good subject. I use one for checking line currents on 3 phase motors on slow faults before I look elsewhere. also check the current in neutrals on 3ph supplies. clamp testers do confirm a lot and can put your mind to rest after selecting cable sizing/install. for industrial purposes both installations and machines invaluable.
good subject. I use one for checking line currents on 3 phase motors on slow faults before I look elsewhere. also check the current in neutrals on 3ph supplies. clamp testers do confirm a lot and can put your mind to rest after selecting cable sizing/install.
The low current readings can be for flame rectification currents used on most boilers. I think clamp meters are favoured by a lot of HVAC guys in the States.
Good videos watching this one made me check my clamp meter as it’s the same as your TIS one, got mine a few years ago of the Niceic shop and there own branded. My range 200ma, 2A ,150A
fun fact. . . to visualize the true rms value of an AC voltage, look at a piece of A4 paper. This uses the same ratio. If the long side is 1, then the short side is 0.707 (one over the square root of two). So if you think of the short side as representing 240 volts, the long side can represent the actual input voltage. Not very often you see sparky's going on about waveforms :-)
I'm no expert but apparently it's quite common for VFDs to have a current sensing input from 4 to 20 mA to control the motor speed, so perhaps this is one possible use for the 20 mA range. I believe the purpose of this control method is to allow the speed to be set by a PLC or microcontroller without worrying what voltage the control signals are, and without it having to generate a different voltage than whatever it is supplied with - it can just feed its supply voltage (whatever that may be) to the VFD, varying the current to adjust the motor speed.
Hello Dave, it is possible that the microamp feature is used for HVAC applications where you take a microamp measurement of a flame sensor for a furnace to determine if the sensor is working or not. I agree though with your thoughts about how the manual illustrates using this microamp feature, it is rather strange. Considering that it is illustrating measuring in parallel, my guess would be that there is some sort of shunt within that portion of the clamp meters measuring circuit.
I bought the TIS... was ok for small stuff but had a problem with a big office block with total 49ma but the TIS with its dumb 20mA max couldn’t identify so went to the Megger which works exactly the way you want
Hi Dave, great videos! Thanks for taking the time away from your premium subscriptions to accommodate the productions! Wondered if earth leakage was more important than ever now given the cost of energy! Was trying to work out a cost value in excessive earth leakage. I.e. a standard 7-8mA leakage reading for a domestic household could be reduced to potentially 4-5mA by switching off leaky appliances etc. Earth clamp metres show the reading as an instantaneous reading (presumably) so applying power equations we’d need to convert to mAh… Any idea how to do this ? Thinking of offering a service to the vulnerable to calculate current earth leakage and how to reduce their wasted energy. Am I on to something here? Maybe see you at Elex 2022?
Hey buddy! Hoping you can help me with a clamp meter. I dont know much but truly looking to learn! I want to purchase a clamp meter under 200 for AC AND DC current I'm looking for something SAFE/WELL PROTECTED and capable of reading AC AND DC current from .5 amps to 60 amps as accurately as possible through the clamp. Do you have 1,2 or 3 suggestions. I was looking at the Klein cl800 but someone told me it will not read AC AND DC current through the clamp down to half amp accurately..... THANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN PROVIDE ME
Hi Dave. I see from an earlier post and reply that the Klein doesn't facilitate earth leakage. I dont suppose you know of any that will do both earth leakage and max demand, which would be the perfect all rounder ?. Cheers. Chris. BtW, Awesome point of ref video, as always 👍👍
Thanks for reply Dave. I have 3 lined up to buy, so one last question, promise, does your kyoritsu kewtec measure milliamps covering around the 30mA RCD range. I've read the data sheet and it says 0 to 600A, but doesn't show the granularity ie milliamp. Cheers again. Chris.
i used to work in maintnance of biogas facility, all presure sensors had a range from 4 mA to 20 mA, and few vibration sensors were from 1 mA to 20 mA range. the first leakage meter is maybe desined with that in mind ??
