@@meneldal As someone who experienced major imposter syndrome towards the end of my MA, to the point where I got so tangled up with my research that I straight-up asked one of my committee members if my thesis was still actually making any sense, this story elicited the exact kind of anxious paranoia you're describing.
It was funny when I heard "We bow to the Bogs"(in 4chan rundown), because "Bog" means "God", so it is natural to bow to the Gods😀 In fact the name "Bogdan" means something "like given by God" in old Slavic languages and it is possible they thing about themselves as Holy gift and that others should be admiring them.
Like the Raelians... yup. Somehow, it's a particular kind of crazy that the French have a soft spot for - Scientology was never very popular here, but disguise youself as an alien into meditation, public nudity, world peace (through no particular action but "concerned outrage" and letter-writing) and enemas, and you're golden. That and the Christian branches/cults into polygamy and incest.
Бог пил...
@@IvanDmitriev1 thanks for the nonsense
@@IvanDmitriev1 what?
No Bogs now, huh?
God, that end was beautiful. I think you paced the last two chapters very very well, and it is certainly a compelling narrative. Also, the that horn piece you used for the outro is gorgeous.
Your music credit slide at the end makes an excellent video even better! Thank you, I wish more creators would do this!
Every time you said the phrase "the brothers" a scene of them side by side crossing their arms played in my head.
I watched both parts back to back after being caught off guard by the first part, I initially put it on to listen in the background but the presentation was too fantastic to miss.
Absolutely phenomenal work on the animation and presentation with extensive commentary.
Seriously mate, brilliant videos and great work, your channel deserves a lot more attention.
What an amazing documentary(both parts)
Only just discovered your channel. Looking forward to watching more of your work.
Again another great video. I'm absolutely amazed by the quality of work you produce. I will gladly watch upcoming videos and hope to see you reach the audience you deserve. Great work.
I really appreciate you trying to read the french title, it's something a lot just translate because french can be hard and as a french it makes me happy
also from a french point of view the bogdanoff twins were well liked, because they simplified science and gave a lot of dreams, to normal people with their shows and without the knowledge to really understand what they said.
Wow, I really hope this one gets as much traction as the first part because honestly I found it even more interesting. An absolutely wild story about a topic I would never have been very interested in if not for your excellent presentation style. You’ve definitely earned a sub from me
God your channel is a goldmine, your personality, research, narration, ... You keep going the extra mile and I can't help but get excited for all your videos I haven't yet seen
These videos are so good!
The visuals are always either a great aid to information flow or highly entertaining. Love the resurgence of the sock puppet theater bit in the end ❤😁!
Thank you for these, the writing seems very considerate and thought through. The world is a better place for having them in it 😊
Twelve minutes in, but those sock puppets are some beautiful Lovecraftian nightmares! EDIT: the ending was really touching and I agree with your final statement.
Just found your channel and want to say, thank you. You are so very kind in these videos, making sure you represent people fairly and with respect.
This is one of the most attention grabbing, intense and well executed intros to a video I've seen here in a long time. Editing is seriously top notch! I've rewatched a few times, and it forced me to pay attention every time. Seriously well done!!
I come back and just watch the intro by itself probably once a month. It's probably one of the best on the entire site.
It's very unfortunate that I discovered this channel now and not a few years later. The docu series published in the last year and the topics presented are so unexpectedly interesting. Unfortunately there just isn't enough of it!
Keep at it
You make it sound like the memes were diluted in a deliberate attempt to make that sort of hate palatable. The much more likely scenario, in my opinion, is that people who are not full of hate towards specific people thought that the jokes around the brothers were funny enough that they picked the parts that they liked and left behind the hate. Memes are transitory and transform rapidly, parts either get lost in transition or are simply not considered a focal point of a new interpretation. Parts of the original being deplorable are not at all indicative of how the current versions are used, especially after the memes got popular. Your, at least apparent, outlook is similar to that which made simple pictures of frogs somehow a symbol of hate-filled people just because those people desperately wish it were true. It's ridiculous, and the very idea creates more memes to laugh at the prospect that those awful people should be given the power to annex a meme as their own.
I'm surprised this has so few views. The production quality is quite high, and the research is even higher. Loved the sock puppet theater. Academics are very much still people, and Flato couldn't have found a better pair of middle fingers.