Very interesting! Nobody else has come up with a good reason for such a tiny scale, so maybe that's it, after all, it must be for some specialist purpose!
Hiya, A recent subscriber to your great channel. A question please if I may? Recently bought a fluke 115 off ebay, can't get it to zero resistance. Changed the leads to new fluke branded ones and still won't zero. Do you know of any firm I can send it away to? Many thanks
Hello. Sorry to hear of your Fluke frustrations! I'm afraid I don't have any particular repairer that I can recommend from experience. It looks like Fluke themselves have a UK customer care centre available at service.uk@fluke.com or on 01603 256620, they may be able to take it in or recommend an authorised repair centre closer to your location, but I've never used them personally.
Thanks for reply Dave. I have 3 lined up to buy, so one last question, promise, does your kyoritsu kewtec measure milliamps covering around the 30mA RCD range. I've read the data sheet and it says 0 to 600A, but doesn't show the granularity ie milliamp. Cheers again. Chris.
I'm afraid it doesn't Chris. The only current option is a 600A full-scale range on that Kewtech model, so it won't do something more sensitive like earth leakage. For such, I use a separate meter, the TEK775 shown around the 6-minute mark.
Opted for the Klein CL800 in the end, should have it Monday all being well. I PDF't your clamp meters to death, and the video,and tbh, I think your summation was bang on. As your klein is unavailable i went CL800, decent ranges and none of that 2mA gubbins. Think I'll be having one of the Alphatek tek775 or Amecal's(same thing) as well if the klein is lacking 🙄. Good old fleabay. Cheers again Dave 👍
maybe mention the g0d dang price while going thrue your portfolio and history of clamps so the viewers can relate..its often interesting to sense what devices goes for in other regions and not least CN rebadged units, where we often see hilarious mockups.
Sadly not. It would be a great all-rounder if it did, but that's the one function it lacks. I'd be quite happy to lose the useless 2000uA range for one that could read up to 200mA or so! The TIS 580 also shown here will do earth leakage, but with a daft 20mA range. Other than that, my earth leakage clamp meters are the no-brand ones shown in the vid. They seem to be okay I guess, but there doesn't seem to be one single clamp meter that does everything, or not that I've seen, so I keep the Klein in the toolbox and a no-brand earth leakage clamp in the Fluke box with my multifunction tester. Let me know if you find something useful - especially if it is reasonably priced!
Hi David thanks for the reply I have just had a look at at the martindale cm 69 it seems to do everything the well known chap Dave ,Tony Cables partner has a video of it on UA-cam
Looks like the CM69 has a good range for earth leakage testing. It commands a high price tag, but then any branded earth leakage clamps seem to unfortunately!
Savski - don’t know if you knew this when you made this video, watched it again today after buying a megger clamp meter. You said on your CEM meter you took it out because it jumped around too much. Ive learnt the following... if it’s a stable reading then it’s appliance earth leakage like TVs washing machines, if it’s jumping around then it’s an actual cable fault..
Hi David, when I'm trying to resolve nuisance tripping I claim the incoming line and neutral on the RCD to measure the differential current between the two, I've found measuring just the main earth the reading can be lower due to parallel earth's like water pipes etc in appliances etc. What's your thoughts on this. Colin.
Hi Colin. It's an excellent point, current leakage isn't necessarily down the main earthing conductor. Measuring the differential between the line and neutral on the RCD input terminals can work if your meter supports the current range with enough granularity (as in many cases you'd be measuring a load current too which may be quite large in relation to the fault current you're trying to find, so smaller scale ranges may just show an OverLimit condition). If that makes sense? Can't say I've ever done it, but then I'm often not too bothered about how much current current is leaking to cause the trip, I'm generally looking for a smoking gun for that trip. In the past that's been things like an extension lead left out in the rain, water in exterior lights, a leaking kettle, etc. If it's not staring me in the face, then I usually start an IR test on each circuit downstream to see where I should be concentrating my efforts.
David Savery Electrical Services , All good valid points, I use this method where an rcd on a split load board protecting 5/6 mcb's, if they have many appliances with natural leakage of under 3ma each but total over 25ma all together causing nuisance tripping. Measuring the line and neutral at the rcd together on an earth leakage meter with only show the imbalance/ differential, this can also be done on the exiting meter tails for the whole installation. I'm new to your channel and playing catch up through the video, very good content, please keep up the good work. Colin
I'm a recent subscriber and really enjoying your excellent range of videos. You mention the tripping current of 30mA RCDs. BS7671 allows a device to trip anywhere from just above 50% (> 15mA) so the 20mA range may be useful if the RCD is very sensitive and operates at less than 20mA. You also mentioned one of your meters giving spurious results, but you haven't mentioned calibration? or do you use these for indication purposes only? I assume your multi-tester will be calibrated as you are recording results for certification purposes. Keep up the good work !
Thanks Dave. It was my Fluke MFT that was giving me some odd readings on resistance despite still being in calibration, so I took it out of service. These days only my Metrel is kept calibrated and is used for certification, while my MFT Pro is an everyday faultfinding aid. My Megger is kept aside for any trainees/work experience placements, etc. You're right about the tripping range of RCD's for additional protection, however when investigating a tripping fault, I want to know what sort of leakage current I'm dealing with, and this TIS clamp just shows 'OverLimit' most of the time. I already know it's over, I need a tester that tells me by how much! My Handyman clamp has a more sensible range of 200mA which is much more effective.
David: The HandyMan clamp is also made by CEM. Be aware of very poor shielding of the units, a 100A current OUTSIDE of the clamp will results in several mA(10,20,30+)
Yeah, I worry about these cheap and cheerful no-brand meters. I don't tend to use it any more as I have the clamp accessory for my TIS MFT Pro which is a more robust bit of kit!
Love the video banter and quality videos it’s great to see someone who know there stuff 👍
good subject. I use one for checking line currents on 3 phase motors on slow faults before I look elsewhere. also check the current in neutrals on 3ph supplies. clamp testers do confirm a lot and can put your mind to rest after selecting cable sizing/install. for industrial purposes both installations and machines invaluable.
Very well demonstrated its like being back at college and I did enjoy those days.
YOU THERE, THOMAS! ARE YOU CHEWING GUM? See me after class boy...
@@dsesuk sorry sir, but I was wondering if chewing gum was a good electrical insulator.
good subject. I use one for checking line currents on 3 phase motors on slow faults before I look elsewhere. also check the current in neutrals on 3ph supplies. clamp testers do confirm a lot and can put your mind to rest after selecting cable sizing/install.
The low current readings can be for flame rectification currents used on most boilers. I think clamp meters are favoured by a lot of HVAC guys in the States.
Good video, also thanks for the RMS overview
Hi David great video..
In the industry we use below 20ma reading to test a lot of the instrument
Good videos watching this one made me check my clamp meter as it’s the same as your TIS one, got mine a few years ago of the Niceic shop and there own branded.
My range 200ma, 2A ,150A
200mA is a handy range. Wish my TIS sported that option!
The 3 hand job sounds quite nice, never had one of those before.
fun fact. . . to visualize the true rms value of an AC voltage, look at a piece of A4 paper. This uses the same ratio.
If the long side is 1, then the short side is 0.707 (one over the square root of two).
So if you think of the short side as representing 240 volts, the long side can represent the actual input voltage.
Not very often you see sparky's going on about waveforms :-)
That is indeed a fun fact!
I'm no expert but apparently it's quite common for VFDs to have a current sensing input from 4 to 20 mA to control the motor speed, so perhaps this is one possible use for the 20 mA range. I believe the purpose of this control method is to allow the speed to be set by a PLC or microcontroller without worrying what voltage the control signals are, and without it having to generate a different voltage than whatever it is supplied with - it can just feed its supply voltage (whatever that may be) to the VFD, varying the current to adjust the motor speed.