You know, the original version of this script specially mentioned Pepe the frog. I get that memes are transitory, but imo some of the bogpill meme elements are still best left behind
@@BobbyBroccoli tbf you can still make fun of shit like the Rothschilds without actually believing in the """"""Nazi dogwhistle"""""". the joke to the layman is that, at a time, they were part of some of the most powerful families of 18th and 19th century Europe. if were being completely honest here the people who unironically think these memes are as racist or hate-filled as when they originated and think that "meaning and intent is objective and therefore it never changes" still have that conflict live in their head rent free until they simply lack the ability to enjoy anything in life. imo they are about as bad, if not worse than the 4chin neckbeards they claim to be railing against.
Otherwise i have enjoyed both of these episodes and i anticipate further content. you clearly have a talent at what you do and you will go far.
Look, I'm willing to accept we have a difference if opinion here and I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thoughts. I've clarified in my pinned comment that I agree that bogpill stuff is diluted and changed as it spreads from site to site, and most people are not aware of the origins. Memes are evolve, and I don't think people should stop using Pepe the frog or whatever. But are you actually gonna say that my stance is somehow worse than the pages and pages of awful slurs and racism in the original 4chab threads? Have you seen them? I didn't include them in my video for obvious reasons but "both sides are just as bad, if not worse" feels like a cop-out.
@@BobbyBroccoli to clarify I wasn't talking about your stance in particular, I'm more or less referring to the more radical stances on this subject that are mostly talked about/parroted on Reddit, Twitter and other similar websites. I'm going to be honest that this was a generalization that was the result of observations I had noticed over the years. If my prior comment was interpreted as a personal criticism directed towards you then I apologize as that was not the direction that I was trying to take.
@@DreadPirateRoberts121 Ah okay, I understand. Sorry I've been getting an influx of comments ever since the twins passed away and there has been a significant portion leaving some vindictive stuff. Hard to tell everyone's intentions through it all.
Yesterday I saw your video about Schön. Now I watched this one of the Bog brothers. I'm astounded by the amazing quality by telling this academic narrative but also making some very interesting and important comments on society as a whole. Hats off to you, BobbyBroccoli, keep it up!
The work on the tiny theatre and how you painted the curtains. Gorgeous work, thank you. If I pay youtube premium is for you.
Your documentaries are really something man. I love your work so far, visuals and storytelling alike.
I am so glad I found your videos, honestly looking forward to seeing what you'll make, I can tell your channel will be huge.
This series was so in-depth and amazingly well-researched!
Thanks for the amazing content and sleuthing!
Discovered your channel last night. This vid was the one that made me subscribe. Excellent work getting a person with very little interest in science and physics to pay attention and enjoy your content.
Truly a well constructed informational video. Listening to the ending credits, I feel I had journeyed many miles, through many years and experienced a powerful range of emotions. My thanks to you Bobby, may the road rise to meet you.
I'm only here for the amazing editing and voice work I would have never watched a story like that, but this one is just sooo good that it made me watch your other videos. Love your work❤️
These are extremely rewatchable
Thanks alot for making them
Just found your channel. I am LIVING for these academia drama documentaries! You are so talented and I am really enjoying your content!!
How does this Channel only have
If you think popularity ever has anything to do with quality, I have some real bad news
The quality of your production just keeps going up, damn. That sock puppet scene !
The commitement
I absolutely enjoyed watching your video! It is really well produced and narrated that even without any prior knowledge or interest it kept me invested in the story. Props to you guys, please keep up the good work :D
this video was absolutely phenomenal. great work, and great research! i hope to see much more from your channel:)
its just criminal to see such high quality content gets so low exposure, great work tho, keep it up
Wow! Your documentaries are so good! The style of narration and pacing is phenomenal and the emotional ending just feels so satisfying as a resolution to the whole story! Just as with your documentary on Jan Hendrik Schön a view count of 50k is far to low for such high quality work.
If nothing else, this is the best testament for blender and vegas being amazing software.
God damn, how have I not found this channel earlier? How does this not have ALL the views on youtube? F**king phenomenal research, beautiful visuals, absolutely amazing story telling.
Daaaaang, what a story and what a presentation! A roller coaster to the end, and I ended the ride feeling quiet sadness. Superb work.
Damn I did not expect that plot twist. Also wanted to say your videos are amazing and I can't believe you're only at 30k subs. I'll be with you when you reach a million.