4-20mA analog control is DC so cannot be picked up on that type meter.
I always love your work David I love my work as well I am a qualified electrician since 30 years ago
Sycophant
@@johnoreilly7052 stick to tarmacking drives instead of kissing ass
@@johnoreilly7052 what? Your not making any sense
@@johnoreilly7052 get with the program hombre! I do what I want
Jeez, HP54200A, cracking bit of kit, stopped using one of those 30 years ago, some sod nicked it!!!!
The beast just keeps on going! Sounds like an aeroplane taking off when you power it up mind!
Hello Dave, it is possible that the microamp feature is used for HVAC applications where you take a microamp measurement of a flame sensor for a furnace to determine if the sensor is working or not.
I agree though with your thoughts about how the manual illustrates using this microamp feature, it is rather strange. Considering that it is illustrating measuring in parallel, my guess would be that there is some sort of shunt within that portion of the clamp meters measuring circuit.
Ah, it could well be. I've no experience of HVAC work, so it's interesting to hear that this may be the function of this feature!
I bought the TIS... was ok for small stuff but had a problem with a big office block with total 49ma but the TIS with its dumb 20mA max couldn’t identify so went to the Megger which works exactly the way you want
Hi Dave, great videos! Thanks for taking the time away from your premium subscriptions to accommodate the productions! Wondered if earth leakage was more important than ever now given the cost of energy! Was trying to work out a cost value in excessive earth leakage. I.e. a standard 7-8mA leakage reading for a domestic household could be reduced to potentially 4-5mA by switching off leaky appliances etc. Earth clamp metres show the reading as an instantaneous reading (presumably) so applying power equations we’d need to convert to mAh… Any idea how to do this ? Thinking of offering a service to the vulnerable to calculate current earth leakage and how to reduce their wasted energy. Am I on to something here? Maybe see you at Elex 2022?
Thanks Dave
Hi my Kyoritsu 2046r , the same as yours,has a back light you have to manually turn it on may be different model In Australia?
Love the vids Sean
Thanks Sean. Mine is the 2040 so I guess yours has some extra whistles and bells! It's a good bit of kit though.
HI David, Great video, who sells this product or where did you purchase from?
Hi Michael. The Klein meter was from my local branch of City Electrical Factors.
Hey buddy! Hoping you can help me with a clamp meter. I dont know much but truly looking to learn! I want to purchase a clamp meter under 200 for AC AND DC current I'm looking for something SAFE/WELL PROTECTED and capable of reading AC AND DC current from .5 amps to 60 amps as accurately as possible through the clamp. Do you have 1,2 or 3 suggestions. I was looking at the Klein cl800 but someone told me it will not read AC AND DC current through the clamp down to half amp accurately..... THANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN PROVIDE ME
Hi Dave. I see from an earlier post and reply that the Klein doesn't facilitate earth leakage. I dont suppose you know of any that will do both earth leakage and max demand, which would be the perfect all rounder ?. Cheers. Chris. BtW, Awesome point of ref video, as always 👍👍
Hi Chris. I carry one of these no-brand ones in the Fluke case: amzn.to/3aQudtP - although I don't know if there's a time-out on the max function.
Thanks for reply Dave. I have 3 lined up to buy, so one last question, promise, does your kyoritsu kewtec measure milliamps covering around the 30mA RCD range. I've read the data sheet and it says 0 to 600A, but doesn't show the granularity ie milliamp. Cheers again. Chris.
i used to work in maintnance of biogas facility, all presure sensors had a range from 4 mA to 20 mA, and few vibration sensors were from 1 mA to 20 mA range. the first leakage meter is maybe desined with that in mind ??
Very interesting! Nobody else has come up with a good reason for such a tiny scale, so maybe that's it, after all, it must be for some specialist purpose!
I guess these sensors are DC? No use of this AC clamp then.
2mA scale for something like CAT5/6 cable with crosstalk from LV sources? Sorry, catching up on your old vids
My name is Kusaka of Kyoritsu Electrical instruments works, ltd.
Thank you for using our product.
How was the usability of the product?
It’s a kewtech
Love this sh it...!
Low milliamp setting could be used for thermocouple type or flame sensor probes on gas boilers...
👍
Hi David could you link where I can buy the clamp meter from I couldn't seem to locate it Online
I think they went end-of-line. In fact, I think that's why CEF let me have it cheap as they wanted it off their shelf! Shame, as it's a good model.
Hiya,
A recent subscriber to your great channel.
A question please if I may?
Recently bought a fluke 115 off ebay, can't get it to zero resistance. Changed the leads to new fluke branded ones and still won't zero.
Do you know of any firm I can send it away to?
Many thanks
Hello. Sorry to hear of your Fluke frustrations! I'm afraid I don't have any particular repairer that I can recommend from experience. It looks like Fluke themselves have a UK customer care centre available at service.uk@fluke.com or on 01603 256620, they may be able to take it in or recommend an authorised repair centre closer to your location, but I've never used them personally.
@@dsesuk many thanks for your reply Dave, I should have got a Megger meter!
Thanks for reply Dave. I have 3 lined up to buy, so one last question, promise, does your kyoritsu kewtec measure milliamps covering around the 30mA RCD range. I've read the data sheet and it says 0 to 600A, but doesn't show the granularity ie milliamp. Cheers again. Chris.
I'm afraid it doesn't Chris. The only current option is a 600A full-scale range on that Kewtech model, so it won't do something more sensitive like earth leakage. For such, I use a separate meter, the TEK775 shown around the 6-minute mark.
Your a gent. Cheers. Thanks for taking time to reply. 👍👍
@@chrissykes7223 A pleasure old chap. Let me know what you eventually plump for!
Opted for the Klein CL800 in the end, should have it Monday all being well. I PDF't your clamp meters to death, and the video,and tbh, I think your summation was bang on. As your klein is unavailable i went CL800, decent ranges and none of that 2mA gubbins. Think I'll be having one of the Alphatek tek775 or Amecal's(same thing) as well if the klein is lacking 🙄. Good old fleabay. Cheers again Dave 👍
Chris, did your Klein measure milliamperes for earth leakage?
You could try wearing a head light and so freeing up one hand
maybe mention the g0d dang price while going thrue your portfolio and history of clamps so the viewers can relate..its often interesting to sense what devices goes for in other regions and not least CN rebadged units, where we often see hilarious mockups.
Industrial instruments. 4-20mA full scale deflection on plc. 0-4 mA registers as a fault
Steve, Would you use it only on the incoming supply cable only to a low current device to measure milliamps? Such as a decoder?
Hi David does the klein read earth leakage I was looking for a reasonable priced clamp meter for this
Sadly not. It would be a great all-rounder if it did, but that's the one function it lacks. I'd be quite happy to lose the useless 2000uA range for one that could read up to 200mA or so! The TIS 580 also shown here will do earth leakage, but with a daft 20mA range. Other than that, my earth leakage clamp meters are the no-brand ones shown in the vid. They seem to be okay I guess, but there doesn't seem to be one single clamp meter that does everything, or not that I've seen, so I keep the Klein in the toolbox and a no-brand earth leakage clamp in the Fluke box with my multifunction tester. Let me know if you find something useful - especially if it is reasonably priced!
Hi David thanks for the reply I have just had a look at at the martindale cm 69 it seems to do everything the well known chap Dave ,Tony Cables partner has a video of it on UA-cam
Looks like the CM69 has a good range for earth leakage testing. It commands a high price tag, but then any branded earth leakage clamps seem to unfortunately!
@@britannic2000 CM69 has 60A range. Chauvin F65 goes to 100A, but only CAT III rated and also ~£300.
Savski - don’t know if you knew this when you made this video, watched it again today after buying a megger clamp meter. You said on your CEM meter you took it out because it jumped around too much. Ive learnt the following... if it’s a stable reading then it’s appliance earth leakage like TVs washing machines, if it’s jumping around then it’s an actual cable fault..
Very interesting, cheers Webboid! It's been sat in a drawer for ages, perhaps I should have another play with it?
@@dsesuk you could plug a load of stuff in to the sockets and see what leakage you get before and after like..
Hi David, when I'm trying to resolve nuisance tripping I claim the incoming line and neutral on the RCD to measure the differential current between the two, I've found measuring just the main earth the reading can be lower due to parallel earth's like water pipes etc in appliances etc. What's your thoughts on this. Colin.
Hi Colin. It's an excellent point, current leakage isn't necessarily down the main earthing conductor. Measuring the differential between the line and neutral on the RCD input terminals can work if your meter supports the current range with enough granularity (as in many cases you'd be measuring a load current too which may be quite large in relation to the fault current you're trying to find, so smaller scale ranges may just show an OverLimit condition). If that makes sense? Can't say I've ever done it, but then I'm often not too bothered about how much current current is leaking to cause the trip, I'm generally looking for a smoking gun for that trip. In the past that's been things like an extension lead left out in the rain, water in exterior lights, a leaking kettle, etc. If it's not staring me in the face, then I usually start an IR test on each circuit downstream to see where I should be concentrating my efforts.
David Savery Electrical Services , All good valid points, I use this method where an rcd on a split load board protecting 5/6 mcb's, if they have many appliances with natural leakage of under 3ma each but total over 25ma all together causing nuisance tripping. Measuring the line and neutral at the rcd together on an earth leakage meter with only show the imbalance/ differential, this can also be done on the exiting meter tails for the whole installation. I'm new to your channel and playing catch up through the video, very good content, please keep up the good work. Colin
I'm a recent subscriber and really enjoying your excellent range of videos. You mention the tripping current of 30mA RCDs. BS7671 allows a device to trip anywhere from just above 50% (> 15mA) so the 20mA range may be useful if the RCD is very sensitive and operates at less than 20mA. You also mentioned one of your meters giving spurious results, but you haven't mentioned calibration? or do you use these for indication purposes only? I assume your multi-tester will be calibrated as you are recording results for certification purposes. Keep up the good work !
Thanks Dave. It was my Fluke MFT that was giving me some odd readings on resistance despite still being in calibration, so I took it out of service. These days only my Metrel is kept calibrated and is used for certification, while my MFT Pro is an everyday faultfinding aid. My Megger is kept aside for any trainees/work experience placements, etc. You're right about the tripping range of RCD's for additional protection, however when investigating a tripping fault, I want to know what sort of leakage current I'm dealing with, and this TIS clamp just shows 'OverLimit' most of the time. I already know it's over, I need a tester that tells me by how much! My Handyman clamp has a more sensible range of 200mA which is much more effective.
some industrial solenoids work on low mili amps
In a hospital they use a 20ma RCD... I reckon nowadays it will be a 20ma RCBO...
I think the 20 mA is just the manufacturer cheaping out, being 2000 counts.
Klein tools are made in America and they use different tripping levels over there, that’s probably what the 20ma setting is for.
David: The HandyMan clamp is also made by CEM. Be aware of very poor shielding of the units, a 100A current OUTSIDE of the clamp will results in several mA(10,20,30+)
Yeah, I worry about these cheap and cheerful no-brand meters. I don't tend to use it any more as I have the clamp accessory for my TIS MFT Pro which is a more robust bit of kit!
Wish my wife would let me have a new tool Tuesday LOL
Clamp all 3 on and look at the numbers on each
Does the wife know just how many gadgets you own?